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You are here: Home / Foreign Affairs / Monday Evening Open Thread: Jaw-Jaw

Monday Evening Open Thread: Jaw-Jaw

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Fortunately for the nervous among us, NYMag‘s Dan Amira did a roundup of “What Everyone Is Saying About the Iranian Nuclear Deal“, and Bill “Always Wrong” Kristol hates the heck out of it, ergo it can’t be that bad. (Ari Fleischer, Dubya’s former mouthpiece, tries to out-ugly Ralph Reed’s late-night outburst; somebody’s looking for some negotiable affection from the Wingnut Wurlitzer.)

Me, I think Friedman’s just hoping for royalties on that useful measurement, the Friedman Unit — “Six months, to be followed by another six months, to be followed by yet another six months, indefinitely.”
***********
Apart from playing Risk with life-size markers, what’s on the agenda for the evening?

Reader Interactions

56Comments

  1. 1.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    The war on peace.

    They can always suit up for that one.

    Cruelly subjecting Bill Kristol and company to the horrors of peace once again.

  3. 3.

    Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader

    What kind of solution exactly are Americas Israel-Firsters looking for?

  5. 5.

    David Koch

    Jennifer Rubin has been calling Friedman (of all people) an Israeli hater (no, really).

    The wingnuts are just a bottomless pit of comedy.

  10. 10.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Comrade Jake: I don’t understand, it looks normal to me.

    /1995

    I think the last Web site I built looked just like that. In the 90s.

    Completely right also. My pet peeve is give me some freaking white space to click, sheesh.

    On a related note, I stopped by Slate the other day after a long time and was pleased to see that they’ve now made it so totally unusable that I don’t even have to wonder if I should try to read it once in a while. It’s hilarious.

  12. 12.

    Comrade Jake

    @Bill E Pilgrim: the only time I visit Slate these days is when someone in my twitter feed links to one of their pieces. The mobile site seems to load OK – I bet it’s better than their standard one at this stage.

  13. 13.

    raven

    Had a decent afternoon in the surf after a lousy morning fishing off the bay bridge. The dolphins were sounding all over an I think they drove the fishies away. When I hit the surf it was much choppier than yesterday and I nailed a nice bluefish and a big ass pompano. By the time I got back to the house I was too worn out to cook so we went out! Big rain front coming in soon but I can probably fish in the rain.

  16. 16.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    @Comrade Jake: It seems to be an everything-on-the known-Internet-on-one-scrolling page approach, with at least a dozen different presentation formats, I kid you not, five or six of which scroll by in just the first few turns of the wheel.

    Let’s see, shall I read one of the seventeen stories in the numbered “Most Read” or “Most Shared” columns, go for something in the three different kinds of graphic formats at the top, or select from one of the other thirteen hundred articles presented in the style of what looks like a collection of several dozen graphically-unrelated magazines, farther down. Or, you know, just kill myself.

  18. 18.

    geg6

    Made the cornbread for the stuffing today. Also got the cranberry sauce made. Tomorrow, I’m cutting up all the bread and drying it out as the second stuffing step. My stuffing has cornbread, Italian bread and ciabatta. I’ll also get the yams baked for the mashed yam and pecan casserole and get it assembled, ready to pop in the oven to bake on Thursday. Wednesday I’ll put the bird in the brine (apple juice, orange sections and zest ribbons, salt, rosemary, brown sugar, garlic, bay leaves and tricolor peppercorns. I’ll also make my super rich mashed potatoes (butter, cream cheese, half & half and heavy cream–heart attack city), which can be made a day ahead and baked like a casserole. With all of this done ahead of time, I will only have to roast the turkey, roast the carrots, make the broccoli and wild rice dish (though I’m wondering if I can make this ahead, too), the giblet gravy and the bacon, green beans and tomatoes sautee. All diets go out the window for that day around here. I like having so much done ahead of time.

    Somewhere I have to find time to get my house cleaned in between.

  19. 19.

    Mnemosyne

    I may be saved from having to eat my sister-in-law’s cooking on Thanksgiving — my brother called and said that his ex-wife wants to have the kids for Thanksgiving this year since it’s also the first night of Hanukkah, so I suggested that we all go out to eat somewhere rather than have my SIL make a whole Thanksgiving dinner for four people. So we’ll see, but I may have been saved.

  21. 21.

    Yatsuno

    @geg6: Have you ever done mascarpone instead of the cream cheese? Doesn’t quite have the zip but oh baby is that rich delicious stuff. Also: like cornbread stuffing, like breadcube stuffing, but never been crazy about mixing the two. You’re welcome to convince me of the error of my ways however. :)

  22. 22.

    Karen in GA

    Practicing my banjo. The lesson on Saturday went really well — I learned a lot and played better than I expected, and my teacher was throwing stuff at me that he doesn’t usually give beginning students. Lots to practice.

    Spending Turkey Day at the in-laws’ house. Trying to figure out how to call my mother on Thanksgiving without having to talk to either of my sisters or their screwed up families. Fun!

  23. 23.

    geg6

    @Yatsuno:

    I’m telling you, mixing it up is delish. I make the standard stuffing with onions, celery, sage, thyme, rosemary, parsley, stock, a little bacon and a tiny bit of turmeric to make it turn a little gold. My family inhales it. My 12 yo niece called me the other day to specifically request my brined turkey and my stuffing.

  25. 25.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Just Some Fuckhead, Thought Leader:
    Genocide. I know some of them. They basically want a holy war where the Arabs/Muslims (the same thing in their mind) are wiped out. No civilians will be killed, because there are no civilian Arabs in their mind, just evil brown hordes.

    This is distinct from the neocons like Cheney, who want to punch everybody who looks at America funny until they all realize that we are awesome and kind and they want to be our best friend.

  26. 26.

    Chris

    @? Martin:

    If the western nations ever stop seeing Israel as a victim of Iran and the Palestinians, then tolerance for their ongoing expansion will dry up fast.

    Every Western nation other than the United States stopped buying that fantasy long ago.

  27. 27.

    Chris

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    I remember a conversation in undergrad with my Christian fundamentalist roommate who was bitching that people criticized his religion for the massacre of the Amalekites in the Bible, because “people think it’s genocide.” Me: “Okay. What’s the real explanation?” Him: “God told them to do it!” … so it’s okay. Not a trace of irony. Later read a justification from some other author who said they were “far from innocent,” so depraved that we were probably doing them all a favor by killing them.

    I never looked at a Bible thumper the same way twice again, and it comes to my mind every time I hear them discussing Israel/Palestine.

  28. 28.

    BruceFromOhio

    Found my missing glove, thank you housekeeping peoples!

    Trying to get this Dell D620 to behave running Win7, whilst doing busy work for the employer on another machine.

    Drinking and watching SF-WSH hand-egg, wishing I could go fishing in the rain.

    ETA: … and despising auto-run videos that defy ad blocker.

  30. 30.

    Linnaeus

    what’s on the agenda for the evening?

    Messing around with my new tablet, reading some stuff I should have read years ago, and some inexpensive Chardonnay.

  31. 31.

    raven

    @BruceFromOhio: When my dad was at his WWII destroyer group reunion I sent him a telegram telling him how proud I was of him. The next time I saw him he said “don’t EVER do that shit again”. For him a telegram always meant someone died.

  32. 32.

    Mike E

    I’m thinking about my trip up to PA tomorrow/Wednesday, and wondering if I’ll be able to thread the needle of weather that’s a-comin’.

  33. 33.

    fuckwit

    Wow. I just went to MediCal’s website, dhcs.ca.gov, and it says I don’t qualify. Fuck.

    However, the coveredca.com shows several anthem and kaiser plans that are essentially $0/month at my income level. But they are $40% coinsurance, with near-bankruptcy-level deductibles for me ($4500), though they seem to be $0 copay.

    Interestingly, Health Sherpa (thanks to the commeenter who pointed me to it) shows some other plans that are NOT on coveredca, and have much lower deductibles, also $0/mo with copay. Hmm, why different data there?

  34. 34.

    Mike E

    @raven: Heh, my mom sent Nixon one of those, about the Cambodian incursion. It was something like “Don’t do it, it’ll open Pandora’s Box”. She really did.

    ETA @fuckwit: you’re welcome!

  36. 36.

    geg6

    @Mike E:

    Depends on where you’re going in PA. We’re supposed to get it here in Western PA starting tomorrow afternoon and well into Wednesday evening. Freezing rain and then snow toward the WV/OH border and then just snow the further north you get. Here in Beaver County, we’ll be right on that line between the mix and just snow. We’ve got everything we need except the wine and we’re hosting, so we’re in good shape. We can just clean and cook and it should all be over by late Wednesday or early Thursday. I’d estimate it hitting the eastern part of the state about eight hours later, so maybe Wednesday morning.

  37. 37.

    Mike E

    @geg6: I’ll be near The Office, and the change-over to the shitty stuff isn’t supposed to happen until Wed around noon. Or at least I hope so. Depending on the timing, my sis in Penn Hills might just lump it and decide to not come.

  38. 38.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    Also, too, the president will be about three blocks from my office tomorrow. I’m seriously considering riding my bike to see if I can skim past some of the sure-to-be horrendous traffic.

  39. 39.

    raven

    @BruceFromOhio: Remember in “We Were Soldiers” (and in real life) the Army was not ready for the level of casualties we were suffering and the fucking CAB DRIVERS delivered the telegrams to families of the deceased at Benning?

  41. 41.

    Mike E

    @raven: Well, she made it sound like it was before the mission started, but we know now it was pretty much a done deal when the admin was talking about it. So, yeah.

  48. 48.

    danielx

    Amazing. Either the Mustache of Understanding has gone off his meds or gone on some better ones. Generally he’s among the first to endorse dropping a few billion to bomb the shit out of people and to put somebody else’s kids’ asses on the line.

    Can hear the loud neocon/Villager chorus “What the hell is the matter with Friedman? C’mon, Tom, get with the program! A foreign policy win for Obama is not on the program at the moment; didn’t you get the tweet?”

  49. 49.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @danielx:

    A foreign policy win for Obama is not on the program at the moment; didn’t you get the tweet?”

    Foreign policy win? At the moment? For Obama?

    No win is ever on the program for the blah usurper who is harshing our Georgtown cocktail parties by his very existence.

  50. 50.

    Fuzzy

    Why would anybody care what Kristol or any of the other Jewish pundits or big contributors say or write. Bibi owns them and their money.

  51. 51.

    Cacti

    The neocons are really upset about this deal, as it could be the end of their decades-long dream of war with Iran for fun and profit.

  52. 52.

    Cervantes

    @Comrade Jake: He may be nostalgic for the days (or rather, years) before “http://” — if so, it’s … understandable.

    Anyway, hadn’t seen it before. Thanks.

  53. 53.

    Sherparick

    Daniel Larison (a definitely off the reservation conservative) wrote the following about the Hawks reaction:

    “…This overlooks that opposing diplomacy with Iran is a matter of pride for many Iran hawks, so it really makes no difference to them if the deal is a short-term one or not. Flatly rejecting even an interim deal is how they establish that they are more hostile to Iran than everyone else, and they want to demonstrate this because they think it is laudable to be as hard-line as possible on this issue. As for looking like “sober statesmen,” this is not very important to most of the deal’s detractors. If the choice is between being seen as reasonable or being seen as relentlessly hard-line, I suspect that many Iran hawks would prefer the latter. Put another way, John Bolton does not want to “chill,” and sees no reason to do so.

    Drezner may be right that Iran hawks would retain more credibility with everyone else if they held their fire for a later, comprehensive agreement, but among other Iran hawks they would lose credibility if they endorsed any deal with Iran. So they denounce the current deal, and they will denounce future agreements in the same terms, because they really are opposed to diplomatic engagement with Iran all together. Besides, Iran hawks have raised the bar so high on what it means to be “tough” on Iran that they are stuck defending ludicrous positions that they were compelled to adopt to confirm their status as a hard-liner.” http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/iran-hawks-and-iran-diplomacy/

    It is really hard to find words for these people, who one would call silly, but for the fact that if they their way to dogs of war would unleashed in the Persian Gulf once again, with a resulting world economic catastrophe and the blood of hundreds of thousands on our hands.

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