Continuing the ‘easy target’ theme of the day, in the latest NYMag, former drama critic Frank Rich asks “Can Conservatives Be Funny?”:
… [I]t’s telling that while conservative comics pick on undocumented immigrant Hispanics and other minorities who don’t have the standing to fight back, they rarely have the guts to make a direct, as opposed to an encoded, joke about those Jews held guilty of ruining Christmas… What the jokes more often express is bewilderment about—and resistance to—the speed of America’s demographic turnover. In Not Cool, Gutfeld writes that “the haters of the old white male forget that it was a hardy group of old white men who created this country.” What bugs Gutfeld now, as it does Dunham’s grumpy old Walter and many present-day American conservatives, is that this country insists on perpetually re-creating itself, progressively whittling down old white men’s monopoly on power.
In this sense, a lot of conservative comedy both expresses and panders to today’s Republican base, older white men who see America changing and feel impotent about thwarting it… Among the most popular conservative comics are four middle-aged men, most famously Jeff Foxworthy and Larry the Cable Guy, who have toured under the rubric the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. It is not quite right to say that they are to contemporary comedy what country music is to contemporary music—they really are what Grand Ole Opry– generation country-western is to contemporary music. Though Foxworthy endorsed and appeared with Romney in 2012, much of his and his peers’ humor is not political at all, but the stuff of daily domestic life, the foibles of marriage and kids and aging, much as stand-up used to be before Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, and Richard Pryor, among others, upended the form. Like the Kings of Comedy (the band of black comedians that inspired the Blue Collar Comedy Tour) and the long-touring Catskills on Broadway (an earlier revue featuring classic Borscht Belt Jewish comics), these old-timers have a sustaining audience. But it’s a declining regional niche, not a mass market…
… The core audience for conservative humor—like that of Fox News (median age 68)—is not exactly a lucrative demographic for television advertisers, whatever its value in winning red-state elections or cable-news ratings wars. The median age for Stewart and Colbert on Comedy Central is 43 and 42, respectively, and you have to wonder if it might be younger still were they liberated (as Colbert soon will be) from their satirical addiction to the elderly Fox News brand…
***********
Apart from waiting for the bigots to “age out”, what’s on the agenda for the evening?
Craigie
Checking out the first daughter’s new high school for next year. Impressed so far!
Walker
Jeff Dunham is conservative and he is the number one grossing stand-up comedian in North America.
Omnes Omnibus
@Walker: Is he the puppet guy?
Hal
I find the D’souza sitch hilarious. This douche spent months claiming he was being persecuted by Obama and Holder, and now he turns around and pleads guilty. I wonder what made him cop a plea? It’ll be funny to watch all the conservatives claim he is somehow being forced by that Tyrant Obama. Release the world, I mean, conspiracy engine!
Shana
I’m just hoping that the contractors who we’ve paid nearly 60% of the job cost but who have only done about 40% of the job, who we had to threaten with mediation, actually show up tomorrow so our kitchen addition/remodel that was supposed to take 10-11 weeks and be done by mid-March and is now tentatively scheduled to be done sometime in August, and do some work. Sigh. I’m never doing a remodel again.
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus:
Technically, Dunham’s a ventriloquist, and yes he is discussed in Rich’s article.
Belafon
@Walker: And Fox News is the number one news channel. I’m pretty sure the “Fake Prince Harry gets an American” will draw a bigger crowd.
lamh36
I’ve got my tics for X-Men: DOFP for this Thursday night and I can’t wait!
I’ve been surfing the net, but I’ve also been switching between movie channels. I just have one quesiton, Who the hell watched this dumb ass Twilight BS? I’m flipping between channels, but still, this shit is soooo stupid. You can tell it was written as a young adult novel with a YA audience in mind.
Give me True Blood any day!
I ended up settling for Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. Kevin Costner and Christian Slater’s disappearing English accents…no thank you. Alan Rickman as the Sheriff of Notthingham…yes please.
Hal
@Belafon: Cable news channel. Fox News nightly audience still pales in comparison to the major network shows. At least that’s how I comfort myself at night.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anne Laurie: Can’t read the article while watching My Favorite Year. One must have priorities.
lamh36
Obama makes surprise appearance at White House talent show
Suffern ACE
Oh, how Frank Rich wishes he were still young and transformative. However Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor and George Carlin’s upheaval took place a long time ago, and Colbert’s and Stewart’s demographics are middle aged. No lover of Blue Collar comedy, but mostly grey is mostly grey.
KG
@Walker: funny, I’ve seen pretty much all his specials and most of the stuff by the blue collar guys. Never noticed anything overtly political. Very little subtly political for that matter. Honestly, outside of satire, it’s hard to do political comedy
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Basil Rathbone is the definitive Sheriff.
Schlemizel
@Hal:
Don’t worry, in 10-16 it will be that he was persecuted by the Tyrant Obama and he only pled out to get it over with.
lamh36
@efgoldman: lol. He literally was the BEST thing about RH:POT
lamh36
Damnit! I missed The Carol Burnett Show reunion on the Queen Latifah show today!
Shoot, I loved the CBShow! OMG!!! Lyle Waggoner is almost 80!!!! They all look good though.
http://youtu.be/l9-RLDlm5S8
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: True enough.
gbear
@Schlemizel: Maybe he’ll make a movie about it…
? Martin
@Walker: Um, I’m pretty sure Jerry Seinfeld is significantly out-earning Dunham. And if you add in the stand-up comics that are locked into TV gigs, there’s quite a lot of them out earning Dunham, including Jon Stewart.
Suffern ACE
@efgoldman: I remember when the internet was fast, free stuff was on it and we wore onions on our belts.
RandomMonster
Also, can christian rock not suck? The answer to both questions is no.
Art in the service of rigid, inflexible ideology never works.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Not a video, but still…
Groucho48
Shouldn’t it be “Can conservatives be intentionally funny?”? Cause I am always laughing at them.
lamh36
Oooh, Colin Firth as a suave British super spy action star…yess please!
Colin Firth talks action movie debut in ‘Kingsman: The Secret Service’ — FIRST LOOK
jl
@Hal:
” I find the D’souza sitch hilarious. ”
The best conservative comedy is done by comedic actors like D’souza in a reality show format. So, give some credit where credit is due.
some guy
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0701151/quotes
Last Exit to Springfield.
Walker
@? Martin:
Per show possibly. But according to Pollstar Dunham is the top grossing act.
Which is why this article comes across sounding really snobby.
Bobby Thomson
Unbearably cute.
gnomedad
Knock, knock.
Who’s there?
Benghazi!
Hahahahaha!!!
Keith G
@Hal:
I suppose it was taking prison time off the table…..too bad.
Yet that is why one pays a lot of $$$ to get a lawyer who knows when and how negotiate, right Oms?
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
Agenda for the evening for this aging-out non-bigot (DFH then, DFH now, DFH forever!) is to log off, quit work for the night, have another glass of wine, read a thriller, crash.
Boy do I detest all the old bald fat white guys that give us other old bald fat white guys a bad rep.
Keith G
@Walker:
An article from Frank Rich? Never!!
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Shana: You have my deepest sympathy. We had a contractor who shifted from job to job, getting paid for one so he could order materials for another, dropping us for something else so he could get paid and cover his mortgage. Ugh.
KG
@efgoldman: yeah, there’s definitely a difference between political jokes and political comedy. And I think impressions by their nature end up being satirical.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@RandomMonster: Art in the service of rigid, inflexible ideology never works.
Ruckus
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:
No kidding. Assholes, the lot of them.
Omnes Omnibus
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason: How well did that work?
Ruckus
@efgoldman:
I’ve taken to realize that not only is conservative humor an oxymoron but even jokes about them aren’t all that funny but rather just maddeningly sad.
scuffletuffle
@lamh36: Alan Rickman, God yes! Kevin Costner ruins every movie he is in with the exception of Dances with Wolves.
jl
Tried to read it, but then saw the thing was five (FIVE) pages. After seeing that the part on Southpark was boring as hell I gave up. So I skimmed it.
Does Rich know what he is talking about? Look at really old Carlin and Pryor clips, They could do brilliant observational and psychological humor, sometimes edging into Jonathon Winter’s style surrealism, with no politics at all. They still did some of that after they put more politics in their material. (Edit, and I think Winters BTW was sort of politically conservative, but not sure. But Ii don’t think Winters was politically nuts or resentful, he was insane in a more wholesome way).
I think Rich is correct that Colbert, and certainly Stewart, are not really ‘liberal’ comedians in the sense that the self-professed conservative comedians are. A lot of Colbert’s supposed liberal humor is just funny bits that could be attached to anybody, but being a satire of a reactionary talk show host, he packages it with jibes at conservatives and GOPers. His ‘Generic Republican’ piece is a good example.
I think Rich did a 5 page boring as hell riff on Twain’s ‘Wagner’s music is better than it sounds’ joke.
Omnes Omnibus
@scuffletuffle: No Way Out and Silverado. Oh yeah, Bull Durham.
some guy
@efgoldman:
One would think Warner Brothers would understand their own naked self interest in seeing Grampa Simpson rant on the intertoobz
jonas
Good humor — particularly satire — punches up for laughs. Always has — think Carlin, Bruce, Pryor. “Conservative” humor by nature punches down. It makes fun of the vulnerable and less fortunate. It gets laughs primarily from humiliation and privilege, not irony or speaking truth to power. Did you hear the one about the cripple who lost his job? What a cretin! Har!
Mike G
@Hal:
Maybe now he’ll make another fantasist documentary:
D’Souza’s America 2016: Ex-Convict
Omnes Omnibus
@jonas: In the Middle Ages, the fool was the only person who got to mock the King.
? Martin
@Walker: Ah, so top grossing stand-up tour. Best I could find was he grossed $23M in ticket sales. That’s not what he earned, that’s what he grossed.
Colbert and Stewart each gross about $60M annually for their shows. Letterman is $200M. Fallon, Kimmel, and Conan are all around $70M. Hell, Chelsea Lately is over $30M. All stand-up comics, all with better grossing gigs.
Suffern ACE
@Keith G: yes. Someone needs to remind him that the “regional niche” market probably includes much of the 320 million Americans who don’t live on his block.
Suffern ACE
@Mike G: I look forward to him coming out a changed man. Maybe linking up with pussy riot in the cause of global prison reform.
RandomMonster
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:
Actually, the renaissance was all about the humanist reawakening of classical thinking, so it’s not hard to show that renaissance masters were part of a dialogue against rigid ideology.
jl
@jonas: I think also its that the self-professed conservative comics always have the same ax to grind, and it is grating and exhausting. I’m not a Foxworthy fan, and I don’t think he is one of he self-pitying self-professed conservative comicals, but he can stand there and pump out minor variations on the you know if you are a redneck gag all night, and it’s funny sometimes, usually so-so, but it doesn’t drive me crazy.
For the conservative comix corps (aka conservative comedic corpse) comedy is just a vehicle to advance a predetermined political point of view. That is why they are almost incapable of turning their gags on their own side. People like Colbert and Stewart have their own political viewpoints that color their thinking, and the comedy flows from that. I am pretty sue they don’t sit down and write up a target list every day. They see what is going on and what is funny, and shape it through their human viewpoint. And they let the chips fall where they may. I think the conservative comix do sit down and tick off all the liberal crap they have to shoot down, and form the jokes around that agenda. And I’m sure the Gutfeld guy reads the texts and fax messages just like Hannity and Brooks do. That stuff ain’t going to be funny.
jonas
@efgoldman: It’s from the episode “Last Exit to Springfield” aka Homer Becomes a Union Boss, possibly the greatest episode in the series’ entire history (“Mmmmmm. Organized crime….”)
Betty Cracker
I finally broke down and started binge-watching Mad Men. I’m thinking it must be incredibly expensive to procure all that vintage swag.
LosGatosCA
Conservative comedy can be a riot – for them. But unfortunately, they have learned the hard way that the rest of us don’t find their sadistic humor of punching down by mocking minorities, women, and the less fortunate is funny or acceptable.
Rush Limbaugh is the edge of this type of sadistic “humor” and even he pays a price for it.
joel hanes
Rich quotes Gutfeld
it was a hardy group of old white men who created this country
Right.
uh, except for their black slaves in the South who did all the real work of creating and operating plantations
and, except for the wimminfolk, who were hardier than their men, and bore them, and fed and clothed them, and taught them, AND worked in the fields, kept chickens, and took in wash
and, except for the Chinese who built the Western railroads
oh, and the Mexicans who lived in what is now the American Southwest, and live there still …
In sum, America was built by old white guys, IF you ignore the fact that much of it was built by females and people with pigmented skin.
Omnes Omnibus
@joel hanes: Also, they weren’t all that old during the Revolution.
SatanicPanic
I know a lot of conservatives find Chris Rock funny, probably for reasons that are very awkward for Chris Rock
jonas
@jl: Of course there’s a difference between a comic who happens to be politically conservative (e.g. Foxworthy, Drew Carey — a libertarian IIRC, Kelsey Grammar, et al.) and people who peddle right wing “humor” or “satire”, like Rush Limbaugh or Dennis Miller. Foxworthy I think tries to be “family friendly” rather than political in his act. His redneck schtick is pretty innocuous. Wev. Kelsey Grammar is a complete wingnut, but a fantastic comic actor who can occasionally poke fun at his own views (Sideshow Bob). But you’re right — right wing jokesters just try to put down things liberals value, like women, children and the environment, which inevitably is just about punching down at the poor and disadvantaged. In other words, being a complete tool.
Omnes Omnibus
@SatanicPanic: And very familiar to Mr. Rock.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@efgoldman:
Agnes Moorehead deserved a Golden Toothpick as well.
Gin & Tonic
I used to think I knew something about menswear. Now I’m finding that many of the rail-thin 20-something men are sporting suits with the jacket hem at the same level as their sleeves. I was taught that a proper jacket reaches to the first knuckle of the thumb. These wrist-length jackets generally don’t even cover the ass, and to me that looks foolish. Kids, lawn, clouds, I know. But I wonder if in 20 years this trend, or the pants that are 3 inches short of the top of the shoe, will look as ridiculous as late 1970’s suits look today.
NotMax
@Lamh36
Can’t recommend or lambaste it based on the little info so far, but might want to remember to keep an eye peeled for The Strain on F/X this summer (premieres July 13).
cckids
@lamh36:
Not me, or even my kids. My daughter read the first one at 11 with a reading group she was in, because all the other girls were loving it. She hated, hated, hated it then, and couldn’t believe it was made into a movie. To quote her ” How can they use that dialogue? Or even the story? It is SO STUPID”.
Truer words never spoken.
It was written by a Mormon chick, in case you couldn’t tell.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gin & Tonic: What you know has been true since lounge suits were invented. There were longer and short versions that have been fashionable. Me, I don’t buy fashionable; I buy classic. IMO, the classic versions are never “wrong;” they might not be depeche mode, but they are always acceptable.
mike in dc
I suspect that, of the comedians on the BCCT, that Ron White, easily the most talented of the 4, is not all that conservative, if you watch enough of his material. His delivery is awesome, though his lifestyle makes me worry he may check out early like far too many talented comedians have.
danielx
@Ruckus:
I have to disagree. Sarah Palin has been comedy gold since she first surfaced back in 2008, courtesy of Grandpa McCain…bless his heart. A lot of the Republican primary debates last time around produced some seriously funny moments – so okay, they also produced some horror show moments. Hey, let’s hear it for letting uninsured people die! That was evidently a real howler…to conservatives, anyway. Sounded like complete sociopathy to everybody else, but the target audience got off on it like nobody’s business.
SatanicPanic
@Gin & Tonic: Cutting edge is almost always going to look ridiculous in 20 years. Then again if you’re young you’re not thinking about 20 years, you’re thinking about looking the coolest today.
J.Ty
Had a four hour meeting. May have secured my dream job. Currently double-fisting. Not on benzo’s, don’t worry.
NotMax
So, Komen Klown Karen Handel, armed with an endorsement from Palin, failed to make the cut for the run-off in Georgia.
Mein freude, it is schadenned
Yatsuno
@NotMax: I saw no primary thread today. I am disappoint.
NotMax
@Yatsuno
Yup, seemed a rather glaring omission on such a busy primary day.
Gretchen
@J.Ty: good luck! Let us know what happens. We are sweating the daughter’s job search here she had two almosts. They decided not to fill one, and gave the other to the other applicant. Back to the resume board.
wasabi gasp
Then again, Hippie in a pickle if he wants a watermelon smashed.
Joel
@Suffern ACE: much is an overstatement. People don’t share pop culture like they used to. That’s why you won’t see another Beatles or Springsteen. As the “highest grossing” stand up, Dunham might be known by ~1% of Americans and that’s probably overstating it by a lot.
SectionH
@Yatsuno: Kentucky primary: Big Closet Guy wins for Big Money/Hypocrisy Party. Set up now for Young Woman on side of Better than That to have a decent chance at beating that disgusting old fart.
I’m kind of sorry Mitch won so handily, against the Teahadi dude, although I admit I have no real clue how to analyze it. Likely answer: a gazillion dollars vs chump change.
Money. I think it possibly is the root all of the evil future of this country. We’ve watched Mitch screw up occasionally, though. He spent so much money getting that senile old jock Bunning get re-elected that he let 2 or 3 other Senate races go to the Dems. We Know he’ll pull out all stops against Alison Grimes. I’d rather Kentucky takes back a seat for the Dems – that’ll freak the Village out fed shure – but even if she doesn’t win, she’ll have done us all well.
ruemara
Hell, I like Blue Collar Comedy tour. Check out Ron “Tater Salad” White on homophobia not making sense. You couldn’t ask for a more progressive argument.
I am going to bed. It was a strangely great to fantastic feeling morning but the product launch (es) had a number of glitches. Without a build, the fresh out the gate numbers did not happen. I suppose things could have been worse, as the person who was training me quit before doing training & her assistant quit because… reasons, so I had to take what was prepared and run with it. But I really did want it to go smoothly and it didn’t which bites. If I get let go, well, things happen but otherwise, I have tons to finish before Saturday, so I’m gonna snooze the fail feelings off and hit the ground running tomorrow. After I read some new books.
Comrade Luke
Anyone watching the Frontline episode(s) on the NSA? It’s just sickening. Everyone involved with the government just throws out “NATIONAL SECURITY!” to hide behind everything they’re doing. And they basically just tell the blood is on the hands of anyone who doesn’t give them complete free reign over anything they want, forever.
Omnes Omnibus
@ruemara: Honestly, some of the disapproval of some of these guys is classism. I don’t like it., nor do I actually like the jokes. OTOH, I don’t like the vicious humor of Ricky Gervais either, But then, who really cares what I like?
Ruckus
@danielx:
They aren’t funny. Sorry. They show their asses, they broadcast their stupidity, we laugh at them not because of their comedy but because they act like spoiled 5 yr olds without a single clue. We have to laugh at them or the reality that there are way too many people who think they are intelligent and should be in charge of anything would make a sane person slash their wrists at the very thought. Either that or water down their beers with tears of despair to such an extent that it would be undrinkable.
Joel
Any analysis of comedy, for what it’s worth, needs mention of Marc Maron and his amazing podcast.
ruemara
@Joel: I tried his podcast and couldn’t get through it. Which is odd, because I was a huge fan from his Air America days.
NotMax
Boy, the difference a director can make.
Both this week’s and last week’s Fargo were serviceable, but devoid of the finesse and artistry of the earlier episodes.
Different director next week, whom one hopes gets things back on a firmer off-kilter keel and is more fastidious about the use of brusque jump cuts..
Elizabelle
@gnomedad:
Too true.
I think the Benghazi obsession is a plea for celibacy.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@mike in dc:
I agree. White “punches up” against authority, relatives’ hypocrisy, etc. His “Tater Salad” thing is hilarious.
“I had the right to remain silent. I didn’t have the ability to remain silent.”
Anne Laurie
@mike in dc: I like Ron White, too — he reminds me of half the guys I grew up with, only funny.
Botsplainer
@SectionH:
Bevin’s campaign was amateur hour, is the answer. McConnell barely dented his war chest, while Bevin burned crazy cash pumping out the same mailers to households with a GOP registered voter for the past 3 weeks. My wife is still registered Republican (votes D), and got 3 of the same printed oversized cards over a 4 day stretch. While McConnell was quietly talking to business groups in Louisville, Lexington and Northern Kentucky, Bevin was tromping all over low turnout counties in Appalachian hollows (a Teahadi acquaintance of mine was a close coordinator), gun shows and making that gaffe at a pro cockfighting rally.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
I remember back in 2005 were the Fox News median age was 55. So their audiance is the same static group of people.
Chris
@SatanicPanic:
I heard somewhere that he didn’t want to do the “I love black people, but I hate n/gg/rs” routine, because after he did it the first time, some white people started thinking they had a license to say n/gg/r.
...now I try to be amused
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Apologies in advance for hair-splitting.
If the median age of Fox News views was 55 in 2005 and 68 in 2014, then the median age has gone up by 13 years in 9 years time. That does not look static to me. Is Fox losing younger people?
NonyNony
@…now I try to be amused:
Yes. Apologies for the HuffPo link, but they have the money quote:
They’re still the highest rated cable news channel in primetime for the 25-54 demographic, but their numbers in that demographic have been dwindling. Some of it is probably people aging out of the demographic, but as you say probably not all of it if the median age really is shifting.
dan
I have no doubt Dunham is the top grossing comedian. Keep in mind that before him, it was Carrot Top. So … lcd.
As a ventriloquist, Dunham is very talented. And his material is pretty funny. But every once in a while there is some joke with a subtle undertone of racism/jingoism/conservative talking pointism that makes me wince.
ThresherK
Jeff Dunham is a conservative?
Or more specifically, his comedy routines are?
I don’t know that he’d pass muster.
Show me the conservative who’s satisfied with Jose the Jalapeno (talking in Spanish with another character while Dunham professes to not know what’s being
said) or Achmed the ineffectual terrorist. He actually makes these things into characters. Trying to plaster conservatism onto it would be for crap.
(Also I loved his guest shot on 30 Rock when he played Jack Donaghy’s wet dream of a “real American” talent from Georgia–a place “more American” than
NYC–who proceeded to shoot down Liz Lemon’s heckling like any good standup. Can’t imagine Dunham did that unknowingly.)
PS Fox News’ audience is getting so old that they can’t measure its aging any longer because ratings companies don’t care the difference. It’s like telling a three year old that their grandpa is fifty-five or eighty-five–no distinction from that vantage point.