Fuck, we’re going to have to go through this fucking shit again.
1/3 of me wants Hilary to go away forever, 1/3 of me is thinking the Republican behavior towards her is going to make me crawl over glass to vote for her, and another 1/3 of me thinks I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
These stupid repugnant Rethuglican fucks* are going to force the fucking issue and piss us all off, aren’t they?
Same as it ever was.
* I was a Rethuglican fuck during the Clinton years, freshly off active duty, completely in the mind meld, and what drove us all mad was his invincibility. It took a decade for me to get my shit together. I’m getting better.
Omnes Omnibus
He wasn’t invincible. He was just smarter and more likeable than your guys and better at politics.
John Cole
@Omnes Omnibus: I’d like to think a lot of his charm was the fact that he was fucking right and made life better for everyone. But I would hate to tell you how to be a Democrat.
Where did that bullshit come from the other day, Omnes? I’d love to know where and how I am telling people how to be Democrats. I know my fucking past, I own it, and I don’t tell people how to be, so back it up, shut the fuck up, or apologize.
I never tell people how to be or how to behave. I just describe my own bullshit, and your charges the other day really offended me. Apparently my offenses were not too egregious, as you have commented on every thread since…
Alexandra
“Fuck the White House Correspondent’s Dinner.”
— Hillary Clinton
srv
It’s only your lack of faith in Hillary that will give Republicans their opportunity.
Please post your address for your complimentary Mainway Inc. Bag of Glass.
hitchhiker
It will be okay. The Ds have successfully framed the Rs as having their heads up their heinies when it comes to women — mostly because they really do have their heads up their heinies when it comes to women.
The Rs will not be able to deal with HRC because of this. All their attacks will look like more War on Women.
Also, remember Bill’s talk at the D convention last year? He killed, and we needed him to. I think if Obama campaigns for her, and Bill campaigns for her, she won’t need anybody to crawl over glass. The youngest Obama voters (my younger daughter is one of them) will be mid-twenties for this election.
They will NOT be switching parties if the Rs are still beholden to their craziest peeps in the TP. I don’t see that dynamic changing any time soon.
Omnes Omnibus
@John Cole:
Which bullshit? I am willing to back whatever I said, withdraw it, or apologize as appropriate. Just point me at it.
Big R
@John Cole: Is it bad that all I could think in this whole thread is “Not a Democrat. A khaleesi.”?
eemom
@John Cole: @Omnes Omnibus:
dammit, why does interesting shit always happen on this blog when I have RL issues and have to go to bed?
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: I don’t even know what this is about.
Suffern ACE
@Omnes Omnibus: you were cranky one night and were miffed at former republicans who were now democrats offering advice on what Democratic Party politics should be.
maeve
I went out for Obama in 2008 after he won the early caucuses/primaries – it was a gut reaction – “What are we an f’,,,in oligarchy? It was Bush, Clinton, Bush and now Clinton again and maybe Jeb Bush in the future?
As much as anything, it was Obama bringing in new people and ideas (including alternative colorations) and perspectives as anything.
In my family, Mom and Dad (knee jerk liberals) were for Hilary but all 4 kids (now in our 50’s) were for Obama. (Not just voting but acting).
I can’t say I am totally happy with what has happened, but am realistic to that politicians are politicians and that I always expected middle-of-the-road. I was just disappointed that his strategery was more obvious in the election than in subsequent congressional stategery.
As a 50+ year old female person, I am totally into the idea of a female Prez, and think Hillary should have been the candidate in the 90’s.
But ….
eemom
@Omnes Omnibus:
Me neither, but it’s certainly interesting. I mean how often does the BlogLord himself descend from the top of the um, cat tree, to pick a bone with (ahem) one of the few reliably rational and even-tempered voices in the refuge of vitriolic jackals…with precise attention to the number of threads you’ve commented on since….whatever you said to piss him off. Sheeyit.
El Cruzado
Let’s be honest: every week is the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
Anne Laurie
@maeve: “Voters” — not just Democrats, and not just committed political junkies — want to see the first American female president. Hillary Clinton, if she runs, looks to be the surest possible choice for that role… and, if nothing else, she’ll choose decent SCOTUS candidates. IIRC, Jesse Jackson wasn’t too thrilled with Barack Obama as a candidate, back in 2007. Sometimes you run for office with the candidate you have, not the ideal candidate you would like.
(Of course, I was an Edwards supporter, so WFT am I to tell anyone how to pick a winning candidate?)
Omnes Omnibus
@Suffern ACE: Ah. I’ve been here all my life. Sometimes, I resent what seems to be a lecture about politics from people who spent years being stunningly wrong about everything. I do not recall the specific context of my offensive comment, but, from your comment, it seems to be in the general area. I try to apply nuance to situations. I do not believe that John does. His best rants, which are genius and not something I could ever produce come from that, but so do some of his worst errors. If John wants to discuss specifics, I’ll be up for about another half an hour.
Bill E Pilgrim
Bill Clinton was like one of those science fiction creatures that got stronger and fed on hatred, in his case with a symbiotic assist from the populace. The more the right wingers hated on him, the more sympathy he got from the rest. Which he fed on also. Basically he liked to be fed, is what I’m saying, but we knew that already.
Republicans should have taken a page from Star Trek and used the trick of all inhaling laughing gas and becoming babbling lunatics, but then again that’s pretty much what’s happened now and look where it got them.
duck-billed placelot
She’s a hawk and a DLC business-oriented politico. The next presidency or two will be the ones making real choices about drones IN the US, net neutrality, and some major environmental stuff that we’re already probably screwed on.
I’d just like to see someone primary her, and primary her hard, from the far left. Also, I have no doubt that any young pretty thing with a dick who shows up will win the heartsandminds of the press, so who knows what will happen.
J.Ty
Female president == good. Hillary == …a particular female candidate for the presidency. I don’t really see anybody in the wings who’s both better and likely to win a general, at least right now.
And let’s not forget that even Biden bragged, after 9/11, that his office produced the blueprint for the Patriot Act in 1995 after Oklahoma City. There aren’t many prominent dems out there who don’t kinda suck.
ETA: A younger Jerry Brown might interest me.
John Cole
@Omnes Omnibus: You were ranting about me telling people how to be a good Democrat, when I have never done anything of the sort.
I never tell anyone how to be or what to do, I just say what I am thinking at the time. If that pisses you off, well, fine, and go fuck yourself, and stop reading a blog where people write about what they are thinking.
I will readily concede that while I have a live and let live personal philosophy, I am a still a judgmental fuck and have all sorts of things I think about but do not say. Having said that, your accusation that I somehow have some master plan for what is and what is a “good” Democrat, and that I somehow had been treating you like a “bad” Democrat, is as stupid and ridiculous as it is egocentric. Motherfucker, I voted for Bush twice and just joined the team. I’m fucking self-aware enough to not tell lifelong Dems how to be.
It seems pretty clear to me that, in a two party system, the only way to be a bad Democrat is to vote Republican or to take a job on Fox news, and I do not remember dispensing any advice as to what makes a good or bad Democrat.
So, pray tell, just what the fuck were you talking about? Or, like I said, just apologize for the assertions.
maeve
@Anne Laurie:
I was trying to articulate why I not only went out for Obama (never imagining that i would not go all out for the first viable female presidential candidate) but also ended up (for the 1st time in my life) canvasing and going door-to-door.
In the process going door-to-door for our democratic senatorial candidate (Begich) and personally taking credit for electing him (joke – since it went to a recount and when it was announced the recount was down to our borough and the early votes in the thousands had yet to be counted and that was enough to decide – I knew we had it in the bag because it was us hearty troups who had gotten out those early votes). So I may not agree with all his votes- but at least he is a democrat and not in lock-step with the republicans.
So staying out of things is not a good options (IMHO)
Omnes Omnibus
@John Cole: .
Obviously, you did not come off that way to me. Look, I’ll admit that I still carry resentments from shit that was said in the early days of Bush II. You should understand that your rhetorical style is not subtle. You can easily offend. I still don’t recall the specifics of the interaction that has offended you, but I am presuming that you made one of your broad assertions and I disagreed with it. I probably disagreed more more with the perceived tone of the remark than its substance. You have made a remarkable political transition; I will spare you the false congratulations. OTOH, converts can be overly devout.
TL:DR version: If I offended you, it is because you offended me first.
ETA: You provide a wonderful forum for discussions. I appreciate that. The fact that I thought you apparently were being a dick on a particular occasion does not change that.
Anybodybuther2016
@Alexandra: @Alexandra:
Fixed that for ya. :p
Anybodybuther2016
@maeve:
. Ding ding ding. We have a winner! Do not underestimate this sentiment.
Anybodybuther2016
@hitchhiker:
ha! You funny. I can totally see PBO throwing his Vice President under the bus to make sure your “white queen” has “her turn” sitting on the throne. /eye roll.
J.Ty
@Anybodybuther2016: ?
ETA: Just read username never mind
Geoduck
I’ll always remember Phil Hartman playing Clinton on SNL right after the whole impeachment fiasco finally ended: “I. am. bulletproof. Next time, y’all better bring Kryptonite.”
Citizen Alan
@Anybodybuther2016:
I can easily imagine him taking the position that both would make good presidents, both worked under him in executive positions, and both are friends (whether that’s true or not), so he’s going to remain impartial and then campaign on behalf of the eventual nominee. I do have reservations about HRC. But I have the same reservations against Biden, against whom I hold a personal grudge for his leading role in the pro-corporatist abomination that was the Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2005.
James E. Powell
@maeve:
It was Bush, Clinton, Bush and now Clinton again and maybe Jeb Bush in the future?
It was that, more than anything, that made me an Obama supporter.
Also I thought then, and I still think now, that the great mass of American voters are more willing to vote for any man over any woman. I am very leery of Hillary Clinton being the Democratic nominee. I feel it’s the only chance the Republicans have of winning the presidency. They have no issues other than hating the Democrat.
Rafael
I think she would give us the biggest victory of the last thirty years… her coattails will be huge… and yeah, it won’t hurt to see Obama and Bill campaigning for her… I imagine women of all ages and economic condition getting as excited to vote for her as the black community was excited to vote for Obama. And there are so many female voters that it could turn into a nightmare for republicans all over. And sad as it is to admit it, I bet a lot of people that had “issues” voting for Obama will find it easier to vote for Hillary. (Not implying that everyone who preferred Hillary had issues with Obama’s race, but I believe there were a few who felt that way)
Botsplainer
@duck-billed placelot:
Fuck Mumia.
Gvg
still can’t believe she is serious about running. I really think she is too old in a health wise sense. that job is IMO a serious drain and I wish she would’ve try this. I would also prefer a younger viewpoint.
I don’t like the dynasty angle at all.
I have to vote for any democrat over those lunatic republicans.
while the Clinton impeachment stuff was going on and I accepted he really had had the affair and lied I still realized at the time that having him in office blocked some seriously anti women’s right law’s from becoming law. gingrich’s congress was already trying things that offended me and even scared me. they have always been anti women are equal. I knew it was ironic but Clinton the guy with multiple affairs which I don’t admire was a reliable veto to protect my rights and passed something’s that we’re good. the awareness of the different views I had of C at the same time probably made me a reliable democrat in most elections after.
Unfortunately I think Hillary has been trained by too much attack to give in on certain issues. I think the Iraq vote was shaped by the first Iraq war outcome of the dems who voted against it losing reelection.
EriktheRed
@srv: It’s posts like this one that make me wish this site had an up-vote feature.
AxelFoley
@John Cole:
Damn, Cole. Did Omnes piss in your cereal, too?
The Thin Black Duke
Do you know why the idea of Hillary Clinton running for president in 2016 terrifies me? If she runs a stupid campaign (distancing herself from Obama as Gore did with Gore, Mark Fucking Penn, etc.), Mitt Romney will beat her.
MomSense
I did not like Bill Clinton as president but I voted for him twice because the Republicans were nuts. I am not impressed by his record as president as I think a lot of the harm of this last recession can be attributed to his polices-especially welfare reform and deregulation of financial market. If Hillary Clinton is the nominee I’ll vote for her but not a second before. I liked her as First Lady for her work on health care reform and thought she was preferable to Bill in many ways until she became a Senator. I’m not impressed by her Senate record at all. I was not impressed by her at State either. She, Bill and her campaign were horrible last time and their willingness to dog whistle and go straight up racist was despicable. I sincerely don’t understand why progressives like the Clintons. I didn’t get the Edwards love either as it was clear his two America routine didn’t match his Senate votes or his life history. I desperately want a woman president and would prefer to wait for one I believe in. Perhaps someone can explain to me what exactly they liked about Bill Clinton’s record as president.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@Anne Laurie:
Which, if true, is a problem; we shouldn’t be nominating anyone based on any criteria other than how well we think they would govern once elected. I sure as shit won’t be voting for Hills because she’s a woman, or because it’s her turn, or because Bill was her husband, or any other bullshit reason. I’m not yet convinced she should be the nominee (though I admit I’d be hard-pressed to name any alternatives right now); she didn’t run the awesomest campaign in 2008, and had somewhat bad taste in picking her campaign staff.
I’m feeling this awesome sense of deja vu, where Hillary is the Annointed Democrat because, well, because we just can’t think of anyone else right now. That was the case in 2006, and look what happened.
I’d be the happiest if neither the Clinton nor the Bush family ever got within sight of the Oval Office again.
PaulW
I despair over the fact that we’ve got fucking pundits obsessing over 2016 when we’ve got a perfectly important MIDTERMS to fight over right now. GRRRRRR
If we need to, I want to highlight a few points: 1) Democrats have a decent field of potential candidates – O’Malley (MD) comes to mind – that could run a more confident, populist-leaning campaign than Hillary could, 2) There’s always a possibility a dark horse, rising star figure that we don’t even see on the radar making a splash and becoming a solid challenger to the Hillary juggernaut, much in the way Obama did.
I’m not as scared of a Hillary presidency for 2016 the way 2008 scared me – somehow, serving with distinction under Obama seems to have tempered that ambitious vibe of hers even though she’s still got that ambition – and I would have no qualms voting for Hillary over anyone the modern wingnut Republican faction puts up for rejection.
Aimai
I want to win the presidency. If anyone great comes along ill vote for him of her but hillary clinton is not a bad choice qua politician and the choice is limited to functional, famous, charismatic politicians . It just is. I dont consider her a clinton or part of a dynasty the way the bushes are. Of course I’m a married woman and i dont think of myself as subordinate to my husband–his pawn, tool, or pupil. None of the top democratic contenders have clean hands or are radicals. That is, at the moment, what makes them known. Could someone come out of the woodwork at this point–? Maybe. But the amount of money and organizational skill to capture the presidency is, enormous. You basically cant go up against the entrenched billionaire boys without raising a billion yourself and that isnt going to be done by a truly fresh faced clean hands kind of candidate. Its just not. On our side the entrenched interests will want someone who will play ball. Our voters are too unreliable to back an unknown just because they have a D after their name.
This is a competition where name recognition, brand loyalty, and money are all necessary for a win. But its a winner take all system. So choosing one leg of the stool “i live my candidate becsuse etc…etc..etc….” Is a fools errand.
Keith G
@MomSense:
In the same way I tolerate Obama’s missteps: Don’t let a desire for near perfection turn into dislike for the imperfect good that is here now.
edited
Keith G
@Aimai: I agree (yes I do). I am hoping that I am sensing the beginning of one the regular shifts in the makeup and outlook of a political party. HRC is a bit of a place holder – possibly the last of the Post New Deal Democrats to hold the Presidency.
The next generation of Democrats are not strong enough to win the office in the way it is now contested. I do not know if HRC will be as committed a progressive leader as the land desperately needs, but she will seems like she can keep the presidency away from the Koch Brothers. By the time she is done, I hope a younger and more successfully liberal Democratic leadership in in place.
Eric U.
there are people that irrationally love Clinton because the economy was good during his presidency. Of course, I attribute some of that to the tax hikes that he pushed through, but otherwise he didn’t do that much. Bush II made him look like a genius, no doubt
jayboat
@PaulW:
I’m with you on O’Malley. Great screen presence.
If, for whatevah reason, HRC doesn’t run I believe he’s the next best choice.
Fun to speculate, but real focus should be on the here and now.
debbie
When Hillary doesn’t fold like a cheap suit in the face of the GOP’s “truckload,” they’ll be so angry, their heads will explode. I look forward to that.
Cervantes
@MomSense:
Here are some things (repeating myself): ended 12 miserable years of seemingly endless Republican misrule in the White House (never forget this); raised taxes on the 1% to balance the budget while lowering taxes on the poorest families; increased the minimum wage by 20%; put more money into education, Head Start, housing, food support; funded more scientific research; helped to bring gay rights further into policy debate; required a waiting period for handgun purchases; appointed Ginsburg and elevated Sotomayor; undid a military coup in Haiti; and recognized Sinn Fein so that it could help bring peace to Northern Ireland.
I could go on but, anyway, in all of this, he was bitterly opposed by “conservatives” — recall that the Republicans had Congress from ’95 onwards.
Cervantes
@John Cole:
Excellent.
IowaOldLady
I supported Obama at the 2008 caucus and I never looked back, so gender would not be my only reason for voting. But I too would like to see a president who looks like me before I die. If you’ve never been part of a group excluded from a position of power, it’s probably hard to imagine how much that can make you feel like less than a full citizen.
gene108
@MomSense:
Clinton was an opportunity lost.
He tried to advance a liberal agenda, but was caught up in an era that was not yet ready for it and an era that did not have liberal out lets, even one as small as blogs, to counter right-wing lies.
I remember White Water being in the news for the first year of his Presidency and thinking WTF doe sit have to with his job as President, but right-wing news pushed a meme and the MSM ran with it. Pre-worldwide web the ability to get real time info to counter the lies was harder, so they hung around in the media long enough to seep into the popular consciousness.
As much as we brush off Benghazi, Fast and Furious, or even things like Obama getting a loan from convicted felon Rezko, these sort of minor controversies consumed President Clinton’s time in office, eventually ending up in his impeachment over lying under oath over a private matter no other President had to testify over.
I also think a lot of the problems, with him can be summarized in John’s statement in the OP, “I was a Rethuglican fuck during the Clinton years, freshly off active duty, completely in the mind meld, and what drove us all mad was his invincibility. It took a decade for me to get my shit together.”, where a good part of the country lost its collective fucking mind that a “dirty-hippy-draft-dodging-pot-smoking-punk” got elected to the White House.
The outright hatred can be seen in the rise of the militia movement, the millions right-wing billionaires spent to ferret out the Paula Jones story, and the conversion of the Republican Party from loyal opposition to a Party determined to grab power for itself, by any means necessary.
On the more liberal than people think, Clinton’s early policy failures include trying to get gays to serve openly in the military and universal healthcare. The military and Congress were not ready to accept gays in the military. The existing rule, in 1993 was gays were 100% banned from serving in the military. As much as liberals hate DADT, it established – for the first time – the right of gays to serve in the military.
When Clinton tried to roll out universal healthcare, old time Republicans were willing to hammer out a bill. Then Bill Kristol sends out his blast fax to oppose the bill at all costs. You have the new wave of Republicans, like Gingrich, willing to use it to ride a wave of resentment to political power.
After those failures, I don’t think there was much Clinton could’ve done to go further left.
On the bright side of accomplishments was the effort of the DOJ to destroy organized crime. The tearing down of housing projects that were breeding grounds for crime.
Healthcare access was expanded via sCHIP.
Foreign policy was being navigated in a post-Cold War world, where we didn’t do anything batshit crazy and American lives weren’t lost in pointless foreign wars.
He got FEMA to work was a competent organization for the firs time in its history, as part of his goal to get Americans to believe government can be a partner in solving problems.
The budget was balanced.
Signing the Commodity Futures Modernization Act into law and Graham-Leach-Bliley into law were big mistakes, especially the Commodity Futures Modernization Act that set the ground work for the 2008 financial crisis, but in the boom times of 2000 a lot of people figured industry had figured out how to manage their business and did not need that much regulation. Hind-sight is 20/20 about how bad the CFMA was but at the time, everyone was riding high and few thought such a bad crash would happen in less than a decade.
I do think, if the times were different Clinton could’ve been more liberal, but the era, the media and the timing of things hurt his more liberal agenda, so he went further right.
pluege
It took a decade for me to get my shit together. I’m getting better.
good for you. welcome to the sane world.
Donut
@Gvg:
This is where I’m at, too, more or less. I’m tentatively on team Hillary if she shows that she will not run from Obama and embrace the nothing burger of the “middle.” Then again, I feel that way about anyone on our side who throws their hat in. If you run from the Democratic standard-bearer of the last several years, you’re dooming yourself to fail all over the place. (I’m looking at you, Schweitzer). If she tries to run down the amorphous middle and adopt a conciliatory tone towards any of the GOP issue framing of the last several years, I’ll be sizing up other options.
Clinton is a remarkable woman, a person whose accomplishments and impact are real, and whose record dwarfs every possible contender in both parties, and is supremely, highly qualified, maybe the most qualified we have had, especially since her tenure at State completed. The only person who can really fuck her shit up is the one looking back at her in the mirror.
gopher2b
A decade ago I would never had voted for HC because I loved war and not paying for it. Now I want Elizabeth Warren. I still don’t love HC (she’s a corporatist) but I will skip to the polls to watch the freakout over (1) another Clinton, and (2) who’s WOMAN! in the White House.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
“Offensive”? I did not find what you said offensive, but then I wouldn’t have, would I?
Here’s the first of your comments — your meaning was clear but implicit.
And here’s the second, with your meaning made explicit.
Hope this helps.
Jay C
@The Thin Black Duke:
Why would Hillary Clinton want to run away from Obama-Administration policies, a la Gore in 2000? First, she may have learned a lesson from that debacle; second, barring some unforeseen disaster in the next couple of years, Barack Obama is going to be leaving office with probably as high a positive rating as any President for many decades: and NO embarrassing scandals; third, another lesson Mrs. Clinton may have learned in the past few years is to be more careful in selecting her staff. Personally, I think the easiest path to victory in 2016 will be to make the election a clear choice for a “third Obama term”: YMMV.
@PaulW:
Yeah, I also agree about Martin O’Malley: I’d say it’s good odds he’ll be on the 2016 ticket as VP. You read it here first!
@Donut:
Word.
Keith
@John Cole: John, 1st time commenter. Been reading your blog for years, including your transformation from pro IW2 to anti. One thing that has impressed me is your honestly and commitment. When you changed teams (R2D), you went “all in”. Keep up the good work.
Keith G
@Cervantes: Reminds me of Macbeth – Sound and fury, and all that.
Cervantes
@Keith G: I assume you know that in that passage, Macbeth is talking about life itself — all of it.
Keith G
@Cervantes: I commit to nothing.
SpotWeld
The strategy is pretty sound. Clinton is going to be on every top 3 list of potential Dem pres canidates. Setting up all thise nois now gives opposition a win-win situation after the nomination.
Either Clinton gets the nom (with endorsement by Obama) and all of a sudden the GOP is concerned how the Dems can have so little regard for such scandals and the obvious disrespect for women. (Ignoring the lack of logic that implies)>
Or Clinton doesn’t get nominated and Obama and the Dems are anti-woman.
In the event the nominee is a woman other then Clinton then you can still play this out, since the the Dems are “fickle” or “disloyal”.
And if Clinton is tapped to run as the VP canidate, well all the scenarios can come into play.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: Thank you.
@John Cole: If the links that Cervantes provided are to the comments that offended you, I will just say that I don’t believe I was ranting. I didn’t ever say you were telling people how to be Democrats. I basically said that I find it annoying when comparatively recent converts tell me how to be a liberal. For one thing, there isn’t a checklist to fill in. In my view, people can disagree over a large number of issues and still be liberals. I see liberalism more as a way of thinking about problems than a specific set of solutions. For another, I was trying to do it when it wasn’t popular and lost job opportunities and friends over it. It can be rather personal.
As I said in one of the those comments the other night, you recently have been touching on that raw nerve tangentially. You have had a number of posts recently which referenced the early days of Bush the Lesser. Those posts re-exposed that raw nerve. I commented about it. It was not intended as a direct attack on anything you have said recently. To the extent that I came off that way, I apologize.
chopper
@Omnes Omnibus:
from what i remember of that thread, you were in a mood.
chopper
@Omnes Omnibus:
the actual post in question by john didn’t have any ‘how to be a liberal’ in it. he was talking about how guys like piers morgan need to learn how to shut the hell up. i think maybe to cole your comments came out of left field.
Paul in KY
@Omnes Omnibus: It was a specific comment you made a few days ago. I’m sure John can point you to it.
Betsy
@Anne Laurie: Actually, Edwards wasn’t a bad candidate at all, and had excellent positions on the environment, and on education, and a superb set of policies toward populism, the middle class and working class.
Of course he had other issues — I know the one we are all thinking of, but I mean others not the least of which was his drive to be an executive (made him a mediocre Senator)
Paul in KY
@Geoduck: I always thought Phil did the best Clinton. RIP, Phil.
Paul in KY
@Grumpy Code Monkey: I would be happy if Hillary or Chelsey won, as it would mean a Democrat had won the office.
Paul in KY
@Cervantes: Plus we had a 3 Trillion surplus when he left office!
Cervantes
@Paul in KY: Your 3 trillion dollars was never a budget surplus; it was the accumulated debt when Clinton left office — actually, 3.3 trillion, as opposed to 3.2 trillion when Bush 1 left office. And when Bush 2 left office, that figure was 7.5 trillion.
Here are the annual budget surpluses you’re thinking of:
Here’s what Bush and company did:
I’ll stop there. The nausea is overwhelming.
JustRuss
Bush was pretty much invincible for 6 years, but that’s not what drove me mad. It was his driving the country from surpluses into crushing debt, starting a couple stupid wars, and a handful of other idiocies. The fact that our courtier press applauded all this didn’t help my mood, but it was his policies, which we’re still suffering fallout from, that drove me nuts.
And that’s what really bothers me about conservatives…well, one thing anyways. Clinton and Obama are far from perfect, but instead of focusing on their real shortcomings, they make shit up, obsess about it endlessly, and when the rest of us don’t share their fictional outrage, they whine about bias and how “invincible” Democrats are….while the media spends years covering Lewinskygate, or cherry-picking Obamacare horror stories.
different-church-lady
What’s the last 1/3rd of you think? (yuk yuk yuk…)
Piss me off? The guy head-coaching the RNC apparently thinks making fun of the spouse wrong-done by is a winner. I plan to eat popcorn and be amused. And I’m all out of popcorn.
different-church-lady
@Paul in KY: @Cervantes: right, we had a yearly budget surplus, but there was still plenty of accumulated debt from over the years.
Paul in KY
@Cervantes: No problem on my bad semantics & your correction. Those figures made me think of creative tortures for Batshit McChimpy.
different-church-lady
@Cervantes: Ah, so Cole doesn’t know what “tangentially” means.
Cervantes
@JustRuss:
Worse even than the policies themselves, for me, was the non-stop lying — about the policies, about everything, day after day after sickening day.
Can anyone remember one honest statement Bush ever made in his campaigns or while in office? Could it really be that every word he spoke was a lie, “including ‘and’ and ‘the'”?
Cervantes
@Paul in KY:
Having him realize his name is worse than dirt is a good beginning.
Or would be, if I thought he could understand why.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
If so, don’t tell his mother.
Meanwhile, I answered your question re Amazon.
Gretchen
I voted for Obama in the primary in 2008 because I thought Clinton voted in favor of the Iraq invasion because she was afraid of being labelled a weak girl and had to prove she was tough. I don’t think she has to prove to anyone, including herself, that she’s tough any more, so I think she’d be a far better president now than she would have been then. I just wonder whether her health would hold up. But if she had a good VP – Martin O’Malley? – she could grease the skids of succession.
I just can’t believe the repubs are talking about Bill’s behavior 20 years ago as if it’s a slam on her. Her husband cheated on her, she forgave him, they’re still married, she didn’t do anything wrong, how is that a slam on her?
different-church-lady
@Cervantes: Yes. Now I must agonize over a book I was planning to purchase as a gift for a client. The burden of liberal conscious hangs upon me heavily…
different-church-lady
@Gretchen:
It’s yet another in the endless series of examples of how the modern conservative leadership thinks getting their choir to snicker = political winning. It’s like a bar argument at this point: they literally don’t care what the outcome is as long as their buddies are laughing at the other guy.
Cervantes
@different-church-lady:
Hard to imagine.
@different-church-lady:
You’re welcome.
J R in WV
I put a “Veterans for Obama” bumper sticker on both the car and the truck long before the first primary. The car was keyed while parked at work not long after that, no coincidence.
I watched Senator Obama make that wonderful and moving speech at the convention and thought, this man could be a great president, if the country could bring itself to elect a person of color. I have never wanted Secretary Clinton elected president.
On the other hand, Chelsea Clinton impresses me greatly as a very intelligent woman who has managed to carve a normal life out of the madness surrounding her family’s poltical life. I doubt that she is interested in high political office, but if she decided to run for anything, I’ll support her.
Whoever the Democratic candidate is in 2016, I will be out there working for their success. I have never voted for a Republican candidate for any office, as they are all mad in the sense of a rabid beast. Unable to think straight or tell the truth because their thoughts are so twisted.
It is obvious to any watcher that their minds are disordered or they wouldn’t propose such insane memes, such as that it reflects badly on Mrs Clinton that her husband treated their marriage so poorly. This is a crazed (and/or diseased) thought by any rational standard. It is one tiny example of how twisted their whole party had become.
Bush II was the worst leader we have ever had (in our lifetimes, at least), because he couldn’t think – just look at how long it took him to figure out that VP Darth Cheney was not operating with the best interests of the President OR the country in mind. Just himself, and his wealthy confederates in TX.
And the whole phony way they fomented that needless and counterprodictive war in Iraq means that the whole country (to me) is guilty of war crimes, because we didn’t prosecute the true war criminals, or even just hand them over to The Hague for prosecution there.
And the torture! The reason we were the good guys in WW II was because we didn’t have an institutionalized arm of the government in charge of torture.
Yes, there were enemy captives mistreated/tortured in combat. Yes, things happened that were despicable. But it wasn’t a formal application of torture by rule in an institutionalized manner, not until “President” Bush ordered it so.
So I’ll be voting for a Democratic candidate for president. And lots of other offices, too. Senatorial candidate Natalie Tennant, in WV – to replace Sen. Jay Rockefeller – could use a little help, if anyone wants to hold the Senate for Barack.
‘Cause you know they’ll impeach him in a blue second if they get the votes in the Senate!
Paul in KY
@J R in WV: Excellent post, JR! They (Republican voters) need to figure out why they are so mean to the powerless & so craven to the powerful.
johnny aquitard
@Gretchen:
Same reason why David Vitter’s wife is a scumbag because he had to dress up in a diaper and have sex from a prostitute.
See, she made him do it by making him sneak around doing crazy fetish shit with dirty hos because she failed him as a wife.
You got to understand that conservatives are bullies and abusers. They think like an abuser. It’s always the victim’s fault. “She made me hit her.”
So of course it’s Hillary’s fault because she made Bill debase and embarrass and humiliate himself and the nation by forcing him to seek a blow job from a young and star-struck female intern. Hillary put Bill through hell by doing that to him — and the country too which of course means conservatives so it’s personal for them because it’s their country and their white house.
Never mind that anyone who isn’t an abuser understands how a person is responsible for one’s own actions. Or that the hell that the country went through was entirely orchestrated by conservatives.
They loved tearing apart that presidency and that nation the Clintons represented. They’ve always hated Hillary because she is exactly everything they claim women should not cannot must not be. And they hate her for it.
And they’re still pissed they didn’t tear that marriage apart. They wanted that bad, and after all the hell the Clintons put them through they deserved for it to happen and they did everything they could to make it happen and it didn’t happen and they felt robbed. Which is also Hillary’s fault.
The Clinton witch trial made them feel good about their hatred. They felt righteous in their hate; they love having such unreasonable, personally vituperative hatred and finding a way to allow themselves to feel good about it.
johnny aquitard
@Paul in KY: RWA.
Right Wing Authoritarian.
See: Bob Altemeyer and his work that shows conservatives’ propensity for authoritarian aggression and submission.