Okay, Rand Paul’s latest stunt been mentioned here already, but I can’t resist sharing Mr. Pierce’s response to the lesser Paul:
… On behalf of [Rachel Maddow], I offer myself as second, but not in a contest of crude firearms. No, my lad. We will be civilized. I will meet you in a place of your choosing and, since I will be representing the one challenged, I get choice of weapons, and we will duel with epees, my young buck. We can go to 15 touches, or to first blood. I care not. I say now, you are a cheat and an internet thief, and I proclaim it to the world. I accept challenge. I will hear from you within the week as to time and place or I will protest your cowardice to the ends of the kingdom. Now, young lackbeard, you know my mind. Dawn comes every day…
This, I would subscribe to cable and pay-per-view to witness. After refreshing vague memories from a college fencing class with a most instructive Wikipedia entry, my bet would be Rand gets caught attempting to rig the electrified tip, blames it on one of his assistants, and then shorts out his body cord when he gets a glimpse of his opponent and loses control of his bodily functions.
Redshirt
I demand satisfaction. *Glove Slap*
The Red Pen
A discussion among Freepers who have never talked to a girl.
cleek
@The Red Pen:
“This Thread Has Been Pulled”
Redshirt
@cleek: LOL. Someone said something non Jimbob approved. ZOT.
rikyrah
he is simply a clown. he’s a Senator, but he’s still a plagiarizing clown.
ranchandsyrup
@cleek: You can still click through to it on that page. LOL that they link to this page as well.
I have been having fun with the below on my FB feed:
Invent the automobile- check.
Invent the airplane- check.
Cure polio worldwide- check.
Invent the atomic bomb-check.
Save the free world- check.
Put first man on moon-check.
Invent the computer- check.
Decode our DNA- check.
Invent the Internet- check.
Build a website- fail.
Gretchen
Darn, it’s gone! What did it say?
Chris
@Redshirt:
Posted this yesterday, but it’s worth posting twice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjE2sxCQ_rU
nancy darling
@Gretchen: Here it is.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3087381/posts
lamh36
Brazil Acknowledges Spying on Diplomatic Targets
By SIMON ROMERO
ranchandsyrup
@lamh36: Shoot, Glennnnzilla knows how to pivot away from that. Ad-hominem away! Something our friend and FPer DPM learned all too well from his sensei Glenn.
Yatsuno
@lamh36: And…crickets. But then again Brazil doesn’t have much in the way of a libertarian movement. That seems to be a plague only affecting First World countries. Maybe if they get their wealth inequality under check, then they can get their own glibertairans.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
The best things to happen to Democrats are named Rand Paul and Ted Cruz. That either is taken seriously blows my mind. Paul and Cruz are going to pull the party further to the right and their supporters are so extreme that they will never make nice when Chris Christie is the eventual nominee. Especially Ted Cruz and the type of people who support him. They’re not the “plays well with others” type of folks. If you think the Hillary is 44 folks were a nasty group of disgruntled losers, wait until you see what happens when Ted Cruz is swatted down by the electorate. Hell hath no fury like a wacko bird scorned.
ranchandsyrup
In response to plagiarism allegations, Rand Paul is pulling down transcripts from his site.
elmo
@Gretchen:
No, it’s not gone, not disapproved, and not zotted. It’s just a duplicate. Follow the link in the “This thread has been pulled” page, and it’s to the other version of the thread, full of the liveliest expressions of male solicitude toward the fairer sex.
lamh36
Went to the urgent care clinic for my recurrent leg pain and this lil cough. I’m glad I went when I did cause the lobby was empty (the occupational clinic next door though was FULL). So I was in to see the RN and the NP in like 30 minutes flat.
First off, the cough, no fever, my ear were okay, my throat was a little red, but probably due to cough, and my lungs sounded clear. So diagnosis: upper respiratory infection, Rx: cough syrup and let cough run its course. I hope it does so by the time I leave for DFW Thursday!
Second and most important, the consistent recurring upper thigh pain, which after questioning I realized also involved lower back pain that radiated into the thigh. Diagnosis: Prob inflammation of the Sciatic nerve due to newly developed bowling skills (HA!). Rx: Steroid shot to the buttocks, and anti-inflammation med for about 5 days (give or take one, since I actually got some samples from RN too). The butt shot didn’t hurt going in, but it sure burned a little afterwards. I looked like a fool with a limping right leg and rubbing my but in family dollar…LOL
I didn’t feel like going to Walmart at Lunch rush hour, so I’ll put in my Rx tomorrow (my 37th B-day BTW) and just use the cough meds I have at home and the samples the RN gave me will last me til tmrw.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I wonder if Pierce’s choice of epithets is just because Rand is a professional political offspring, or if he sees the same juvenile/adolescent quality in Rand Son Of Ron that I do. Both things were true of Dubya, too. Neither on strikes me as completely adult.
Chris
@Yatsuno:
Is it even that much of a thing outside of the United States?
There’s a far right in Europe, but it’s not squealing “leave our Galtian Overlords alone! Leave them alooooone! Take the chains of regulation off of them and just trust that they won’t screw us over, or if they do that we deserve it!” like our teabaggers here are doing.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
@nancy darling:
Wow, after reading that thread it’s remarkable that they can’t figure out why women may prefer Democrats.
sparrow
@The Red Pen: Jayzus, there are commenters advocating a repeal of the 19th amendment, in a cesspool of butthurt over women not voting for their preferred candidate. How un-self-aware can you be?
EconWatcher
@Chris:
The far right in Europe is kind of, well, left. Certainly the National Front in France is lefty on economic issues. It balances that by drumming up as much hate as it can for immigrants.
But “right” and “left” just don’t seem to mean the same thing in Europe as here.
rollSound
@sparrow:
The (rightwing) reason to allow women to vote is to make sure that married mens’ vote counts twice.
Thomas
Not sure how much standing we have to ding Paul about his Wikipedia adventures when the sitting vice-president was a flagrant (and unrepentant) plaigarist.
Belafon
@Thomas: And Democrats once supported slavery, so we can’t talk about that either.
elmo
@Thomas:
If we were the sitting Vice-President, I’d agree with you. Since I’m not, I am free to flay the little pipsqueak as much as I like.
Thomas
@Belafon: The fact that you find that a cogent response is revealing.
EconWatcher
@Thomas:
The accusation against Biden that I remember was really weak tea, wildly overblown. He basically borrowed Neil Kinnock’s emphasis that he and his wife were the first people in their families to go to college, including some of the wording.
But it always struck me as a stretch to call that plagiarism. I mean, would you really expect attribution in that situation? It’s more like recognizing a good point and running with it, because it fits you too. Is there something else, or was that the incident that makes him a flagrant and unrepentant plagiarist?
David in NY
Anyone notice Charlie Pierce’s link to his 11th place finish in a Boston Fencing Club Seniors event last January? Next-to-best unrated fencer. Who’d have guessed?
shelly
@The Red Pen:
Love the first line of that post. “With just one more day to go in the campaign, there is one group of voters that Republican Ken Cuccinelli needs to win over to become the next governor of Virginia: Female voters.”
Well, considering that the election’s tomorrow he better get a move-on.
And yeah, the ensuing comments are priceless. Attitudes that would be right at home around 1900, when women were pushing for the franchise. ‘You can’t trust women with the vote….they just act on their feeeeelings.”
ranchandsyrup
@Thomas: Tu quoque fail.
Mnemosyne
@Thomas:
You mean when, in a single speech, Biden didn’t attribute a quote that he had correctly attributed in multiple speeches before that one?
Yes, that’s exactly like taking huge chunks of information from Wikipedia and passing it off as your own.
Jacks mom
My sis had a steroid shot in her lower back for the same reason. Be very aware of how you feel for the next day or two. Most of those steroids come from compound pharmacies and they aren’t well regulate. My sister got a real bad staph infection and it took a lot of time & money to get rid of it.
Don’t mean to be Debbie downer. Just would hate for you to feel worse while trying to feel better.
Yatsuno
@Chris: If you look really hard in Japan you’ll find a few. I think there’s a small colony of them in Australia as well. But Ayn chose the right country to expound her ideas because of the uniqueness of our civil liberties laws coupled with a history of socialism that was quite different from the European experience. So yeah, coupled with coddling from Birchers glibertarianism caught like a bad virus. It’s sadder that the infection is spreading.
Belafon
@Thomas: Well, considering how silly the “Someone on our side may have done it, once, so we’d better not point out what they are doing” argument is, I thought you might need something less subtle than usual.
lamh36
@Jacks mom: Thanks for the heads up. I keep on the lookout for those types of problem
Thomas
@Mnemosyne: Or do I mean how he actually fabricated parts of his family’s life to match Kinnocks? Or do I mean how he had also plaigarized RFK, JFK, and Hubert Humphrey?
I’m sure they were all convenient misattributions.
Yatsuno
@Mnemosyne: BOTH SIDES DAMMIT!! You’re just being an unserious partisan if you can’t see this.
Chris
@EconWatcher:
I think our system’s the oddity there.
Though I have to wonder if it’ll dawn on the UMP and other “center right” parties to do what Reagan did and use the nonwhite-people-hate as a lever to get the FN and all the rest to be friendlier to neoliberalism (in a “you all get fucked, but they get fucked worse” kind of way).
And also whether the FN and the rest would go for that.
currants
OMG that would be EPIC EPEES!
LOVE CP.
Botsplainer
@The Red Pen:
Goddammit, pulled already. As a former FReak, I find that typical.
Mnemosyne
@Thomas:
Links. Jonah Goldberg doesn’t count.
Hungry Joe
I don’t believe that Rand Paul plagiarized. At all. Seriously. His ghostwriter(s) did, and Paul signed the book contract. Maybe he skimmed the manuscript, maybe he didn’t. He’s ultimately responsible, of course, and you could argue (and win the argument) that he’s technically guilty, but I’m unable to imagine Rand Paul sitting at a computer writing a book, even if you allow that he copy & pasted material published elsewhere. I mean, really. As if.
David in NY
@Thomas: Right. Well, without further research, give me a guy who plagiarizes Kinnock, the Kennedy’s, and Humphrey any time over a guy who plagiarizes fucking Wikipedia!!!! I mean, Paul doesn’t have a brain in his head. And some of his lies are significant — like claiming he was a board certified ophthalmologist when he wasn’t.
Yatsuno
@Thomas: Misdirection. You’re not very good at it.
Mnemosyne
@Jacks mom:
It depends on the state. California is pretty strict with compounding pharmacies — the company my husband works for is classified as one since they mix bags of nutrition etc. for patients. Massachusetts, not so much, as some unfortunate patients nationwide found out.
Ripley
All evidence would suggest that he can’t count.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
Rand Paul and Grand Paul prolly practice dueling and seconding with each other.
Stop putting my comments in the wrong thread, douchebags. There was a time on this blog when that was a fighting offense.
Chyron HR
@Thomas:
Jeepers, Tommy, remember when your party’s standard bearer was Sarah Palin, and every time she said something to completely humiliate the GOP, your only response was “BUH BUH BUT BIDEN MADE A GAFFE”?
The way I see it, you only get to claim Biden as the (alleged) Democratic equivalent of one of your embarrassments, and you’ve already played that card. Find someone else.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@shelly:
Maybe Cuccinelli could set up stations in front of the polling places and offer free vaginal probes?
Ed Drone
“…my bet would be Rand gets caught attempting to rig the electrified tip,”
Electrified tip? What kind of namby-pamby combat is that? We want sharpened swords and 18th Century medical aid for the event.
“He provided swords for the interested parties —
A blunted sword for Hamlet and a sharp one for Laertes.”
And the pay-per-view fees would lower the deficit at least a half point.
lamh36
OMG! Two of my fav brothers together in one room. I hope Pete Souza has his camera ready!!!!!
‘Mandela’ to screen for President Obama at White House
Yatsuno
@lamh36: FWIW I’ve had several steroid injections for pain and did just fine. Then again I live in WA, we regulate all kinds of medical shit up the yin yang here.
lamh36
Jay Carney Mimics and Sneers at ABC News’ Jon Karl During Daily Briefing
AxelFoley
Say, Cole, your boy Greenwald has been very quiet about this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/05/world/americas/brazil-acknowledges-spying-on-diplomats-from-us.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0
Hungry Joe
@David in NY: Now, wait just a minute — Rand Paul is too a board-certified ophthalmologist. He is. It’s his own personal board, but still. Play fair. Play hard but play fair.
AxelFoley
@lamh36:
Oops, I see lamh beat me to it.
celticdragonchick
Screw epee’s. I am willing to accept Aqua Buddhas little challenge.. I choose a basket hilt claymore.
David in NY
Heh. TNR website won’t run an ad from the NRCC bashing Sean Eldridge (married to Chris Hughes) who’s seeking to unseat Chris Gibson(R) in NY-19. http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/the-new-republic-won-t-run-nrcc-anti-eldridge-ad
Only odd thing is, if there’s a dozen people in that district that read TNR, I’d be stunned. Should’a taken the NRCC money and run, if they’d really want to hurt them.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@AxelFoley: All of us aren’t Obots here so we don’t automatically understand Obottian Logic. Explain how he is being quiet about it and what you feel like he should be saying / doing. Contrast this with statements he has made in the past about spying by Brazil.
Citizen_X
@lamh36:
Wow. That, ladies and gentlemen, is some fine swordplay.
Have Jay Carney just stand there and insult Mini-Paul. He’d end up in tears in five minutes.
chrome agnomen
@The Red Pen:
i read every single comment on that thread with the utmost delight. i’d be willing to bet that half of those guys hands are filing for divorce.
Ash Can
@AxelFoley: According to a tweet from him posted by a commenter at LGF, his reaction was to sneer at “Dem NSA defenders – who scream ‘false equivalency!!’ every 4 1/2 seconds – now citing *this (read it) to justify NSA.” No, I don’t know WTF he’s talking about either.
chrome agnomen
@cleek:
there’s still a link there. i just read through the whole thing. you can’t make it up!
AxelFoley
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:
No, you’re just an asswipe, like Cole and Corner Stone. What he should be doing is being marched into a courtroom for aiding and abetting a fugitive.
David in NY
@Hungry Joe: OK, but there was this little slip when he claimed that he was certified both by his own board and by the American Board of Ophthalmology, sort of odd, since he also claimed that not taking the recertification tests required by the ABO was a matter of priciple, which he later seemed to have forgotten. http://www.salon.com/2010/06/14/rand_2/
David in NY
@chrome agnomen: Them filing for divorce? Their poor wives, more likely.
LanceThruster
Inigo Montoya: Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.
Soonergrunt
@celticdragonchick: Damn straight. If you MUST duel, go with the one-hit wonder. There’s a reason we named a particularly nasty device after it.
srv
It appears Atlas Shrugged in portuguese is not in print. Why isn’t GG in the favelas spreading the good word?
Seanly
@nancy darling:
Another link that reinforces to NGOTB (never get out of the boat).
Omnes Omnibus
@celticdragonchick: @Soonergrunt: Spada da lato.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
So far, I’m loving that at least two of the countries that local troll Steve Crickmore claimed were totally innocent of spying (Sweden and Brazil) now turn out to be just as guilty as everyone else.
Though I’m sure some of the crazier trolls will be along any minute to instruct us about how all of this is the NSA’s fault because we control Sweden and Brazil, possibly through our inferior tinfoil production.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ash Can: But I thought St Greenwald was the Crusader against Secrecy, which is inherently evil?
Am I supposed to be outraged that we spy on Israel?
ETA ANybody got EvenTheLIberalMSNBC on? The New Jersey Pufferfish has him a Flufferfish from the Asbury Park (I think) paper, named Ingle. People lover governor Overbearing Misogynist Bully!
raven
Where’s Zig Zag Zell?
raven
Where’s Zig Zag Zell?
aimai
@The Red Pen: Damn! I wasn’t quick enough.
Anna in PDX
@lamh36: “Spying on diplomatic targets” is a really dog-bites-man story in general. Tapping a head of state’s phone and some of the other more egregious things the US is accused of doing is not the same as “spying on diplomatic targets” really.
There is not and will never be a country that has no intelligence agents trying to figure out what is going on in other countries’ diplomatic missions because that is one of the core jobs of intel people. I may not be a total expert on the NSA, but I worked in the US foreign service for a few years and this is not a controversial idea at all.
So, I do not understand the point of Brazil making this very silly and tautological statement. They may as well issue a statement just saying “we would like to admit we have intelligence agencies” because that is about all it means.
Ash Can
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: No, he’s the crusader against the United States, which is inherently evil. It’s OK if other countries do it, because, well, they’re other countries. Except maybe for Britain, which is a little too cozy with the Great Satan for comfort.
Jebediah, RBG
@The Red Pen:
From that thread, I learned that libertarians are actually liberal Democrats. Surprising, but its in a Freep thread so it must be true.
Jamey
Paultard the Lesser will elect Paul Ryan, Lord P90X as his second. Pierce will be routed.
aimai
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader: Now you’ve done it! What if he reads Balloon Juice?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jamey: Nah, I’m sure Rand Paul’s second will be This Guy, wish I could post the picture here.
Hungry Joe
@David in NY: Well, now you’re doing stuff like providing evidence. Knock it off. This is Rand Paul we’re dealing with here; facts are “facts” and board certification is “board certification.”
lamh36
Lord White folk…ya’ll gotta do better…seriously…SMDH!! Dressing your child up as a KKKlansman for Halloween…GTFOHWTS!!!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/11/04/a-kkk-razy-halloween-costume/
David in NY
Are the anti-Greenwaldians and the Times not engaging in a little false equivalence themselves? I mean, read the Times article:
A buncha gumshoes shadowing foreign diplomats is not exactly the same thing as the NSA, now, is it?
Mnemosyne
@Anna in PDX:
Because a couple of weeks ago, Brazil was running around denouncing the US for its no good, very bad monitoring of Brazilian diplomatic targets and Brazilian business interests. Now — oops! — turns out Brazil was doing the same thing to the US and other targets that the US was doing to them. So that’s why they have to have to shuffle their feet like a five-year-old with his hand in the cookie jar and admit that they have cookie crumbs on their chins along with everyone else.
David in NY
@lamh36: Well, if you put it that way, and it was in Kentucky, too … (I looked at the link because I’d really forgotten the full story, was all.)
Omnes Omnibus
@lamh36:
Some people are irredeemably idiotic.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
Jaysus, why not put the son in a Nazi uniform, put his sister in a concentration camp outfit, and go on out for a fun evening of trick-or-treating?
I’m guessing that even in Kentucky that kid came home with a lot less candy than he expected.
David in NY
@Mnemosyne:
The exact same thing, I suppose. I don’t think the Times article even claims that. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11…..&_r=0
Mnemosyne
@David in NY:
So you’re on the side that says the US should not be allowed to spy on other countries? It’s not just domestic surveillance of US citizens that has to stop, it’s all surveillance of every country?
Omnes Omnibus
@David in NY: Bad link. Was it the same story lamh36 linked to above? If not, could you please relink.
Yatsuno
@Omnes Omnibus: People iz indeed dumb. It’s inescapable. But hey it keeps us both employed.
srv
Stephen Walt @ (paywall) FP asks:
Clearly, the NSA, CIA and State Department don’t play well together, because everybody should be our biotch, but they’re not. Just another failure by Big Obama Government rammed down our throats.
Anoniminous
Is it too soon to start obsessing about the Virginia election turnout and results?
Berial
Can any of you actually understand anything coming out of the ‘conservative’ comments about the Wall Street Journal’s balanced op-ed “Obama killed my lifesaving insurance and is personally responsible for killing me!”?
Because I do NOT recognize the world these people seem to think existed BEFORE the ACA.
gogol's wife
I can’t get enough of this duelling story. Rachel Maddow should show up with a hatful of cherries, and eat them slowly as Rand takes aim (I’m assuming it’s going to be pistols from Lepage). (h/t Pushkin, “The Shot”)
I just caught up with this article on Christie linked by somebody down below. This passage really struck me about Romney. Boy, did we dodge a bullet: “Punctuality mattered to Romney. Christie’s lateness bugged him. Mitt also cared about fitness and was prone to poke fun at those who didn’t. (‘Oh, there’s your date for tonight,’ he would say to male members of his traveling crew when they spied a chunky lady on the street.)”
EconWatcher
@srv:
The NSA is a good illustraiton of what happens when you shovel too much money at an agency in a compressed time period with a vague mandate like “monitor bad guys.” Morons get hired, stupid sh#t gets done, and oversight is abandoned. I doubt very much there is any consideration anywhere of the costs and benefits of eavesdropping on Merkel’s phone.
It’s like the DEA in the 80s and 90s. They got money shoveled their way in the “war on drugs,” and they did a lot of nutty and oppressive stuff. But the victims were mostly poor and of the wrong hue, so it never got the attention this does.
Mandalay
@EconWatcher:
But Biden wasn’t merely stealing Kinncok’s lines. The real problem was that the claims Biden made in those stolen lines did not apply to him. Biden lied. (“Why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go a university?” – bullshit. “My ancestors who worked in the coal mines of northeast Pennsylvania” – bullshit.).
And that was hardly the first time Biden got caught in plagiarism or self-serving lies. Joe Biden wasn’t born with that long pointy nose. He earned it.
Ash Can
@David in NY: The article also goes on to describe a current Abin that sounds very much like the NSA, right down to the expressed opinion that the leakers of this information should be brought to justice. Your implication that Brazilian spy activity is limited to “a buncha gumshoes shadowing foreign diplomats” is the false equivalence here, not the apples-to-apples comparison of Abin and the NSA.
@lamh36: Especially in light of the mother’s remarks about the KKK, that’s every possible kind of fucked up.
Chris T.
@Hungry Joe: Indeed, Son of Paul is like the kid in school who pays the Smart Kids to do his homework for him.
Kyle
Officals Deny “UN Takeover” of the Alamo
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/Officials-bash-rumors-that-Alamo-other-missions-4939918.php
In this vein, George Rodriguez “may” have had sexual congress with goats. If you own such livestock, they “might” be in danger of molestation.
RareSanity
Screw that…
I choose handlebar mustaches and a good ole fashioned, early 1900’s style shirtless, bare knuckle brawl. He’s gonna need all of that ophthalmological training after both of his eyes get dotted.
? Martin
@Berial:
Sure you do. It was called ‘fuck you, I got mine’.
sm*t cl*de
In response to plagiarism allegations, Rand Paul is pulling down transcripts from his site.
Damn. That man is on the ball. The Interducts have no long-term memory for old content, so he has covered his tracks completely.
Ash Can
@David in NY: The fact remains, though, that all this nonsense is detracting from the real discussion we should be having, which is whether the USA Freedom Act will pass, and whether it does enough to provide sufficient oversight of the NSA.
Mike G
@gogol’s wife:
I guess we can be grateful Rmoney’s posse didn’t tackle her to the ground and forcibly cut her hair.
aimai
@lamh36: Argh. I feel for you. This sounds horrible. Sciatica is awful.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@RareSanity: You just want to see Rachel Maddow shirtless.
aimai
@Mike G: Or put her on a diet.
Actually, what struck me most about that story is that of course Romney is “ranking” and putting down particular members of his team and using her and fat shaming to do it. The remark is aimed at his own staff who are being told “you aren’t good enough” to date a prettier/thinner girl. Its a very, very, very, highschool form of agression. And although it is being done by a guy, and a guy who thinks of himself as a guy’s guy, its straight up mean girl relational agression.
Berial
@? Martin: That may be the world they live in but I don’t see how they can complain about that guys situation with regard to the ACA. Today that guys story is a affront and the president should be impeached because of it.
Before the ACA that same situation was just ‘Monday’.
RareSanity
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
Although I respect her as a human being, if it happened (on purpose, by her own choice), I can’t honestly say that I would look away… :-)
Chris
@srv:
There, I’m interested. Very.
Legally speaking I can’t say I give a shit if we spied on foreign governments, allied or otherwise, or understand WTF it’s supposed to prove about us “turning into a police state” (any more than I understood the people who followed Rand Paul’s leap of logic from “drones are being used to kill people in war zones” to “therefore, they might be used to assassinate people in the streets of American cities!”)
Practically speaking, though, I have zero problem with the “what are we getting out of this?” discussion. I can think of all kinds of pragmatic reasons why it might not be worth it to spy on the French or the Germans. Does the value of the information we get about these governments outweigh the political fallout when such activities are exposed? Does even the NSA really have enough resources to keep an eye on our allies in Western Europe and still perform its duties in areas of much more urgent interest to national security, like the entire Middle East? Etc.
Soonergrunt
@David in NY: Actually, it pretty much is. It’s all about capabilities. They would do what we do if they could do what we do.
ranchandsyrup
@Soonergrunt: We should reduce our capabilities down to the pack–but ‘Murica is exceptional. *head explodes*
celticdragonchick
@Soonergrunt:
Yep.
I also happen to own one…an actual combat ready basket hilt with a tempered high carbon stainless blade. This will be my close combat weapon of choice when the zombie apocalypse arrives ;)
Cacti
@Anna in PDX:
You see, it’s different when Brazil spies, because of reasons.
Dilma should get back to her main job.
Sweeping the poors off the streets to make Rio prettier for the World Cup turistas.
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@AxelFoley: Oh, Douchebag. So you didn’t really have a point other than typical Obottian taunting?
Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader
@aimai:
They don’t call him “Cooch” for nothing.
Cacti
@Mnemosyne:
The 28th Amendment forbids intelligence gathering on foreign states or foreign nationals.
George W. Bush was constitutionally obliged to ignore that “bin Laden determined to strike in U.S” PDB he received in August 2001.
It’s just not sporting to know about things like that.
Cacti
@Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:
He should be banned for disagreeing with you.
Mnemosyne
@Chris:
Frankly, the thing that bothered me the most about the bugging Angela Merkel’s personal cell phone was that the freakin’ idiots did it because they were convinced she was a Communist plant because she started her political career in East Germany. They were still seeing Communists under the bed in goddamned 2005.
That’s way more kinds of fucked up than the mere fact of the bugging.
Anna in PDX
@Cacti: Sorry, what are you responding to?
If Brazil said that the US should not spy on diplomatic missions, full stop, then that was a stupid thing for Brazil to say. If Brazil was criticizing other sorts of spying, then that is a different issue. If it was lumping the more egregious spying with the idea of spying in general, then it was a sloppy thing to say, as well as stupid.
Of course all countries monitor each other’s diplomatic activity. Not necessarily through bugging the embassies but there are many other ways to do that.
I don’t even think this is much of a gotcha.
Cacti
@David in NY:
Funny to watch the flying monkey brigade try hand wave Brazil’s hypocrisy away.
Brazil spying doesn’t count because it’s less sophisticated!
David Miranda’s 4th amendment right mule stolen materials through Heathrow was violated!
MomSense
@lamh36:
In case I don’t see you tomorrow, happy birthday!! Please be gentle with yourself–so you can heal! Shoot, if I were closer I would give you some stretches and exercises to deal with sciatica.
srv
@Chris: It’s one thing to read Merkel’s mail, it’s another to 24×7 snort the entire intertubes.
I imagine the cost difference is ~$25B/year. And GG didn’t even get a t-shirt.
Cacti
@Anna in PDX:
Different in what way?
“Waaah, they have more sophisticated operations than us” sounds like an awful lot of sour grapes.
ETA: We also have satellites, should we lose those too if they hurt Brazil’s feelings?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Honest to god? I hadn’t heard that.
lamh36
@MomSense: Thank u in advance. My goal is to do not much until Thursday then I’m off to DE for the wknd to see my old friends
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
That, I hadn’t heard. And it’s really fucked up.
Though I suppose it’s not so different from the U.S. being attacked by a stateless, Salafist, jihadi organization and reacting by declaring that our biggest threats were Iraq, Iran and North Korea. The MIC appears to be chock-full of people fixated on fighting the enemies they want rather than the ones they actually get.
@srv:
Probably, which goes back to the resources thing. Is it worth it? Etc.
MomSense
@lamh36:
Rest so you can have fun with your friends!
David in NY
@Mnemosyne: Where did I say that? I just think the NSA lies so much we don’t know what they’re doing or whether they should be or whether there’s a good reason for it or whether its benefits outweigh its costs (to our foreign relations and to our constitutional form of government).
@Omnes Omnibus: Sorry about the link — same one.
@Ash Can: That was the Times’ comparison.
@Ash Can: That I can totally agree with.
MomSense
@lamh36:
Hubba hubba. There was a picture circulating about a year ago of the Pres meeting IE in the oval office. Too much. I’m surprised it didn’t break the internet it was so good.
SiubhanDuinne
@Mike G:
This is the milk-carton, dictionary, poster-child definition of “passive-aggressive.”
Or, what @aimai said.
Or, what @aimai:
Omnes Omnibus
@SiubhanDuinne: Actually, it’s just being an asshole.
Mandalay
I hate asking posters here to donate, but could one of the FPers possibly set up a collection fund for Eric? He is suffering from a devastating loss of potential income.
Thanks in advance for your generosity. Thoughts and prayers are welcome too, but cash is better. I know Eric will he encouraged when he learns how much you care about him during this difficult period.
SFAW
So, not to wake him from his slumber or anything, but it’s been something like 4 hours since Thomas a/k/a Tommy a/k/a Bullshit Central was asked to back up his “Buh-buh-but Joe Biden plagiarized everyone all the time” comic relief routine, and I can’t say as I’ve seen any links, cites, incriminating photos, or whatever.
THIS JUST IN, MUST CREDIT DIRGE!: I have it on good authority that Thomas is about to release all the pertinent info. Or actually, his agent, one “Chief Editor Korir,” will release the info. Any day now. And it will change the political landscape in a way not seen since Jim Carlson began his historic run for the Presidency.
Better trolls, please.
On second thought, fuck that shit: No Trolls, please
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Mandalay:
Google: You can’t pry into our customers’ privacy like that! Only we can pry into our customers’ privacy like that!
CONGRATULATIONS!
I fenced in high school. It was the most brutal cardio I’ve ever done; I doubt I could go a single round these days without falling over. And it’s hard; not easy to be good at it and the guys that are can nail you before you think through your first thrust.
I’d like to see Paul and Pierce go old school. No masks, no chest protector. Used to be a mark of honor in decent society, having a few good deep facial scars.