Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

People are complicated. Love is not.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

T R E 4 5 O N

The poor and middle-class pay taxes, the rich pay accountants, the wealthy pay politicians.

If you’re pissed about Biden’s speech, he was talking about you.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

You don’t get rid of your umbrella while it’s still raining.

You can’t attract Republican voters. You can only out organize them.

Prediction: the GOP will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Eh, that’s media spin. biden’s health is fine and he’s doing a good job.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

I really should read my own blog.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

An almost top 10,000 blog!

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

rich, arrogant assholes who equate luck with genius

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

After roe, women are no longer free.

Yeah, with this crowd one never knows.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open Thread: Semi-True Detective

Open Thread: Semi-True Detective

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That show certainly has snared a lot of smart people. Half a dozen of the Grantland staff get together to parse “A Million Yellow Kings Dancing on the Head of a Pin“, starting with Alex Pappademas:

Four of the stories in Robert W. Chambers’s 1895 book The King in Yellow are about a play whose second act makes people go insane. I’m still not convinced that True Detective isn’t actually a media virus that causes outbreaks of hysterical Doc Jensen–ism.

Jensen (first name Jeff) is the Entertainment Weekly writer who blogged voluminously and obsessively about Lost during that show’s run, chasing down and annotating even the smallest textual references to pop culture or philosophy, while spinning out theory after convoluted theory about Where This Was All Going. He became Lost fandom’s theoretician-in-chief, and as a no less fixated Lost fanatic, I devoured everything he wrote about the show, even when it seemed fanciful or far-fetched… He and the countless other people who spent the late ’00s tirelessly postulating about WTF was up with the island were crowd-sourcing a towering edifice of hypotheses no actual TV show written by humans could ever live up to. For lack of a better “jump the shark”–esque term, we can start calling this the “Doc Jensen moment” — the point in the run of a mystery-based TV show when the building leaves Elvis, so to speak, and the story the actual show is telling gets eclipsed by the story the show’s fan base is telling itself about the show.

I can’t think of a series that’s gotten to that moment faster than True Detective…

I’m still not sure the show’s dedicated unpackers (including Jensen himself, who caught this case for EW, unsurprisingly enough) aren’t overestimating the richness of the text just a tad. For the first four episodes, this show looked an awful lot like an overwrought cop drama with award-bait cinematography, prosey MFA-workshop dialogue, laughably anemic supporting characters, and two redemptively great performances by Harrelson and McConaughey; about the only thing that’s clear to me after the fifth episode is that it’s not just that…

But now that I’ve said all that, here’s my Doc Jensen–ish two-cent contribution to the growing True Detective theory pile. Pizzolatto has cited Alan Moore’s and Grant Morrison’s comics as a crucial early influence. Morrison’s early-’90s series Animal Man is about a B-list DC comics superhero who eventually realizes he’s a comic-book character and steps outside of fictional reality to confront his creator, who turns out to be a mild-mannered Scottish comic-book writer named Grant Morrison…

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92Comments

  3. 3.

    Mnemosyne

    Do I have to say spoilers if the title of the thread includes “True Detective”?

    My theories so far:

    The Yellow King references will not turn out to be truly supernatural at all — they’re the bad guys’ way to keep a bunch of idiots who mix meth and LSD in line.

    Cohle went deep undercover to try and ferret out what the hell was going on.

    Also, too, anyone who reads Chambers’ The King in Yellow hoping for answers is destined to be deeply disappointed. It has one great story, several pretty good ones, and gets seriously bogged down in “decadent” stories about art students in Paris that vaguely reminded me of Maugham’s Of Human Bondage. (You know the girl is a prostitute because she walks around Paris without a chaperone! Gasp!)

  6. 6.

    Culture of Truth

    I don’t regret my time as a semi obsessive Lost fan. It was great.

    I caught some of the first episodes of TD. It seemed pretty good, but not captivating. I suppose I will try it again, but is it too late? I think HBO should run a marathon to catch us up.

  17. 17.

    Mnemosyne

    Super-duper spoilers in this link, which is interesting, but I seriously doubt.

    One thing for people watching the show to keep in mind — the writer and director have said in several interviews that you can’t trust what Rust and Marty say during their interviews with the other detectives, but you can trust what you see on the screen.

  18. 18.

    Tommy

    @MikeJ: If you have not seen it, well it is breathtaking IMHO. I pay a lot of money for my cable and I ought to have shows like this. Other people here have noted Grantland and honestly a few blog I follow about TV shows can’t really explain it. IMHO it is that much of a game changer. TV should be this good.

  22. 22.

    Tommy

    @Mnemosyne: Spoliers so just read on …

    That makes sense. I’ve not watched the show and broken it down second by second. But I think it is clear last week things went sideways and what they told, well not what happened. Well clearly.

    @Culture of Truth: I think you could argue it is a little slow moving. What I like about the show is the banter. Dialgoue. I have to rewatch scenes to hear what is going on. At times they use words I have to look up. I like this. I like that a TV show doesn’t speak down to me.

  24. 24.

    Hill Dweller

    @raven:

    Where’s burns to bitch and whine about Dook getting fucked by the officials, what bullshit.

    Bless Boeheim’s heart. I bet he actually believed his kids would get a fair shake.

    Welcome to the ACC, Jim, where the officiating sucks on a good day, but is damn near comical when Duke is involved.

  25. 25.

    the Conster

    I think this is the best show I’ve seen. Top of the Lake was a stunner too – scenery, mood, characters, mystery, but this has taken the concept to another level- more layered, more ambitious. Kudos to all involved, and Matthew McConaughey – well, who knew? Bravo.

  29. 29.

    Mnemosyne

    @Culture of Truth:

    It is slow-paced, but I’m willing to go with it because it’s a self-contained 8-episode story. If I thought it was going to be dragged out at this pace for the next 5 years at 20+ episodes a year, I would have given up long since. But knowing that the story has a definite beginning, middle and end makes me more willing to go along with the slow pace.

    Basically, it’s an 8-hour long movie broken up into one-hour chunks.

  32. 32.

    Southern Beale

    @Tommy:

    It’s nice, there’s a lot to do here and we finally have a lot of restaurants but the city is growing too fast. Dog poops in the park and 15 developers scramble to put a goddamn condo on the thing. Swear to god. It’s wearing me out.

  35. 35.

    Southern Beale

    Can someone explain to me the point of the 5-man bobsled? What do the other three do, besides push? And your bobsled wouldn’t be so heavy if you didn’t need to have seats for them.

  36. 36.

    Tommy

    @Mnemosyne: I am hooked on a few BBC shows. Where they have an end date. I recall reading an interview with Chris Carter (did the X Files) and he said he had an idea for 3-4 season show. They said they wanted to continue it and he said well if somebody is going to run my show into the ground it might as well be me. I don’t see how you run a show and it is popular and you pull it out for years and years.How do you tell that story? I find stuff I watch on the BBC they run a show for a year. A limited run. Another person here mentioned Top of the Lake. They had a start date and an end date.

  37. 37.

    raven

    @Southern Beale: We visited an old friend of my bride. She moved there to be a singer/songwriter. Her partner was the manager of several big names in Music City. The sell real estate. My brother and his family were in from LA. We went to one of those nice Saturday music things in Centennial Park (St Paul and the Broken Bones played it) and my brother met up with an old friend who was a singer in Sacramento. She sold real estate.

  40. 40.

    the Conster

    @Cassidy:

    I think the smarmy Elvis-like evangelist is too obvious for this show, but maybe that’s why it is him. I’m open to every possibility.

  44. 44.

    MattR

    @Southern Beale: Bobsledders want heavy people in the sled. More mass, more gravity pulling them down the track. There is actually a maximum combined weight for the sleigh and the riders.

    (EDIT: And yes, in the 4 man race the middle two guys essentially are there to push and then to be dead weight)

  45. 45.

    the Conster

    @raven:

    Maybe, but I don’t think so. My favorite bit of dialogue so far is Marty’s confession that his biggest failing was not paying attention to what was right in front of him. Flashback to the daughter’s arranging the figures in her bedroom that shocked her parents. What was that about?

  56. 56.

    ruemara

    It’s rare I feel like I have no idea what’s happening in pop culture. Unfortunately, I’m watching the low brow entertainment of Helix. It’s been pretty fascinating.

  57. 57.

    raven

    @Honus: They showed Boeheim screaming “BULLSHIT,BULLSHIT plain as day. Vitale says “we don’t know what he said to the official”!

  58. 58.

    the Conster

    @Cassidy:

    I think he’s too smart to be involved in any criminal way. He does establish the context and represents the cultural underbelly and probably knows the perpetrators, but I just think he’s too obvious as the ringleader. If it’s him I’ll be disappointed.

  60. 60.

    mclaren

    @Mnemosyne:

    One thing for people watching the show to keep in mind — the writer and director have said in several interviews that you can’t trust what Rust and Marty say during their interviews with the other detectives, but you can trust what you see on the screen.

    Duh. In episode 5, Cohle is explaining how LeDoux saw them approach and opened fire with a machine gun. Meanwhile, on screen, we can see Rust and Marty walking toward LeDoux’s shack with guns drawn, nary a shot fired.

    Okay, spoilers ahead…

    If anyone hasn’t figured it out yet, one early character mentioned that the murders were the result of a “devil-worshiping cult” involving “important people.” My prediction? That will turn out to be true. High officials in Louisiana will turn out to be involved in a devil-worshiping cult But who is the devil they’re worshiping? Chthulhu, of course, or some supernatural critter like him.

    The satanic crimes task force was sent by high officials to derail the investigation.

    And in the latest episode you can see coming from a mile away that Marty’s daughter will wind up running away from home, becoming a hooker, and will wind up one of the murder victims. She’ll wind up dead in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and Cohle will refuse to accept it as an accidental death and will continue to work it as a murder. Meanwhile, Marty refuses to accept that his daughter was a hooker murdered by a cult, and will steadfastly believe she just died of drowning in Katrina. He’ll claim that all the cuts are contusions are just the result of her drowned body getting slammed around in the floods — which Cohle will deny and treat as evidence of a homicide. That’s what will break up Rust and Marty.

    My guess about the show’s ending? Rust will solve the mystery only to come face-to-face with the governor of Louisiana (the “yellow king”) sacrificing a victim to Cthulhu…and Rust Cohle will be the next sacrificial victim after that.

    The show will end with Cohle getting framed for the murders posthumously and the Governor or whoever getting away with it and continuing the devil-worship cult — probably kicking off a presidential campaign.

  61. 61.

    Honus

    @raven: yeah, right. Duke shot 34 fouls shots to Marylands 19 last week in a two point win. Today they shot 25 to Syracuse’s 14. I’ve been watching the ACC since I started school at UVA 40 years ago. Duke always has an advantage in the officiating. They invented the flop.

  62. 62.

    patrick II

    @Southern Beale:

    The purpose is to sell tickets to an expensively built venue that otherwise would be empty while there are 100,000 potential ticket buyers in town. The same is true for the new team ice skating and, during the summer games, synchronized diving.

  63. 63.

    Cassidy

    @mclaren: Here’s my only real issue with that: unless they go full bore Cthulhu, it’ll be a show about cultists and that’s kind of boring. If they go with the actual mythos it’s still something thats really esoteric. I think the simple answer will be the best one and that’s a club of wealthy men who like to rape and murder.

  66. 66.

    Mnemosyne

    @Cassidy:

    I tend to agree with you. And if either of the detectives ends up being sacrificed a la The Wicker Man (the good version), it will be Marty. The stag/king is the one sacrificed, not the sacrificer.

  67. 67.

    NotMax

    @Tommy

    I swear if he could have figured out a cost effective way to make the costumes and vehicles out of wood, Lynch would have.

    Everything else possible was made of wood.

  69. 69.

    Mnemosyne

    @Cassidy:

    G thought he was still on the force, but I thought that Marty said he has a private security firm. We haven’t gone back to the first episode to find out who’s right.

  70. 70.

    Mnemosyne

    Last thing: it wouldn’t be the first time that a drug ring decided to use Satanic trappings to keep control of their employees and competitors. You can read about Adolfo Constanzo, but you should probably have a strong stomach, even with Wikipedia’s bland descriptions of his crimes.

  74. 74.

    Mnemosyne

    @Manyakitty:

    Hmm. The FIL’s involvement would explain the whole “drawings of penises” thing that one of the girls got in trouble for. Some of the comments on the article I linked to above are convinced that Marty has been abusing his daughter the whole time but IMO he’s too repulsed by the abuse we’ve seen so far to be an abuser himself. But if rich, powerful grandpa was the abuser … hmmm ….

  75. 75.

    Mnemosyne

    D’oh! I’m in moderation for talking about a body part that one of Marty’s daughters got in trouble for drawing in a previous episode.

  80. 80.

    Steeplejack

    For the first four episodes, this show looked an awful lot like an overwrought cop drama with award-bait cinematography, prosey MFA-workshop dialogue, laughably anemic supporting characters, and two redemptively great performances by Harrelson and McConaughey; about the only thing that’s clear to me after the fifth episode is that it’s not just that . . .

    Heh. This is actually a pretty good thumbnail summary.

  82. 82.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steeplejack:

    I have to disagree about the “laughably anemic supporting characters.” I think most of them have been great, especially the madam of the backwoods brothel they went to. Plus Michelle Monaghan has been dominating all of her scenes.

  83. 83.

    Steeplejack

    @Mnemosyne:

    Yeah, I think he’s in private security. He had a mini-monologue about transitioning, “staying busy,” etc.

    Also, I could have sworn there was a throwaway one-line mention in one episode that Rev. Tuttle (Buttle?), the creepy evangelist related to the governor, had died, maybe even committed suicide. But I was/am sort of counting on him for the big “rich guys raping and murdering” finale.

    Damn it, I think I am going to have to go back and watch the episodes again. I can’t remember if HBO On Demand allows you to fast-forward. Damn it.

  84. 84.

    Mnemosyne

    @Steeplejack:

    I remember the same reference. I think there was a quick flash of Cohle talking to the creepy evangelist in the 2002 timeline in the preview for this week’s episode. Or is that a spoiler? ;-)

  85. 85.

    Steeplejack

    @Mnemosyne:

    Yeah, that was his weakest point.

    On a semi-related note, I have been thinking that the two black cops are going to become more crucial characters the rest of the way.

  87. 87.

    Joseph Nobles

    @mclaren: Hart and Cohle make their split in 2002, not 2005. But I’m with you on the task force being used to derail investigations into the crimes of the cult.

    I was expecting the two of them to split over Marty ultimately backing the stonewalling (since he’s the one who needs the wall in his life). But as much as he tells Rust to shut up, he’s just as much into solving the case as Rust is. And I don’t think Marty is a good enough liar to have pulled off what happened in the last episode. The other two detectives really did give him a lot to think about. So I believe now the split will be over either Maggie or the daughter.

    Will there be supernatural elements to this story ultimately? Nothing that can’t be explained by drugs, I’ll bet. Carcosa is a city of the mind.

  88. 88.

    Dexter's new approach

    I think one thing the show should have taught viewers by now is there is a lot of misdirection thrown out there. It maybe fun, but it’s probably wrong to think, “Oh, now I get it!” In a tight show like this, nothing is shown without purpose, but I have decided to be content understanding that I’m not going to know what’s really going on before the writer wants me to know. And even then, it’s only a small piece here and there in a jigsaw puzzle of an unfamiliar place.

    I’m along for the ride, and it’s fun. And, for the record, it was episode 4 that set a new trajectory for the show – in plot, pace and intensity. The last 10 minutes were on the edge-of-your-seat stuff.

    (OT, yes Duke gets calls every year all the time, because they “play the right way.” They’re the “job creators”, and calls are their tax breaks in the NCCA world. Shit changes in the NBA.)

  90. 90.

    danielx

    Four of the stories in Robert W. Chambers’s 1895 book The King in Yellow are about a play whose second act makes people go insane. I’m still not convinced that True Detective isn’t actually a media virus that causes outbreaks of hysterical Doc Jensen–ism.

    Learn something every day….I kept seeing the reference and thought it was referring to a collection of short stories by Raymond Chandler…called The King In Yellow, natch. The title story was also included in another Chandler collection called The Simple Art Of Murder. All worth reading, as are – of course – The Big Sleep, The Lady In The Lake, Farewell My Lovely, etc.

  91. 91.

    Mnemosyne

    @danielx:

    Chandler was probably referring back to the Chambers story. And given that Chandler’s stories tended to be a bit convoluted (to say the least), I’m not surprised he’d like Chambers.

  92. 92.

    MaximumMary

    Just finished watching Sunday’s episode. The final shot of the pickup with the busted taillight is out of Chinatown. I’ve been binge watching this weekend. Want to watch it again with the closed captions on to catch all the dialogue.

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