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You are here: Home / Economics / Austerity Bombing / Late Night Horror Show: ALEC and the ‘Convention of States’

Late Night Horror Show: ALEC and the ‘Convention of States’

by Anne Laurie|  December 5, 20132:40 am| 61 Comments

This post is in: Austerity Bombing, C.R.E.A.M., Republican Venality, Assholes, Outrage

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gop helps the unemployed toles
(Tom Toles via GoComics.com)

I’m sure Kay will have more to say about this, but here’s early warning on the latest attempt to fully convert America into a Banana Republican paradise. Reports WaPo‘s wild-eyed progressocommiesocialist Dana Milbank:

… This week in Washington is the annual “policy summit” of the American Legislative Exchange Council, a powerful, secretive organization funded by the Koch Brothers and other corporate interests that is famous for drafting conservative legislation that Republican state legislatures adopt down to the last semicolon. And the news media were invited to attend!

I descended the escalators at the Grand Hyatt downtown, two floors below street level, excited by the possibilities listed on the ALEC agenda:

The environment and energy task force, led by private-sector American Electric Power. The tax and fiscal policy task force, headed by Altria. The international relations task force, run by Philip Morris. The commerce and insurance task force, by State Farm. And the health and human services task force, by Guarantee Trust Life Insurance.

Alas, I was quickly regurgitated from the belly of the beast. Outside the meeting rooms, a D.C. police officer, stationed to keep out the riffraff, turned me away.

“Our business meetings are not open, and so the subcommittee meetings and task force meetings are not open,” explained Bill Meierling, an ALEC spokesman. I could wait a few hours and then attend a luncheon and some workshops, as long as I promised not to record them.

But Meierling wanted to assure me that there was nothing untoward about this arrangement, and that it was absolutely not true that the corporations that fund ALEC were behind closed doors, handing their legislative wish lists to the conservative state legislators who then pass them, rubber-stamp style, from coast to coast.

“What you fundamentally need to know about this organization is it’s completely legislator driven,” he said.

Uh-huh. And ALEC is proving that by keeping reporters from the rooms where the legislators are or are not receiving their marching orders from corporate patrons….

Mr. Charles P. Pierce, at Esquire, links to the Guardian‘s recent release of internal ALEC documents — including a gracenote that “a draft agreement prepared for the board meeting proposed that Alec’s chairs in each of the 50 states, who are drawn from senior legislators, should be required to put the interests of the organisation first, thus setting up a possible conflict of interest with the voters who elected them” — and is quite properly outraged:

… Nobody has any excuse any longer. Reporters — local and national — no longer have any excuse to treat ALEC and its work product as anything more than corporate-funded propaganda designed to exist outside the imperatives of democratic self-government. Voters — local and national — no longer have any excuse that they were somehow fooled by their representatives, who were acting out of loyalty to some distant boardroom and not to the people who elected them. Democratic parties — local and national — no longer have any excuse to keep fro crushing this organization in whatever new guise it chooses to camouflage itself and its agenda. That last part — the “draft agreement” by which state legislators agree to be big old ‘ho’s for the people who run ALEC — should be politically suicidal. It’s long past time to ACORN these bastards in the public mind.

And Emma Roller, filling in for Dave Weigel at Slate, highlights the latest innovation in anti-democracy:

… At this year’s conference, ALEC isn’t just working to promote conservative state laws, but to dismantle the federal government’s control over the states. Mark Meckler, co-founder of the Tea Party Patriots, spoke at an afternoon workshop to sell he and ALEC’s latest project: calling for a “convention of states.” The way it would work, state lawmakers would use Article V of the Constitution to introduce a suite of constitutional amendments with the goal of severely restricting federal power.

In his new book The Liberty Amendments, conservative talk show host Mark Levin argues that Article V is an “emergency cord” of sorts to restore jurisdiction to the states. To pull that cord, two-thirds of state legislatures—34 of them—would have to meet and propose amendments on the same subject. Each amendment would then have to be approved by three-quarters of the states to be ratified. And therein lies one of the big problems with the project, aside from the small issue of constitutional interpretation—only 27 state legislatures are Republican-controlled.

But shouldn’t conservatives be more focused on winning national elections anyway? Michael Farris, a states’ rights advocate, made the case that, in order to build grassroots support for Republican campaigns in 2014 and 2016, conservative groups like ALEC must first produce tangible policy results. To rebuild the federal government in its image, ALEC must first destroy it.

ALEC’s — the GOP’s — greatest success over the last several decades has come from inserting ‘grassroot’ hardcore rightwingers into local and state elective offices, working upwards from school boards to governorships. I’m not sure whether this new call for “states’ rights” is a signal they’re ready to go for the big stakes, or a desperate attempt to rebrand after recent funding setbacks. But I think we can all agree that using ‘states’ rights’ as a rallying cry has never led to a good outcome here in these more-or-less United States.

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61Comments

  1. 1.

    Yatsuno

    December 5, 2013 at 2:51 am

    To pull that cord, two-thirds of state legislatures—34 of them—would have to meet and propose amendments on the same subject.

    HA! Maths! U can’t beat that libtardz!

  2. 2.

    Villago Delenda Est

    December 5, 2013 at 3:05 am

    These guys are just plain evil, in the Death Eaters infiltrating the Ministry of Magic sense.

  3. 3.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 5, 2013 at 3:08 am

    Reporters — local and national — no longer have any excuse to treat ALEC and its work product as anything more than corporate-funded propaganda designed to exist outside the imperatives of democratic self-government.

    Reporters don’t see a problem with this. Politics is a game to them, and it’s natural the rich would play to win.

    Voters — local and national — no longer have any excuse that they were somehow fooled by their representatives

    Their representatives promised to abuse the poor and minorities. ALEC helps them do that. The vast majority of these voters don’t need to be fooled.

    Democratic parties — local and national — no longer have any excuse to keep fro crushing this organization

    Crush it how? I seriously doubt it’s illegal. Republicans like asshole policies, even if they’re rich asshole policies. There’s very little to be gained campaigning against ALEC.

    That last part … should be politically suicidal.

    Should, but isn’t. As long as we’re locked in a culture war to the death, whether a GOP legislator is loyal to their constituents or big business will rarely matter. At best, it’s only important if it’s so egregious it pisses off squishies in a close race.

  4. 4.

    Phylllis

    December 5, 2013 at 3:36 am

    Our local news did a story a few days ago on this Article V business. Totally credulous story about ‘the movement’ in SC, showing a guy in his living room, talking to… three other people. I guess the station thought it was legit because a state representative has pre-filed a bill in the SC House about it, thus making it a movement.

  5. 5.

    Baud

    December 5, 2013 at 4:55 am

    The Article V movement was a thing in the 90’s also. People who can’t govern always have the grandest ideas.

  6. 6.

    Poopyman

    December 5, 2013 at 5:37 am

    Gotta disagree with Charlie here:

    … no longer have any excuse to treat ALEC and its work product as anything more than corporate-funded propaganda …

    It’s not propaganda. It’s legislation that is actually passed in Republican-controlled states. Big difference.

    Otherwise, I pretty much +1 what @Frankensteinbeck: said. A lot of voters apparently don’t have a problem with their legislators being bought and paid for if the buyer (apparently) has an agenda that they can get behind.

  7. 7.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 5, 2013 at 6:16 am

    The latest from the Guardian: ALEC calls for penalties on ‘freerider’ homeowners in assault on clean energy

    An alliance of corporations and conservative activists is mobilising to penalise homeowners who install their own solar panels – casting them as “freeriders” – in a sweeping new offensive against renewable energy, the Guardian has learned.

    @Frankensteinbeck: Guess I should just get out the Vaseline. Nothing I can do, right?

  8. 8.

    Davis X. Machina

    December 5, 2013 at 6:26 am

    The Devil’s greatest feat is convincing the world he does not exist.

    Ditto for ALEC.

  9. 9.

    Baud

    December 5, 2013 at 6:27 am

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Sometimes there is no substitute for winning elections. If we can’t do that, then, yes, it is Vaseline time.

    ETA: BTW, did anyone click on the Guardian link. The headlines are not doom and gloom at all.

    ALEC facing funding crisis from donor exodus in wake of Trayvon Martin row
    • Rightwing lobby group appealing to major donors to return
    • Internal documents reveal so-called ‘Prodigal Son Project’
    • Network lost almost 400 state legislators over past two years

  10. 10.

    Seth Owen

    December 5, 2013 at 6:45 am

    ALEC’s effectiveness depended upon stealth. Now that they have been noticed and being watched they’re going to fail. Their recent funding problems are a symptom. Democrats and progressives should hammer ALEC “flush-Rush” style until it is neutralized. And keep their eyes open for its replacement.

  11. 11.

    Poopyman

    December 5, 2013 at 6:46 am

    @Baud: Also too, they’ve been shedding corporate sponsors, the latest being VISA after The Guardian expose.

    It’s not lost on me that the US media has been pretty quiet about ALEC’s activities. Good for The Guardian.

  12. 12.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 5, 2013 at 6:55 am

    @Baud:

    Sometimes there is no substitute for winning elections.

    And the answer to that particular conundrum is GOTV.

  13. 13.

    danielx

    December 5, 2013 at 7:17 am

    But I think we can all agree that using ‘states’ rights’ as a rallying cry has never led to a good outcome here in these more-or-less United States.

    No, it hasn’t. Makes me want to walk into the ALEC policy summit dressed as this guy.

    Whenever you hear that bit about how “it wasn’t about slavery!”, the best response is “Fine, have it your way. How about it was about traitorous sonsofbitches firing on the American flag”. I’ve found that usually leaves faux patriots with their mouths hanging open; then they start turning puce. Because we all know who’s the most patriotic in this here U.S. of A.

  14. 14.

    MomSense

    December 5, 2013 at 7:24 am

    I was talking about the issue of ALEC with my Dad and we were wondering why businesses would want people to be broke, sick, and stupid. I just don’t understand why their agenda is actually good for business. I see human misery and economic collapse as the result of their efforts. Why do these business interests think this will be good for them?

  15. 15.

    Kay

    December 5, 2013 at 7:25 am

    Well, Millbank doesn’t credit them, but this:

    But ALEC’s fortunes began to change with the killing of Trayvon Martin and the resulting attention to the danger of “stand your ground” laws, one of many initiatives ALEC spread from sea to shining sea. Some corporate sponsors, including Amazon, Coca-Cola, General Electric, Kraft, McDonald’s and Wal-Mart, quit ALEC. On Tuesday, the Guardian newspaper published a trove of internal ALEC documents showing how grim its situation has become.
    It reported that the group has lost almost 400 state legislators in the past two years and more than 60 corporations. Its income fell a third short of projections in the first six months of this year. To raise money, the documents showed, ALEC considered expanding its policy portfolio to gambling, and, concerned about potential tax problems with its designation as a 501(c)(3) charity, it is considering 501(c)(4) status, which would allow it to lobby more openly.

    Is actually due to attention and pressure from blogs, specifically, (mostly) AA writers at Colorlines, and it wasn’t just Martin and SYG, it started with voter supression laws. ALEC has dropped both SYG and voter suppression laws as a result of (mostly) AA’s pressuring corporations that make consumer products (Coca Cola, etc) to drop their affiliation.

    I don’t think Coca Cola can have their brand associated with gunning down teenagers and stopping people from voting. Not the message they want to send. I think the companies that sell directly to consumers and have a brand to protect panicked, and fled.

    It’s great that the Guardian and the WaPo are on-board, though :)

    ALEC is also big in public school privatization. They’re the authors of more than 300 state laws on “ed reform”.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    December 5, 2013 at 7:27 am

    @Kay:

    Hey, Kay. Chris Hayes seems to be doing education segments this week. I caught two of them. Michelle Rhee on last night (ugh). Have you seen them?

  17. 17.

    Baud

    December 5, 2013 at 7:30 am

    @danielx:

    I didn’t think that Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter was a very good book, but the one thing I liked about it portrayed slavery and the Confederacy as unadulterated evils.

  18. 18.

    Botsplainer

    December 5, 2013 at 7:30 am

    I feel myself saddened at the thought that it is highly unlikely that any deranged gunman is going to find his way into the ALEC headquarters, indiscriminately gunning down every person working there.

    THAT would be true Karmic justice.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    December 5, 2013 at 7:35 am

    @MomSense:

    I just don’t understand why their agenda is actually good for business.

    It’s not, but there is a free rider problem. A particular business calculates the financial benefit of ALEC’s agenda to its short-term bottom line, but not the systemic and cumulative market-wide effects on the economic growth as a whole. In other words, ALEC supporters see only the trees and treat the forest as someone else’s responsibility.

  20. 20.

    Waspuppet

    December 5, 2013 at 7:37 am

    “What you fundamentally need to know about this organization is it’s completely legislator driven,” he said.

    I’m sure that’s “true,” in the sense that there’s probably some pseudo-elaborate ritual whereby the legislators first ASK the lords of ALEC if they have any “ideas” or “suggestions” before being handed their marching orders.

  21. 21.

    MomSense

    December 5, 2013 at 7:43 am

    One would think that the powerful business lobbies would be clamoring for big gubmint spending on things like infrastructure so they would get contracts, you know being paid money for building things.

    Then maybe I could drive my little car to my son’s play date without destroying the suspension and needing expensive repairs.

    BTW, do we know if Morning Ho is on the ALEC payroll because he certainly is spinning me dizzy on his show this morning.

  22. 22.

    OzarkHillbilly

    December 5, 2013 at 7:43 am

    @Kay: They are the lobbying arm of the anti-Christ.

  23. 23.

    Alex S.

    December 5, 2013 at 7:51 am

    BREAKING NEWS: Government promotes government program!

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/ron-fournier-white-house-propaganda-outfit-selling-obamacare

  24. 24.

    Kay

    December 5, 2013 at 7:52 am

    @Baud:

    No, I haven’t. I read all these public school blogs now so they were all talking about it. I think it’s getting more attention now because of de Blasio. Education was the second biggest issue for his voters, specifically, unhappiness with Bloomberg’s ed reforms. Existing public schools got the shaft under Bloomberg, and that’s the general complaint (it’s complicated and there are lots of factions, but that’s the nutshell version) that ed reformers are abandoning existing public schools in order to fund and promote charters and vouchers. Since 90% of US public school kids attend traditional public schools, this is a problem. There are a lot more of “us” :)

    Frankly, Duncan is as bad as the Republicans. I’ve tried and I cannot identify where he differs from Jeb Bush on education policy. He’d say he doesn’t dictate results like GW Bush did in Texas and nationally and Jeb Bush did in Florida, instead he’d say he frees up schools for “innovation” but the end result is the same: existing public schools (even good school systems, strong schools) get screwed in favor of vouchers and charters, so to me it doesn’t matter.

    Anyway, as I’ve said here before I think (my opinion) it’s becoming a bigger political issue, particularly perhaps problematic for Democrats, because Republicans have never supported public schools. Democrats say they do. I was really pleased to see the Dem candidate for gov in Michigan has come out strong for “keeping public schools PUBLIC is the cornerstone of our democracy”, which is the fundamental issue here. He’s the first high-level state candidate I’ve seen go that far, address the elephant in the room, which is privatization.

  25. 25.

    RaflW

    December 5, 2013 at 8:11 am

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Republicans like asshole policies, even if they’re rich asshole policies. There’s very little to be gained campaigning against ALEC.

    I disagree. There is an anti-corporate backlash brewing that is strongly connected to the minimum wage, fast food worker and WalMart protests.

    Being sure to indelibly link Republicans and their asshole policies with corporations is an essential campaign. But it’s a PR campaign aimed at the corporations. Allstate left ALEC over their terrible reputation.

    How about we put hella pressure on State Farm? Why the fvk is State Farm in league with climate deniers? The faster climate change happens, the worse their loss ratios will get. Its insane, and they need to be told very forcefully that customers do not want their companies associated with sub-basement, closed-door cannodling with these shitstains.

  26. 26.

    RaflW

    December 5, 2013 at 8:16 am

    @Seth Owen:

    And keep their eyes open for its replacement.

    This of course. Corporate America is flush with cash, they’ll find another way, probably already have. ALEC needs to be hobbled and ridiculed, and the corporations that fund them need to see it as a PR disaster. But they will try again.

    If this can be tied in timing-wise with 501(c)4 regulation, we may have a bit of a shot at keeping the democratic experiment running for another decade or two. The corporate urge to control the whole deal will not easily be tamed, none the less.

  27. 27.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    December 5, 2013 at 8:20 am

    In his new book The Liberty Amendments, conservative talk show host Mark Levin argues that Article V is an “emergency cord” of sorts to restore jurisdiction to the states.

    If only the slave states have thought of that in1861 when the Lincoln administration dangerously overreached with Federal power by refusing to not force free states to hunt down escaped slaves.

  28. 28.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    December 5, 2013 at 8:26 am

    @RaflW:

    How about we put hella pressure on State Farm? Why the fvk is State Farm in league with climate deniers?

    Wasn’t State Farm the one pointing out climate change is starting to be an issue with claims? That’s all a bit odd. Sounds a bit like State Farm is being conned by the glibs here, which is fitting for an insurance company.

  29. 29.

    Baud

    December 5, 2013 at 8:30 am

    @Kay:

    I think the exposure is interesting after reading your posts for a while now.

  30. 30.

    Kay

    December 5, 2013 at 8:44 am

    @Baud:

    The politics of it really interesting. The marketing. For example, the (smarter) members of the Reform Movement are moving away from Rhee. The claim is they have been misunderstood because some “extreme” voices have been loudest (Rhee). They’re really pushing back against the privatization charge. I think they’re doing that because it was starting to get traction, move out from the silo that is Ed World and into the larger political world.

  31. 31.

    rikyrah

    December 5, 2013 at 9:06 am

    Elizabeth Warren, Liberals Hit Back Against Third Way After Economic Populist Attack
    Posted: 12/04/2013 1:46 pm EST | Updated: 12/04/2013 3:16 pm EST

    A Monday op-ed by the centrist think tank Third Way railing against economic populism has sparked a liberal counterattack, with Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) calling on big banks to disclose their financial contributions to think tanks and progressive groups calling on Rep. Allyson Schwartz (D-Penn.), who is running for governor, to drop her affiliation with the group.

    Without mentioning the group, Warren’s office released a letter Tuesday to six large financial institutions calling on them to voluntarily disclose their donors. The letter came one day after the Wall Street Journal op-ed, written by Third Way’s president Jon Cowan and senior vice president Jim Kessler, urged Democrats not to follow Warren over the “populist cliff.”

    The Progressive Change Campaign Committee, Progressives United and Democracy For America all called on Schwartz Tuesday to resign from her position as honorary co-chair of Third Way. Democratic primary opponent John Hanger echoed the demand. Mark Bergman, a spokesman for Schwartz, said she would not resign but said in an email to The Huffington Post that she thought the op-ed was “outrageous, and strongly disagrees with it.”

    While Third Way, like most think tanks, is organized as a nonprofit and not required to disclose its donors, it has ties to large corporations. The Nation reported Tuesday that the group uses a Washington consulting firm that represents financial institutions such as Deutsche Bank and MasterCard. The liberal blog DailyKos pointed out that many of its trustees are investment bankers.

    “Policies by your institutions to conceal those contributions from public view are wrong. Greater transparency will benefit your shareholders, policymakers, and, ultimately, the public,” wrote Warren in the letter. “Just as there is transparency around your direct efforts to influence policymaking through lobbying, the same transparency should exist for any indirect efforts you make to influence policymaking through financial contributions to think tanks.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/04/elizabeth-warren-third-way_n_4384842.html?1386182870

  32. 32.

    Chris

    December 5, 2013 at 9:23 am

    @MomSense:

    Why do these business interests think this will be good for them?

    What makes you think “business interests” have any idea what’s good for them?

    They live in a consequence-free world (the more so for the Kochs or Romneys who inherited their wealth and never had to climb to the top in the first place). 1%ers don’t suffer the consequences when their businesses crash – everyone else gets fired or loses their pensions, but they get to jump ship with a golden parachute. They can crash the entire world economy and have the government there with a bailout and a helping hand to get them back on their feet and send them on their way. They live in a world where they will thrive no matter how their businesses and the economy at large do, so what incentive do they have to care if there’s human misery and economic collapse? The world has given them no reason to think it’ll ever affect them.

    They live in a criticism-free world too, because every time they crash a business (or the entire world economy), an ocean of pundits, economists, politicians and other sycophants starts thundering about how it was all the fault of government regulation, or unions thugs, or the lack of work ethic in the American workforce, or anyone but the managers who were actually making the decisions. Society keeps telling them “it’s okay, it wasn’t your fault,” and everyone likes to believe that anyway. So if there’s human misery and economic collapse, well, what could they have done about it? It’s out of their hands – it’s these other, unreasonable people who made it happen. (In fact, they’re victims just like you).

    This is what happens when you spend fifty years telling an entire class of people that their shit doesn’t smell bad. They live in their own insulated bubble, even more than the stereotypical Fox News viewers in Appalachian trailers, and they either won’t understand what you’re saying here, or they won’t see how it affects them, or they’ll shrug and say it’s not their fault.

  33. 33.

    handsmile

    December 5, 2013 at 9:30 am

    Once again, like it does every single f*cking day, the Guardian demonstrates why it is the one indispensable English-language news publication/website.

    I thoroughly agree with the observations above of Seth Owens (#10) and RalfW (#26) that, with ALEC’s exposure by the Guardian (its reporting later picked up by other news organizations), it will be necessary to “keep eyes open for its replacement” or at least more vigilant as its activities will become even less visible.

    And such vigilance sure as hell won’t be provided by the Village media for whom ALEC is a yeti, chupacabra or some other fabled creature near-impossible to report on. The Nation’s veteran John Nichols has been exposing ALEC’s villainy for a number of years (imo, Nichols deserves much, much wider recognition/appreciation; here’s his latest on the Detroit bankruptcy decision: http://www.thenation.com/blog/177433/detroit-bankruptcy-bankrupts-democracy ).

    The Center for Media and Democracy’s “PR Watch” blog (linked to by Poopyman #11) often trains one overworked eye on ALEC’s baneful activities.

    http://www.prwatch.org/news/2013/07/12194/alec-celebrates-its-40th-birthday-chicago-protesters-prepare-blow-out-candles

  34. 34.

    Debbie(aussie)

    December 5, 2013 at 9:38 am

    @Chris: Chris, are socio/pyscho-paths, born or created? Our society seems to be ‘creating’ them. What happened to empathy. I say this often, but I really don’t understand the lack of concern for others. I have begun to think that I was ‘blessed’ with an over abundance, a gift from some of the worlds many grifters I guess ;)

  35. 35.

    Villago Delenda Est

    December 5, 2013 at 9:38 am

    @MomSense:

    This is one of those rare instances where it isn’t about money.

    It’s about power.

    They’re willing to risk lower profit margins in order to push their law of the jungle agenda, because they believe (and this is particularly true of the utter scum that are the Koch brothers) they will be at the top of the food chain. Which they revel in.

  36. 36.

    Debbie(aussie)

    December 5, 2013 at 9:43 am

    @handsmile: the Guardian is doing similar things for we progressives in Aus. Murdoch own about 65% of our media and has passed his instructions on to his bought and paid for gov’t. The guardian at least appears adversarial. They are covering some important issues re spying at the moment.

  37. 37.

    Villago Delenda Est

    December 5, 2013 at 9:44 am

    @Alex S.:

    The man is a vile asshole whose head would look infinitely better on a pike rather than on his shoulders.

  38. 38.

    handsmile

    December 5, 2013 at 10:15 am

    @Debbie(aussie):

    Happy to know that. From my vantage some miles to the northeast of you, I shudder to imagine what the media ecosystem must be like in Australia what with Murdoch’s immense presence there (as well as being the incubator of his empire).

    I’ve read one or two Guardian articles about tensions between Australia and Indonesia over the NSA surveillance revelations. Could/would you summarize the response of the Abbott government, e.g., indignation, denial, boilerplate regret, promises of future reforms? I have to think that Julie Bishop is a Liberal Party stooge.

  39. 39.

    scav

    December 5, 2013 at 10:25 am

    @Debbie(aussie): Born and Created, both. Society either encourages or discourages (more or less strongly, covertly or overtly) the constellation of behaviors. A fair number of local social ideals (self-made man, personal greed as universal sole motivator and thus good, Marlboro loner, go-it-alone-hero, damn-the-police-I’m-shooting-now) are strong on the overt celebration of psychopathic behavior as ideal, both socially and in business behaviors. Psychothapy Enabling / Validating might be a valid diagnosis.

  40. 40.

    Regnad Kcin

    December 5, 2013 at 10:33 am

    why not just let them have their Article V way, and go already.

    please. tired of having my tax $$$ hoovered up by red state takers.

    cut the cord
    cut the cord
    cut the cord
    cut the cord

  41. 41.

    Roger Moore

    December 5, 2013 at 10:46 am

    @MomSense:

    I was talking about the issue of ALEC with my Dad and we were wondering why businesses would want people to be broke, sick, and stupid. I just don’t understand why their agenda is actually good for business.

    As long as there are enough healthy, well educated workers today, they don’t really care about whether there will continue to be a supply in the future. The only thing that matters today is the next quarterly report, and the future beyond that can hang. Unless the system will collapse tomorrow, they aren’t willing to pay to keep it up, even if that guarantees it will fail in the slightly longer term. It’s a perfect example of modern management thinking.

  42. 42.

    Ms. D. Ranged in AZ

    December 5, 2013 at 10:52 am

    The cartoon on this post reminds me of this: “The beatings will continue until morale improves”.

  43. 43.

    Roger Moore

    December 5, 2013 at 10:54 am

    @Debbie(aussie):

    Chris, are socio/pyscho-paths, born or created? Our society seems to be ‘creating’ them.

    I don’t know if we’re creating them, but we’re definitely promoting them into positions of authority rather than locking them up the way a sane society would.

  44. 44.

    handsmile

    December 5, 2013 at 11:12 am

    @Roger Moore:

    Would amend your comment to read: “…enough healthy, well-behaved workers….” Following orders and displaying/feigning esprit de corps requires little enough education. Docility rather than doubt or dexterity (skills nurtured by education) would seem the more cherished virtue of “modern management thinking.”

    Otherwise, agree in full.

    [don’t know how to do the text strike-through, FTFY-thing that the adepts deploy here]

  45. 45.

    fledermaus

    December 5, 2013 at 11:14 am

    At this point, it getting so I don’t care if a bunch of southern states want to turn themselves into 3rd world hell holes, we should just let them

  46. 46.

    Chris

    December 5, 2013 at 11:17 am

    @Debbie(aussie):

    Since (dammit Jim) I’m not a doctor, there are other people better qualified than me to comment on the sociopath/psychopath thing. But I agree that we “create” such behavior – like I said, we as a society have been telling them their shit doesn’t stink for so long that they totally believe it.

    The “liberal consensus” years of the fifties and sixties proved that you’ll always have some power-mad lunatics (like the Kochs) who believe in their own divine right of kings and refuse to accept a society based on anything else, but you’ll also have more pragmatic businessmen (like the Rockefellers) who will behave better if you give them strict guidelines and make it clear that you won’t tolerate any shit from them.

    The problem is that right now, there are no such guidelines, and they’ve all been told that that’s how it’s supposed to be. From that, you get the world we live in, which not only has rich assholes in it, but actually incentivizes all rich people to be assholes.

  47. 47.

    feebog

    December 5, 2013 at 11:18 am

    …conservative groups like ALEC must first produce tangible policy results.

    Tangible results like voter suppression and absolutely no gun control whatsoever? Villago in 35 above is absolutely right. This is about grabbing and maintaining power on an ongoing basis. Keep the browns and youngs from voting, gerrymander the crap out of every state, and cling to power as long as you possibly can.

  48. 48.

    Chris

    December 5, 2013 at 11:20 am

    @Regnad Kcin:

    why not just let them have their Article V way, and go already.

    Because of all the people who live in these states and aren’t right wing assholes, and if these states were granted independence would be first in line for the Apartheid treatment.

  49. 49.

    slippy

    December 5, 2013 at 11:20 am

    @Roger Moore: A-fucking-men to that. I’ve started to think that the major movement we’re fighting against is not liberal vs. conservative but human being vs. slavering, sociopathic monster. It’s like we’ve taken the worst qualities of humanity and put them on a pedestal. Fuck, what is wrong with us?

  50. 50.

    scav

    December 5, 2013 at 11:23 am

    @handsmile: Good point. Need a balance between docility and independence, individual and societal orientation, and it needs to benefit (or at least not disproportionately harm) different groups / classes. That’s indeed always the tricky bit. Can’t just be “You lot! Shut up and obey our enlightened personal greed! Bask in our glow and describe your abject admiration while you’re at it!”

  51. 51.

    handsmile

    December 5, 2013 at 11:33 am

    @scav:

    That, followed by the choral refrain: “Thank you, sir! May I have another?”

  52. 52.

    Regnad Kcin

    December 5, 2013 at 11:35 am

    @Chris: It would necessitate some demographic re-jiggering. Look at the generational population shifts in Europe, post Marshall plan.

    Change does not come without friction.

    But we will be much better off if folks who want reasonable gun laws, single-payer health, social safety net, living wages, could just jettison the substandard economies we are carrying and let them devolve.

  53. 53.

    Frankensteinbeck

    December 5, 2013 at 11:38 am

    I’m back, and I am moved by what @Poopyman and others have pointed out. There is no consequence for the Republican legislators, but there is consequence for the companies who buy them. They are cockroaches who hate the light, and can very easily be shamed into running away.

    There might also be a subtler, long term benefit. Rather than campaigning against stuff like ALEC delivering votes from the angry, it might make the angry and help what seems to be a long-needed resurgence of labor.

    @slippy:
    That is exactly the fight we’re having. Reagan sowed the seeds, Palin’s nomination validated them, and Obama’s existence drives them insane.

  54. 54.

    Glocksman

    December 5, 2013 at 12:14 pm

    The environment and energy task force, led by private-sector American Electric Power. The tax and fiscal policy task force, headed by Altria. The international relations task force, run by Philip Morris.

    Isn’t Phillip Morris a division of Altria?

    Another question would be just what do a bunch of dingbat state legislators have to do with international relations outside of the occasional effort to convince foreign companies to build plants in their states.

  55. 55.

    Omnes Omnibus

    December 5, 2013 at 12:22 pm

    @Glocksman: Phillip Morris renamed itself Altria IIRC.

  56. 56.

    Glocksman

    December 5, 2013 at 12:30 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    They did, but I thought the cigarette division was still named Phillip Morris.

    While on the subject of tobacco companies, I heartily recommend Ashes to Ashes: America’s Hundred Year Cigarette War to anyone remotely interested in the subject.

    It was written in the late 90’s so it’s a bit dated but still a very good read.

  57. 57.

    The Other Chuck

    December 5, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Call ALEC for what they are: Fascists.

  58. 58.

    Linnaeus

    December 5, 2013 at 1:33 pm

    @The Other Chuck:

    Call ALEC for what they are: Fascists.

    I prefer to call them neofeudalists, but whatever term one uses, it’s clear that ALEC is not good for our society.

  59. 59.

    Chris

    December 5, 2013 at 2:08 pm

    @The Other Chuck:

    Technically, their equivalent in Germany would be the traditional elites – the industrialists, the military, the clergy – who reached out to the fascist movement, partnered with it, and thus made it possible for Hitler and his Brownshirts to move from being a mob of freaks and street thugs into political respectability and power.

  60. 60.

    pseudonymous in nc

    December 5, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Basic point: it’s time for Americans to start giving a shit about state elections other than governor. Because right now, they generally don’t, and get surprised when their states are taken over by ALEC contractors.

  61. 61.

    johnny aquitard

    December 5, 2013 at 6:22 pm

    @Chris: Fuck yeah. This.

    @Chris: They’ve been working on getting their own version of brownshirts here. They’re getting damn close. That incident in Dallas where 30 armed men showed up with guns to ‘counter demonstrate’ a few women meeting to discus gun control, yeah that’s what brownshirts role was. Political intimidation via implied and direct threats of violence, as well as actual violence.

    We will see actual violence as a result of ALEC brownshirts. They’ve got them wound up to where they’ll shoot an old man with alzheimers who knocks on their door, because they think everything is an imminent threat of great bodily harm to them, and mostly because now they can.

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