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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Open thread

Open thread

by DougJ|  March 18, 20144:12 pm| 94 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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The opposite of liberalism is not conservatism, it’s centrism. Discuss.

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Reader Interactions

94Comments

  1. 1.

    Belafon

    March 18, 2014 at 4:15 pm

    I see the great statesman actor Kevin Sorbo has spoken. We have surely been blessed by his guidance and wisdom.

  2. 2.

    Hawes

    March 18, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    The opposite of liberalism is being reactionary.

  3. 3.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 18, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    Centrists is what fiscal conservatives like to call themselves.

  4. 4.

    dmsilev

    March 18, 2014 at 4:18 pm

    @Belafon: And the renowned foreign policy guru Mitt Romney has also weighed in.

  5. 5.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 18, 2014 at 4:19 pm

    Dish Update: I went to the Dish to check the color of its header.
    -AS is on vacation, again.
    -His fees fees are hurt because Krugman called his blue eyed boy a racist
    -He is defending Charles Murray, again.

    Conclusion: I hadn’t missed much despite not checking his blog for months.

  6. 6.

    Bob In Portland

    March 18, 2014 at 4:20 pm

    The opposite of liberalism is fascism. At least according to Mussolini.

  7. 7.

    DougJ

    March 18, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I also haven’t checked in months. I admire Sullivan’s (or his staff’s) work ethic, but the whole thing just became too predictable for me, as your update indicates.

  8. 8.

    Ash Can

    March 18, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    lolwut

  9. 9.

    Amir Khalid

    March 18, 2014 at 4:22 pm

    @Belafon:
    Well, we’ve heard from Courtney Love, Rupert Murdoch, Oliver North, and now Kevin Sorbo. What are the Kardashians waiting for?

    I just realised I’ve confused two different topics, but I don’t care.

  10. 10.

    DougJ

    March 18, 2014 at 4:23 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    I feel bad for Patrick Appel and Chris Bodenner, still working there. Even young Conor found a better gig.

    Now that he’s on vacay might be a good time to bombard them with emails to see if they’ll nominate someone here for a Moore award.

  11. 11.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 18, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    @Bob In Portland: WTF did Mussolini know about anything? I mean, he only founded fascism…

  12. 12.

    Roger Moore

    March 18, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    I thought Cleek’s law guaranteed that conservatism is the exact opposite of liberalism.

  13. 13.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 18, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    What are the Kardashians waiting for?

    Check to clear.

  14. 14.

    David Hunt

    March 18, 2014 at 4:25 pm

    And the opposite of conservatism is sanity.

  15. 15.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 18, 2014 at 4:26 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Defending Charles Murray, in a just universe, would put you in front of a death panel faster than you can say Captain Jack Sparrow.

  16. 16.

    BGinCHI

    March 18, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    The opposite of 21st-century conservatism is sanity with a side of empathy.

  17. 17.

    Violet

    March 18, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    And of cousre liberalism is BOOGA BOOGA scary Muslim Commie black man in the White House soshulism black men coming to get your white wimmins FEMA re-education camps forced gay marriage abortionplexes and not supporting the troops. And health insurance. Terrifying.

  18. 18.

    David Fud

    March 18, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    In the sense that centrists basically want no change, liberals want a future golden age and conservatives want to return to an imaginary past golden age, yes, centrists are the opposite.

  19. 19.

    Bob In Portland

    March 18, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Around 1990 I was sitting around my union office and looked through two different editions of the American Heritage Dictionary. The definition of fascism changed. Most curious. The newer definition dropped the whole corporatism thing.

  20. 20.

    Mandalay

    March 18, 2014 at 4:32 pm

    @DougJ:

    but the whole thing just became too predictable for me

    Heh. The greatest thing about Sullivan’s web site for me (more than almost any other web site) is that you really cannot predict what will be there. Just steer clear of his Its-All-About-Me posts and it’s fine. Recent topics:
    – The Poisons In Our Pantry
    – The Wear And Tear Of Police Work
    – The Whiteness Of Poverty
    – Busting The For-Profit College Racket
    – Sanctions For Sanctions’ Sake

    It’s BJ that’s entirely predictable, though that is not meant disparagingly.

  21. 21.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 18, 2014 at 4:34 pm

    @Bob In Portland: Mussolini himself said a better name for Fascism is Corporatism.

    Well, into the memory hole for that!

  22. 22.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 18, 2014 at 4:35 pm

    @David Fud: Centrists have the gold now and don’t want to part with it, basically.

  23. 23.

    ranchandsyrup

    March 18, 2014 at 4:35 pm

    Liberalism is the opposite of what the love child of Zombie Reagan and Free Market Jesus riding a T-Rex would want. No updates necessary.

  24. 24.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 18, 2014 at 4:38 pm

    On an unrelated note, these autoplay ads need to die a thousand deaths.

  25. 25.

    Southern Beale

    March 18, 2014 at 4:41 pm

    How to turn a fluff piece about the White House pastry chef embracing FLOTUS’ health initiatives into a lie-filled anti-Obama smear. It takes talent, people, it really does!

  26. 26.

    Neldob

    March 18, 2014 at 4:42 pm

    but liberalism is centrism. So it’s also its opposite? Well muddied waters made muddier. Good work!

  27. 27.

    Southern Beale

    March 18, 2014 at 4:42 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Co-sign that. You’d think someone would invent an app for that.

  28. 28.

    Mandalay

    March 18, 2014 at 4:48 pm

    @Bob In Portland: This is how they currently define it:

    A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, a capitalist economy subject to stringent governmental controls, violent suppression of the opposition, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

    Which sounds about right to me – Fascism allows the private sector to do whatever it wants, and will even collude with it, as long as it meets with the State’s approval.

    We have a different system here: The private sector allows the government to do whatever it wants as long as it meets with the approval of the one percenters.

  29. 29.

    pacem appellant

    March 18, 2014 at 4:48 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: A poster here pointed me to Stylish, a Chrome plugin, and then directed me to install “Balloon Juice Light” as a style. Since then, this website runs clean and smooth and noise-free.

  30. 30.

    pacem appellant

    March 18, 2014 at 4:48 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: A poster here pointed me to Stylish, a Chrome plugin, and then directed me to install “Balloon Juice Light” as a style. Since then, this website runs clean and smooth and noise-free.

  31. 31.

    bemused

    March 18, 2014 at 4:49 pm

    @Southern Beale:

    Ugh, Marsha Blackburn is one of the worst Republican women ever.

  32. 32.

    Felonius Monk

    March 18, 2014 at 4:52 pm

    Does this now mean that the opposite of Up is not Down, but rather Sideways?

  33. 33.

    cleek

    March 18, 2014 at 4:55 pm

    centrists are happy to enact liberal policies but only where it can be done conservatively.

    it would be fine if we could have better roads and bridges, but gosh darn it, that would be just too expensive given all the things your parents bought and didn’t yet pay for. maybe next year.

  34. 34.

    ? Martin

    March 18, 2014 at 4:56 pm

    @pacem appellant: You’re welcome. That’s my work.

  35. 35.

    taylormattd

    March 18, 2014 at 5:00 pm

    I don’t think it is. Although I don’t know. The problem is “centrism” is a completely meaningless term, especially in the left blogosphere.

    I realize you are likely using “centrism” as a proxy for all of that horrifying David Broder / Thomas Friedman / Evan Bayh / Third Way bullshit. But frankly, when people on allegedly left blogs call others “centrist” they are usually trying to insult another lefty by using the word as a proxy for “kind of republican.”

  36. 36.

    Suffern ACE

    March 18, 2014 at 5:01 pm

    @Southern Beale: I like the comment you pulled out about how everytime he or she sees the first lady, she’s stuffing her face. I guess that’s another one of those liberal press cover ups. She might be walking around the white house with a bag of egg rolls in one hand and a dozen donuts in the other, but do they ever let us see those photos?

  37. 37.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 18, 2014 at 5:01 pm

    Thread needs kitteh, from Soviet Rushya.

  38. 38.

    Roger Moore

    March 18, 2014 at 5:01 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:
    You should try something like Flashblock. I don’t know if there’s a version for Chrome, but the version for Firefox has saved me from a whole host of evils. It apparently even blocks the to*na*l f*ngus ads that drive everyone else nuts.

  39. 39.

    cmorenc

    March 18, 2014 at 5:01 pm

    @DougJ:

    The opposite of liberalism is not conservatism, it’s centrism. Discuss.

    It’s not a binary distinction…a better analogy would be that liberalism, centrism, and conservatism are three respective apexes of an ideological triangle. Except that the centers-of-mass of some ideological dispositions aren’t necessarily inside the triangle, but outside one of the edges, i.e. some politicians are a mix of conservatism and centrism, but nevertheless on the whole are farther from having many (or any) liberal tendencies than they are to either the conservative or centrist apex. Some chamber-of-commerce republicans would be examples of this. Likewise, Rand Paul’s partial social libertarianism e.g. on marijuana (though not obviously abortion), is outside the triangle, between liberal and conservative, but he’s further away from centrism than he is to either conservatism or liberalism. Bill Clinton, OTOH is a great example of a politician who is somewhere *inside* the triangle, much closer to the liberal and centrist apexes than the conservative, but nevertheless in some respects his triangulation approach while in office creeps toward the conservative side, not away from it.

  40. 40.

    dmsilev

    March 18, 2014 at 5:05 pm

    @Roger Moore: For the Mac users, the ClickToFlash Safari extension works very well.

  41. 41.

    p.a.

    March 18, 2014 at 5:16 pm

    @Felonius Monk: I haven’t seen Down. Who’s in it, or is it CGI?

  42. 42.

    Southern Beale

    March 18, 2014 at 5:16 pm

    Just found out the White House pastry chef smear started with Frank Luntz. Can’t even believe that he’d stoop that low. From “death taxes” and “right to work” to twisting a person’s quotes in the NY Times to smear the first lady. I’d call that the bottom of the political barrel.

  43. 43.

    Amir Khalid

    March 18, 2014 at 5:17 pm

    @Roger Moore:
    Just once, I’d like to actually see that ad. All I ever get is John Cornyn begging me (in Malaysia!) for campaign money.

  44. 44.

    SatanicPanic

    March 18, 2014 at 5:19 pm

    @Southern Beale: The bottom of the political barrel is probably something like the Wingularity- they’ll never reach it.

  45. 45.

    Southern Beale

    March 18, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    @SatanicPanic:

    Just when I think we’ve reached Peak Wingnut we haven’t. The corollary to that is that just when you think they’ve gone as low as it gets, we find a new bottom.

    Sorta like the “inflation” echo thingie they found confirming the Big Bang.

  46. 46.

    Roger Moore

    March 18, 2014 at 5:22 pm

    @Southern Beale:

    I’d call that the bottom of the political barrel.

    I think they’ve scraped through the bottom of the barrel and into the floor. Or is it barrels all the way down?

  47. 47.

    Southern Beale

    March 18, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    OH MY GOD THERE IS NO BOTTOM!! THERE IS NO BOTTOM!!!!

    Aaaaagh!!!

  48. 48.

    p.a.

    March 18, 2014 at 5:27 pm

    @cmorenc: pretty good analysis. Maybe Venn rather than triangle. Snark: the opposite of liberalism is BlueDog-ism. Clintonism (and I think Hilary will show this) is a liberal version of BlueDog-ism. Remember “Bill Clinton was the best Republican president of our lifetime”?

  49. 49.

    Calouste

    March 18, 2014 at 5:30 pm

    @David Fud:

    Strictly speaking, it’s conservatives that don’t want change, and reactionaries that want to return to the past. Although of course no one really wants to call themselves a “reactionary”, so they call themselves “conservative” instead.

  50. 50.

    Southern Beale

    March 18, 2014 at 5:31 pm

    @Calouste:

    These days the kewl kids are calling themselves “Constitutional conservatives.” I think that means they want to return to 1776, as opposed to the regular conservatives who just want to return to 1956.

  51. 51.

    boatboy_srq

    March 18, 2014 at 5:32 pm

    @Violet: Mustn’t forget the my-Reichwing-501c4-was-audited-by-the-IRS-because-Obamacare-and-Bengazi!!!11!1!

  52. 52.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 18, 2014 at 5:33 pm

    Secret Life of an Internet Troll, Revealed

  53. 53.

    WereBear

    March 18, 2014 at 5:34 pm

    @Southern Beale: Just found out the White House pastry chef smear started with Frank Luntz. Can’t even believe that he’d stoop that low.

    I guess that depression he went through didn’t last long enough.

  54. 54.

    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik

    March 18, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    So, Obama’s candidate for Surgeon General is almost assured to be blocked. Why? Because OMG he said bad things about guns and hurt the NRA’s fee fees!! In other words, the NRA still rules our world and still wins every single battle it wages because our politicians are shit scared of them.

  55. 55.

    WereBear

    March 18, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Just once, I’d like to actually see that ad.

    No. No, you REALLY don’t.

  56. 56.

    Mike in NC

    March 18, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    @Southern Beale: Luntz a scumbag? Who could’ve imagined!

  57. 57.

    Southern Beale

    March 18, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    There’s a cat named Alexandria inviting all of us bloggers to blog for them. I got one of those comments too but my Spam filter nabbed it for me. Just thought I’d mention it.

  58. 58.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 18, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    @WereBear: His bank account got depressed too, so he’s back, since an election is approaching.

  59. 59.

    Southern Beale

    March 18, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    @WereBear:

    I think he’s still the Loneliest Man In Politics. I find it deeply bizarre that the once high-powered Republican political strategist has resorted to twisting New York Times quotes into a FLOTUS smear on Twitter. Can’t be much pay in that (see schrodinger’s link).

    So easy even a cat can do it.

  60. 60.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 18, 2014 at 5:40 pm

    @Southern Beale: That comment was in my moderation queue too, I released it but I have no intention of going to Egypt. Just out of curiosity I checked the blog, the posts on there had a ratio of about 80% wingnut to 20% sane.

  61. 61.

    Bobby Thomson

    March 18, 2014 at 5:40 pm

    @taylormattd:

    I realize you are likely using “centrism” as a proxy for all of that horrifying David Broder / Thomas Friedman / Evan Bayh / Third Way bullshit. But frankly, when people on allegedly left blogs call others “centrist” they are usually trying to insult another lefty by using the word as a proxy for “kind of republican.”

    What’s the difference? Serious question.

  62. 62.

    Roger Moore

    March 18, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    @Southern Beale:

    I think that means they want to return to 1776, as opposed to the regular conservatives who just want to return to 1956 1858.

    FTFY.

  63. 63.

    boatboy_srq

    March 18, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    @Calouste: And in case anyone thinks this is a recent phenomenon:

    Of course you will pooh-pooh
    Whatever’s fresh and new
    And declare it’s crude and mean;
    For art stopped short
    In the cultivated court
    Of the Empress Josephine!

  64. 64.

    FlipYrWhig

    March 18, 2014 at 5:43 pm

    “Centrism” isn’t an -ism except by accident. People who call themselves “centrists” mean that they care about helping everyday people but also want businesses to prosper and for taxes to be low but also they don’t act showy with holy books. Most of that used to be called “conservative” until the people calling _themselves_ “conservative” started using that label to mean standing up for the privileges of straight white people and smiting enemies within and abroad. Even Edmund Burke, conservative icon, for fuck’s sake, went on and on and on about compassion and interdependence, and would probably be pilloried as a homo by your Eric Ericksons and Sean Hannities and whatnot.

    Ergo liberalism and conservatism are opposites still, but the people who call themselves “conservatives” aren’t conservatives by the customary pre-Goldwater, pre-Reagan definitions, and the people who call themselves “centrists” are.

    Or to put it another way, conservatives think the government should implement conservative policies, but “conservatives” think the government should just burn down, except for a few huge divisions of soldiers to intimidate the wussier countries. Until recently I’d’ve said that conservatives would also believe in cops, but they don’t even want them around anymore, apparently being content with “law” “enforcement” by vigilantes and lynch mobs.

  65. 65.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 18, 2014 at 5:44 pm

    @Southern Beale: Kittehs have more integrity in their single pointeh end than Luntz has in his entire body.

  66. 66.

    schrodinger's cat

    March 18, 2014 at 5:45 pm

    @Southern Beale: Actually, don’t some religious conservatives want to go back to the Dark Ages?

  67. 67.

    Violet

    March 18, 2014 at 5:46 pm

    @Southern Beale:

    Just found out the White House pastry chef smear started with Frank Luntz. Can’t even believe that he’d stoop that low.

    Why not? He’s done nothing to suggest otherwise. However low you can imagine he’d stoop or crawl or slither, he can always go lower.

  68. 68.

    FlipYrWhig

    March 18, 2014 at 5:49 pm

    BTW my mom, once a fairly active hippie type, throughout my youth used the word “conservative” as an insult essentially synonymous with “square.” Short hair, button-down shirt, listens to neither rock nor roll let alone the two at once, etc.

  69. 69.

    different-church-lady

    March 18, 2014 at 5:49 pm

    @taylormattd:

    But frankly, when people on allegedly left blogs call others “centrist” they are usually trying to insult another lefty by using the word as a proxy for “kind of republican.” “betrayer of my fantasies for revolution.”

  70. 70.

    raven

    March 18, 2014 at 5:50 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Brown shoes don’t make it

  71. 71.

    taylormattd

    March 18, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    @Bobby Thomson: I don’t know. Maybe you are right.

  72. 72.

    FlipYrWhig

    March 18, 2014 at 5:53 pm

    @raven: Ha, didn’t know that one, but sounds about right. “Loyal plastic robot” indeed.

  73. 73.

    raven

    March 18, 2014 at 5:58 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: One of those albums I have committed to memory.

  74. 74.

    Gex

    March 18, 2014 at 6:03 pm

    @DougJ: A while ago Cole posted something on Facebook he got from Sully’s blog. And it was something from an Internet aggregator that had gone viral a week earlier. It just cracks me up that people are paying Sullivan to read a blog where he regurgitates week old content he got from a free site that his readers, if they had any size social circle on Facebook would have seen days before it hit his site. Plus content written by interns.

  75. 75.

    Archon

    March 18, 2014 at 6:07 pm

    In practice I would say liberalism (especially American progressivism) is staunchly anti-Fascist. Post WWII liberalism is also staunchly anti-communist too.

    I personally base my liberalism more on political and democratic ideals then economic ones. To that end the opposite of liberalism in my opinion is totalitarianism, whether it’s the Nazi kind, Chinese kind or Cuban kind matters little conceptually.

  76. 76.

    Just One More Canuck

    March 18, 2014 at 6:08 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: sun comes up, sun goes down

  77. 77.

    MikeJ

    March 18, 2014 at 6:25 pm

    @? Martin: Great. Can you restrict it to this site instead of making it global? The @-moz-document rules don’t work on chrome.

  78. 78.

    Joe Buck

    March 18, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    The current definition of “centrist” is “whatever rich people want”. Most rich people don’t care about the delusions of the religious right, and most aren’t bigots. But they care about their investments, don’t like taxes and want the best return on their money. So they are fiscally conservative and socially liberal, but these both fall out of the fact that they are thinking of their own interests.

    An alternative definition of “centrist” might be someone who holds roughly the median position on most controversial issues. But by this definition, the idea of cutting Social Security or other entitlements would hardly be centrist.

  79. 79.

    Trollhattan

    March 18, 2014 at 6:57 pm

    Some Kentucky gun-fondler needs his ass kicked.

    UC Davis veterinarians hope to partially reconstruct the jaw of a Kentucky collie that was shot in the muzzle. Lad was delivered Monday to the UC Davis’ veterinary teaching hospital by The Arrow Fund, a group that provides medical treatment for animals that are victims of torture, abuse or neglect.

    An investigation is underway to find who shot the 9-month-old collie, according to the Kentucky-based Arrow Fund. The Arrow Fund acquired the dog on Feb. 10, about six days after the shooting. His wound was badly infected and he appeared near death, according to a UC Davis press release.

    He was taken to Blue Pearl Veterinary in Louisville for emergency veterinary treatment where he received care from specialists. After his transfer to UC Davis, doctors determined that he was in general good health.

    His lower jaw has three teeth on one side and two teeth on the other side. Plans are for one or more surgeries in 10 to 14 days.

    http://www.sacbee.com/2014/03/18/6247965/uc-davis-to-help-kentucky-collie.html#storylink=cpy

  80. 80.

    MikeJ

    March 18, 2014 at 6:58 pm

    @MikeJ: (And BTW, I’m not the person who said the same thing but was very rude about it on userstyles. )

  81. 81.

    Trollhattan

    March 18, 2014 at 7:04 pm

    @Gex:

    “Sully’s intern.” I would so not include that on my resume.

  82. 82.

    Kay

    March 18, 2014 at 7:10 pm

    About 80 senators are expected to attend a dinner discussion at the Capitol tonight with Microsoft founder Bill Gates and the NYT’s David Brooks. The 6:45 p.m. dinner, according to an invitation obtained by Huddle, is sponsored by the No Labels Foundation, and one of that group’s honorary co-chairs, Sen. Joe Manchin, will make opening remarks. So what’s the No Labels-Microsoft connection? No Labels co-founder Nancy Jacobson is married to longtime pollster Mark Penn, executive vice president and chief strategy officer at Microsoft, said a source who will be attending the event.

    A billionaire, David Brooks, No Labels and Mark Penn. Is this a laser-like focus on the middle class?

    I don’t know. It may be hopeless. It’s like they’re trying to make me sad. And lose. They want to lose. They have a death wish.

  83. 83.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 18, 2014 at 7:11 pm

    @pacem appellant: Working like a charm, it is!

  84. 84.

    Villago Delenda Est

    March 18, 2014 at 7:14 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat: Michelle Bachmann has said that the Renaissance was “a mistake.”

  85. 85.

    ? Martin

    March 18, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    @MikeJ: Let me look into that.

  86. 86.

    mclaren

    March 18, 2014 at 8:29 pm

    No, the opposite of liberalism is cats.

    Who is Nebraska? What is the square root of yellow? Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?

  87. 87.

    mclaren

    March 18, 2014 at 8:43 pm

    Turkey has decided to troll both America and Russia by announcing that under the Ottoman Empire treaty with Catherine the Great, if the Crimea declares independence from Russia, it returns to Turkey.

    LOL!

  88. 88.

    Cervantes

    March 18, 2014 at 9:31 pm

    @Southern Beale:

    Just found out the White House pastry chef smear started with Frank Luntz. Can’t even believe that he’d stoop that low. From “death taxes” and “right to work” to twisting a person’s quotes in the NY Times to smear the first lady. I’d call that the bottom of the political barrel.

    I saw Howley’s article. What’s the connection to Luntz? (Thanks.)

  89. 89.

    Ian

    March 18, 2014 at 10:10 pm

    @schrodinger’s cat:
    I would guess that given his importance to Republican electoral chances, each and every single one of his dirty secrets is kept in a secured safe. If Luntz fails to perform, a folder gets released to the hungry wolves.

  90. 90.

    the Conster

    March 18, 2014 at 10:27 pm

    @Kay:

    OMG, Ugh!!! I want Sherrod Brown. Can he be recruited?

  91. 91.

    Kay

    March 18, 2014 at 10:52 pm

    @the Conster:

    Well, I disagree. He just got re-elected and he’s a great senator. He should stay where he is.

    What about the Democrats, though? I have to admit I didn’t see this brilliant counterintuitive midterm strategy coming, where they’re running as the Party for Plutocrats.

    Ladders of Opportunity was bad enough. This is worse.

  92. 92.

    Kay

    March 18, 2014 at 11:00 pm

    @the Conster:

    I think Manchin has a kind of exalted opinion of himself, like he’s the commonsense leader who can bridge gaps. I’m not so worried about Republicans if Republicans take the Senate. I’m worried about Democrats joining with Republicans.

    That will happen.

  93. 93.

    David Koch

    March 19, 2014 at 5:02 am

    @Kay:

    No Labels co-founder Nancy Jacobson is married to longtime pollster Mark Penn,

    These PUMAs are something else. Obama salvages Hillary’s career, lifting her out of the toxic snake pit of the Senate, making her Secretary of State, which catapults her to a level of popularity and respect she never reached before.

    But nothing is good enough for them. They still act like the whinny, petty, sore losers they are.

  94. 94.

    Ben Cisco

    March 19, 2014 at 7:29 am

    @schrodinger’s cat:

    Conclusion: I hadn’t missed much despite not checking his blog for months.

    This could have been predicted.

    Also, your results should serve as a guide going forward.

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