Reader JK sent me something that made me want to vomit:
Download your holiday guide to civility from Mark Shields and David Brooks
[…]It’s the holidays, and that means one thing: It’s time for uncomfortable political discussions with your distant relatives.
Uncle George founded the tea party chapter in Tulsa. Cousin Minnie just switched to a completely hemp-based diet. Sparks will fly. To bring peace across the land this holiday season, we asked Mark Shields and David Brooks to share their strategies for keeping things civil at the family dinner table. We baked Mark and David’s sage wisdom into a handy Thanksgiving placemat, which you can print and share with your most uncivil family members.
Here’s what our champions of civility had to say…
Click through and read at your own peril.
Marc
You see? Both sides are uncivil!
bemused
Brooks’ rabbi story was helpful….not.
beltane
@Marc: Tea party bigots are for real, hippies subsisting on a hemp-based diet are purely creatures of the imagination. With such obvious false equivalency as its basic premise, I see no need to torture myself by reading any further.
Linda Featheringill
The SIL unit, known as the Resident Grump, has been arguing with his family for a couple of weeks. Bless his heart, his family is almost as crazy as mine was.
Anyway, happy holiday to everyone. I gotta go play with bread dough. Cheers.
Gin & Tonic
Two wealthy old boring white men who will never want for anything for the rest of their lives can certainly afford to pretend that deep policy differences don’t actually matter. To some people, votes taken in Congress mean that at the end of each month they don’t eat – those two lack even the empathy to understand that. It’s a lot easier to be civil if you’re rich.
WereBear
Now this is helpful:
William’s Shatner’s PSA about deep-frying your turkey
A tale of turkey from my favorite ham :)
Pogonip
Give thanks: the Pizza Hut manager who refused to open on Thanksgiving has been rehired. I hope he finds a better job soon; as a brave, decent, and honorable man, he is not a good fit for their company.
Cassidy
@Pogonip: He’ll be let go in a couple months when people have forgotten.
negative 1
Remember folks — hating talentless hack David Brooks can be a bipartisan discussion. You may not hate him for the same content reasons though, so stick to personal attacks.
fka AWS
Why the hell would I ruin a holiday like that?
Davis X. Machina
@beltane:
Almost. There’s some evidence to the contrary visible every fall in Unity, Maine. (Only event I know with valet bicycle parking…)
Woodrowfan
Eh, Sgt. Pepper was a better album…
gbear
I was hoping that link was to the NYT so I could skip the article and go directly to the shreading of it in the ‘reader’s picks’ comments. No way I’m clikcing on this story at PBS.
TaMara (BHF)
@fka AWS: I was thinking the same thing. Not for all the mashed potatoes and gravy in the world would I read that.
The Pale Scot
I plan on stifling the fox heads by regaling them with tales of the oncoming era of antibiotic resistant bacteria until they’re in a froth about why The Government isn’t doing something!
TaMara (BHF)
Speaking of turkeys (hee-hee see what I did there), I purchased a locally grown fresh turkey this year and I’ve promised myself that will be my practice going forward. Nothing tastes as good as fresh.
J
Gag me with a spoon, as one said in the day.
Schlemizel
THANKS FOR POSTING THAT!!!
I good total purge in the morning will allow me a lot more room for stuffing and wild rice casserole later today.
I used to like Shields but I guess if you want to remain in the good graces of the Kool Kids Klub you simply have to play the game by their rules.
A.J.
I love you guys.
Don’t really comment a whole lot, but I read almost every post almost every day, and I’m incredibly grateful that I found BJ.
Hope you all have a great day.
Schlemizel
@negative 1:
I like the way you think, do you perchance have a newsletter to which I could subscribe?
Napoleon
Why the fuck does PBS use Shields for the left?
Villago Delenda Est
@J:
Don’t bring that putz Cohen into this!
Davis X. Machina
@TaMara (BHF): There’s a world beyond heritage turkeys. If you’d like, come up to Maine, and hit a wild turkey with your car. Free range. Free bird. Sooner or later everyone does. Hell, there’s a good chance the wild turkey will hit you.
They’re like 9-14 pound starlings.
(It’s actually a wildlife re-introduction success story. 40 years ago, the bird was unknown in Maine, so 40-some birds were imported 1977 from Vermont…
The rest is history.
Rosalita
if they had any “civility” they’d shut their pie holes for the holiday.
Happy Thanksgiving Juicers!!
Villago Delenda Est
@Gin & Tonic:
Word.
Tumbrel rides for both of them.
Schlemizel
@A.J.:
Too true – I would be remiss in not acknowledging how grateful I am for the good people here at BJ. They have been kind and supportive when I needed it while being informational and enlightening. This is one of only a couple of places on the whole of the Intertubes I bother to read comments and it is rare I ever regret stopping by. In recent weeks I have have hit a wall and don’t want to go over the same ground yet again so I have not been as active, for that I apologize (though some may not mind) but I always stop by and read. Happy Thanksgiving to all youse guys
Frankensteinbeck
Brooks? I’m guessing that essential to discussing politics with civility is accepting your teabilly’s clearly factual point that entitlements are the cause of the debt. Only by courteously accepting his framing can you have a mature discussion.
PsiFighter37
@Napoleon: Same reason Fox used Colmes as their ‘liberal’…don’t want any dirty hippies spouting liberal-leaning facts on their shows.
Or having a backbone.
Higgs Boson's Mate
On this Thanksgiving we should eschew harsh words. It is a day for giving thanks, not a day for for insult.
Now let us all take a moment to bow our heads and give thanks that we’re not dessicated, talentless, fucktards like Brooks and Shields.
schrodinger's cat
Whenever I see Brooks on TV, I can’t stand to keep it on for more than 5 minutes, I find his smug mug irritating. As for jowly Shields, he is completely ineffectual and no match for Uriah Heep Brooks.
Suzanne
@Schlemizel: Hugs. I hope things get better for you.
I also am thankful for this “place”. Youse guys make me think and laugh, and I’m always so thankful to realize I am not alone.
srv
Fortunately, I’m immune to this taunt that would drive any normal person to go all Hinckley with Brooks, because the dealer in my folks’ town square has a sign “We will not sell you a gun if you voted for Obama, because you’ve demonstrated you are incompetent to vote and own a weapon”
A visiting cousin said he stopped in Mt. Pleasant on the way to the reunion, and a redneck was in the order line on his phone “I came into town because I heard Obama was going to ban ammo sales…”
He also had an anecdote that Walmart has set a limit of 3 boxes of ammo a day per customer (blamed on Obama) because otherwise they’d sell out.
Mike in NC
@Gin & Tonic:
Civility is one of those things that should only be discussed in quiet rooms, as a certain rich bastard once declared.
WereBear
And they claim the President isn’t good for the economy!
geg6
Fuck Brooks and Shields. I’m knitting away while I hope that they get their just desserts.
Meanwhile, let me say how grateful I am for BJ, which has kept me sane while awaiting the wingnut event horizon and most especially for bringing my Koda to me.
schrodinger's cat
OT: We are thinking of going to see Gravity this weekend and I was wondering whether the 3D option is really worth $3 more? Any suggestions?
Amir Khalid
David Brooks is going through a divorce, ain’tcha heard? After the success of his course on humility at Yale, no doubt some other university out there is preparing to invite him to teach a course on marital happiness.
Oh, before I forget — a happy Thanksgiving and/or Chanukah to all who celebrate them.
Amir Khalid
@schrodinger’s cat:
Yes, it’s worth the extra to see Gravity in 3D.
Burnspbesq
The War on Civility is complete and utter bullshit. Fuck each and every one of you.
e.a.f.
civility at family dinners? please leave the gun at home. we’ve had enough shootings. for civility at family dinners: no discussions of politcs, sex, or religion until after 4 a.m. after the dinner.
greennotGreen
Guys, I was looking forward to a big shindig at my cousin’s for Thanksgivukkah, but I’ve come down with a cold and will be spending the holiday alone…except I have the delightful incivility of Balloon Juice to brighten my day – another of the many things I have to be thankful for! May you all have wonderful Thanksgiving dinners, and if you do get into political arguments, may you crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!
Jewish Steel
@WereBear: The guy in the garbage dump at the end? My student, Joe! He’s blossomed into a fine guitarist at 50 years old.
Amir Khalid
Also, I like that David Brooks, who reacted to Paul Krugman’s well-founded criticism by calling Krugman a blowhard, is now lecturing people on civility.
Mark S.
@Amir Khalid:
That’s a weird reason to change your name.
WereBear
@Jewish Steel: How wonderful! And it seems he is multi-talented. Congrats!
Bill E Pilgrim
I thought Mark Shields’ advice for achieving civility was to say as often as possible “I agree with David”.
I prefer Alex’s list. He does say at the top that the first advice is to avoid arguing at all on Thanksgiving if you can, but then provides reminders to use to win the argument anyway since the crazy uncle will provoke you way too much to resist.
He arranges it in a list of what you could call Frequently Stated Fallacies and then fact-based responses, my favorite of which starts like this:
(Fallacy) “Death panels are real because Mark Halperin said so.”
(Response) “First of all, Mark Halperin is a colossal buffoon.” […]
Frankensteinbeck
@Amir Khalid:
One crucial element of civility is accepting that everyone’s opinion is as valid as everyone else’s. Krugman believes that these things called ‘facts’ can make someone’s opinion invalid, which is unforgivably uncivil in the pundit community. I wish any of that was a joke.
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (Mumphrey, et al.)
The kicker is the inevitable pictures of David Brooks and mark Shields wearing Pilgrim hats.
I don’t get this fetish fro “civility”. Would anybody really say that there’s some kind of duty to be civil to your brother in law if he made his fortune selling homeless children to whorehouses? What if “Uncle George” is in the KKK as well as the Tealiban? What if your cousin owns a business that forecloses on orphanages? There are just some people who have given up any right to demand that others be “civil” to them.
What I wrote above is over the top, I know, but, shit, if you willingly vote for people who work to take food away from hungry children, how is that so unlike foreclosing on orphanages? If you still believe the president was born in Kenya, how far is that, really, from just taking that last step and signing up with the KKK?
Civility is not the highest virtue. I can think of a few offhand I’d rank above civility: Empathy, kindness, truthfulness and a willingness to give ungrudgingly what you can to those who need it. But these modern American press people only care about civility, and I think that it’s because it’s a way to shut people up when they begin to bring up harsh truths. “Oh, let’s not talk about how Paul Ryan’s budget screws poor people; I know the guy, and he’s a nice guy. It’s mean to say things like that about him.”
Civility is a racket. And one last point that ought to shut up the civility assholes: You know who wasn’t civil? There are a whole lot of people I could list, but I’ll leave it with four. Jesus, Neson Mandela, Martin Luther King and Gandhi.
gbear
@schrodinger’s cat: YES!
Wag
Read the linked article and it’s actually pretty goo advice. Especially David brooks advise to tell anyone who claims the President is from Kenya that they’re wrong followed by throwing the turkey at them
Mark shields had a couple if great questions to use to change the subject if necessary.
Not a complete waste of time
schrodinger's cat
Civility is overrated. I think we need to confront wingnut BS and not let it go unchallenged.
WereBear
Exactly! It’s so uncouth to bring up all the people someone made suffer, when these canapes are so cunning!
(My understanding of the higher social classes have been indelibly warped by countless readings of Auntie Mame and the rare, hard-to-find, sequels.)
Amir Khalid
@schrodinger’s cat:
Sez you. ;)
Fuzzy
@Davis X. Machina: They did the same in CT by putting birds in water reservoir areas where there was no traffic nor hunting. As new habitat was needed they just wandered away. Now the state has spring and fall hunting seasons and the hills are still over flowing.
Villago Delenda Est
@Burnspbesq:
I see what you did there, counselor…
Shana
I’m surprised I’m the first one to comment on the post title, a reference to Robyn Hitchcock’s “The President” a great song from the Reagan era.
Tokyokie
@Burnspbesq: The fuck you say!
Villago Delenda Est
@Bill E Pilgrim:
Talk about your use of civility by understating just how great a fucktard the vile sack of shit is…
schrodinger's cat
@Amir Khalid: Brooksie is an umble hypocrite.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mark S.:
Starts out with a howling lie in the second word. Yeah, “respected” by his fellow Villager vermin. Sure. That’s like cockroaches and rats having a mutual amity.
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid:
Hey, he didn’t call him a fucktard. So there’s that.
raven
OK, the temp climbed to 48 so I’m off to the beach to try my luck!
Monala
It kind of cracks me up when I read stuff like this. Tea Party uncles is such a white people issue….
Villago Delenda Est
@Monala:
It’s part of our ongoing burden…
Barry
@srv: “He also had an anecdote that Walmart has set a limit of 3 boxes of ammo a day per customer (blamed on Obama) because otherwise they’d sell out. ”
Ammo sales have skyrocketed since 2008. The ammo manufacturers know that this will end soon, and so aren’t building up their manufacturing capacity. Just jack up the prices.
me
If he’s talking about himself, yes.
ruviana
@Amir Khalid: Oh, noes! Whatever will happen to the vast spaces for entertaining?
Villago Delenda Est
@Barry:
They know just how stupid their target market it.
Woodrowfan
@greennotGreen: I’m with you Had surgery yesterday (out-patient) and have a cold so am in bed today. just my wife and I at home with the pups. Just drink fluids and nap. enjoy the chance to rest.
Amir Khalid
@Barry:
Why would anyone ever need three boxes of ammo a day? (Okay, I’m not sure how many rounds that is, and it must vary with the type of ammo, but it sounds like way more than even a very busy cop would need.)
Napoleon
@schrodinger’s cat:
Yes, not only 3D but if you have the IMAX option take that as well. I paid 15 for my tickets and it was worth it.
Fuzzy
@Wag: Great topics. Thanks for some more ammunition for some know it all table sitters.
Suffern ACE
@schrodinger’s cat: yes. Usually I say skip it, but gravity is about 3d effects.
NotMax
@Wag
Technical quibble.
While it is true that the number of presidents is 44, the number of people who have been president is only 43.
Pesky Grover Cleveland, prez #22 & #24.
/pedant
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@schrodinger’s cat:
I’ll add to the chorus and say that, yes, the 3-D is worth it for “Gravity.” Usually I hate 3-D because I have to wear the glasses over my regular glasses, but they use it really well.
YellowJournalism
So….annoying diet tips versus possibly racist, bigoted misinformation? Um, yeah, they’re totally the same thing.
Amir Khalid
@Mnemosyne (iPhone):
Wearing 3D specs over my own glasses annoys me too, especially when it makes my glasses fog over(I want 3D clip-ons, dammit!). I’m glad movie makers are finally learning that those annoying poke-your-eye stunts are NOT the way to use 3D.
hitchhiker
Can you tell from what these two privileged white guys are yammering about that neither of them is concerned with the actual planning, preparation, presentation, or cleaning up after this meal? Others will do all the work, while they concern themselves with philosophy.
I swear to jeebus, the reek of entitlement gets overpowering sometimes, even when they’re trying to be tongue in cheek & all cute & everything . . . they can’t remember that they’re basically worthless in any meaningful terms.
WereBear
Actually, I think that, deep down, they know that. A lot of frantic activity goes into DENIAL. That thing takes a lot of fuel!
bemused
@Amir Khalid:
I wonder who gets the $4 million dollar home. The wife may be just as insufferable but I’m betting on her. 27 years with boring Brooks, just yuk.
WereBear
@bemused: After she converted and changed her name!
I’m sensing rage.
Woodrowfan
@bemused: eh I’m sure the hot sex made it bearable…….then again…
geg6
@bemused:
It was all her money to start with. Why, yes, David Brooks is a whore.
phoebes-in-santa fe
@Wag: I agree, Wag. I didn’t see anything wrong with it. But then I’m about to leave for a late Thanksgiving lunch with five avowed liberals and we’ll probably bore each other silly.
Steeplejack
@schrodinger’s cat:
Yes. In fact, Gravity is one of the few movies that I thought really deserved and made good use of 3-D.
Mullah DougJ
@The Pale Scot:
I love it.
Rafer Janders
@srv:
Um, don’t they want to sell out? So this anecdote depends on a business voluntarily choosing to sell less than they could, and thereby make less money than they could, because Obama?
Stupid: it’s what’s for dinner.
Mandalay
There is a welcome trend of businesses no longer kissing the asses of obnoxious customers and potential customers. Here’s a great example of such lack of civility:
Great stuff. As someone posted on that thread, first world problems to the max.
PIGL
@Woodrowfan: Congratulations on your internets! Shipping today, with extra gravy and complementary cranberry sauce.
lol
@Rafer Janders:
If they sell out, they end up with angry customers who storm away without buying anything, upset at the store for giving into Obummer’s jackbooted gun-grabbing Chicago thugs.
If they, ahem, ration the ammunition, everyone gets some and buys a bunch of other crap they don’t need and they make more money overall. Rationing is also a good excuse to jack up the prices long before you actually run out.
J R in WV
Happy Thanksgiving everyone! We’re holed up here in the head of the holler, quiet and thankful for the quietude. Just us and the furballs.
I am thankful for all you commenters, who help me believe I’m not crazy, it’s those other guys!
Amir Khalid
@geg6:
You mean Bobo married money, just like the Moustache of Understanding? I’m … no, I’m not shocked, not really.
Jamey
@TaMara (BHF): Only if you’re eating them raw, preferably whilst they’re living.
danielx
Mark Shields and David Brooks, awright…..
Waffle, meet Douche. Douche, Waffle.
I’m sure you crazy kids will be very happy together.
I don’t know about Shields, but I seriously doubt that David Fucking Brooks (soon to be divorced) has any words of wisdom on family gatherings (or anything else) that would be worthy of comment.
slippy
@danielx:
A true and complete statement, that is.