The car choices are narrowing down. I think I have one I am going to get next week- a 2004 Outback Legacy with only 120k miles for only $5995, and I hope I can get that down a bit since I will be paying in cash, not to mention I hope to get a little bit from the salvage yard for the current Subie, whose engine I just rebuilt and still has a lot of good salvageable parts. If I can get out of this with a decent car like that, for only 5k+, I consider that a win. I spent 4k on the last car, and it was a 1997 that gave me a solid 6 years, so now I am getting a car a year younger, respectively from when I buy it, with less mileage, and for only 1k more, which given inflation and everything, seems reasonable.
I really did think about getting a new car or a car that just became available off lease, and I looked at a wide variety of cars, and was close to really getting serious with a Honda CR-V, but it just boils down to a couple of things:
1.) I don’t give a shit about cars and am under no illusion that a fancy car will change the quality of my life or sex life
2.) When it comes to cars for me, I am cheap as hell and really don’t give a shit.
3.) I like my cars to be pre-tested by other owners, much like my dogs and cats. Everything is easier if you have a pre-beaten model.
4.) When it comes to cars for me, I am cheap as hell and really don’t give a shit.
5.) I really liked the way my old car rode, and I want another one like it.
6.) When it comes to cars for me, I am cheap as hell and really don’t give a shit.
7.) No matter how much I try, I will always be wed to that with which I am familiar. I’m a dance with the girl who brung you kind of guy, I planned to have Ruby for another ten years, but now she is gone, but I can get something a lot like her for a good price, so I will.
8.) No poofters, Bruce.
If I don’t get this one I will find one just like it. Decision and car search over. Much like, I bet, many of you thought it would, because if I am one thing, it is consistent.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Gary Numan Cars
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Beastie Boys Girls
Suzanne
Get a CR-V.
Ash Can
9.) Splunge.
Villago Delenda Est
Still think you should sell your soul (but not Steve’s, Rosie’s, or even Lily’s) for a Maserati, just because of the idiotic commercial during the Seahawk Bowl.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Pink Floyd Dogs
Alison
120,000 miles sounds like a lot, though…I know Subarus last a long time but eek. Hope the owner took good care of it.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Electric Light Orchestra Don’t Bring Me Down
I think that about covers it.
Denny
I thought I was detecting an oblique “Australian Philosophy Department Sketch” reference and #8 confirmed that.
http://youtu.be/hPFClJGqjBQ
John Cole
@Alison: My 97 Subie had 141k miles when I got it.
Fort Geek
I’m the same way about my ’81 Citation. My previous car was an ’83 Citation 4-door. I went everywhere with that little car, but finally had to let her go because of rust. Within months of standing and watching that one get towed away, I was standing and watching the ’81 get towed in, shipped 500 miles on a trailer after buying the car sight unseen. $1500. Looked like hell, but had her running and roadworthy for another $500.
In a lot of ways, the ’81 is just like the ’83 (same controls, same engine sounds, same turn signal sound), but the road noises are different (squeaks, creaks, etc.). But she’s nicely broken in and fun to drive, just like her “little sister.” The broken-in and comfortable thing’s pretty important.
Alison
@John Cole: Yeah, I guess they do have a long life.
Omnes Omnibus
“There is no rule six.”
I take that you don’t really take pleasure from driving; it is something you do to get from place to place. Some people take pleasure in the techniques and skills of the activity; I am one of those – cornering lines, braking points, and shit like that matter to some.. If you are a utilitarian driver, do not ever take any advice about cars from the pleasure drivers. I am one of those people. That being said 120K is a lot of miles; check the carfax maintenance records.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@John Cole:
The secret in keeping them running is in recognizing when your timing belt’s going. And not getting run off the road into Old MacDonald’s back forty.
John Cole
@Alison: Also too, because I can not resist myself, sometimes the best rides are the older models.
Thor Heyerdahl
Here’s the Bruce’s skit for everyone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f_p0CgPeyA
Beaten to it by Denny
Omnes Omnibus
@Villago Delenda Est: Not that Maser, this one. If one is going to sell one’s soul, one should pick the right car.
seaboogie
@John Cole: That’s what I’ll be telling the fellas, when I’m ready for a test drive…although on this site I’m almost a youngster.
max
a 2004 Outback Legacy with only 120k miles for only $5995, and I hope I can get that down a bit since I will be paying in cash
Probably get it to 5500$, if they really want to ditch it. Probably worth bargaining to pay for the timing change replacement. (Due in some K miles.)
If I can get out of this with decent car like that, for only 5k+, I consider that a win.
Sounds like a good deal – assuming the interior is in good shape.
Much like, I bet, many of you thought it would, because if I am one thing, it is consistent.
Sounds sensible… which is kind of surprise of late.
1.) I don’t give a shit about cars and am under no illusion that a fancy car will change the quality of my life or sex life
In half a decade or so, you can get one of these used! (It’s a Nissan Juke Nismo)
max
[‘I should get one. In black, of course.‘]
Violet
@John Cole: Subarus are great. I hope you get the car and it’s all settled and easy.
Alison
@John Cole: LOL :P
SatanicPanic
I cosign all of this and add- driving sucks and is nothing but a chore. I consider a day not getting into a car a good day.
Yatsuno
@John Cole: My 99 Alero drove like a dream until the day I got the 2011 Malibu. Worst problem so far I’ve had with it is a light going out. But I need all-season tires for it at some point.
Jerzy Russian
I love my new CRV. I like to get my cars new, then run them into the ground. I think it will take me 15 years to run the CRV into the ground.
NotMax
Lay in a supply of cookies and ciggies so the frat boy(s) won’t be tempted to brave the roads.
Just sayin’.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: I just pay the things. I don’t get too many. I have a good idea of the kind of places in which cops lurk.
For me, the big thing is that if I win the lottery, I will probably buy a Jag F-type coupe. I don’t really care if it impresses anyone else, driving it will make me happy. I’d also keep the old Saab because it is wonderful.
BethanyAnne
Cars are for transportation, bikes are for fun. I’ve been hearing a used Honda Valkyrie whispering in the back of my head recently. I think this spring I may just have to pull the trigger and get one.
Redshift
Okay, so X years in the future when you’re stressing about car buying, you’re going to remember “I like this car and want another like it,” and skip the freakout, right?
Mnemosyne
Still getting used to the Impreza after 15 years with my RAV-4, but I like it so far. I really have to figure out how to use all of the bells and whistles on it. It’s definitely groovy to have Bluetooth so I don’t get another cell phone ticket.
Omnes Omnibus
@BethanyAnne: You have never made a car dance. If you do it right, it is like skiing can be. Almost transcendent.
ukko
I moved from an ’87 BMW 325is to an 2002 BMW M5 last year as part of an effort to be responsible while still having a fun car. By every measure it is better, but I still miss the older one. It can be more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
BethanyAnne
Or maybe a Suzuki Burgman (ginormous scooter) with a Starfleet Academy bumper sticker :)
BethanyAnne
@Omnes Omnibus: I spent 10 years in the SF bay area. About year 3 I sold my car and went to a bike full time. The weather here in Houston sucks so hard that I wouldn’t want to do that here, but I miss my bike so much.
Omnes Omnibus
@ukko: Moving from a 3-series of any age to a 5-series means that you stepped up in size and weight and the car won’t dance the same way. My old VW GTI was insanely fun. I was physically connected to every move it made – including the whole thing where the sunroof leaked a bit and dumped cold water on the passenger during any left turn – I would say “Hey, you have a hood on the jacket, maybe you should just sort of put it over your head now.” But damn, that car was fun to drive.
Omnes Omnibus
@BethanyAnne: I bike as often as I can. It is my favorite means of exercise. That being said, fast driving is a skill and exercising it is a pleasure,
Bruce Webb
” because if I am one thing, it is consistent.”
OMG. I am only a lurker but just tell me regulars couldn’t have a field day with:
“I am John Cole and if I am one thing it is _________”
Are there enough nouns and adjectives? I am a coward so I will offer a ‘pet enabler’. But I suspect you all can do better.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: After using the bluetooth on my wife’s Elantra, I got a new radio for my car with bluetooth(the old radio dated from the 1st Clinton administration and had seen better days).
Omnes Omnibus
It is so late that someone needs to post some music. I’ll do it. Here you go.
MattR
@Omnes Omnibus:
I could take pleasure in driving, but I don’t think I can do it in moderation and worry that it will eventually get me killed. So I avoid the temptation to drive too fast by owning small, low horsepower cars, like my current Hyundai Elantra.
I am disappointed that we screwed up the timing on our last trip to Vegas and did the big night out drinking before we could get to the road track where you can drive Ferrari’s and the like. That is really not an activity you want to do hungover, but it sounds like the perfect way to enjoy all that driving offers while minimizing the risk
BethanyAnne
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m not much for the video, but I love this song. Eurydice by Sleepthief.
Pete Mack
120K miles is a hell of a lot for a $6K car. I can’t see paying more than $1000. You are pretty much guaranteed a lot of maintenance costs up front.
Omnes Omnibus
@MattR: Oddly, this fits with a conversation for a night or so ago. I won’t ride one of the insanely fast motorcycles that are out there. I would inevitably try to see just how fast I could go and then die. Realistically, my 9-3 moves as fast as my skills and reaction time allow. I am happy with it.
BruceFromOhio
I heard that when it comes to cars for you, you are cheap as hell and really don’t give a shit.
I’d tell you to walk, but there’s ice everywhere and it’d prolly kill ya to do it. Bet you give a shit then.
BethanyAnne
@Omnes Omnibus: I’ve had a bike faster than my brain, an old Magna V65. It was fun, but it did almost kill me a couple of times. Plus, it was pretty ragged out. A nice mid-2000’s Valkyrie has almost as much power, but it delivers it really differently. More freight train than whizzybomb. Neither of them are actually on the high end of what is available now, but plenty of excitement for me.
Chris T.
@Omnes Omnibus: Nah, I like this car instead.
(It’s not actually a hot rod, it’s really a GT; top speed 125 mph, 95 in electric-only mode. Very comfy, drives wonderfully. Though the software needs work and any warranty issues are, well, quite a problem now… :-) )
Omnes Omnibus
@BethanyAnne: Yeah, the bike I want to get is a Bonneville T100. Fast enough for fun, but it won’t let me kill myself. (But wouldn’t that Ducati Monster be a blast until i die?)
@Chris T.: Jag F-type S coupe for me please.
Chris T.
@Omnes Omnibus: But the Jag has no electric drive!
(The Karma is also much nicer interior-wise than the Tesla S, and is much better looking, but the drive system is not as good. Once the supercharger network is sufficiently wide-spread I’d probably be better off with the S … but I still don’t like it as much.)
BethanyAnne
@Omnes Omnibus: Those are really pretty bikes, and 90 horsepower is a fine amount. I spent the first 5 years I rode on a Virago 750 that made 40 hp on a good day, lol.
John Cole
@Pete Mack:
LOLWUT? Have you ever even seen or been in a Subaru? 120k for a Subaru is like 25 in human years. Unless you roll the damned thing and never change the oil, a Subaru with 120k miles is like any other car with 30k miles.
BethanyAnne
What I really want is another bimmercycle, but I just can’t talk myself into paying those maintenance bills again.
Steeplejack
For Cole: NRBQ, “Ridin’ in My Car.”
Omnes Omnibus
@John Cole: Buy the Subie and quit your bitchin’. If it is what you want, buy it. Car choices are entirely personal.
Luna Sea
@John Cole: I own a 2002 Subaru Forester with 24,000 miles on it. Yup, and bought it new.
KG
I agree with everything Omnes and Bethany have said in this thread, even the contradictory parts. I should probably get around to getting my motorcycle license, but then I’ll be tempted to get a bike and it’ll be all over…
2liberal
@Pete Mack:
you must have matured during the ’70s. I paid $5000 for a 10 year old Saturn SL w/ 112K – they stopped making those in 2002. Those old cars move quickly if they are in decent shape.
BethanyAnne
@KG: Doo Eeet. Bikes are fabulous. :)
Steeplejack
@BethanyAnne:
Just wanted to say after reading the thread the other night that I, too, have a Kia Rondo. It’s an ’09; I got it two years ago. Small on the outside, big on the inside, and the seat is just the right height. Love it.
Went to Carmax to look at a Honda Element and just happened to see the Rondo. I liked the Element, but the Rondo was newer, had a lot fewer miles and cost a lot less. The Element would have been fine, but the Rondo turned out to be a great buy for me.
Ruckus
@BethanyAnne:
Rode a V65 maggot when they first came out. At about 70 on the freeway someone changed lanes on me and I had to stop quickly. Applied the brake and the front wheel locked but the bike didn’t waver. Or stop. Or even slow down much. Scariest thing I ever rode and I have bike racing trophies.
@Omnes Omnibus:
One thing I’ve learned over the years is that the throttle works both ways. Not always an easy lesson for some to learn. It took me decades to really learn it and I still ride a 1000 sportbike. And I’m on SS so not the youngest rider around.
max
@2liberal: you must have matured during the ’70s. I paid $5000 for a 10 year old Saturn SL w/ 112K – they stopped making those in 2002. Those old cars move quickly if they are in decent shape.
Even if you matured in the 70’s, it really depended on the car. A Gremlin with 120k miles was probably getting close to worn out from front to back. (Same with a late 70’s Honda.) On more expensive cars the main issues were crapped out pollution controls. (Fixable, but all too frequently no one knew how.)
80’s Chrysler’s – YEESH. Early to mid-80’s anything and Japanese sub/compacts wore out pretty fast.
Post-1990, not so much… and it depends on the car (and how the owners treated it). (Guy wanted to sell me a late 1980’s Ford 4×4 truck for 2500$. Oy. That truck had been used rather extensively. Hilariously, the interior & motor was fine. But decades of mud had done a number on the underbody.)
max
[‘Of course, if you’re the type to fly into a rage if Twitter is down for an hour or something, then yeah, 120k is elderly. Decrepit even.’]
MorningtonCrescent
The former Oakland Athletics radio announcer Bill King drove beaters and said that there’s no sense in paying more than $250 for a car.
BethanyAnne
@Steeplejack: I really like mine. I went to the lot to look at PT Cruisers, and didn’t like them. The Rondo was sitting there next to them and it fit just right.
@Ruckus: by the time I got mine it had been thrashed to hell. I went from it to the only new bike I’ve ever owned, a 2000 R12C Montana. Slow but comfy and pretty. I don’t think I want below 80 hp again, though. The other bike I really get tempted by is a Connie. Not the new ones, the old standard touring ones.
Roxy
I see a theme running through your reasons. I love the cheap and shit
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
The U.S. is dominating this game but the ref is also refusing to call anything on them. Monique Lamoureux should have made three trips to the box already.
MC Simon Milligan
Don’t forget to keep an eye out for Saab 9-2x’s. They’re Impreza wagons with Saab badges and interiors. They even made an Aero version that was a rebadged WRX.
Amir Khalid
Of course you’ll to have to decide on a name for the new arrival and announce it to everyone here.
Glocksman
@max: Indeed.
Back in the early 90’s I drove a 78 Olds Delta 88 with an Oldsmobile 350 (not the more common Chevy) engine that I paid $500 for.
The odometer on it said 52000 miles, but the owner told me it had flipped twice.
In the 4 years I owned the car, I replaced the battery, hoses, blower motor, alternator, and the timing chain/gears.
The timing chain and gears were the only thing I didn’t do myself, and the cars were so common that a rebuilt alternator was only $30.
When I sold it, it still ran strong.
The only annoying thing was that the A/C didn’t work.
On the other hand, the 88 Bonneville I bought to replace it was a piece of junk that seemed to have an automatic self destruct mechanism set to go off at 100k miles.
Ditto for my 92 Olds Cutlass Ciera S.
The last 2 cars soured me on GM, so my current car is an 08 Kia Spectra EX that I bought in late 2009.
The only problem I’ve had out of it so far is that the door latch cable broke soon after the 5 year factory warranty expired, so I have to roll down the window to open the door.
Glocksman
@BethanyAnne:
A couple I work with ride scooters to work during the warm season.
He has a Burgman 650 and she has some Italian scooter with 2 wheels on the front.
I thought about buying one myself but the idea of paying $7000+ for it just blows my mind.
gnomedad
Mind if we call you “Bruce” to keep it clear?
Death Panel Truck
Unless you know for an absolute fact that the timing belt in the 2004 Outback has been replaced, you are asking for trouble. They usually go at about 105K. If the belt goes, the valves hit the pistons and you’ve pretty much got a destroyed engine.
But hey, go for it. What do I care? Not my car. I have a 2010 Forrester without the timing belt problem.
Death Panel Truck
Like you say, you’re cheap as hell and you don’t give a shit. Tell yourself that while you’re replacing the engine in the 2004 Outback you’re planning on buying. Cheap as hell. Don’t give a shit. Cheap as hell. Don’t give a shit.
Cheap as hell. Don’t give a shit.
But you will care.
ElyLake
Is it worth considering a newer car for the safety features? I’m guessing a new car of almost any flavor would have better safety equipment and crash-protection than a 10yo model would. Check out this video from the IIHS where the 2014 Subaru Forester beat the pack of 13 small SUVs.
http://youtu.be/wmCZZ_Ef3Js
It’s startling to me how far auto-safety has come in my lifetime. If you think they just don’t make cars like they used to, this video of a 1959 Chevy Bel-Air vs. a 2009 Chevy Malibu will prove you’re right:
http://youtu.be/fPF4fBGNK0U
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
@Alison:
Meh. I flew to seattle this summer and bought one with 180,000 and drove it back to Minnesota. Of course, it did end up needing some work, but it’s a very solid car.
Concerned Citizen
New cars have bluetooth. If you have an android or IOS device you can listen to podcasts.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
And yes, one of the first things i did was replace the timing belt, water pump, thermostat, and cam and crank seals (leaking oil)
JMG
John, I believe you would be happier long-term with the Honda CRV. My wife and I got a 2013 model in July, and it’s a really nice car. I prefer buying a new car every 10 years or so (that’s how long we’ve had our second car, a 2004 Toyota Corolla) and getting to enjoy the first relatively trouble free half of its allotted mileage. In the long run, it’s cheaper to buy one new one every 10 years than two used ones every six.
RSA
@Omnes Omnibus:
I have fond memories of a 1999 Miata I sold last year. I’m just an average driver, so the comparative lack of power didn’t bother me. I liked the handling and the responsiveness on curvy back roads. Very engaging, that car.
Nicole
I haven’t owned a car since I was 18, when I moved to NYC (as a teen, I owned a 78 Caprice Classic that spent more time in the shop than out of it). This thread makes me grateful. And not in the “meh meh I’m so superior I don’t even OWN a television” way but in the, “Just reading about what goes in to acquiring and maintaining a car gives me incredible anxiety.” I had enough trouble adopting a dog and that was considerably less expensive.
My favorite car my parents owned, purely for the lolz, was a little two-door sports car (I don’t remember what it was; I was about 8 when my dad got it) that my dad bought in a last burst of youth. It was an utter lemon, the most lemon-y part being that both doors stopped staying shut, and my father’s solution was to tie a rope to each door and hold the ropes taut while he drove. But then when he went to shift gears the ropes would go slack and the doors would fly open.
Mobile Grumpy Code Monkey
Never have had luck with used vehicles; they always developed expensive problems way too early. First new vehicle I ever bought was a ’96 Ford Ranger; 18 years and 201K miles later, we’re getting ready to trade it in, not because it’s dead (although it could use several thousand dollars’ worth of maintenance) but because we need a second dog-friendly vehicle.
Had a Mazda Protege 5 that made it 10 years and just over 200K miles (long commutes); traded that one in on a new Mazda 3 a couple of years ago, hope to squeeze at least that many miles out of it.
chopper
You should get the same model and year (or close to it) as you used to have. That way you can tow the wreck back to your yard and put it up on blocks. You’ll have all the parts you need! Plus, it’s West Virginia.
Bill
@Death Panel Truck: The service interval for the timing belt on the 2.5 SOHC is 105k. The belts do not “go” around 105 unless there’s a problem, usually oil leaks inside the timing cover, which is not common. The belts, when removed, are typically indistinguishable from the new belt, save that the lettering on the new belt is crisp. I have seen maybe one 2.5 SOHC with a broken belt, and I’ve seen plenty that have missed the service interval by many miles.
With that said, John, while your mechanic has the car in the air to check the rear subframe and rocker panels for rust, it will take him less than five minutes to remove the inspection cover for the timing belt, and have a look. If the belt is original, deduct the cost of replacement from the price of the car. Have a new water pump installed when the belt is replaced, it’s under the timing cover.
John, you’ll need to know about the head gaskets. One (usually the passenger side) or both may be leaking (usually coolant). Have the mechanic look in the coolant overflow bottle under the hood for evidence of hydrocarbons- odor and residue. If the seller says that the gaskets have been done, ask for the paperwork. The dealers can’t be trusted to do the job properly under warranty- they do a slapdash job and the issue reoccurs. Read up on this- there’s a place in Seattle that has a ton of info on the web, and they’re the experts.
Best case for you would be a car with head gaskets starting to leak; adjust price accordingly, drive until the issue needs attention, have the timing belt, water pump and heads all done together, and then apply a further 200k to the car. Email me if you have questions.
RSA
@Nicole:
That is hilarious.
J R in WV
John,
The hard part is over. Now just keep it out of the field!
I know, I know, the friend put it into the field, but where I’m going is to encourage you to get studded snow tires before next winter rolls around, or right away if you get the car on the road immediately.
An awd car with studded snow tires is almost safe on black ice, the most dreaded driving condition possible excepting really deep snow.
Good luck with the Subaru, everybody I know with one loves them. I got stuck on VWs back in the late 70s, have burned through many Jettas since.
daniel quinn
How much do you want for your old Subie?I live in WV too,so maybe we can do a deal.
mclaren
I’m crushed with disappointment that you didn’t choose the Messerschmitt KR201.
Glocksman
@ElyLake:
The interior shot from the 59 of the steering column popping out like a giant spear is one of the reasons why driving any car made before 1968* is taking your life into your own hands.
As for the rep of ‘Detroit Steel’ being tougher than new cars, it probably results from incidents like the one below.
A friend of mine got rear ended years ago in a 1974 Chevy Nova.
The girl who ran into him was driving a Honda CRX.
The damage to his car was the bumper being bent downwards by about 20 degrees.
The Honda was totaled out, with the engine coming to rest under the passenger compartment.
My guess is the reason why there was so little damage to Nova wasn’t because it was ‘Detroit Steel’, but because the Honda’s bumper went under his, and the Nova’s bumper crushed the front end of the CRX.
The Honda driver walked away with only minor cuts despite the car looking like it had gone 12 rounds with the Hulk.
If they’d met bumper to bumper I’d bet money the Nova would have been much more heavily damaged than it was.
*In 1968 the US started requiring all cars sold in the US to have collapsible steering columns.
There were cars before 1968 that featured collapsible columns, but they aren’t very common.
John Cole
@J R in WV: Not sure how studded snow tires would have mattered, since the roads were clear and he wrecked it because he was driven off the road by a natural gas fracking convoy.
pkdz
@Fort Geek: Citation? Are you my father-in-law? At one time he had four Chevy Citations at one time. Three were drivable and one was for parts.