“The House is likely to vote Wednesday on a plan to extend the government’s borrowing authority into 2015 in exchange for reversing a cut to the pensions of working-age military veterans that Congress approved just two months ago to try to trim the budget deficit,” the New York Times reports.
“The plan, presented to House Republicans on Monday evening by their leaders, represents a dramatic reversal for the House after three years of using the debt ceiling to extract major spending cuts and conservative policy changes. In this instance, the debt ceiling deadline — looming at the end of this month — will be used to reverse the only difficult spending cut included in a budget and deficit-reduction deal reached in December.”
I guess this “reversal” is “dramatic”, if you consider watching a fish flail around in the bottom of a boat after it is caught as the height of drama. For those of us who aren’t paid to care about the random blundering of the House Republican “Leadership”, it’s just dull and stupid, never mind pointless. The Democrats are so sick of the debt ceiling shenanigans that even that spineless crew probably won’t vote for an increase that isn’t clean. And there are about 60 numbskulls in the House Republican Caucus who won’t vote for an increase no matter what sugar you put in their bowl. Until one of those two facts changes, this story isn’t changing.
When your kid isn’t toilet trained, it’s not news when they shit their pants. Yet every time the House leadership grunts out a new stillborn turd of a “compromise” on the debt ceiling, it launches a fresh new round of reporting. The debt ceiling will be increased at the last possible moment by a bi-partisan vote that violates the Hastert suggestion, and then we’ll be done until the next time around. We don’t need to pull this plant out of its pot every week to check to see if the roots are growing.
Update: As many of you are pointing out in the comments, the Republicans just announced that they’ll bring a clean bill to the floor tomorrow. So the “dramatic” bill mentioned in this story didn’t even live for a day.
Belafon
Dramatic fish flopping worked for Faith No More.
I’m pretty sure the Democrats will vote for this. Imagine in November “Democrats voted against increasing veterans pensions.”
schrodinger's cat
Are you sure that Ted Cruz and the Crazy Caucus is not going to throw a last minute tantrum?
aimai
I love you for this post.
Suffern ACE
Was that really the only difficult cut last December?
Comrade Jake
If you can manage to make your way through the whole thing (and unfortunately the punchline is at the end), read Eric Son of Eric’s latest diatribe over at Redstate.
Or you can just take my word for it that the wingnuts are going native.
OzarkHillbilly
@Suffern ACE: Cutting food stamps is no harder than increasing subsidies for rich farmers so, yeah.
Corner Stone
Wow. The only difficult cut, eh?
Chris
But, but, this is important news, it proves how Reasonable all these Republicans are! Now it’s up to the Democrats to meet them halfway, by proposing cuts to pensions AND cuts to Medicare…
/VSP
Corner Stone
However, it is amusing to see this is the item they have tried to settle on as the “we have to get something” out of this. What nonsense.
Suffern ACE
@Chris: No. 1/2 way is changing foodstamps to a $5 per month coupon off Cheerios and allowing every company to throw whatever they want into your town’s water supply.
Comrade Jake
NOT SO FAST!!!
LOL. The ship of fools continues to sail onwards!
Corner Stone
It’s also amusing that when the D’s do not agree to this nonsense offer, the R’s will demagogue the fudge out of it as the “D’s hate teh troops!” when they were the fools who demanded the cut in the first place.
kindness
I hope Democrats hold out for a clean bill. Mind you, I’m not against reversing the cuts to our military personnel. I just think it should be done in context of a broader bill which addresses several areas of cuts.
Mudge
It is, as usual, a trap. If Democrats vote for it,they will be accused (correctly) of voting for an unclean debt ceiling bill when something they support is attached. This opens the door to future blackmail. If they vote against, they will be accused of hating veterans. Obviously voting no and submitting a separate bill for veterans pensions is the only sensible course, but it will never satisfy the pundits who love the “Democrats Hate Veterans”/”Democrats Are Hypocrits” memes.
Comrade Jake
They’ve ditched this plan. Now the only question is if they can even get 18 Republicans to vote for a clean debt limit increase.
geg6
It will be a clean bill, you watch. All the Villagers who I’ve read on this last night and this morning seem to agree on that point. Boehner is flailing, the Teabaggers are still in charge and all that Obama and the Dems have to do is stand pat and watch it all explode when Boehner once again tosses Denny Hastert’s pet rule aside.
Between this and Schumer’s trolling them on immigration, I’m starting to think the midterms might not be as bad for our side as we fear.
raven
You get 130 lb tuna on the deck I guarantee it’s exciting.
Suffern ACE
But if we have pensions for working age veterans, they won’t work as hard and we’ve just had a two week flip out by http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2014/02/cbo_finds_obama.php by the right over the Democratic hatred for dignity of work. Shouldn’t our veterans be leading the way showing us how committeed they are to work?
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Comrade Jake:
Are we reasonably sure that all of the Democrats will vote for a clean bill? If not then a few more Republican votes will be needed.
Hill Dweller
@Comrade Jake:
It won’t matter. Republicans are so obviously morally and intellectually bankrupt, but the ignorant, self-destructive electorate will likely give them control of congress in November.
gene108
@Comrade Jake:
The comments are fascinating. The level of rage and paranoia on the Right defies reason.
Skippy-san
Reversing that COLA cut is a big deal to guys like me, who have every right to expect the government to honor its committments to retirees. Its a breach of a contract, and the government has no right to do it. The provision flies in the face of the principles that guide the ongoing congressionally-mandated review of military compensation and retirement. And its a real revenue loss for me, one that won’t get made up.
Comrade Jake
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: 18 is the minimum number of GOP votes needed. I think the conventional wisdom is that all of the Dems will vote for a clean bill, but we’ll see.
boatboy_srq
It’s really tiring to hear the Reichwinge over the debt ceiling. It isn’t “authorizing new spending”, FFS, it’s agreeing to pay the bill for spending already authorized.
I’m waiting for somebody to turn their family budget model on its head over this: it’s like going with a bunch of friends (including the GOTea) to dinner together, letting the GOTea pick the restaurant, letting them bring the coupons (Shrub tax cuts) they say will help pay the bill, watch them order 3 appetizers, champagne and a cocktail or two (Afghanistan/Iraq/GWoT/MedicareD/DHS), and then – when the bill comes – learning that their coupons have expired and they think their seven-course meal is only worth the price of a cheeseburger and fries and that they won’t pay any more than that. Newsflash: you ordered all this, ate everything put in front of you, and the bill’s here; it’s too late to complain about the costs or send anything back because you changed your mind. STFU and pull out the credit card already.
Comrade Jake
@geg6: as of early this morning, the GOP is in fact saying it will be a clean bill.
geg6
@Suffern ACE:
I just had an argument last night on Book of Faces (I know, I should know better) with an old friend from my 20s who is now a full-blown Teahadi living in the rural wilds outside of Orlando (just to set up what crazy he interacts with every day). I had shared some graphic about the minimum wage and what it would be if it actually kept up with inflation. He swooped in with some patented what-about-the-troops and what they get paid and they should get it and not those lazy ass civilians who don’t deserve a living wage. I answered back to him that, for people like me, it’s not a zero sum game. That an increase in the minimum wage doesn’t take anything away from the military and that I would certainly support an increase in military pay and would happily pay higher taxes to cover such an increase but that still has nothing to do with people who work in the private sector who work in minimum wage jobs. He hasn’t said a word to me since.
I really don’t think it ever occurred to him that one thing had nothing to do with the other. Or that I, a DFH, wants to support the military. Or that, somehow, an increase in the minimum wage really wasn’t coming out of his tax dollars. I think I completely discombobulated him.
japa21
So now it will be a clean bill. I hope the Dems will come out and say, the GOP has agreed that the veteran benefit cuts need to be reversed. Let’s get it done. And demagogue the Hell out of it when the GOP refuses to.
Hill Dweller
@Comrade Jake: Robert Costa is saying it will be clean on the Twitter machine.
raven
@Skippy-san: So that whiny bitch Lindsey Graham has gotten his way. Motherfuckers took this bullshit and spun it into “spitting on vets”.
Manyakitty
I may have to appropriate this expression for myriad uses.
Belafon
@geg6:
And if it were high enough, fewer people would need food assistance, and that portion of taxes would go down.
raven
Roxy
@raven: Now that would be exciting
Comrade Jake
@Hill Dweller: No shit. I posted as much here, just upstream.
OzarkHillbilly
@Skippy-san: I sympathize. But nobody makes the same argument when union pensions are getting cut in orchestrated bankruptcies.
Chris
@geg6:
I realized a long time ago that every argument they have with you will be based on the foundational principle of “us conservatives good and righteous, you liberals wrong/moochers/unpatriotic/evil/greedy/totalitarian/wrong/wev,” which is how you end up with them responding to “civilian workers should have a living wage” with a total irrelevancy like “you hate the troops.” Not that this doesn’t happen outside of conservative circles too, but among them, it’s literally all they ever do. (Would blame Fox News and the like, but then you get to the chicken and egg question – are they that way because their media is so tribal and dumbed down, or is their media tribal and dumbed down because that’s what appeals to them?)
It’s why I stopped trying to argue with them.
geg6
@Chris:
This guy is hilarious, though. And not really a bad person. I think he’s just been in Florida too long (+20 years). He spews every Limbaugh/Beck/Savage line he hears into all his political comments and then turns around tells me that HST is his favorite author. I often have to stop myself from asking if he ever actually read anything HST wrote or just saw the Johnny Depp movie and thought he was a drug tourism writer.
Cassidy
Someone should email their teabagger rep and tell them that *Tyler Manawaroa’s 1st Amendment rights are being violated and see how they respond.
*Australian fighter posted very bigoted Instagram. The UFC told him that no matter how well he does on the show he won’t be getting a contract.
eric
@Chris: I have said this before you cant argue with conservatives because (1) the straussians are willingly lying to get their way and (2) the Jeebus freaks believe that God has sanctified every word out of their mouths so they are basically inerrant. There are no limits and no admissions of mistakes by either group. To the extent that the 1% are a discrete third group, then they think they are god so they are version of teh jeebus freaks without the otherworldly diety.
Chris
@geg6:
Ugh, don’t tell me Florida turns people like that! (Actually, I’m in Miami, not so bad).
Jeffro
@gene108: I really should hit that comments section more often, made my day, thanks for the tip!
SO SWEET!
Chris
@eric:
In other words, there’s no arguing in good faith. Ain’t nobody got time for that.
ericblair
@Chris:
My wingnut relatives figure that since I’m a Dem I must automatically support whatever idiot maneuver some random black celebrity has just pulled off, and it kind of derails them when I don’t. Luckily we keep political discussions to a minimum.
The other defining characteristic of the modern wingnut is the inability to understand personal agency. Or, as it’s also called, “freedom”. For example, the recent report on the effect of ACA on employment participation. The wingnuts start with the principle that Work is Good. Therefore, we must force everyone to work. The idea that it is more free to allow people the opportunity to work if they want or need to, and not work if they don’t, doesn’t seem to register. Similarly, religious freedom is the ability to force others to follow your religious beliefs. And on and on.
SiubhanDuinne
Washington Post news alert headline:
“Embraces.” LOL.
Amir Khalid
@ericblair:
Would you consider this appalling notion another example of not understanding personal agency?
catclub
@Comrade Jake: “I think the conventional wisdom is that all of the Dems will vote for a clean bill, but we’ll see. ”
I think Pelosi often tells Boehner that he has to come up with a certain number of GOP votes and THEN she will come up with the rest.
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid: You many recall the movie-theater shooting in Aurora, Colorado two years ago, in which some young men died trying to protect some young women from gunfire. Taranto is the idiot whose first comment was that he hoped those young women were “worthy of the sacrifice.”
(Actually, I have no way of knowing if it was his very first comment.)
DaveinMaine
Actually, the beauty of this is now the GOP can’t use the military pension cut against the Democrats in an election fight. Because their caucus refused to reverse it. It’s another self-inflicted defeat for the Republicans.
Suffern ACE
@Amir Khalid: Nope. That’s just moving crap around so you can bitch and moan about something. Drunken sexual assault was a natural part of male sexuality worth preserving when Claire McCalskill was trying to do something about sexual assault in the military. But now that that crisis has passed, drunken sexual assault a good way to claim that sexual assualt doesn’t exist when people are drinking. Once we solve the problem of drinking on college campuses, then we can discuss the problem of the “pure” sexual assault that is left over, which will probably be found to be just the natural result of men and women being together in close proximity and therefore feminism is to blame.
Cervantes
Rich, ain’t it?
Thus spake one of my favorite socialists.
Suffern ACE
@DaveinMaine: Why? They can claim that they were in favor of it but “other” peopel prevented them from voting on it. The nebulous “Tea Party” is against the increase, but no one’s name is out there as being specifically against it – just the nebulous “rank and file.”
Petorado
@geg6: Actually, Chuck just combined the two issues:
Schumer To House GOP: Nice Debt Limit Cave. Now Do It On Immigration. Ouch.
Comrade Jake
@Petorado: TPM gets the best photos to accompany their pieces. I love it.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@boatboy_srq: Fabulous analogy! Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Cervantes
@Petorado: Yes, he’s quick.
Amir Khalid
@Cervantes:
I do remember that. My own thought was that those young men evidently thought so, and who was Taranto to doubt their judgement?
Corner Stone
Cleveland Browns, man. Does Haslam even know where he is at this point in time?
Corner Stone
@Suffern ACE: Slutty Sexytime Strikes Again!
/GOP
Chyron HR
So, are we going to have a giant #thedaywefightback slap-fight this afternoon, or what?
Petorado
@Corner Stone: In Haslem’s defense, those two front office guys were complete idiots. The guy replacing Lombardi seems like he’s got a good head on his shoulders. It’s just another day as a long-suffering Browns fan.
Corner Stone
@Petorado: Idiots in what way? Lombardi was there for about a year. Banner about the same time frame.
srv
@Chyron HR: Obviously, the Obama Regime has gotten to JC and mm and this site will not be covering the protests.
https://thedaywefightback.org/
PaulW
So, a clean bill means…?
Suffern ACE
@Corner Stone: I thought he was facing possible indictments for tax fraud at his company. Maybe that’s distracting him….
Corner Stone
And since we’re talking NFL, I’m hoping my Texans get off their ass and sign Sam Shields off the free agency market.
Redshift
Our favorite number pops up again (via Steve Benen at Maddowblog):
Corner Stone
@Suffern ACE: I’m not too familiar with their ownership team, but I remember coming away from their firing of Chud after a year and thinking that place was a circus.
This move doesn’t seem too inspired, but I’m willing to be told otherwise.
Corner Stone
@srv: Speaking of day we fight back, I think Cole is probably too busy trying to line up a venue for his upcoming boxing grudge match with Omnes Omnibus.
srv
Dammit! Tom Perkins appearance at the Commonwealth Club to discuss Perkinsnacht is sold out.
Anyone know the rate for hiring black flag?
Corner Stone
@srv: I wonder if we can hire the bartender that taped Romney’s 47% diatribe, and get him in the event.
srv
@Corner Stone: It’s sad we don’t allow drunken brawls in public anymore.
Hill Dweller
Can Boehner round up 18 Republican votes for a clean debt ceiling increase?
rikyrah
Liberal Librarian @Lib_Librarian
Follow
Boehner caves. Clean debt ceiling raise. This time it really is #obamasfault
10:56 AM – 11 Feb 2014
Ash Can
@SiubhanDuinne:
It’s kind of difficult to actually embrace it when it’s krazy-glued to your ass underneath a big neon “kick me” sign.
Raven
@OzarkHillbilly: read the fine print
Raven
@OzarkHillbilly: read the fine print
Southern Beale
Big union vote in Tennessee tomorrow and speaking of shitting one’s pants, Republicans are doing it.
Davis X. Machina
The people who own John Boehner have told him to knock it off.
slippytoad
@boatboy_srq:
Oh, saying so to any random GOPer ensures a fusillade of utter self-serving garbage about how Obama this and that and liberal spending and made up numbers and just flat out lies.
They know they are doing this. They are INTENTIONALLY ratfucking this country to try to get power. I think we should reward them with political oblivion.
Petorado
@Corner Stone: Lombardi has a long history as a poor talent evaluator and Banner is strictly a numbers guy who will ax team leaders and Pro Bowlers to make his spreadsheet look nice. The duo didn’t fill gaping holes in the lineup, such as after trading Trent Richardson, and basically set up the team to fail this past year, then firing the coach as a scapegoat.
Ash Can
@Davis X. Machina: And how. Plus, someone at LGF posted a tweet from Robert Costa saying that Boehner told Pelosi that he needs Dem votes for the bill (which she’ll obviously arrange). Sounds like Mr. Orange has finally realized that there really are worse things than losing his precious speakership.
Bill Arnold
Too easy. The GOP leadership is very clearly aiming for the 2014 midterms.
Hill Dweller
@Ash Can:
Boehner still needs at least 18 Republicans to vote for the debt ceiling increase. That is nowhere near a sure thing at this point.
Corner Stone
@Petorado: Well, as I said, not too familiar with the Browns ownership.
Personally, I think they got good value for Trent. ISTM, that if Brian “Steny” Hoyer hadn’t gone down they had a legit shot at being around .500. They have some excellent young talent on both sides of the ball, and with the stockpiled draft picks they may be able to make some positive moves. I guess we’ll see.
If your evaluation is correct then it seems like a damned shortsighted move on both Banner and Lombardi’s part.
ruemara
@Chyron HR: when “fighting back” involves blogs and Twitter, you’re really not worth the pixels. Be great if, say, they had a legislative plan. Otherwise, just another masturbatory slapstick session of pretend differences.
Belafon
@Southern Beale: I love that story.
West of the Rockies
I have been commenting here sporadically for some years now (having just lurked previously)… Honestly, this post highlights for me what I’ve been feeling for some time with politics: bored/frustrated/disillusioned.
I know it is essential to keep fighting, to keep confronting stupidity and dishonesty on the various blogs I visit, the conversations I have, and so forth. But it all seems so pointless sometimes. There are still people who regard Obama as a radically leftwing atheist/Muslim/Marxist; no amount of comment will dissuade these people from their opinions. Getting too worked up over the latest political theater and outrage is just wearing me out. Anyone else feel this way? I find myself commenting less, visiting less often, and just feeling like I’m being scammed by the whole damn process.
gvg
@OzarkHillbilly: Actually I make that argument all the time and also that I do not understand how the law can allow all pay/pension contracts to be reneged on everytime a business is sold but allows vendor/seller contracts to be transferred. In other words frequently a company will be bought up by another because it has some valuable contract to buy or sell something with another party and thus the new buyer obtains it, however contracts with workers gets to be totally tossed out. Say what? Contracts should matter. Seems to me the anti worker attitude of certain parts of our populace doesn’t even understand what are contracts.
I pretty much put standing up for vets in the same catagory as standing up for workers and I’ve noticed our history is very bad on that kind or promise.
Cervantes
Someone’s learning.
Belafon
@Belafon:
Republican: The workers at the VW plant are trying to unionize!
Person: But the company supports it.
Republican: They’re trying to turn the US into a socialist nation, just like Europe!
Person: Then why did you invite them over?
Republican: We thought they’d be a good corporate citizen and donate to Republicans, not try to work with it’s employees.
IowaOldLady
@West of the Rockies: I have outrage fatigue sometimes. I find it’s best to save it for what matters rather than spend my time hunting down some idiot somewhere who says the most racist thing imaginable. Stupid gotta be stupid.
schrodinger's cat
OT: BTW I finally wrote a post about Lori Gottlieb’s stupid magazine article for the NYT, according to her couples splitting household chores puts a damper on intimacy.
Ms. Not Good Enough will now analyze your marriage.
Yes she is the same woman who wrote an whiny rant about the ACA.
SatanicPanic
@West of the Rockies: Yes, but I chalk it up to mostly lame-duck status for Obama. Until the house flips we can, at best, only hope things don’t get worse. Which is uninspiring to say the least.
schrodinger's cat
@West of the Rockies: What depresses is the constant negativity and the sky-is-falling memes on our side more than anything else. I am referring to a recent thread where people were gaming scenarios about impeachment after the Dems lose the Senate. Something that hasn’t even happened yet, and has a low probability of happening in this cycle.
El Caganer
And, totally OT, the residents of WV get a brand-new treat in their water: http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/02/11/3277541/west-virginia-coal-slurry-spill/
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Southern Beale:
Thank you for the link. For an outfit that says the government should keep it’s hands off of business, those Tennessee Republicans sure are interested in meddling with VW’s own policies.
Republicans have already demonstrated that they’re innumerate. I would think that at least one of those Tennessee R’s would still be aware of the fact that Germany (Behind China) is the second-largest exporter in the world. Maybe their ideas are worth trying.
But, noooooooooooo.
Cervantes
@West of the Rockies: If you’re already frustrated, trying to persuade Republicans may not be the best use of your time.
If you still want to help, getting out the vote may be how you can help most. Ask locally for exactly what to do, even if it’s “only” on Election Day.
And thank you for all the work you’ve already done.
pluege
obama would do well to veto the bill. Clearly republicans are trying to establish the principle of the “unclean” debt ceiling bill. One of obama’s strongest arguments in this matter has been that all other debt ceiling bills have had no strings attached. Accepting strings attached just because the strings may be more tolerable or even good is a bad idea,
Cervantes
@Hill Dweller:
Here’s his strategy:
Corner Stone
@schrodinger’s cat:
10 times a month! Somebody point me to manly chore land.
Paul in KY
@Skippy-san: Sure hope that reversal happens.
Corner Stone
@West of the Rockies: You’re going through a rough time. Maybe politics isn’t the best place to focus on for a bit.
schrodinger's cat
@Corner Stone: Ask LG she has the directions.
Belafon
@pluege: Read the update.
Paul in KY
@Chris: Chris, I spent 3 years in Homestead 83 – 85. Enjoyed the beaches & fishing. Didn’t enjoy the heat quite as much.
Paul in KY
@Amir Khalid: Taranto is a slime ball of the 1st order.
Paul in KY
@Petorado: One day in the life of Ivan Dawgpoundovich…
Paul in KY
@Corner Stone: Didn’t agree with canning Chudzinski after 1 year. Hard to hire a good coach when stuff like atht happens.
Paul in KY
@srv: I think it is 80 cases of beer, some whipits & 1 ounce powder.
Peter
@Amir Khalid: Yech. What’s really annoying is that, like so much Libertarian horse shit, if you look at it purely in the abstract he’s got a point. When we (quite rightly) base our understanding of rape in informed consent and power dynamics, we have an ethical problem: If two people walk into a bar, get falling-down drunk, and willingly have sex with each other, who raped whom? Did they both rape the other? Does an equal level of intoxication render it a wash? These are legitimate ethical dilemmas.
However. That only applies in the pure abstract. In the real world, men deliberately get women excessively drunk in order to take advantage of her. In the real world, date-rape drugs are distressingly common. In the real world, even if both are equally drunk, a drunken man is much more likely to forcefully insist if his partner backs out.
Yes, technically both are at risk, not only of being accused of rape but also of being raped. However, these risks are not remotely equivalent. In the real world, that woman was indeed being protected from a potential rape. You fucking asshole.
Corner Stone
@Southern Beale: Billmon links to a post by a VW worker in Chat-town:
King: Having a voice — VW worker supports UAW
“No one who works at our facility wants to have his or her voice ignored. Some of us disagree about the best way to be heard, but we all want to have a voice. We all want to be able to discuss decisions with management, and find solutions that everyone agrees on. We all want to be a part of Volkswagen’s success in Chattanooga.”
Paul in KY
@Corner Stone: If we don’t get a QB, that would hopefully mean Mr. Clowney was there & I wouldn’t mind seeing him on D with Mingo & company.
agorabum
@Manyakitty: the line “When your kid isn’t toilet trained, it’s not news when they shit their pants” may be the greatest description of the operation of the Republican House from 2010 to today.
that one deserves to live on.
Paul in KY
@West of the Rockies: Politics is a grueling sport of attrition that plays out over many years. Keep the faith!
Paul in KY
@gvg: Would be interesting to hear what one of our esteemed lawyers has to say on this subject. Burnsie, any comment?
NonyNony
@Mudge:
Is our politics so screwed up that “they only voted for it because it conforms to the priorities that they have expressed as important ones” actually qualifies as an attack?
Hell any Democrat that voted against this would be an idiot. If it actually came to the floor (which it looks like it isn’t) every Democrat should line up to speak in support for “restoring the pensions of our valued veterans” because “we know that public service is important and should be rewarded”.
They’d probably get attacked for tanking the bill when Republicans decided they couldn’t support something Democrats liked, though. Because our politics is stupid.
Corner Stone
@Paul in KY: I would pee my pants in happiness if the Texans made some kind of trade to get Joe Haden in exchange for our first pick and another high round pick.
Cervantes
@Corner Stone:
See, that does not count as a manly chore.
Try again.
Corner Stone
@Cervantes: Unfortunately…I guess…I do not have a woman to domestically enslave with chores and/or service my wanton libido.
I do all the chores, manly or womanly, or they don’t get done.
I’m starting to sense a pattern here…
Jay C
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: @Corner Stone: @Southern Beale:
Yes, the weird part is that as far as unionization is concerned, Volkswagen seems to be fine with it (being HQ’d in Germany may have something to do with it: “union” isn’t a swear-word in German – yet), it’s the state Republicans who seem to be shitting themselves in some sort of inchoate fear…..
Paul in KY
@Corner Stone: To get Clowney or Bridgewater?
Corner Stone
@Paul in KY: I’m not going to suggest you take Clowney as I don’t want to incur the wrath of a resident FP Bucs fan…
But you can take Teddy B if you like! Hell, take Johnny Football if you really want to light some cash on fire!
Just give us Joe Haden, your 2nd round pick and maybe a conditional 5th or 6th. That would give the Browns 3 1st round picks! It’s a steal for a team rebuilding and on their way up!
Or give us Haden and your lowest 1st round pick! I’d be happy either way.
Bottom line, just give us Joe Haden and nobody gets hurt.
Gravenstone
@Corner Stone: I wouldn’t count on the Packers letting Shields hit the market. While they have a boat load of FAs to deal with this year, they have an insane amount of cap space, and Shields has to be among their priorities.
Corner Stone
@Gravenstone: Yeah, I agree. I’m just doing a lot of starry eyed wishful thinking about Texans getting a stud DB somehow.
I’m actually a little a’feared of what kind of damage FA is going to do to our current roster. Couple pieces we need to keep but they’re going to be pricey.
Paul in KY
@Corner Stone: I’m a Browns fan. I thought you were talking about trying to move up to number 1 pick. Joe Haden is a Brown & we’re not giving him up. We would give you our #4 pick and some other lower picks (maybe). Not one of our best players.
We’re going to get someone real good with the #4 pick.
Paul in KY
@Corner Stone: Oh, you’re a Texan fan. OK, I understand now.
You can pry my Haden from my cold, dead fingers…
Waynski
@Chris:
This. A thousand times this. My father (lifelong conservative) does exactly the same thing, which is why I refuse to talk politics with him any more. Logic and reason have no meaning to them. They realize they’re losing the argument, so they change the subject. I believe there’s a logical fallacy associated with this tactic, but I can’t remember its name. To paraphrase Kevin Costner in Bull Durham – trying to have a conversation with them is liking trying to talk to a fungo bat.
Corner Stone
@Paul in KY:
That deal is acceptable!
But yes, I was talking about Browns moving to get our #1 pick. For the low, low, bargain basement price of one nearly washed up old ragamuffin named Josef “Stalin” Haden. Dude’s almost at the end of his tenure in the Not For Long league. We’ll do you a solid, but just this one time, k?
mclaren
As I predicted long ago, Congress will never reduce America’s military spending by a dime. The sequester will hit everyone else, but never ever our worthless impotent military.
In Shithole America, military spending is a ratchet — it goes up, but never goes down. Food stamps will be cut, HeadStart programs for children will get slashed, medicare and social security will be reduced, all to pay for more non-working Osprey helicopters and more lightning guns designed to kill terrorists that wind up being sold on ebay for scrap.
AnotherBruce
@Corner Stone: Didn’t Lombardi pretty much fuck the Colts with that Trent Richardson trade?
Skippy-san
@OzarkHillbilly: If the government were going bankrupt-that would be probably the same. However in this case the government has the money, and can also raise revenue. The unions have a legitimate bitch; and it is part of a bigger problem with employers trying to walk away from their responsibilities.
Skippy-san
@raven: That proves nothing, all it does is restore the pension to where it should have been all along. The key issue is that for a majority of retirees they will lose a significant amount of their pension from the point they retire till they are 62. Thanks to DOPMA, very few people can remain on active duty beyond 22, 26 and 30 years-so they will spend their 50’s getting paid less they are allowed. The solution is not to fuck with military retirement, its to go back and adjust promotion flow points, fix DOPMA and allow personnel to stay on active duty longer to qualify for retirement.
Paul in KY
@Corner Stone: I knew when I wrote that that you’d think it ws OK :-)
They’ve made some other bone headed decisions over the years (losing Cribbs, not drafting Adrian Peterson, etc.) so you may get him yet!
Paul in KY
@AnotherBruce: That was one I was OK with.
Corner Stone
@AnotherBruce:
That was how I saw it as well. One of the reasons I wanted to know more about why Lombardi was an idiot and/or a bad evaluator of talent.
I’ve seen some scuttle that Cleveland media hated Lombardi for his first time with the team but I guess I’m not motivated enough to find the backstory of why.
I actually think Trent Richardson can be an effective RB in the right scheme, but he was ridiculously over-rated in the draft and everyone but the Browns seemed to know it. Jim Brown took a bunch of heat for making disparaging comments about TRich, and I normally don’t give a damn what JB has to say, but I agreed with his assessment at the time.