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You are here: Home / Economics / Free Markets Solve Everything / Never Gonna Get It

Never Gonna Get It

by $8 blue check mistermix|  November 28, 20139:52 am| 91 Comments

This post is in: Free Markets Solve Everything

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Here are the area stores where I’m not shopping this year:

Opening Thanksgiving morning
Wal-Mart: open 24 hours. Black Friday deals start at 6 p.m.
Kmart: 6 a.m.
Big Lots: 7 a.m. to 11 p.m.; reopening at 6 a.m. Black Friday
Bass Pro Shops: Auburn store (8 a.m. to 6 p.m. on Thanksgiving; 5 a.m. to 9 p.m. on Black Friday), Utica store (8 a.m. to 6 p.m. on Thanksgiving; 6 a.m. to 9 p.m. on Black Friday)
Gander Mountain: 8 a.m. on Thanksgiving to 2 a.m. Black Friday; reopening at 6 a.m. Black Friday
Old Navy: 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.; reopening at 7 p.m. (the Great Northern store will reopen at 8 p.m.)

The rest of you can consult your own moral code, Lord and Savior, or spouse and family to decide where to shop, but for me, being open all day on Thanksgiving is a bridge too far. If you open at 6 PM on Thanksgiving (which a whole bunch of others stores are), at least you’re giving your employees a chance to spend the day with the family.

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Previous Post: « Thursday Morning Open Thread: Happy Hanukkah!
Next Post: Every time I hear the world “civility”, I reach for my revolver »

Reader Interactions

91Comments

  1. 1.

    WereBear

    November 28, 2013 at 9:53 am

    They will say it’s part of the “poor economy” which… guess what? You ARE A MUCH BIGGER PART OF THAN YOUR EMPLOYEES.

  2. 2.

    Davis X. Machina

    November 28, 2013 at 9:59 am

    We’re not shopping at all, not at anything bigger than the corner store, not anyone.

    In Maine, Rhode Island and Massachusetts, larger stores don’t open — it’s a state law. In Maine the limit is 5,000 square feet. Convenience stores are allowed to open, as are movie theaters, pharmacies, and restaurants, with some other businesses like gas stations.

    Three cheers for the nanny state.

  3. 3.

    Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)

    November 28, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Hear hear.

    The willingness of the proletariat to actively, even aggressively, participate in their own destruction never ceases to horrify.

  4. 4.

    Currants

    November 28, 2013 at 10:12 am

    @Davis X. Machina: Yes. That said, I’m grateful to the employees who will be working in the several places my sil and his family will have to be today through Sat as they travel south. (His youngest brother died yesterday in a diving accident and they are going to bring him home. My heart aches for the very hard times for them just now.)

  5. 5.

    Gretchen

    November 28, 2013 at 10:13 am

    I never shop at Walmart ever.

  6. 6.

    Soonergrunt

    November 28, 2013 at 10:15 am

    One thing about this:
    ” If you open at 6 PM on Thanksgiving (which a whole bunch of others stores are), at least you’re giving your employees a chance to spend the day with the family.”
    They aren’t giving their employees much in that way. There’s all sorts of prep work that has to be done for these kinds of sales, so the staff that are working would have to come in 2-3 hours before the store opens.
    My niece is working in a Best Buy that opens at 6:00 PM in Tulsa. She can’t spend any time with us because she worked till closing last night, and there’s no way in hell she can safely make the drive to OKC (2 hours), have turkey with us, and drive back (2 hours) in time to get to work for her scheduled reporting time of 3:00 PM. The store is not closing until 10:00 PM tomorrow night. Some time in there, she’ll get a break for 6-8 hours. She doesn’t yet know when.

  7. 7.

    NotMax

    November 28, 2013 at 10:16 am

    Not a single word about the view?

    It must be breathtaking from atop that high horse.

  8. 8.

    Tommy

    November 28, 2013 at 10:19 am

    There is this thing called the Internet. If I shop today, and I can’t see how I will, it would be there.

    Now to rant for a second. A super Wal-mart opened near me. My little rural town has a huge advertising campaign now to shop local. It seems to be working. I would like to say I never go to Wal-mart, but my gosh I do from time to time.

    It is just too darn easy. I can drive four miles and shop there, or like 35 miles to head to other places that sell everything Wal-mart does. It pains me, but it is what it is.

  9. 9.

    shelly

    November 28, 2013 at 10:20 am

    Places to shop? P.C. Richards not opening till Saturday.

  10. 10.

    Glocksman

    November 28, 2013 at 10:23 am

    @Davis X. Machina:

    You mean that Walmart hasn’t got those laws repealed??
    Obviously their ALEC co-opted legislators are sleeping on the job!

    That said, I’m glad that I have today off and sympathize with those who don’t.
    Though I work 10 hours mandatory OT tomorrow and 10 hours voluntary (double time for teh win) on Saturday.

    My employer (TJ Maxx Evansville DC) was quoted in USA TODAY as stating that they believe that employees should spend Thanksgiving with their families.

    The cynical, 17 year TJ employee side of me thinks that the sole reason they aren’t open today is that ‘Black Friday’ sales are inconsistent with their everyday low prices marketing strategy.

    As an aside, at work I recently processed the most expensive merchandise outside of furniture that I’d ever seen go through our warehouse.

    A pair of Jimmy Choo boots that we were selling for $1049.99.
    The compare at price was $1500.
    Jesus Christ on a pogo stick!

    Though it did say in the planner instructions to ship all of this PO’s merchandise to store 133, which is our New York flagship store.
    I guess that makes sense as I can’t see a TJ Maxx customer in West Bumfuck being in the market for a thousand dollar pair of boots.

  11. 11.

    Joseph Nobles

    November 28, 2013 at 10:24 am

    I just looked and Fry’s Electronics is 100% closed today, not even opening at midnight. So it’s going to get my business this year. And so is Costco.

  12. 12.

    dpm (dread pirate mistermix)

    November 28, 2013 at 10:26 am

    @Soonergrunt: Good point. Now my list is longer.

  13. 13.

    WereBear

    November 28, 2013 at 10:27 am

    @Glocksman: That’s kinda me & Overstock.com when it comes to clothes. Yes, it’s a great bargain that those pants are marked down from $700 to $120, but I still can’t pay $120 for a pair of pants.

  14. 14.

    Cassidy

    November 28, 2013 at 10:31 am

    Already toned out once this morning. Someone is going to spend a couple hours of Thanksgiving in the hospital. Fortunately just severe back pain. We’re blowing up today though.

  15. 15.

    Davis X. Machina

    November 28, 2013 at 10:31 am

    @Glocksman: ALEC tried, and quite frankly, with the nice shiny governor they bought in 2010 I’m surprised they didn’t pull it off. The legislature flipped back D in 2012, which — I hope — put paid to that bit of ‘progress’.

    We had no Sunday retail sales at all in sub 5000 sq. ft. stores* when I moved to Maine in the ’80’s. Then there was a betweeny period with just the Sundays between Thanksgiving and Christmas, then — by referendum — full Sunday opening.

    *The L.L. Bean mothership over in Freeport was, and still is an exception. They’ve been open 7/24/365 since the mind of man not runneth to the contrary, going back to the old store on Main Street with the wavy hardwood floors and tilted staircase.

  16. 16.

    Tommy

    November 28, 2013 at 10:34 am

    @Glocksman: I spend and/or have spent more then I care to admit on cloths. And I have this “shoe thing.” I think the most expensive were some Bruno Magli at around $600. I joke they are my OJ shoes. Got them at TJ Maxx in DC where they had stuff you’d never find here in Southern Illinois. Don’t think I would ever pay that much again, and I can’t imagine paying more than $1,000.

  17. 17.

    different-church-lady

    November 28, 2013 at 10:35 am

    Oh that’s nothing: next year WalMart plans to be open 25 hours a day.

    The stunt-based economy never sleeps.

  18. 18.

    Glocksman

    November 28, 2013 at 10:36 am

    @WereBear:

    No kidding.
    I do all of my clothes shopping at Marshalls (they have a big & tall section and TJX owns them, so I get a 10% discount).
    The only problem is that oftentimes the clothing is so over the top ‘urban contemporary’ that it would leave Dennis Rodman shaking his head.

    But if nothing else it is comfortable to wear.

  19. 19.

    negative 1

    November 28, 2013 at 10:39 am

    @Davis X. Machina: Someone should ask Bill Rennie if he’s working today, if he’s so fucking concerned.

  20. 20.

    Davis X. Machina

    November 28, 2013 at 10:43 am

    @negative 1: I had a dear friend who worked a holiday-dependent mall store for a national brand, and I’ve come to the considered opinion that there are few better folks than those who work retail on the floor, and none worse than those who work retail in the suites.

  21. 21.

    Glocksman

    November 28, 2013 at 10:48 am

    @Davis X. Machina:

    Interesting.

    Locally the only stores that were open today until recently were the usual ones.
    Convenience stores, the 24hr CVS, etc.

    Shit, the CVS does a land office business on holidays selling cigarettes and booze to those who forgot to stock up. :)

    My problem with open retailers has more to do with the employees than it does with the sanctity of the holiday.
    If a retailer can staff with genuine volunteers (double time is a good incentive for single people* to work), I don’t have a problem.

    It’s the assholes who say ‘work or get fired’ and don’t offer premium pay that I have a problem with.

    *My Dad works all the overtime he can get, though I suspect it’s more to get away from his bitchy 2nd wife than it is about the money.

    Though he did recently pay cash for a black 2014 Camaro SS.
    My 72 year old Dad bought a muscle car!!

  22. 22.

    linda

    November 28, 2013 at 10:50 am

    In the midwest, there’s Meijers which has always been open 24/7 every day but Christmas.

  23. 23.

    Tommy

    November 28, 2013 at 10:52 am

    @Glocksman: LOL. I am pretty much a TJ Maxx and Marshal person myself. I have the opposite problem you have. I am a 5’4 (on my tippy toes) 128 pound dude. I often shop, please don’t laugh, in the Junior section. And those stores have a pretty good selection. I bet it is as hard for me to find cloths that fit (never had a pair of pants that fit without alteration). It is really a pain in my ass. I have a 29 inch waist and I buy pants that are like 8 inches too long. I wonder what human can fit in them.

  24. 24.

    Tommy

    November 28, 2013 at 10:58 am

    @Glocksman: I agree 110%. Years ago when I was in college. A long way from my family. I worked at a CVS type store and to be honest I wanted that time and a half pay to work holidays. Now this was the late 80s. Not sure if this is still the case, but we got paid more for any of the major holidays. July 4. Thanksgiving. Christmas. Really any of the Federal holidays. I wanted that pay check. But it was my choice. We were NOT forced to work if we didn’t want to.

  25. 25.

    karen

    November 28, 2013 at 10:59 am

    Here is a list of stores that are NOT open on Thanksgiving.

    Barnes & Noble
    Burlington Coat Factory
    Costco
    Dillard’s
    DSW
    Hobby Lobby – yes they suck but at least they’re not open.
    Home Depot
    Marshalls
    Menards
    Nordstrom
    Radio Shack
    REI
    Sam’s Club
    Sur La Table
    TJ Maxx – though according to Glocksman, that’s not the case in DC?
    Von Maur

  26. 26.

    Glocksman

    November 28, 2013 at 11:02 am

    @Tommy:

    A buddy of mine is about your size, and his feet are so small he has trouble finding shoes in stock locally that fit him.

    He went into the Red Wing store once and after finding a style he liked that wasn’t stocked in his size, the salesgirl brought out a pair that were identical and fit fine.

    The only problem is that they were womens shoes.

    I have the opposite problem.
    Outside of New Balance and the service/work shoe people, no one makes a 12.5 or 13 4E.

  27. 27.

    BGinCHI

    November 28, 2013 at 11:03 am

    MM, are Wegman’s and Tops open all day today?

    Curious whether they do that and I can’t remember….

  28. 28.

    Suzanne

    November 28, 2013 at 11:03 am

    @Soonergrunt: EXACTLY. Even if they open early on Black Friday, they’re making employees work on Thanksgiving to prep the store. My friend’s husband has to double-shift today at a local Target.

  29. 29.

    gbear

    November 28, 2013 at 11:05 am

    Walgreens is open on Thanksgiving too. I need some batteries and one of their stores is only two blocks from where I’m having Thanksgiving dinner. There is some temptation to stop there today instead of waiting until saturday…

  30. 30.

    Fuzzy

    November 28, 2013 at 11:08 am

    Add Pizza Hut to the list. The manager was fired for not asking people to work on T-Day.

  31. 31.

    pablo

    November 28, 2013 at 11:08 am

    I was very depressed when I found out this morning that I was missing the spices for my pumpkin pie, and realized all the shops would be closed. Then I read this article, and realized that Walmart was open. While I agree with the sentiment….come on this was an EMERGENCY!!!

  32. 32.

    ruviana

    November 28, 2013 at 11:08 am

    @Glocksman: You could say I live in West Bumfuck and here our TJ Maxx was selling $500 purses for $250 and cuisinart cookware for $150-200. It all might be cheaper than list but it’s still way outside of MY price range!

  33. 33.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 28, 2013 at 11:08 am

    @karen:

    Sam’s Club is another branch of WalMart.

    Utterly and completely evil.

  34. 34.

    Tommy

    November 28, 2013 at 11:10 am

    @Glocksman: I feel your pain. The opposite problem, but I totally understand not being able to find cloths that fit. Heck when I worked in an office and wore a suit, I had them hand made (Tom James) cause I literally couldn’t find anything that fit correctly.

    As for shoes I find I am lucky. Size 7.5. My experience is few people have/wear that size, but often stocked. So often I get shoes for next to nothing, on clearance.

  35. 35.

    PurpleGirl

    November 28, 2013 at 11:11 am

    @Tommy: A human who wears 4-5 inch spike heels or 3-4 inch (or higher) platform shoes.

  36. 36.

    ruviana

    November 28, 2013 at 11:12 am

    @BGinCHI: Can’t say about Top’s since I never go there but Wegman’s is open today. They’ve always been open as long as I’ve lived in this region. But the people who work it volunteer, or so they say. Wegman’s is generally seen as a very good place to work, and indeed I’m doing my grocery shopping today because they’re open.

  37. 37.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 28, 2013 at 11:14 am

    @Suzanne:

    This has been true for decades. Family gettogethers 30 years ago were disrupted by my late brother leaving Thanksgiving Afternoon to drive back up to Portland to work prep for the store he worked for at the Jantzen Mall.

    Me? I was in the Army then, I got a four day weekend. Drove down from Fort Lewis on Wednesday night, drove back up on Sunday. Picked up my brother on the way down (at the Mall, mind you, where he was already working prep) to head home to Tracktown.

  38. 38.

    Fuzzy

    November 28, 2013 at 11:15 am

    Think of the hospital employees (nurses, cooks, lab techs, aids etc) having to work. I have spent one Thanksgiving and one Christmas confined there and they do everything to make it tolerable.

  39. 39.

    BGinCHI

    November 28, 2013 at 11:15 am

    @ruviana: Thanks. Yeah, I wasn’t dissing them. Of all places, I can see why groceries are open, since folks do need stuff. And I bet Wegman’s pays well for their time today.

    Plus, if your family are assholes then you make double time and avoid Uncle Harry the wingnut.

  40. 40.

    Fuzzy

    November 28, 2013 at 11:17 am

    @pablo: So your poor planning requires many others to work. Try borrowing from a neighbor as I’m sure they shopped better than you.

  41. 41.

    e.a.f.

    November 28, 2013 at 11:18 am

    Whether its economics or ethical planning, not opening on Thanksgiving Day is a good thing. None of these stores need to be open on Thanksgiving Day. Opening on Friday would be soon enough. People deserve to have this day off, once a year to spend with their families. Those who shop on Thanksgiving to “get deals” are simply contriubting to the problem.

    Its simply a lot of hype and greed. Its a lot of stuff from China, which most people don’t need. People would be better off to stay home, not use the gas, and enjoy the quiet. Think of it as a day to conserve.

  42. 42.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 28, 2013 at 11:21 am

    @e.a.f.:

    Think of it as a day to conserve.

    Dick Cheney, the “conservative”, hates conservation.

  43. 43.

    Tommy

    November 28, 2013 at 11:22 am

    @BGinCHI: LOL. For me it is just my mom and dad at my house today. Then Saturday I go with my brother and his family he married into. Like walking into, well the far, far, far right loony bin. I mean they openly talk about Obama being from Kenya and a Muslim. And that is the tame stuff.

    Only good thing, and my father is nothing close to a liberal (proud Republican) but he doesn’t cotton much to saying stupid shit. So when things go off the rails, well it takes care of it on his own.

  44. 44.

    BGinCHI

    November 28, 2013 at 11:26 am

    @Tommy: I’d rather stack peppers at Wegman’s than do any of that family stuff.

    Holidays with friends is the way to go. Everyone pretty much does it on purpose and for the right reason instead of out of duty or habit.

  45. 45.

    Glocksman

    November 28, 2013 at 11:26 am

    @karen:

    In the USA Today article, a company spokesdrone said the stores were closed today.
    When I said ‘DC’ earlier, it stands for ‘Distribution Center’, not District of Columbia.

    I shouldn’t have used workplace jargon.
    Sorry about any confusion.

  46. 46.

    gbear

    November 28, 2013 at 11:31 am

    @Fuzzy: You might give up being a dick for the day – in keeping with the holiday. Or just save it for your family…

  47. 47.

    Tommy

    November 28, 2013 at 11:35 am

    @BGinCHI: Honstly I didn’t really like my parents that much. As I have gotten older (I am 44) and now enjoy my time with them. Never thought that would be the case, in my 20s and 30s I would not see them for years at a time. But I grew up (not saying you didn’t grow up) and realized I was wrong here.

    As for my brother, we are not that close, but I do the “family” thing cause well it is just “polite.” What we do. My parents are too nice to say it, but they hate it more then I might. I could rant for hours about how hard it is for us to attend that darn dinner, but lets just say it is only two times a year. Thanksgiving and Christmas. We for lack of a better phrase, support my brother.

  48. 48.

    Cassidy

    November 28, 2013 at 11:37 am

    Won’t anyone think of those poor NFL players who have to work on Thanksgiving?

  49. 49.

    BGinCHI

    November 28, 2013 at 11:40 am

    @Tommy: I get it. Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do.

    But still, I love spending this kind of time with friends. There is more happiness in choosing what you want to do rather than doing what you ought to do.

  50. 50.

    BGinCHI

    November 28, 2013 at 11:40 am

    @Cassidy: Who will mourn for the cheerleaders?

  51. 51.

    Tommy

    November 28, 2013 at 11:44 am

    @BGinCHI: No disagreement there. I just do what I want 363 days out of the year. I can grin and bear it 2 days.

  52. 52.

    Jane2

    November 28, 2013 at 11:49 am

    Moral code? This argument is the same one Torontonians of a certain ilk use in the perennial argument against stores opening on Sunday or December 26th. Why is it always retail that gets the Offensorati up in arms, and not all of the other stuff that requires living, breathing, working people to keep going?

    For a more realistic and less pious view, read this.

  53. 53.

    JordanRules

    November 28, 2013 at 11:54 am

    @Fuzzy: Grocery stores have always been open for limited hours as long as I can remember. Some people can’t plan like others can due to their jobs. Let’s not lose the forest for the trees here. Gift shopping should be put on hold, no disagreement there. I forgot cream and have to hit up a grocery, I do hope they are mostly being worked by volunteers.

  54. 54.

    Jamey

    November 28, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    @gbear: Hmmmm. Both sides’ arguments have merit, and I can TEWTALLY understand how somebody would overlook something as esoteric as pumpkin pie on an obscure holiday like Thanksgiving…

  55. 55.

    ruviana

    November 28, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    @Jane2: Hmmm. The businesses the blogger links to (hospitals? Gas Stations?) have long and traditionally been open on holidays, and as someone who worked in health care for awhile, hospitals are usually on a limited staff then. Volunteers are often asked for. Gas stations are often small businesses. I recognize that what the blogger was citing were either emergency services or services that run 24/7 (TV?).

    But no one needs a giant Wal-Mart sale in the middle of Thanksgiving day, where employees are required to work (“Oh, it’s happy volunteers!”) and the pressure is on the rest of us to abandon the holiday for the far more important job of shopping shopping shopping.

    Sorry, it pisses me off.

  56. 56.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 28, 2013 at 12:07 pm

    @Jane2:

    It’s a question of necessity of vital services vs totally optional.

    Sort of like how invading Germany and Japan was required, but invading Iraq, not so much.

  57. 57.

    dpm (dread pirate mistermix)

    November 28, 2013 at 12:12 pm

    @BGinCHI: Wegmans closes around noon. Don’t know about Tops.

  58. 58.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 28, 2013 at 12:16 pm

    @Cassidy:

    More worried about the hot dog and beer sellers, myself.

  59. 59.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 28, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    @Jane2:

    Retail workers in Toronto may be getting holiday pay today, but down here in the States, many of them are just getting regular straight time with no holiday premium. Depending on their state, they may not even get overtime pay for working 10 hours in one day if they’re scheduled for less than 40 hours for the week.

    As far as US retailers are concerned, Thanksgiving is just another work day, and no extra pay is required. That’s what’s pissing people off here. If all of those Wal-Mart employees were getting time and a half or double time for working today, it wouldn’t be as big a deal. But they’re not.

  60. 60.

    YellowJournalism

    November 28, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    I have no problem with mostly essential services and stores being open for limited hours, like grocery stores, as long as it is by choice and/or paid holiday wages.

    When I first lived up here in Alberta, I was shocked at how Canadian Thanksgiving wasn’t as much a big deal as our US Thanksgiving is. Over the years, more and more stores are open, and the holiday has jut become an excuse for grocery stores to sell more food and advertise with cornucopias and fall leaves. I think it’s still a ways off, but I see US Thanksgiving going in the same direction.

  61. 61.

    Jane2

    November 28, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): The post I cited was written by someone in California, so I can only assume she was referring to California labour law.

  62. 62.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 28, 2013 at 12:28 pm

    @Jane2:

    If we’re going by California law, that means that (for example) the Wal-Mart employees working 10 hours today get a whole 2 hours of overtime pay. Whoop-te-do. Better than most other states, but not really enough to justify making people work on a holiday.

  63. 63.

    Seanly

    November 28, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    The only thing that is going to make me leave the house tomorrow is to take my parents to the airport & to close my last Bank of America account*. The mall & shopping area near Franklin/Milwaukee in Boise is bad enough without it being a holiday weekend.

    Everybody have a Happy Thanksgiving!

    * BofA sold all of their Idaho branches to Washington Federal so we used that as an excuse to switch back to a credit union.

  64. 64.

    Burnspbesq

    November 28, 2013 at 12:43 pm

    @karen:

    Hobby Lobby is closed so that its owners can give thanks that the Supreme Court took their case challenging the contraceptive mandate under the ACA, and so that its employees can pray that the asshole owners lose.

  65. 65.

    Greg

    November 28, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    When I was a young man with small children I counted on being able to work the holidays for overtime so that we could afford Christmas. Nowadays I am not the least bit interested in being with my family or spending time with someone else’s family on Thanksgiving. Instead I visit my kids at times when travel is more pleasant. If stores want to be open they should allow their employees to volunteer to work for overtime. Not everyone attaches some special significance to today and not everybody has family. For some, work is a welcome diversion from having to deal with what would otherwise be a depressing day. I plan on shopping anywhere I want to.

  66. 66.

    Death Panel Truck

    November 28, 2013 at 12:51 pm

    Kmart has always been open on Thanksgiving. My girlfriend (now my wife) and I both worked part time at the store in Yakima when we were going to CWU. We worked every T-Day for years.

  67. 67.

    TooManyJens

    November 28, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    I’ve worked Thanksgiving and Christmas before, at a job where somebody had to monitor the network 24/7. But they paid us double and got some really nice catered food in. They showed us respect. It matters.

  68. 68.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 28, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    Never has this been more important–protest WALMART on BLACK FRIDAY–aka BUY NOTHING DAY

    http://blackfridayprotests.org/

    Find one near you. Wear green. Bring signs.

    Walmart is front and center with a disgusting anti-union campaign and lying around the clock (with tv ads, too) about how they treat their employees. Apparently, they think we’re stupid. They have a website smearing OUR Walmart (which, btw, is not the only group protesting, but it is one of the more visible ones–I think it’s the one linked to the warehouses where working conditions sparked a walkout last year).

    PS: In case you missed it–most of what Walmart has asserted about holiday pay is BULLSHIT. Yes, some states have labor laws that restrict them. But in many states with no such laws they game employees hours so as to pay them as little holiday bonus as possible. They are vile. At least other retailers give you your fucking 8 hours.

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 28, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    @TooManyJens:

    IIRC, when I worked for a crappy call center in the mid-1990s, I had to work Easter Sunday, but we got lunch from El Pollo Loco and we played UNO while we waited for calls. Plus we got paid time and a half for the whole shift.

    It’s not the holiday work per se that annoys me, it’s the companies that have decided that working on a holiday should be treated just like any other workday, with pay to match.

  70. 70.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 28, 2013 at 1:14 pm

    @TooManyJens: Exactly. I worked holidays (but what I remember most was working the 4th) when I worked for a small business but: a) we were treated decent every day, b) we got incentives (ie pay), c) there was no bullshit about extending normal operating hours. We went home on time, d) it was a fucking restaurant, okay? Ppl gotta eat daily (certain holidays we sold a LOT of pizzas), they do not have to buy loss leader electronics.

  71. 71.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 28, 2013 at 1:28 pm

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): And I think it’s also the utter intrusion upon one of the few respites from a brutal holiday retail season. I mean, these people work their tails off from “Back to School” until the day after Christmas. Thanksgiving is their day to be at home with their families.

    It’s not a hospital. It’s not a police or fire station. It’s not a suicide helpline. It’s not a grocery store that opens for a half day for those people who were working Sun-Weds and couldn’t get in. It’s not the convenience store or gas station where a sole proprietor’s made a decision to try to catch some more custom. It’s not a restaurant. (In my experience, most restaurants close but a few do a T-day menu for some very grateful customers–and I would hope that the help is getting paid accordingly for being there.)

    It’s a fucking retailer that’s open 7 days a week. I mean, Walmart’s open overnight. I do shift work… they’re open. I started going but I stopped again because they piss me off so hard with this shit. Fuck them. Internet. Open for business 24/7. There’s not a ton of places left who keep those bankers hours for housewives and bankers that are never open when working people need them. So being open is just bullshit.

    Plus, they force these people to work. Like Macy’s. Aka Federated. They bought up all the dept stores and renamed them “Macy’s”. And brought in a shitty dress code and attitude but no pay. I work with an ex-Macy’s manager who chewed out his superiors his last year there b/c they tried to force their employees to work day after Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve, whereas he let them pick which one they wanted to work. He was pissed because for one thing, they would be overstaffing Xmas Eve for no reason. It’s a little busy, but not much, and dies off fast. Now they force their “associates” in on Thanksgiving. Fuck them with a rusty garden weasel.

    It’s not even for profit, it’s out of desperation. Walmart has weak sales. Macy’s-Federated is weak. JC Penney–actually, also weak. They’ve struggled with a repositioning (but they would have been Sears if they wouldn’t have tried). I like their new stuff but this Thanksgiving stuff is turning me off really fast.

    Smooth move, just piss people off some more and even further ruin your brand. As a gay person I really want to support Penney’s but that ad about shopping after Thanksgiving dinner was highly offensive.

    Some retailers claimed they were trying to prevent the trampling crowds, but they could do that by not offering ridiculous loss leaders that FYIGM slothbrains run for so they can throw up on eBay three hours later. It’s a fucking racket. Supermarkets figured out years ago that “loss leaders” don’t make money but retailers seem determined to never figure this out. Do they really think getting on th elocal news because the town’s biggest assholes camped out in front of them three days early is “good publicity”?

    There’s a big diff between someone doing an eBay run and someone lined up in front of a place (an apple store or a bakery, take your pick) to pay FULL price. Hello.

    /rant

  72. 72.

    jackmac

    November 28, 2013 at 1:45 pm

    Best Buy in my town doesn’t open until 6 p.m. today but idiots were already camped out to grab those 55-inch TVs and other electronics (that will undoubtedly also be on sale at similar prices throughout the season). I’m not only boycotting the greedy retailers that are open today (grocery store is the exception) but also skipping Black Friday. Just wait, Christmas is next. Some desperate retailer will fling open the doors on Christmas afternoon (and make their staff work) just to get the jump on the competition. Like clockwork, other retail lemmings will follow.

  73. 73.

    FridayNext

    November 28, 2013 at 1:53 pm

    So should we be watching football? All the people associated with the three NFL games are also being forced to work aren’t they? The players, coaches etc get paid well, but what about the concessionaires, grounds crews, parking attendants, cleaning crews, etc not to mention all the people it takes to run the broadcasts.

    What about college and high school games?

    I am not try to be too big a troll, I enjoy hating on the big box retailers as much as anyone, but if we are going to boycott companies who deprive low wage workers of a holiday so they can squeeze every last dollar out of the consumer, why not the NFL and all their advertisers, too?

    Is the fact that the NFL is a non-profit make them better somehow?

    Or is it the physical, bricks-and-mortar aspect that we don’t like?

  74. 74.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 28, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    @FridayNext:

    I’m not planning to watch football, but I’m not a football fan. I know the camera operators and other network folks get holiday pay — union rules — so, again, it doesn’t bug me nearly as much as the retailers who make people work for no holiday premium.

  75. 75.

    phoebes-in-santa fe

    November 28, 2013 at 2:15 pm

    I shop at Costco because they know how to treat their employees, who, in turn, give great service to the customers.

    They are closed today, Christmas Day, and New Years Day. And they don’t open up til their regular Friday time tomorrow. Good company to work at…and shop at.

  76. 76.

    Thymezone

    November 28, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Can we cut the crap? Bloomberg reports that one in three US employers have people working on Thanksgiving in one job or another. That one in four or five people in the US will work on Thanksgiving. The vast majority of whom you neither see nor hear.

    Try to find something to bitch about that doesn’t sound like you cut and pasted the latest fad outrage from the internet.

  77. 77.

    Johnnybuck

    November 28, 2013 at 3:24 pm

    @Thymezone: Well I guess the left must fight against the “War on Thanksgiving”.

    Both sides donchaknow

  78. 78.

    Jane2

    November 28, 2013 at 4:51 pm

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): So is the issue pay or family? Or is the issue retail workers, or all workers, including those keeping your internet going today?

  79. 79.

    mai naem

    November 28, 2013 at 5:03 pm

    I don’t do Walmart, but I didn’t realize they weren’t playing overtime today. Are you guys sure about this? This truly sounds unbelievable, even by Walmart standards. The place I work at pays shit in OT for holidays but even they pay extra for Thanksgiving. Bill Maher made a comment on his last show that really rang true with me. He said that holidays were basically becoming another have nots vs. haves because poor people essentially don’t get holidays. I just don’t know why the fuck people have to go shopping on Thanksgiving and I’ve felt like this for years. My opinion – a few grocery stores open till noon, a few pharmacies open for the pharmacy part and a few convenience stores and, beyond that, true emergency services. That is it. BTW, my sister has gotten a few Black Friday electronic items in the past(the limited number stuff) and inevitably they seem to be duds and break down really quickly.

  80. 80.

    KXB

    November 28, 2013 at 5:45 pm

    I’m at my bro’s house near SFO right now. Mom barely takes a break from injecting herself into other people’s conversations. Dad is napping. Nephew & niece on computer. Part of me wishes I was into shopping just to get out of the house. There is a nice downtown area, but most shops are closed.

    I did Black Friday once in college, 20 years ago. That was enough.

  81. 81.

    karen

    November 28, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    @Glocksman:

    I live in Silver Spring, MD so I should apologize for jumping to conclusions. :)

  82. 82.

    karen

    November 28, 2013 at 5:59 pm

    @Thymezone:

    How about the fact that customer’s desperateness has led to people being stomped to death or tasered? For things they don’t even need! We’re not talking about beds or clothes or things you need to survive. It’s for video game consoles, or video games or big screen TVs or ipads or laptops. And the chances that they will get those limited items are next to nothing.

    The WSJ did a study and “Black Friday” sales are not always the cheapest. A lot of times items were found to be cheaper earlier in the year. I can understand that people save up and want to buy things before Christmas but the truth is that the less people buy, the biggest the markdown. “Black Friday” is conditioning and we’re Pavlov’s dogs.

  83. 83.

    JoyfulA

    November 28, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    @BGinCHI: Wegman’s is 24/7 normally but shut down today at 5 pm and will reopen tomorrow at 7 am.

    (And wow, was it crowded yesterday.)

  84. 84.

    Bill D.

    November 28, 2013 at 6:40 pm

    Walmart. Always Lower Morals. Always.

  85. 85.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    November 28, 2013 at 6:49 pm

    @Jane2:

    For me, if you’re going to force people to work on a national holiday, it should be mandatory holiday pay that’s at least time and a half. Either that, or give them the day off. Forcing people to be away from the family on a holiday while paying them regular pay is bullshit.

  86. 86.

    Ruckus

    November 28, 2013 at 7:08 pm

    @FridayNext:
    Pro Football?
    These people know that they will be working on Sundays, Thanksgiving, etc when they get hired. They get paid well. I worked in pro sports for a long time, part time hobby and full time. We worked weekends, we worked holidays when required but we knew the schedule and got paid reasonable.
    Working at crapmart, Best Buy, wherever, they get paid shit, treated like shit and get little to no benefits. Not the same thing at all.

  87. 87.

    g

    November 28, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    Who the fuck shops on Thanksgiving?

  88. 88.

    Ruckus

    November 28, 2013 at 7:20 pm

    I’m with friends today, no family. Primarily because most of the family is gone and I have no desire to visit the one left.
    Yes the idea that we all should have at least 2 days off a year is unreasonable. There are jobs that are required 24/7, there are jobs that are there to entertain those not working at a particular time or day. But those jobs that really are only there to make some rich cocksucker richer and everyone else poorer aren’t necessary. But think about it a different way, when you really don’t have much disposable money but would like to have some type of life other than being a monk, finding cheap crap for less is what you do. Maybe, just maybe it isn’t always about us.

  89. 89.

    Talentless Hack

    November 28, 2013 at 7:25 pm

    Somebody is going to break the Thursday barrier, soon, and start their sale on Wednesday night. I’ll be looking forward to that. I might even participate. That will be the end of this insanity, once and for all.

  90. 90.

    Bill D.

    November 28, 2013 at 7:35 pm

    It’s remarkable all the Black Friday promotional crap I’ve gotten via various media. It’s as if most retailers, whether b&m or online, think that “Black Friday” is a magical invocation that will get us all eagerly shopping on the uncritical assumption that whatever we’re seeing are the best prices, ever.

  91. 91.

    Gromit

    November 29, 2013 at 1:40 am

    I, being of low morals and lacking empathy for my fellow man, popped into Toys R Us tonight to grab a few Christmas gifts for my boys and their cousin, and I was less shocked by the exploitation of it all — the nice woman helping me said it was her first day, so clearly they had hired seasonal help — and more shocked by how they were fleecing the shoppers. Prices on the non-promotional items I looked at were easily 10 – 15% higher than TRU’s regular high prices, and far above the regular prices at other stores. What time I didn’t spend combing the store for the handful of sale items I wanted, I spent steering bewildered parents away from bad deals.

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