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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Rivalry Weekend NCAA Football Saturday Open Thread

Rivalry Weekend NCAA Football Saturday Open Thread

by Betty Cracker|  November 30, 201310:47 am| 115 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Sports, Sweet Fancy Moses!

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Some great football on tap today: Ohio State vs. Michigan. Duke vs. North Carolina. Georgia vs. Georgia Tech. Notre Dame vs. Stanford. Clemson vs. South Carolina. Texas A&M vs. Missouri. And of course, Alabama vs. Auburn.

Then there are my truly awful 4-7 Florida Gators — the first UF team to fail to make it to a bowl since 1990, a squad just coming off its first loss to an FCS opponent last week — vs. our archrival, unbeaten #2 Florida State. The Gators are a 27-point underdog. Which seems kind of generous.

Will the Gators take all the disappointment, disrespect and negativity as inspiration and pull off the most stunning upset of the year? Almost certainly not, but that possibility will keep me watching.

I think Ohio State will handle Michigan and Duke will prevail against NC. Georgia will triumph over Georgia Tech, and Mizzou will beat Texas A&M. The ‘Cocks will crow after downing Clemson, and Alabama will win in a squeaker over Auburn.

What are y’all watching today? Any predictions? Oh, and feel free to slag on my Gators all you want, of course; just remember that what goes around comes around.

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Reader Interactions

115Comments

  1. 1.

    Chickamin Slam

    November 30, 2013 at 10:51 am

    Don’t worry … with the right recruits and an inspired coach at 6-6 in a year or two the Gators can swagger into the post season with a berth in the Pina Colada or Barcalounger Bowl.

  2. 2.

    Aji

    November 30, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Being a Michigan State alum, I can’t find it in me to get exercised about either OSU or U of M. Back when I was there, we had bumper stickers that said “My favorite team is MSU and whoever beats [insert either ‘Michigan’ or ‘Ohio State’ here].” Kind of equal-opportunity enemies.

    That said, I’m rooting for your Gators today, Betty. Yeah, I’m a masochist that way.

  3. 3.

    Felonius Monk

    November 30, 2013 at 10:53 am

    Go Buckeyes!

    feel free to slag on my Gators

    I think not — only an idiot fucks around with a Gator (reptile or human).

  4. 4.

    ET

    November 30, 2013 at 10:56 am

    ROLL TIDE ROLL!

    Ok back to work.

  5. 5.

    cmorenc

    November 30, 2013 at 10:58 am

    Regarding Duke v UNC, even though the two schools are only six miles apart, their respective student compositions and cultures are light-years apart. Duke might be physically located in the heart of North Carolina, but it is quite deliberately NOT otherwise a North Carolina school; when my daughter (from Raleigh) toured the campus her senior high school year and met with an admissions counselor, she asked how being a relative local might factor into her application. The counselor replied: “well, in fact we have a maximum quota of accepting not more than 18% of our student body from North and South Carolina combined…we want to be a national school” (the counselor didn’t say “quasi-Ivy league”, but she didn’t have to)…and we also got the clear implication from her comments to us and the group that the Administration and Admissions office wouldn’t be at all unhappy if they could attract the quality students they wanted with a percentage of local NC/SC students a lot lower than 18%. Wander around the Duke campus, and you won’t hear very many southern accents.

    My daughter ended up going to Davidson, and being a lot happier and more successful there (she got accepted to medical school just fine without going to Duke). However, when her sophomore year Duke played Davidson in basketball at Duke over a school break, and we went to the game, the Duke student section taunted the Davidson team with “SAFETY SCHOOL…SAFETY SCHOOL”.

  6. 6.

    Geoduck

    November 30, 2013 at 11:00 am

    The Washington Huskies won the Apple Cup against the Washington State Cougars yesterday, so I have nothing urgent on tap. (8-4 on the season, after having to play both Oregon and Stanford! Progress, after those years in the wilderness!)

    Also, it was cool to see Oregon State almost pull off the upset over Oregon in the Civil War.

  7. 7.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 30, 2013 at 11:06 am

    @Geoduck:

    The Fighting Fashion Nightmares are falling apart at the seams of their Nike prototype apparel. Whatever bowl gets them might see them melt away in the process. I don’t know what is going on inside that palace of a football complex of theirs, but something is up that isn’t getting out (or being reported on by the local fawning media) to explain why they’ve suddenly been de-juggernautized.

  8. 8.

    Schlemizel

    November 30, 2013 at 11:16 am

    Gopher women take on Princeton at 4 this afternoon. After their first lose in nearly 2 years 2 weekends ago the Gophers extend their NCAA record road win streak and started a new unbeaten steak last weekend. though anyone going 62-0-0 again does not seem possible. Hell, they even made Sport Center once, not sure any womens team not squeaking up and down a hardwood floor has ever done that.

  9. 9.

    geg6

    November 30, 2013 at 11:17 am

    I’ll be watching “Catching Fire” and then the Penguins.

  10. 10.

    The Dangerman

    November 30, 2013 at 11:21 am

    Auburn/Bama should be a barn burner. Literally.

    I can’t lose with my undergrad Alma Mater tonight. Bruins win, all is right with the world; Trojans win and they might give the job to their interim, which would be a monstrous mistake. Could they really be that dumb (rhetorical question)?

    ETA: This Bruin speaks from experience: UCLA had an interim catch lightning in a bottle and get the job, Steve Lavin. Still haven’t fully recovered.

  11. 11.

    Keith P

    November 30, 2013 at 11:24 am

    God doesn’t love me enough for Auburn to beat ‘Bama AND FSU to get upset by Florida.

  12. 12.

    Jewish Steel

    November 30, 2013 at 11:28 am

    I can’t say whether Ted Rall’s depiction of Obama is racist or not. I think it’s inept, but it seems unlikely that his goal was to depict the president as an ape.

    I also associate “CENSORSHIP” with government power and not so much with Daily Kos diaries. Curious to see how this is resolved.

  13. 13.

    MikeJ

    November 30, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Cardiff has 20 minutes left to deny Arsenal the win.

  14. 14.

    PeakVT

    November 30, 2013 at 11:29 am

    It would be nice if the Hokies pound the Cavs, but I just don’t care that much any more. Maybe I’ll look at the score later.

  15. 15.

    FridayNext

    November 30, 2013 at 11:37 am

    While at UF I watched faculty laid off, departments close, accreditation threatened, and millions lavished on football, basketball, and ever more creative places to employee high-paid deans, assistant deans, and co-deans.

    This is what all those sacrifices were for? Seriously?

    But at least it built character in all those athletes, right?

    In 15 years I predict UF will be a medical school, a football team, and 55 deans all with lavish salaries, free houses, (the president will have two, btw, one for living and one for entertaining) and company cars.

  16. 16.

    Betty Cracker

    November 30, 2013 at 11:39 am

    @Jewish Steel: I think he’s merely a bad cartoonist, but he’s probably self-aware enough to realize how it might be perceived and to hope to profit from any resulting controversy. I’ve thought Rall was beneath contempt for well over a decade now. A self-important, no-talent putz of the lowest order.

  17. 17.

    lockewasright

    November 30, 2013 at 11:41 am

    O-H

  18. 18.

    MikeJ

    November 30, 2013 at 11:46 am

    The the Arse puts it out of reach. A sad day for fans of Torchwood.

  19. 19.

    Thlayli

    November 30, 2013 at 11:48 am

    Just to clarify: the Gators did not play in a bowl in 1990 because they were on probation. They actually won the SEC that year, Spurrier’s first (I think) season.

    This is the first time they’ve not qualified on merit since 1979.

  20. 20.

    Jewish Steel

    November 30, 2013 at 11:53 am

    @Betty Cracker: I’m not that familiar with him, but if you’ve been following him for that long I’ll take your word for it.

    The C word kind of smelled like “First Amendment!” when I read it.

  21. 21.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 11:57 am

    @Schlemizel: Looking forward to a second week of pounding on the Ivy League. See you there!

  22. 22.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 11:59 am

    Meanwhile, in lesser sports, Michigan State’s football team is going to stomp on the worst 8-3 team in the country.

  23. 23.

    Irony Abounds

    November 30, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Can’t forget Arizona vs. Tempe Normal. The winner gets the Territorial Cup, the oldest trophy for football in the country. It’s a game of good versus evil, Cute angelic Wildcats versus hideous Scum Devils. Also feature Ka’Deem Carey, best running back in the nation. Bear Down and beat the Scummies!

  24. 24.

    Looking for a Canadian (fka wini)

    November 30, 2013 at 12:03 pm

    Gopher football. Here we go. (Proud long-time season ticket holder.)

  25. 25.

    debbie

    November 30, 2013 at 12:05 pm

    I have the whole city to myself when the OSU-UM game is on. Time for errands!

  26. 26.

    GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)

    November 30, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    @Jewish Steel:

    A shitty artist and firebagger as well. Have Ted Rall and Timmeh ever posted on the same thread in B-J?

    It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

  27. 27.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 12:09 pm

    @Looking for a Canadian (fka wini): You must be the sort that roots for the gazelle in the documentary about lions.

  28. 28.

    Cassidy

    November 30, 2013 at 12:13 pm

    @Jewish Steel: Even if he didn’t intend to draw a simian-like caricature, he didn’t exactly shy away from other bigoted tropes.

  29. 29.

    Yatsuno

    November 30, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    @Jewish Steel: He of course takes the wrong lesson from this. He’s just not a very good artist. Actually the point he was trying to make is rather interesting, but he just doesn’t have the talent to pull it off. Plus oppression is the favoured cry of most hacks.

  30. 30.

    Jewish Steel

    November 30, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    @GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): On those rare occasions I hit up the old GOS I only read the comics there to remind myself how hamfisted and unfunny political humor can get.

  31. 31.

    KG

    November 30, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    I’m waiting on the Territorial Cup, ASU with a chance to host the PAC-12 championship game.

    Weird thing, I was looking at the BCS standings last night, and realized that 5 of the top 12 school will lose either this week or next week, because they’re playing each other

  32. 32.

    JordanRules

    November 30, 2013 at 12:20 pm

    @Irony Abounds: Fork ’em!!! Go Devils!
    Hell of a back Carey is. Should be a good one.

  33. 33.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 12:21 pm

    Spartans 7, Thirteen-Striped Ground Squirrels 0

  34. 34.

    Amir Khalid

    November 30, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    @Jewish Steel:
    I don’t see anything particularly ape-like about Ted Rall’s depiction of President Obama. All I see it that it doesn’t come within ten miles of resembling Obama. (And that, like the rest of Rall’s art, it’s painful to look at.)

  35. 35.

    JPL

    November 30, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    @Jewish Steel: It simply amazes me that is how he sees the President. As Yatsuno mentioned, he’s not a great artist, anyhow.

    My upset pick of the day is Tech over GA. Florida might (haha) keep it close but they won’t win.

  36. 36.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    My Michigan fandom departed with my long lost youth but I wouldn’t mind seeing them upend the Fuckeyes. Urban Meyer and OSU is very similar to Dave Hakstol and the University of North Dakota: a match made in hell that serves the function of concentrating as much of the world’s evil in one place and hopefully giving the rest of us a break.

  37. 37.

    MC Simon Milligan

    November 30, 2013 at 12:24 pm

    All right Gunners. Now to see if Die Königsblauen can find their asses with both hands and a GPS unit.

  38. 38.

    Schlemizel

    November 30, 2013 at 12:26 pm

    @Looking for a Canadian (fka wini):

    You have my deepest sympathy. I love the Gophers but not so much that it blinds me to the reality that is their football program. It will be amazing if they are within 3TDs of MSU by the end.

    I comfort myself with the immoral words of Bear Bryant, “90% of football teams abide by the NCAA regulations. The other 10% get to go to bowl games.”

  39. 39.

    Looking for a Canadian (fka wini)

    November 30, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    Not in need of sympathy, but thanks!

  40. 40.

    KG

    November 30, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    @Schlemizel: since close to half the teams now go to bowl games, that should be updated… 90% of teams abide by NCAA regulations, the other 10% play in the SEC

  41. 41.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    @Schlemizel: I think he’s the sort who cheerfully roots for the gazelle.

  42. 42.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 12:34 pm

    @KG: With the last round of expansion, I think it’s now 15% of FBS teams that play in the SEC. So, other than Vanderbilt, who are you thinking isn’t cheating?

  43. 43.

    Steeplejack

    November 30, 2013 at 12:35 pm

    @MikeJ:

    Rarely have I seen “deny the win” go to “complete rout” so quickly.

  44. 44.

    KG

    November 30, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): well, if Kentucky is cheating, they’re not doing a very good job

  45. 45.

    Yatsuno

    November 30, 2013 at 12:36 pm

    @Geoduck: The Cougs finishing at 6-6 is huge for us. I would have liked the Apple Cup sure but a .500 season is pretty nice to end with. Cap it off with a no-name bowl and a nice free trip for the band kids and I’ll call the season a success. And the vast majority of the offence is coming back, though I’d kill to keep Furney one more year.

  46. 46.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    @KG: It’s Kentucky. Why assume competence?

  47. 47.

    KG

    November 30, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    @KG: also too, a few FCS teams have made the jump, so it might still be pretty close to 10%

  48. 48.

    KG

    November 30, 2013 at 12:39 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): because they tend to do it right in basketball

  49. 49.

    Betty Cracker

    November 30, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    Bullshit officiating! That was intentional grounding!

  50. 50.

    KG

    November 30, 2013 at 12:40 pm

    @Yatsuno: this has been a great year in the PAC-12, shame that they played themselves out of the title game, but an incredible year nonetheless

  51. 51.

    Violet

    November 30, 2013 at 12:44 pm

    @KG: When I was a kid, getting to a bowl game seemed to be a big deal for football teams. Not everyone got to play in one. Now it seems like there are so many bowl games, if you don’t get to go to the Fried Chicken Bowl then you’ll probably get to go to the Hamburger Bowl. Seems like they go on forever and a day. It’s like one of those trophies for participation. Good for you! You participated! You get to go to a bowl game!

  52. 52.

    ruemara

    November 30, 2013 at 12:47 pm

    @Jewish Steel: He’s a bad modeler of the human figure, and I don’t think he intended to be ape-like, but the comments on his page are hilarious in their self important purity of condemnation of the “obamabots” of Daily Kos and DU and the censorship of Rall. Idiots. And I love the derision they treat someone addressing the controversy from an AA perspective. Nice.

    @Yatsuno: It’s funny how his point is also an overly simplified blame game, at least on the ACA section.

  53. 53.

    Mark S.

    November 30, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    @Jewish Steel:

    What I found the most shocking is there have apparently been people (though not Daily Kos) who have paid Rall actual money for his horrible comics.

  54. 54.

    piratedan

    November 30, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    @KG: I totally expect that ASU will shut down the Wildcat running game and force Denker to beat them thru the air, which I expect will not happen. Then again, no one expected the Cats to knock off the Ducks, but they’re playing in Tempe, so I don’t expect that the Devils will be caught napping. While the gridiron Cats are a mild surprise, the hoops team looks special this year.

  55. 55.

    Geoduck

    November 30, 2013 at 12:54 pm

    Another thing to remember about Rall is that at least half of his schtick is pissing people off by chucking artistic hand-grenades. Do have to give the man credit for his work on Central Asia- he’s done the scut-work of taking extended trips through the region, and not just parachuting into the local armored hotel for a couple days, which is what most reporters would do, at best. Even if you hate his typical cartoons, the books he’s written on the subject are worth reading.

  56. 56.

    Yatsuno

    November 30, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    @KG: The Pac-12 does that though. There is no uneven talent like you get in the SEC where teams just dominate and recruit by any means necessary. Recruiting to Pullman is HARD. It’s a tiny town in the middle of nowhere that just happens to be home to the land grant university for Washington. Yet the coaches do it, and having a name like Leach and selling kids on playtime sooner rather than later helps. But even with all that Wazzu wins some they shouldn’t. It’s true all over the Pac-12.

    I will, however, savour beating the University of Spoiled Children. In South Central.

  57. 57.

    ? Martin

    November 30, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    @Jewish Steel:

    I can’t say whether Ted Rall’s depiction of Obama is racist or not. I think it’s inept, but it seems unlikely that his goal was to depict the president as an ape.

    I also associate “CENSORSHIP” with government power and not so much with Daily Kos diaries. Curious to see how this is resolved.

    Take it as a public service, illustrating that GOS is still bonkers.

  58. 58.

    KG

    November 30, 2013 at 12:59 pm

    @Violet: I like all the bowl games, personally. Gives teams that might not otherwise get a game on national tv some exposure. Also gives more teams something to play for

    @piratedan: I’m rooting for the Devils, and suspect they’ll win. But it’s been a strange run in the series, last four games won by the road team, all very close… So the two touchdown spread is interesting

  59. 59.

    Keith P

    November 30, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    Damn, looks like I need to go watch the Michigan-OSU game. Michigan + Auburn winning is very good for Auburn, it looks like a shootout, AND a major fight broke out (helmet off!)

  60. 60.

    KG

    November 30, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    @Keith P: I’m not going to lie, my nightmare scenario is Auburn winning close today, and then FSU and OSU losing their respective championship games while Auburn wins the SEC, setting up an Iron Bowl rematch for the title.

  61. 61.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Field goal for the Golden Rodents. We’re within four!

  62. 62.

    Bill E Pilgrim

    November 30, 2013 at 1:12 pm

    This statement by Rall is patently false:

    Given the reflexive pro-Obama/pro-DNC politics of the blog and its owner, it was probably inevitable that they’d do this

    Dan Perkins who draws This Modern World housed at GOS now skewers President Obama mercilessly, he has a regular feature in which Obama is “Middle Man”, desperately trying to find middle ground by compromising with the Republicans and having his posterior handed to him by them over and over.

    I actually agree with the portrayal up to a point, by that I mean a point in time. Recently, Obama seems to have gotten that he was being had and decided to actually fight back. Yeah yeah, flame away if you want, that’s what I think.

    Anyway the point is that the comments to these cartoons run at least half in agreement with the cartoonist, DKOS is definitely divided and not at all solid Obot, and Kos has been extremely critical. So, comic refused for being critical of Obama, sorry, calling BS on that one.

    Re the decision, I think the cartoon is mostly just incredibly inept. I thought it was supposed to be Gerald Ford as a gorilla at first glance. Missed Obama by a million miles.

  63. 63.

    DesertFriar

    November 30, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    Football when there is hockey?

    #4 Providence College take on Brown in the 28th annual Mayor’s Cup!

    Then tomorrow in NCAA Men’s Basketball, the Friars takes on the best team that money can buy.

  64. 64.

    Keith P

    November 30, 2013 at 1:16 pm

    @KG: Iron Bowl rematch for the BCS title would be HUGE. I’m pulling for the title to stay in Alabama period, but better if it’s Auburn (I’m from Alabama). 2010 (Cam’s year) was pretty damn sweet, but after last year, I want them to have another title, even though this season’s turnaround has been satisfying enough.

  65. 65.

    Looking for a Canadian (fka wini)

    November 30, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    Boom! Back atcha.

  66. 66.

    Yatsuno

    November 30, 2013 at 1:18 pm

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    I actually agree with the portrayal up to a point, by that I mean a point in time. Recently, Obama seems to have gotten that he was being had and decided to actually fight back. Yeah yeah, flame away if you want, that’s what I think.

    I think Obama honestly thought that him being President would work the same as him being a Senator: that compromise and comity would rule the day. He would have to be psychic to foresee the unprecedented levels of obstructionism hurled at him. Maybe he should have known better by late 2010, but at least now he’s taking steps to fight against it. It did take him too long to figure this out however.

  67. 67.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    @DesertFriar: In my world Providence is 6-10-0 and way out of the rankings but I’m rooting for them to beat Brown anyway.

  68. 68.

    tybee

    November 30, 2013 at 1:23 pm

    free shoes, war eagle and oh how i hate ohio state

  69. 69.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 1:26 pm

    @Yatsuno: I think there’s two things involved:

    a) Obama is, by nature and to an almost pathological level, a compromiser rather than a confrontationalist. Anyone who expected the first black president to be anything else was deluded;

    b) Even given that I’m not sure that being a compromiser was really the wrong choice. I don’t think he would have gotten anything more done with a different approach and so what the correct way to operate is depends entirely upon how you think the American electorate will react to your methods. Given that, I’m skeptical that more confrontation would have served us well. I’m not convinced, mind you but I think the case is both open and ultimately unresolveable.

  70. 70.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 1:42 pm

    Damn. OSU tied it up.

  71. 71.

    Pogonip

    November 30, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    @FridayNext: And then he’ll issue a statement: “Let them eat cake.”

  72. 72.

    Yatsuno

    November 30, 2013 at 1:50 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): But…but…BULLY PULPIT!!! If he REALLY wanted to do these things he would fight for them! Sure he’d end up with nothing, but at least he wouldn’t be a sellout! WORSE THAN BUSH! IMPEACH NAOW!!!

  73. 73.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 30, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    @ruemara: Yeah, I mean he’s clearly pissed, as artists tend to be b/c they take it all personally, and I can see his point about not being down with editorial control when he’s doing it for free. But OTOH, his depiction of Obama is so terrible as to be distracting, so, ya know, you first Ted Rall. And the comments to the post… ugh. Cesspool.

  74. 74.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 30, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): I think that’s right. I think the first major factor is the reluctance of Democrats to get and stay on board with the Obama agenda. We saw that with Clinton, too, but with him it could always be said that he never won a majority, while Obama has done that twice. But Obama has had to expend a lot of energy keeping his own side together, and I don’t think he anticipated that.

    And another factor has been that the economic climate took a sharp downward turn very late in the 2008 campaign, meaning that no one campaigned on “how to jump-start the economy,” meaning that one of the first chits Obama had to call in was the Stimulus.

    So IMHO at no point has he been able to say, as I think had been The Big Plan, “the American people demand better, and I am their vessel, so get on board or get out of the way.” The “compromise” idea is supposed to work against the backdrop of agreement that there is a major problem but disagreement about means and methods, so let’s get everyone around the table and hammer out a strategy for incremental but tangible improvement. It’s not “compromise is the highest good,” but “compromises get shit done.”

    That hasn’t worked as well as it should in theory because there has all along been a massive, concerted effort by Republicans and their media enablers to harden disagreements into intractability and to refuse to admit that problems are problems.

    But, by and large, I agree that the coping strategy has paid off more than a confrontational one would have. The confrontational strategy would supposedly have done more to please “the base,” but as we’ve seen since pretty much day one, the same people who say they crave confrontation are also prone to saying that confrontations weren’t done right somehow. (see for instance the rage in the blogosphere when it seemed like the DADT repeal was going to fail: the measure was attached to a key vote in classic hardball style, and the vote didn’t pass, and the reaction was not “at least they fought tough,” it was “they blew it again!”)

    So in my view, a confrontational strategy would have displeased the people who say they wanted it, and also would have displeased the people who want solutions and compromises, and the outcome would have been disastrous across the board.

  75. 75.

    James E. Powell

    November 30, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    I don’t think he would have gotten anything more done with a different approach and so what the correct way to operate is depends entirely upon how you think the American electorate will react to your methods.

    Despite your anti-Buckeye ways, I agree with you. I do wonder how Obama and the entire executive branch missed the fact that they had to win the midterms to be successful.

    I put more of the onus for how things turned out on the congressional Democrats. They missed an historic opportunity because they were focused on their short term interests. The Democrats needed to start the 111th congress with pitchforks and torches, with twice the investigations that Republicans launched against the Clintons, with an agenda to expose the Republicans as the tools of evil that they are. Then Obama could have played the healer that the country wants him to be and that he wants to be.

    Instead the “leaders” stayed true to their corporate sponsors.

  76. 76.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 2:01 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: I also think that there are a lot of people who mistakenly believe that they are the base of the Democratic Party. Sorry, guys, but the real party base is black people and they seem pretty happy with this president.

  77. 77.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 30, 2013 at 2:02 pm

    @Yatsuno: I’ve said all along that what the people who say they want more of a fight actually want is to fight AND WIN. They don’t actually give any credit for fighting hard and losing, and they refuse to acknowledge that fighting hard and losing is massively detrimental to “political capital.” If you fight hard on something important and lose, it often happens that the thing you were fighting hard for becomes toxic, tainted by association with the high-profile loss. So sometimes the choice isn’t really between fighting hard and meekly compromising–it’s between a disappointing compromise and jack squat on that issue for a decade or more.

  78. 78.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 30, 2013 at 2:07 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): IOW, liberals are not the base of the Democratic Party. Liberals vote for Democrats, sure, and they’re part of the coalition. Which is great! But all over the map, the people who volunteer and do phone banks and staff tents at community events and stuff like that _aren’t_ uniformly liberal. (This, BTW, is a big part of why I haven’t gotten involved in local Democratic politics here. The local Democrats can’t even be presumed to support Nancy Pelosi! I mean, seriously.)

  79. 79.

    James E. Powell

    November 30, 2013 at 2:13 pm

    So sometimes the choice isn’t really between fighting hard and meekly compromising–it’s between a disappointing compromise and jack squat on that issue for a decade or more.

    There is a Left/Right difference on this, no?

    We are told to accept all manner of compromises or our cause is set back for a decade or more. But the right-wingers lose big on privatizing social security and they are right back at it three years later. No defeat on abortion has ever prevented the anti-abortion forces from fighting. Same with suppressing voters.

    Why should we stop fighting?

  80. 80.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    Fumble!

    I can’t believe the Gophers are still in this game.

  81. 81.

    FlipYrWhig

    November 30, 2013 at 2:24 pm

    @James E. Powell: Agitating on important issues should happen pretty much always. But I think there needs to be more awareness that a lot of Democratic politicians are scaredy-cats looking for ways _not_ to do dramatic things, so a half-measure while the iron is hot might be the better option. Then ramp up the energy again and go back to it. You’re right that the right appears to be more able to renew the energy of its foot soldiers. My pop-psych view on that is that liberals tend towards despair and conservatives towards rage.

  82. 82.

    Pogonip

    November 30, 2013 at 2:26 pm

    Does anyone else here actually live in one of these college-football-idolatry areas? I do. I have no interest in football; I’m surprised they allow me to live here. I don’t normally pay much attention, but today the neighbors are more excited than usual. May the point spread favor them.

    After reading that book about the pros, I’ m glad my kid never wanted to play. He’s big enough, but since we’re a non-football family, he never caught the bug.

  83. 83.

    Pogonip

    November 30, 2013 at 2:28 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: And we moderates tend toward bemusement.

  84. 84.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    @James E. Powell:

    Why should we stop fighting?

    Because our coalition is very different than theirs is. Go look at the polling data: the overwhelming percentage of the voters Democrats count on to win elections say that they want compromise. This is one of the reasons why I keep arguing that the people who insist on fighting are not the base of the party; they simply don’t represent the positions or inclinations of enough of the party’s supporters.

  85. 85.

    ruemara

    November 30, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    @James E. Powell:

    I do wonder how Obama and the entire executive branch missed the fact that they had to win the midterms to be successful.

    “they” didn’t. Obama was out there going hoarse trying to drum up voter enthusiasm. Minorities didn’t turn out, young people didn’t turn out and 90% of all liberal media repeated the “disappointed” trope that Obama wasn’t Malik Shabazz Second Coming of Militant Negroid Chomsky. I worked that election because any opportunity to stick it to Republicans is a joy to me. The fist of fury at the stupid apathy and repetition of every stupid daily kos/du dumbing down on how government works-it took divine grace not to hit people.

  86. 86.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 30, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Rall’s depiction of Obama seems to rely on a giant nose. And that draws on racist depictions of Blacks in the West. “Everyone is a caricature” was no excuse for Uderzo and Goscinny (Asterix) or Osamu Tezuka (Astroboy). The latter, btw, drew heavily from the Francophone tradition that the former two were a part of.

    Obama has a long face and big ears, like Grandad, not a particularly big nose anyway, although he does have those big cheek muscle attachments (for a big smile) rather than a really pointy bridge, as if pointy bridges are the be all and end all of noses. (they are if you’re a goddamn racist, but anyway)

    The only way you could tell that was Obama in the cartoon was to be told so. I was trying to think who he reminded me of and my first guess was LBJ. That dude had a giant nose. And little hair.

  87. 87.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 30, 2013 at 2:38 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): And especially not the donors.

    But, yeah, fighting like Ted Cruz and losing only wins you points with nutty angry authoritarian dead enders like the TP rump, not with Democratic voters.

    Even the dead-ender lefties won’t be impressed because you lost… I mean, did Stalin ever lose like a losing loser? No, he death panel gulaged his enemies! More proof that Obama is weak!

  88. 88.

    Another Holocene Human

    November 30, 2013 at 2:40 pm

    @James E. Powell: Because the arrow of time prefers destruction over creation, disorder over order.

    The agents of chaos will always have an entropic wind gently ever at their backs.

  89. 89.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 2:43 pm

    @Another Holocene Human:

    And especially not the donors.

    And there’s this. One of the inherent weaknesses of the Democratic coalition is that, unlike on the other side of aisle, there are serious ideological differences between the activists and the donors. And unfortunately, in modern politics you can’t just alienate your donors. You need both groups, which leads the Democrats into all sorts of waffly compromises.

    We need some billionaire socialists. Where’s Freidrich Engels when you need him?

  90. 90.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Gophers are toast now. Looks like Michigan is, too. UNC is the only upset hope left.

  91. 91.

    PsiFighter37

    November 30, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    Just unsubscribed from DCCC and DNC emails. That felt good – I feel like they send me multiple fundraising requests EVERY.SINGLE.DAY. I can’t contribute because of compliance rules to start with, and I cannot stand getting these emails every day. Heck, even if I could, I’d be pretty annoyed as a grassroots member of the party.

    My old college email gets all sorts of random email – from DFA, Harry Reid, Beau Biden (how the heck did I end up on his email list), etc…unbelievable how this information just gets sold along with no second thoughts about how people *might* react to their email being given away. It should be an opt-in for those on the email list, not opt-out.

  92. 92.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    November 30, 2013 at 3:05 pm

    @The Dangerman:

    UCLA had an interim catch lightning in a bottle and get the job, Steve Lavin.

    Those are the years when we didn’t have a basketball coach.

    Oh, and Betty, we do play football in the second largest city in the country. I know it’s late for you all east coasters but there’s a big game here tonight at 5pm PST. Go Bruins!

    Hey Dangerman, what year did you graduate? I’m class of 82.

  93. 93.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    November 30, 2013 at 3:07 pm

    God I can’t get away because I am so glued to the Ohio St-Michigan game, very entertaining game. Gotta give the Wolvrines some credit, they have not laid down to the Urban Mayer hype.

  94. 94.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    November 30, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Woah! WE have a tie in Ann Arbor. Maybe Michigan isn’t toast.

  95. 95.

    gwangung

    November 30, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    I also think that there are a lot of people who mistakenly believe that they are the base of the Democratic Party. Sorry, guys, but the real party base is black people and they seem pretty happy with this president.

    So, why AREN’T blacks considered the base? By behavior, they certainly qualify, most particularly in doing nuts and bolts of organizing. At best, they seem to be considered a minor part of the base, at worst, a special interest group that can safely be ignored….

  96. 96.

    The Dangerman

    November 30, 2013 at 3:25 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA:

    Hey Dangerman, what year did you graduate? I’m class of 82.

    84 here; I was a Boelter rat (and a gym rat; loved playing pickup in Pauley before the Wooden Center opened).

  97. 97.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    November 30, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    @The Dangerman: I spent a good deal of time in Beolter, my major had me on both sides of campus.

  98. 98.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    November 30, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    Thank You Ghost of Woody!!!!

  99. 99.

    raven

    November 30, 2013 at 3:41 pm

    Hated to leave the beach but go DAWGS!

  100. 100.

    JPL

    November 30, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    @raven: My son and his S.O are at the game.

  101. 101.

    Yatsuno

    November 30, 2013 at 3:57 pm

    @BillinGlendaleCA: @The Dangerman: Please to be beating the Boys of Troy to within an inch of their lives. If Wazzu can do it da Broonz can.

  102. 102.

    lockewasright

    November 30, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    And the nation’s longest win streak continues.

    C’mon Auburn!

  103. 103.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    November 30, 2013 at 4:05 pm

    @Yatsuno: I’m wearing my Blue and Gold, though I may miss part of the game since it phone upgrade day.

    ETA: Watching Disrupt, good Karen’s wearing blue.

  104. 104.

    Keith P

    November 30, 2013 at 4:13 pm

    Damn, the Iron Bowl has started off sloppy as hell. But at least the Tigers’ running game is starting to kick in.

  105. 105.

    burnspbesq

    November 30, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    @Yatsuno:

    I will, however, savour beating the University of Spoiled Children.

    Not sure why you would think that might happen during your remaining natural life.

  106. 106.

    burnspbesq

    November 30, 2013 at 4:22 pm

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    UNC is the only upset hope left.

    You can’t possibly imagine how much I enjoyed reading that.

    And now for something completely different.

    PICKED OFF!!!

  107. 107.

    Betty Cracker

    November 30, 2013 at 5:09 pm

    @burnspbesq: Can Duke beat FSU next week? I hope so.

    Rammer Jammer
    Yellowhammer
    Give ’em hell
    Alabammer

  108. 108.

    JPL

    November 30, 2013 at 5:11 pm

    @Betty Cracker: hahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahah

  109. 109.

    JPL

    November 30, 2013 at 5:13 pm

    @Betty Cracker: you could put up an iron bowl or ga/tech post.. I haven’t glanced at the snowden post cuz ………………………………..

  110. 110.

    Comrade Jake

    November 30, 2013 at 5:34 pm

    Go To Hell Carolina!!!!!!

  111. 111.

    burnspbesq

    November 30, 2013 at 5:48 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Can Duke beat FSU next week? I hope so

    I advise careful management of expectations. Free Shoes U is awfully good. Still, Duke is playing with house money, and they are the best team in the FBS in fourth quarter scoring margin. I can tell you that the sentiment around Duke will be “well, why the fuck not?”

  112. 112.

    James E. Powell

    November 30, 2013 at 6:07 pm

    We need an afternoon/evening Rivalry Weekend thread.

  113. 113.

    Betty Cracker

    November 30, 2013 at 6:17 pm

    @James E. Powell: Done.

  114. 114.

    Keith P

    November 30, 2013 at 7:14 pm

    This Iron Bowl is just epic. Maybe not Auburn-Georgia good (there’s still time left), but it’s a friggin’ awesome game.

  115. 115.

    Keith P

    November 30, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    Oh….my…GOD!!!!! Auburn with maybe an even more amazing win than against Georgia!!! What an unbelievable season.

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