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You are here: Home / Economics / Free Markets Solve Everything / Talk Talk

Talk Talk

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As much as FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler has tried to put a pretty pink bow on his plan to gut net neutrality, he’s been rumbled:

[…] That draft proposal, which offered an internet “fast lane” for bloated internet providers, was lambasted by some of the United States’ biggest investors, technology companies, senators, and even Wheeler’s own colleagues at the FCC. Wheeler himself has responded to public opposition, first in a blog post on the FCC’s own site, in which he claimed that reports stating the FCC was “gutting” the open internet rule were false, and later in a letter published by The Washington Post.

Wheeler’s denials haven’t worked, so now he’s making a second effort by allowing “a broader range of comments” on the FCC”s rulemaking notice, which, again, ain’t much.

The interesting thing about this fight is that it pits one set of powerful corporate entities, ISPs like Comcast and AT&T who provide Internet service to the home, against another set, Microsoft, Google, Facebook and Amazon and any other company that wants to send content via Comcast and AT&T’s connections. Since there are two competing sources of campaign donations involved here, I don’t understand why Democrats can’t just get behind Google et. al., especially since everyone hates the cable companies, and nobody wants to pay more for Netflix.

Reader Interactions

49Comments

  1. 1.

    Bobby Thomson

    Now who’s being naive, Kay?

    You think this is about campaign donations? No, this is just plain vanilla corruption.

  2. 2.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    Hey Mr. Mix,

    I haven’t read all of the criticism out there. Has there been a substantive rebuttal of the main problem yet – the fact that a court struck down the FCC’s previous attempt? Wheeler explicitly said that declaring the broadband providers as “common carriers” (or whatever) wouldn’t change much. Is there a substantive rebuttal to that – other than “you’re wrong1!111”.

    I dislike the cable companies as much as anyone, and Wheeler may be every bit of an industry toady as his many critics say, but at the end of the day, the FCC has to comply with directions from the courts.

    Righteous indignation is righteous, but where’s the substance?

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  4. 4.

    Baud

    I don’t understand why Democrats can’t just get behind Google et. al., especially since everyone hates the cable companies, and nobody wants to pay more for Netflix.

    Not every Democrat gets money from both sources.

    And, unfortunately, a lot of people who get angry at Democrats for not doing X don’t turn around and support Democrats when they do X.

  6. 6.

    evolved beyond the fist mistermix

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Here’s what a Stanford law prof who specializes in net neutrality says the FCC ought to do:

    The FCC can reclassify Internet service as a telecommunications service and adopt network neutrality rules under Title II of the Telecommunications Act – rules that are unencumbered by the restrictions imposed by Section 706. To ensure that reclassification does not result in onerous regulation, the FCC should immediately forbear from applying those Title II provisions that are not necessary to protect consumers.

    According to the Wall Street Journal, “[t]he commission has decided for now against reclassifying broadband as a public utility […]. However, the commission has left the reclassification option on the table at present.”

    As I’ve explained, Section 706 seriously limits the FCC’s ability to adopt meaningful network neutrality rules, so “leaving the reclassification option on the table” is not enough. If the FCC is serious about protecting the Open Internet, it needs to do its due diligence and seriously explore all available options, and that requires asking real questions about reclassification in the upcoming Notice of Proposed Rulemaking.

    https://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/blog/2014/04/fcc-changed-course-network-neutrality-here-why-you-should-care

    Section 706 is the section that the FCC has used to justify net neutrality rulemaking, but as you can read at that link, it’s pretty clear that any use of 706 will require the FCC to allow pay-for-preferred-access on the Internet.

    The standard rejoinder to common carrier is that Congress will immediately pass a bill to reverse the FCC’s ruling. To that I say, “great”. Then we’ll have a fight in the open, and remember who’s president? He can veto the bill.

  7. 7.

    Botsplainer

    Netflix is too damned cheap and a time suck anyway.

    I’ve come full circle on net neutrality. If it constricts the info puke funnel by making it lag, or if people are inspired by sluggish connection to leave the house to interact in meatspace (perhaps to take up a hobby, exercise, make love to a significant other, talk to family and friends, improve professional skills), then that might not be such a bad thing.

  10. 10.

    Baud

    @evolved beyond the fist mistermix:

    I agree that’s what should happen. The last FCC chairman gave the industry a chance to avoid reclassification, and they took him to court. The FCC has a good DC Circuit now, so the only problem is the Supreme Court. But I like the FCC’s chances there also.

  11. 11.

    evolved beyond the fist mistermix

    @Botsplainer: How about we filter you down to one troll per day unless you paypal Cole $5 per additional post?

    That’s a non-net-neutrality proposal I think we all can get behind.

  13. 13.

    raven

    You know that using red text for emphasis leaves color blind folks out of the picture?

  15. 15.

    raven

    Charter just notified us that they are going 100% digital in 2 weeks. I have the house totally wired for 6 tv’s and all but one are analog!

  16. 16.

    Poopyman

    @raven: Those are links. I don’t know how well FYWP hides the ability to change link colors.

    ETA: The blockquote is from The Verge, which uses red for their hyperlinks. Dunno if EBTFMM has the power to change that.

  20. 20.

    NonyNony

    @Botsplainer:

    You have no self-control so you want the government and corporations to take responsibility to schedule your life for you and make you go outside and play?

    …

    I’m just going to assume that you’re joking and move on…

  21. 21.

    Carolinus

    @evolved beyond the fist mistermix:

    Here’s what a Stanford law prof who specializes in net neutrality says the FCC ought to do: […]

    That’s actually touched on in the source WSJ article. Part of the draft proposal that will be put forward in Thursday’s meeting will explicitly be asking for public comment on overturning the 2005 FCC classification of ISPs as ‘Information Service’s. This is relevant paragraph:

    Mr. Wheeler’s language will also invite comments on whether broadband Internet service should be considered a public utility, which would subject it to greater regulation.

    Here’s a link to the WSJ article for anyone who wants to skip passed The Verge’s content rehosting and editorializing back to the actual source material:
    http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303627504579556200630931292-lMyQjAxMTA0MDEwMTExNDEyWj

  22. 22.

    evolved beyond the fist mistermix

    @dr. bloor: Yep, and this is his chance to fix that mistake. He’s pretty good at fixing mistakes.

  23. 23.

    Citizen_X

    @Botsplainer:

    There was something to be said for the original metered AOL usage model. It kept me cognizant of time.

    You can also use, you know, a clock.

  24. 24.

    glasnost

    I don’t understand why Democrats can’t just get behind Google et. al., especially since everyone hates the cable companies, and nobody wants to pay more for Netflix.

    Here, mistermix, let me provide you an answer:

    http://www.freedomworks.org/content/freedomworks-applauds-house-democrats-net-neutrality-stance

    Yes, that headline says “Freedomworks Applauds House Democrats’ Net Neutrality Stance”.

    Because a substantial fraction of house democrats have been bought, so many that Wheeler can genuinely be said to be following the signals he’s gotten from Congress.

    It’s not easy to tell from the outside whether Wheeler has also been bought, or whether he’s simply adopted a posture of defeatism. But, seriously, fuck you, Barack Obama, for appointing someone not interested in going to the mat for what’s right. I’m not a firebagger, but everywhere I look I see vacuous, self-serving tools like Tim Geithner, John Brennan, and this clown in the administration’s ranks.

    And we have no one to blame but ourselves; we haven’t come out and found, or made, more Elizabeth Warrens.

  25. 25.

    Eric U.

    @Citizen_X: there is a program that keeps track of how much time you spend on facebook and only allows so much of that. Of course, I found out about it when it reduced a high-end workstation to the capacity of a apple II, but that sort of thing exists.

  26. 26.

    dr. bloor

    @evolved beyond the fist mistermix: I will be heartened when the President categorically declares Wheeler’s proposal to be a mistake that he intends to undo. “Supporting net neutrality” while reminding everyone that the FCC is an autonomous entity is…less than reassuring.

  28. 28.

    glasnost

    More:

    http://www.precursorblog.com/?q=content/reality-check-electoral-politics-net-neutrality

    And from a recent Vox update:

    The liberal advocacy group Free Press tells me that Rep. Gene Green (D-TX) is asking colleagues to sign onto a letter urging Wheeler not to reclassify broadband. “In the years that broadband service has been subjected to relatively little regulation, investment and deployment have flourished and broadband competition has increased,” the letter argues.

    Right now – even amidst this relative firestorm of popularity for the issue – House Democrats are organizing AGAINST net neutrality.

  29. 29.

    C.V. Danes

    @evolved beyond the fist mistermix:

    The standard rejoinder to common carrier is that Congress will immediately pass a bill to reverse the FCC’s ruling. To that I say, “great”. Then we’ll have a fight in the open, and remember who’s president? He can veto the bill.

    Given the track history of this Congress on passing legislation, I wouldn’t be too worried about that.

  32. 32.

    Baud

    @glasnost:

    Right now – even amidst this relative firestorm of popularity for the issue – House Democrats are organizing AGAINST net neutrality.

    Yeah, like these guys.

    Feb 3, 2014
    Today Reps. Henry A. Waxman and Anna G. Eshoo introduced H.R. 3982, the Open Internet Preservation Act, with a Senate companion bill to be introduced by Sen. Ed Markey, to protect consumers and innovation online. Last month, the D.C. Circuit struck down the Federal Communications Commission’s Open Internet rules preventing broadband providers from blocking or discriminating against content online. The bill would restore these rules until the FCC takes new, final action in the Open Internet proceeding.
    Original co-sponsors of the bills are: Reps. Waxman, Eshoo, Frank Pallone, Jr., Doris Matsui, Mike Doyle, Zoe Lofgren, Jan Schakowsky, Michael E. Capuano, and Suzan DelBene and Sens. Markey, Richard Blumenthal, Al Franken, Tom Udall, Ron Wyden, and Jeff Merkley.

  34. 34.

    Mike E

    My new strategy is to somehow expedite Google fiber so I can haz innertoobs and stream my fave shows via hulu, Amazon prime and Netflix. Ain’t gonna be here til well into next year, so there’s that local monopoly to contend with. Boo.

  36. 36.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    @raven: They went digital here last year. It also means that you need a cable box for each tv. I now have DirecTV.

  37. 37.

    lukeallen1

    “…I don’t understand…”

    That is all you needed to type markymux. Blatantly obvious anyways.

  38. 38.

    Morbo

    @raven: They did that here; have fun not being able to find any channels for the next two months. I have one extra bedroom TV that I put on sleep mode when I go to bed which is useless now of course, but thanks for making everything so much more convenient, Charter.

    I would also note that commercials for Charter Spectrum started airing within a week of the FCC decision.

  39. 39.

    AnonPhenom

    I don’t understand why Democrats can’t just get behind Google et. al…

    Gee, ya think the fact that Wheeler was nominated by a Democratic President and confirmed by a Democratic Senate has anything to do with it?
    Nah. Thats crazy talk.

  40. 40.

    Higgs Boson's Mate

    Close to 79% of US businesses are using VOIP for their telephone service. VOIP usage is growing at a double digit annual rate and it’s now generating $15Bn a year in revenue. That suggests to me an easy justification for reclassifying ISPs as common carriers.

    VOIP: Voice Over Internet Protocol. It’s what you use for your telephone landline when you get an all-in-one package (Cable, Internet and Phone) from your provider.

  41. 41.

    john b

    @Botsplainer: some (many, most) use the internet for work beyond just email. it’d be nice if i could ACTUALLY telecommute rather than the half-assed half-work I can do from home now. More reliable and faster internet would help with that.

  42. 42.

    The Moar You Know

    Since there are two competing sources of campaign donations involved here, I don’t understand why Democrats can’t just get behind Google et. al., especially since everyone hates the cable companies, and nobody wants to pay more for Netflix.

    Because then they wouldn’t get any payoffs – er, I meant “campaign contributions” – from the telcos. This way you play both sets of suckers, erm, sorry guys, don’t know why I keep making these mistakes, I meant “interest groups” against each other and get maximum money.

  43. 43.

    Berial

    Sadly, Net Neutrality is one of the areas that I don’t trust the Democrats anymore than I do the Republicans.

    Our best hope is that the ‘people that matter’ (ironically large powerful corporations) actually disagree with each other on this, so we ‘little people’ MIGHT, just MIGHT, get a chance to actually get our voice heard about the issue. MIGHT.

  44. 44.

    J R in WV

    I wrote to the FCC opposing pay for play on the innertubez, and this is what I got back:

    Dear Consumer,

    Thank you very much for contacting us about the ongoing Open Internet proceeding. We’re hoping to hear from as many people as possible about this critical issue, and so I’m very glad that we can include your thoughts and opinions.

    I’m a strong supporter of the Open Internet, and I will fight to keep the internet open. Thanks again for sharing your views with me.

    Tom Wheeler

    So this guy has the balls to deny to a writer what he’s trying to do…amazing! What a piece of work!

  45. 45.

    burnspbesq

    @J R in WV:

    I wrote to the FCC opposing pay for play on the innertubez

    So you’re a free-rider and a marginal-cost denier? Good to know, I guess.

  46. 46.

    Jamey

    @Botsplainer: Yes, this! Seems only logical that we should let Comcast bugger the Internet because Botsplainer can’t stop binge-watching “Dance Moms.”

    Just a thought, but a full puke-funnel is not the only reason socially-retarded individuals aren’t having sex with their spouses, trail-running, or dancing around Maypoles.

  47. 47.

    Morzer

    @Jamey:

    a full puke-funnel is not the only reason socially-retarded individuals aren’t having sex with their spouses

    Let’s face it, if you were married to Donald Sterling, wouldn’t you rather spend your time watching Dance Moms*?

    *Noting here for the record that I haven’t even watched Dance Dads, much less the female version.

  48. 48.

    evolved beyond the fist mistermix

    @Carolinus: Asking for comment? What’s next, a strongly worded letter to Comcast?

    As I understand it, that comment ask is attached to a proposed rule that does basically what Wheeler proposed in the first place, a “fast lane”.

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