Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Anyone who bans teaching American history has no right to shape America’s future.

A thin legal pretext to veneer over their personal religious and political desires

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Narcissists are always shocked to discover other people have agency.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Let there be snark.

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

So many bastards, so little time.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Republicans do not pay their debts.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Stop using mental illness to avoid talking about armed white supremacy.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

It’s always darkest before the other shoe drops.

I know this must be bad for Joe Biden, I just don’t know how.

You are here: Home / Civil Rights / LGBTQ Rights / Gay Rights are Human Rights / Utah Comes Out (for Same-Sex Marriage)

Utah Comes Out (for Same-Sex Marriage)

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Per the Washington Post:

A federal judge on Friday ruled Utah’s same-sex marriage ban unconstitutional in a state dominated by the Mormon Church, one of the country’s staunchest opponents of gay marriage.

“The State’s current laws deny its gay and lesbian citizens their fundamental right to marry and, in so doing, demean the dignity of these same-sex couples for no rational reason,” Judge Robert J. Shelby, of the U.S. District Court for the District of Utah, wrote in his opinion. “Accordingly, the court finds that these laws are unconstitutional.”…

The decision, if allowed to stand, would make Utah the 18th state where same-sex marriages are legal and the second to allow them this week. Another southwestern state, New Mexico, became the 17th on Thursday when its Supreme Court ruled a ban there was unconstitutional as well….

This has been a banner year for the movement, with 10 states progressing toward same-sex marriage in some way, according to data maintained by the Human Rights Campaign, an advocate for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community. Bans have been overturned or marriages have begun — or have been approved to begin — in California, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Maryland, Minnesota, New Jersey, New Mexico, Rhode Island and, now, Utah.

Nationally, public opinion on the issue has flipped in the past decade. In 2003, 55 percent opposed gay marriage while 37 percent supported it, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll. Today, the sides have virtually switched, with 58 percent supporting it and 36 percent opposing, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll in March….

I am required by local custom to remind you that our great Commonwealth of Massachusetts retains the honor of having gotten it right first (thank you, Judge Marshall!). The home of the Church of Latter-Day Saints, however, remains a very big ‘get’.

Reader Interactions

150Comments

  1. 1.

    MikeJ

    It should be pointed out that the decision cites Scalia’s dissent in the DOMA case. Scalia said, if you use this standard, then not only should DOMA be struck down, most of the state marriage equality bans should be too. This judge said, yep, I agree, and that’s the current standard that the USSC is using.

  11. 11.

    CaseyL

    What I love about this story is that, within the hour, hundreds of couples were lined up to get marriage licenses; and the court clerks were issuing them as fast as they could.

    Part of the reason for the rush was to beat the Governor and AG’s intent to get a stay of the decision as soon as possible.

    But a lot of it was sheer romantic joy.

  12. 12.

    Alison

    @CaseyL: Agreed. My hope is that, as it’s always harder to take a right away from someone who is currently enjoying it than to simply decline to ever give it to begin with, there having been no stay and couples getting married right away will maybe keep the bigots from winning. It was such an awful situation here in California after Prop 8, and obviously I know Utah is different, but…I try to stay optimistic that people will err on the side of not wanting to wrest someone’s clear happiness out of their hands.

  13. 13.

    PhoenixRising

    The lines…the rush…the incredulity…brings back happy memories.

    Someone stuck a mike in my face that day 9 years and 10 months ago, & asked whether I felt different being married. I blurted out the truth: Yes! I don’t love my wife any more than I did yesterday, I’m not any more committed to my family, but I feel like a citizen for the first time in my life.

    Mazel tov, and remember, it’s two husbands per gay marriage, fellas. Even in Utah.

  14. 14.

    ruemara

    @MikeJ: I read that in the opinion and I laughed freer and easier than I have for a month. I wish we could get a shot of Scalia’s face when he heard that.

  15. 15.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Alison:

    My hope is that, as it’s always harder to take a right away from someone

    Yep. It does make it so much harder. Good for the people who have gotten married due to this decision. First, on a personal level. Iti is a big thing and congratulations to them. Second, it messes with any decision to possibly reverse. Excellent.

  16. 16.

    Ruckus

    @Alison: @Alison:
    I try to stay optimistic that people will err on the side of not wanting to wrest someone’s clear happiness out of their hands.

    Nice place to be but the people that wanted the law in the first place don’t care about anyone’s happiness, they just want everyone else to be bigots like them.

  17. 17.

    Petorado

    Gay marriage is now legal in every state in which Mitt Romney owns a home

    Wow! That’s a lot of states!

  19. 19.

    Alison

    @Ruckus: Well, see. My point is that you can’t really just write off an entire state of people as being This One Way, and there’s nothing wrong with hoping for a good outcome, nor is there any benefit to shitting on people’s hopes.

  27. 27.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Little Boots: Died before I was born. Liberal icon. Doesn’t necessarily deserve that status. Did the best he could in his circumstances. Parallels to Obama are not unwarranted.

  29. 29.

    Geoduck

    I read on another forum that only some of the county clerks are agreeing to issue the licenses; the ones in Salt Lake City are going at it, but out in (some of?) the ultra-boonies they are refusing.

    Imagine living in a place where Salt Lake City is considered a den of liberal hedonism..

  32. 32.

    Villago Delenda Est

    demean the dignity of these same-sex couples for no rational reason,

    Religious asshats do not need rational reasons for anything at all; they are utterly irrational to begin with.

  35. 35.

    Petorado

    @Geoduck: You’d be surprised. Having worked closely with an office in SLC, they remarked how liberal Salt Lake City is and how significant a gay culture they have there. All the resort towns in the hills are also relative bastions of hedonism, despite Mitt’s home(s) up there. That city has had Dem mayors since 1992, like Becker and Anderson.

  36. 36.

    David Koch

    The trick is whether the homophobes will appeal.

    Because if they do, the appeal could end up with the Supremes. And if they uphold the ruling, that state prohibitions violates equal protection, then gay marriage goes national.

  41. 41.

    Roger Moore

    @MikeJ:

    Scalia said, if you use this standard, then not only should DOMA be struck down, most of the state marriage equality bans should be too.

    And he was right for once. It’s just that he saw that as a justification for ruling against DOMA, rather than a reason for striking down state marriage discrimination laws.

  48. 48.

    Dr. Loveless

    Please, someone point me to some sites where the sweet wingnut tears are flowing! I almost OD’d on them after RMoney’s defeat, but with today’s news from Utah, my thirst for them is back.

  53. 53.

    Steeplejack

    I saw American Hustle tonight. Despite the title—I think American [anything] should be embargoed for at least five years—it really got me. It went in a different direction than I was expecting and ended up being much better than I expected. Great script, Oscar-bait acting. Heartily recommended to one and all.

  56. 56.

    Steeplejack

    @Little Boots:

    It was much more nuanced than I was expecting from the ads.

    I will say that they let the costume designer and set decorator really go to town. I don’t remember the ’70s being quite that kitschy. Christian Bale’s Elvis glasses are practically a character by themselves.

  60. 60.

    Yatsuno

    @Omnes Omnibus: Heh. We were having that conversation at work right before I left for the Big Adventure. We sometimes use TPH & TPW to denote issues but now that’s no longer going to be…accurate. It’s still being discussed but no final word.

    @Petorado: There are bars in Salt Lake City. With alcohol in them. Occasionally a council member gets up the idea to ban it all again, but the non-Mormons squak enough for it to die. Airport travellers. Also. Too.

  61. 61.

    ? Martin

    This is what I mean when I say we’re winning. Yeah, the GOP throws up every roadblock they can think of, but in the end they all fall. They succeed at delaying the inevitable, but our view is inevitable.

  63. 63.

    Suffern ACE

    @BethanyAnne: nope. That song was from MIKAs “I’m not gay. I might be straight as far as I know. Not that there’s anything wrong if I were. But no labels is where I am” phase. So it can’t be used as his gay anthem. It’s his coy no labels anthem.

  73. 73.

    Matt

    Here’s what’s great about being a Democrat in Utah today (from the Washington Post article):

    “It couldn’t be more exciting,” said Jim Dabakis, the head of Utah’s Democratic Party, who married his partner of 27 years, Stephen Justesen, on Friday afternoon, with Salt Lake City Mayor Ralph Becker officiating. Dozens of couples lined up to get married at the county clerk’s office after the ruling, Dabakis said. “There’s nothing but pure euphoria.”

    Becker, it should be said, is also a Democrat. Great stuff.

  74. 74.

    Steeplejack

    @Little Boots:

    Now you’re cooking! Actual ’70s story: I used to torment a coworker after work at the newspaper in the bar across the street by steadfastly maintaining that the title/lyric in this song was “Purty Little Love Song.”

    This could send me right down the Allman Brothers hole on YouTube, but I’ll step to the edge with Les Dudek, “Old Judge Jones.” And I’ll tip my glass to the bar at the Málaga Inn in old Mobile.

  77. 77.

    Omnes Omnibus

    Okay, FYWP why is an Ute Lemper version of Pirate Jenny a “bad” thing? Why moderation? Asshole.

  78. 78.

    Little Boots

    @Petorado:

    I’m kind of embarrassed to love this song as much as I do, but I’m kind of not. dammit, I’m a child of the seventies. this was our thing.

  79. 79.

    Matt

    And I am thrilled Judge Shelby noted something I’ve seen in my synagogues my whole life (from the Salt Lake Tribune Article):

    “If anything, the recognition of same-sex marriage expands religious freedom because some churches that have congregations in Utah desire to perform same-sex wedding ceremonies but are currently unable to do so,” he said.

    I think about half the rabbis I’ve known in my life were married lesbians. So, yeah, religious freedom means religious freedom!

  95. 95.

    Steeplejack

    @Little Boots:

    Good one. Steely Dan is one of my favorite bands. Go-to song: “Don’t Take Me Alive.”

    Agents of the law
    luckless pedestrians
    I know you’re out there
    with your rage and your megaphones

    P.S. The way you feel about “Brandy,” I feel about “Dancing in the Moonlight.” Can’t defend it on any level, but I love that song. Someone gave me the album back in the day. Even then it was a WTF moment.

  120. 120.

    mai naem

    The judge is an Obama appointee but he was approved by Hatch and Bennett so he’s probably a moderate. Also, he clerked for a Reagan appointee which makes me doubly think he’s just a moderate.

    On SLC – I had a friend who did her residency in SLC in the 90s. She said you had to go to the edge of town to go to a bar which served alcohol. She also rented a basement apartment in downtown SLC, an area she said was all owned by the LDS church or bigwigs in the church. She also said Mormons pretty much only shopped at ZCMI which apparently is owned by the church.

  132. 132.

    Steeplejack

    @Little Boots:

    Beautiful.

    Lightfoot is another one of those artists who, like Robert Palmer, had two distinct career phases: before the big commercial hit and after the big commercial hit. An early favorite: “Apology.”

    ETA: Previous version moderated because I fumble-fingered four links. FYWP.

  139. 139.

    Matt McIrvin

    This is very, very different from all the other recent cases. It’s a federal judge overturning a state ban on grounds that, if upheld by the Supreme Court, would lead to all the state bans being overturned, with no attempt to craft the objection narrowly. And it’s in a state where public support for same-sex marriage is as low as it gets.

    For the first time since 2004, I’m a little nervous about what the backlash will be like. (I suppose I’m more nervous about what people will do if/when the federal government overturns all the bans in the South.)

    But if it stands (probably less than an even chance, but it’s worth a shot), it’s the beginning of the end of this particular fight.

  140. 140.

    Matt McIrvin

    …So suppose it gets overturned at the Circuit or SCOTUS level. This is likely, but people in Salt Lake are already getting legal licenses and getting married. Do we then have another suit on grounds of the precedent of the overturning of California Prop. 8, that you can’t start issuing legal licenses and then take it back? I suppose that would only apply to Utah.

  141. 141.

    the Conster

    As a Masshole born and raised, I’ll never forget the day that Goodridge v. Board of Public Health came out. I was working in a big employment law law firm that represents big companies, so the implications of SSM were going to be huge. The decision was emailed to everyone – it was like waiting for a birth announcement – and it was such a beautifully and elegantly crafted decision that as a non-lawyer it brought me to tears with its force of rightness. One of the senior partners followed up with a query to the other attorneys – what is the flaw in the argument, and consequently the likelihood of it being successfully overturned? There wasn’t a single response, except in the affirmative – that it’s going to be the law of the Commonwealth from now on. Nothing and everything changed that day, and anyone who is against SSM shall look upon that opinion and despair.

  142. 142.

    Matt

    @mai naem: SLC has undergone a dramatic change since your friend was here, or your friend had an unusual experience. I moved here in 2006 and was pleasantly surprised at how progressive (re: flamingly liberal) the city is.

    One reason is that where most cities in the US have experienced ‘white flight’ in SLC we’ve seen ‘Conservative Mormon flight’. The result is a more diverse, more tolerant, and way lefty town.

    Remember that one of the big differences between a red and blue state can be the ratio of population living in the urban core vs. exurb and rural areas. Don’t paint states with broad strokes.

  143. 143.

    Jay C

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I know it’s probably going to be classed under the pissing raining-on-the-parade rule, but my first second thought on reading this decision was “Geez, the pushback on THIS one is going to be hellish!” As you point out, this is a differently-structured case regarding SSM: a Federal judge ruling a State-Constitution restriction invalid: thus implicitly “legalizing” same-sex unions: with NO input from either the State Government, the State courts, or the voters (all of whom might be reasonably assumed to uphold the ban by large majorities, but never mind). Yes, the ultimate issue (equality) is a vital and right one – but the Utah case raises a lot of issues which might not set precedents we’d like. Maybe.

  144. 144.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    @Alison: My point is that you can’t really just write off an entire state of people as being This One Way

    Except for Utah. People are constantly doing that about Utah, like when that idiotic boycott was suggested because the Mormon Church supported Prop Hate.

    But seriously. Thank you. I live in Utah and get mighty tired of that bullshit.

  145. 145.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    @Geoduck: Imagine living in a place where Salt Lake City is considered a den of liberal hedonism..

    I do – it’s called Salt Lake City. :)

    Please to not stereotype. SLC is much more cosmopolitan than its reputation; we end up with troglodyte reps and all because of decades-entrenched gerrymandering and a horrible Republican caucus system.

  147. 147.

    Xecky Gilchrist

    @mai naem: She also said Mormons pretty much only shopped at ZCMI which apparently is owned by the church.

    Your friend lived in a different Salt Lake City than I did during the 90s, then.

  148. 148.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Jay C: Of course, I also thought the reaction in Massachusetts back in ’04 was going to be much worse than it was. There was a national freakout that was used in Republican GOTV efforts in the election, but people didn’t riot on the ground, they just came out to the courthouse and got married.

  149. 149.

    J R in WV

    @Steeplejack:

    That’s Ms J R’s favorite cocktail, Mt Gay and tonic, with a big squeeze of fresh lime.

    Once they were out ot Mt Gay, and I bought Zacapa from Guatamala, high altitude grown cane etc. VERY good, less available, more expensive, tasty.

    I’ve moved to the Gin and Tonic world, Hendricks Gin when available, but Bombay more often, cheaper, nearly as good.

    Later we’re doing mimosas with left over Chandon while I make maple pecan pie and pineapple upside-down cake for Solstice Dinner next door. Should be a nice dinner party with most of our friends there. Not quite all, but most.

    Merry Holiday Solstice Season Everybody!!!!

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