Here’s a picture from a story on the Trail Scouts, the organization replacing the Boy Scouts for parents who want their kids to hold the same beliefs about LGBTQ people as the Westboro Baptist Church or the National Socialist German Workers’ Party.
The Scouts are still sticking to their stupid compromise of admitting gay kids while prohibiting openly gay leaders. They lost the haters as soon as they allowed gay kids to enter their ranks. They are losing corporate sponsors, like Disney, because they’re still discriminating against gays, especially by advancing the toxic notion that homosexuals are more prone to pedophilia. (And why, by the way, can there be den mothers?). One of these days, they’ll wise up and realize that the Mormons and Christianists are going to stick with the Hitler Scouts, because half-hearted hate just isn’t their style. Hopefully the Boy Scouts will figure that out some time before they go broke.
(via Belafon in the comments)
They look like a bunch of Romulan spies to me.
WTF? I keep trying to think of a more eloquent response to this, but I just keep coming back to What The Everloving Fuck. Thanks for posting a link to the source of this picture, I saw the picture earlier on my twitter and my mind kept trying to find some excuse for it, thinking that it couldn’t possibly be what everyone said it was. And yet it is! Hitler’s Scouting Youth making sure the Earth remains appropriately salty ( and I say, again, WTF?)
How weird must it be to be that one black kid in the group doing the Nazi salute?
“Tomorrow be-longs to meeeee…”
That’s their policy?
Good Lord, that’s retarded. For all the reasons you go on to explain.
I care not at all about the organization, but dang, that is not the way to keep it going.
Well, that’s fucking creepy.
……so that happened. They aren’t even trying to hide it!
@Citizen_X: Needs more Blixa Bargeld! http://youtu.be/4MPvmqA7L2k
Seriously? That’s really the salute? And the organizers think that’s a good idea? Words fail….
As I remember it, mothers were den leaders only for the younger, cub scouts. My mother was a den mother and some meetings were held in our home. I got to hang around and participant in those meetings but not the ones held in the public school or go on trips.
My mother was also a leader for the girl scouts (claiming that was what it took to get me into the troop) but I think she really liked having the position because it gave her some power of a sort. I really didn’t like girl scouts.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
You say this like self-awareness was a strong point of these folks.
Ironically, a song written by two Jews (John Kander and Fred Ebb). Adopted from Cabaret by white supremacists with no sense of irony.
The lack of self awareness is stunning. Why on earth would you pick anything even remotely reminiscent of a Nazi salute? It fits, but still.
They’re just doing things God’s way. Here’s a DC-area story about how God has to have Cub scout popcorn money:
@Mnemosyne: Hans Massaquoi would be able to give him some pointers on growing up black in Nazi territory http://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/0003/black_nazi.html
Are there side-by-side photos of these kids and Hitler youth doing the same salutes? There has to be a similar photo out there of Hitler youth.
Always be prepared…for lebensraum.
They don’t really *have* to figure it out before they go broke. The Boy Scouts have significant cultural and safety problems beyond just LGBTQ. There’s the child abuse, rampant safety and supervision issues. This in anecdotal, but I also seem to notice a fair number of accidents and issues at Boy Scout camps in the local area. And it’s usually stuff that’s totally preventable. Here’s a link to one I remember from a number of years ago.
There’s also the two doofuses who knocked over the rock in Utah last summer. Again, my bias, but not surprised it was the boy scouts.
@Mnemosyne: Not to mention that odds on that 3 of those other kids are gay.
Hmmmm…from the source article:
So is this a case of context and still photography?
maximiliano furtive, formerly known as dr. bloor
Nice salute, there. This youth group brought to you by the same people who think Obama’s “Forward” slogan is lockdown evidence of his plan to implement a communist state.
@SuperHrefna: I am 44. I am a huge hiker, camper, walker. I learned that through the Boy Scots. Pretty sure my Scout Master was gay. Didn’t know it at the time, but looking back. I still had a ton of fun.
@Hal: No. the caption says, “Trail Life members recite the organization’s creed during a meeting in North Richland Hills, Texas, Feb. 4, 2014 (LM Otero / AP)”
Here’s a related pic:
Until 1942 this was the “proper” way to salute the flag.
I salute your salute to our nations glorious future and Dear Leader!
/mein fuhrer I can walk!
I salute your salute to our nations glorious future and Dear Leader!
/mein fuhrer I can walk!
@SuperHrefna: Awesome! Thanks for that.
Example #1,000,000: if you want to find the stupidest white people, look for those who go on about white “supremacy.”
This whole thing about trying to exclude gays from the Boy Scouts, the NFL, the military is moronic.
Do the football players in the NFL now shudder to think a real live gay is going to be showering with them. Real live gays have been in all these organizations probably since their inception. Some are now “coming out”. BFD
I was in the military where you did shower with other guys. I mean who cares if somebody is quietly checking out your johnson.
For god’s sake, this country needs to grow up.
Rob in CT
Just had a whole “Obama phones!” conversation here at the office. Oy.
“They” get everything for free.
“They” have big screen TVs.
“They” get free food.
“They” get all this stuff. They live high on the hog, I tell you.
I pointed out that the phone program goes back to the 80s (zero impact) and that one needs a phone to try and land a job, which was actively mocked (THEY don’t look for jobs. They live a life of luxury).
And this was *not* the office wingnut. This was one of the relatively reasonable conservative-leaning guys. Sigh.
These “Christian” folks picked this salute deliberately or out of gross ignorance? Nah, they probably call Obama a Nazi so they must know. Totally messed up.
No One of Consequence
I got nuthin’.
By Hitler’s Loneliest Testicle… WTF is this?! How could *anyone* who *isn’t* a member of the Aryan nation think this would be *remotely* ok?!
IIRC, the Hitler-salute was considered perfectly normal and uncontroversial before World War Two and it even used to be how kids gave the Pledge of Allegiance, which was only changed after the Nazis gave it unfortunate undertones. So I suspect these guys’ argument is going to be “we’re just going back to our roots, it’s traditional culture!”
I further suspect that, just like the Confederate flag, they know exactly what the symbol means nowadays, but hey, it pisses off liberals, and they get to hide behind “heritage not hate!”
“His son now aspires to achieve a Freedom Award, the new group’s highest rank.”
Is there a more abused word in American English than Freedom?
I never got into the “Preacher” comics, but I vaguely recall a quote that was pretty funny and spot on in re this;
“Why is it that the greatest champions of the white race are always the worst examples of it? YOU! Where the fuck is your chin?”
To be fair, the photo is not of a salute, but taking during the singing of “Taps”.
via Crooks and Liars article — see correction at bottom of page.
But it’s a pretty awful organization anyway.
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: No, but I was thinking they’d possess some minimal level of consciousness.
@quasar: Nobody followed up when I said we might get our hair mussed in a nuclear exchange with the russians. I haz a sad.
@Rob in CT:
Sounds like someone needs to take the Food Stamp Challenge. Not that he’d ever agree to do it, or admit that $4 a day is all most food stamp recipients get.
@Rob in CT:
Pro tip: yes, he was. And no, he wasn’t.
So I assume they took “under God” out of their version of the pledge?
‘Conservative’ comes to mind.
@Rob in CT: I would love to know his proof of the life of luxury the poor are living.
Shut up! SHUT UP!
@Rob in CT:
I’m wondering if there is such a thing anymore. My old conservative coworker always portrays himself as open minded and just interested in the truth all the while wondering if Obama will actually give up the presidency in 2016.
I know a lesbian couple I used to have conversations with regarding the intolerance they face who regularly post lazy people on welfare stories on Facebook. Some people need to feel superior.
When he is of age, my son won’t be in the Boy Scouts. (And certainly not the Trail Scouts! Those parents are seriously f-ing their kids up!) Though I am a straight male and didn’t experience any discrimination–I got my Eagle Scout award, afterall–the BSA doesn’t look kindly on atheists, actively kicking out good scouts who don’t believe in angry sky fairies. I’ll teach my son how to hike and camp and start a fire. And there’s YMCA camps, which are co-ed, and at least in my memory were a lot more fun that snorting dirt and earning meaningless merit badges in a frigid sierra lake. Plus, though nominally xtian, I just can’t see the YMCA giving two schillings whether my son is gay or an atheist.
@dmsilev: @? Martin: Those aren’t synonyms?
@JPS: Does it say how they are moving their arms?
Mike in NC
In my old Boy Scout troop you were considered a badass if the scoutmaster or another senior leader allowed you to wear a sheath knife and carry a hatchet while out camping.
Why? They don’t give me cookies, the fuck do I care?
Wow, Godwin much? Just because they give Nazi salutes and advocate hate doesn’t make them Nazis.
@pacem appellant: Is there an American equivalent of the Woodcraft Folk? That’s the fave DFH scouting movement in the UK. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodcraft_Folk
Dunno. From the pic, it looks like they just don’t care?
I think wingnuts, with their all-or-nothing mentality and their periodic purges of anything they see as “moderate,” have so thoroughly radicalized the base that no, there’s not really such a thing anymore. At some point, you either face the fact that your side of the aisle is run by fucking madmen and jump ship (either for the Dems or for some apathetic or third party/Paultard nonsense), or you decide that yeah, they’re right about this and all this radicalization must be the Dems’ fault, after all they’re the bad guys, and jump in with both feet.
Anyone who’s put any thought into their politics and still supports Republicans is to some extent delusional or ill-intentioned.
@Hal: ” truth all the while wondering if Obama will actually give up the presidency in 2016.”
Time for a wager. Of course, make sure he will give it up in 2017, you would lose on 2016.
You can tell which one of those kids is confused and thinks they’re doing the Hunger Games.
I’d like to point out to the Trail Scouts that the US Congress provides a charter endorsing the BSA to provide citizenship training, but not to them. That the federal, state and local government provide subsidies in the form of tax deductions, assistance of government workers and virtually free rental of public property to the BSA, not to them. That teachers help recruit for BSA membership during school hours, but not for them.
Things might look a little different now that some discrimination* is no longer endorsed by our government.
*Atheists still not being allowed in Boy Scouts. No help from Disney, United Way, US government, etc.
When salt is no longer salty, I vote they have their Trail Scout Jamboree in the Himalayas so they can stock up.
@trollhattan: Doesn’t Tibet have enough problems already?
Looking at “Ein Volk, Ein Reich >> Balloon Juice” in my window tab.
I think not!
I remember singing Taps both with my brother’s cub scout pack and various girl scout troops. I do not remember any hand waving movements, just that at the end we saluted, crisply. This being the 1950s and 1960s, that salute was a hand at the right eye and then movement away from the face and down.
Certified Mutant Enemy
I remember conservatives wondering whether Clinton would give up the Presidency in 2001…
@Certified Mutant Enemy:
And some Democrats wondering if Bush would give up the Presidency in 2008 …
I find it comforting to reflect approximately 33% of Americans are idiots.
When the Reverend Bellamy (a socialist, BTW) wrote the Pledge of Allegiance, he did not include the words “under god”. They were added in the 1950s to counter the godless communists.
@Certified Mutant Enemy: it’s always projection with those assholes, always.
When I see people who are so insecure they have to shout their ‘values’ I see future headlines a la Jerry Sandusky with this org.
@Anoniminous: As much as I not to assume individual people are idiots, 33% is VERY low.
ETA: Edited to sound better.
There’s the Spiral Scouts.
@Anoniminous: Key difference. Dems yield the Presidency because that’s what the law says. Teahadists yield the pResidency because they can’t imagine anyone not voting to keep them in power until the election’s over and it’s far too late to rig the results.
Shrub (of all the recent crowd) had two defensible reasons for suspending normal procedures: two ugly military campaigns and the GWoT in ’04, and fiscal calamity in ’08. The electorate would have howled, but based on either situation a State of Emergency could have been proposed without being laughed off camera.
@SuperHrefna: Not that I’m aware of. There’s 4H, which at least in the San Francisco Bay Area isn’t just about farming. I’ll check out @Origuy‘s link as well.
But I thought the gays and the Nazis were allies? That’ll teach me to read RT and RIA Novosti at the same time.
@kindness: THIS is why I want to see the GOTea pResidential convention in Kansas City. Nothing like the full-blown freak show to make the “values” voter run screaming.
@Origuy: “There’s the Spiral Scouts.”
Aren’t those mentioned in Welcome to Nightvale?
@mdblanche: Rand was an atheist, and she took SS disability. It’s a lot like peanut butter and chocolate. You don’t hate peanut butter and chocolate, do you? ARE YOU NOT AMERICAN?!!
It’s fun to stay at the YMCA camp!
@Chris: The Nazi salute is pretty much the ancient Roman salute, appropriated by Hitler much like the swastika.
@Mnemosyne: Supposedly there are people who swear they remember hearing the song sung at real Nazi rallies back in the day. Kandler and Ebb managed to write something authentic sounding enough to fool more than a few people.
There’s also the Boys and Girls Clubs.
Jesus Fucking Christ on a stick, these people are pathetic enough without lying about them. The photographer totally Godwined the story. If you read the caption on the linked source, the boys are moving their arms while singing Taps (probably to show the setting sun). Yes, it’s a funny cheap shot, but it’s still a cheap shot and the official scout salute (also pictured) is completely different.
Now that’s silly. After all, he was elected to the Presidency fairly, and he would have to give up the…
Ah, I think I see the problem.
@Chris: I think the Boy Scout’s current policy is their Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. It’s better than their old policy, it’s still not good enough, and sooner or later they’ll
stop hitting themselvesfinish evolving.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Kander and Ebb used part of a German folksong for the melody or something — it’s a pretty common thing to do (see also, our national anthem). But considering that all of the lyrics are in English …
@catclub: I earned my Eternal Scout patch ( by buying it from Topatoco, but still :-)
I set the percentage low because I am having unwonted feelings of sympathy and benevolence towards my fellow countrymen.
Naturally I’d like this feeling to evaporate as quickly as possible. (I expect it to happen in about 30 minutes as I’ve got to review some marketing documents which I am sure will have no connection whatsoever to Reality.) But while it exists I’m just high on Life and America.
There was never, ever, any Real World chance of a Bush coup d’etat.
@Rob in CT: Yep, that would be my experience. They are victims.
There are lyrics to “Taps”?
“Look, Dad, my brown shirt finally arrived!”
Slogan. They need a slogan.
With their usual penchant for verbal missteps, perhaps
“Treasure Trail Life.”
@SatanicPanic: “Patriot” is right up.
@Steeplejack: Yes, there are lyrics to Taps.
Day is done, gone the sun
From the lakes, from the hills, from the sky
All is well, safely rest
God is nigh.
Fading light dims the sight
And a star gems the sky, gleaming bright
From afar, drawing near
Falls the night.
Thanks and praise for our days
Neath the sun, neath the stars, neath the sky
As we go, this we know
God is nigh.
WEST VIRGINIA STATE BOARD OF EDUCATION ET AL. v. BARNETTE ET AL., 319 U.S. 624
….The Board of Education on January 9, 1942, adopted a resolution containing recitals taken largely from the Court’s Gobitis opinion and ordering that the salute to the flag become ‘a regular part of the program of activities in the public schools,’ that all teachers and pupils ‘shall be required to participate in the salute honoring the Nation represented by the Flag; provided, however, that refusal to salute the Flag be regarded as an Act of insubordination, and shall be dealt with accordingly.’ 2 [319 U.S. 624, 627] The resolution originally required the ‘commonly accepted salute to the Flag’ which it defined. Objections to the salute as ‘being too much like Hitler’s’ were raised by the Parent and Teachers Association, the Boy and Girl [319 U.S. 624, 628] Scouts, the Red Cross, and the Federation of Women’s Clubs. 3 Some modification appears to have been made in deference to these objections, but no concession was made to Jehovah’s Witnesses. 4 What is now required is the ‘stiff-arm’ salute, the saluter to keep the right hand raised with palm turned up while the following is repeated: ‘I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of [319 U.S. 624, 629] America and to the Republic for which it stands; one Nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.’…
“Under god” was added in the 1950s (by our “founding fathers” if you believe Evita Mooselini).
Instead of cookies, maybe they could fund raise by selling strudel?
Make troop leaders recognizable by unique socks – ‘leaderhosen?’
Another Holocene Human
Right, so I googled Bellamy Salute and based on what wikipedia states (I know, I know), it seems to me on first blush that anyone digging the Bellamy Salute out of its grave has white supremacy/Nazi sympathies on the brain prima facie.
Another Holocene Human
@NotMax: Hosen are actually pants but, like, bqwhatevr.
Mayhap you were thinking of special Austrian Schtrumpfen, known in the US as Smurfs thanks to a cheeky Belgian who found Volkstracht er… comical.
@Another Holocene Human
Yeah, I know, but it was a play on the word ‘hose’ which is sometimes used for ‘stockings.’
Hey, they can’t all be gems. :)
I later vaguely remembered the first line, but as a veteran Boy Scout (Troop 280, Laughlin AFB, TX, yo!) I don’t remember us ever singing anything—well, at least not anything serious and/or official. On our interminable truck rides to whatever campground or wilderness area we were going to lay waste we could do a rousing “99 Bottles of Beer” and some cadence-count call-and-response things (from our military heritage, probably). But no neo-Nazi salutes. That was right out.
@mdblanche: The problem is they have openly gay scouts becoming Eagle Scouts and then having to leave the organization completely. Don’t Ask Don’t Tell for the leadership means omitting any gay scouts that want to become leaders. I think I saw an article about a gay Eagle Scout who is basically being told to go the fuck away now that he’s achieved that level.
The Other Chuck
There’s lyrics to “Taps” about as much as there are lyrics to “Revielle”. Or the Star Wars theme. Someone invented ’em after the fact, and they’re godawful.
…the second thing I noticed just after the NAZI SALUTE is that there’s a black kid doing it.
No, seriously. O.o
This is admittedly more unsettling than the Bucs’ hideously bad new uniforms.
@Rob in CT: Then what he really needs to do is quit his job, go to work for, say, WalMart & cut himself in on some of that “luxury”. He, too, can know the delights of ramen every day for the last week of the month or having all those wonderful free phone minutes used up 3 days after you get them because you had to call the doctor or the VA or Social Services a couple of times & got put on hold.
@Hal: No, he won’t give up the presidency in 2016. He will wait until January of 2017.
@Tommy: “I am 44. I am a huge hiker, camper, walker. I learned that through the Boy Scots.”
Not me, I’m 55, and (this being b4 the wingnuts took over) couldn’t wait to join the scouts
Read my dad’s scout handbook from the 30’s, and my brother’s from the 50’s
Couldn’t wait till the scouts turned me into Natty Bumpo
1st meeting was in the school gym – collect dues, put away the chairs, play basketball
2nd meeting ditto
Next 3 meetings ditto
Then I quit
@JPS: Whoever used the image to imply in the first place (and knew better) that this represented a routine pledge situation, did a disservice to us all. This is Brietbart level, imho.
Oh Bull Shit
There is no part of “Taps” that involves a Nazi salute
and if you put one in during “Taps” it is somehow better then doing it while “Reciting the organization’s creed”?
Oh, for crying out loud! It’s a still photo capturing an arm movement (think ‘setting sun’ maybe?). A clever photographer could probably capture the same thing at a Rockets performance or your kid’s Thanksgiving school program. The organizers of Trail Life and the participating parents are cretins but I don’t think it’s worth going Godwin over.
“A clever photographer could probably capture the same thing at a Rockets performance or your kid’s Thanksgiving school program”
Yeah? Maybe, like the picture of Netanyahu giving Merkel a shadow Hitler mustache
But not during the playing of “Taps” that I ever saw – there is no “outstretched arm meaning the setting sun” involved, or anything remotely like it
@The Other Chuck:
Ah, Star Wars
If they shoot par wars
Please let these Star Wars
@Belafon: last I checked the crazification factor was 27%. Going off John Roger’s groundbreaking research.
Paul in KY
@SuperHrefna: They were supposedly moving their arms around. If I were them, I wouldn’t have them do that anymore. Maybe, for the sad-sacks this would appeal to, giving the Nazi salute is a feature?
Paul in KY
@NotMax: How about ‘UnterHomen Raus!’