These guys don’t know when to shut up:
But on Fox News Sunday this week, Bush-era National Security Agency and Central Intelligence Agency Director Michael Hayden suggested that Feinstein actually encouraged the public release of the interrogation techniques report because of her emotions.
Citing specifically Feinstein’s line about not using such techniques again, Hayden told Fox News Sunday host Chis Wallace, “Now that sentence that, motivation for the report, Chris, may show deep emotional feeling on part of the Senator. But I don’t think it leads you to an objective report.”
Wallace — who is far from a sympathizer for Senator Feinstein and her party — responded incredulously to the Director’s assertion that Sen. Feinstein’s emotions drove her to want a public report on the U.S.’s potential use of torture. “Forgive me because you and I both know Senator Feinstein,” Wallace said. “I have the highest regard for her. You’re saying you think she was emotional in these conclusions?”
Hayden did not respond specifically to Wallace’s question, but rather said simply that only portions of the report had been leaked but it did not tell the whole story.
And then you have this:
Sen. Angus King, who is on the intelligence committee, (I-ME) reacted to Cheney’s comments during a Sunday appearance on MSNBC.
“I was stunned to hear that quote from Vice President Cheney,” King explained. “If he doesn’t think that was torture, I would invite him anywhere in the United States to sit in a waterboard and go through what those people went through, one of them a hundred and plus-odd times.”
“That’s ridiculous to make that claim! This was torture by anybody’s definition,” he continued. “John McCain says it’s torture, and I think he’s in a better position to know this than Vice President Cheney. I was shocked to hear that statement that he just made.”
“And to say that it was carefully managed, and everybody knew what was going on, that’s absolutely nonsense.”
King concluded: “Sorry to be sort of wound up on this, but I couldn’t believe that quote from Vice President Cheney.”
They got away with, well, murder, and now they are going to run their mouths until someone is finally forced to do something about them.
cyntax
Have to say I’m feeling conflicted about my senator, since I’m used to DiFi being on the wrong side of national security issues.
c u n d gulag
Cheney’s pee and poop himself at the very mention of that challenge!
Then he’d die of a heart attack at the first hint of that actually happening – now that he’s finally got one.
And why waste a good heart from a person who donated his/her organ with good will and intent, and had no idea that upon death, it would be placed in a an evil sociopathic monster.
So, in light of all of that, may I suggest a compromise?
How about Liz Cheney?
She doesn’t have a heart – hers, or anyone else’s.
And who the f*ck besides her family, would miss “Daddies Little Draft Exemption?”
It’s a WIN-WIN!!!
We won’t accidentally kill some poor dead person’s live heart, even though it’s in one of the most evil men in our countries history, and we rid ourselves of one of his evil spawn.
Btw – I’m not talking about Mary, the (seemingly nice – but definitely nicer of the two) lesbian daughter.
I’m talking about the non-empathetic, pug-nosed, multi-chinned, vicious, bigoted, stupid, ignorant, and evil sociopathic one.
Liz proves that the turd doesn’t fall far at all from the sphincter.
scav
So Central Intelligence Agency Director Michael Hayden is signing on officially to Team Heartless. No surprise there. Team Heartless, Team Secret, Team We Lie to Presidents So What? We Know Best. Yup, to add still another quote
max
Well, besides the fact that deriding her as a woman was the handiest available insult, the fact of the matter is that as a woman Feinstein can’t understand the deep need of certain high-ranking men to invade foreign countries, take their citizens prisoner, stack them naked in prison and violently sodomize them.
They got away with, well, murder, and now they are going to run their mouths until someone is finally forced to do something about them.
They stand on the principle of torture in the theoretical sense – any problems with actual implementation are obviously just glitches.
max
[‘They have needs, baby. Man needs.’]
? Martin
@cyntax: Goes to show how far over the line they must be. Don’t underestimate the Democrats setting up campaign positions here into 2014 and 2016 either.
Omnes Omnibus
@scav: For the record, that is Bush Admin. CIA
Director.
maximiliano furtive, formerly known as dr. bloor
There’s a reason Cheney never sets foot in Europe.
Roger Moore
They seem to think that running their mouths is an important part of preventing anything further from happening. Rather than slinking off under a rock, they’re trying to justify their actions as necessary and legal. I think the goal is to throw up enough of a smoke screen that prosecutions don’t happen until the ring leaders are safely dead.
scav
@Omnes Omnibus: i do get them confused, mostly mea culpa, by not successfully untangling them in the first place. Still. Team Heartless still doesn’t seem to be a surprise somehow. Cheney merely added a couple more gears and adding turbo-chargers.
JGabriel
It’s true, those who aren’t sociopaths do tend get outraged at things like torture – particularly when it didn’t lead to any actionable intelligence despite their, purportedly begrudging, acquiescence. And never mind that they knew it was still morally heinous even if it had led to actionable intel.
Tends to make them feel like unwilling enablers of sadists, like (what’s the phrase? oh yeah, I remember now …) useful idiots.
Redkitten
Goofy wimmen with their irrational emotions and empathy and decency and stuff…
Redkitten
Goofy wimmen with their irrational emotions and empathy and decency and stuff.
some guy
speaking of lying liars and their minions, Seymour Hersh has a great long read in the London Review of Books about the sarin gas attacks in Syria. To absolutely nobody’s surprise, both usages by Al- Nusrah were facilitated by their patrons in Turkey’s military intelligence. Fortunately, the Joint Chiefs understood they were being set up and played for suckers, and Dempsey was able to convince Obama that it was the Turks and not the Assad regime that was responsible for the chemical weapons attacks.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/2014/04/06/seymour-m-hersh/the-red-line-and-the-rat-line
Chris
I find it funny that the “emotional” argument is only ever applicable when you’re talking about a “soft” emotion. Revolution at torture, pity for the people being tortured, etc.
But, you know, the rage of “fucking hajjis attacked us on 9/11 and we have to get even [even by attacking a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and where every last aspect of the war was transparently fake],” somehow, that’s not being “emotional” and no one worries about being “objective.”
dmsilev
I’m pretty sure most everyone _could_ believe that quote from Cheney. It was perfectly in character for him, and at this point nobody should be shocked that he would believe and continue to say such things. Disgusted and appalled, yes, but not shocked.
phantomist
If everything they did was legal and led to actionable intelligence, why aren’t they begging for the report to be released?
some guy
@phantomist:
If everything they did was legal and led to actionable intelligence, why aren’t they travelling to Europe for the Grand Tour?
SteveinSC
We know that Japanese buried people alive (Nanking) and waterboarded Americans (and were executed for it.) We also know that the Nazis used gas chambers, shootings and brutal interrogations for which a number where hanged or shot.
This puts the United States (AKA “the shining city on the hill”) somewhere between the Japanese and the Nazis in war crimes.
Just One More Canuck
@c u n d gulag: “the turd doesn’t fall far at all from the sphincter” – god that’s brilliant
My 9 year old is wondering why I’m laughing
NotMax
OT:
Anyone else planning on watching the premiere of Turn tonight?
cyntax
@? Martin:
Yeah, it’s weird to see her coming around this late in the game. I think the allegations of hacking/monitoring of senate staffer computers must have contributed to her epiphany. Which is good in one sense, but–wow–that’s what it takes to change her mind?
ulee
If Cheney or Rumsfeld or Bush or Rice admitted to themselves their lying and lawlessness they would need to gouge their own eyeballs out and that ain’t gonna happen.
Hunter Gathers
Which will never happen, because the White Tribe’s collective memory of Dick and Dubya’s reign has already been overwritten by the actions of the Kenyan Muslim Usurper.
ulee
And besides. Benghazi.
Mike in NC
@maximiliano furtive, formerly known as dr. bloor: But it would be better if Cheney couldn’t set foot outside of Leavenworth.
IowaOldLady
That lightning has not struck Dick Cheney is proof there is no god. Also, Thomas and Scalia.
Redkitten
@Chris: It’s pure IOIYAR. Soft emotions are good when the right is talking about abortion, but bad when the left is talking about torture. Anger is manly if from the right, but shrill if from the left.
Hungry Joe
That monsters such as Cheney ran the country for eight years, and walked away clean, rich, and laughing, indicates some serious flaws in our democracy. At this point I’m not sure it can be fixed. But, you know, we gotta keep slogging: “Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better.”
muddy
@scav:
I think he still has a defibrillator in his chest, unfortunately. I have one myself, I have to be careful about motors and magnets. Motors and magnets, always keep them in mind if you meet Dick Cheney. Just for safety’s sake, of course.
Chris
@Redkitten:
True.
The national dialogue really is wired for Republicans from front to back.
JPL
Remember the good old days when somehow lipstick on a pig was a direct attack on Palin and all females? Yup IOKIYR.
Cacti
@Redkitten:
Given that Feinstein was firmly in the warmonger camp during Dubya’s excellent adventure, I don’t think she’s cursed with overabundance of any of those attributes.
muddy
@dmsilev: Well, you know Angus King just got there, so you can’t expect him to know all that old history stuff.
scav
@muddy: Keep them in pockets, you no doubt meant to say, check! I always keep both my mind and strong magnets securely in my front chest-level pocket when near former leaders. Wouldn’t want to lose either in those circs.
? Martin
@cyntax: I’ll note that many decisions both in the WH and Congress since Jan 2009 seem to come at a time of maximum political benefit.
RuhRow_Gyro
It would be neat if Senator Feinstein would get all emotional when the NSA is spying on us.
muddy
@scav: Pockets? What? Don’t disturb the veil of my plausible deniability. Just be careful. And don’t forget!
Mike in NC
@NotMax: We’ll check out “Turn” tonight. Hopefully it won’t be anything like Mel Gibson’s “The Patriot” (2000), which was a huge steaming pile.
janet
Too bad. It’s gonna be a long time for W and a few others to kick the bucket. @Roger Moore:
cyntax
@? Martin:
Fair point.
Whatever my complaints, nobody can hold a candle to the political opportunism of the previous admin. Truly breathtaking even while they’re trying to burnish their reputations nearly eight years later.
scav
@muddy: I’m half-deaf, always mishearing things, sor-ry! Have no fear, I can button more than pockets and will keep your true intentions next to my own, oh yes, non-magnetized heart.
WaterGirl
@dmsilev: @muddy: In all fairness to Angus King, he just spent the last week reading the 400+ page executive summary of the findings.
So I can completely understand how the juxtaposition of reading 400 pages about torture that was done in the name of our country AND the comments from the dark lord would be kind of shocking.
Why, it’s almost enough to make a person emotional! But he’s male, so I guess it’s okay. He gets to be “wound up” and women are “emotional”. (not picking on Angus king here, picking on the stupid sexist republican males and the stupid sexist media)
JPL
It’s fortunate that NBC hired Jenna Bush. I’ll sure she will give her insight to the program. For Fox even to pretend neutrality by having Liz Cheney defend it is irresponsible.
Cacti
@RuhRow_Gyro:
Because torture and gathering telephone metadata are totes the same!
Mandalay
@Chris:
But that was men being emotional. IOKIYAM.
A nice analysis of the recent report from Christie’s lawyers really highlights that nonsense:
Villago Delenda Est
Cheney and Hayden both need to hang from the same gallows.
Fred
They got away with, well, murder, and now they are going to run their mouths until someone is finally forced to do something about them.
I predict the lot of them will all merrily trip along, laughing at all us do-gooders. But I also predicted America would never elect a black man president so I have reason to hope for justice. May John Cole be right and I be pleasantly astonished.
scav
@Cacti: But knowing someone has knowledge of his dialing habits is totally as painful as the Holocaust, the Trail of Tears and Waterboarding combined!. RuhRoh is an ‘mercan, for GSD’s sake, they’re tender! Can’t put his sort in the general population of a prison when convicted of a crime, f’instance, it’s dangerous!
jeffreyw
@NotMax: Just set the DVR to catch it, thanks!
Cacti
@scav:
Shouting “NSA” has become the brogressive equivalent of the wingers shouting “Benghazi” in response to everything.
LanceThruster
Until we hold them accountable, we are all guilty of their war crimes.
Ruckus
@c u n d gulag:
That last line. Brilliant.
QFP
Tommy
I say this over and over. My dad worked at high levels within the DoD. Taught classes at the Army War College. He knows this topic. He will never be as a liberal as I am. He was against all this. I recall when I as like 7. My dad taking me to to his work. Seeing a person speak. John McCain. It is one of those things you can’t get out of your head.
Mandalay
@LanceThruster:
I never get that argument. A similar accusation is made against us voters – we get the government we deserve.
The deck is clearly stacked in favor of the powerful, and in favor of the status quo. Those are cold realities.
Given that Congress, the President and the media have shown zero appetite for going after Cheney, Rumsfeld et al, what exactly do you believe we are “guilty” of having done or not done? And precisely what should we have done instead? How on earth are those of us who opposed to the Iraq War “guilty of their war crimes”. That makes no sense to me.
geg6
@RuhRow_Gyro:
Yeah, being waterboarded over one hundred times is exactly like having metadata stored in massive quantities. I know I choke every time they store one of my Facebook posts. It’s horrifying.
geg6
@Mandalay:
Yeah, I don’t want to hear that shit. I don’t believe in collective guilt, for one thing. And for another, I never voted for either W or Cheney and I vocally opposed the war the minute I heard the first rumble. Fuck that. I don’t feel one bit responsible. It’s up to those who were on the wrong side of history to atone for those sins.
kindness
Guillotine?
Booger
Every time I see Michael Hayden I hear Red Forman.
Dolly Llama
@Tommy: Have you ever realized that every single one of your posts is a first-person thing? No exceptions? Nothing wrong with that. Just pointing it out if no one else has.
LanceThruster
@Mandalay:
While not direct guilt, it’s much like the guilt of the genocide of Native Americans. We benefit from it. If we have a supposedly representative government that does not represent us, but we shrug our shoulders over what we can do about it, then we bear a portion of that guilt. Look how easily we turn a blind eye towards the abuse of peaceful Palestinians, because some choose to fight back in an asymetrical conflict.
Keith G
@Hunter Gathers:
Actually, one of the reasons that it will never happen is that the very Kenyan Muslim Usurper to which you refer said that he did not want such accountability to be enforced.
When the new head of the Executive Branch gives them a pass, accountability is dead.
WaterGirl
As much as I hate the “we have to look forward, not backward” thing, I know that if President Obama had pursued any of that… we wouldn’t have health care, and he wouldn’t have gotten a single other thing done as president.
President Obama is nothing if not practical, and I’m certain this was a practical decision, not a desire to let things slide because they didn’t matter.
J R in WV
I just got a robo-call from Newt Gingivitus about some kind of conserva-mole meeting, and he wanted my advice.
I wouldn’t piss on Newt if he was on fire! He mentioned that they were trying to stop President Obama from destroying the nation, and I thought, the old double reverse again… the Republicans are trying to destroy democracy in America, and to hide that goal they’re trying to make believe that the Democratic party wants to end democracy. So no one will suspect that the Rs had anything to do with it, if they succeed..
When he was through bloviating and wanted to ask for my advice, the robo call machinery said to press 1 to speak with a volunteer, so I did. Then the Robo call machine started to tell me to call some 800 phone number if I didn’t want to get any more of these Repugnant p;olitical phone calls.
So I pressed 1 again… never did get to talk to that volunteer. It makes me wonder if they can listen to my breathing and tell that I’m not conservative enough for their purposes?
But I always try to keep them busy as long as I can, because that wastes their resources on talking to someone who won’t vote for them unless I’m at gunpoint.
I was trying to think of advice for Republicans that they would take seriously, and that would then result in their wasting a billion dollars on something that wouldn’t catch a single liberal Democrat in a million years.
Couldn’t think of anything that sounded good for that, so I poured some whiskey [email protected]!
WereBear
Obama Advisors Feared a Coup if the Administration Prosecuted War Crimes
Ruckus
@geg6:
Collective guilt. Isn’t that like being responsible for the crucifixion of a fictitious character from a book written by several men over the course of a couple of hundred years nearly 2000 yrs ago?
Mike G
@cyntax:
Like most powerful people, and most Republicans of any stripe, the mentality is “It’s not a problem until it’s MY problem.” At which point it becomes very important indeed.
I read with amusement that Code Pink or some similar group flew a tiny camera drone around DiFi’s house in SF peeking in her windows, and she was all outraged about it.
Keith G
@WereBear: If true, sounds like a bit of an after the fact cop out, and still not morally defensible.
If true.
AxelFoley
@LanceThruster:
“We”, kemosabe? I guess we’re all still guilty of slavery and genocide, too.
AxelFoley
@WaterGirl:
Thank you. All those idiots who want Obama to go after Bush and Cheney refuse to acknowledge that.
We would NOT have gotten a damn thing done and this country would be even more fucked than it is now. The country was about to go over the edge with the economy teetering on the brink. But no, let’s waste time and political capital going after the previous administration, something no president has ever done.
AxelFoley
@Keith G: I’m sure you feel the same way about all the other admins that didn’t go after Nixon, right?
Roger Moore
@WaterGirl:
Which is exactly why we need a real International Criminal Court with actual universal jurisdiction, and why the W administration was so adamant about not letting it happen. There are times when countries are effectively prevented by political realities from investigating their own wrongdoing, so having a third party to do it for them, whether they want it done or not, would serve a real purpose.
SiubhanDuinne
@Roger Moore:
Co-sign, second, ditto, this, QFT.
Keith G
@AxelFoley: Fuck yeah, kemosabe.
The lesson of Prez Ford is that expedience can never be an excuse to avoid confronting evil actions. Such avoidance gives evil the chance, and maybe even the permission, to carry on.
Roger Moore
@AxelFoley:
Of course, no previous administration had as much reason to do so; the crimes of the W administration were pretty much unprecedented. One is also left to wonder if the failure to prosecute some previous administrations’ crimes, especially Watergate and Iran Contra, might have made the Bush/Cheney Crime Ring bolder in their violations.
WaterGirl
@Roger Moore: Completely agree!
Phantom 309
@Roger Moore: Cue for Dylan’s “Masters Of War.”
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
Absolutely.
LanceThruster
@AxelFoley:
Again, we directly benefited from it. Nobody’s returning land, and nobody’s pushing for 40 acres and a mule.
LanceThruster
And if justice relies exclusively what is convenient or practical…it’s not really justice.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
I’m not sure that there haven’t been things that should have been prosecuted in prior administrations. Maybe none so egregious as the crimes against humanity of the bush/cheney dynasty but there have been 44 presidents.
Jay B.
Thank Christ that in ignoring the law, the Obama Administration forged a solid working relationship with the Republican Party and America’s moral standing in the world has never been stronger. I mean if they decided to prosecute the elite in any way, whether they fucked up the financial system or blew up the world, I’m sure the GOP would have hated the administration.
A Humble Lurker
@Jay B.:
Fuck the GOP. It wasn’t JUST the GOP that had their finger in that cookie jar and if the stimulus hadn’t been passed the REST of us would’ve been screwed.
Pen
@LanceThruster: Tell you what: I’ll give up my 10 acre plot of land to the Iroquois just as soon as my ancestral holdings in Ireland and Germany are returned to both sides of my family.
I feel absolutely no guilt about owning land that used to belong to the Iroquois because, quite frankly, my family came to America two generations ago and, if we want to play the “displaced populations” blame-game, pretty much everyone on the planet would be getting eviction notices.
Paul in KY
@WereBear: I wish a muthafucker would try a coup – attitude Pres Obama should have, IMO.
LanceThruster
@Pen:
Catch-22 means that people have a right to do to you anything which you cannot prevent them from doing to you – Joseph Heller
Nathanael
@Roger Moore: I think you’re right. Their goal is quite explicitly to avoid prosecution.
Our goal should be to get them executed for their treasons.
Nathanael
@WereBear: The Obama administration should have prosecuted. And coup? If you’re President and you’re afraid of a coup, you’re doing it wrong. You should have your own elite guard and you should be ready to say “Coup? Bring it on and watch me crush you.”
Rebecca Griffin
Why get all bent out of shape about flagrant human rights abuse, ladies? I would hope we would all be pretty emotional about torture: http://ow.ly/vzHXN