.@Johngcole @cody_k See, I'm way more concerned about corporations (without oversight) having my personal data. Question is: why aren't you?
— Bob Cesca (@bobcesca_go) March 25, 2014
Obama to Propose the Privatization of NSA’s Metadata Collection Program http://t.co/lsrCzAFg2w #p2 #tcot #Snowden @thedailybanter
— Bob Cesca (@bobcesca_go) March 25, 2014
The contortions people must go through.
I think my favorite thing about this is those are tweets from, you know, a private company, and then I found the link to his post about Obama privatizing (in the second tweet) through my… facebook feed, with their awesome record of privacy.
Baud
Jesus H. Christ. Who cares? It looks like we’re heading towards good result here. Everybody should be happy right now.
askew
Yeah, you are just digging to find something to bitch about there. You can think Obama’s reforms are a good thing and still care more about corporations having your data. Not a contortion at all.
Turgidson
If we want to talk about a “bullshit parade,” I’d say Greenwald’s “the NSA is WATCHING YOU RIGHT NOW ZOMG OBAMA DEAR LEADER” style of reporting is the star of that parade in a walk. Just my opinion. But Cesca thinks there’s no difference between an 18-month metadata storage period and a 5-year period? That seems…like bullshit. He has a point that there’s no reason to think telecoms are any more trustworthy with private data than the government, though. If the choice is between companies having it for 18 months or the NSA having it for 5 years, I’ll take the former. Which is what Obama is proposing, so that works for me.
The “he told me about Obama privatizing via a private company” remark smacks of “Al Gore flew in a plane, so he should shut up about global warming” though.
max
See, I’m way more concerned about corporations (without oversight) having my personal data. Question is: why aren’t you?
A Noun! A Verb! And
Nine One One!SELFIES!The contortions people must go through.
Cesca and Greenwald deserve each other.
max
[‘They would be good for a pretty good Star Trek episode remake.’]
chopper
@Baud:
we’re democrats. the jewish mothers of politics.
SiubhanDuinne
Bloody godsdamned WaPo.
The headline and summary were enough to make me grind my teeth. I did not, and will not, click through to the story.
Baud
@chopper:
Well, then, none of you are eating enough. You’re all wasting away!
ETA: And when is Cole going to get married.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I despise Glenn Greenwald
Somebody remind me who Bob Cesca is?
I think Obama’s reforms don’t go far enough
I still think Obama’s easily the best president of my lifetime.
Bobby Thomson
@askew: Except that the reforms directly result in corporations – which are not even nominally subject to the democratic process – having more control over the data.
Bobby Thomson
@SiubhanDuinne: Don’t shoot the messenger. Being discussed a few threads down.
Baud
@Bobby Thomson:
What are you talking about?
Cassidy
Well hell. If corporations get our information for nothing, how are we gonna get free shipping? Thanks Obama.
chopper
replying to someone on twitter while referring to them in the third person reeks of douche, if you ask me.
kc
@chopper:
Not really. The “why aren’t you” in Cesca’s Tweet was pretty douchey.
Baud
@Bobby Thomson:
Never mind. I see that it was Cesca who got his facts wrong. Or I’m wrong. But at least I understand the source of the confusion.
LT
@Baud: “What are you talking about?”
It’s called “making shit up,” wholly, completely, dumbly, desperately.
White Trash Liberal
Ok, so there’s a real story about reforms the president made, but you are on Twitter being a petty dick weasel.
And aren’t you one of the hobos riding the train of the story isn’t about Greenwald? Yet here you are enabling the very tendency to make that guy the center of attention.
The float I see in the bullshit parade is yours, made out of pieces of hypocrite.
chopper
@kc:
yeah, really. talking at someone while referring to them in the third person is pretty douchey. you’re likely to get a douchey or snide response.
geg6
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yeah, that’s kinda where I fall. I really don’t want anyone storing my personal communications, whether corporations or government. This is a step in the right direction, but I’m one who trusts the NSA more than I trust Google or AT&T. That is, I don’t trust any of them but I trust corporations much, much less.
Elizabelle
Well this is pretty early in the evening for you to be commenting, Mr. Cole.
Even though it is your blog.
Got snow?
Did you buy the car?
Turgidson
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Seconded.
kc
@chopper:
It looked to me like the other guy was a douche first, but I could be wrong. Twitter’s hard to follow sometimes (for me, anyway).
kc
@chopper:
It looked to me like the other guy was a douche first, but I could be wrong. Twitter’s hard to follow sometimes (for me, anyway).
Baud
What is everyone talking about? I don’t trust corporations either, but this was all corporate information to begin with. Corporations transferred their metadata to the NSA, mostly (I think) because the corporations didn’t want to store it for 5 years and the NSA did. Now the corporations will just hold on to their data which was theirs to begin with, and the NSA will access it only through court order.
At least that’s my understanding. Am I missing something?
Culture of Truth
If GG supports these changes does that make him knee-jerk supporter in the Obama Cult? No, because he credits himself with discernment he doesn’t give to others.
I’ve long felt this to be the most sensible solution. I mean the phone companies already this information anyway, since they’re the ones who created / compiled it in the first place. Not to mention your local police dept can access this information easily, there still being no expectation of privacy in it.
Howard Beale IV
Since when does Cesca give a flying fuck about free enterprise now all of a sudden having access to all of his data?
Haven’t you been getting Privacy disclosures mailed to you for the past fucking decade you moron? It’s called The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.
Culture of Truth
My opinion comes from careful objective consideration, yours is driven by knee-jerk reaction and hatred.
Anya
@White Trash Liberal: I hate to do this, but fucking THIS!
Thlayli
Here we go again. The most annoying thing about this whole kerfuffle is Cole’s insistence that “Everyone knows Greenwald is right, but some people reflexively attack him because they’re so far up Obama’s butt.”
It’s unpossible to him that anyone could have a substantive argument with GG.
mclaren
Answer is: Because corporations don’t have drones that can blow your ass up with a hellfire missile if the president decides you’re some vague kind of “threat.”
Is this Cesca guy really this stupid? Or is it just an act?
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne:
The Los Angeles Times headline was even worse.
I wonder if they heard the same arguments others did.
Being wrong is not a problem with our modern media masters. Not drawing eyeballs: disaster!
LT
@geg6: “but I’m one who trusts the NSA more than I trust Google or AT&T.”
The profound depth of dumb of views like this – extremely popular here! – just hurts. Comparing the wrongs of corporations – which can do much wrong – to *governments* is a kind of violent and painful ignorance. Just astonishing.
Daniel Ellsberg, just stepping along some stones in this same stream of thought and politics, revealed wrongs about *war*. About death, killing, maiming, and murder, on a massive scale, over a prolonged period of time – years. These are *government* wrongs.
And you Cesca fucktuks do your kindergarten tantrum how corporations are just as bad, and ask us to treat you like serious contenders for the truth in this. Just fuck you.
Mandalay
@John Cole
Indeed. The Administration proposes curbing the power of the NSA, so Cesca decides to go on a rant about the power of private corporations. He doesn’t want to mention that if the proposal succeeds:
– The NSA won’t be routinely collecting your data.
– Phone companies won’t be required to keep the data for any longer than they normally would.
– A new form of court order will be required for the NSA to access that data.
And of course our very own wingnut wackos infest this thread to make it all about Greenwald.
Baud
@Mandalay:
You’re referring to Cole, right? Cuz it’s right there in his post.
SiubhanDuinne
@Bobby Thomson: Yes, thanks. I saw your comments over there.
BGinCHI
Corporations are eroding democratic values at every turn and these people are pissing their pants over privacy.
It’s on the list but it’s not anywhere near the top. Let’s feed some kids and get the fucking rich assholes out of education and also maybe stop wrecking women’s access to healthcare, then we can argue about the intricacies of privacy. Also, too, this is still better than when Hoover was blackmailing everyone.
chopper
@kc:
far as i can tell, john’s came before the one under it, which was in response.
SiubhanDuinne
@Bobby Thomson: Yes, thank you. I saw your comments over there.
les
@Bobby Thomson:
Which might matter, if the corporations did not already have the data. News flash: NSA does not generate data; phone/isp/corporation does. Any limitation (especially the time frame) on NSA is an improvement, because the corps have and store the shit already.
Anya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Totally, agree with you.
I just don’t get why we’re shooting at each other when we have an election to worry about. If the case in front of SCOTUS doesn’t scare us into action, then there’s no hope for our side. If the assholes who attacked Gore and proclaimed both sides to be the same had the foresight to think about the ramification of a republican presidency, we wouldn’t be worrying about bunch of reactionaries deciding women’s right to access contraception.
I know, I am going OT but this just depresses the heck out of me and Cole’s juvenile tweets just made me even more depressed.
guachi
I’d rather the NSA store my data than corporations. But corporations already store it now, so it’s not much of a change. The net effect on the NSA will be minimal. But if it soothes the braying asses on the left and right, fine by me.
Baud
@Anya:
I’m with you.
Mandalay
@LT:
I agree completely, but FWIW I think that some folks here have that view because they are self-centered. They care that Verizon knows about their every visit to a porn site, but don’t give a flying shit about what the NSA is doing as long as they are left alone, because they know that they are not personally planning to blow anything up.
They are blinkered, selfish and foolish.
les
@geg6:
Hells yeah, ’cause Ma Bell might send you an extra ad or spam. While the NSA, under a repub prez, might get your ass sent to Egypt to find out why you made that call. Now you’re ok, unless you like to fly.
Jebus.
Mandalay
@guachi:
You certainly cannot know that, but if the proposal goes through the impact on the NSA will not be minimal. They will have to start playing by the rules.
KG
speaking of clown shoes… this can’t help Mitch McConnell’s re-election bid.
SiubhanDuinne
@Elizabelle: Yes, exactly right. Also, shouldn’t their job today be to report accurately on the arguments and questions, and not throw in their own subjective feelings and guesses? (I would say the same if the headlines were “Justices lean against Hobby Lobby” or “Court likely to rule Obamacare trumps corporate religious beliefs.”)
kc
@chopper:
I looked at the whole thing, and you’re right. I think. Sorry!
guachi
@Mandalay:
No, I’m fairly certain the effect on the NSA will be minimal. They already play by the rules. They will just have to play by new rules.
And I really, really don’t care that the NSA “knows” these things about me (i.e., my phone call metadata) since I’m positive no one at the NSA actually does. That is, no one has actually searched on it.
Russ
Lets get this out there. The “Lie Of The Year” was said when?
2010, so if it was a lie it is 4 years old.
MomSense
@Baud:
Nope, the freakout over metadata is pretty silly actually. It belongs to the corporations that we contract with and isn’t even protected by the 4th amendment.
LT
@guachi:
Making NSA go to a judge to access data would effect the NSA enormously. Which makes your snotty finish even funnier.
Note: There are a lot of other issues here: latimes.com/nation/politics/politicsnow/la-pn-obama-nsa-cellphone-records-20140325,0,4809178.story#i…
LT
@guachi:
Yay, Dems.
chopper
@les:
Ah, the left-wing version of ‘Obama is coming to take our guns and bibles away’.
LT
@Mandalay: “They are blinkered, selfish and foolish.”
Yes, that makes sense.
kc
Cesca’s article says that Obama’s proposal would “force” private companies to maintain data. According to Kevin Drum’s synopsis, they wouldn’t be required to maintain it any longer than they normally would.
Does anyone know which one of them is correct? Under Obama’s proposal, could a company say “We’re only going to maintain these records for 90 days from now on,” would Obama’s proposal prevent that?
chopper
@kc:
I know that cole likes to troll. I didn’t know that cesca ended up on his personal enemies list over the issue tho.
LT
@kc:
As reported so far, Drum is correct. Things could change.
Charlie Savage has got to be considered the authority so far, I think (unless updates have already come?):
nytimes.com/2014/03/25/us/obama-to-seek-nsa-curb-on-call-data.html?_r=0
Chyron HR
I’m shocked, shocked, that a former Republican would keep trotting out the “Greenwald Derangement Syndrome” argument.
muricafukyea
You should stick to posting pictures of your cat and talking about your mid life crisis wr0ng way Cole. Your are just embarassing yourself doubling down on your love for Griftwald and trying to argue with actual adults.
One thing I can guarantee you, if you are putting all your eggs in your Griftwald basket you are going to end up looking really dumb!
srv
Greenwald dudebros and Obama dudebors argue.
I went to the Youtube and entered “dudebro argument” and this is the first hit.
guachi
@LT:
My finish may be snotty, but having to go to a judge will not “effect the NSA enormously”. I haven’t seen any evidence to the contrary. Mostly it’s Americans who seem to believe the NSA is all about spying on Americans when that’s not even close to the truth.
Any target that has significant contact in the US will get a warrant and then the NSA will be home free to search on his metadata. I can’t imagine it’ll be much of a delay. More of an inconvenience while the analyst does something else for a day waiting on the warrant. Oh, noes!
LT
@guachi: Dude, you said the NSA “already play by the rules.” Possibly the wrongest thing possible. Demonstrably. I don’t think you’re dumb, so I think you’re a liar.
Just to be clear: You are a liar.
jamick
since Greenwald has been doing a lot of the Snowden reporting, Cesca and the reactionaries at Little Green Footballs have been having an absolute meltdown the past few months and continuously embarrassing themselves (more than usual).
fun to watch.
srv
OBAMACARE IS A WAR ON DUDE-BROS!
ralphb
@Bobby Thomson:
Not possible since, according to Supreme Court precedent, the telecoms own the call billing metadata now.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Is this really an either/or issue? there should be checks on all government power, and the checks on the NSA need to be strengthened.
And the Koch brothers have and will have a far more direct and dramatic effect on the lives of everyone here than James Clapper and Keith Alexander.
LT
@guachi:
NSA: not following the rules.
NSA: not following the rules.
And before you do the expected assholery fuckery regarding the 2nd link: No. The fact that the NSA found and reported (to themselves) their own wrongdoing does not make those (thousands of) wrongdoings okay.
Donut
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I’m indifferent to Greenwald*, but otherwise agree with you.
* He likes being despised; he craves it, in fact.I think he’d rather be hated than loved, as a matter of fact. He seems to live for confrontation and getting under people’s skin (or I guess it’s more popular these days to say “contrarianism,” whatever the fuck that means). But really, indifference is really the way to go with him. If you despise him, you’re paying attention to him, which is what he wants and needs. If you just don’t give a shit what he’s constantly on about, then he can’t have an impact on you. YMMV.
Cacti
As pitiful as Cole’s brogressive politics can sometimes be, he hasn’t quite reached mistermix territory of hyperventilating about the NSA gathering intel on a Chinese company.
? Martin
@LT: There’s a little bit of deflection in there. The NSA is going to pay the phone companies to store the data as long as the NSA wants. The phone companies will gladly do this as the NSA becomes just another paying customer.
kc
@LT:
Thanks!
LT
Bob Cesca: “Sure, much of NSA’s work takes place in secret…”
Ow.
JustRuss
@les:
This. Also, with corps holding your data, at least it’s siloed in a number of different places. With NSA, it’s all aggregated in one place with no oversight as to who accesses it or how it’s used.
LT
@? Martin:
Link?
something fabulous
@chopper: I hate this metadata! And the portions are so small…
LT
Did you notice Cesca took out his aside next to the NYT link?
thedailybanter.com/2014/03/obama-to-propose-the-privatization-of-nsas-metadata-collection-program/
Mandalay
@guachi:
Thread needs better trolls.
chopper
@JustRuss:
Why send me to Egypt when secret FEMA reeducation camps will do just fine? Saves gas.
Paula
The same corporations that have your information are the ones that build telecommunications infrastructure to help run those multi-front wars and operate those drones.
Obviously, when the govt wanted the information the ones in the US were willing to turn it over.
Not sure what the disconnect is in here.
Also, those whining at front-pagers are aware that you can leave the blog and participate somewhere else, right? Just abandon ship, the detritus of the Accountability Now! PAC need not drown you.
some guy
damn, this level of absolutely willful ignorance is simply stunning.
Nutella
Since Cesca is “way more concerned about corporations (without oversight)” having his personal data he is of course actively working to support laws to prevent that, right? Right?
Or is he just flinging words around to obscure the issue?
EthylEster
@kc: thank you. that’s what i often think as i try to decide what is being say. I find the duplication of info in a char limited medium puzzling. but then, i am not a twit.
ranchandsyrup
It has been an interesting process for me to decouple the message from the messenger on this issue. I realize that this says as much about me as it does about the messenger.
LT
@Nutella:
Cole’s point: he’s so concerned that he’s on FaceBook and Twitter and probably with phone companies and who knows what else.
But it’s all very concerning!
EthylEster
My concern about government knowing this shit is partially related to the chilling effect this has on any attempt of a hypothetical reporter trying to protect his/her sources when investigating the guvmint.
I guess that the effect would also be chilling if the hypothetical reporter was trying to investigate Google and Google had their info but Google doesn’t have its own NSA, FBI, etc. So MUCH less chilling.
There will be no investigative reporting in future if it is not credible to expect a reporter to be able keep an informant’s identity secret.
Cesca is obsessed with GG IMO (a bit like Rachel Maddow is obsessed with Christie or was). I have commented once at his site and IIRC it was in response to a post where he wondered if Greenwald worked for the NSA (or CIA). I wrote that *I* sometimes wondered if he, Cesca worked for the NSA or CIA. one of his minions told me to fuck off, I think.
Citizen_X
The Bullshit Parade includes blogowners trolling their readers, right?
@White Trash Liberal:
New tagline!
sensesfail
@mclaren:
Yeah, because that is certainly a legitimate threat to the average upper-to-middle-class white American who is suddenly so concerned about collection of cellphone meta data. It seems like everyday now that the president is using drones against all those “vague kind of threats”…. It’s perfectly rational and even prudent to spend time and energy worrying about that…
Cassidy
It’s good to know that out long national nightmare that has kept our entitled liberaltarians up at night is almost over.
RaflW
If you don’t want a phone company to have your calling records … well, don’t have a fucking phone. Because, y’know, they print your call records on a piece of paper (if you still opt for detailed paper billing that is).
What a twatwaddle.
David Koch
Cole,
Can’t wait to see how you deal with your conflict between knee-jerk support for Greenwald and your hatred of smears.
Oh wait… I already have.
If Leni Riefenstahl were a Griftwald fanatic and had a blog, Cole’s posts on Balloon Juice is exactly what it would look like.
Griftwald could rape a nun on tee vee and Cole would defend him.
Cole, you and your fellow Bush and Iraq invasion supporter Griftwald can pretend to be better than everyone else, but we know the truth.
LAC
@askew: yeah, I googled the bullshit parade and it goes around Cole’s block frequently. I am waiting for the “Charmin is not really soft and you are all idiots for buying it” post. We are due for one of those.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
i’m going to share some anti NSA shit on facebook. then I can be INDIGNANT! or something.