What do you animals think of the Maddow crew’s latest theory?
Open Thread
by @mistermix.bsky.social| 221 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads
by @mistermix.bsky.social| 221 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads
What do you animals think of the Maddow crew’s latest theory?
Comments are closed.
Cermet
Why create a new theory when the current one works … any new evidence to support the new theory?
Betty Cracker
It makes more sense than the endorsement theory, especially the timing, etc.
kc
The vile Maddow is playing you all for rubes!
/Somerby
Regnad Kcin
who does that make “the Serbian”?
cleek
it still makes no sense.
retaliation requires that your targets are affected somehow. there’s nothing about this that specifically affects the targets in any way – not in the new theory, and not in the old theory.
as retaliation against anyone it makes no sense. or maybe it was intended to be retaliation but was so wildly misguided that it can’t be seen as retaliation after the fact.
kc
But seriously, the timing is interesting.
I believe the mayor did say yesterday that he’d heard rumors months ago that the shutdown had something to do with him. I wonder if that’s true, and if those rumors had any basis, or were just pure speculation.
Lee
I think it makes more sense than the current theory.
catclub
I think that a chemical spill in West by God Virginia should be covered by Cole and or his minions.
I also think that the House voting to kneecap the Superfund System is relevant.
I also would like a pony.
raven
I’m Mad. . .the Animals
Like Sonny Liston
Like Al Capone yea
I’m Mad!
catclub
@Cermet: “any new evidence to support the new theory?”
The better timing of the outrage and response supports the new theory.
JR
Since this blog has strong WV ties, has anyone else been following the water crisis Charleston? Coal-washing chemicals leaked into the Elk River just above the water treatment plant for WV American Water, and now 9 counties have do-not-use warnings for their water.
Officials are saying the water’s only safe to flush down toilets and put out fires.
http://www.charlestondailymail.com/News/Kanawha/201401090067
Peter
It’s interesting and seems reasonable. Ultimately, though, we won’t know for sure until someone flips.
PaulW
Some men just want to watch the traffic stall.
Theorize all we want, it doesn’t change the fact Christie and his cronies tied up bridge traffic for days to punish their enemies both real and imagined. They lied about it with a phony “traffic study” that NO ONE has presented as real. And now they’re pleading the Fifth to avoid self-incrimination.
Rob in CT
Strikes me as more plausible than the payback for a Dem mayor not endorsing him.
PaulW
@catclub:
Veronica Mars, zatch you?
JPL
@Regnad Kcin: That’s what I was thinking although, it might be that it was just a bonus to screw the serb.
It’s apparent from the emails, the plan was discussed earlier.
chopper
@Lee:
Except given the record. Either that or they were retaliating against the rep and merely took glee in the fact that the mayor was flipping out as well.
I dunno. Maddow was all over this story back when the rest of the media was ignoring it, so I give her some room here.
piratedan
@kc: the mayor’s initial speculation was “did I do something to piss someone off?” and down the rabbit hole we went. While on first blush the endorsement thing seemed petty, given how Christie wanted to stack the NJ Court to allow his budget to pass seems a damn site more plausible considering Christie’s known position on public education and his loathing of teacher’s unions. As such, the big hold up on his budget was not spending enough money on education so he had two options, getting the NJ Constitution amended to deep six the education spending mandate or stack the court because sure as shit he wasn’t going to raise taxes… I can see how the dots connect and considering his management style and the problem solving approach he’s used in the past, I think he was happy to let everyone believe it was the endorements which he could soft peddle away, this… not so much.
gogol's wife
A letter-writer to the Times today says it’s political business as usual, and compares it to Obama rewarding campaign donors with ambassadorships. Yeah, same thing exactly.
chopper
@JPL:
Also there’s plenty of redacted stuff. Who knows?
Cervantes
@cleek:
That’s the wondrous thing — the complete senselessness of it.
Maybe we’ll get an explanation of some sort, but for now it’s Dada, albeit of a right-wing variety.
Betty Cracker
@cleek: Wildly misguided? Check. Incredibly dickish? Affirmative. But it’s not completely without a kind of twisted logic: If you want to degrade the reputation of a rival public servant, make that person’s constituents know that he or she is powerless to protect them. That it adds to people’s free-floating hatred of government is gravy if you’re a Republican.
Corner Stone
I’m thinking I like the choices available:
Gov Christie – mean, petty, vindictive liar
or
Gov Christie – clueless buffoon who staffed his office with mean, petty, vindictive and stupid liars*
*thanks Cervantes!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
There are so many holes in both the main theories as to who the target was, but who knows what’s to come in all the documents and emails we haven’t seen yet. Wildstein was I gather a longtime player in NJ politics, I think a resident of Fort Lee, who knows if he had some pre-existing grudge against “the little Serbian”, or if Kelly or someone else in CC’s office had a particular grudge against Weinberg. The timing I think is the best argument for Maddow’s theory
Gin & Tonic
@raven: Man, every time I see Liston I think of what may be the greatest sports photo ever, of Ali standing over a supine Liston in Lewiston. How lucky was Neil Leifer to be on that side of the ring that night – he could just as easily been on the other side.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: There is a third choice: Gov Christie – mean, petty, vindictive liar who staffed his office with mean, petty, vindictive and stupid people
nancy graham
I hope the Morning Schmo crew scrubbed their mitts with Lava soap after the hand job they gave Christie this AM. Mika was first in line. Don’t usually watch the show because I can’t stand the frat boy atmosphere (many other reasons, as well), but I did watch one segment today.
Comrade Mary
Been busy, so can someone recap for me the evidence against this being a legitimate traffic study that they were gloating over in email because as a special added bonus, the people of Fort Lee were going to get some pain.
I can’t imagine exactly how a state senator would be punished by a bunch of J. Random Citizens from his city dealing with gridlock. Does he still live in the city, or elsewhere in the state?
And if this was meant as punishment for that state senator, did they have time to plan it? Or was this vengeance a long time in coming, with the plan set up to be ready for execution at Christie’s word?
wvng
It makes as much sense as anything I’ve heard.
Cervantes
@Corner Stone: And don’t forget, according to Christie, one or more of his staffers are liars.
Corner Stone
Supposed to see up to 1000 pages being released today.
Good times.
kc
@Corner Stone:
I’m stealing that, thanks.
raven
@Gin & Tonic: Them were the days.
shortstop
@cleek: Either or both (more likely both) work if you consider that the goal was to warn others. Just getting ready to start a new term, Gov. Bombastic Bully wanted to send a message to all NJ Dems, all NJ pols, really, that fucking with him results in things in your district/town going boom. Even that explanation wouldn’t work — would sound like the fever dreams of somebody who’s watched too many episodes of Boardwalk Empire and the Sopranos — if we didn’t have plenty of evidence that Christie loves to retaliate when he’s questioned or crossed. The guy is like something out of Central Casting.
JPL
The e-mails seem to suggest that the toll shutdown was for political payback. The timing seems to suggest something happened to give the okay to the plan. That’s all we know. Rachel is pretty good about connecting the dots.
Amir Khalid
Maybe Weinberg is a more plausible target than Sokolich of the threat implied by the action; Maddow certainly makes a good argument for her case. I expect the truth will come out in the US attorney’s investigation now under way. It will help to know the correct motive, should the US attorney decide to file charges over the malicious abuse of power by Christie and/or members of his senior staff.
The Dangerman
This “traffic study” wasn’t the first time these arsonists played with matches; there will be a drip, drip, drip for months (years?) on other known or suspected ratfucks. Christie is OK for now, but impeachment (or resignation) is in his future.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: I thought the first one kind of encompassed the second, but hey, no argument there’s some mix of mean, petty, vindictive, lying people going on in Gov Christies’ office!
Cervantes
@kc: Thing about rubes is, by definition they have no idea when they are being played.
shortstop
@Corner Stone: I have a boatload of work to do. The humanity!
Petorado
The NYT had an article a few weeks back about there’s a trail of vindictive behavior from Christie. He seems to make a point of petty slaps at his opponents, or those that won’t do his bidding.
schrodinger's cat
Causing traffic problems is vindictive and childish whatever theory you prefer.
schrodinger's cat
BTW although Christie is toast, your new overlords will still be floofy.
WereBear
@cleek: But as a total dick move (TDM) it is absolutely breath-taking!
And of course Christie is behind it. Not only is it his bullying style, how on earth would his aides think this would impress him… unless they TOLD him?
Corner Stone
@Comrade Mary: As far as I am aware, there is no actual traffic study. One doesn’t exist. That’s why the Port Authority couldn’t produce it.
That’s my current understanding.
cleek
@Betty Cracker:
when did that happen?
when and how did the people on the bridge learn that?
that’s what i mean about “retaliation requires that your targets are affected somehow.”
if i throw a dozen eggs at some passing cars for reasons they don’t know about, how does the drivers’ anger help my cause ?
jenn
@JR: And how ironic that the fuckers who spilled the chemicals in the first place are named “Freedom Industries.” I get *so* pissed off over anything that impacts drinking water. I hope that “Freedom Industries” pays out the nose.
Steve M.
I’ll say this: Maddow is trying to do the kind of story 60 Minutes used to pursue before it became a series of audition tapes for jobs at Fox News.
JPL
@chopper: The documents will be handed over to state and federal authorities. Except for email addresses, I doubt there will be that many redactions.
Corner Stone
@shortstop: You are *not* the victim here, Gov Shortstop!
raven
@Gin & Tonic: I forgot Jersey Joe was the ref!
Bubblegum Tate
Why won’t the media investigate BENGHAZI!!!!!! as thoroughly as this????
[/wingnut]
shortstop
@Corner Stone: My primary emotion right now is sadness.
jenn
If it wasn’t about Sokolich then I don’t understand why the gleeful insults were all directed towards “the Serb.”
geg6
@Regnad Kcin:
Yeah, that’s where it all falls apart for me.
peggy
Question for Cole about his home state- does he know people stuck without water?
100,000 people in WV have been told to not bathe, wash clothes, cook or drink their water.
Corner Stone
This has been a really bad week for Cole. His mancrush gets outed, his cat releases toxic gas in his home, and now The Hand of The Free Market has dumped actual chemicals in his state’s water supply.
He’s really been on an epic run lately.
WaterGirl
@cleek: You fuck with us and we will fuck with your city. How does that not make sense as a way to explain this action?
shortstop
@jenn: Maybe they all weren’t. Would we really be surprised to see the redacted material yield up some free-floating “bitch” and “cunt” references to Weinberg?
LeeM
Being an engineer in the real world, I still don’t understand how you get any reliable data out of a traffic study by screwing up the traffic flow. Most places put counters across the road and analyse the flow over time. Seems like a BS coverup by really stupid pols who didn’t think to cover their tracks with a plausible story.
RSR
I absolutely think the Maddow theory makes more sense than the mayoral non-endorsement one. But, of course, no one was going to offer to correct anyone barking up the wrong tree.
As for laughing at the little Serbian once the traffic issue was occurring it’s just spite, the poor mayor begging Trenton for help, not even knowing what is really going on.
They’re just bastards, the lot of them.
Roger Moore
@Comrade Mary:
It’s mostly negative evidence. It wasn’t performed the way an actual traffic study would be performed, the people who would be in charge of a real traffic study have said it wasn’t one, and the people who could save their political bacon by proving it was a traffic study haven’t produced any documentary evidence that it was one. So not a smoking gun, but it’s hard to believe that the whole thing would have gotten this far if there had been a legitimate study complete with all the expected documentation.
geg6
@Comrade Mary:
First, I think the fact that no one can produce any evidence of any such study is quite striking. Months have gone by and no one can point to any study.
Second, the bridge is a joint operation with NYS. New York knew absolutely nothing about any such study nor were they informed of the ramp closings ahead of time.
Third, no one informed emergency services or Homeland Security of the ramp closings, two organizations are almost always informed of such closings, for obvious reasons.
currants
@catclub: Echoes of Buffalo Creek.
Betty Cracker
@cleek: If I’m sitting in traffic for 4 hours for no apparent reason, I’m definitely going to be cursing the mofos who caused the giant clusterfuck and on the horn to complain to the local authorities about it. And that’s exactly what the mayor of Ft. Lee was reacting to — he begged the state for some relief because HE was getting screamed at, and CC’s minions were snickering all the while.
Corner Stone
It’s kind of like asking why a cat will race around the house, stop short and jump straight into the air when there is nothing there. Or why a dog lays around licking his junk all day.
There’s no rhyme or reason to this kind of arrogant assholery. His whole office is infused with it. It’s just what they do.
And Congressman Pasquale(?) from NJ said he wrote a letter to the asst executive at the Port Authority on Sept 13th asking what the hell was going on? and the guy never answered.
Didn’t answer him at all? That should tell what kind of culture of fear Christie had instilled around him.
kc
@kc:
Snark aside: I do think Somerby, even though he’s been a jerk about Maddow and obviously has some personal animus towards her, has a point in that I myself wonder if it’s appropriate for Maddow to float a theory like that without more support. Because it’s an intriguing theory and I enjoy speculating about it (it would be irresponsible not to!), but as far as I know unsupported by any evidence. If she’s proven to be correct, good for her, but I think it would be better . . . journalistically . . . if she and her staff did more digging and came up with some more support before broadcasting it.
raven
@Corner Stone: If you could lick you junk like UGA you’d never be heard from again. Woof.
“One of my favorite stories is Grizzard talking about Bubba and Earl at a University of Georgia football game. Georgia is facing Alabama for the Southeastern Conference championship and a trip to the Sugar Bowl. The game is on national TV and 80,000 people are in the stands. That’s when Bubba notices Georgia’s mascot, an English Bulldog, licking himself. Bubba turns to Earl and says, “I wish I could do that.” Earl looks at Bubba and says, “That dog would bite you!”
Anton Sirius
@peggy:
Question for all the people in this thread demanding something from Cole about this: is it not an official news story unless it’s accompanied by photos of Steve and Lily?
Gin & Tonic
@Comrade Mary: so can someone recap for me the evidence against this being a legitimate traffic study
An actual traffic study, that would have shut toll lanes for days, would take a very long time to get approved, and would generate reams of paper. There is precisely zero supporting paperwork, and the guy in charge of PANYNJ specifically said there was no such study.
Corner Stone
@LeeM: Yeah, a point the uber-hack Gov Rendell made this morning. You want a traffic study? You have the toll booths right there. Count them.
RSR
It kind of reminds me of the Rumsfeld note: “Go massive,” the notes quote him as saying. “Sweep it all up. Things related and not.”
two birds, one toll booth.
shortstop
@Corner Stone: Pascrell.
I was also interested to hear last night from Assemblywoman Valerie Huttle, who cosponsored a bipartisan, two-state Port Authority Transparency and Accountability Act. This was passed by the NJ legislature and promptly vetoed by Christie.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, I agree. Ongoing big-deal partisan feud over judicial appointments makes a lot more sense than one lost mayoral endorsement (out of tens or hundreds).
kc
@cleek:
I agree with you, it makes no political sense that I can see. The only way it makes sense is as a senseless act of spite, carried out by political operatives with the mentality of frat boys and sorority mean girls.
WaterGirl
@geg6: Yeah, but who cares about Homeland Security on september 11, right?
Cervantes
@kc: Not fair quoting me without my permission.
Just Some Fuckhead
This is why bridges should be left to the private sector.
WaterGirl
@raven: It’s the old joke: why do dogs and cats lick themselves? Because they can.
RSR
BTW, I have heard from some NJ residents that effing with traffic is a time-honored ratf*ck in the state.
Dropping the traffic bomb seems like something that’s in the arsenal of many politcos from small towns to multi-state agencies.
Villago Delenda Est
@gogol’s wife:
You mean, Obama appointed political donors to ambassador positions like George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush, Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixion, LBJ, JFK, Dwight Eisenhower, Harry Truman, FDR, Herbert Hoover, Calvin Coolidge, Warren Harding, Woodrow Wilson…need I go on?
Captain C
I think both could be valid at the same time–kill two birds (or political enemies, as it were) with one stone, pour encourager les autres to quietly give him whatever he wants. I also think if he’s at all weakened by this, Christie will have a hell of a time getting anything done, especially if Democrats feel emboldened to investigate his other crimes.
Regardless, I think Governor Cartman’s presidential dream is done. The “Christie killed a 91-year old grandmother for political revenge on someone else” and “Christie endangered the life of a missing 4-year old for petty BS” ads write themselves.
kc
@Gin & Tonic:
You’d also think people living in the affected area would be notified via newspaper and local news broadcasts in advance of potential traffic tie-ups. That’s how they do it here in the backwards state of SC, anyway.
kc
@Just Some Fuckhead:
I’ll . . . paraphrase. :)
mainmata
Of course, one of the ironies of the Big Chicken Affair is that one of the first actions the new Governor took was to withdraw funding for a new tunnel into New York that would probably have relieved some of the traffic congestion on the Geo. Washington Bridge. What a rat f*cker.
Hal
Watching that clip last night reminded me of reading the chapter in The Pelican Brief when Darby Shaw connects the dots of the main conspiracy. I’m finding all of this fascinating.
I also enjoyed a conservative friends post last night about the media paying more attention to Christie aides putting up traffic cones than they have to, you guessed it, Benghazi!!!
Tractarian
@kc:
There’s plenty of support. To recap: on 8/12, CC throws a tantrum and withdraws his own Supreme Court nominee to protect her from the “animals”, i.e. Senate Democrats. On 8/13, CC’s top aide sends an email saying “it’s time for traffic problems” in the Senate Democratic leader’s district.
Those two facts alone support the theory. It is circumstantial support, but it is support nonetheless. It would be admissible in a court of law. It’s certainly acceptable for cable news.
Gin & Tonic
@LeeM: Not that I’m saying this is what actually happened, but there is actually an access from a relatively small local street in Fort Lee into the eastbound toll plaza, that bypasses the often-jammed I-95 access. It gets 2-3 of the 10-12 toll lanes. It is arguable that the town’s local traffic shouldn’t get that proportion, or that the proportions should be adjustable based on demand. I suppose you could find other means of counting other than shutting that access, but that is one way of answering the question.
Cervantes
@Tractarian: There’s also “circumstantial support” for the notion that roosters cause sunrises.
Villago Delenda Est
@jenn:
It’s possible that “the Serb” was just collateral damage icing on the cake of getting back at a state representative who was giving the Outlaw Jersey Whale a serious political headache, and “the Serb” calling up and begging Trenton for help just triggered a great deal of sniggering and high fiving on the part of the minions of the Outlaw Jersey Whale.
WereBear
I don’t understand. There were claims of a traffic study without proof there was a traffic study. That’s support to me.
Villago Delenda Est
@WereBear:
This.
Somerby is making an ass of himself. Again.
shortstop
@Gin & Tonic: The Port Authority folks who have weighed in on this have said that anything they need to study could be done by computer modeling. They don’t see any scenario in which shutting lanes is necessary.
Corner Stone
@Steeplejack:
But then you hear about a minor level state pol who said something iffy and the gov himself called the guy up.
I think we’re spinning wheels trying to apply logic to this.
Cervantes
@Gin & Tonic:
Arguable, maybe. Personally I think some locals end up having to use the bridge more than just twice a day so giving them a break is not such a bad thing.
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est:
Exactly. Look how much glee they got from harming kids on school buses.
shortstop
@Corner Stone: It’s just fun. “How many possible assholery scenarios can we apply to the known asshole?”
Betty Cracker
@kc: It might be inappropriate if Maddow were a broadcast anchor reading the straight news, but it’s a news, analysis and opinion program, a point that seems to perpetually elude crankypants Bob.
I don’t expect 100% objectivity when I read Krugman, but I do expect him to provide an accurate context for the discussion and to use facts to back up his opinions. Same with Maddow.
She provided the evidence behind her theory and didn’t present it as fact, though I’m sure Punxsutawney Bob (for whom every day is 11/7/2001, forever) will rise up from his hole and cast a shadow over this latest nothingburger in due course.
Citizen_X
@chopper:
Plus, remember that they were saying about the kids stuck on buses, “Screw ’em. They’re kids of Buono voters.” So it becomes collective punishment against what I’m guessing is a heavily Democratic area.
Tractarian
@Cervantes:
Also a notion that I’m fairly certain has been aired on cable news at some point.
Corner Stone
@shortstop: Oh, I’m having a great time with it! I love irresponsibly speculating irresponsibly!
But it seems like we have to have a box to stuff it into, when I don’t think there is one.
Let the speculation be free, people! If you love it, set it free!
Comrade Mary
@geg6: Many great answers, thanks for this and all the rest of y’all who chimed in.
Just Some Fuckhead
Shouldn’t someone in a journalistic role be trying to interview Bridget Anne Kelly?
Villago Delenda Est
@shortstop:
The mind reels with all the possibilities.
When the truth does come out of this mess, it might be something that is so out there as a theory that no one ever imagined it was anything but idle fantasy.
Gin & Tonic
@Cervantes: Not sure why Ft. Lee should get a break while, say Teaneck doesn’t. And at $13 a pop, I’d think people are pretty careful about how many times they cross.
Villago Delenda Est
@Tractarian:
I’m sure Leslie Blitzer, who is known to gainsay his own expert guests on their expertise (Wolf, it’s a simple question of weight ratios!) has already covered that ground.
Corner Stone
@Just Some Fuckhead: She’s Keyser Soze now.
She convinced us all she existed when she really was just Kevin Spacey the whole time.
Cervantes
@Tractarian: Sure, and if you’re satisfied with that level of argument, then there’s no problem.
shortstop
@Villago Delenda Est: Don’t we have to consider the possibility that the whole truth may never come out? Oooh. Bummer. Now I’m sad again. Sad that another state’s governor has lied to me. I’m loyal to other states’ governors and I demand their loyalty in return. Get back under that Greyhound, Bridget.
Villago Delenda Est
@Just Some Fuckhead:
If I were Bridget Ann Kelly, right now I’d be hunkered down in the safe room of the mcmansion with a tub of jamoca almond fudge waiting for the eye of the hurricane to move on.
scav
@Betty Cracker: But, on a bridge under the control of a known different authority, I’d figure the immediate target of ranting is the Port Authority, not the local guy with nominal control of the land under the on-ramps, either as Mayor or more numinous higher layers of political control, if in fact many of the people using said clogged onramps would even be aware of who these latter are. The local clogged streets guys have a better idea of who the local pols are, but they’ve also got the obvious big target of who controls the pinch point. And they had suspicions of payback, but vague ones at best. So, for the benefit of vague local inklings (including the mayor), one is going to inconvenience large number of people with no ties whatsoever to the target (as they’re coming from different areas), all this right before an election? They had a lead in the polls, but the downside of vague dickish powerplays before an election is backlash with consequences, especially in an election where you’re trying to cement your bipartisan cred and popularity to a larger national stage. Save the unfocused dickish power plays to less potentially nationally visible times would be my suggestion. There’s something really off and almost inept about this, which is making it hard to play out with the brain on. Any seemingly logical construct has raging big holes and inconsistencies in it. More info might help.
shortstop
What about the golf pro Kelly is separated from? Perhaps we can mine his marital bitterness for entertainment value. (Yes, I’ve become what I despise.)
Bob In Portland
Dead Man Waddling.
kc
@WereBear:
Yes, but not for the specific theory that Weinberg was the target.
I dunno, I’m just playing devil’s advocate here. I personally think all those assholes are guilty as sin . . .
beltane
@Corner Stone: I don’t think we can apply the reasonable person standard to a power-drunk Republican. The whole thing reminds me of medieval times when popes would punish recalcitrant monarchs by putting entire kingdoms under interdict, meaning that no burials, marriages, etc. could take place until the king complied with the pope’s demands.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
The NJ reporter who wrote a book on Christie (and who needs a media coach if he’s gonna play this part) was just on MSNBC, and he brought up one of my favorite Christie stories– he was involved in a hit-and-run as US Atty and gave the cops the “DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?” treatment. All those stories that seemed like endearing blustery charming rogue in the post-Sandy glow of The Morning Joe Politico Show will now look like entitlement, bullying and corruption.
ranchandsyrup
Sometimes we do things just because we think we believe we can based on past history. A common fallacy.
kc
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Yes, although someone in a lawyer role should be telling her to keep her mouth shut . . .
shortstop
@scav: The email about the “little Serbian” referred to his having a terrible November. I assumed he’d run for reelection this fall and that Wildstein was thus under the impression that the bridge snarl would hurt his electoral chances. But Sokolich was reelected in 2011. What does “November” mean?
Corner Stone
@scav:
And, obviously, the Port Authority guys have to know this. They *have* to know that everyone is going to be pointing a huge blinking yellow arrow right at the PA.
So why the hell would they agree to do this? Wildstein had the power to do this all by himself? Nobody above him at the PA said, “Excuse me, but WTF?”
Suffern ACE
@Gin & Tonic: Actually it’s possible to use that route from Teaneck. And you can use Route 4 rather easily as well. Folks coming from Ft. Lee south, palisades park, Edgewater and points down by the river below the palisades would have the most trouble. There aren’t a lot of options for getting out of Edgewater to some other route.
Corner Stone
So I guess what I’m taking away from all this is when Gov Christie promised to govern in “the spirit of Sandy” we all thought he meant bipartisan cooperation and compassion after the Hurricane Sandy event.
When he really meant Sandy Two-Times the local debt collector and leg breaker for the mafia.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@ranchandsyrup: I think that’s what we’re looking at, Christie and his team bought in to their own press, they were/are political superstars. Untouchables on board the Unstoppable Inevitable Chris Christie Presidential Express
slippytoad
@gogol’s wife:
There is a reason I have to confine my internet discussion to places like BJ.
Because, if I have to “discuss” this bullshit phony equivalence with a dumb-fuck, in-your-face conservo-tard cultist, the first response I have to this kind of bogus equivalence is almost uncontrollably hostile. I just cannot play along, like a professional ass-licking journalist, with the utterly fraudulent premise that giving someone an ambassadorship is the same as closing traffic to horse-fuck voters for the crime of failing to support someone.
I mean, is it wrong that I’m so brutally dismissive of childish right-wing excuses these days? To the point that when I start hearing one, I immediately assign the speaker a mental age of 5?
feebog
@Villago Delenda Est:
That’s how I read it. The Mayor was the one complaining and that particular email thread is regarding his phone calls and “radio silence”. We may know more once the additional emails are released. Going to be glued to TRMS tonight, that’s for certain.
Cervantes
@Gin & Tonic: Well, you have a point, of course, but since we’re just making all this up out of whole cloth, anyway … it could just be that there was no feasible way to accommodate Teaneckers (or Whoosits) simply as a matter of physical or economic geography. As for the $13, it is a lot of money for a bridge toll but for some purposes it may not be significant.
Anyhow, it’s a beautiful bridge. When our kids were little we used to chant “George Washington” repeatedly while crossing, just to give them some idea of how wide the Hudson is at that point. You may have done this, too, I suppose.
Lex
@Comrade Mary: Circumstantial but simple: 1) They don’t block lanes for FOUR DAYS to do traffic studies, in NY/NJ or anywhere else. 2) No record of any traffic study at that time in that area has surfaced thus far in Port Authority documents — that I know of. Not completely certain on No. 2 (and who knows what else might come out), but No. 1 is a mortal lock.
beltane
I’ve read that the good folks over at Redstate are blaming Hillary Clinton for this, saying it’s a setup to kneecap Christie’s presidential campaign. Hearing these tales of the Clintons’ magical powers makes me feel young again.
kc
Oh my God, y’all: Georgia GOPer who attacked free lunches for school kids expensed $4,200.00 worth of meals.
(hey, technically it’s an open thread)
Villago Delenda Est
@kc:
Surprise, surprise, surprise! Georgia Rethuglican is a hypocritical asshole! That’s a rare event!
kc
@beltane:
If Hill runs for President we’ll get to hear, once again, about the 140 people that she and Bill personally had assassinated in their rise to power.
Villago Delenda Est
@kc:
The Clenis rules the universe.
g
@Comrade Mary: Been busy, so can someone recap for me the evidence against this being a legitimate traffic study
The Port Authority has already stated that there was no study.
Cluttered Mind
@Citizen_X: Actually from what I heard that district went for Christie over Buono. Remind me again why we have to choose BETWEEN Stupid or Evil? It sure looks like both to me.
ranchandsyrup
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Part of that belief could be that their media defenders would tamp this down. Morning Joe to the rescue! Barro shot down the Maddow theory as well.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@kc: Reince Priebus actually brought up Whitewater the other day. I wonder, if Wolf Blitzer had challenged him to explain that, he would’ve been pantsed like when Tweety asked Mathew Continetti what “Munich” meant.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
OK, this is utter fantasy that makes “Lord of the Rings” and “Star Wars” look like boring documentaries.
maya
And to think, Christie thought that the show Jersey Shore and Nicole Polizzi,(Snooki) presented a bad image for his state. This one is so much better, Guv.
He’s just a lonely little petunia in an onion patch.
feebog
@shortstop:
I think it is just a general reference to the November election. Sokolich has made it clear in his interviews that he was supporting the Democratic Candidate.
gogol's wife
@slippytoad:
And why would the Times publish such a ridiculous letter? That’s a mystery to me. Fair and balanced, I guess.
danielx
@beltane:
Fixed. I mean, Holy Joe Lieberman and Grandpa McCain are what pass for reasonable Republicans these days, and they’re assholes.
kc
@Villago Delenda Est:
It was in that era that I first realized that many Republicans are nucking futz. I don’t think blogs even existed, but there were the bizarre emails . . . a Republican friend used to forward me all these emails with crazy allegations about the Clintons having people killed (a long list of people, with names and dates) and I actually thought they were a joke at first. Eventally I came to the horrible realization that these people really believe this shit.
srv
Clearly, the Democrats started this by playing games usurping the Governor’s rightful powers.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Villago Delenda Est: well, bien sur, mon sieur. It’s a miracle that Tweety found a nut that time. I’m guessing one of the few things Reince Preibus is smart enough to do, along with zipping up after peeing, half the time, is picking his televised interlocutors.
kc
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
No one I knew ever could explain Whitewater. They just knew it was BAD.
At least with BENGHAZI!! they can recite a minimal script (i.e., Obama and Hillary purposely let those Americans die!)
Hill Dweller
@nancy graham:
The twitter machine told me Squint Scarborough was blaming President Obama for everything in an attempt to absolve Christie. Benghazi, IRS, etc. were all brought up. He apparently claimed PO personally took money away from the state department budget, and it resulted in the Benghazi deaths.
tybee
@kc:
bwahahahaha.
another one bites the dust. i despise that son of a bitch and now others get the opportunity to despise him as well.
Mike in NC
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Approaching 2016, we must steel ourselves for the upcoming “Greatest Hits of the 90s” from Republicans: Whitewater, TrooperGate, Vince Foster, Monica Lewinsky, etc. ad nauseum to be exhumed and revisited over and over again 24/7.
Meanwhile, the USA Today’s front page headline is — Christie: “I Am Not A Bully”. By Sunday, Mark Halperin will have figured out 15 reasons why this is excellent news for Chris.
chopper
@peggy:
yeah, that’s gonna be a real cross to bear for those guys.
brantl
@Regnad Kcin: The Serbian is collateral damage.
beltane
@kc: It’s remarkable how quickly they can pivot from believing that Hillary wasn’t so bad compared to the Kenyan usurper to “OMG, that b*tch can steal our manhood with one glance of her evil, feminazi eyes.”
Corner Stone
St Senator Weinberg is ripping Gov Christie to absolute shreds on MSNBC.
Just gashing him.
RSR
Teaneck is 3 – 5 miles west of the bridge; traffic from there can use highway or various local roads. (We often use 46 to Palisades Pkwy to get out of bridge traffic when heading for Tappan Zee.) From north of the bridge the Palisades connects to the bridge.
Three lanes/tolls of local access from Fort Lee and it’s neighbors to the immediate south seems reasonable, especially when you want to have separate lanes for cash vs EZPass.
That’s one thing I noticed that was exceptionally dickish in the whole shutdown: one combo EZPass and cash toll kills virtually any time efficiency benefit of EZPass.
Cervantes
@Citizen_X:
No, the kids on the public-school buses are from pro-Buono families, if you know what I mean. The area itself usually votes Republican.
(I’m not saying any of it makes sense.)
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mike in NC: Matthew Dowd, somewhat regretful Bushite and designated ABC “moderate centrist Republican” was apparently pimping this angle this a.m.
beltane
@Mike in NC: Does this mean there will be a reunion of the Seinfeld cast? A Michael Jordan comeback? Will we all start using dial-up again?
brantl
@Omnes Omnibus: Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!
Villago Delenda Est
@kc:
There was USENET then, and the freak flags were flying on a 24/7 basis. There were no blogs, but there were web pages with tons of conspiracy theories and long lists of Clinton hit victims, not to mention the entire Clinton cocaine smuggling operation out of the Mena airport, and the execution of some kids who saw too much, and all the other fevered dreams of people who were both grfiting the gullible (Jerry Falwell video tapes, anyone?) and true believers in their own right, who knew they had “THE TRUTH” about the despicable, depraved Clintons.
Meanwhile, there’s contemporary documentary proof that the father of Clinton’s predecessor and grandfather of Clinton’s successor was a Nazi collaborator, and these people don’t see that as a bug, but as a feature!
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
And another thing. If Christie didn’t know about the “traffic study”, why did he call Cuomo and beg him to end the investigation in December?
Corrupt politicians should remember that it is very likely these days everything they say is recorded. The Internet doesn’t forget.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bobby Thomson
@cleek: This. It’s the most inept attempt at intimidation I’ve ever seen.
But if we run it through cleek’s law instead, I suppose it makes perfect sense.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@beltane: What. Is the deal. With this BRIDGE?
and now it’s Chunkie* Todd’s turn to find a nut: The more you know about this business, the worse Chris Christie looked yesterday.
*accidental typo I decided to leave out of pettiness
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: If I were her, I would be hunkered down with a brigade of lawyers working out how to get the best possible deal before someone else rolls over.
Corner Stone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
What position do you hold in Gov Christie’s office?
Answer the question, Bridget!
Bobby Thomson
@Comrade Mary:
The best evidence is that no one’s produced a study, or any paper trail supporting a study. Also, too, local officials (and New York) were kept completely out of the loop, which would be . . . odd.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, you’re right. It’s probably worth sharing the jamoca almond fudge to get the legal help.
Rick Taylor
More important than the theory itself was that in discussing it, it becomes evident we still don’t know what this was all about. Perhaps Christie should find out for us? It was people in his office who did this after all, and he is a former prosecutor.
Bobby Thomson
@shortstop:
But how does that work without someone trying to claim credit in some way, either with a threat beforehand, or some vague comment after the fact that preserves deniability?
I think it was just dicks being dicks because they could be. And because they’re dicks.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: Lawrence O’Donnell can annoy the hell out of me, but he brought an interesting political lawyer’s take to the questions that weren’t asked yesterday, number one: Governor, have you consulted a personal attorney?
Bobby Thomson
@cleek: Exactly. This is the political equivalent of leaving burning poo on the front door of the guy who cut you off in traffic last week. Might be satisfying to some, but it doesn’t “send a message.”
raven
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m sure you know that he is not a lawyer.
Villago Delenda Est
@Rick Taylor:
“I’ve conducted a painstaking investigation of this entire matter, and I’ve determined that my underlings were totally out of control and had no effective supervision.
Did I mention I’m a hands-on manager, by the way?”
Tractarian
@Cervantes:
I’m not saying I’m convinced, I’m saying it’s appropriate speculation for cable news. (Plus, unlike your roosters-cause-sunrise theory, this one hasn’t been conclusively disproven by hard scientific evidence.)
chopper
@Bobby Thomson:
either way, christie is pretty boned. not necessarily in terms of 2016 (tho he probably is), but his entire ability to govern a state with a democratic majority in trenton comes down to a combination of patronage and bullying. this sort of stuff is supposed to happen behind the curtain. now the microscope is focused on his administration, which means those things are no longer possible.
as governor, he’s just lost his leverage over the dems in trenton. any threats he coughs up have no stick behind them any more, so to speak, because anything that happens anywhere in the state is going to cause rumors of christie ratfucking. and there are a whole bunch of democratic politicians in NJ who, having been previously cajoled and threatened into going along with christie, who are going to have the knives out.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@raven: O’Donnell? I thought he was, or used to be.
He followed up his Washington insiders take with a Hollywood insiders take, which is when I turned him off.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: If he hasn’t retained personal counsel, he is a fool.
brantl
@cleek: How many kids do that, regardless of whether they get to see the car’s occupants rage? Lots.
FastEddie
The timing makes it pretty believable. Plus, They could screw with both the Senate Dem leader AND the non-endorsing mayor. It doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive.
Suffern ACE
@chopper: This morning my commute on Route 17 was awful due to a truck fire that closed 2 lanes of traffic all morning. I blame Christie and his bullying tactics.
I’m not certain that this “all bad things on the roads are Chris Christie’s doings” is not exactly the poisitioning I’d want.
danielx
@Villago Delenda Est:
Not to mention El Rushbo on television, spewing complete horseshit right and left. There were actually Rush Limbaugh hours at some bars back then.
chopper
@Suffern ACE:
i’m not talking about truck fires here. but things like budget cuts and the like become less effective sticks to wave at someone behind closed doors when everyone knows you’re doing it.
Irishguy
Let us think back to Watergate.
What possible sense does it make to burglarize the offices of the Democratic National Committee and illegally wiretap their phones? Do the risk/benefit calculus. Does it make any sense at all? Of course not, not then and not now when we finally know (pretty much) the whole truth.
It was a mind-blowing stupid thing to do for no good reason. Maybe, just maybe, it makes a little more sense if the election was shaping up to be close, but at the time of the burglary, Nixon was heading to an historic blow-out. But they did it anyway.
And you know what? Nixon survived for two more years on the “he couldn’t possibly be this stupid” excuse. Only, it turns out, yes he could.
As I watched the “Maddow crew” and especially Kornacki, they were brainstorming, trying to examine “pattern and practice” to find any way this made sense. And the only conclusion they reached was, “Boy, this was a stupid decision.”
brantl
@srv: Nope, Christie bumped a very decent judge off of the Supreme Court of NJ, something that had never been done before, listen to the whole Maddow piece. There would not have been an opening had Christie not been a partisan hack.
Cervantes
@Bobby Thomson:
Here’s Rachel Maddow:
That’s from her December 13 show. I have no idea what “study” or “documentation” she was referring to, nor can I tell you if she has mentioned it since.
In light of the new theory she unveiled yesterday, it’s interesting to look back at her old theory (as explicated on December 13, say).
bupalos
For those not wanting to sit through Maddow’s plodding explication, the gist is that there is a much larger and more contentious issue in NJ than the petty endorsement thing, a big fight over the state supreme court which Christie needs to pack in order to do what he wants to do to education. He (without precedent) refused to renominate an accomplished sitting liberal judge, the Dems went apeshit and started torpedoing all his nominations to the point that he then refused to renominate one of his own sitting crony judges when she came up because he didn’t want her tarred and feathered by dems who he called “animals.” So a huge Dem-Rep fighty-fight. The day after he announced this the “bridge study” went forward, aimed at the district of the Dem senate leader, who would be ringmaster on that side of this particular fight.
Much more plausible than the endorsement thing. Much higher stakes and higher antagonism in the fight over the court. And more than just retribution, you could plausibly think Christie could just be sending the message “look where I’m willing and able to go here,” a kind of severed horses head in all the dems beds.
Mike in NC
This whole thing could blow over and position Chris Christie well ahead of the rest of the pack of loons with eyes on the White House if he were to simply come out and tearfully announce that he was accepting Jesus as his personal savior. Send a helicopter down to pick up Billy and Franklin Graham for good measure. Americans love that stuff.
Irishguy
@Cervantes: “(D)ocumentation that they did do something that looked like a study,” is NOT a study, which still to this day cannot be produced because it does not exist.
I have no idea what Maddow saw before her broadcast on Dec. 13, but it does seem she was careful in choosing her words then, leaving open the possibility, however remote, that the “study” may exist.
But I think it is fairly safe to say now, one month later with no study produced, and in light of the “Time to cause traffic problems” e-mail, that such a study is indeed non-existent.
lethargytartare
@Cervantes:
thanks for your input, Bob.
Cervantes
@Irishguy: Your language suggests that what may be “fairly safe to say now” may not have been prudent to say earlier.
Luckily, the mayor of Fort Lee appears to be taking everything in stride. Nice enough guy, he seems to have his head screwed on right.
taylormattd
@cleek: Terrible traffic problems are blamed on politicians.
And the evening before (just hours before, really) the aid sent out her email saying “Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee”, Christie literally said the Senate Democrats “will regret this”.
Irishguy
@Mike in NC: Who knows? Mitt Romney was able to morph himself from the Health Care Champion of Massachusetts to crazier than Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum and Rick Perry rolled together.
So maybe Christie can do the same, although he faces stiff competition in the looneybin department from Paul, Cruz and Rubio.
Seems to me that he’s got a couple of strikes against him.
1. He stood on the beach and praised Obama on national TV a week before the presidential election.
2. He stood on the beach and praised Obama on national TV a week before the presidential election.
Central NJ Resident
Just to reiterate what a few have already pointed out. These entrance lanes to the bridge weren’t just for the residents of Ft Lee, they just happened to connect Ft Lee local roads to the bridge. The fact is that those lanes are used by residents of the entire area, basically everyone who doesn’t live west of the bridge and near an access ramp to Route 80. If you live almost anywhere else in Bergen County, you are probably using secondary roads that happen to pass through Ft Lee in order to access the bridge. So shutting those lanes screws over the entire region for commuting purposes in addition to tying up Ft Lee with bumper to bumper gridlock with all the commuters driving in from the surrounding towns who now have nowhere to go.
Irishguy
@Cervantes: Yeah. The guy who called what happened to his city “the worst example of petty political vendetta” and said the guy who did it “deserves an ass kicking” is taking it all in stride.
He also said he fears very much what will happen to his town if this thing blows over and this story is off the front pages.
Cervantes
@Irishguy: I meant that (regardless of the words he’s using) he seems to be a level-headed sort. You think otherwise? OK.
Central NJ Resident
On a different note, I think Maddow is dead on with her theory. The magnitude of the fight that Christie was engaging in over the SC nominations along with his general bully like demeanor makes political retribution seem like the expected response from his camp. It’s no longer a “can’t believe they would do something so petty over something so trivial” issue, but a “can’t believe that they didn’t do something even bigger and more publicly” response now.
Add to that the timing of the emails and it makes way too much sense. Now that we may have a better idea of the “WHY”, it would help investigators start looking for the “WHO”. I’m sure there is a lot of really good info just waiting to be discovered under those blacked out emails. I wonder how many times the NJ Senate leader who represents Bergen County’s name shows up, and what slurs are used to describe her.
Now one other MAJOR thing needs to be addressed in the timing of this. The email went out on Aug 13th, but the lane closures didn’t go into effect until Sept 9th. There was some back and forth in the emails during that almost 4 week gap. Perhaps this thing wasn’t really planned out ahead of time but instead they just had the vague notion of using the PA and DOT as a tool to create problems in their back pocket. Then on the night of Aug 12th, in the heat of the moment they finally decide to unleash the hounds. It then took 4 weeks for the henchmen to come up with a plan on just how to inflict maximal punishment with some minimal plausible deniability.
Time to start digging into those 4 weeks….
SiubhanDuinne
@Comrade Mary:
To me, based on the emails we’ve seen so far, this has a strong “sleeper agent” feel to it. Lie low until the signal comes, then spring into action.
SiubhanDuinne
@peggy:
How will John mop his bathroom?
::the horror::
SiubhanDuinne
I can’t believe this hasn’t been answered elsewhere, but since I’m apparently unable to find an answer, i’ll just put it out:
Who, specifically (name or functional title), made the original claim or statement that the four-day tie-up was due to a “traffic study”? was it a spokesperson for the Port Authority? Someone in Fort Lee? Someone in the Governor’s office?
Where did this line, much repeated and reported, initiate?
AdamK
@catclub: I am imagining a pony. You may have my imaginary pony.
Central NJ Resident
@Comrade Mary:
The planning was done after the fact. It was almost 4 weeks from the “go” order to the actual lane shutdowns.
I believe that they probably discussed the possibility of using PA and DOT to inflict punishment prior, but not in so much detail that they had a plan ready to spring into place.
Alternatively, the 4 week delay was used to create some separation between Christie’s ranting press conference about the Judge and the actual act of retribution, OR, it was timed to inflict maximum traffic by waiting until after Labor day and the normal commuter flows returned to post summer vacation levels.
Central NJ Resident
@SiubhanDuinne:
Christie’s henchman at the Port Authority, Bill Baroni and David Widestein. The traffic study story was probably concocted before the shutdowns as a cover story just so they could brush off any questions from local officials.
Of course no such study actually exists, although I’m sure they tried to create on after the fact and backdate the documents. That in itself will open them up to some serious legal matters.
SiubhanDuinne
@Central NJ Resident: Thanks very much!
Cervantes
@SiubhanDuinne:
Legislators in Trenton accused Wildstein and Baroni of ordering the lanes closed to punish Sokolich. Wildstein and Baroni responded, directly and via the Port Authority’s press office, that the lanes were closed as part of a study of “traffic safety” (the press office subsequently declined to answer questions on the matter). Baroni later testified that the point of this alleged study was to examine the “fairness” of allowing separate (“dedicated”) access for local traffic.
Does that help?
Bobby Thomson
TPM has docs up that seem to support the “senior officials being pricks about a real study” explanation.
Jamey
I think Maddow’s theory is plausible, but, really, David Simon got there way ahead of Rachel:
jc
Whatever the exact details may be, all I know is that ruthless, cut-throat, revenge-seeking right wing frat boys are the last people I want running any City, State or Federal government.
Jamey
@Cervantes:
But since a Republican is involved, that would make it “Dada Issues”…
cwolf
Mmm, hard to choose. Why bother.
Let’s just say CC saw a way to Kill 2 Birds With One Traffic Jam.
cwolf
@Comrade Mary: …asks ” evidence against this being a legitimate traffic study ”
Simple – There Was No Traffic Study.
What that means is that,
There Was No Traffic Study.
and just in case you still don’t understand,
There Was No Traffic Study.
Cervantes
@cwolf: She asked for evidence.
(Not that one can easily prove a negative, of course.)
virginia
My mind is still blown by CC’s freewheeling admission that at 8:50 am on a Wednesday he was to be found in his bedroom, looking at his IPad. This seems like a small thing but it struck me as a very odd thing to cop to, for no particular reason, and the kind of incidental detail that compulsive liars like to engage in. I was like, wow, 9 am, Governor of the State of New Jersey, in your bedroom still? Why go there unless of course you have sold yourself on a series of lies that need to be made credible and so, yeah, insert just enough of the truth to make the performance believable. Classic tell. His whole affect reeks of that person who has come to believe the story he’s made up to cover his ass.
As for Rachel Maddow’s theory, why not? She’s pretty damn brilliant. Just wish she could moderate her delivery and take it down a notch or two. I love what she comes up with and have great respect for her but find her manner of speaking hard to sit through for any length of time. A minor quibble.
Jebediah, RBG
@kc:
I used to work with a guy who started telling me those Clinton stories. He had come under the thrall of one of those conspiracy whackjobs (name escapes me now) and eventually went to wherever that guy was. He used to tell me that when “the time came” they would have the countryside, and “we” would have the cities but if we ventured out of the cities we would be shot. The whackjob dude ended up dying in a firefight, can’t remember if it was with local PD or state or Fed agents.
David in NY
So far the documents mention retaliation. And they mention Sokolich (sp?). They don’t mention Weinberg or that dispute. So I think we shouldn’t get all excited about Rachel’s theory until there’s more hard support for it. I mean, there was no love lost for the “little Serb.”
David in NY
@feebog: Maybe they had another plan for Sokolich for “November”???
Violet
@virginia: I mentioned Christie’s repeating the “8:50 a.m. is when I found out about it” over and over in various ways (“just before nine o’clock in the morning”, “a quarter to nine” etc.) It’s a classic tell. He’s desperate to get that timestamp out there for some reason. Normal people don’t talk like that. Sounds like he’s believing his own story.
There’s also the slip where he says he hadn’t slept well “for the past two nights”. Two nights? When he only just found out about it the previous morning? How does that work?
J R in WV
@Comrade Mary:
I got one thing to say about that “traffic study” thing… you study traffic as it exists in reality. You don’t study traffic as if it were a nest of bees, which you stirred up with a stick before you stared counting.
So the thought that this involved a traffic study only holds water if the study was to see how enraged people can get when their normal and usual traffic patterns are destroyed and they are left with a 4 hour traffic jam.
Traffic studies are conducted with normal patterns and lights and rules, with the addition of counters in all the lanes, those little black tubes that run from boxes chained to fixtures across traffic lanes counting every axle of every vehicle that crosses the counter’s tube.
If you put enough counters across every potential lane and have valid counts of inputs and exits, then you can deduce how volumes of vehicles enter and exit a complex traffic intersection – like a toll plaza with multiple entries from multiple highways,.
If you close several normally-open lanes at random, you aren’t conducting a traffic study, you’re fucking with people at random to no purpose.
That is what happened at Fort Lee, NJ last year.
There was no traffic study, and they can’t make one up, because those puppies are complex, well thought out, and strategic in nature.
They were fucking people over, and it sounds to me like it was done in response to the legislative actions of the Democratically controlled NJ legislature. Christie shouldn’t be surprised if the legislature takes action to punish his fat ass for dicking with Democratic towns, like impeaching him the day after he takes office for a second term, which would make me and lots of other Democrats very happy.
Impeaching Republicans has been one of my favorite things ever since I got to watch the House impeach Nixon, lo these many years ago. Not to mention the Republican controlled House impeach President Clinton, after which the Senate acquitted him!
patrick II
@shortstop:
I don’t know why this is still a question . If there was an actual tracfic stuxy we would have seen it long ago. You know, a sheet of paper with some numbers on it or something. There is none.
Joey Giraud
@beltane:
Perhaps Cristie was channeling King Xerxes of Persia
J R in WV
@chopper:
Yeah, we do take a bath/shower from time to time. I’ve been advised to NOT bathe every day, as it can lead to dry skin/flaking, etc. If I hadn’t bathed in 2-3 days, and was due one, I would be plenty pissed at not getting it on schedule.
But I live in the country, with a well, so I can shower anytime I want, IF I have the electric. Which I do right now.
Thankfully!!
We got an autodial call a little while ago, but it was borked and I have no idea what they wanted to inform us of. We are connected to the “city water” but the meter’s valve has never been turned on, as our well produces more water than a sub-division needs, for about $8 a month in electric bills.
But in town (Charleston) it was weird, as the schools and restaurants and other businesses were closed. I wanted a hot sandwich on the way to the lumber yard, but had to settle for a pack of crackers and a Pepsi, as no one was able to sell food without running water to wash up with.
I hope people actually hurt by Freedumb Industries screw the ownership of the company totally to get their bruised feefees fixed.
Those incompetents have screwed up millions of dollars of infrastructure that it will take weeks to purge of their poison, and when they tell people to start using the water again, it’s still going to be disgusting, as it is difficult to get all the bad water out of a complex and vast system of pipes.
The stench was available to us as a distance of several miles from the river hosting the poison, of which no one will ever know how much actually went into the river.
Shortstop
@patrick II: it ain’t a question for me.
Just doing my part to tamp down the never-ending speculation about the thing that never was.
Misterpuff
@Steve M.: Yeah, but 60 minutes stories were always after the fact trying to tie all the threads together. Maddow is doing it in real time as the threads are be spun out.
Misterpuff
@Steve M.: Yeah, but 60 minutes stories were always after the fact trying to tie all the threads together. Maddow is doing it in real time as the threads are be spun out.