Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Radicalized white males who support Trump are pitching a tent in the abyss.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.

Second rate reporter says what?

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Disagreements are healthy; personal attacks are not.

After dobbs, women are no longer free.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

She burned that motherfucker down, and I am so here for it. Thank you, Caroline Kennedy.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

I swear, each month of 2025 will have its own history degree.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires.

Marge, god is saying you’re stupid.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

“What are Republicans afraid of?” Everything.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

With all due respect and assumptions of good faith, please fuck off into the sun.

Teach a man to fish, and he’ll sit in a boat all day drinking beer.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

If you still can’t see these things even now, maybe politics isn’t your forte and you should stop writing about it.

You are here: Home / Civil Rights / Racial Justice / Post-racial America / They smile in your face

Reader Interactions

243Comments

  2. 2.

    Davis X. Machina

    I remember 25 years ago when the marinas of SA were full of ocean-going sailboats — ‘bug-out boats’ — 28-, 35-, 42-footers. Sail because of the freedom from fuel shortages. (Some of them were built up here in Maine, just for that market). People were buying marine SSB radios, studying celestial navigation — GPS not widely available yet — laying in tinned food. All so they could bug out when the DeKlerk regime fell and the shit hit the fan.

    It never did. Mr. Mandela is no small part of the reason why.

    I hope at least some of those boats went out for lunch cruises and stuff, the occasional regatta….

    In my lifetime I never expected peace in Northern Ireland, majority rule in South Africa, or a re-united Germany. Now it’s hard to imagine a world without them.

  4. 4.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud:

    I always felt sorry for Ray Charles, slipping this mortal coil the same week as Saint Reagan.

    Remember the constant RWR and Ray Charles clip?

  5. 5.

    Litlebritdiftrnt

    @Davis X. Machina:

    I remember where I was when the wall came down, me and my parents were living in base housing in HMS Cochrane in Scotland because they were visiting. We sat in front of the television and just watched in awe.

  6. 6.

    Villago Delenda Est

    Never forget that the icons of modern “conservatism”, the shitty grade Z movie star and the Wicked Witch of Albion, both considered him a terrorist.

    Those two are gnats in comparison to Nelson Mandela.

  8. 8.

    Jeremy

    Don’t check out the conservative sites because they are spewing some serious racist bile at Nelson Mandela. The blog Little Green Footballs is talking about it.

  10. 10.

    Elizabelle

    @Jeremy:

    re rightwingers spewing:

    I hope they die of apoplexy.

    Would be good for the rest of us. They’ve outlived their welcome.

  13. 13.

    jenn

    I haven’t gotten out of the boat to check for myself, but according to folks at LGF, no, not everyone is in agreement about that. Some of the comments by the Freepers and Breitbrats are … pretty bad.

  14. 14.

    Roger Moore

    @Aimai:

    Who wants to bet how long before they declare mandela a retrospective republican?

    I think it’ll take at least a year or two. First, they’ll have to talk about how he embodied some kind of conservative principle. Only after they’ve completely convinced themselves of that and had a chance to totally rewrite their memories will they declare him a Republican.

  15. 15.

    Elizabelle

    @Baud:

    I live in the DC area. Did love the honesty of some Reagan mourner (young guy, paying his respects) who called the occasion “Woodstock for Republicans.”

  17. 17.

    Bubblegum Tate

    Today, everyone is agreeing that Nelson Mandela was a great man.

    Not so much in the comments over at Breitbart’s House o’ Coprophagia, where they’re arguing that the whites in South Africa had a good thing going until that terrible, terrible Mandela fucked it all up and why does everybody think he’s so great, anyway, when he was actually a terrible person who the LIEbrul media wanted to make into a great person?

    I guess my “Mandela was actually a conservative!” talking point prediction was a swing and a miss. They won’t get to that part until they’re through having their 5 minutes decades’ hate.

  19. 19.

    scav

    bbc radio 5 is doing some fine, sane and reasonable stuff on him, including the steely politician with interesting shirts. They have to break every so often for the weather they’ve got, but otherwise there are grand stories and details. Didn’t know he actually went and learned Afrikaans. Should start back on Nelson soon I’d think.

  20. 20.

    beltane

    Ah, but Buckley was so highbrow and literate. He avoided the obvious comparison to Hitler and went with a more nuanced reference to Lenin instead.

  21. 21.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Bubblegum Tate:

    they’re arguing that the whites in South Africa had a good thing going until that terrible, terrible Mandela fucked it all up

    Whites in South Africa still have it pretty damn good.

  22. 22.

    Jeremy

    @Aimai: I don’t know. If you check out the blogs conservatives are saying some pretty hateful, racist things about Mandela.

  24. 24.

    hilts

    The Dickishness of Cheney:

    “Cheney bristled in response to questions about his voting record, revealing a mindset that never understood what was at stake in South Africa — or perhaps understood all too well. Challenged last Sunday to defend his 1985 vote against a House resolution urging the release of Nelson Mandela from 23 years of imprisonment, he first denounced such inquiries as “trivia.” Does he really think that the oppression inflicted on millions of black citizens during more than five decades was a trivial matter?

    He quickly tried to correct that gaffe, praising Mandela as “a great man.” (He also remarked, with baffling condescension, that the African leader has “mellowed,” whatever that means.) He had opposed the resolution to free Mandela, according to Cheney, because it was attached to recognition of the African National Congress.

    “The ANC was then viewed as a terrorist organization,” he said. “Nobody was for keeping Nelson Mandela in prison. Nobody was for supporting apartheid.” ”

    h/t http://www.salon.com/2000/08/01/south_africa_3

  25. 25.

    Culture of Truth

    In 1992, even before he won the Nobel prize, much less he became President, I met Nelson Mandela on his visit to the United States. He was very nice to me even though I didn’t deserve his time and attention. I was struck by how genuine and friendly and dignified he was. He was a great activist but also a great world leader.

  26. 26.

    Culture of Truth

    I know white people who have lived in South Africa for a long time. They should get down on their hands and knees daily and thank Nelson Mandela.

  28. 28.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @beltane:

    Well, he wasn’t going to dis one of the 20th Century’s staunch anti-Bolsheviks if he wasn’t forced to while testifying in his own trial for treason, would he?

  29. 29.

    Culture of Truth

    I found out today while shopping for a smart phone. The first 10 comments on the website were all racist dipshits.

  30. 30.

    Chris

    “The release of Mandela…may one day be likened to the arrival of Lenin at the Finland Station in 1917.” -William F. Buckley

    Doug, wait till you find out what they used to say about MLK.

    I for one am delighted that Nelson Mandela outlived both William F. Buckley and Ronald Reagan.

  31. 31.

    scav

    @hilts:

    “Nobody was for keeping Nelson Mandela in prison. Nobody was for supporting apartheid.”

    Looked at your slathering fan-club and cherished base recently tin-heart? Outreach, guys, Outreach and International Rep.

  32. 32.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Bex: The Trabbies had started in the summer of ’89 when the Hungarians basically decided they weren’t going to stop people from crossing into Austria anymore. I was living in Bavaria at the time, and my first reaction to the infestation of Trabbies and Wartburgs was annoyance. They were slow and in the way on all the roads. Imagine coming around a corner at 70mph to find a Wartburg doing 45mph and trying to pass a Trabbie doing 43mph looming in your path. It was a few weeks later – maybe October – when the significance of what was happening started to sink in. Then the events of November 9, just suddenly broke everything open.

  33. 33.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @hilts:

    Nobody was for supporting apartheid.

    What is yet another lie to the Dark Lord?

    Someone needs to find and destroy this asshole’s horcruxes, stat.

  34. 34.

    Hungry Joe

    @Davis X. Machina: It’s fascinating, how the quickly the unimaginable can be accepted, then taken for granted. Soon the opposite is unimaginable. For example, try to come up with a scenario in which France and Germany go to war.

  35. 35.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Hungry Joe:

    When I was stationed in Germany, in the early 80’s, my German was still good enough to have casual conversations with Germans in rural ares when we were out on exercises. One old farmer gent told me that if there was a war with France tomorrow, he’d gladly volunteer for it.

    It takes time for these things to die out, and the attitudes can’t be reinforced in the meantime, as they are in this country on a great many things. Not the least of which is reverence for Southern “heritage”.

  38. 38.

    Hal

    I wonder how much self control had to be exercised by Newsmax for the simple “Nelson Mandela dies” headline.

  40. 40.

    PsiFighter37

    What, we can’t let outrageous conservative statements and hyperbole proven to be utterly and totally false be water under the bridge? /snark

  42. 42.

    Chris

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Nobody was for supporting apartheid.

    It’s a nice trick they repeatedly go for; once something (slavery, fascism, segregation, apartheid) has become so universally reviled that they can’t be for it anymore, they about-face and chuckle, “nah, nobody supported [insert abomination here] – what do you think we are, cartoon villains?” Thus you end up with the retrospective where the South was totally going to end slavery, they were just taking a little more time to get around to it – and Southern slave owners didn’t beat and torture their slaves, c’mon, that’s a little Hollywood, don’t you think? – and Wall Street never supported the Nazis (now you’re moving into total conspiracy theory, bro).

    It’s a variation of the Big Lie; the fact that these things are so egregious and that (especially if you’re a younger generation) you grew up in a world where all conventional wisdom said “yes, of course that’s awful” make it easier for these guys to say “c’mon, you know us. Would we do that? Don’t let the left sell you such a ridiculous, outlandish allegation.”

  45. 45.

    Suffern ACE

    @Chris: you overlook the finer nuances of apartheid. There were some good ideas, but they just went a little too far.

  52. 52.

    Yatsuno

    @Omnes Omnibus: A friend of mine who defected to East Germany in the 1980s found out a few years ago that his Trabbi was still intact and stored in a friend’s garage. He actually wanted to spend the money to bring it back from Germany and restore it the best he could. I thought he was nuts. Yugos look like Mercedes next to them.

  53. 53.

    Cacti

    Nelson Mandela outlived both Reagan and Thatcher, and remained lucid to the end while their poisonous minds rotted away.

    That alone is worthy of celebrating.

  54. 54.

    Linnaeus

    @Chris:

    It’s a nice trick they repeatedly go for; once something (slavery, fascism, segregation, apartheid) has become so universally reviled that they can’t be for it anymore, they about-face and chuckle, “nah, nobody supported [insert abomination here] – what do you think we are, cartoon villains?”

    Yep. Conservatives are very good at resetting the clock to zero, so to speak. You see that with all kinds of liberal policies that have become too popular for conservatives to directly oppose, at least in their rhetoric. So they hated Medicare and Social Security, but they profess to love both now and want to “save” them, while conveniently erasing the history of liberal politics that helped create those programs in the first place.

  55. 55.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Yatsuno: Few cars are made of pressed wood chips these days. I always figured that, if I clipped one with my GTI back then, all that would remain was sawdust and tires.

  59. 59.

    scav

    @Suffern ACE: And they were all those fine ree-fined gen-teeel Southern Cultural traditions to uphold: The South (Africa) will Rise Again, whistling Dixie.

  60. 60.

    Cacti

    If Republicans had their way, Mandela would have died in prison and the government of South Africa would remain officially racist.

    Reagan was George Wallace with a Hollywood smile.

  63. 63.

    Baud

    @Cacti:

    Reagan was George Wallace with a Hollywood smile.

    To get a sense of how bad Reagan was, Newt Gingrich supported Congress’s override Reagan’s veto of sanctions on South Africa.

  66. 66.

    Breezeblock

    God, I hate conservative/Repubes/Libertarians. It’s point and laugh. Fuckkkkkkk them all.

  71. 71.

    Baud

    @Lee:

    I don’t. I’ve seen them mentioned on the tubes, but I haven’t seen any actual videos. Googling now.

  72. 72.

    BGinCHI

    @Cacti: I thought conservatives were supposed to be the ones with the long memories.

    I hope Reagan gets brought out into the light where his dumb, bigoted ass belongs.

  74. 74.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @BGinCHI: @NotMax: I can’t believe I misspelled Shea. I go to the box, you know. Two minutes, by myself, you know and I feel shame, you know. And then I get free.

  75. 75.

    Hawes

    If you are in need of a strong emetic, I suggest – as always – the Yahoo! comment thread.

    Mandela didn’t end apartheid, De Clerk did. And Mandela was a terrorist and killed people. KILLED PEOPLE!! (white people…)

    And through it all, we are admonished by the racists hacks to “learn your history…”

  79. 79.

    NotMax

    @Omnes Omnibus

    Think about what you’ve done while you’re in there, miscreant.

    And no texting.

    (Really just hate to miss out on wordplay or snark and was curious if it was intentional.)

  82. 82.

    Cacti

    Darrell Issa has announced a hearing will be held to see if Mandela’s death was timed to distract from Obamacare.

  84. 84.

    Chris

    @Hawes:

    Mandela didn’t end apartheid, De Clerk did. And Mandela was a terrorist and killed people. KILLED PEOPLE!! (white people…)

    This is what kills me about all those repeated “oh, man, apartheid had its bad points, but at least there was law and order back then” ravings. Yeah, there was law and order – if you were white. For everyone else, not so much. As far as black people were concerned, apartheid, like segregation before it, essentially made crime legal as long as it was against them.

    White racists, take whatever nonwhite street gang scares you the most (Crips, Bloods, MS-13, 18th Street Gang), picture them all being deputized and given the badges and authority to enforce the law however they see fit in all your precious gated communities, and then you can begin to get some idea of what “law and order” were like in Apartheid South Africa (or the segregated United States) for thousands and thousands of people.

  85. 85.

    Chyron HR

    @Cacti:

    Darrell Issa has announced a hearing will be held to see if Mandela’s death was timed to distract from caused by Obamacare.

    Palin warned you about those Death Panels rearin’ their heads, but you didn’t listen.

  87. 87.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’ll re-work something I said in the (now-dead) thread below:

    What Mandela and deKlerk each stood for in their negotiations was essentially a promise that if they managed to negotiate majority (ie black) rule, neither side would seek revenge against the other.  The cycle of revenge killing followed by revenge killing would stop.

    That was what Mandela stood for:  not nonviolence, but an end to the cycle of revenge.

    I kind of started making arguments below that sounded like I was saying Mandela was a proponent of non-violence, but he definitely was not .  He was against the cycle of revenge and did a very good job of preventing it from spiraling out of control during the transition of power, as did deKlerk.

  90. 90.

    Plantsmantx

    Westboro Baptist tweeted:

    THANK GOD for Nelson Mandela being dropped into hell! Westboro Baptist Church booking flight to South Africa (not banned) to picket funeral!— Westboro Baptist (@WBCSays) December 6, 2013

  92. 92.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Following up on that and some of what drexciya was saying in that thread, I doubt that I would buy into nonviolence if I were black. I sure as hell would have difficulties not pursuing revenge justice if I gained power.

  93. 93.

    scav

    @efgoldman: And I’ve a feeling a massive crowd of singing South Africans could obliterate them as the Westies don’t take being mocked, and pointedly ignored as trivial and sad excuses very well.

  94. 94.

    MikeJ

    @efgoldman: With any luck somebody will rid the world of them and slip away into a township.

    I don’t recall Mandela being a huge supporter of gay rights, or against them either. I’m trying to figure out what they could think they have against him, other than the old PWB.

  96. 96.

    Culture of Truth

    @Hawes:

    If you are in need of a strong emetic, I suggest – as always – the Yahoo! comment thread.

    That’s where I was sent when I shopping for a phone! Yikes!

  98. 98.

    Shana

    @Villago Delenda Est: Having spent a good portion of Thanksgiving weekend watching the Harry Potter marathon, or as my husband refers to it “a weekend”, that made me spit my drink onto my lap.

  99. 99.

    dexwood

    Fuck Buckley in his grave. Outside his constricted circle of self-important insiders he never truly mattered to the world. Mr. Mandela, however…

  101. 101.

    Scamp Dog

    @Yatsuno: to or from East Germany? I’m suspecting you got this backwards, but think there was some movement in the other direction.

  102. 102.

    Yatsuno

    @Scamp Dog: Defected to. I keep bugging him to write a book about it, he has Stasi spy stories plus he got treated rather well as an American degenerate entering the Socialist paradise. He still has Communist leanings, interesting for an Army officer in the 1980s.

    Irony: He now lives in Arizona.

  104. 104.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Yatsuno:

    He still has Communist leanings, interesting for an Army officer in the 1980s.

    I listened to Sandinista a lot in my car during that time. Does that count?

  105. 105.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I can barely imagine how difficult it was for Mandela to negotiate with the government that had imprisoned him for over 25 years and not seek revenge. But that restraint on Mandela’s part is the reason South Africa is a reasonably functional state today instead of giving Somalia a run for its money. He was wise enough to see that he and his side had won, and that trying to exact revenge would jeopardize that victory.

  106. 106.

    Tommy

    I think it was 1979. I had a history teacher that shaped my life. He taught us history by current events. He talked to us about Mandela. It was amazing cause well I was raised in a family where I didn’t know racism. I didn’t know there was a place like South Africa. Now I know how stupid I was, but to hear it for the first time this way was nice if there is a nice way to hear it.

  109. 109.

    hells littlest angel

    Conservatives love progressives once they’re dead because they no longer have to fear that the progressive will bring change.

  115. 115.

    Interrobang

    I was in high school when Mandela walked out of prison. I had a (white) choir director who had done graduate work in music on black spirituals, and was good friends with the director of the Tuskeegee Institute Singers. We did a whole series of South African protest music partially in Zulu to commemorate it. Ever since I read Mandela died, I’ve had “Siyahamba” and “Vula Botha” in my head.

    I can’t believe some of the things the right-wingers are saying about him. Wow. (On the one side, beautiful music and freedom. On the other, vile racial slurs and insults. Who’s on the side of the angels here, again?)

  119. 119.

    Yatsuno

    @Omnes Omnibus: Did YOU defect to East Germany then came back as part of an amnesty program after the wall fell?

    Wait, don’t answer that. It might be accurate.

  120. 120.

    mdblanche

    @MikeJ: Mandela was a supporter of gay rights and South Africa’s post-apartheid constitution is the first in the world to ban anti-gay discrimination.

  121. 121.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Interrobang:

    I can’t believe some of the things the right-wingers are saying about him. Wow.

    There is nothing — absolutely nothing — the right wing hates more than being proven wrong. Especially when they’re proven absolutely, positively, unequivocally wrong with no wiggle room to claim they were secretly right the whole time.

  122. 122.

    Chris

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    They still hate FDR.

    I find it funny that, on the other hand, they’ve made Truman into their retroactive “liberal who’d totally be one of us.” The man who “lost” China. The man who was too chicken to use nukes in Korea. The man whose administration was infected with “card-carrying communists.” They man who disrupted the military with his desegregation order. The man who surrendered American sovereignty to the United Nations.

    His right wing groupies would’ve hated him if they’d been alive in his day, just like the right wingers of his days hated him, and for exactly all the same reasons that they hate Obama today. Truman the socialist, Truman the weak sister, Truman the one-worlder, Truman the n/gg/r lover, Truman the backstabber of our glorious troops.

  123. 123.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Yatsuno: No but I once saw a poster that listed the characteristics of someone who might be a spy.

    1. Spends a lot of money.
    2. Frequent trips to Austria or Switzerland.
    3. Drives a sports car.
    etc.

    It turned out to be a pretty good description of junior officers who were single and skied – my circle of friends.

  124. 124.

    Yatsuno

    @mdblanche: This was controversial especially among the black tribes. A lot of the African societies frowned a lot on homosexuality as being demonstrated in Uganda today. But Mandela stood his ground on that issue.

  126. 126.

    Tommy

    @Interrobang: Was wondering if somebody would post some music from South Africa. I think Ladysmith Black Mambazo is the most well known. I mean working with Paul Simon can’t hurt. Stunning music IMHO. I don’t know the words I am singing, but I can sing a lot of songs they did.

  128. 128.

    Comrade Dread

    Yeah, I’m old enough to remember when the idea of ending apartheid in South Africa was generally frowned upon by the conservative establishment.

    But I’m sure it had nothing to do with race, because nothing ever has to do anything with race.

  131. 131.

    Yatsuno

    @mdblanche: There are several Evangelical churches in the US supporting the anti-gay laws in Uganda. So are several right-wing lawmakers including sitting members of the House. It’s not quite what Westboro does (they’re pretty much dirt poor anyway) but megachurch leaders like John Hagee have a large role in that.

    I think it’s meant as a counter to the SA Constitution. The fact that Ugandans are gladly playing along doesn’t help.

  133. 133.

    Mike in NC

    About 1992, when apartheid hadn’t yet gone away, alt-hist novelist Harry Turtledove wrote a book called “The Guns of the South” in which a bunch of South Africans in 2014 were able to time travel to America during the civil war to equip the Confederate army with AK-47s in order to turn the tide in their favor. Was probably a big hit among Republicans since the “good guys” were allowed to win.

  134. 134.

    Tommy

    @mdblanche: They came where I live. Years and years ago. I think like the first time folks protested them. A few hundred people showed up and held up poster broads to shield the family from them.

    Now I am not a violent person, but at a time they seemed to want to engage. Grandmothers went to engage them. It was only the police that saved Westboro from getting their ass pounded into the ground.

  135. 135.

    PsiFighter37

    @Plantsmantx: They can’t be that stupid, can they?

    Oh wait, nevermind. They most definitely can. I remember watching a documentary about Westboro…and then the guy making the documentary got brainwashed and became a part of their ‘church’. Man, it was some weird, twisted shit.

  137. 137.

    Chris

    @Yatsuno:

    Yeah, I always thought the Westboro Baptist Church were kind of a red herring. They’re unmitigated assholes, but they’re also freaks and outsiders and universally recognized as such; they don’t have a fraction of the power “mainstream,” “respectable” fundiegelical churches and organizations have, nor do they cause a fraction of the suffering that those mainstream churches do.

  138. 138.

    Yatsuno

    @PsiFighter37: Plane crash. Then I will know the FSM is good if she wipes out that whole family with one stroke of Her noodly appendage.

    They will take one look at the price of the plane ticket and demurr. Plus South African tort law is quite a bit different from the US version, and they make their money on lawsuits from assaults. If it doesn’t result in a few million rand for them they won’t be interested.

    (I just noticed the irony in the name of the South African currency.)

  139. 139.

    MikeJ

    The Grey Lady
    http://www.nytimes.com/1986/10/03/politics/03REAG.html

    A good example was Mitch McConnell, a first-term Republican from Kentucky, who said he was casting his first vote against the President on a foreign policy issue with ”great reluctance.” But on this question, the lawmaker said: ”I think he is ill-advised. I think he is wrong. We have waited long enough for him to come on board.”

    Wouldn’t it be fun to ask him tomorrow about why he stabbed St Regan in the back?

  140. 140.

    Tommy

    @PsiFighter37: If somebody sees a documentary on Jesus and becomes a Christan I can get that. Might not agree but I can get it. I guess I don’t know how you become a racist.

  141. 141.

    MikeJ

    @Yatsuno:

    Plane crash. Then I will know the FSM is good if she wipes out that whole family with one stroke of Her noodly appendage.

    What do you have against pilots?

    I’d like them to choke to death on their own bile and leave the innocents alone.

  142. 142.

    Origuy

    I doubt that Westboro will follow through on the threat to go to South Africa. They’ve claimed to be planning to appear at places and never shown up before. If they do go to the funeral, though, then someone is bankrolling them. Round trip flights to Joburg from the Midwest cost USD 2500 and up.

  144. 144.

    Tom Q

    It occurred to me earlier that apartheid evoked an unusually strong US response for an overseas issue. I think was because it had such strong echoes of the still relatively recent Civil Rights struggle: both the status of South African blacks and the loathsome quality of the Afrikaaner extremists.

    And I think the reason Mandela still irks the racist remnant at Breitbart’s is, he proved them wrong. The Afrikaaners, like Southern whites, had as their trump card the idea that, if you set these black men free, they would roam the land and seek revenge (and rape your women, and whatever other horror they could imagine). When Mandela did the opposite — eliminated every hint of payback from his presidency — their whole argument collapsed like a house of cards.

    Parenthetically: Obama of course has the same effect on American righties. They try desperately to pretend he’s a Bill Ayers/Marxist guerrilla, and call him that without evidence…but his even temperament — his refusal to stoop to their taunts — over time persuades the majority that those folks are full of it.

  145. 145.

    Yatsuno

    @MikeJ: Eggs. Omelettes. To move montains you have to make sacrifices. Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.

    (Any other trite clichés I could get in there?)

  146. 146.

    Chris

    @Tom Q:

    It occurred to me earlier that apartheid evoked an unusually strong US response for an overseas issue. I think was because it had such strong echoes of the still relatively recent Civil Rights struggle: both the status of South African blacks and the loathsome quality of the Afrikaaner extremists.

    I sometimes wonder if American public opinion towards Israel isn’t shaped by similar echoes – but in that case, echoes of our treatment of the American Indian populations rather than black people. (With the RWNJs living vicariously through their Israeli friends).

  150. 150.

    Tomolitics

    Best & funniest thread on the occasion of the passing of a human rights colossus? This one. What to contribute for us old enough to remember what it meant to be on the right side of history at the time in our own small way? I Ain’t Gonna Play Sun City

  152. 152.

    Heirn

    @Yatsuno: If you check out the main page it is tagged with satire, plus there is an article about the Chamber of Commerce calling businesses that didn’t open on Thanksgiving treason.

  154. 154.

    chopper

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Carlisle Olden-Whitely, chairman of San Narciso’s foremost conservative political action committee — the Association of Republican Seniors, Wives, Young Professionals and Entrepreneurs (ARSWYPE)

    i LOLed.

  155. 155.

    NotMax

    @Yatsuno

    Doubtless some clueless mouth-breather from the starboard side of the spectrum, somewhere on the interweb, has a screed up (replete with CAPS and exclamation points) about the death of Nelson Muntz.

  157. 157.

    MJ

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Same with current British leader David Cameron who, while in college in the 80s, was part of a conservative student organization that hung up “Hang Mandela” posters around campus. He tweeted some condolences – wonder if anyone in the British press will ask him about his anti-Mandela actions while in college.

  165. 165.

    Petorado

    The “F” in William F. Buckley stands for “Fuckin’ douchebag.”

    The saddest thing about Mandela’s passing is how few notable replacements we can see following in his footsteps. By himself, he changed the world for the better. Can’t give a higher compliment to a human being.

  169. 169.

    Lee

    @Baud:

    Did a bit of searching as well. It seems I can’t find anytime he spoke directly against him. Maybe his press releases?

    It also seems that part of it is that Mandela was caught in a power struggle between Congress and Reagan.

  173. 173.

    burnspbesq

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone):

    But that restraint on Mandela’s part is the reason South Africa is a reasonably functional state today instead of giving Somalia a run for its money.

    That’s the worrisome thing. Mandela effectively functioned as Jacob Zuma’s conscience. Now that he’s gone, who the hell knows what might happen?

  174. 174.

    Kyle

    @Suffern ACE:

    you overlook the finer nuances of apartheid. There were some good ideas, but they just went a little too far.

    I think a lot of teatards secretly dream of living in an apartheid state, where their skin color is all that’s required for a life of state-brutality-supported privilege and affluence, and they can smugly luxuriate in their hierarchical superior position over the people they fear and hate.

  176. 176.

    burnspbesq

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I dunno. I hope I can come back in five years and say I misjudged Zuma. Every time I see a picture of that guy, my mind inserts Mandela sitting on one shoulder whispering into one ear, and Mugabe sitting on the other shoulder whispering into the other ear.

    Hey Imperator Villago, while you’re making the streets run waist-deep in blood, can you send a spec ops team to take out Mugabe?

  177. 177.

    Mike G

    @Lee:

    Doonesbury did a great series of cartoons around the time Sun City was released, the storyline where Jerry Falwell organized a pro-Afrikaner band called “Apart-Aid”, with Ronald Reagan rapping on the track…

  178. 178.

    MikeJ

    @burnspbesq:

    I hope I can come back in five years and say I misjudged Zuma. Every time I see a picture of that guy, my mind inserts Mandela sitting on one shoulder whispering into one ear, and Mugabe sitting on the other shoulder whispering into the other ear.

    That sounds an awful lot like what World Nut Daily was saying in Weigel’s article.

  179. 179.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Lee: My memories of the time are that Thatcher made the overt statements but the Reagan admin and and the Thatcher government were solidly behind the Apartheid regime. Anti-communism, you know. It wasn’t so much what was said, it was what was done.

  182. 182.

    MikeJ

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    My memories of the time are that Thatcher made the overt statements but the Reagan admin and and the Thatcher government were solidly behind the Apartheid regime. Anti-communism, you know. It wasn’t so much what was said, it was what was done.

    Reagan said, “In defending their society and people, the Southern African Government has a right and responsibility to maintain order in the face of terrorists. “

  184. 184.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MikeJ: I should have been more clear. I meant specific comments about Mandela. Both Thatcher and Reagan made many strong statements in support of Botha’s government. And both called the ANC a terrorist organization.

  185. 185.

    PurpleGirl

    @Omnes Omnibus: I did the read the link, but didn’t realize it was satire. I wrote something before reading all the other comments. Hence I tried to retract the comment.

  187. 187.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Petorado: Saw them in London in ’84 and again in Columbus, Ohio, in 2000 or so. The London show was …wow. The Columbus show was still good even though it was only Lynval Golding and a couple of other original members.

  188. 188.

    Suffern ACE

    @Chris: Or about the looting of the Philippines – well at least not until that couldn’t be ignored any more. Sorry that was our guy transferring wealth to his family. Nothing to see there.

  191. 191.

    MikeJ

    It would be interesting to dig up some quotes from the Botha era and compare them to what people are saying about voting laws in North Carolina. I’ll bet you can find a lot of “If you let the [black people] vote we’ll never win another election!” in both sets,

  192. 192.

    pseudonymous in nc

    The modern conservative movement in the UK and USA is made up of people who, in the 1980s, were vocal advocates of the apartheid regime in South Africa. Young Tories and Young Republicans alike. (Though Young Republicans were more likely not to give a shit.)

  193. 193.

    scav

    @Chris: Apparently the disorder in Afghanistan was the our kind of disorder so legitimated too. Amazing how ass backward he managed to be on most continents and relationships — a talent that. Oh, These drug deals? Just say Yes.

  194. 194.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @pseudonymous in nc: Pretty much. South Africa was more important to British right than the American. Central America was more important to the American right than it was to the British. Obvious reasons for both.

  195. 195.

    pseudonymous in nc

    And yes, living through ’89 and ’90 in my formative teenage years was quite something. Litlebritdiftrnt might remember this, but there were complaints on the BBC when Mandela was released, because it was a Sunday afternoon and they pulled an episode of Antiques Roadshow. (I watched it at my grandma’s house, where we always went on Sunday afternoons.)

  197. 197.

    MikeJ

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    Though Young Republicans were more likely not to give a shit.

    The best demonstration I saw in college was one morning when you approached the main quad, every door on every building, every water fountain, every restroom had either a “Whites Only” or “Colored Only” sign. Of course it probably hadn’t been too terribly long since the buildings had had similar signs put up by the administration. [1] It wasn’t until the newspaper came out[2] that most people even knew what it was about, but it certainly got attention. I don’t remember what the YRs had to say, but I remember they were assholes, both in general and specifically about this.

    [1] I don’t know the history of integration on the Mizzou campus. They may have never had such signs. I do know that for a town in the midwest Columbia seems awfully southern.
    [2] When’s the last time that phrase was used?

  198. 198.

    ? Martin

    Ok, CA is starting to struggle with our exchange. They’re getting as many as 17,000 calls an hour, and have 25,000 paper applications to process. Apparently things REALLY picked up starting Dec 1.

  202. 202.

    Ruckus

    Just unfriended someone who posted that he wished that all the left leaning people would stop knocking Mandela because he was a good man.

    It was the last straw.

  203. 203.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Chris: No, this was before the elevation of total ignorance on the right. It was the era of Allan Bloom. Sarah Palin was only at her third college. There once were smart and knowledgeable conservatives. They were not a hardy breed as it turns out and the weeds of anti-intellectualism eventual strangled them. But once, they, like the dodo, did roam free.

    ETA: They usually managed to come to the wrong conclusions, but their arguments were well researched and well written. The empathy failure was the same we see now.

  205. 205.

    Ruckus

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    This.
    The only difference between conservatives of Buckley’s time and today? The volume is now at eleven. In his day they kept it at a pretty sedate 4. They aren’t less crazy they have just learned to be louder. All the time. About everything nothing.

  208. 208.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Petorado: Jerry doesn’t look good. The whole 2-Tone thing was significant. Race relations in Britain were really touched by that music. And it was danceable but not remotely disco.

  209. 209.

    Chris

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Huh.

    I’ve had a theory for a while that the biggest difference between the Nixon/Reagan generation of conservatives and the current one is that the previous generation grew up in a world that had been shaped by liberalism for many years – even if they were trying to overthrow that world, they still had to deal with it and be aware of it. Our conservatives, OTOH, have grown up in a world marked by conservative dominance. I think that’s made them live in their own bubble much more, hearing only the sound of their own voice – but I also think it’s just made them lazier all around. No need to work our way up the ladder of power; we have the power, let’s just enjoy it. (Nowhere is that more obvious than in Palin’s incoherent babbling and general laziness).

    Basically, the old generation of conservatives were the cutthroat capitalist assholes who built themselves up to a position of fortune and power. Now they’re dead, and their entitled brat children who inherited the fortune without having to work for it are running the show.

  212. 212.

    MikeJ

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    The whole 2-Tone thing was significant. Race relations in Britain were really touched by that music. And it was danceable but not remotely disco.

    2-Tone music was involved the first time a girl took me home in England, and she lived in Brixton.

  214. 214.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Chris: I am of an age with Palin. She was born in February of ’64 and I was born in in August of that year. I think it was a transitional time. I know, went to school with, and worked with old school, educated conservatives. They have disappeared from public view. Some went left. Some gave up on thinking. Really, if you want the intellectuals of the right from my youth, the cream of the crop are Andrew Sullivan and Niall Ferguson. Thatcherites. Bright and well-read, but empathy free.

  215. 215.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @MikeJ: FWIW I messed up what could have been a very good thing with a 19 y/o barmaid by mocking whatever album Paul McCartney came out with in 1984. I stand by my musical choice.

    ETA: I was only 20 myself at the time.

  216. 216.

    Petorado

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m of the same vintage, but I don’t get how a child of WWII-age parents can make a person feel that harboring hatreds winds up with a better world. Too much bad precedence to want to recreate previous mistakes.

  217. 217.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Petorado: Nor do I. Of course, I come from generations of left of center people. It affects my thinking. I will confess to pragmatism – willingness to take half a loaf in order to move forward – but that’s about it. I still look toward that city on a hill that my ancestors wanted (mine is closer to Denmark than they envisioned, but still).

  220. 220.

    Mnemosyne (iPhone)

    @Petorado:

    I’ve been listening to that song for over 25 years and it still makes me cry every single time I hear it.

    It’s obviously still very meaningful to Peter Gabriel, because he still performs it frequently.

  223. 223.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @NotMax: That weekend, without digging into photo albums, might well be the one where we tried to ski the liftline at Kirchberg. Too narrow a run to survive. I took a dive about halfway down.

  224. 224.

    Petorado

    @Omnes Omnibus: Props to you. Ands that’s sincere. My city on the hill is in another location, but no one should be without their own vision of it.

    @Mnemosyne (iPhone): Agreed. Music has more impact that just being a way to pass the time. I’m seeing it in my son, and wanting him to understand what’s behind the lyrics he hears.

  233. 233.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Petorado: Doesn’t matter. I would misuse it. I shouldn’t have it. I passed the test. I will diminish and go into the West and remain Omnes Omnibus.

  235. 235.

    NorthLeft12

    The plain truth of the conservative mind set is that they project their feelings onto their opponents, and assume that they will do exactly what the conservatives would do. In this case, the end of apartheid, the cons [in the place of the black Africans/Mandela] would have immediately began to settle scores and give the minority a taste of what they had lived through. They could not imagine that Mandela would think any differently and that he could preside over a peaceful transition.

    I’m not sure that we over here in North America can appreciate what an achievement this was by Mandela and the South African people. I sincerely doubt that the “civilized” West could match this achievement under similar circumstances.

  236. 236.

    NorthLeft12

    BTW, Here is another shocker……Buckley and the rest of the right wing pundits/politicians of the day were dead wrong. AGAIN.

    I wonder how many of them owned up to it?

  237. 237.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Really, if you want the intellectuals of the right from my youth, the cream of the crop are Andrew Sullivan and Niall Ferguson. Thatcherites. Bright and well-read, but empathy free.

    The kind of people who, as young Tories, may not have been singing “Hang Mandela”, but had friends who did. Cameron himself went on a sanction-busting trip to SA with other Tory policy people in the late 80s.

  240. 240.

    Howlin Wolfe

    @Chris: I think their euphemism at the time was “constructive engagement”, where the US and the UK would blandish big-brotherly guidance on how to take down apartheid one chain at a time, or something equally unreal and meaningless. They never said just *how* this was to be accomplished — it was a fig leaf so people like Darth Cheney could claim they weren’t actually for apartheid. It’s so disingenuous that it is constructively a lie.

  242. 242.

    Jamey

    @Culture of Truth: I rode up the elevator with Mandiba at a former place of employment, his book publisher. He was curious about the folding bike that was hanging from my shoulder (a Bike Friday that I used to commute from NNJ to NYC) and peppered me with questions till I reached my floor. Really warm-seeming guy; I consider having had the composure to engage in conversation with a historical figure one of the crowning moments of my life. Must have driven his security detail nuts with his gregariousness.

  243. 243.

    Jebediah, RBG

    @Jamey:

    I consider having had the composure to engage in conversation with a historical figure one of the crowning moments of my life.

    Good for you – I can imagine myself being a stammering, speechless maroon in that circumstance.

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