As much as I get sick of hearing about them, yeah, a lot more cool stuff happened back in the hippie days.
Talk about whatever.
by DougJ| 229 Comments
This post is in: Open Threads
As much as I get sick of hearing about them, yeah, a lot more cool stuff happened back in the hippie days.
Talk about whatever.
Comments are closed.
pacem appellant
Any Californians have an insight into what’s going on in CA-17, my district? Ro Khanna massively outraised the incumbent Mike Honda–my rep, and I like him! I am a Silicon Valley techie, but I do not like the idea of Marissa Mayer’s pet taking Mike’s seat from him just because a few nutty libertarian-minded Dems think Ro is the answer to feeling under-appreciated in the HoR.
Comrade Jake
I’ve been reading a number of PSH tributes. There are a lot of them out there. The collection of thoughts from the editors over at Roger Ebert’s page is quite good:
http://www.rogerebert.com/balder-and-dash/philip-seymour-hoffman-19672014
I challenge anyone who was unimpressed by Hoffman to read those and not wonder if perhaps they simply missed the boat.
Jewish Steel
The producer Joe Boyd in his book White Bicycles describes rock music as a big, open, mostly empty room in the 60s. Most stuff hadn’t been tried yet. If you tried something new there was a good chance you were the first. That means you can take possession of all the best musical real estate, if you’re bright enough to know it when you hear it.
That is why, musically at least, the 60s have a big leg up on subsequent decades.
Amir Khalid
“I’d like to thank everyone on behalf of the band and ourselves, and I hope we passed the audition.”
On another note, the US$89 pair of underpants. Are these the kind you wear on the outside?
pamelabrown53
Hi, BJers. I’ve been streaming a lot of Netflix via Roku and after going through all 4 iterations of Star Trek and am looking for something, on the whole, uplifting and non dystopian. Came across Battle Star Galactica but that appears to be episode after episode of depressing story lines
Now, I’m not really hung up on sci-fi, so am open to other suggestions..
ranchandsyrup
New RNC “innovation lab” is named after a Nazi pistol/ammo and is Latin for “prepare for war”. Who says there’s no truth in advertising?
Mike E
My sis got a cat and named him JoJo when this album hit, I remember he was floofy in a Tunchian way.
Mustang Bobby
I’ve been playing Meet the Beatles to remember where I was 50 years ago when they arrived in the U.S. I was in sixth grade, just turning into a teenager, the perfect candidate for Beatlemania. I never got over it, thank dog.
Comrade Jake
@Jewish Steel: the irony here being that many of the Beetles’ hits are covers.
Jibeaux
@pamelabrown53: I love BSG, but I’ll suggest Friday Night Lights for uplifting-ishness. Clear heads, bright eyes, can’t lose.
cmorenc
Beatles are hands-down the greatest, most versatile rock band of all-time. Saying this is no disrespect to many extremely worthy others – in fact, the high quality of some of these alternative potential nominees enhances the stature of the Beatles as the best of them all. Of course, in any era or temporal window you care to examine, the crap, the mediocre, and the unimaginatively derivative vastly outnumber quality, and only the best truly endure decades after they originally performed. Even many surviving recordings of the early Beatles while they were still a work in progress aren’t so great, and we’d toss them quickly in the dust-bin if they were by anyone else.
raven
@pamelabrown53: The UK Shameless.
Jibeaux
@Jibeaux: clear heads, full hearts, I mean. “Bright eyes” was our adaptation for a very sweet baby.
raven
@Comrade Jake: “Many”?
Mike E
@Comrade Jake:
Yup, manhole covers.
raven
@Mike E: 20 greatest hits
Side one
“Love Me Do”
“From Me to You”
“The Fool on the Hill”
“I Want to Hold Your Hand”
“Can’t Buy Me Love”
“A Hard Day’s Night”
“Eight Days a Week”
“Day Tripper”
“We Can Work It Out”
Side two
“Paperback Writer”
“Yellow Submarine”
“Eleanor Rigby”
“All You Need Is Love”
“Help!”
“Yesterday”
“Hey Jude” (edited 5:09 version on LP)
“Don’t Let Me Down”
“She Loves You”
“Let It Be”
“The Long and Winding Road”
pete
@Comrade Jake: Uh, no.
Mike E
@raven: My1st venture into Sam Goodys was to purchase the “red” and “blue” greatest hits albums with my paper route money. I borrowed a copy of the White Album, and I got ’em all after that.
eta my White Album CD has a serial number printed on it, I was among the 1st wave to buy it when it was reissued.
raven
Here’s the Beatle’s Greatest 100 songs. I’ll leave it to someone else to count the covers.
pete
@raven: Controversial! Needs more Lennon, and much less McCartney.
dexwood
@Mustang Bobby:
First rock and roll show I ever went to, September 64, Baltimore Civic Center, the Beatles. Tickets were about 3 bucks. I was 13. I still listen them regularly.
pete
@raven: “Twist and Shout” was really the only hit they didn’t write, and that was an album track originally. A couple of other covers got put out as singles in the days when Capitol was trying to make a short-term killing, but none were really big hits.
Nutella
Wow, the hair on those guys. George in a hoodie. And the poor kid who had to kneel in front of John with the lyric sheet in case he forgot to sing ‘I dig a pony’ and said ‘I dig a Pepsi’ instead.
Nutella
@dexwood:
Just looked it up. That $3 would be $22.54 today.
David in NY
Watching those guys always makes me feel really, really old.
ETA: Sorry, that was the young person inside wondering what the hell happened, who wrote that.
Comrade Jake
Sorry, that was sloppy on my part. Their early albums had a good number of covers on them, but yes Twist and Shout is the only hit.
goblue72
@pacem appellant: I’d be shocked if Honda didn’t hold onto his seat. There’s s a strong Indian-American community in his district, but the Southeast Asian community is way larger. And I have a hard time seeing them abandoning Honda.
burnspbesq
Noam Scheiber has lost it.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116424/socialized-law-radical-solution-inequality?a&utm_campaign=tnr-daily-newsletter&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=11838219
raven
@Comrade Jake: Thanks, I was surprised.
MikeJ
Whenever you think that today’s conservatives are the dumbest people to ever live, remember that people were claiming to be unable to tell if the Beatles were boys or girls because their hair came down halfway over their ears.
dexwood
@Nutella: Lawn cutting money paid my way.
Ted
When I see the rooftop concert it’s hard for me to reconcile it with the knowledge that they were about to break up because of personal animosities….
David in NY
@Comrade Jake: @raven: That was very gentlepersonly of everyone. Nice blog here.
pamelabrown53
@Jibeaux: Thanks, Jibeaux. I think I’m looking for “uplifting” because as a long time political junkie, I’m looking for a distraction from all the negativity, outrage and fear.
BTW, what about BSG do you like?
David in NY
As to Chris Christie, I love seeing an ex-prosecutor saying stuff that in his prior life would have sent him laughing hysterically, if not adding an additional count to the indictment for false statements.
different-church-lady
Well, an interesting choice of illustration of that point: a great, rockin’ song that the band couldn’t pull themselves together well enough to do truly decent justice to in performance, partially because Lennon was hooked on heroin at the time. And about a half hour later the cops would show up and end the party. And it all happened on the rooftop because the fabs couldn’t agree on any other way to end the film.
Kinda the same way the Abbey Road cover happened: they couldn’t be bothered to travel anywhere interesting (Mt. Everest) like McCartney wanted, so they just strolled outside during a break.
Summer of Love was part of the past too soon, and it wouldn’t be long before the Donovans would be pushed aside by the Sabbaths and Zepplins. The hangover would encompass the entire first half of the 70s.
Alexandra
http://www.scaruffi.com/vol1/beatles.html
Scaruffi’s infamous rant, which I kinda agree with.
Comrade Jake
@pamelabrown53:
“Mitt” is surprisingly uplifting, and no not in a “Geez I’m glad that douchecanoe didn’t win!” kind of way.
pamelabrown53
@raven: Love most anything British. Didn’t know there was a UK Shameless.
different-church-lady
@David in NY: Oh, we’re like a cat — one moment we’re purring in your lap, and the next we’ve got our teeth into the back of your hand.
Comrade Jake
@David in NY:
Oh, don’t jump to conclusions. Stick around.
pamelabrown53
@Comrade Jake: Hah! Well, I wasn’t expecting “Mitt” but will take a gander.
Omnes Omnibus
@burnspbesq: Access to lawyers is far too expensive for far too many in our society. Vastly expanding and properly funding the public defender system would make our county far more just. Expanding legal aid so that middle class folks would have better access to lawyers for civil matters would also improve justice and equity in this country. I don’t really see how these are ideas are up for debate. Money should not buy “justice.” Measures to prevent that are laudable.
pacem appellant
@goblue72: I leave nothing to chance and prayer. Honda is going to be outspent, as that’s Ro’s only way to have a shot. In a non-presidential year, do you think the base Dems are going to go for Mike, or is Ro going to energize enough young techno-libertarians to counteract Mike’s strong incumbency?
Nutella
@Alexandra:
“Why Don’t We Do It in the Road” was so wholesome, right?
But seriously, yeah, they were like Elvis in that they smoothed out the dangerous stuff into something both wholesome and a little naughty which made them anti-establishment but not TOO anti-establishment.
David in NY
@Alexandra: Yeah, but people like the rock ‘n roll they have, not the one somebody wishes they had. (And I said rock ‘n roll on purpose.)
Paul in KY
Not the best they did. Sounds like a John song (note he is singing the lead).
I haz edit! 1st time in 2 months or so!
different-church-lady
@Alexandra: The idea that they understood “absolutely nothing” of what was going on around them is absurd on its face.
You want to say they weren’t sui generis, fine. But don’t try to convince me they had no musical talent or ideas of their own.
It’s like someone wrote an article saying, “Hey, Picasso didn’t invent cubisim himself!”
Napoleon
@MikeJ:
And they burned their Beatle albums when John made his Jesus quote, which just caused them to laugh at them (by the way, I am currently reading the reissued book on all their EMI recording sessions, and they have a picture of Harrison in it wearing an anti-Beatles shirt from the US that must have come from the wingnut crowd).
SatanicPanic
@Jewish Steel: Only if you ignore all the other genres that were invented since the 60s.
Generational warfare on BJ FTW!
MikeJ
@pamelabrown53:
Many people hate Sorkin because he is stridently uplifting, beyond the point of believability, If you’re not allergic to him, and if you’ve never seen the two season run of Sports Night, you should check it out. Yes, it is set backstage at a ESPN clone’s nightly sportscast. No, it doesn’t really have anything to do with sports. I like the idea of a workplace filled with clever people[1] who mostly like each other but often spar.
[1] Another common knock against Sorkin, everyone is too clever, real people don’t talk like that. I don’t know why anybody would want to watch a show about people who weren’t clever. I deal with enough stupid people in real life. It would be nice if at least in my entertainment people could be clever even when they’re wrong.
Paul in KY
@Comrade Jake: The Beetles, maybe. But not The Beatles.
different-church-lady
@Alexandra:
Shorter Scaruffi: I didn’t listen to any of the Lennon songs after Sgt. Pepper.
Paul in KY
@Mike E: Did you ever play it backwards?
David in NY
@different-church-lady: I always have liked their eclecticism. They would use anything and make it fresh (usually). English music hall songs. Rhythm and Blues. You name it.
Paul in KY
@Alexandra: The rant doesn’t explain the lyrics in the songs, that were original from Paul/John/George.
Comrade Jake
@Paul in KY: Yeah, well… the jerk store called, and they’re out of you.
Alexandra
@different-church-lady:
I suggest you read the entire piece. The Beatles have always been way over-rated. Popular, yes. That’s undeniable.
different-church-lady
@pete: In fact, their very first single would have been a tune they didn’t write, except the band was utterly insistent to George Martin that they wanted “Love Me Do” instead. Reportedly Martin was conflicted about it right up until the last minute. The rest is, literally, history.
They weren’t interested in covers. The only reason there were so many on the first few albums was a combination of (a) that’s just how things were ‘done’ in pop music at the time and (b) they didn’t have enough material of their own to fill an album. “Please Please Me” was essentially their live stage show set taped in a studio.
Mike E
@Paul in KY: Heh, yeah…1st, on a capable turntable, then I recorded it on video when I was in HS AV club, played Revolution No. 9 backwards. Turn me on dead man.
cermet
@pamelabrown53: Babylon 5; uplifting, fun and a lot of fun.
Paul in KY
@Comrade Jake: Got me there…
OzarkHillbilly
@ranchandsyrup: Parabellum had as much to do with the Nazi’s as Browning had to do with the Republicans: Their country of origin is the same.
Mike E
@Alexandra: Fuck you, hater.
Paul in KY
@Mike E: We used a standard turntable, had the needle at end of side & rotated it backwards using a pencil eraser on the record. Don’t know how close we got to 33 1/3, but I heard that & crackling flames & some other stuff I can’t remember now.
SatanicPanic
@Alexandra: The real achievement of the Beatles is that despite about half of their output being crap, they’re still not overrated.
scav
Imagine if we treated food the way we treated music: all the important cuisine must be transgressive, constantly innovative and never ever enthused about a solid effort in a previously existing genre or tweaks that lift a bog standard into something tasty. That Lasagne is just a Cover! Granted, a subset do treat food in such a fashion and its all Hester Blumenthal and bubbles and jels, but even they go through “Comfort Food” phrases and grab cheese sandwiches for actual lunches.
Alexandra
@Mike E:
Are you a child?
BethanyAnne
No, no, please. That’s totally what the world needs, more Baby Boomers telling us how the music of their childhood was the bestest EVAR.
different-church-lady
[Redacted due to reading comprehension fail]
Violet
Just saw this on the NewsMax headlines on the right column:
Is that true? I didn’t know that. Good for her!
Edit: Just looked it up and apparently she’s running for Henry Waxman’s seat.
Mike E
@Alexandra: Of God perhaps, but no troll. Go away.
ranchandsyrup
@OzarkHillbilly: fair enough. the Nazis adopted the name as shorthand for the pistol and the ammo and it is typically associated with them.
different-church-lady
@Alexandra: Does it continue on like the intro? Should I somehow just trust that the rest of it will be less absurd somehow?
cermet
@dexwood: Wow, showing your age! The Baltimore Civic Center! Three bucks?! Amazing. I had a (older) brother that went there to see them, too.
scav
@different-church-lady: There were a few more sentences in that, actually, so we may closer than you think. If, in fact, I have any firm position on the original topic of exact ranking of the Beatles in any inerrant pantheon, actually.
Eta, no worries.
different-church-lady
The Rolling Stones: a band that produced amazing singles, but unlistenable albums. Discuss.
Cassidy
Never been a big fan of the Beatles; nothing critical, just generational. My favorite song is a George Harrison one, though.
raven
@pamelabrown53: it’s the original and we really liked it. Had to use subtitles but it was hilarious.
Violet
TPM reports that Mike Huckabee is now the GOP frontrunner.
Cassidy
@different-church-lady: Still better than Van Halen.
raven
@BethanyAnne: No one has to TELL anyone anything. It’s a simple fact.
Citizen_X
@different-church-lady: Summer of Love was part of the past too soon, and it wouldn’t be long before the Donovans would be pushed aside by the Sabbaths and Zepplins.
ranchandsyrup
The problem with Scotland is that it is full of Scots. Also, chock full o’ marriage equality. Well done.
Comrade Jake
@Violet: Spotted that earlier today. They simply have an extremely shallow bench.
I will be very surprised if Jeb doesn’t choose to run, because honestly it would be a cakewalk for him over the cast of clowns they have currently.
SatanicPanic
@different-church-lady: Gimme Shelter and Dead Flowers weren’t singles.
different-church-lady
@Cassidy: Which Van Halen? I consider the DLR and Hagar eras to be two separate bands.
(Yeah, I know, the answer is “Still better than either”.)
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: Exile on Main Street. Your premise has been refuted.
Alexandra
@different-church-lady:
That wasn’t the intro. It’s definitely worth a read. I was born at the end of ’63. Beatlemania didn’t mean much too me and 50 years later, from that period, if I’m going to listen to music from the 60s, I’d probably listen to the Stones, Dylan, Zappa, Hendrix, James Brown some early krautrock, plenty of soul and jazz etc.
Sorry for treading on your dreams. And as for the weirdly vexed Mike E making peculiar rapey-like threats for suggesting the Beatles weren’t all that, all I can suggest he might benefit from chilling out a bit.
different-church-lady
@Comrade Jake: Let’s be fair here: their starters are extremely shallow as well.
Paul in KY
@SatanicPanic: Great comment. They certainly had their share of shlock among their huge output.
People who were not there in late 64 have no idea how big a thing they were & how revolutionary their music was (at the time).
5 songs (1 – 5 in billboard top 100). Radio stations playing ‘I Want to Hold Your Hand’ 20 times in a row, etc, etc.
Paul in KY
@BethanyAnne: Well, it was! Nyah ;-)
different-church-lady
@SatanicPanic: True, but my point is better illustrated by observing that I could easily live the rest of my life without ever hearing everything between Gimme Shelter and You Can’t Always Get What You Want ever again.
David in NY
Instead of comparing the Beatles to music that came after, or significantly before, them, let’s just look at the US top 20 for 1962, when they broke in in the UK:
1. Stranger On the Shore, Mr. Acker Bilk
2. I Can’t Stop Loving You, Ray Charles
3. Mashed Potato Time, Dee Dee Sharp
4. Roses Are Red (My Love), Bobby Vinton
5. The Stripper, David Rose
6. Johnny Angel, Shelley Fabares
7. The Loco-Motion, Little Eva
8. Let Me In, The Sensations
9. The Twist, Chubby Checker
10. Soldier Boy, The Shirelles
11. Hey! Baby, Bruce Channel
12. The Wanderer, Dion
13. Duke of Earl, Gene Chandler
14. Palisades Park, Freddy Cannon
15. Breaking Up Is Hard to Do, Neil Sedaka
16. Wolverton Mountain, Claude King
17. Slow Twistin’, Chubby Checker
18. It Keeps Right On A-Hurtin’, Johnny Tillotson
19. The One Who Really Loves You, Mary Wells
20. Good Luck Charm, Elvis Presley
“Twist and Shout” was no. 38, the Isley Bros.
Fond as I am of these songs (I remember almost all of them), some of which are classics of their own genre, I have no hesitation in saying the Beatles were a big step out of a hole pop music had dug for itself.
kindness
I keep waiting for the Beatles Let It Be video to be released in DVD. It was out on VHS but they never released it on a disc. From what I have heard Paul didn’t like that the film showed the band behaving badly with each other when they were making the album. I get that. Paul is allowed to have his ego and to even paper over what they were all like as 20 somethings but c’mon not guys. I want to see it in my living room. Release the damn thing on DVD or Blu-ray for christ sakes.
Trollhattan
Significant cohort wanted to plop The Beatles into a box ex post facto, given how quickly they hit (the States), ascended to unthinkable heights and then “poof” were gone. Depending on how you divvy it up, their time in the limelight was a scant six or seven years–or about the time it took to produce two Steely Dan albums (kidding, sort of). What they spanned musically in that time is phenomenal.
IMHO they announced “we’re leaving all this old rubbish behind” with the last cut on Revolver–“Tomorrow Never Knows.” That was 1966, followed by a (for them) long silence, then some singles, then “Sgt. Peppers.” And whatever one thinks of that last today, artistically, it completely changed pop music.
Napoleon
@SatanicPanic:
From the same album as Gimme Shelter the same could be said of Monkey Man and You Don’t Always Get What You Want. I have always thought that many of their albums are weak, but not Let it Bleed.
Paul in KY
@different-church-lady: They certainly had more than their share of shlock on their albums. It would be 2 or 3 mighty songs and 8 crappy ones.
Trollhattan
@Violet:
Can we be that lucky? Has Rih started his 99-county Iowa tour yet?
Mike E
@Alexandra: I’m totally chill, not rapey, and you’re what’s called in the biz, “Beatle hater” and history revisionist, so, sorry, but, fuck off.
Amir Khalid
@Omnes Omnibus:
And the under-rated Goat’s Head Soup, and Let It Bleed, and Black and Blue …
Paul in KY
@Alexandra: That wasn’t a ‘rapey threat’. You shouldn’t throw that word around, IMO.
if you are thin skinned, this may not be the blog for you.
pamelabrown53
@cermet: Babylon 5: wrote it down. And to MikeJ will check out Sorkin’s Sports Night.
I’m getting some good suggestions. I remember when “Game of Thrones” debuted and it was a big topic here. I mentioned the misogyny and violence and was told by multiple posters to read the books to form a more complete opinion. Well, I purchased all 5 books, read the gazillion pages, (I have this thing about finishing the books I’ve started)…and the upshot was I gave the whole set away. Too violent and the unrelenting horrible events that happened to anyone remotely good (even children) left me despondent..
Trollhattan
@Napoleon:
IMNSHO the three-album span of Beggers Banquet, Let it Bleed, and Sticky Fingers was a phenomenol run–the best of their vast catalog.
Paul in KY
@David in NY: It was super-crappy back then. The Beach Boys were considered edgy.
SatanicPanic
@different-church-lady: Aw, no love for Monkey Man, Love in Vain, Country Honk, Live With Me, Let It Bleed… basically the only stinker on that one is Midnight Rambler. Song goes on forever.
pete
@different-church-lady: Well put!
Citizen_X
@pamelabrown53: @cermet: I was going to suggest Babylon 5, mainly because I’m going through the whole thing right now. (But: Netflix has NO STREAMING! Only DVDs. Ugh.)
It’s not really dystopian or utopian, more…realistic. Heavily political (but with different species, so you have some distance). But great characterization. And because it’s about a diplomatic/trading station in neutral territory, it’s always about the struggle for peace and self-determination in the midst of war, chaos and oppression.
Violet
@Trollhattan: Don’t know if he’s started the tour, but word is he’s gearing up to run again. I can’t wait for the debates! Just how many clowns can they fit onstage at one time? And didn’t the GOP decide to limit the debates (to limit the damage) and only broadcast them on Fox or something? That’s the way to reach the people!
different-church-lady
@SatanicPanic: Opinions are like the termination point of the human digestive tract, and I’m glad to see we both have functioning systems.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amir Khalid: Actually, Let It Bleed, Sticky Fingers, and Exile on Main Street are about as good a three album run as any band is likely to have.
Trollhattan
@pamelabrown53:
Watched Bab 5 sporadically and always enjoyed it. Don’t have a sense of how it holds up as a series. (For the record I loved the second BSG.)
Sports Night was my introduction to Sorkin and really hits a lot of high marks for smart, funny, rapid-fire dialogue unseen since Billy Wilder. During its brief run I kept asking myself “Is this really on teevee?”
rikyrah
Obama Aides Doubt Clinton Strategy
“She doesn’t need this,” says Benenson. posted on February 3, 2014 at 10:49pm EST
\
Top advisers and former aides to Barack Obama say Hillary Clinton is repeating the mistakes she made in 2008, building a machine in lieu of a message and lumbering toward the Democratic nomination with the same deep vulnerabilities that cost her the nomination eight years earlier.
The former secretary of state has offered her tacit blessing to a series of Democratic organizations, including a draft group, Ready for Hillary, which was recently taken over by a former Clinton aide, and Priorities USA Action, the Obama super PAC repositioning itself to raise huge sums for Clinton. The moves have been effective in telegraphing to other would-be candidates that they may have a hard time raising money and building an organization, and in establishing the sense of inevitability that was central to her 2008 campaign — a perception that also backfired badly.
“I just don’t see any strategic value in stories positioning her as inevitable or the preemptive nominee, and I don’t think people who are out there talking about this help her, and I think she should make that clear,” said Joel Benenson, Obama’s chief campaign pollster and now the top White House pollster. “She doesn’t need this. If she decides to run for president, everybody knows she’s going to be able to raise money, everybody knows she’s going to be extremely formidable, that she’s going to have a significant network of supporters around the country — so what’s the value of all this in 2014?”
http://www.buzzfeed.com/bensmith/obama-aides-doubt-clinton-strategy
Mustang Bobby
@dexwood: November 1969, East Grande Ball Room, Detroit: Jethro Tull. Opening act, some unknown group called “Chicago.” $5.00.
Alexandra
@Mike E:
What biz is that? The biz of insulting people on blog comments, making immature patriarchal threats of penetrative violence in response to someone saying that they think a particular band is over-rated? That’s some serious biz, then. I’m suitably impressed.
I don’t hate The Beatles, I just don’t think that musically they compare to other artists and happen to agree with Scaruffi, which he puts a lot of thought into. I’m not sure why venturing this opinion has riled you so much, but it’s clearly your problem, not mine.
David in NY
@Paul in KY: I’m gonna walk back slightly the import of that list, though. If you browse the top hits for the rest of the decade, the list if full of crappy, synthetic songs. I mean, something called “Little Green Apples” beat out “Hey Jude” for top record of 1968 at the Grammy’s. But at the time, they seemed a breath of fresh air.
Jewish Steel
@SatanicPanic: Oh absolutely. That’s why I qualified my statement with the word “rock” in the first sentence. Hip hop, dub, reggae, dancehall, outlaw country, honky tonk country, badonkadonk country, and innumerable dance genres are all off the table.
But I like intergenerational warfare too! Get off my old timey lawn!
Mike E
Trollll
eta DougJ?
rikyrah
Talking Points MemoVerified account@TPM ·
Scalia: Courts could approve WWII-style internment camps again someday http://bit.ly/1aonXJC pic.twitter.com/RjJAIHe5zq
pete
@Omnes Omnibus: Speaking as an even bigger fan of the Beatles than the Stones — I agree. Well, you don’t call Dylan a band do you? Because Highway 61 Revisited/Blonde on Blonde surrounded by Bringing It All Back Home and John Wesley Harding remains pretty celestial. More recently, I am extremely partial to Time Out of Mind/Love and Theft/Modern Times, too.
different-church-lady
@Jewish Steel: Kids today really don’t know how to stand on a lawn like they did in my time.
rikyrah
Medicaid expansion sure is popular
02/04/14 10:08 AM
By Steve Benen
Medicaid expansion under the Affordable Care Act enjoys quite a bit of support from health care experts, hospital administrators, most of the nation’s governors (from both parties), advocates for low-income families, and those with policymakers with access to calculators.
But it’s worth keeping in mind that voters are on board, too. The Washington Post reports today on a new survey from the Wason Center at Christopher Newport University, which found that 56% of Virginia residents support expansion – a top priority for Gov. Terry McAuliffe (D), who made this a key part of his 2013 platform.
And it’s not just Virginia. Two weeks ago, a statewide poll in Kentucky found that 79% of state residents agreed with Gov. Steve Beshear’s decision to expand Medicaid coverage. Even 60% of Kentucky Republicans support the idea, suggesting Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R) hasn’t exactly persuaded his own in-state allies on the issue.
And the week before that, a statewide survey in South Dakota found 63% of state residents are on board with Medicaid expansion.
It’s one thing for the right’s arguments against Medicaid expansion to fall short in states like Vermont and Hawaii, but these polls suggest the conservative talking points aren’t connecting in Virginia, Kentucky, and South Dakota, either.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/medicaid-expansion-sure-popular
Jim Faith
It’s always been my understanding that Lennon-McCartney wrote Rubber Soul after hearing and in response to Pet Sounds by the Beach Boys. Just last week, I heard somewhere (quasi-reliable source that I don’t remember exactly) that Brian Wilson wrote Pet Sounds in response to Rubber Soul. Any comments? IMO, both are as fresh today as they were in 1965-66.
SatanicPanic
@Paul in KY: I was just listening to Lucy in the Sky With Diamonds the other day thinking- this is basically the template for all pop today and no one else was doing anything like it back then. Maybe Good Vibrations. But the idea that you could have written a song with a HUGE chorus like that with a melody totally different from the verse must have blown minds. Now people do it all the time and I was struck how contemporary that song still sounds. If people didn’t recognize it as the Beatles you could dub in Eminem rapping over the verses and it would be a big hit and wouldn’t even sound out of place.
Glocksman
@Alexandra:
He makes some interesting points, but as a whole the piece comes off as a ‘I’m hipper than those Beatle loving squares’ screed.
Only time I’ve ever heard or read about Ringo Starr being the sole Beatle with ‘technical competence’.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Ted: The breakup wasn’t a surprise if you watch the “Let it Be” movie which the clip is from. What is surprising is that they came back into the studio and recorded “Abbey Road” 6 months later.
MikeJ
@Omnes Omnibus:
Liz Phair did it better. Hell, Pu__y Galore[1] did it better. But neither would have done it without the original.
[1] FYWP
Jewish Steel
@different-church-lady: I know! What with their straw hats and tricking the neighborhood kids into painting a fence.
Neddie Jingo
@Alexandra:
Yeah, that’s when you know you’re in the presence of a true expert — an assertion like this proves that while two wrongs don’t make a right, 13.44698 wrongs make 0.8664 rights, which is close enough for postmodern critical theory.
(Zappa, for all love? Zappa!?!?!?)
Albert Goldman called. He wants to tell all about how John Lennon was a really shitty guitar player. You can tell from the final mix of “All My Loving,” where you can barely hear him at all. Those triplets were actually played by Bernard Purdie.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim Faith: Rubber Soul was released in December of ’65. Pet Sounds was released in May of ’66. Not conclusive, but strongly indicative.
Violet
@pamelabrown53: If you haven’t seen “Freaks and Geeks” you might want to check that out too. It’s high school in 1980 and Judd Apatow is one of the executive producers. It’s got a lot of his “crew” in there–Seth Rogan, Jason Segal, James Franco. It’s funny and accurately captures high school and you get 80’s music. It was canceled in its first season so there aren’t too many episodes. Wouldn’t say it’s uplifting necessarily, but it’s very funny and real. I think it’s on Netflix.
different-church-lady
@SatanicPanic: If you really want some perspective on that point, track down the mono mix of LSD. The stereo is so tame by comparison.
In fact, I frequently wondered what all the fuss was about regarding Sgt. Pepper. The a couple of years ago I finally heard the mono version, and the penny dropped.
SatanicPanic
@Jewish Steel: Ouch I guess I shoulda read better. You’re right that we all live in the 60s shadow when it comes to rock but I like the 70s better just because the guitars sound meaner.
kindness
WTF is up with some of you? Alexandra – knock off knocking the Beatles. No one here will say they are the best ever but suggesting they suck shows shit for brains (or opinions) on your part. different-church-lady – Lay off the Stones. Beggars Banquet >Let It Bleed>Sticky Fingers > Exile On Main Street. You won’t find 4 better albums in a row from any band ever…including the Beatles.
I was born in 57. My coming of age era was the late 60’s early 70’s. Rock’s worst era was the 80’s. That is my opinion. You don’t have to share it.
My first album was The Beatles Second Album which my older cousin gave us. The first album I bought was Sgt. Peppers when it came out. My father took me to the store and on the way counseled me that I shouldn’t buy it because the Beatles had just had a press conference where they said drugs were OK. I told him I didn’t care what they thought but I liked their music. He never tried to stop me from buying it. God love ya Dad.
Jewish Steel
@Alexandra: @Glocksman:
Utter bullshit.
Paul in KY
@David in NY: True, back in mid 70s there was that Streak song…
Pre-Beatles it all sounds so bubble-gummy (except for the blues/R & B scene).
dexwood
@cermet: Don’t mind showing my age, happy to be around still. Thought I’d be dead by 30 but things didn’t work out.
Patricia Kayden
@Violet: For what? Sexism?
There is no way he could win a national election.
pete
@Omnes Omnibus: Brian Wilson and Paul McCartney have been pretty open about their attempts to top each other’s work. Both those albums raised the stakes, as did Revolver, but I think Sgt Pepper helped drive Brian round the twist, because it was just too much. (Yes, I am avoiding work, how did you guess?)
Omnes Omnibus
@Jewish Steel: The Sex Pistols were far less musically competent than the Beatles and had a huge musical influence. Influence does not necessarily stem from virtuosity.
Alexandra
@Glocksman:
I don’t think he was striving for ‘hipper’. His central premise, as a music critic, covered in the first paragraphs, was that rock couldn’t be considered a serious art-form when it was entangled in notions of popularity… and that there were far more talented musicians and composers around at the time that were pushing the boundaries of the form.
Thanks for reading it at least and engaging with the argument on its own terms, instead of getting weirdly overwrought about it… unlike some others.
Paul in KY
@Jim Faith: I think Rubber Soul was released prior to Pet Sounds. Beatles had also released Revolver by then (which I think is even a little better than Rubber Soul).
Jewish Steel
@SatanicPanic: Yeah, whenever I prefer one of two similar things, it’s always the guitars I’m really being moved by.
That’s why I never liked Chicago, Elton John, Billy Joel. Decent pop, but too pianistic or shudder brassy.
Mike E
@Jim Faith: @SatanicPanic: IIHC it was a good-natured back and forth with the Beach Boys where the BBs were a bit put out by the Fabs’ dominance in the US, and the Beatles were just genuine fans of theirs and of the CA scene in general.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus:
And thenEventually* The Beatles would return the volley with Sgt. Pepper — a corner shot so skilled that Brian Wilson’s already delicate emotional state had no chance of getting to it.(*ETA: I’m an idiot for leaving Revolver out of the cronology)
MikeJ
@kindness:
The decade with the Replacements, Hüsker Dü, REM, Black Flag, Circle Jerks.
Sure, the stuff on the radio was mostly crap, but at least the Singing Nun never charted.
Paul in KY
@SatanicPanic: How about Norwegian Wood or Day Tripper or Tax Man?
Agree wholeheartedly with your comment.
Quaker in a Basement
@raven: Nothing from the White Album?
DFH no.6
@BethanyAnne:
Baby Boomer here (pushing 60).
I don’t think the music of my childhood was the best ever. I think overall today’s music is (so far). Say, the past decade and half or so of good new bands/tunes.
In the indie/alternative rock and pop set of genres analogous to the 60s music discussed here, anyway.
Way more good and great stuff in that vein out there now than ever before (and plenty of crap, true, but it’s not hard to avoid that stuff today, unlike the olden days before the internet when radio ruled).
But the Beatles? Pretty much what SatanicPanic said in comment 66.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: This is good news for Americans but a nightmare for Republicans. Poor dears.
Paul in KY
@Glocksman: Now that line is laughable. Ringo was/is a fine drummer. Paul is considered a great bassist. John & George both fine guitarists.
Alexandra needs to consider other opinions than this dude.
Jewish Steel
@Omnes Omnibus: I know that’s the general consensus. But listen to Anarchy In The UK again. How poppy that song is. It’s got flange all over the guitars for a whirly, leslie cabinet effect. Tons of overdubs. I think that Glenn Matlock and Steve Jones were far more astute creators of rock music than they liked to let on. Plus John Lydon, when he’s on, is a top ten all-time vocalist (not singer) in my book.
rikyrah
Nerdy Wonka @NerdyWonka
Follow
Pres. Obama: “Only about 30% of our students have true high speed internet in the classroom. In South Korea, that’s 100%.” #ConnectED
10:49 AM – 4 Feb 2014
Nerdy Wonka @NerdyWonka
Follow
POTUS: “In a country where we expect free wifi with our coffee, we should definitely demand it in our schools.” Students applaud #ConnectED
10:50 AM – 4 Feb 2014
Nerdy Wonka @NerdyWonka
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POTUS: “Every student here has access to their own iPads. They’re animating movies, creating blogs.” It was made possible by stimulus funds.
10:51 AM – 4 Feb 2014
Nerdy Wonka @NerdyWonka
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PBO: The FCC is announcing a downpaymenrt of $2B to connect more than 15K schools & 20M students to high-speed broadband over the next 5yrs
10:53 AM – 4 Feb 2014
different-church-lady
@Mike E: In fact, McCartney appears on “Smile”.
@Alexandra:
If that isn’t the very definition of stereotypical hipster attitude toward music I don’t know what is.
Jewish Steel
@MikeJ: Elvis Costello did his best work in the 80s too. The Pogues, The Pixies. Still, I remember the 80s as ten years worth of waiting for music to get better. The sound quality in the early digital era still sounds like shit.
Anoniminous
@rikyrah:
If you look closely at the polling about ObamaCare it is clear the majority do not support it, as is, but there is a strong majority that do not want it repealed and a majority that want it expanded. The national media is very carefully ignoring the last two findings.
Napoleon
@Jim Faith:
Rubber Soul predates PS by 6 months. Heck, by the time PS came out I bet Revolver was being recorded.
Mike E
@Jewish Steel: Neil Young nods his head in agreement, there.
Alexandra
@Jewish Steel:
I think the Pistols and Malcolm McLaren had listened to Slade a little more than they let on. If it came down to the test of time from that period, though, I’d possibly put my money on The Clash.
Kay S
@BethanyAnne: Don’t worry; we boomers will be dead soon, and then some youngsters will start razzing your bestest music, too. Be charitable and let us hum to ourselves a bit longer; as we are, so shall you be.
MikeJ
@Jewish Steel:
And everything today is compressed to hell and back. It was technical limitations/lack of experience in the new medium that screwed things up then. Now it’s just bad taste.
different-church-lady
@Jewish Steel: The problem is the “80s” are defined by what got played on MTV, not what was made.
Same can be said of many eras: the pop music of the 70s completely sucked, as long as you’re willing to disregard all those amazing Stevie Wonder records in order to assert it.
Paul in KY
@kindness: Led Zeppelin had quite a streak going. That 4 in a row you mentioned was heroic.
Napoleon
@Glocksman:
Paul McCartney may be a better drummer then Ringo (he actually is the drummer on a number of their songs).
That anti-Beatle article is just a complete pile of BS. They were doing stuff no one else did.
Jewish Steel
@Mike E: Yeah. He’s one of the few who actually, like, heard how awful those recordings sounded.
Paul in KY
@Omnes Omnibus: Sid Vicious couldn’t even play his instrument. I don’t think they had it plugged in during their shows.
rikyrah
February 04, 2014 2:50 PM
Big Farm-a Wins Again
The final 5-year Farm Bill steaming towards the president’s desk after extended delays killed direct cash payments to farmer, and the SNAP (food stamp) cuts in the bill were limited to the “heat and eat” scenario where states artificially qualified beneficiaries for SNAP by paying them token amounts of low-income heating assistance. Not so bad, eh?
Not so fast says David Dayen at TNR. Perhaps the SNAP carnage was limited, but the “reform” of farm programs in the bill has been grossly oversold. The shift from direct payments to crop insurance, for example, is less impressive when you realize the extent to which producers are virtually guaranteed public funds to pay for insurance premiums, whether or not they register losses. And the crop insurance program’s costs have been rising even in years when profits are reasonably high.
On another front, the effort to discourage big public subsidies for large agribusiness concerns, the final bill may have been worse than either of the original House and Senate versions. Notes Dayan:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2014_02/big_farma_wins_again048925.php
different-church-lady
@MikeJ: Part of the problem is too many engineers are in love with all the plugins they can add to ProTools. Mastering engineers used to be the culprits, but now the guys (and it’s still mostly guys) mixing the tunes are crushing the life out of everything before it even gets to the mastering stage.
But I’m seeing a slow reversal now. The over-compressed sound is going out of style. Extreme distortion, however, is showing no signs of slowing down.
TheBus18
@kindness:
I love The Stones, and I’d say “Let It Bleed” and “Sticky Fingers” are great albums, and “Exile” is a really good album. But I will go to my grave saying that “Rubber Soul,” “Revolver,” “The White Album” and “Abby Road” are some of the greatest pieces of work ever produced in Rock history.
And as John Lennon said, The Stones basically copied whatever The Beatles were doing, anyway. Beatles released “Norwegian Wood,” and then The Stones did “Paint It Black.” I could go on, but I won’t.
Jewish Steel
@Alexandra: Believe it or not, I can sing almost as loud as Noddy Holder. As well? Eh. Maybe not.
I agree about The Clash. Mick Jones in particular.
Napoleon
@different-church-lady:
A not to well kept secret, the Beatles and George Martin didn’t give a flip for the stereo versions which were mixed as afterthoughts. The effort at mixing their records were in the mono mixes. (I even think the first few British records of theirs the stereo wasn’t even a mix, they just dumped some of the 4 tracks of the tape they were using on one channel and the rest on the other).
Paul in KY
@different-church-lady: How can a composer push the musical boundaries (of others) if they are so obscure they never get heard?
Jewish Steel
@MikeJ:
Plus cocaine, according to reliable witnesses.
different-church-lady
@Napoleon:
McCartney’s drumming is completely wooden compared to Ringo’s. It worked on Back In the U.S.S.R., because straight-on thumping worked for that tune. But the only reason he even got behind the kit that time was because Ringo had temporarily quit the band and the other three decide to just carry on until they could talk him into coming back.
rikyrah
In a Private Meeting John Boehner Says Helping The Unemployed Would Be a Bad Thing
By: Jason Easley
Tuesday, February, 4th, 2014, 1:54 pm
In a private meeting, John Boehner explained to his fellow Republicans why they should cave on the debt ceiling. Boehner warned House Republicans if they didn’t pass a clean debt ceiling increase something they didn’t like could happen like an extension of unemployment benefits.
According to Roll Call,
http://www.politicususa.com/2014/02/04/private-meeting-john-boehner-helping-unemployed-bad.html
rikyrah
February 03, 2014 3:50 PM
Medicaid Waiver Door Closing?
By Ed Kilgore
As anyone closely watching the battle over Medicaid expansion is aware, HHS has been holding out the lure of granting waivers to states who are willing to expand eligibility in exchange for their own ideas of “reform” of the program. Arkansas was the first in line, basically securing a 100% federal subsidy for privatizing Medicaid’s insurance offerings, making it a “premium support” system similar to the Obamcare exchanges. This wasn’t terribly earth-shaking, since Medicaid had been approving waivers for use of private managed care companies for decades. Then Iowa secured a waiver that allowed for an expansion accompanied by increased cost-sharing for beneficiaries, which is contrary to Medicaid’s history of free services for people who qualify. Pennsylvania has been seeking a similar waiver.
This trend led some of us to fear that the optional Medicaid expansion could turn into a free-for-all where Republicans get the feds to pay for all their health care policy pet rocks. So I am pleased to be reminded by Stateline’s Michael Ollove that HHS’s waiver capacity is limited:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal-a/2014_02/medicaid_waiver_door_closing048905.php
Jewish Steel
@different-church-lady: This is true. I had knowledge about the kind of stuff I wanted to hear and buy, but my local record shops didn’t carry it.
So, uh, hooray for the market? I guess so.
Glocksman
@Napoleon:
I’m not a huge Beatles fan, but an awful lot of groups and musicians that I *do* like name Lennon and McCartney as being among their primary influences.
pamelabrown53
@Violet: Thanks Violet. The Netflix streaming part is kinda important as I’m an insomniac and the streaming allows me to binge watch after my partner who wants to be with me falls asleep (she has her own media world in the upstairs loft) then expresses her displeasure when I’m watching the 120th episode of “Star Trek: The Next Generation”.
different-church-lady
@Napoleon: True. The well kept secret part is that almost nowhere else in their catalog were the qualitative differences between the mono and stereo so stark as they were with Pepper. Not only had they still not gotten the knack of how to mix in stereo, they also didn’t put the time in to recreate all the treatments they had done in the mono.
Most of the other records the tracks give you roughly the same impression, whether stereo or mono, with the monos usually having slightly more impact. But with Pepper it’s almost like two different records. The only other I can think of off the top of my head is Revolution — the mono will leave you feeling slightly squashed in your chair. Emerick really topped himself on that one.
SatanicPanic
@Paul in KY: Those are great songs, but it still seems like they were sticking to formula. Sgt Peppers was where they totally exploded it. I don’t even like that much of that album, but I think anyone has to respect what they did. Revolver, Rubber Soul and the White Album were all better, but I don’t think they were as revolutionary. I don’t know though, I wasn’t alive back then.
Neddie Jingo
@Alexandra: You know, I have nothing against contrarian opinion, iconoclasm, declaring that idols have feet of clay, etc., etc. But what I can’t abide is opinion that is based on erroneous understanding of fact. Your Mr. Scaruffi evidences no understanding of the order in which things happened in the Sixties, and so clearly (and self-servingly) mixes up cause and effect on matters of historical record that he really shouldn’t be taken any more seriously than he is.
Mike E
@different-church-lady: No Rings, no Fabs, period. Richie was/is a drummer’s drummer, you should listen to that Classic Albums docu on Lennon’s Plastic Ono Band where they isolate Starr’s track…you hear it in seconds.
MikeJ
@Jewish Steel:
First show I ever worked running sound the board was in the balcony of this old theater. Light guy comes leaves the board and goes over to a spot that we had locked down, irises it down. He finds a waitress carrying a tray on the main floor, aims at her tray and flashes the spot, moves it back to the stage and locks it down again.
30 seconds later the waitress is up in the balcony and she and the light guy are doing coke. All I could think was that my parents were already uncertain about their 16 year old’s
after schoollate night job. There was no way I was going to tell them about *that*.Napoleon
@different-church-lady:
He drummed on other stuff, not just when Ringo quit the band during the White Album sessions.
I am not slagging on Ringo, but to say he is the most technically talented is just not supportable. He sure was good enough for what the Beatles needed though, and there is a reason they picked him at the last second to replace Pete Best when they finally had a shot at the big time.
McCartney is talented enough that he could do everything related to the first solo album he put out short of mastering the record itself and have it go to number one and have 3 very good songs on it.
Napoleon
@Napoleon:
. . . and a PS, they were very familiar with what he could do from having watched him for years. He was not someone they got through an ad or a friend of a friend, and he arguably was drumming with a band perceived as better at the time he jumped to the Beatles.
SatanicPanic
@Alexandra: Both guitar players (Mick Jones and Steve Jones) were both totally copying Johnny Thunders. Mick Jones even bought the same guitar and tried to dress like him.
kindness
@Paul in KY: Yea I loved Zep too. A bunch of people didn’t like LedZep III but I did. The acoustic in it I guess. One of the things I liked so much about Zep was the way they melded folk/traditional with hard edged rock. Well that and the way they played the blues. I was surprised that when I read Bill Graham’s Bio that Bill said he never understood what anyone saw in Zeppelin. Yea I know he had issues with them but not getting what drove us to loving the shit….that I don’t understand.
My 80’s dissing. I wasn’t hating it but the era was weak. And that whole MTV thing where somehow Adam Ant et al was relevent….No. No they weren’t. My superstars were succumbing to their hedonism/drugs and it showed. Yea there were a few lights but I zoned out in the 80s. Those where my 200+ Dead show years. Punk was OK but better as an outside influence than raw. Thank God it brought in the Grunge Era though. Saved rock again for me.
Jewish Steel
@MikeJ: A helluva drug, or so I hear.
Everyone I knew who got into that turned into such a raging asshole, I was never tempted. Not to mention a life of poverty preclude any expensive habits.
Trollhattan
@Mike E:
The few drummers I’ve known have all respected his work a good deal. He’s kind of the anti-Ginger Baker.
Southern Beale
Grand Ole Ratfuckers.
Because Republicans can’t win without cheating.
Mike E
@Napoleon: And, truth be told, Paul gets a bad rep (undeservedly IMO) for being pushy and abrasive, and people migrate toward earthier (warmer?) members of the band because of this. I’m a George man myself, but,honestly, Paul is the genius of the group, THE driving force behind The Beatles mastery of pop.
raven
@rikyrah: You are really getting on my nerves with this posting shit and I don’t give a fuck who likes it.
Jewish Steel
@Mike E: Spot on.
SatanicPanic
Also, ditto what everyone says about the 80s- yikes, turn down the treble 80s producers!
different-church-lady
@Napoleon: My objection was only in regard to the idea that McCartney was the better drummer, and the implication that was the reason he sat behind the kit on Beatles tunes.
The only other Beatles instance I can remember when McCartney drummed was “The Ballad of John and Yoko”, and that was also a case of Ringo not being in the studio that day.
Part of my amateur theory of why Ringo got a bad rap was because of McCartney’s domineering in the studio. Both Ringo and Harrison got pushed around trying to please McCartney’s musical ideas and lost themselves in the process. Harrison didn’t begin to blossom until he started to push back around the time of the White Album (and having Clapton’s belief in his talents probably helped quite a lot too).
I think Ringo summed it up rather nicely when he said, (paraphrase from memory), “I was in a band with three other drummers, but each could only play in one style.”
Jewish Steel
@raven: What is its purpose? It’s not like the commenters don’t visit the same set of sites and are going to miss something.
Another Holocene Human
@pamelabrown53: LEWIS, well except for the end, it’s a little like the end of ST: TNG
raven
@Alexandra: Neither one of you could tell shit from shinola.
Paul in KY
@SatanicPanic: Gotta consider the dates when they were released (1965 – 66). Still squaresville over here for the most part.
Another Holocene Human
@rikyrah: this is true, many small farmers refuse to buy crop insurance even w subsidy
also, in fruit industry the program is used to bust fruit pickers’ unions
raven
@Jewish Steel: It’s fucking constant. Someone got all defensive and said whoever this person is adds all kinds of great comments. If you can’t tell the fucking comments from the cut and paste what’s the point?
Paul in KY
@Napoleon: He was certainly a better drummer than Best, but the reason they replaced Best was that alot of reporters thought the band was run by Best & he was also a handsome devil who was getting more than his fair share (so they thought) of the women.
different-church-lady
@Napoleon:
I saw these pictures a few years ago, and the thing that struck me is how happy Ringo looks on stage with The Hurricanes. He’d never look that happy with playing with the Beatles.
(There’s also lots of great bootleg stuff on that site, but you didn’t hear that from me…)
Napoleon
@Mike E:
I 100% agree with that.
I could write a really long piece on all the reasons I think that taken together put the Beatles in the cultural position they are, but if you just focus on a slice of what they were musically (and the musical part being just of the overall reasons), that slice being the individual talents of the 4, and Paul contributed the most, but no way they are as huge as they are without John, and I would argue George as well.
Mike E
@different-church-lady: Check Ringo’s mug at the end of Anthology I when he rejoins the group in Australia after an illness…You Can’t Do That is kinda one of their throwaways IMO, but it’s like the sun rising on stage there and they rock the shit out of it!
Napoleon
@different-church-lady:
Plus he was a late add to the group after they got their record contract. That makes it really easy to argue “they didn’t need him”.
For what it is worth the other 3, after the break up, would practically crawl through broken glass to defend him, his worth to the band and the equality of his contribution. McCartney still does to this day.
Mike E
@Napoleon: And, to be totally honest about that, Ringo could care less. Comfy in his own drum skins, he is.
Napoleon
@Paul in KY:
Best supposedly sucked as a drummer. Both he and Sutcliffe were bodies that filled holes in their line up with the other 3 (John, Paul and George) who were committed to being good on their instruments.
different-church-lady
@Mike E: I think Paul has his rep both deservedly and not. It’s a classic case of a brilliant artist having too many good ideas that make collaboration difficult.
The other contributing factor was Lennon’s addiction problems. Within the group dynamic, George and Ringo would always be the “junior” members. The competition between Lennon and McCartney was an engine of the group in the early and mid period. Only Lennon had enough psychological capital to stand up to McCartney. When Lennon’s contribution and leadership (and, to a certain extent, talent) went into recession during his forays into various drugs, McCartney was essentially unchecked. This was good for musical output, but bad for esprit de corps. He was the only one of the four in a position to give shape and focus, but the fact that he was in that position wasn’t for the best reasons. He was pushy, but there was a genuine need for his vision at the same time.
Jebediah, RBG
@different-church-lady:
That’s some fine meta-geezering!
rikyrah
-☺@keithboykin
The cost to attend Bill O’Reilly’s alma mater is $48,390. A full-time minimum wage worker only earns $15,080/year. pic.twitter.com/XuhOAsAnqq
different-church-lady
@rikyrah: If a poor person wants to attend that school they just have to work harder and get a better education so they can afford it!
/wingnut_circular_logic
Calouste
@Alexandra:
Are we supposed to pay attention to what someone says who thinks Cream is American?
PGE
@pete: Ha. I thought almost exactly the same thing when I read that: the most amazing string of 3 albums, by any artist, is Bringing it All Back Home, Highway 61, and Blond on Blond. And all 3 released between March 65 and May 66. What an amazing 14 months of creative output. It’s hard to imagine it ever being matched.
Tommy
@rikyrah: I went to a really good school. I don’t think I am that old. Cost me $4,750/year. That was what it cost to attend an IL state school in 1988.
Jebediah, RBG
@MikeJ:
Good golly, I hate the fuck out of the over-use of compression. Let’s have a little air, please!
tybee
@Alexandra:
as was indicated previously, albeit a bit crudely, you’re wrong. repeatedly.
we get it that you don’t like them. however, most of the universe disagrees with your assessment.
Wally Ballou
@MikeJ:
“The Beatles are not merely awful, I would consider it sacrilegious to say anything less than that they are so unbelievably horrible, so appallingly unmusical, so dogmatically insensitive to the magic of the art, that they qualify as crowned heads of antimusic, even as the imposter popes went down in history as ‘anti-popes’.”
– William F. Buckley, Jr.
Wally Ballou
@PGE: I would actually throw “Another Side…” in there, too. Maybe not as exciting as the electric stuff, but just a brilliant collection of songs.
Origuy
@goblue72: I’m in Mike Honda’s district. Beside the non-Indian Asian community, the Hispanic community is likely to go for him. He speaks fluent Spanish. The Republican, Dr Vanila Singh, is a fairly young woman with some heavy financial backing herself.
mainmata
Take away line of the day: Mary Tennant, Secretary of State of WVA, said that because of the contradictory information about the spill water safety, some mothers are melting snow to bathe their children. Good for her!
Bonnie
Men were so handsome then. That long hair, those nice neat, clean suits on any man improved his appearance that could just take your breath away. I miss seeing men with hair and dressed cleanly, neatly so that you can tell they are men and that they have legs–some even long legs. Also, regarding the Beatles, each album that came out was always more innovative than the previous. Never had seen that before. Probably hasn’t happened since.
DougJ
@Alexandra:
Yeah, I like the Beatles a lot but also feel they’re overrated.
They just don’t have any songs that I’ve listened to a million times the way I have with lots of Stones or Al Green or Michael Jackson or Clash songs. Maybe I’m a philistine.
different-church-lady
@DougJ: It’s perfectly legitimate to feel that The Beatles are overrated.
It’s quite another thing to write 38 pounds of patent horse shit in an absurd attempt to justify that feeling.
Kay S
@different-church-lady: @different-church-lady:
I am a baseline (late 1963, American) Beatlemaniac, and yours is a great description of Paul’s position. What I’ve usually said is, “Paul was kind of a pill.” Another group dynamic at work was, once a person was identified as the one who’d do the dirty work, the others would slag off. The boys let Brian figure out how to can Pete Best, and later, Paul became de facto manager, for good and for ill.
dopey-o
@David in NY: the dreck that was 1962:
i was trying to explain to my young spouse how the airwaves were filled with saccharine dreck and commercial ‘folk music’ (Kingston Trio, New Christie Minstrels, Peter Paul & Mary) and suddenly bright energetic music with strange chord changes showed up in 1963. Exciting, jarring, electric.
and these guys just kept getting better and better, until they broke up. which happened sometime toward the end of 1967 and “Sgt. Pepper.” Witness the White Album. Four random guys who for some inexplicable reason, put all their songs on 2 disks tucked into a featureless white cardboard sleeve. Hard to imagine the trackless wasteland of the White Album was the work of the same artists who recorded Rubber Soul, Revolver and Sgt. Pepper.
Magical Mystery Tour, Abbey Road, Let It Be, all that stuff was just the janitor sweeping up the confetti and glitter of a great party that went on a little too long.
They really should have left the building at the end of A Day In The Life. That would have been the perfect disappearing act. The sound of a mind exploding, and the Beatles shimmer away…..
Paul in KY
@Napoleon: Best was a bit older & had drummed in several bands. The reporters knew him & kept going to him for quotes & info on what the band was going to do, etc. when he had no clue & was low man on the totem pole.
Cervantes
@pacem appellant:
Khanna went to school at Chicago and worked on Obama’s first (i.e., state Senate) campaign back in the ’90s. More recently, he’s worked for Obama in DC. There’s a reason Jeremy Bird (OfA field director) is on his campaign team, and it’s not because he’s “Marissa Mayer’s pet.”
I’m not saying you should support him over Honda — but you should at least know who he is if you’re working against him.