Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Innocent people don’t delay justice.

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

So many bastards, so little time.

In short, I come down firmly on all sides of the issue.

The willow is too close to the house.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?

He really is that stupid.

Russian mouthpiece, go fuck yourself.

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

The GOP is a fucking disgrace.

I’m pretty sure there’s only one Jack Smith.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Let’s not be the monsters we hate.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

“Cheese and Kraken paired together for the appetizer trial.”

Nothing worth doing is easy.

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Motto for the House: Flip 5 and lose none.

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

DeSantis transforms Florida into 1930s Germany with gators and theme parks.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Monday Evening Open Thread: Comedy, It’s All About Timing

Monday Evening Open Thread: Comedy, It’s All About Timing

by | 159 Comments

This post is in: ,

… and when it comes to comic timing, count on the Quitta from Wasilla to keep making a joke of herself and all her marks supporters. Taegan Goddard, in Political Wire:

Extra Bonus Quote of the Day
“Mr. President, in honor of Martin Luther King, Jr. and all who commit to ending any racial divide, no more playing the race card.”

— Sarah Palin, in a Facebook post.

***********

Speaking of bloviating narcissists, program reminder: This Town book chat, tonight at 9pm EST (just over an hour from now).

Apart from that — and the predicted Return of the Not-Exactly-Polar-Vortexing cold & snow for much of the country — what else is on the agenda for the evening?

Reader Interactions

159Comments

  2. 2.

    Kropadope

    Mr. President, in honor of Martin Luther King, Jr. and all who commit to ending any racial divide, no more playing the race card

    Man, no self-awareness in those people. Republicans play the race card 4 times daily before breakfast.

  8. 8.

    A Farmer

    I’m just a dumb hick, but I would really like to see stupid white people please stop playing the race card while accusing black people of playing the race card.

    Taking advantage of the open thread, is it just me, or does it seem like industrial accidents have been coming fast and furious? My rant on that here. Sorry for the blog whoring, but I hate to type so much and get the usual 3 readers.

  9. 9.

    RaflW

    I’m attending a lecture this eve in Minneapolis titled Martin Luther King and Bayard Rustin: Freedom beyond Color and Charachter. Our area UCC seminary’s new president, the Rev Dr Barvara Holmes is about to make remarks on the intersections of LGBTQ and Black struggles for equity.

    Should be good!

    And by good, I mean Palin-infuriating.

  13. 13.

    dmsilev

    Speaking of professional nitwits, the NewsMax feed brings good news this evening: “Dick Morris: GOP Has Shot at Senate”. Looks like Harry Reid’s job is safe.

  16. 16.

    dmsilev

    Also, too, TBogg:

    I am sure that Martin Luther King Jr’s words resonated deeply with Sarah Palin because she has five children (four if you ask Andrew Sullivan) making her one better than MLK (granted, she started earlier). Having said that, if I were her and they were my kids, I wouldn’t be talking about the content of their character so much and might stick with a simpler, pithier “White makes right, LOL!” .

  17. 17.

    geg6

    As I posted on Book of Faces, if she had any less self-awareness, she’d be a black hole in the universe.

  18. 18.

    Anne Laurie

    @Baud: I’ve got a bet with myself as to the ratio of readers versus people-explaining-they’re-too-sophisticated-to-waste-time-with-that-crap. If that answers your question ;)

  24. 24.

    Baud

    @Anne Laurie:

    In most other threads, I don’t usually feel the need to know what I’m taking about before I comment. But I thought maybe you had a higher standard for book chats.

  25. 25.

    dmsilev

    @geg6: Well, the other day Bill Kristol claimed that Hillary was DOOMED, DOOMED I TELL YOU, so I think 2016 is in the bag.

  26. 26.

    ellennelle

    has anyone bothered to point out to these folks – palin most obviously – that just mentioning the race card is itself playing the race card?

    sheez.

  28. 28.

    Anne Laurie

    @geg6: Hah! Last week Dave Weigel pointed out that Bill Kristol was predicting “Hillary is very likely to be out of step with the Democratic primary electorate in 2016… She’ll have a tougher nomination fight than everyone now expects.”

    So far, so good for Hillary…

  29. 29.

    jharp

    Somehow I get the feeling that this is Palin’s “jumping the shark” moment.

    I sure hope so. I am so tired of hearing that empty headed nitwit offering her 2 cents.

    Just go away, Sarah. You have nothing to offer.

    And you are a bigot and a racist.

  32. 32.

    ruemara

    I am, shall we say, very frustrated. I don’t seem to possess the knack of this couchsurfing thing. Which means I shall probably lose my deposit on my classes because I can’t swing classes, travel costs and room and board. I get a step or two forward and slide back 5. I hate this existence.

  35. 35.

    scav

    “Ms. HalfTerm, in honor of Christ and and his bowels, no more playing the Christmas and none but that greeting card.”

    Will never fly.

  37. 37.

    beltane

    @jharp: Sarah Palin’s jumping the shark moment came in the wake of the Gabby Giffords shooting when she claimed she was the victim of a blood libel. She still does a lot of jumping but the sharks are all gone leaving her to look like a poorly drawn cartoon character.

  40. 40.

    Hungry Joe

    Agenda?

    Seven and a half months ago a car crashed through a wall and into my wife’s office. (I wrote about it here.) Her desk slammed into her abdomen and she required four hours of surgery — she lost her gall bladder and part of her liver — and a week’s hospitalization.

    She’s made a 100% recovery. Last week she taught her first nia dance class. We just got back from three days’ hiking in Death Valley.

    Today is her birthday, and we’re going out to dinner. THAT’S the agenda. I kind of like it.

  41. 41.

    scav

    Speaking of Which, How many Surprising losses in bank revenues have come out this reporting period, all blaming Litigation and various else? Deutsche Bank just had one, and off the top of my vaguely noticing head, wasn’t there Morgan Stanley, another similar firm and a big English bank?

    Eta, seems to have been JP Morgan and others. Links with currency manipulation keep cropping up too??

  46. 46.

    MomSense

    My son has been volunteering at our humane society and he has fallen in love with an elder kitty with an attitude who despite being declawed is attacking everyone there. My son is hard to resist though and she has taken to purring and asking for skritches when he is near.

  49. 49.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @geg6:

    Once they do, as I noted on a previous thread, and also assert that the GOP has a shot, then Harry Reid can sleep with no worries at all.

  50. 50.

    Kropadope

    @Baud: She’s the only option I see discussed around here. Hillary’s 2016 prospects seem to find their way into every comment thread around these parts.

  52. 52.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @jharp:

    Somehow I get the feeling that this is Palin’s “jumping the shark” moment.

    Oh, we’re far past that. The shark was jumped when she resigned in mid-term because her current job was getting in the way of her real job, grifing.

  54. 54.

    Baud

    @Kropadope:

    She’s the clear frontrunner. I’d prefer we talk a little less about 2016 and focus on 2014, but if we are going to talk about 2016, it makes perfect sense to talk about Hillary.

  55. 55.

    WaterGirl

    Is anybody here this evening that uses RSS on a mac? I just started using it this week for the first time, and I have a few questions.

    For instance:
    I tried to get just the RSS feed for tbogg, for instance, but instead I get every stupid Raw Story. I tried to get the RSS feed for benen at maddowblog and I don’t get anything.

    Edit: I am using Leaf and Feedly, if that helps.

  56. 56.

    Kropadope

    @Villago Delenda Est: Well, she probably has way more influence on public policy as a grifter also. The noise machine woks way better with every little cog whirring, and hers is a particularly grinding, noisy one.

  57. 57.

    Cervantes

    @A Farmer:

    What the hell is quinoa, they asked.

    Funny. Also liked your “War on Furniture” article, and others.

    Good work. And the photographs are beautiful. Thanks for sharing.

    (Can’t “like” you on Facebook, however, as I don’t use it, sorry.)

  58. 58.

    Roger Moore

    @jharp:

    Somehow I get the feeling that this is Palin’s “jumping the shark” moment.

    She jumped the shark a long time ago. Remember, jumping the shark is when it’s obvious that the writers are out of good ideas and are just putting out whatever crap they can think of, not when cancellation finally puts the show out of its misery. I’d say that Palin’s true jump the shark moment was when she resigned as governor, and now she’s just on endless repeat in syndication.

  59. 59.

    ruemara

    @Hungry Joe: I like your agenda and hoist a decaf in honour of your lovely wife, a full recovery and a good night out.

    @WaterGirl: Bah. I dunno. Maybe it’s a sign. I don’t of what, but it’s probably a sign. I’m starting to believe that maybe I need to stop trying to be an acceptable hire and just create things right now. I’m moving forward with some video projects scheduled for World Water Day and for Earth Day. This mishegoss just needs to go away.

  61. 61.

    Kropadope

    @Baud: Totally with you on 2014. I’ve been doing my research on campaigns for MA governor and just reached out to the Donald Berwick campaign to volunteer.

    I’m going to get out and vote regardless, but treating Hillary as fait accompli years out really saps my enthusiasm. The prospect of a Clinton/Paul race in 2016 has me seeking out information on obtaining Canadian citizenship.

  63. 63.

    Southern Beale

    You know, Sarah Palin writes something on Facebook and I really couldn’t give a shit. She is so irrelevant to the political discourse. I honestly don’t know why anyone is talking about this.

  64. 64.

    MikeJ

    @Anne Laurie: It’s loaded on my nexus, but I can’t remember how much of it I read, and it was over a month ago when I read however much I did. Come 6pm I need to fire up the grill to make pizza though. Just got some 00 flour like all the fancy schmancy people talk about using for pizza and gonna see if it’s really better.

  65. 65.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Kropadope: So make a persuasive and interesting argument for someone else. And remember that scene in A River Runs Through It where Tom Skerritt keeps handing his son his writing and saying “Less”

    I’m still freaked out by the passage in “This Town” (excerpted, haven’t read it) where Tom Brokaw gives a Beltway media “power couple” a pair of Buffalo Bills Jerseys as a way of saying “Welcome to our tribe”

  67. 67.

    Mnemosyne

    @ruemara:

    Crap! We’re in the midst of decluttering, so I don’t have a couch open for you. :-( There were several Juicers at the last GTG who are now verified Not Serial Killers.

    ETA: Did you ever say exactly where your class is going to be? An intersection and city would be enough to figure it out for these purposes if you don’t want to post the exact address publicly.

  69. 69.

    Kropadope

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think that, before I do, I should wait for such a person to, you know, announce their candidacy. The 2014 election season is barely underway and this Hillary fluffing constitutes a push to look past it. They want us to forget that there are other potential candidates for president and other offices that also require competent, well-intentioned people to fill them. Don’t be a victim of the cult of the presidency.

  71. 71.

    Mnemosyne

    @ruemara:

    Etsy. Are you on Etsy? If not, you should be on Etsy. Tons of photographers sell their work on there. Scout around, see what everyone else on the site is charging for prints, figure out how much processing would cost you, and start selling. If Ted & Hellen can sell his artwork, so can you. ;-)

  72. 72.

    pseudonymous in nc

    For some reason, she hasn’t yet been invited as a special guest on Duck Dynasty so that she and Papa Duck can share their wit and wisdom.

  73. 73.

    WaterGirl

    @ruemara: Please don’t give up on your workshop!

    Maybe you could ask Anne Laurie to front page you going to your workshop and needing a spot to stay? Or that you need help with lining something up with couch surfing?

    Or maybe someone here on BJ, even if they can’t put you up themselves, might know a friend. How many days is your workshop?

  74. 74.

    A Farmer

    @Cervantes: Thanks. To be honest, I had to search through to see what posts you were referring to. I’ve thrown a lot of crap up on that blog. Good thing Google gives me unlimited space to cut and paste from other sites.

  77. 77.

    rikyrah

    As I get older, my estimation of Dr. King grows.

    A racist stupid bytch like Sarah Palin has no business even uttering Dr. King’s name.

  80. 80.

    Ruckus

    @Kropadope:
    Who else you got?
    She gets talked about here sure but a lock? No way is that 100% here.
    So as others have said and repeating myself, if you don’t think she’s acceptable, who you got? Yes we have an election this year, just under 11 months away. And it’s important. But so is 2016. People were noticing President Obama in 2004, right now we have only one person who has a large following and some street cred. That’s Hilary.

  85. 85.

    Botsplainer

    @Ruckus:

    Who else you got?
    She gets talked about here sure but a lock? No way is that 100% here.
    So as others have said and repeating myself, if you don’t think she’s acceptable, who you got? Yes we have an election this year, just under 11 months away. And it’s important. But so is 2016. People were noticing President Obama in 2004, right now we have only one person who has a large following and some street cred. That’s Hilary.

    He’s holding out for Dennis Kucinich or Dr St President Jill Stein.

  87. 87.

    ruemara

    @WaterGirl: 2 days. I would truck in on a train around Friday and run back on Sunday eve. We’ll see what happens. I’m going to hit up a few more couch hosts and see if I can generate an Up With People hipster vibe. I think the fact that I’m coming for business and not fun, is the issue. It’s hard to say I’m going to hang and craft some eternal friendship when the honest truth is, I’ll be out working most of the time, the only social engagement I’m looking forward to is a BJ’er meetup and then I have to be at work by 1 tomorrow, so I’ll be heading out on a redeye train to get back by the am. Like a one night stand but with no sex and drinking.

    @Mnemosyne: If there is a person who can end up poorer doing sales, it is me. My hat is off to T&H (did you really have to reference him?) to making art sales that support his self. I do not seem to have the knack.

  88. 88.

    Kropadope

    @Ruckus: I think I answered that here. The Hillary crowd wants to spend 3+ years conditioning us to the idea of a Hillary presidency. This, for right now, is taking our eyes off the ball. Most states have elections for governors this year and changing the make-up of Congress should be priority number one.

  89. 89.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope:

    Hillary’s 2016 prospects seem to find their way into every comment thread around these parts.

    And that’s OK. But you should discuss whoever’s prospects you want to as well.

  90. 90.

    danielx

    Cold. And snow. Another three inches or so tonight, high of 14 tomorrow…Big Pine Key Fishing Lodge is sounding better by the day.

  91. 91.

    Cervantes

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I’m still freaked out by the passage in “This Town” (excerpted, haven’t read it) where Tom Brokaw gives a Beltway media “power couple” a pair of Buffalo Bills Jerseys as a way of saying “Welcome to our tribe”

    When’s the last time Brokaw said or did something you respected or appreciated?

  92. 92.

    Violet

    Sarah Palin has a TV show coming up on a cable station called something like the Sportsman Network.

  94. 94.

    Kropadope

    @Botsplainer: I actually liked the idea of Brian Schweitzer up until about a week ago, when he displayed a complete lack of awareness of where his potential support comes from. No, I’m not rooting for Kucinich or Stein.

    My lack of support for Hillary is not a question of her lack of adherence to a rigid ideological checklist, but rather due to her complete lack of character and uncompromising attitude. While some try to portray her as a conservadem, she’s really a creature of the fighting left. I can understand the appeal after the reception that Obama’s open hand received from Republicans, but I really don’t like the idea of Democrats becoming their mirror image.

  95. 95.

    Cervantes

    @A Farmer: That thing about the runaway train in Quebec … MMA really needs to be made to suffer for it.

    Anyway, how’s the farm?

  96. 96.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Cervantes: Oh, I despise him. It’s just that the personality-death cult around Russert intrigues me, and I had no idea how bizarre it was.

  97. 97.

    Violet

    @Cervantes: I appreciated Brokow when he babbled incoherently–and I mean truly incoherently, not his usual inane blather but where the words make actual sentences–on Morning Joe and it turned out he’d OD’d on Amb1en. Good times.

  100. 100.

    chopper

    In honor of MLK let’s have a stupid white hick lecture a black dude on how to ‘behave properly’ in public.

  101. 101.

    WaterGirl

    @ruemara:

    Like a one night stand but with no sex and drinking.

    You do have a knack for sales! :-)

    There’s gotta be a way to line something up for that short a time. I have faith that you will figure it out. Plus, if you don’t go to the workshop, there’s no BJ meet up, and that would suck.

  103. 103.

    Cervantes

    @rikyrah:

    A racist stupid bytch like Sarah Palin has no business even uttering Dr. King’s name.

    Attacking an ostensible racist by calling her a “bytch” seems to me a less-than-promising approach.

  104. 104.

    Mnemosyne

    @ruemara:

    This is the tough love part of the evening, so be prepared. :-)

    Frankly, it’s because you’re not valuing your work enough. You probably price your stuff at just under what the paper and processing cost you because you worry that you’re overcharging somehow when in actuality there is no possible way to overcharge for your own artwork.

    Let me repeat that: it is impossible to overcharge for your own artwork. Whatever people are willing to pay for it is what it’s worth, and if you don’t value it, no one else will.

    The office where I work has a lot of artists who are working there as their day job, and one of them has a great cartoon up of things you’ll never hear professionals in other fields say — like, you’ll never hear a surgeon say, They want me to do the surgery for free, but they say it’ll be great exposure for my work.

    You need to charge more for your work. Believe it or not, people will respect that, and if they don’t, they were just exploiting you anyway. Get full value for your work, and don’t accept anything less.

    /end tough love

  106. 106.

    Jebediah, RBG

    @A Farmer:

    I can guarantee we’ll see more of it if the folks in charge keep underinvesting in plant infrastructure and safety.

    Most of them will invest as little as they can get away with. If it is insufficient, they will hide behind “we did all that was legally required.” Maybe if we could make them personally liable – if survivors could get at their personal assets in recompense for injuries, etc – they would take safety more seriously.

  107. 107.

    raven

    @Violet: Well, I want to see if it helps with sleep so we’ll see. I have learned a great deal in the past week. Probably the most informative thing I found was this Shoulder Pain presentation from a Duke orthopod. He draws a clear line between pain when you DO things like throw or swim and sleep interrupting pain. While he focused mainly on the former it helped me understand my orthopods perspective. I went in with sleep complaints and wanting to keep swimming. He said he could fix that my repairing the labrum. I have decided to lay off swimming completely and see if that makes the pain/sleep problems subside. I figured the massage could not hurt (afterwards anyway) so here goes.

  108. 108.

    Kropadope

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: My non-Hillary comments drew no responses, I’m now participating in the conversation that others engaged with me. I do, however, find it regrettable that the overwhelming response to my several variants on “what about 2014?” were “find a better Dem for 2016.”

  109. 109.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope:

    My lack of support for Hillary is not a question of her lack of adherence to a rigid ideological checklist, but rather due to her complete lack of character and uncompromising attitude. While some try to portray her as a conservadem, she’s really a creature of the fighting left. I can understand the appeal after the reception that Obama’s open hand received from Republicans, but I really don’t like the idea of Democrats becoming their mirror image.

    Oops — now you’ve almost convinced me to vote for her and ignore everyone else.

    (Almost.)

  110. 110.

    Aji

    @ruemara: What Mnem said.

    We struggle with this all the time. We get people in the gallery who think that they’re somehow doing us a favor by offering 40-50% of the list price for Wings’s work (and no, we don’t barter, and to presume that because we’re Indian we do and must is beyond insulting). We finally got to the point where, if we want to give someone a discount because, you know, they’re repeat customers, friends, in need for some reasons, whatever, we do it – because we want to. Otherwise, the price is what it is, and, oh, yeah, read the sign about how we don’t barter.

    It’s also one of the biggest reasons why I quit freelancing as a writer. Every schmuck out there wanted me to think s/he was doing me a favor by allowing me to write for nothing because they were “giving me exposure.” I’m Indian, not stupid.

  112. 112.

    Belafon

    @Mnemosyne: I have an artist friend. He does large canvases, 8x10ft. He sells them for approximately $30K per picture. He sells the three picture sets to companies.

    @ruemara: My dad discovered when he was a photographer that you can price yourself below what people think something should be, and they won’t buy it. He had to raise his prices to get work.

  114. 114.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope:

    I do, however, find it regrettable that the overwhelming response to my several variants on “what about 2014?” were “find a better Dem for 2016.”

    Overwhelming, schmoverwhelming.

    As I said above, you should discuss whoever’s prospects you want to, for 2014 or 2016.

  115. 115.

    Kropadope

    @Cervantes: I bet you can’t wait for the day that Democrats are filibustering a public option or energy modernization legislation that a Republican president is trying to push through Congress. Every tenet the same as when the Dems tried to push it in the last decade but “we can’t give him the win.”

  116. 116.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @scav:

    How many Surprising losses in bank revenues have come out this reporting period, all blaming Litigation and various else?

    My friends in the business think that everyone’s taking a big bath.

  118. 118.

    RaflW

    @Southern Beale:

    Sarah Palin writes something on Facebook and I really couldn’t give a shit. She is so irrelevant to the political discourse.

    That struck me when I saw this. Its pathetic. She doesn’t have the courage of her own convictions to actually try and say her useless twaddle out loud, so she taps a few keys.

    Go ride a snowmobile, lady governor. Or ride your husband. Whatever. But can the rest of us turn away now? She’s passed through tragic and is now ready to be shunned.

  121. 121.

    Belafon

    @RaflW: Palin’s just the public name so many have for those that think like her. It’s a dog whistle for whiny privileged white woman. Kind of like Paul Ryan is for men.

  122. 122.

    Violet

    @raven: Best of luck with that. I found a terrific massage therapist completely by accident and she really helped me and another friend of mine with some tricky issues. Ask around again–maybe someone has a great suggestion for a massage therapist too.

  123. 123.

    Kropadope

    Well, my post @ 61, my second on this particular thread about the subject, indicates my agreement with 54 that 2014 is definitely where our attention should be. 65 demands an alternative for 2016. At 69 I point out that no one has even officially announced a presidential run, so promoting an alternative would be pointless. Sure enough at 81 and 90, more attempts to solicit such a presidential alternative.

    The misinformed snark that constituted the other responses I have no problem with, I even laughed. Asking for answers I already provided 20 posts back suggests a sort of knee-jerky response. They had to jump defend the anointed one and didn’t bother to see whether anyone else got there first.

  124. 124.

    Kropadope

    @Ripley: I’m pretty sure when I’m responding to the questions I’m asked and others are ignoring those answers, I’m not the one trolling.

  125. 125.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope:

    I bet you can’t wait for the day that Democrats are filibustering a public option or energy modernization legislation that a Republican president is trying to push through Congress.

    Bar-keep, I’ll have what he’s having.

    Actually, make mine a double.

  127. 127.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope:

    I’ve been doing my research on campaigns for MA governor and just reached out to the Donald Berwick campaign to volunteer.

    Kudos.

    Berwick is one of the good ones.

  130. 130.

    Kropadope

    @Cervantes: Hey, a year or 3 is a lifetime in politics. If Republicans keep losing elections, we may get to the point where they are getting Congresspeople and Presidents elected on platforms of inter-party reconciliation. What I’ve encountered here are at least a few people who want to fail to capitalize on that just like Republicans failed to capitalize on Obama.

    “Take no prisoners” isn’t a political strategy, it’s a war strategy.

  132. 132.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope: OK, fair enough. You find me a Republican president who tries to push through a public option or energy modernization legislation and I will vote for her re-election even if HRC is her opponent. That sound like a plan?

  136. 136.

    Kropadope

    @Cervantes: OK, deal. And if Hillary shows evidence of wanting to work well with political opponents, I’ll stop denouncing her in public fora.

  138. 138.

    Ruckus

    @Kropadope:
    You have answered some questions, but it looks like no one cares much for your answers. It’s not that we aren’t concerned about this years election or are overly concerned about 2016, we like to discuss issues that have a semblance of being realistic. Like this one discussing what a fucking idiot the half term gov is.
    The other problem is you came on here complaining about the rest of us and what we wanted to discuss and how upset that made you not getting to discuss what you wanted to. Can’t really speak for anyone else but that most likely made most everyone not give a shit about your opinion. It did me. Pay a little attention and figure out how things work and play along, you’ll get farther. This is a community, a loosely defined one, and we have standards. They are pretty low standards, for example they let me comment here, but they are standards.

  139. 139.

    Kropadope

    @Ruckus: I would like to point out that my initial post was a direct response to the original post and I made a later attempt to point out the grifter class has an overly large effect on policy decisions, perhaps more so than many elected officials. The latter is a serious problem.

    I’m sorry that along the way I mentioned my distaste for treating Hillary as inevitable, not only as nominee but next president. However, it’s the very idea of her inevitability that will wind up discouraging qualified alternatives from emerging.

    I’ve had plenty of worthwhile conversations on here, but nothing draws such an emphatic (and unedifying) response as when I disagree with the general zeitgeist of the locals.

  140. 140.

    Mnemosyne

    @Mnemosyne:

    Also, too, I can drive peeps around even if my couch is currently unavailable. I’m one of those weirdos who doesn’t mind driving in LA traffic (too much).

  141. 141.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope:

    And if Hillary shows evidence of wanting to work well with political opponents, I’ll stop denouncing her in public fora.

    How much evidence do you require?

    Find out which Utah Senator she worked with on S-CHIP while she was First Lady. You may be surprised.

    Find out which Oklahoma Senator she worked with on unemployment benefits in the 108th Congress. You may be surprised.

    Find out which House Majority Leader she worked with on foster care. You may be very surprised.

    I could go on, but here’s the real question: How much do you know about her?

  142. 142.

    kdaug

    @Kropadope:

    Well, my post @ 61, my second on this particular thread about the subject, indicates my agreement with 54 that 2014 is definitely where our attention should be. 65 demands an alternative for 2016. At 69 I point out that no one has even officially announced a presidential run, so promoting an alternative would be pointless. Sure enough at 81 and 90, more attempts to solicit such a presidential alternative.

    You are new around here, aren’t you

  145. 145.

    Kropadope

    @Cervantes: Those are very good examples and your list includes reasons why I was considering supporting her in 2008. She pretty much threw that out the window when, in one of the primary debates, she shamed Obama for daring to present an alternative and, worse, criticizing her plan. I’m paraphrasing, but something along the lines of “This is THE Democratic plan, get on board.”

    It’s easy to work with others when your away from the camera.

  146. 146.

    Kropadope

    @kdaug: I’ve been coming here a long time. Only started posting about a year ago. I swear it doesn’t usually go this poorly.

  147. 147.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope: Wait … you were expecting her to “work well with political opponents” in a primary debate? When they were all competing for the nomination?

    Bar-keep!

    Where’s that damn bar-keep?

  148. 148.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope: It’s not going poorly. Trust me on this.

    As a bonus: I will not hold you to your promise to stop denouncing HRC in public fora.

  149. 149.

    ruemara

    There’s a not a serial killer certification? Why am I never told about these things? Unfortunately, it’s in LA from feb 8th to 9th. I’d need to be down there by the 7th evening and be running back by the 9th evening.

  150. 150.

    Mnemosyne

    @ruemara:

    As with so many things in LA, it’s all about the geography. If the class really is in Hollywood proper, you may be sitting pretty, because Roger’s in Pasadena and you can use the Gold Line train to get to the Red Line through Hollywood and Bob’s your uncle. If it’s on the westside (Culver City or Century City), then things become much more complicated.

  151. 151.

    Kropadope

    @Cervantes:

    Wait … you were expecting her to “work well with political opponents” in a primary debate? When they were all competing for the nomination?

    There’s a difference between drawing a distinction between your opponent and yourself and questioning your opponent’s right to even have a differing opinion.

    @Cervantes:

    It’s not going poorly. Trust me on this.

    Hmm, I’m skeptical. I rarely draw such attention with my posts, but those are always my longest conversations. I don’t want to be generally associated with this variety of conversation. Apparently, people care a lot more when they disagree with you.

  152. 152.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope:

    There’s a difference between drawing a distinction between your opponent and yourself and questioning your opponent’s right to even have a differing opinion.

    Can you provide a quotation (with context)? Thanks.

    Apparently, people care a lot more when they disagree with you.

    Some people act as if they are spoiling for a fight? Ignore them.

  153. 153.

    Mnemosyne

    @ruemara:

    Though I will also say that if the little voice in your head is saying, Jaysus, this is turning into a lot of trouble and I still have time to get a refund, then that’s totally valid, too. Though we would miss having a GTG. :-)

  154. 154.

    ruemara

    @Mnemosyne: I won’t know if it’s the West Ho or Culver location until the week of. Which seems so disorganized. I was planning to come down anyway, since my thought was to get a california rail pass and finally just go about for a bit and take some pictures. It just seems to be worth the risk. It’s not like safe sensible plans have ever worked out right before.

  155. 155.

    Mnemosyne

    @ruemara:

    Then come on down. We’ll figure out how to get you around the LA basin. Metro rail is surprisingly user-friendly — it’s the buses that should be avoided if possible since the routes seem to have no rhyme or reason.

    ETA: To be clear — it’s the Metro (Los Angeles) buses that suck. When I lived on the westside, the Culver City and Santa Monica buses were really good. Metro just has to cover much too large an area to be workable.

  156. 156.

    Kropadope

    @Cervantes: Sorry, this one took some research.

    While the direct quote was framed around accuracy and not as striking as I recalled, there is an absolute thrust of “you should not criticize my plan.”

    In response to mailings Obama sent out in Ohio, Hillary said in a press conference “Shame on you, Barack Obama! It is time you ran a campaign consistent with your messages in public.”

    She disputed his claims that her plan would penalize people. I have found her quoted as considering tax penalties as an enforcement mechanism.

    The NBC debate in Ohio contained the quote I attempted to paraphrase:

    And most importantly, you know, the kind of attack on my health care plan which the University of Pennsylvania and others have said is misleading, that attack goes right to the heart of whether or not we will be able to achieve universal health care. That’s a core Democratic Party value. It’s something that ever since Harry Truman we have stood for.

    Again, not as striking as I recall it. It’s really the “shame on you” comments that better fit the problem I described. In a campaign you have disagreements. These lead candidates to draw distinctions. You may dispute the factual basis for these distinctions (goodness knows campaigns lie), however publicly shaming an opponent for trying to draw these distinctions is inherently anti-democratic. Obama’s response:

    But I have said that 95 percent of our health care plan is similar. I have endured, over the course of this campaign, repeated negative mail from Senator Clinton in Iowa, in Nevada, and other places, suggesting that I want to leave 15 million people out.

    According to Senator Clinton, that is accurate. I dispute it and I think it is inaccurate. On the other hand, I don’t fault Senator Clinton for wanting to point out what she thinks is an advantage to her plan.

    This attitude held true in his future campaigns. I can’t think of a more deceitful political campaign in my lifetime than Mitt Rmoney’s, however Obama never shamed him for his misinformation, in fact he recommended that Romney “Please proceed…”

  157. 157.

    Kropadope

    @Kropadope: And for what it’s worth, putting the mandate in front of affordability really was putting the cart ahead of the horse. The law that was ultimately passed included the mandate but was stripped of many of the cost-control mechanisms (See: death panels). The cost-control mechanisms that were included seem to be working, but were not adequate to the task of making care truly affordable. There are gaps in the subsidies, one was discussed here on Balloon Juice recently that affects married couples with more than one income.

    I don’t fault them for passing an imperfect bill. However, Hillary should have learned well before her 2008 campaign, and considered before her shaming stunt, that Congress might have some input on the details of the law that is ultimately passed.

  158. 158.

    Cervantes

    @Kropadope: What you indicated you had is evidence that HRC questioned Obama’s “right to even have a differing opinion.” You offer this:

    In response to mailings Obama sent out in Ohio, Hillary said in a press conference “Shame on you, Barack Obama! It is time you ran a campaign consistent with your messages in public.”

    That’s not questioning Obama’s right to have a differing opinion, is it? Here’s more of what she said (at that press conference):

    So shame on you, Barack Obama. It is time you ran a campaign consistent with your messages in public. That’s what I expect from you. Meet me in Ohio. Let’s have a debate about your tactics and your behavior in this campaign.

    She was questioning the tactics his campaign was using, not his right to have an opinion different from hers.

    Here’s even more of what she said (when asked about the above remarks at the debate you mention):

    And as I have said many times, I have a great deal of respect for Senator Obama. But we have differences. And in the last several days, some of those differences in tactics and the choices that Senator Obama’s campaign has made regarding flyers and mailers and other information that has been put out about my health care plan and my position on NAFTA have been very disturbing to me. And, therefore, I think it’s important that you stand up for yourself and you point out these differences so that voters can have the information they need to make a decision.

    You disagree?

    Anyway, you add:

    publicly shaming an opponent for trying to draw these distinctions is inherently anti-democratic.

    But that’s not what she was doing. She was, correctly or incorrectly, criticizing his campaign’s tactics. It did not fluster him in the least. He responded in the course of the debate. She responded in return. I really don’t see the problem here.

    As for this:

    I can’t think of a more deceitful political campaign in my lifetime than Mitt Rmoney’s, however Obama never shamed him for his misinformation, in fact he recommended that Romney “Please proceed…”

    Romney and his campaign were utterly shameless. You can’t shame someone who is incapable of feeling shame. Obama was well aware of this and acted accordingly.

  159. 159.

    JAFD

    Found the first volume of memoirs ‘produced’ by Ms. Bristol Palin on sale in a Dollar Tree store (near Bristol, Pa (some chords from the Orlons echo in the background…)) Monday morning*. Considered purchasing it as a gift for one of my wingnuttier friends, decided ‘no’

    *Apologize for delay. Snowpocalypse intervened.

Comments are closed.