We’re having a genuine blizzard here. It’s a Level Two, soon to be a Level Three (I don’t really know what the levels mean) and so we’re all closing everything up. They’re making fun of me in this office because we have the county emergency services agency/sheriff across the street and last time there was a Level Three they called me and told me to go home.
Me, specifically: “go home.” I didn’t know whether to feel cared for or picked on.
This time I looked out the window and I saw it coming so that’s progress.
We talked about this possibility in a primary (well, I did) former Montana Governor Brian Schweitzer so how about this?
If he weren’t the nation’s oldest governor, a ripe 75, Jerry Brown would automatically be counted among serious Democratic candidates for president in 2016.
He boasts a household name, an impressive list of accomplishments in the country’s most populous state — a state some once deemed ungovernable — glowing national media coverage and a deep familiarity with the pitfalls and rigors of a White House bid, having run three times before.
Now, some are pushing Brown to consider another try for the White House, even if it means taking on Hillary Rodham Clinton, the prohibitive, if still undeclared, Democratic favorite.
Asked if Brown would categorically rule out another presidential bid in 2016, a spokesman, Jim Evans, referred to a statement Brown made in May at a California Chamber of Commerce breakfast. Citing his past primary victories, Brown said “time is kind of running out on that.”
“I guess I’ll just have to stay and do the work of being the governor, which I actually enjoy because I have some perspective that I didn’t used to have,” Brown said.
The famously Delphic governor often leaves people guessing about his motivation and intentions, which leaves plenty of leeway ahead of 2016. Absent a clear-cut statement of disinterest from Brown — who sought the White House in 1976, 1980 and 1992 — some see familiar signs of a presidential-candidate-in-waiting.
He’s old, sure, but what are the other objections?
Or, you can talk about the weather or anything else.
I was a little surprised that Mossberg and Duck Dynasty waited until after Christmas to announce their new line of weaponry.
I’ll put this here too: Chris Kluwe on how and why he was fired from the Minnesota Vikings after speaking out on SSM. http://deadspin.com/i-was-an-nfl-player-until-i-was-fired-by-two-cowards-an-1493208214
RE: Jerry, part of why he has done well is how CA’s legislature is working.
Davis X. Machina
@flukebucket: It wasn’t a case of waiting till after Christmas. Everyone in the industry knows you can’t roll out a new product on top of the Newtown anniversary.
It’s just so unfair that Democrats have more than zero people qualified to be President. There ought to be a law against that.
Nah. He’s figured out California politics, but he’s not ready for prime time. Too hotheaded, for one thing.
He’s my governor. In a primary, if he’s running, I’ll pull the lever for HRC. I suspect that many California Democrats feel the same way I do. Brown is our governor, but it would be really unfair to the country to let him have a successful bid for President.
He didn’t marry Linda Ronstadt?
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@ranchandsyrup: He has more than two thirds Dems in the state Senate, IIRC? They have a supermajority rule on all spending, no?
@Mnemosyne: I seem to recall he went after Hillary in the ’92 Dem primary, and it got kind of ugly, especially for pre-internet politics. The Clintons have long memories.
You should have seen him the first time as Governor.
Snark aside, I’ve always liked Gov. Brown(both of them) and really wanted Jerry to win the Senate race in 82.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Happy Blizzard up there – as if there is such a thing. We’ve got just enough snow to be really pretty and only a medium pain the ass, and it appears to have finished falling.
I think it’s quite cute that they called you to send you home; I’d be quite pleased.
As to the famously Delphic governor, age is my only issue. And that’s because it means a really good VP is actuarily essential.
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: supermajority in both houses so they don’t need any R votes on spending.
I love him for this, but admittedly I’m obsessed, rapidly approaching single issue voter level of obsession:
He also asked when we reach “testing nirvana” so that’s great all by itself. Yeah! It’s ON! :)
Well, the Governor Moonbeam jibes (recycled though they may be) would be a nice break from the tsunami of anti-Hillary vitriol we’re sure to endure.
I’ve been getting texts and FB messages from friends in the path of the storm, and I’m hoping they all stay safe and warm.
But it’s a blizzard in January so where’s the global warming, amirite?
It just started snowing here. We’re not supposed to get much, but it is damned cold. (Obvs, nothing like Minnesota, and that’s why I don’t live in Minnesota.)
Citing his past primary victories, Brown said “time is kind of running out on that.” “I guess I’ll just have to stay and do the work of being the governor, which I actually enjoy because I have some perspective that I didn’t used to have,” Brown said.
Delphic! Translation: ‘I am busy being governor and I am too old to run for President. Don’t be a dork.’ He ran a losing campaign against a Clinton in ’92 – why would he want to do that again?
This. Brown wouldn’t have the kind of success he’s had if he didn’t have large Democratic majoritiesin both houses of the state legislature. I sincerely doubt he would look like a credible candidate had he been forced to get stuff through a Republican obstructed legislature, which is the situation I expect our next president to face.
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Michelle who works here is married to a sergeant, so I think they were really calling Michelle.
We get excellent police protection. Fabulous. They practically carry us to our cars.
@Kay: Been seeing traffic on twitter and FB about how awful and misleading Rhee’s ballot initiative is.
Sorry you can’t have him. Jerry is the best governor California has had in all the time I’ve been out here (since 77). He was governor then too and I liked him but didn’t have the perspective to see how good he is. I now do.
So please, with best wishes picks someone else to run against Hillary. Jerry will be re-elected Governor for his final term in public office.
Part of the appeal of sending him back to Sacramento (in addition to the comforting knowledge that he was a near lock to demolish the insufferable Meg Whitman) was the idea that this was his last stop and he could just govern for a term (or two if he felt spry enough), clean up the GOP’s messes, make some hard choices that perhaps a younger, more ambitious Democratic governor would avoid, and enjoy a well-earned retirement as one of California’s most-revered elder statesmen. I think part of the reason the political media is swooning for him at the moment is that he is sort of the de facto Republican in California’s legislative system now that the actual radicalized knuckledragging California GOP has been swept aside – he pushes back on Democratic legislators’ bids to restore spending, increase taxes or fees, etc. There’s nothing the pundits like more than a Democrat that pushes back against his own party.
I mean, I guess he can run for president, if he wants. But he’s pretty old and wouldn’t win. The nation at large probably still remembers him as Governor Moonbeam.
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
Not anymore. We finally did away with the 2/3 majority requirement for budgeting right in time for Gov. Brown to take advantage. What we haven’t done away with is the 2/3 requirement for tax increases. We actually got a tax increase, but that was by initiative rather than regular legislative action.
ETA: and we could get tax increases passed through the legislature now- there are enough Democrats to do it- but Brown has promised to put tax increases up to popular vote rather than passing them legislatively. He’s actually pretty damn fiscally conservative, at least in the traditional sense of not wanting to spend beyond revenue, and still as afraid of anti-tax backlash as you’d expect the governor in office when Prop 13 passed to be.
I’m hunkering down here with my home made bread, applesauce, and various projects as we head into a foot of snow. I’m also reading a great book “The Strange Death of Liberal England: 1910-1914” which just has to be one of the great political snark fests of all time. As I read it I realize just how much more sophisticated a reader I am, about politics, than I was when I was in college when I might have read bits of this for a class. Really reading and following US politics and particularly our struggles with an intransigent Republican party has made me understand English politics better. One reason is that the Republican party since Obama got in has tried to run the country as though we had a parliamentary system and certain power plays could “bring down the government” and force new elections. So as I read tales of parliamentary struggles, the house of lord’s veto over a budget, dissolving and reforming in order to pass legislation or break the back of the opposition I am reminded, ineluctably, of watching Nancy Pelosi pass the ACA or Harry Reid bust the filibuster.
There is no substantive difference between her and Scott Walker on public education. None. Change the language slightly and they’re both Milton Friedman.
@Kay: Heh indeedy. The good thing (from my limited observations) is that her “brand” is becoming toxic.
@aimai: An excellent book. And it fits in well with some of the ‘1914’ books that have been published in the past year or two. There’s a need to cut through the sentimentality about pre-1914 Europe– WW1 was a catastrophe, but it was very much a part of that world.
The bulk of the snow isn’t supposed to hit here in NJ till tonight, so hopefully everybody wil have time to get home safe. Figured it’d be a good soup night so made up a of pot tomato and chickpea soup. Hope the pinot grigio holds out.
MC Simon Milligan
He’s old, sure, but what are the other objections?
The suede denim secret police coming for my un-cool niece?
Well, someone had to say it.
The Pale Scot
Help needed. Me mum wants to contribute to a USA charity for injured vets, I showed her a list of recommended outfits from Charity Watch. But she’s got thing about the ratio of money spent on works versus fund raising from watching the tube. Before I go down the rabbit hole of examining finacial reports, (my personal OCD) Does anyone have a suggestion.
Spending the first day of my vacation at work. I’m looking out my window at ever intensifying snow fall and I think I need to get going home.
Her husband did a ed reform campaign tour where they dropped the word “reform” (reform is a dirty word, was the headline) so I thought that was amusing.
I love how it’s a very sophisticated and well-funded political campaign but they keep whining about people bringing DIRTY POLITICS into it. They’re lobbyists. I don’t know why I’m not allowed to use dirty, rotten POLITICS when they’re professional lobbyists. That hardly seems sporting!
Remember when conservatives used to whine that liberals were “criminalizing politics” during the Culture of Corruption years? Now they just deny “politics” altogether, but only on one side.
The age thing isn’t a non-issue.
If elected in 2016, he would turn 79 three months after taking office. That would making him the oldest person elected to a first term by almost 10 years. Reagan was elected at 69 y.o. and went senile in office.
Anyone seen any interesting take on Sotomayor’s ruling?
Brown would make a dandy presidential candidate, but I think he’s doing a lot more good as governor of CA, and evidently he thinks so too. So I’m happier to see him stay put. Hillary is no prize from a rock-ribbed progressive standpoint, but she’s overwhelmingly preferable to anyone the GOP is going to be running for the foreseeable future, and that’s an understatement. For that reason alone, I 1) want her to win the nomination if she in fact is the most electable Dem, and 2) will work my can off to help get her elected if she does win the nom.
We’re supposed to get lots of rain here. The mister has a bunch (as in four large trays filled with containers of) starter plants for the winter garden, which he had put under the shed roof so they wouldn’t drown. When the sun came out late this morning, he called and asked me to schlep them out in the sun, which I did. But now it looks like it’s going to rain after all, so I’m going to have to schlep them right back under the roof. Ugh. Oh well, at least there’s no snow.
Five inches of snow overnight and flurries today here in SW Ohio, but the temps are falling fast and gusty winds are picking up. Our house is going to feel mighty cold tonight. I don’t mind the snow, but sub zero temperatures are bad news.
@Kay: Those sorts of pivots should show the weakness of their position. Unfortunately the pivots are very effective. Takes some hard work to drag the convo back. Frustrating (and they count on that frustration).
@The Pale Scot: reached out to a friend that is involved with disabled vet hiring and some wounded warrior charities and will let you know. if needed, you can contact me at my nym at gmail
Cheers to you and your mum.
@Cacti: senile or Alzenheimers? The end result was the same.
@liberal: RE: Sotomayor — I haven’t seen anything interesting online (just a dunderhead or two screeching incoherently about popery is all I’ve seen on the webs), but I talked to a lawyer friend who had some interesting insights. Long story short: Will have to wait and see, but the case she issued the stay on has some unique factors, i.e., it ain’t Hobby Lobby, and it’s too soon to read much into it.
I lurves me some Jerry 2.0, and am willing to go to the mat to keep him for term the fourth as opposed to running for president.
I have no doubt he healthy enough to keep working at his current pace (per staffers, he’s still the detail-oriented wonk he always and they have to be super prepared for him when reviewing bills, etc.).
I do not think he can handle the physical rigors of two years of presidential campaigning. Period. For one thing, his voice wouldn’t survive–it’s already reduced to a husky whisper much of the time. All that travel takes its toll and unlike, say, C-Plus Augustus, he would run his own damn campaign, or at least grill his campaign managers in real time.
Nope, don’t think it will happen, but Jerry being Jerry, he’ll allow the flattery for awhile.
I want Kirsten Gillibrand to run, personally.
I don’t know. I feel like it’s building but I’m involved in it so I’m probably exaggerating the “momentum” or whatever.
I’m going to this public ed advocates convention in Austin just to see what that’s like.
My daughter’s coming with me, but only because she wants to get out of Pittsburgh for a coupla days in March and I’m paying. We’ll have fun traveling, in any event.
I didn’t see that coming, I’ll tell ya. I was really pretty shocked.
The Pale Scot
@ranchandsyrup: Thanks, I’ll be of the grid for a bit, talk to ya later.
@Kay: Cool! Enjoy Austin, it’s a great town. Do a meetup like Cole did down there and have some BBQ. :)
I’ve lost track; am I supposed to be in favor of firing the Duck Dynasty Dude for speaking his mind and not be in favor of Kluwe losing his job for the same?
Bottom line for me, both losing their jobs (the DDD for being a racist more than being a homophobe, but his racist comments got lost in the mix) is just fine; Kluwe should have known the NFL doesn’t like boat rockers (I think it’s 15 yards for taking off your helmet; they seek total conformity).
I am very conflicted about Hillary in 2016. I still think about her vote in favor of the Iraq war. There were only 2 possible reasons to vote in favor of that war:
1. she actually thought it was a good idea to invade a country that had no connection to 9/11, with no real plan for how to run the occupation, or
2. she was trimming to the political winds.
If I — an ordinary citizen without extraordinary news sources or brains — could figure out that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 and the drive to invade was pure hysteria, anyone could.
Which leaves #2, trimming to the political winds. In other words, she knew better but didn’t have the guts to stand up for what she knew.
I don’t want someone like that to be President, and the biggest reason I voted for Obama and supported him in 2008 was that he had been against the Iraq war.
@The Dangerman: I’m with you, Danger. Both can be fired, both said what they needed to say. The tribalistic reactions (or lack thereof) are the interesting part
“Glowing national media coverage”?
No. Paul Ryan has “glowing national media coverage.” Chris Christie has “glowing national media coverage” — or did until this bridge unpleasantness. Brown’s coverage is: Weird frickin’ hippie, that guy, but he seems to be just sane enough to be doing an okay job, for now.
@The Dangerman: There’s no hypocrisy/inconsistency in supporting the suspension of the Duck Dynasty guy and opposing the firing of Klue. You can support the decision in one instance and not in the other and have a perfectly consistent position on the legality/constitutionality of what was done.
If what you’re talking about is the employer’s right to fire the employee (and note that A&E was not the duck dynasty idiot’s employer anyway) that’s where consistency of your position would matter.
you can be for the firing of one and against the firing of the other. Example, i want a nazi fired for saying jews are a crime against nature, and i dont want a jew fired for saying nazism is a crime against nature. What differentiates among the opinions to be fired is public opinion about what is acceptable discourse. If the NFL thought there would be public backlash, they would backdown, not unlike a certain network that will remain nameless. Sometimes the slippery slope is the world we have to live in and only our judgment differentiates the exceptions rather than a rote rule.
Indeed; the same thing happened yesterday during the Rose Parade. FWIW, I would be against a “straight” marriage on a float; it is a little too exhibitionist for me. Same for a gay marriage…
…and, worse, it was on an AIDS campaign float. How many millions have been spent trying to make sure people know that AIDS isn’t just a gay disease? Talk about screwing up the message.
Paul in KY
@aimai: I have read that book. Highly recommend it. Wasn’t it completely stupid that when the Liberals had that historic majority, that they let the Conservatives goad them into calling early elections, when they could only go down (given what they had)?
I know you asked what other objections, but for God’s sake the man would turn 80 before he reached the midpoint of his first term. If you think Reagan was nine years too young, Brown’s your man.
She’s funny. She was in high school the first time Sherrod Brown ran and she picked up a bumpersticker at some “event” we dragged her to, like, between two fingers, holding it out, and said “is he going to win?”
She associated me with loser candidates during that period, and she didn’t want a loser on her car :)
She votes though, so she did get that.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@The Dangerman: the most amusing thing to me was Leslie Frazier telling Kluwe the a “wise coach” once told him that two subjects should never be discussed by an NFL player are “politics and religion”. /spit take/
First of all, you wonder if the “wise coach” was Ditka (though I can’t imagine his biggest fans calling him “wise”), loud-mouth right-winger. Also, too, we’d all run out of fingers counting the players who make Jeebus-fueled and often directly political hack statements. And owners.
/edited for a little bit of coherence anyway
More precisely, Jerry Brown belongs to the wrong generation. If he were to run in 2016 and win, Barack Obama would then be succeeded by a man born just two years after Barack Sr. Obama represents a change of generation that I think the Democratic party should build on. It’s tempting to look for a sure winner, and right now Hillary and maybe Joe Biden look like it could be them. But I reckon the party should look for a candidate in their forties to early fifties — about Obama’s own age right now.
Secretary Clinton scares me in only one real way. I think that she tends towards reactionary when it comes to militarism. Obama at this stage has pretty much told the Saudis and the the Israelis that he won’t get bullied into a war with Iran on their terms.
I don’t know if Secretary Clinton would be able to hold the line.
Paul in KY
@Anniecat45: I personally think she was trimming. Unfortunately, it is a tried & true political tactic (in abstract). That vote was so monumental, though…
Yeah, I don’t see the connection and further, nobody had the balls to say that Kluwe was canned for sticking up for teh gheys. His job was to win football games; beard guy’s job is to entertain mouthbreathers and people who enjoy making fun of mouthbreathers. The network probably knew it was only a matter of time before he stepped on his own dick.
@The Pale Scot:
For my mom’s Christmas present, I made a donation to Fisher House on her behalf. They have a good reputation and apparently spend something like 90 percent of their funds on programs. It’s basically a “Ronald McDonald House” for veterans’ families so they have somewhere to live while their family member is undergoing treatment at the VA.
I’ve always thought that about her too, which is why I was happy to have Obama as an alternative in 2008.
Will have to see what the future holds. My votes are usually based on what is best chance to keep GOP out of office, so I am usually voting for lesser of two evils.
@Kay: Can tell how proud of her you are from your writing. Makes me smile. :)
Anybodybuthim or her.
Paul in KY
@Anybodybuther2016: If the ‘her’ is Mrs. Clinton, I’ll take her any freaking day of the week over any sentinent-or-other being that would run with ‘R’ after their name.
I don’t get it. Brown’s out too? In addition to Clinton?
Alzheimer’s disease is a specific form of senility, not a different thing.
I agree that Jerry’s probably too old and too smart to run for president again, but it would be nice to make amends for foisting Ronald Reagan on the nation.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Paul in KY: I think a lot of Senators (and Pundits) thought Uncle Colin would/could reign Junior in short of actual invasion, and while that doesn’t excuse it, I think the difference between Hillary and other Dem supporters of the war was her refusal to admit it was a mistake, down to the sneering contempt with which she discussed Obama’s (and by extension my) opposition to the war as late as ’08– “just a speech. In 2002”. I also think that statement was more Bubba-fueled resentment of That One than an actual reflection of her opinion, which actually makes it worse in a way.
That would be but a small downpayment (plus we still need to atone for Nixon).
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
FWIW, the speech pattern you referenced is “conventional” and the one I referenced is “rocking the boat”; we will progress to a point where that won’t be true in the future, but cultures (in particular, the “American” culture) change slowly. Hell, in the USA, it’s literally built into the system of governance.
Also, FWIW, I have no doubt people are born LGBT; I can’t imagine using a word or phrase intended to mock them. Similarly, some people are born “spiritual”; I find mocking phrases such as the one you used (and others such as “invisible sky fairy”) to be rather unkind to others. I wish it would end in this forum.
@Kay: Anybodybuther2016’s name should be Nobodybutme2016.
. This. She is amoral and every last one of you know it.
Snow has started in south-central PA, with 5 to 6 inches predicted by tomorrow morning.
@GregB: I still get the whiff of DLC-ism from her. Nothing I can point to directly, just a feeling. Also I would prefer a younger candidate, although I’ll take winning over ageism.
@The Pale Scot: Check out GuideStar. They aggregate the 990’s of charities and give a good analysis of how the money’s spent, % of funds used for admin, etc.
I also remember that this is the woman who attempted to write a universal healthcare law.
What we also need is both houses of Congress back.
But I’m in the Anyone-not-a-Republican camp.
How the heck do I “know it”? Is there a meter or something?
Kluwe’s note is about what a jerk his former boss is. He never states that they can’t fire him, just that they’re a bunch of cowards for not being honest to his face.
And the Duck Dynasty guy was given a very short time-out and is back on the show that he never left. Suspiciously just in time for the new season and for the Mossberg weapons to come out. I know Mossberg does make popular shotguns, but I hope they charge the rubes a mint for some stupid tie-in.
The problem with Hillary Clinton isn’t that she voted for the Iraq War.
The problem is that she never apologized for it.
After one trillion dollars, thousands of soldiers killed, and thousands upon thousands more maimed for life..
and she can’t apologize.
Another problem with her is all the scumbags that come with her.
Does anyone believe that we’d have the ACA with a President Hillary?
That we wouldn’t have gone into Libya AND Syria?
come on, now.
Jerry Brown is too old, but we should be looking for alternatives for ‘ inevitable’ Hillary – I can’t tell you how much the ‘inevitable’ thing irks me…her ass needs to run and win like all other candidates…how come she thinks it should be handed to her?
Paul in KY
@Roger Moore: Disagree. Alzheimers is a disease. A pathological build up of plaques in brain. Brings mental & physical degradation (due specifically to the disease).
Senile Dementia is a fancy-pants way of saying “your brain is older than dirt & ain’t getting any younger”. It brings mental degradation & does not have the physical degradation that you get with Alzheimers.
@burnspbesq: Thanks. That’s the first discussion I’ve really seen of it (apart from vacuous discussions on TPM and DK).
@Anybodybuther2016: Certainly not. She is not at all amoral. Actually, if you look at the way she has lived her life she has basically dedicated herself to public service–any account of her time as First Lady, as Senator, or as Secretary of State shows someone who is a public service workaholic. She could have retired at any point after Clinton was president and lived a life of useless luxury. She has always chosen to work hard in what most would consider an extremely thankless public job.
@Paul in KY:
Is that really true? I’m almost positive that there are non-Alz forms of dementia that are accompanied by pretty severe “physical” degradation.
Plus, while I assume almost everyone’s brain function declines quite a bit in very old age, I’m under the strong impression that there’s quite a few people who don’t suffer all that much degradation.
Paul in KY
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist: Anyone who thought Dubya wasn’t frothing at the mouth to be a ‘war president’ (and stomping on mud huts in Afganistan doesn’t count), was smoking way better stuff than I ever get.
I think she felt it would pass whether she voted for it or against it & if it did work out (somehow), she would be on the ‘right’ side of the issue. If that is true, what she didn’t realize was that there were important Republican factions who didn’t want it to work out (invade & take over & do a credible job of making Iraq into a better state).
Yawn. It doesn’t really matter what her inner morality is. What matters is what she does, and how predictable her future actions as president would be given her past actions and statements.
Could someone explain more about why the education reform bill that Brown vetoed in CA was a bad thing? On the surface, you’d think reducing reliance on standardized testing would be a step forward, so I’m curious to learn.
You should be pleased to hear that school “reform” advocates don’t have a clear field in California ballot initiatives. There is also a proposed ballot initiative that would force charter schools to abide by public record and conflict of interest rules and ban charters from being run by for-profit entities, and one that would require low-performing charters to hire only credentialed teachers and administrators. It’s about time for people to rein the charters in.
Paul in KY
@The Dangerman: If your faith is secure, use of ‘Jeebus’, ‘Invisible Sky Fairy’ etc. should just make you chuckle & look forward to that blessed day when people using those phrases will see how wrong they are/were.
@rikyrah: Well, I suspect she remembers how it was handed to her in 2008, when she was inevitable. And by it, I don’t mean the nomination.
Hillary is the presumptive nominee just like she was in 2008 until something better came along (which wasn’t hard). The Clinton wrecking crew is trying to intimidate anyone who would dare challenge their do nothing passive aggressive queen by already declaring her the nominee and the winner. You people seem to be as arrogant and entitled as her.
Paul in KY
@Anybodybuther2016: They are ALL amoral to one level or another. The last truly ‘moral’ President we had was Abe Lincoln & you see what happened to him.
Come down from Planet Purity to Planet Reality…
@Kay: Interesting group. I might consider going myself; the airfare is certainly reasonable enough. Looks like they haven’t given out too many other details, like exact location. Or did I overlook that?
That’s certainly an interesting “donut hole” — a self-insured Catholic organization whose third-party administrator is also a Catholic organization, so there is no secular administrator who could accept federal payments for contraception.
Paul in KY
@rikyrah: Joe Biden & that Montana dude would be alternatives (at present time). Sure more will appear.
@Paul in KY:
Given limits on American tolerance for American casualties as well as (political) limits on what could have been spent, there’s no way we could ever had made Iraq into a better state.
@rikyrah: I agree with this. No one gets excited about a candidate being “inevitable.” And what will all the horse race journalists do if all we have is Hillary the Inevitable?
I am not concerned about the horse race journalists being out of work, but I am concerned about them maliciously torpedoing a candidate that they do not like.
@Paul in KY: I think she felt, and not without reason, that her being opposed to military action would almost certainly be caricatured as feminine weakness. Maybe that’s not so much of a problem anymore, with more women in the Senate and in high-profile diplomatic posts, but I think it weighed on her: “don’t give anyone an opportunity to say, ‘pfft, typical woman.'”
Paul in KY
@liberal: Remember, that ‘physical degradation’ in senile dementia is not from that, it is because the person is physically old (and thus degrading). In Alzheimers, if you are unfortunately young when you get it, you get the physical degradation that the disease brings on (at an age when that shouldn’t occur).
Paul in KY
@liberal: Responding to this excerpt: ‘Plus, while I assume almost everyone’s brain function declines quite a bit in very old age, I’m under the strong impression that there’s quite a few people who don’t suffer all that much degradation’
Then those lucky souls do not get ‘senile dementia’. Not everyone gets it. Most get it to one extent or another (if you live into late 80s & beyond), but there are some fortunate seniors who don’t ever get it.
@Paul in KY:
Hear you: Hillary Clinton may be a flawed candidate for a lot of people: but she IS a good politician – and still better (by miles) than anyone you can seriously float as a Republican candidate. It may an unpopular opinion, but I still think the best tack for Clinton to take if/when she runs in 2016 is to try to frame her candidacy as a “third Obama term” – don’t make Al Gore’s 2000 mistake and run away from popular programs and policies – push the positives that 8 years of a Democratic Administration have accomplished; highlight Republican obstructionism and extremism; and point out the reflexive Obama-bashing for the tribalistic BS it is: IOW, run smack against what the GOP thinks are their “strengths” – classic Clinton strategy.
Oh, and that “anti-Hillary vitriol”? What do they have left to base it on? Sensationalist smears from 20+ years ago that didn’t even have all that much traction when they were fresh? Benghazi!?? Puh-leeze…..
@Paul in KY:
Not about security; it’s about tolerance. I find it curious that those that want tolerance are often the first ones not to offer it to others. Very odd.
@Paul in KY:
No, it isn’t. Dementia is specifically a cognitive decay that is much faster than that normally expected from aging. It is a syndrome, meaning that it’s a group of symptoms without a uniform cause. Alzheimer’s is a specific form of senile dementia and qualifies as a disease.
Paul in KY
@liberal: Oh, you can see in hindsight that if we had done 20 or so different things (not allowed the looting, not purged all the Baathists, etc. etc.) & had much, much better people in power, etc. the reconstruction could have been so much better than what it was.
But those bad decisions were generally made by people who never wanted a functioning Arab state.
@FlipYrWhig: Bingo. That doesn’t excuse it in the least, of course. Obama’s “dumb war” speech was one of the reasons I supported him over Clinton from before Iowa. However, it’s certainly possible she’s learned from that experience — she’s no dummy, and she has serious foreign policy chops now that she lacked back then.
I’m a Yellow Dog Democrat, so if Clinton is the nominee, I’ll certainly vote for her. Is the “inevitability” thing annoying? Yeah, but let’s not forget the media is trumping that BS line up, not HRC herself. I’m still not convinced she’s even going to run. We shall see.
@Paul in KY: @Paul in KY:
Give me an example of how PBO is personally amoral.
Paul in KY
@FlipYrWhig: That’s sadly like Johnson not wanting to be seen as wimpy (when personally he was sorta wimpy).
I’ve loved Jerry Brown since his first run for the Presidency in 1976. He’s learned how to govern effectively the hard way. Maybe it’s even harder, starting out as well as he did, then crashing and burning for a few years before starting all over again.
SFAIK, he’s in very good physical and mental condition. 75 is a bit up there for embarking on a Presidential bid – but our notions of what is “too old” need to change in view of how vigorous people can be well into their seventh and eight decade. I think gerontologists now consider the 70s to be “young-old” (with 80s as middle-old, 90s as old-old, and 100+ as “wow”).
Still and all, running for the job is nothing to compared to actually having the job in terms of how it ages you.
I’d be concerned how Brown would deal with an emergent crisis, when loads of information is coming in all at once, and he’d have to sift it for usable data, meet with multiple department managers to discuss options while the media and citizenry are screaming at him for action! now! and there are clocks ticking all over the place. Working under crisis conditions is a real test of mental alertness and physical stamina.
That, and his age would make his VP pick an issue of critical concern.
Paul in KY
@The Dangerman: I have the utmost tolerance for you & others to practice your religion. Now, my opinion of your religion is my opinion (nothing more or less).
Please don’t confuse the two.
And another weather update: from Scenic Western Massachusetts* : the dire storm that was predicted for the region hasn’t – so far- been all that bad. About 3-4 inches of snow overnight: light falls most of today: not even much wind. It’s fairly cold, of course (17.6F as I type this), but all in all, nowhere near as bad as it might have been. Of course, more is predicted for tonight, so we’ll see….
* perched at a dizzying 820 feet above sea level, according to my car’s altimeter (which I hadn’t known I’d had until two weeks ago!)
Paul in KY
@Roger Moore: OK, Alzheimers is a disease, though.
Whereas Senile Dementia is a fact of life for those whose brains are not as physically robust as others (IMO).
No, they haven’t given out details yet. They said they would email, so I’ll get it to you if you want.
I helped with a bond campaign here and we won so that was encouraging. I always think I will win, you know, right up until I don’t :)
The conversations in the course of that were really interesting. I think, I believe, that they do not know how strongly people are attached to public schools, as a concept or part of their community, history, etc. Anyway, I think the whole thing is fascinating, politically. It has like 5000 layers. The whole “charitable foundation” question is a story all by itself. I’m not really comfortable being the object of charity. I don’t remember asking for “help”, I don’t think these “gifts” are gifts at all and I like to elect representatives.
No, you’re supposed to be in favor of firing the Duck Dynasty dude because he’s an asshole and says things publicly that would get a lot of people hurt if they became conventional wisdom. Both employers have a legal right to fire employees for saying things, and we have a right to withhold business employers who make decisions we wouldn’t. I think most of us here agree with Kluwe and disagree with Robertson. I also think most of us are smart enough to know this is about equality, not free speech.
Paul in KY
@Anybodybuther2016: I’m not going to diss my president just for your jollies. I notice you didn’t list all the other presidents since Lincoln.
The last perfect man was crucified, they say…
@Anybodybuther2016: I’m intrigued by your username. So you’d prefer President Ted Cruz or President Chris Christie to President Hillary Clinton?
Among other things, Brown has an inspiring comeback story. He went from governor down to kind of a nobody to mayor of Oakland and then back to governor of the nation’s most populous state and one of the world’s largest economies. And he seems to be lifting mountains now.
I’ve been thinking about life as I face a lesser but still depressing age number, and I find Brown’s story really encouraging.
@Violet: Maybe Ralph Nader will run.
I have gotten so much shit for wanting a younger candidate. It makes sense for the party and the country’s future. Plus, I don’t want to live through another presidential campaign about the Vietnam War like we did in 2004. That generation can’t stop re-litigating that war.
@Paul in KY:
I think you’ve demonstrated that isn’t true, but tell yourself it is if you like.
I’m against Hillary 2016 mainly because I think she’ll lose. She’s the wrong person for the times, is the closest I can come to an explanation.
I do too. I like the fact that he’s been there and back. Reading the thread, HOWEVER, they have a point on his age. The Reagan comparisons are relevant. Can’t get around it.
If you are worried about Brown’s age, you should be worried about Hillary’s age. She’ll be 69 in 2016. That is too damn old to be starting one of the most stressful jobs on the planet.
@Paul in KY: You can’t name anything because as far as we know he is a good man with good morals, values, integrity, honesty and class. He has impressed me as a hardworking, intelligent, thoughtful and dignified human being, everything that Hillary’ isn’t. I don’t have to go back 20 years or five years to “dig up dirt” on Hillary this woman had the audacity to confront her assistant about her husbands infidelity just a few months ago because it may effect her campaign. I guess she didn’t want anybody to remember that whole Lewinsky thing and how stupid she looked defending Bill.
@Anybodybuther2016: I’ll give you one: His views on gays and gay marriage and how they changed.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@Ridnik Chrome: In my two-bit internet commenter’s opinion, she’s the strongest candidate the Dems have, I don’t think O’Malley is ready for prime time, I love Joe Biden but he’s (I think) a three-time loser now for the Big Chair? Cuomo? Ugh. Schweitzer? Gillibrand? We’ll see who actually jumps in. But I was late to the Obama train, so what do I know? That said, the biggest danger for her campaign (in that same two-bit opinion) is her most passionate supporters, who are likely to make the same mistakes they made in ’08, and the Ed Rendells and James Carvilles and Bill Clintons who I fear won’t be able to resist making 2016 some kind of “this time we’ll get it right” re-fight of ’08
Looks like the turning of the calendar for a new year brings out the paid to post concern trolls. VICTORY?
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
O’Malley can get ready by the time the Iowa caucuses roll around. Hillary and Obama all got much, much better by the time the caucuses rolled around. His problem is going to be getting media coverage as the media will be giving Hillary 90% of the coverage and attracting top talent for his campaign. Right now too many of the Obama team are latching pathetically on to Hillary in the hopes that she’ll give them jobs. Won’t happen. The Clintons demand absolute loyalty. I can’t see them hiring anyone from the 2008 Obama campaign in a senior position.
Obama keeps sending drones to take out wedding parties, but Hillary is like the WORST because she had the audacity to confront her assistant! Man, I hope nobody thought the haters were ever going to mellow out.
Many assumed he’d be a one-term governor this go, but he’s more than proved he has the temperament and energy for the job. But to reiterate from above, I don’t believe he’d have the stamina for a two-year national nomination fight and general election campaign grind.
I think you had to live here to appreciate how easy his election campaign was. The primary was probably tougher and for the general, he laid low so long while Megs was carpet-bombing the state with her tens of millions we were getting nervous, especially when she was outpolling him. But he’s a smart guy and won overwhelmingly. To get reelected, here’s what he needs to do: file.
It will be that easy.
That’s not quite right. I don’t want to see an apology from HRC.
What I do want, if she’s going to run, is a statement that she voted for the invasion, that was a mistake, she has learned the following lessons from it, and she pledges not to make the same mistake again.
Sorry doesn’t cut any ice with me. I want better actions in the future, not regret for the past.
@Paul in KY:
I’m not sure about that. My late grandmother started sliding towards dementia in her 90s, but it always seemed to me that it happened because she was almost blind and almost deaf at that point, so she kind of lost contact with the rest of the world. Her brain was still very strong and if you got close enough that she could see and hear you, she was still very “with it,” but she lost track of where she was and who she was with because she couldn’t see or hear clearly.
@Betty Cracker: I don’t think she’ll run. Is she willing to campaign for another 2 years? I don’t think so.
She knows first hand, from the 2008 campaign, just how draining a campaign is. You could see in 2008 that Obama GOT energy from campaigning, but it seemed the opposite was true for HIllary. This time around she would be 8 years older, and I don’t think she’ll do it.
I think she’ll go out on top, with a very respectable times as Secretary of State under her belt, and she won’t subject herself to all the attacks again. She’s not stupid, and she can surely see they have already been dusting out the same old crap.
@BillinGlendaleCA: Yes, his dad was a good guy but under-estimating gubernatorial candidate Reagan was a bad mistake. He paid for it but so did all of us, and we’re paying still.
Jim, Foolish LIteralist
@WaterGirl: If I had to bet, I’d bet she’ll run, but I won’t be shocked if she doesn’t. She was already ambivalent in ’08, according to some sources, aka gossip, but gossip I found credible.
@Violet: Ted Cruz will never be president of this country. Christie could be if he lost weight and looked good afterwards. Fuck Nader. Sorry but PBO haz spoiled me. I think it’s good for our country to have someone that we admire leading it.
Gotta say that I know women who voted R for years now (not PUMAs because they’ve been R forever) who would vote for Hillary. I’m not all that convinced she’ll run either, but a lot of women from both parties want the chance to see a strong effective woman in the White House.
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
But, she’s got Bill Clinton and the bitter Clintonites like Rendell and Carville pushing her to run and prove that the country made a mistake in 2008. Not sure she’ll be able to resist their egging her on.
Stay safe, Kay. And warm.
I can see where your thoughts might turn to California dreaming.
Need to read your links and comments, but what’s a Jerry Brown thread without the first dog in it too?
Elizabelle hearts Sutter Brown
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
they are her she is them, birds of a feather and all that.
@Jim, Foolish LIteralist:
I think she’s the strongest Dems have too, I also think she’s absolutely running.
I want to give her credit where it’s due, too. She is popular among Democrats here. They supported her in 2008, they meant it then and they mean it now. I have LESS of a sense of “she’s a woman and we want a woman” than many I have read here, because the truth is a lot of her supporters here are men.
I’m the opposite of the narrative around her. I didn’t think she was “inevitable” in 2008 and I think she’s quite strong now, as far as support. It’s resilient. They’ll back her again, just as enthusiastically as they did in 2008.
I think it’s a lovely state, California. Point Reyes is one of the prettiest places I’ve ever seen. I was like “this is… paradise!“
@Kay: I know a few Republican women who switched parties to vote for her in the primary.
I don’t personally know any Democrats who were enormous fans, except the hierarchy from county chair to Gov. Rendell. Obama got by far the most petition signatures in our suburban township.
What about the Kentucky governor? Dem governor from a traditionally red state. Big supporter of the healthcare law. Don’t know more about him that that. Would he be a good candidate?
Sutter gets around. Here at the local nanobrewer with dad, last fall.
I’ve always liked Brian Schweitzer, but it’s hard to see how his vigorous support for fracking doesn’t become an issue with progressives.
@Anybodybuther2016: I’m still not clear on what you’re saying. You’ve expressed opinions about the potential candidates I mentioned, but didn’t say whether or not you’d prefer Christie or Cruz–or pick someone else on the Republican side like Rick Santorum or Rand Paul or Marco Rubio or Mike Huckabee–to be President instead of Hillary Clinton. President Obama may have you spoiled but he can’t run again. If Hillary was the Democratic nominee, would you prefer her to any of the currently mentioned potential candidates on the Republican side?
I think he’s a blue dog. I admired his going all-in on the health care law, though. That was brave. I liked that once he was in he was just all the way in. His Twitter feed was hilarious. I’m pretty sure his shameless gloating was directed at Rand Paul :)
I certainly hope so.
@Kay: Just googled him and he’s 69 now so in the “too old” category. Love how strongly he supported healthcare.
I went to the ’08 convention and I sat on the PA bus for a while with PA Democrats. By then they were either Obama or had been harangued into supporting the ticket. It’s just the nature of the thing. Had Clinton won they would have been harangued the other way. They were all talking about how Rendell was for Clinton, “fast Eddie”, like that. Not real complimentary. I don’t know how he was as governor but I really can’t stand him as a pundit. For one thing I think he should reveal who is paying him, if someone is paying him, ya know, as a lobbyist.
@Kay: Kay, different subject, but do you have a link or anything on the education reform bill that Jerry Brown vetoed and why it was a bad thing? It sounds like something I should try to be on top of.
In what respect Satby?
Heh. We had our newly elected wingnut Assemblyman as guest speaker at our Homeowners meeting in November. He repeatedly gave Brown kudos for a any number of things. He also admitted that Republicans are virtually powerless given the supermajority in both legislative bodies. Good to hear, I worked hard for this jerks opponent (who happens to be a good friend), but this district is just too red.
@Violet: I don’t have to because none of the above except maybe Christie has a chance. I still don’t understand why you people think she is the only democratic pol on the planet that can fight back against the repugs when a) she doesn’t fight against them she fights with them, if she was an effective fighter she would have something to show for it. b) we have two perfect examples of fighting with the repugs and winning in PBO and Nancy Pelosi (and she did it while keeping her dog on the porch ;)
Here’s the WaPo link to the letter he wrote. It’s from 2011 though, so I assume the bill’s been rewritten or abandoned. His objection was to another testing scheme. He’s just not convinced they’re measuring anything worthwhile.
It was good to see someone, somewhere, ask some real questions about this “reform agenda” other than crazy Tea Party types. I think it’s brave to question it at this point, for a politician. There’s a sort of elite consensus around this list of what amount to slogans that makes me extremely wary. Who would object to “accountability!” or “excellence!” or “choice!” ? I’m almost desperate for someone to say “okay, but WTF does that mean for existing public schools? Will any of this benefit them?”
@FlipYrWhig: I agree with this. At the same time, you’ve just outlined the strongest case against trusting her with the power of the presidency.
@Paul in KY:
I don’t recall the exact numbers, but my impression is that to pacify Iraq while rebuilding the state, we’d have to have sent a rather large multiple of the soldiers that we did, and occupy Iraq for years. There’s simply no way (politically) we’d have been willing to pay for that. So it was always bound to fail.
@Anybodybuther2016: Still not clear on where you stand. There will almost certainly be a Democratic nominee and a Republican nominee for President in 2016. There may be other nominees from other parties as well (Green, Libertarian, Tea Party, whatever).
The name you choose to post with here is Anybodybuther2016. Do you mean Hillary Clinton in the “her” part of your name, if you break it up into “Anybody but her 2016”?
If the answer to the above question is “yes”, would you prefer anyone else but her, even if the other option was a Republican? I’ve listed examples of Republicans who might be the nominee, but feel free to name another one! There will almost certainly be a Republican nominee for President. If the Democratic nominee for President is Hillary Clinton do you still think “anybody but her” is better?
I have to admit, I still don’t understand what the huge difference was supposed to be out here between “charter” schools and “magnet” schools, other than that the school districts still had control over the magnets. Charters didn’t really take off, so I guess I wasn’t the only one who was confused. Why would you send your kid to a brand-new STEM charter school when there were already multiple public magnet schools focusing on STEM?
(I don’t have kids, so it’s possible that charters took off here in California without me noticing.)
@Violet: you’re right, please allow me to clarify. Anydemocratthatisntmorallyambiguous2016. Good day. :)
@Kay: I lived in Philly, with my husband then in a wheelchair, when Rendell was mayor. Had he personally shown up at my door, I would have punched him out because he was constantly on TV, locally and nationally, saying he couldn’t balance his budget because of the ADA, specifically curb cuts, while I couldn’t push the wheelchair anywhere but around and around a boring block because the curbs were a foot high!
So I moved and Eddy ran for governor in a primary against Bobby Casey, who is a nice guy but way too antichoice (like his father) to be a governor, and I had to hold my nose and vote for Rendell.
Rendell jumps on bandwagons and armtwists Dems to do as he says. He was a big supporter of Sam Alito and of Arlen Spector, as well as of Hillary Clinton. Anyway, where I lived was mostly GOP but with an active, aggressive bunch of Democrats who won a lot of local elections. They have annual petition-signing parties with free pizza and beer, which beats going door to door to door!
In 2008, our county chair came to our party with her petition to be a Clinton delegate. I didn’t know the preference of more than a few other people, but everybody seemed to be sheepishly looking at everybody else for a while. We liked our chair and didn’t want to diss her, but most of us eventually sidled over and signed some Obama petitions.
So that’s how 2008 looked from where I am. (I intellectually favored Obama because of the war thing, and I emotionally favored him because I didn’t want to see any more Bill. Hillary’s OK.)
@Anybodybuther2016: So your issue is really with the primaries? And if Hillary Clinton is the Democratic nominee you’ll vote for her? And/or change your name?
The control was the main issue. A magnet school is one that’s supposed to focus on a specific area- STEM magnet, arts magnet, etc.- while a charter school is one that has permission to bypass most of the regular organizational rules. Magnets are an attempt to offer more interesting options within the existing educational system, while charters are a radical attempt to let schools work outside many of the constraints of the system. So a charter is very attractive to parents in generally good school districts who want (or whose kids want) to start concentrating in one area even before they get to college. Charters were originally created as an attempt to try radical experiments to improve failing schools, but have been largely taken over by faux reformers whose primary interest is in screwing teachers’ unions and/or sucking private profits out of the public education system.
Can we please leave Governor Brown alone where maybe hopefully he can run the state a dem would/should run it and see its consequences.
@Betty Cracker: I’ve thought for a long time that HRC has been pretty clear that she’s not going to run (but she’s not going to categorically rule it out too early – she’d be silly to deny all the attention). The Daily Beast had an article in March 2011 –
She has explicitly said what she wants to work on. She can do much more on that outside the Presidency than in.
I think the Democrats would be smart to make the 2016 theme “rebuilding the middle class”. Obama’s been beating that drum, and O’Malley has been talking about it. Whether he can win the nomination – I dunno. But he strikes me as a good candidate.
@The Pale Scot:
Send the injured vet a dog turd with the following note:
IF YOU WERE STUPID AND GULLIBLE ENOUGH TO FALL FOR THE PHONEY PATRIOTIC HORSESHIT VOMITED OUT BY ARMCHAIR CHICKENHAWKS (DEMOS AND REPUBS BOTH) WHO BELIEVE “Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy” THEN YOU DESERVE WHAT YOU GET.
It’s time to stop supporting the troops when the troops have had 12 years to realize that U.S. presidents are using them as disposable kleenex to make money for the American military-industrial complex in a bogus War on Terror that has nothing to do with terror and serves only to enrich military contractors and chickenhawk members of congress.
“Support the troops” means endless unwinnable war forever. Only when we stop supporting the troops will the wars end. Only when their parents and sisters and brothers and children start spitting on them and ridiculing them for their gullibility and jingoism will young Americans stop volunteering to become troops and fight those endless pointless unwinnable wars.
You ought to be a lot more conflicted about Hillary. She recently made a speech at
Source: “Why liberal Democrats are skeptical of Hillary Clinton, in one paragraph,” The Atlantic magazine, 12 December 2013.
Hillary Clinton’s daughter Chelsea is married to investment banker Marc Mezvinsky. Goldman Sachs is America’s biggest investment bank.
Can you connect the dots?
Let’s take a closer look at the Clinton family:
Source: “Chelsea Clinton And Husband Buy Home Fit For NYC Royalty,” 15 March 2013, Forbes magazine.
3 million dollar wedding. 10 million dollar NYC apartment. Investment banker husband. Coincidentally, Chelsea’s mommy gives a speech recently explaining how “beating up the finance industry isn’t going to improve the economy—it needs to stop.”
Can anyone connect the dots here?
If you thought Wall Street trainwrecked the American economy in a corrupt orgy of insider dealing and cronyism during the Bush maladministration, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Just wait will Chelsea’s mommy gets into the Oval Office.
@mclaren: I didn’t realize we had a member of Westboro Baptist Church here. Interesting.
And I didn’t realize that Senator Joseph McCarthy had risen from the grave and started to post on this forum — so I guess that makes us even.
dem barrel is this barren? hillary & a 75 year old?