I vote for this one:
Suffern ACE says:
May 22, 2014 at 7:11 pmIs Clinton fatigue a real thing we have to worry about, like someone spoiling a movie we want to see, or something that’s fun to worry about but imaginary, like whether or not smart appliances will judge us and find us wanting?
***********
White House drama! Some guy got naked outside the white house!! #drama #whitehouse #thecopsbeathim #whitehouse pic.twitter.com/SbKW9IgJVX
— Whitehouse (@whphotos2013) May 23, 2014
.
Via NYMag. So… how are you gonna celebrate the start of the long holiday weekend?
jl
” like whether or not smart appliances will judge us and find us wanting? ”
Since when is that imaginary?
? Martin
Alt title: John Cole visits the White House. Offers to mop Obama’s bathroom.
jl
@? Martin: I guess Cole decided to quite wasting time worrying about insane GOP attacks on the random Democratic demon of the day, or next election, and showed up to help out.
He is an expert at naked pet-poop clean up mopping. Glad Cole is snapping out of it.
Amir Khalid
So is the naked-guy now under psychiatric evaluation while in police custody? Or will he be charged with a federal felony: showing his willy to a government facility, with malicious intent?
Joseph Nobles
He wants a white man in the White House and he’s demonstrating his qualifications.
SatanicPanic
Damn hippies get offa the White House lawn!
Ash Can
Is that Rand Paul?
Alce_y_Ardilla
My coffeemaker has already decided I don’t measure up, and has gone on strike.
jeffreyw
A family bought some ground behind me years ago and use it for a deer hunting spot and general get away from it all spot. They’ve been throwing a picnic every year for a good while now. I’m making a broccoli salad and a big pan of baked beans ahead of time. I’ll run some cabbages through the machine tomorrow and make a KFC copycat slaw. They usually buy more pork steaks than they need and I’ve made out like a bandit when they loaded me up with the excess more than a few times.
Hal
I just brought home a used mattress from a relatives house to use in place of the no good, very bad mattress I was sleeping. Far, far more comfortable than my old mattress except for one problem. The previous owner is a smoker, and I woke up today smelling like I went to bingo.
Does anyone know how to get this smell out? I’ve febreezed three times now, and I read using baking soda might help. I’ll try that next. Also, smoking is fucking nasty. Do people not realize how bad everything smells?
Howard Beale IV
Vacation time. Probably spend a day or two at a wolf preserve. Bringing my new camera along. Best take it now, ‘cuz the next three months (and especially the next three weeks after vacation) are gonna be hell at work.
SarahT
“…how are you gonna celebrate the start of the long holiday weekend?”
Broke, bored & cranky. Just like every other weekend.
some guy
Taking the kids to see XMen
SectionH
Tacos el Gordo in Chula for lunch, and then hanging at the Ballast Point place in Little Italy with my kid. First time I’ve been. I will return – it has wifi. Then back home to feed the kittehs, and get some design work done. Mr S is at a convention so I don’t have to be.
Tomorrow I get to tackle an ugly aspect of our business: inventory. But Sunday I’ll be hanging with son and granddaughter. (DiL’s at Wiscon for a well deserved break.)
Violet
Question: What would you do if you found out your barely-18 (so legally an adult, but actually an idiotic kid) child was stealing from you? Stole something worth something and sold it at a pawn shop. Family friends are having this problem and I want to be supportive but all I can think is, “Call the cops on him!” Not sure that’s the best move. Not sure what the right decision is.
Other items have gone missing from the house. Kid swears to know nothing about those. Pawn shops won’t give out info to parents because legally they can’t (not sure if that’s true but that’s what they were told). Parents don’t know if it’s a one time dumbass decision or a pattern. Based on what I know about this kid, my gut tells me it’s a pattern but there’s no proof.
Anyone have any insight?
Howard Beale IV
@Hal: You’re probably going to need to use something like this with some form of an oxi cleaner on the mattress top. The real problem though is the likelihood that the smoke has permeated inside the mattress-at which point the best you can try is to use some form of an ozone generator to force the smoke particulates to start to break down-but that’ll probably take a long time. You will probably want to get some kind of a mattress topper once you try to deal with the smell.
This is also a possibility to try to knock the smell out.
TaMara (BHF)
@Hal: White vinegar in a spray bottle, spritz lightly, let dry. Repeat as necessary. Vacuuming it would help, too.
If none of that helps, maybe a zipper cover or thick mattress pad.
Juju
@Amir Khalid: How do you know it was malicious?
Bill E Pilgrim
Woody Allen was there 50 years ago.
“Down South” and “The Moose”, also on that page, are two of the funniest things I’ve ever heard.
Howard Beale IV
@Violet: The question that needs to be asked is why is he/she doing this? What’s the reason for getting a quick buck?
burnspbesq
Celebrating an NCAA championship for Duke (women’s golf), hopefully the first of two this weekend.
opiejeanne
In tri-cities Wa with my daughters for a friend’s wedding. Tomorrow is the family barbecue, Sunday is the wedding. There are wineries all over the eastern slopes of the Cascades so we may visit a few on our way home.
Not Adding Much to the Community
Can we turn this into another Trigger Warning thread? I want Cassidy to appear and expose his ass to everyone again. Man, what a reprehensible piece of shite.
piratedan
obviously the guy is a day early for the OAS demonstration……
Hal
@Howard Beale IV:
A dining room table?
Thank you, I’ll be here all week!
Elmo
Trying to forget my job, at least for a little while. I’ve started grinding my teeth so much my jaws hurt. I drink too much. I’ve gained weight. And I don’t sleep well.
But I am really, really good at what I do.
SiubhanDuinne
Maybe I am old … yes, perhaps I am VERY old … but I never did understand why people thought they were making a political or social point by getting naked in public. Streaking was the big thing a few decades ago. I didn’t get it then. Now it’s just standing nekkid outside the WH. I don’t get it now.
Lawn, onions, uphillbothways. But seriously, what is the point?
gussie
@Violet: I’m not sure what I’d do, other than heartbreak, but I definitely WOULDN’T call the cops. There’s no telling what might happen then, but nothing good.
I’d probably say, ‘lock up everything you don’t want stolen.’ I suppose ‘talk to the kid’ isn’t particularly helpful.
Howard Beale IV
Here’s a nice little classical finale to start the long weekend.
Not Adding Much to the Community
@Hal: I inherited a mattress under similar conditions. I stood it out in the hot sun for a few hours, Febreezed the hell out it and also coated it in baking soda for a few hours, then vacuumed it off. It still smelled like cigarette smoke, though not badly enough to get through a couple of layers of sheets and comforters. And no, you never realize how badly it stinks until you quit.
SiubhanDuinne
@SarahT:
There.
Roger Moore
@Hal:
I think destroying the sense of smell is one of the side effects of smoking.
Howard Beale IV
@Hal: Uh, not quite. Try this link instead, you nano-cephalic philistine (grin).
NotMax
The 26th is too early a date for Memorial Day, Monday holidays gone wild.
Hilfy
@Hal: Try heavy duty carpet cleaner, follow the directions. You’d need to clean both top and bottom, and doing the edges would be good. Air the mattress thoroly… maybe point a fan at it. Good luck.
Violet
@Howard Beale IV: I don’t know why. I do know that the kid is terrible with money. Goes through it like water through a sieve. Gets money for Christmas or birthday and it’s gone in a day. The other kid is not like that at all, so I don’t think it’s only a parenting/family issue. That may be a contributing factor, but there has to be something else at play. Kid has always been like that, even when young.
Don’t think drugs or alcohol are involved. Doesn’t seem to be evidence supporting that. Kid spent the money from the pawn shop on stuff that was really obvious to the parents so that’s how they figured it out.
Elmo
@gussie: agree with you on NO COPS. That takes the situation entirely out of their hands and puts it in the hands of strangers with guns.
How many disturbed young men have been killed that way?
Roger Moore
@Juju:
He looked at the picture. A guy like that getting naked is either crazy or malicious; he sure as hell isn’t both sane and thinking he’s doing the world a favor.
Violet
@gussie: They’ve locked up everything they think could be taken easily. They’re devastated, of course. Kid is a nice kid but a fuckup. But the kid stole, then lied about it, then got caught and admitted it. Trust has been lost. It’s a mess. Sometimes tough love is the hardest and best kind of all–as in calling the cops and making it clear how the real world works. But I don’t know if that’s just going to destroy the rest of the kid’s life. Ugh. What a mess.
Bob In Portland
Mnems says there are no Nazis in Ukraine and that I just call Ukrainians I don’t like Nazis.
This. This is apparently not enough for Mnems to call a Nazi so maybe Mnems can come up with a better term.
Also, burnspbesq claims that the helicopters that shot their own soldiers near Donetsk were possibly hijacked by the rebels. Here’s the video.
I said a couple of days ago that it looked like a false flag operation. I believe Gin dissed me for that. If you recall, the official story out of Kiev was that the rebels attacked the guard post. There was no mention of helicopters attacking the troops. So is the coup government in Kiev covering up for the rebels flying helicopters or what?
It sure looks like at least friendly fire if not a false flag operation. Not a rebel to be seen.
I realize that some apologists for the coup government will try to invent a story here. Remember the “official” story. If the official story is not true, the Kiev government, abetted by our State Dept. and news media, lied to you.
Is everyone here at Balloon Juice a true believer? Why? And doesn’t Hunter Biden look good in a suit?
Howard Beale IV
@Violet: That’s a tough one. Unfortunately, it may actually take the parents to report the thefts to get said spawn to recognize that he’s travelling down a bad road. Many of the pawn shops check that what they are taking in haven’t been reported as stolen-if the items aren’t being reported as stolen then the parents are tacitly allowing this behavior to occur-not a good thing.
shelley
My microwave is going out with the next donation to the Vets, and I think it’s starting to suspect.
Bex
@Violet: Sounds like the kid has a drug problem. Don’t think he/she can be forced into rehab at 18, and if he won’t go to family counseling, the parents need to go anyway.
Cacti
@Bob In Portland:
Hodor!
Roger Moore
@Violet:
Not to stomp on your story, but I would like to interject that this shows just how fucked up our society is. Yes, stealing is wrong, but one brush with the law shortly after a kid reaches adulthood shouldn’t be enough to permanently ruin his life. If we had a sane justice system, people wouldn’t be afraid to report petty crime out of fear that it would ruin the life of the accused. The job of the courts should be to set this kid back on the straight and narrow, not to eject him from polite society and make sure he can never rejoin it.
Bob In Portland
@Cacti: Hodor!
Violet
@Howard Beale IV: Yeah, that’s the tactic I’ve taken. The kid has never been good at understanding how rules work and now that problem has graduated to not understanding how laws work. I see problems in the future unless a big fat wake up call is given.
It would be a first offense and maybe some arrangement could be made with the judge for the kid to get off with community service or something. I don’t know how this sort of thing works. Parents of course want the best future for the kid and don’t want to completely destroy any chance of that by doing some tough-love thing like calling the cops now.
Keith G
One man’s somber reflection on his unknown soldier.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Violet:
The young man is eighteen years old. If he’s gone along that far in life and yet he is so self-centered that he finds it necessary to steal from his parents to buy crap for himself then he needs some serious straightening out. I’d offer him three choices;
Go to jail.
Join the service.
Hit the bricks and try stealing from someone else.
Talking to him isn’t going to do shit. Lock up everything of value? Who the fuck wants to live like that?
gussie
@Violet: Well, admittedly I’m more Jew Dad than Tiger Mom, but my kid would have to stab me a second time before I called the cops. Cops don’t solve problems–at best, they remove them. I just don’t see an upside.
Sounds like maybe they’ve just got to suffer with this for a few years, until the kids grows up a bit? Friend of mine gave their kid an ultimatum, and he joined the Navy. He was still a fuckup, but at least farther away.
Violet
@Bex: There is no sign of a drug or alcohol problem. Kid is kind of stupid and wouldn’t be very good at covering up something like that, imho. The money was spent on dumb stuff like going out to dinner, some shiny new clothes and trinkets, etc. Really obvious stuff that sent the parents looking for how that extra money was acquired. Oh, and kid gave a really dumbass cover story on how the money was acquired. Kid has zero idea of how to do this kind of thing and get away with it, which is a good thing I guess.
Ultraviolet Thunder
Just arrived in Dallas with a German colleague to whom I’m trying to explain Texas. I’m not doing well at that. I’ll be here until Weds, when I go to Kokomo. Fun work holiday!
Chyron HR
@Bob In Portland:
Someone somewhere has a swastika tattoo! Checkmate, anti-Putinites!
Ruckus
@Violet:
Decades ago, if you lived in a small town, calling the cops may have worked. Any more? How can you tell how they’d react or what they might do? If it is serious then that’s different, if it continues, then that’s different. Counseling? Not if the kid doesn’t want to go, he is 18 and unless he wanted to it wouldn’t work anyway. Kick him out of the house? How long would he last on his own? If he is stealing from home how long would it be before he got caught stealing from someone else and most likely by the cops?
This is modern problem but I don’t know of any modern solutions, certainly not any good ones, sorry.
ETA Higgs went there. Have a friend who went into the Marines instead of jail. Worked on him, maybe that’s an option.
Higgs Boson's Mate
I’m going to spend some time thinking about the men and women who have gone to war. I’ll be thinking of those who didn’t make it home, some of whom I served with, and those who did though broken in mind or body.
Violet
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Those are the exact three options the parents are considering. They’re holding out for high school graduation so as not to take away that milestone. That’s one more week. Then I think they’ll go for informing the kid those are the options. It’s going to be rough.
I’ve known this kid since birth. Good kid at heart. Total dumbshit. Always has been. But knows right from wrong generally. I never would have guessed the kid would go in this direction.
Bob In Portland
Mnems, you want this?
mdblanche
Virginia Delegate Bob Marshall (R-because of course) wants to impeach Attorney General Mark Herring for failing to defend the state’s gay marriage ban.
He’s even got a petition going that’s attracted some attention.
Bob In Portland
@Chyron HR: It’s too bad we can’t demand that all Ukrainians take off their shirts for you. But you can look at the quotes from the Svoboda leaders who are holding ministries. But then that would just be ministers. Not everybody.
Thou shalt not be a victim.
Thou shalt not be a perpetrator.
And above all,
Thou shalt not be a bystander
-Yahuda Bower
Chyron, you are a bystander. A conformist. An intellectual coward.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Violet:
It’s going to be heartbreaking for the parents. To me, waiting just means that one day they will find that their son has stolen an ATM card, a credit card, or flogged their car to someone shady. At that point the situation may be taken out of their hands anyway with far worse consequences for the kid.
Howard Beale IV
@Violet:
My brother had to deal with a stepson who dropped a baby in his lap-it took two decades, but the step-grandson graduated from Army boot camp.
It may take that kind of shock therapy to straighten out the offender.
Just Some Fuckhead
Is Cheney fatigue a thing? Because I think I got it. Also, I’m pretty sure I got Paul fatigue also.
Higgs Boson's Mate
Oh goody; The Conscience of Balloon Juice has ridden his hobbyhorse into another thread.
Keith G
@Bob In Portland:
Of course there are Nazis in Ukraine.
Hell Bob, there are Nazis in Mayberry (Floyd and Goober look very serious in their leather SS drag). What’s your point?
It’s a boarder state between two geo-political spheres of influence. And it’s an area that has been abused with exponential terror by both the swastika crowd and the hammer the cycle crew (and the Nordic Rus and the Tartars and probably Comcast). Putin’s nationalist masturbatory adventure designed to engorge his
membersupport at home has not helped to make the Ukraine a better place. He may not be the only bad actor there, but he has caused the most harm.I’d suggest you give it a rest, but it’s a holiday and I want to to feel good about yourself.
Ruckus
@Violet:
I will say that the service is probably the best option. A chance to get out of the house, which may be a part of the problem, even if the problem is all biased on the kids side. On the other hand the service may not want him, which then limits the options. It is a bad situation, the only answers are relatively bad and worse.
Certified Mutant Enemy
So… how are you gonna celebrate the start of the long holiday weekend?
Looks like getting naked in front of the White House is off the table…
mdblanche
@Cacti: I’m probably missing a reference but what is Hodor? Is it Ukrainian for Boners?
Ruckus
@Keith G:
Why?
Why engage him?
Why do you say you want him to feel good, even if being sarcastic?
Just Why? Going for the better person award of the day?
rikyrah
Someone wrote in another post that I cut a general brush on Libertarians and that they don’t live in the real world.
Well, I stand by that.
Rand Paul and his Daddy, Ron-Libertarian Heroes – have said, on more than one occasion, that they wouldn’t have voted for the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act.
When confronted with the ACTUALITY of American Apartheid, that existed in this country for nearly 100 years, post Civil War,
they respond with some pie in the sky fantasy rationalizations for their decisions.
I am Black.
I cannot indulge in such fantasies.
Not when my ancestors who were at the receiving end of the American Apartheid in this country.
Not when my father would have been 42 YEARS OLD, if he had stayed in the state of his birth, before he would have been ALLOWED TO CAST A VOTE in this country, AFTER he had put on the uniform and put his life on the line for the same country that had him as a second class citizen in the laws of this country.
Rand Paul – just LAST WEEK was defending STATES RIGHTS and the Voter ID Laws.
I understand those who would vote against what freed Black folks -LEGALLY – WITHIN THE RULE OF LAW……are my enemies.
I will not listen to anything else they have to say.
The Koch Brothers are libertarians.
Absolutely, positively their vision of America is horrifying, and only those detached from reality with more money than God to cushion that reality, could even see that world.
Anne Laurie
@Violet:
Has kid been tested for ADHD / neurological issues?
If it’s not a deliberate “acting out” thing, he’s old enough that he should have been able to follow the logic chain, he’s not using it for drugs… that sounds like a brain problem. If the family doctor can’t help, maybe the parents should get a “behavioral health” referral, if only to make sure it’s not something needs more treatment than Growthefvckup.
If the kid hadn’t spent the money on stuff that the parents saw, I’d worry he was giving it to someone (pregnant girlfriend, school bully, friend who’s got an addiction problem). But if it’s just “seemed like a good idea at the time”, and it’s not neurological, going into the Army/Navy/etc doesn’t sound like a bad option…
Cacti
@mdblanche:
I’m probably missing a reference but what is Hodor? Is it Ukrainian for Boners?
A character on Game of Thrones who is simple minded and never says anything besides his name (Hodor).
BIP is our resident Hodor, whose communications here are pretty much limited to vomiting up whatever the official Kremlin line of the day is.
Baud
Just cause they call it Obamacare doesn’t mean Obama will be performing the physical.
Some people.
Keith G
@Violet:
Things that serious rarely spring up from nothing.
Police are a no no unless imminent serious danger is a fear. The wrong cop shows up and they will be burying their son.
My 2 cents: Confront will love (not recrimination) and the steely determination that behavior will change. Set up a contract, so to speak. Assuming he wants to be part of the family, he needs to be given a plan to win back the trust that he threw away.
It’s about being loving, honest, considerate, and very determined….and about taking the time to help look at the underlying issue that brings this behavior. Since he is eighteen, he can not be treated as a child and he needs to understand that his access to the support of a loving family is at stake. (are they a loving family?)
Family counseling can be a way to get to those other issues.
MikeJ
@Anne Laurie:
Because if there’s one type of person we need trained in effective killing…
Shana
@Violet: I have a nephew like that. Peed in the corner our carpeted bathroom for an entire weekend instead of the much easier to reach toilet at the age of 5 as just one minor example. Unfortunately he went downhill from there and ended up as a junkie although he’s been clean now for over a year. I recommend a no bullshit confrontation by the parents.
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
Agree with you.
The world they want is not based in any form of reality, and only exists in the mind of some that never passed the maturity of a 14 yr old. A deluded 14 yr old who thinks that if everyone else would just think like him, the world would be a bright and shinny place. Which it maybe would, for about 10 people.
SiubhanDuinne
@Howard Beale IV:
Mahler FTW!
Sly
I did the White House tour about 15 years ago and there was a Satanist outside the main gate, wearing a red lycra jumpsuit with little felt horns and a tail, commanding everyone to fall to their knees and thank the Dark Lord for the nice spring weather.
Best part of the tour by far.
Howard Beale IV
@Keith G: This line of attack will only be successful if there is no addiction involved. If addictions is involved, then the hammer has to drop.
Baud
@Sly:
So, did you thank Cheney?
Kay
@Violet:
I’d avoid that. Parents do it because they’re fed up or they think the kid needs 3 days in jail or whatever, but that isn’t what happens. What happens is he walks into the big legal machine and gets churned like everyone else and they have absolutely no control of the outcome. He can be charged with a felony in this state depending on value of the stolen item, etc. He’ll find it difficult to get out of the court/probation system once he’s in it, and there’s not much lesson value in it for him or them. They can probably come up with a better way for him to make restitution if they still have any sway over him at all, he’ll maybe actually learn something, and he won’t have a criminal record or the dreaded felony record which will follow him like a curse.
Find out why he’s stealing, why he needs the money. Someone knows, probably a lot of someones. They’re not the most canny criminals, the youths :)
Anne Laurie
@MikeJ: Well, some people need the kind of rigorously-enforced boundaries, combined with a sense of actual purpose, for which armed forces are famous. I seem to remember an individual bearing a certain resemblance to our Bloghost who went from being an abusive Deadhead jackhole to a more-or-less functional member of society, courtesy of the tank service, for instance.
If “Tha Surge” was still a possibility, it wouldn’t be much of a chance for the kid. But if it’s just a case of needing More Structure (break the rules, pay the penalty; do the job, get the reward) there’s plenty people have succeeded who weren’t otherwise doing so good in civilian life.
Roger Moore
@Keith G:
Recently. Hoo-boy if you want to look further back in time.
SectionH
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: That was literally a sobering comment. Thanks. (Well, I was just a bit cheerful – see comment above – but yeah.)
satby
@gussie: yeah, that’s wrong. I might make out a police report on the theft, and mention the pawn shop seems to have the same thing that was stolen without explicitly saying the kid took it; but if an investigation ends up nailing the kid so be it. That stuff just escalates if there are no consequences. 18 is old enough to know not to steal, he’s banking on getting away with it.
Howard Beale IV
@SiubhanDuinne: Ah-yep. The master of the counterpoint. The best 3rd I ever heard on a recording was Tennsted with the Phailharomina, and I was at a live performance at Ravinia with Esenabch.
gbear
@Violet:
Is he a record collector?
Keith G
@Howard Beale IV: So much depends on the previous state of the relationships within the family – how much emotional capital exists.
It might be the acting out of an issue that has been sub rosa for years. It’s always nice to see parents take the time to adopt a positive attitude and inventory what actually is going on. – says a guy who spent 20+ years working with older teens in public education
The horror stories get the attention, while little light is shed on the hours of dedicated work and hard choices most families have to face when a family member begins to engage in repetitive bad personal choices.
JPL
@Violet: It’s a difficult situation and one with no easy answers. A friend dealt with a similar situation but it was because of drug use. I hope that the family will go to counseling because eighteen is to young of an age to throw away.
satby
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: This.
I had lots of foster kids, most were thrown out by their parents. Lots of problems, but it does them no favors to let stealing (or assaults, or other lawbreaking) slide. The older they get the more permanent the consequences. A first and only offense at 18 won’t really ruin anyone’s life, assuming he straighteners out.
For the record, I had to call the cops on my own gang once, and one was picked up hanging out with a kid who had just robbed (then) Mayor Daley’s secretary’s apartment, unknown to my nimrod. Both times were no fun; 10 years later no one has a record and they all are reasonably upstanding citizens. As my youngest said at the time: “you can do a lot of thinking in handcuffs.”
Suffern ACE
Why doesn’t the stealing kid have a job?
Also, too, I might ask said kid why he buys. It sounds to me like he likes buying more than others, to the extent that he’s willing to ruin the good gig that he has to buy things. Too much pleasure from buying for that one. If he’s always been that way, I might figure out why that is.
trollhattan
@Violet:
Friends had this very thing happen and it turned out the boy had a very hidden, very serious drug problem.
Intervention, including testing, NOW. His life may well depend on it.
some guy
Don’t worry Bob, Cacti is just upset because his alQaeda pals only got to kill 20 today in Deraa. Once they get to behead some nurse or school teacher he will be back to his old self
Howard Beale IV
@Keith G: The reason why I take the tack about addiction is that addiction doesn’t fit the mold of being a disease.
jl
@Keith G:
” Putin’s nationalist masturbatory adventure designed to engorge his support at home has not helped to make the Ukraine a better place. He may not be the only bad actor there, but he has caused the most harm. ”
I mostly agree with you, but I think Vlad has come clean about his motivations. It’s about NATO expansion to Ukraine, which he has pretty much made clear is something Russia cannot accept. Vlad took the first big step at coming clean during some diplomatic yap fest a few weeks ago, and I guess it was a big relief to him. Now he talks about the NATO thing repeatedly.
I think when Putin talks about the current Ukrainian regime being illegitimate, that is code for a Ukrainian government that is likely to take next step towards NATO membership. Putin is talking up the upcoming Ukrainian presidential election like it will be best thing since sliced bread. And maybe it will be in his view, unless it looks like might want NATO membership after it is installed, in which case Putin will surely find something wrong with it, and stir up more trouble in Russian heavy parts of Ukraine.
Personally, I think the U.S. is playing he same game. I find it hard to believe that they really care much about democracy or the welfare of the people, they want NATO up Russia’s ass.
Call me cynical, maybe.
El Caganer
@rikyrah: The Pauls are not libertarians. They’re Confederates.
El Caganer
@Bob In Portland: You’re going to Ukraine for Memorial Day? How fortunate for you!
Roger Moore
@jl:
It’s not just NATO. The thing that precipitated the current crisis in Ukraine was attempts by the Ukrainian government to form closer economic ties with the EU. Putin responded by giving an ultimatum that Ukraine could either get help from Russia or help from the EU, but it couldn’t get help from both. He clearly wants Russia to be surrounded by a ring of satellite states that are effectively under his thumb.
burnspbesq
@Bob In Portland:
Every time you write the words “coup government,” you make it clear one more time that your objectivity is for shite. You’re a Putin shill. Everybody sees it but you. Just stop. Give it up. No one is paying attention to anything you write here.
Roxy
” like whether or not smart appliances will judge us and find us wanting? ”
A Twilight Zone episode, “A Thing About Machines” certainly judged one person
mdblanche
@Cacti: Ah. Thanks.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@Violet:
I have the same question as Anne Laurie: he should be tested for ADHD at a minimum, and probably bipolar as well. This can be a condition of his parents NOT calling the cops. If he refuses to be tested, then Officer Friendly comes by with the handcuffs.
I also agree with the others that addiction is the most likely explanation, but he needs to be tested for ADHD and bipolar as well because underlying psychiatric issues can make trying to treat addiction a nightmare.
Suffern ACE
@jl: I really would like hearings on that. But no. Frankly, I think the Europeans are getting off Scott free in the blame game. I think we are doing things to appease some of the Eastern members of NATO. There is no reason why the US should give two flying spoons whether Ukraine is in the EU. Ukraine was not going to be in NATO. I think this has more to do with EU business than NATO and always has, but because so many NATO members are EU members, it’s difficult for us to tell the issues apart.
raven
@Howard Beale IV: Shit, I was in all kinds of trouble, so much that they made me go in the Army on my 17th birthday. They were gonna do this and that, make a man out of me, straighten my shit out, they wouldn’t take my smart mouth. The whole thing made me worse. I had no moral compass and I did the first thing that popped into my head. I don’t buy any of it, if I was black I’d still be in the stockade.
Bob In Portland
@Keith G: Look, I just come here and mention the latest that isn’t mentioned in the western press. The US helped to overthrow an elected (though corrupt) government in order to install another group of oligarchs along with the fascist street thugs in order to provide a thorn in Russia’s side and maybe make a few bucks while they’re at it. Certainly, our oil oligarchs want to.
The fascists in the current Kiev government want to settle scores, and the way things are in Ukraine these scores go back hundreds of years. Western Ukraine’s fascists have pretty much isolated the ethnic Russians of eastern and southern Ukraine. There is no way that Ukraine can hold together now. And that was our State Department’s intent. Maybe you enjoy a war going on all the time. I don’t. Maybe you enjoy your tax dollars killing people over there. I don’t.
I came into this emerging crisis with a knowledge of the US’s long history of collaboration with the Nazis in Ukraine. Did you know that the CIA supported an insurgency in Ukraine that lasted from WWII into the fifties with the OUN/B? Did you know that we worked with Nazi collaborators because they were “anti-Communist” (in reality anti-Russian)? Did you know the part played by Nazis in Radio Free Europe in the fifties and sixties and beyond? Did you know about the Ukrainian fascists in Reagan’s administration, or the fascists in George H. W. Bush’s Republican ethnic heritage collection? The Ukrainian fascists have been a part of the most disgusting dark corners of our CIA since WWII.
Maybe you can’t get worked up that America is supporting some of the most despicable people in the world since WWII in order to promote our corporate goals across the globe? It bothers me.
Maybe you should have a joint statement something like this: “We at Balloon Juice don’t give a shit that our tax dollars are supporting fascists around the globe. We don’t give a shit that innocent people will be killed because of our inattention. When it becomes popular enough that the majority on the Left actually notices then maybe we’ll notice. And then we’ll wring our pathetic little hands and blame John McCain.”
Or have Cole ban me for being an irritant. I’ve come to Balloon Juice for years, I’m guessing a decade. I know I was reading it before Cole flipped to the other side of the aisle. I am continually amazed how easy it has been for you people to be sucked into another war. My entire adult life has been watching my fellow citizens sucked into that good ol’ war spirit, and now that our State Department has identified Putin as this year’s Hitler I guess I should have expected nothing more than this. That’s why I keep asking the question that no one here seems able to answer: When did you figure out that our government was lying to us about the last ten wars? You tell me. Did you protest against invading Iraq before we did? If not, how long did you bite your tongue?
So, no, I want the occasional open-minded person who reads Balloon Juice to follow a link I post.
A couple days ago a Ukrainian guard post was attacked. The Kiev government blamed rebels. I posted a video of Ukrainian helicopters attacking their own troops. At least one of the regulars here was willing to try to invent some kind of explanation (rebels must have hijacked the helicopters).
No, they lied to you, and the New York Times repeated those lies.
But why would sheep want to admit that they are sheep? We are having a holiday weekend to celebrate the lives lost so that our corporations could profit around the world. Get the barbecue fired up, just like those freedom-loving lads fired up the union trade building in Odessa.
What am I asking? Don’t presume you are being told the truth. Don’t presume that anything that may put the ethnic Russians or Russia or Putin in a (relatively) better light than the gang in Kiev must be false.
I realize it’s hopeless. I faced the same thing at the beginning of the Iraq war, although the US government did not have the benefit of a century of anti-Russian propaganda in which to wrap itself on that one. So go ahead ignore it until you can’t ignore it. There will be more deaths of American soldiers to celebrate next year.
raven
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): ADHD my butt, he’s a hunter in farmers world (thank you Thom Harrtman).
jl
@Roger Moore: Yes Putin did say that. He also said it was about protecting oppressed Russians in the Ukraine and elsewhere. He also said that, gee, just us Russian naval base security forces in Crimea. I think it was BS.
Except to the extent, from time I spent in Baltics, how much EU and NATO membership go together in the minds of the western friendly populations and policy debate. If Putin can somehow be satisfied that there will be no NATO, I think he will be less concerned about where the loans and bailouts come from.
@Suffern ACE: Maybe so, but Putin seems to think it’s about NATO. And Putin has the ability to inject oppressed Russian ‘Ukrainians’ into Ukraine, intimidate and seize by force, blow-up stuff and kill people there without much opposition.
Edit: Sorry, i did not pay enough attention to your final observation: “but because so many NATO members are EU members, it’s difficult for us to tell the issues apart.” Yes, I think that is it exactly.
But then, I don’t think the Baltics, Hungary or Poland should be in NATO. Sorry, but I am not a big fan of U.S. NATO expansion policy since the end of the Cold War (or at least the quai-military phase of the Cold War, since it might not have really ended)
Higgs Boson's Mate
And a mighty wind of tl;dr blows through BJ.
raven
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Do you know about the Coconut Monk?
Kay
@raven:
They don’t do it anymore. The military doesn’t want the court system’s problems, and if they do go into the military with big issues they just end up in trouble in the military.
Suffern ACE
@Roger Moore: yes. The former Ukraine was trying to play that game like it was 1984 and you could play one group off another and suction cash off both parties. Let’s not pretend that the dearly departed leader hadn’t received aid before from both sides and enriched itself. It’s not like this all started in February.
raven
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: He had a floating temple near My Tho. This guy was MACV and has the most incredible pictures of the Delta I have seen.
Violet
@Anne Laurie:
Kid’s been tested for various stuff. Not sure about the ADHD specifically, but there’s dyslexia and some other issue that I can’t remember the name of. So they’ve been responsible in getting testing done. I suspect there is a neurological component, but I don’t know if, at 18, they can do much about testing now. They don’t have a lot of money for testing either. Red state problems too–no social services support for this kind of thing.
@Suffern ACE:
Kid does have a job. Fast food type. Usual job for a high school student–part time, after school.
raven
@Kay: You don’t have to tell me. I looked at enlistment and attrition studies and they got real choosy after the Nam. They lightened up a bit at the peak of this current shit but with the RIF’s coming they are very particular again.
eta, you knew that anyway come to think of it!
Bob In Portland
@burnspbesq: How did the current government come to power? What has happened to the Party of Regions’ headquarters since this current government came to power? What happened to the judges who ruled that Yanukovich’s impeachment did not conform to the law of Ukraine?
The acting President, the ministers he government has appointed, by what Ukrainian constitutional authority are they in power?
You probably can’t answer those questions because you’re trained to turn off your mind when contrary things are put before you. You are a sheep. A conformist.
Why do you give a shit about Putin and where he sits on the scale of good and evil?
No one is impartial.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@raven:
We visited the (I believe it was called) Floating Pagoda. Didn’t meet the Coconut Monk, did meet some of his followers. Hey, ya’ have boats, may as well use ’em for fun once in a while. One of the best things I saw on patrol there was a tiny island upriver where a Buddhist monk had secluded himself. He made all sorts of fanciful things from Papier Mâché, painted them in vivid colors, and festooned all of the trees on the island with them. It was a hell of a sight.
raven
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Cool! I had never heard of him until I read John Steinbeck Jr’s book. They made us turn right and go to Dong Tam, Vinh Long and Can Tho. Never got to My Tho.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@raven:
Wow! A thousand thanks! Brings back some of my better memories of the Delta. Good to see that it still has that wonderful, slightly hallucinatory vibe for me.
Suffern ACE
@jl: yep. I agree. I’m not a fan of the NATO expansion. Never was. But then, well, if you want Poland to send troops to Iraq in your coalition of the willing, you need to offer it some protection for its real security concerns.
raven
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: They are scans of this fellows slides from 69. He has a couple hundred shots of the delta, roads I drove and rivers you ran.
Cassidy
@Not Adding Much to the Community: Do me a favor. Get a piece of rebar, firmly place it into the ground, then jam your mouth onto it as hard as you can.
Kay
@raven:
Yeah, I think it’s kind of a myth that they take people who are going to be problems. That hasn’t been my experience. They have years and years and years of experience in figuring out who is likely to take to that training in a way that brings them the most benefit with the least complications.
It’s harder than it was for them, now, I think, than it maybe was for older people (you and me both). They don’t have as much room for error before they’re in serious trouble, partly, I think, because they keep them on court supervision so long that they inevitably screw up and what would be a minor thing if they weren’t already in the system becomes a series of violations of whatever the terms of the supervision are. Some of them can’t find their way out of it, and when you harken back to whatever offense started this cycle they’re in you can’t believe this years-long ordeal started with something like taking a bike from someone’s shed or something.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@raven:
I preferred the open river to the the road. OTOH, snaking down a canal not much wider than your boat was often a motherfucker.
raven
@Kay: The experience with Project 100,000 combined with the cost of training made them take a good hard look at who to, and not to, take. GED grads had a 40% chance of not finishing their tours so that was one really easy recruitment criteria.
raven
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Especially before they defoliated the banks! I guess the best thing that could be said is that you squids had phenomenal armament!
Bob In Portland
@El Caganer: No, I’ve already served my time, back in the Vietnam Era. But don’t worry, American blood will be shed, if not on the battlefield then in another meal program cut to feed the war machine. Enjoy. Get that grill going and think about how the Nazis in Odessa shot at people hanging out windows of the union trade building trying to breathe as the fires crept up the stairs towards them. They were just damned Putinistas, hardly even human. Sort of like napalm in the morning.
Bob In Portland
@Suffern ACE: Did you want Poland to send troops to Iraq for the Coalition of the Willing? It was a fig leaf of international solidarity for our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. I guess we can expect a lot of Ukrainians to be serving the empire in the next war in Mongolia or wherever there’s Texas tea bubbling up from the ground.
Ruckus
@raven:
Amazing pics. I’ve seen many of Vietnam and it is a beautiful country when bullets aren’t flying everywhere. The last 5 yrs of my dad’s life he lived in an Alzheimer’s home run by 2 Vietnamese women. They were a wonderful find in this world.
Bob In Portland
@Ruckus: Really, if we all ignore him that it didn’t happen.
Your country is stirring up the shit again. People are dying. But please, Ruckus, let’s ignore it over the Memorial Day Weekend so that nothing gets in the way of our celebrating Americans who died for the empire and its corporate constituents.
Kay
@raven:
On that subject! I’m fascinated with this:
Our local free GED tutor is actually a rather unstable, unhinged person – I know her outside her job – which is unfortunate.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@raven:
Uh-huh. What was your TOVA score, again?
It’s great to say “hunter in a farmer’s world” when you don’t have to punch in at a job every day, but some of us are stuck doing that, like it or not. And I got really tired of constantly being on the edge of getting fired because I couldn’t remember things my boss asked me to do.
Ruckus
@Kay:
During Vietnam they pretty much took anyone who could walk in the recruiting office that wasn’t a felon. And some that were. But that was then and this isn’t the same. If a kid is just acting out and has no record the military might take him and might be able to straighten him out for a while. But he is young and once out of initial training things can get a lot less structured. Not like being on your own but less. If what he needs is strong structure, he may still not get enough even in the military.
It is a tough position to be in as parents. You must see a lot of kids that don’t want to fit into their parents life and act out, or kids that have a crappy home life and just will do almost anything to make it different. The hard one must be where parents are trying and doing their best and the kid just doesn’t care. Was discussing primary education and kids that don’t fit in this afternoon with some one raised in europe and found out that it really wasn’t a lot different than what I experienced 50 yrs ago. I wonder how much it has really changed since then.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@raven:
Our PBR carried the standard twin .50s in a tub forward, a single .50 with a shield aft, and a pair of M60s mounted on pintles port and starboard. I usually ran one of the 60s, didn’t have the patience for our ground-pounder .50s. Throw in couple of thumpers, a brace of 16s, grenades, pop-up flares and anything else we thought would be handy and yes, we were heavily armed.
2liberal
how to redact “bob in portland maine”
visit Cleeks site
http://ok-cleek.com/blogs/?page_id=19041
and install
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Bob In Portland:
Speaking as a combat veteran who lost friends over there, I would very much appreciate it if you’d cut that crap out ’til Tuesday you stupid, long-winded, obsessed, asshole, motherfucker.
El Caganer
@Bob In Portland: If your point is that the US has no legitimate interests over there and should butt out, I certainly agree. Putin is certainly no liberal hero (Russia’s ‘managed democracy’ seems a lot bigger on the ‘management’ than on the ‘democracy’); he’s basically an authoritarian with some fascistic tendencies himself. That being said, there’s still no reason for us to be fucking around over there. It certainly isn’t out of concern for the Ukrainians.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@2liberal:
Than you for reminding me of cleek’s excellent script. Just installed it. I don’t mind so much when someone flings poo at the living. Flinging it at the dead is an indication of just how fucked up that one individual has become.
Kay
@Ruckus:
I was pretty arrogant and judgmental about parenting because I had two really easy kids, completely different, but both easy to raise. and then I had our third, who was not easy. He’s great – he’s a loyal friend and very sweet in a lot of ways, he was the most affectionate of all of them, but he is impulsive in a way that seems to spring from his spinal cord rather than any thought process. He’s doing okay, he’s never been in any major trouble but he’s still nuts. Our long term employee is married to a cop and she and her husband have known my son since Joe was three years old. Joe once handed this cop, a guy who brings me mulch every summer and is in our office twice a week, a fake ID outside a party. This is the sort of magical thinking this person engages in :)
ruemara
I will spend part of my time getting my house back to clean since my roommate does nothing. And I have to craft a schedule for a sale campaign. This goes with the apology I had to write for not knowing things. I wish there was some booze in the house.
Suffern ACE
@El Caganer: nope. While this administration has been less busybody oriented than the last, it seems we can’t ever get that out of our system. I think they must teach that at Kennedy School or something.
Strategically, we need Ukraine like any number of holes in our head. Ukraine in the EU? Well who cares. But Ukraine in a civil war is a much bigger concern. I’m still not certain if it is our concern.
Kay
@Ruckus:
Most of them are trying and probably all of them would say they are doing their best, and they may be, whatever “their best” is. I hate those sayings “you never get more than you can handle” or “whatever doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” because plenty of people get more than they can handle. It’s just a blatantly untrue thing to say! :)
Ruckus
@Kay:
I wonder what actually goes through some peoples minds, if anything at all. Had a discussion today with a friend I’ve known for over 20 yrs and he is sort of the same way as your son. A lot older now but he likes to try things and enjoy life. I’m the kind of person who has had life enjoy me, so to speak, we come at the world from opposite directions. It’s fun to discuss what we’ve done, why and how we look at what life has thrown us. I’ll bet your son enjoys life, being what sounds like a pretty free thinker. As for the ID he probably thinks if I try this and fail, what’s it really going to cost me? And if it works, party! Or as you say, he just goes for the moment. Sometimes those are the best days. I had one of those yesterday, took a huge risk, it worked out fine and was exhilarating. My adult self kept saying NO! but I refused to listen. If I keep doing it the probable outcome is not good, the risks rise exponentially but it was worth it, a once in a decade day. When I was younger it would have been a once in a month day. And yet my friend thinks I’m too concerned about risks and let that run my life. Some of us just have to test the boundaries regularly to make sure they haven’t moved.
Ruckus
@Kay:
Understand.
Was trying to say parents sometimes are not at fault for an 18 yr old’s actions. Some do things without thinking them through. Some do things out of not understanding the world, even though it’s been explained to them many times. And many times the parents did do their best and it just wasn’t enough. That doesn’t mean the kids get a pass or just need to toughen up, life is messy sometimes. Some need to find that out in steps growing up and some need a clue by four upside the head. And others have problems that go undetected and could have been helped. And of course I don’t have much in the way of answers but I do ask, is life generally better today than 50 yrs ago? I think it is in some ways. Is it worse? I come up with the same answer.
A Humble Lurker
@Bob In Portland:
Why do you give a shit about Ukraine and where it sits on the scale of good and evil?
No one is impartial.
Kay
This is incredibly complicated legal gossip about Chris Christie’s various prosecutors and how they aren’t getting along.
Chertoff, of Homeland Security fame, plays a central role in the drama.
He’s back!
cckids
@Violet: Is there a possibility the kid is bipolar? I ask because lack of impulse control (often revolving around money) is a hallmark of being bipolar. And you mentioned the other kid in the family doesn’t have this issue.
Mnemosyne
@cckids:
I was wondering that, too. It’s also quite common for ADHD and bipolar to be comorbid with each other — my nephew ended up getting that double whammy, though luckily he responds well to medication.
Another Holocene Human
@Hal: Get one of those hypo-allergenic mattress covers for people with dust mite allergy. If that doesn’t work, you’ll have to go with the vinyl mattress cover for kids who still wet the bed. They have to be replaced annually because the vinyl breaks down and cracks. Hopefully the first one will work but cigarette smoke is a very persistent odor.
If you put a regular mattress cover over one of those barriers and then a sheet above it you really won’t know the difference. Although vinyl does make crinkly noises.
Another Holocene Human
@Bob In Portland: Non-bystander Bob has fantasies about stripping Ukrainian men naked. Sounds kinda … fascist. But who am I to judge? Sounds more like a situation where professional assistance is required.
Thanks to Reagan we’d have to pool our dosh and buy private shrinks, which we won’t because election year, but the men in white coats are your friends, Bob.
Gin & Tonic
@Another Holocene Human: You know what’s really funny? The guy next to the swastika tattoo guy? The guy in the hoodie? You know what the slogan on his hoodie says? It says “I’m Russian.” So a couple of Russia supporters show up with Nazi regalia and all of a sudden they’re Ukrainians.
Idiot Bob, who doesn’t know any languages other than English, shows his ignorance again.
Gretchen
I agree about being arrogant and judgmental – if we just had our incredibly easy and successful twins, we’d be smugly advising everyone else how this parenting thing is done. But we have our son to keep us humble. While we were out of town attending one twin’s graduation, receiving her master’s degree from an Ivy League school, our son called me to tell me he’d altered his birthday check for a higher amount. He was astonished to hear that passing bad checks is a felony that can result in jail time, and that I was wondering if it was time to press charges. He later gave me cash to make up the difference. He’s holding down a job, but never has any money. He is ADHD, definitely has alcohol problems, has had drug problems in the past, as well as such severe depression that he spent one year unable to leave his room. He was doing better, finally got his associate’s, has held down a job, got a girlfriend, but then she dumped him, understandably. I had to tell him that the kind of smart, educated, together girl he wants, is not going to deal with a hard-drinking 30 year old waiter. His dad’s bottom line is that he’d not going to throw him out and take a chance that when he’s riding his bike under an overpass, that homeless guy living in a box is his son. We’ve tried counseling, individual and family, and every iteration of self-help, and he’s still floundering, stealing from us, and my deepest fear and strongest expectation is that one day I’ll walk into his room and lift his cold hand and realize he’s finally either overdosed or committed suicide. Lots of people have advice. You should just…. any advice in this situation that includes the world just is not going to be helpful. But if anybody has any advice for the mother of a 30 year old alcoholic who steals from her to support his habit, is subject to demonic depressions and struggles to maintain a normal life, I’m listening.
Bob In Portland
@Another Holocene Human: No. You have fantasies about my fantasies. You are another Juicer who hasn’t answered the question: How long were you in favor of past wars before you were against them? No one answers because no one wants to admit to being hoodwinked by the last few okeydokes.
At this point someone will say, “We’re not sending troops.” We didn’t send troops to Libya. We just bombed them. And not every war has the same purpose or is waged the same way, although if petroleum products are in play there’s usually a tie-in there.
But really, Holocene, are you gay-bashing here or just hippie-punching?
Bob In Portland
@Gin & Tonic: Let’s cut the shit, Gin. Just deny that there are fascists and neo-Nazis in the coup regime and give evidence. Deny that those parades for Bandera had nothing to do with what Bandera did.
Are there Nazis and fascists in the coup government? Yes or no?
Bob In Portland
@A Humble Lurker: Why do I give a shit? The same reason I gave a shit when Allende was overthrown. The same reason I gave a shit when Bush II and Company lied us into Iraq and Afghanistan. The same reason why I’m against the CIA putting heads of state in the trunks of their cars.
Why don’t you give a shit? Elements in the US’s permanent government are playing a game here. They cannot make Ukraine strong, they can only destroy it. If Ukraine blows up into a full-on civil war or if the economy just collapses between now and November the John McCains will be rattling sabers and calling Obama weak and a sizable percentage of lefty voters will stay home when the curtain is partially pulled back. It’s happened over and over. It’s the flaming bag of shit on the White House doorstep.
Do you think that loaning a billion bucks to Ukraine (which the American people probably won’t see back) is more important than money to go into, say, Detroit, or food stamps or infrastructure or any number of things that taxpayer dollars could otherwise do? And do you think it stops at a billion?
I realize that this “hate Putin” deal really has sway among the Juicers here. It’s nice to have an other to hate. But it solves nothing. It does nothing to improve the lives of the average Ukrainian, and it does nothing to improve the lives of the average American. America has just replaced a corrupt oligarch with another group of corrupt oligarchs and added fringe nationalists to boot. There are enough people in Ukraine who speak Russian or have Romanian or Polish ancestry or are Jews who are upset about these ultra-nationalists in charge of various ministries. They remember.
So why don’t you give a shit? Is okay with you that the US blows up shit around the world. Is it okay if we fund people who blow up shit? Is it okay to burn people in buildings?
Bob In Portland
@Gin & Tonic: Actually, I had five years of Latin, but I’m not Catholic.
But as long as you want to bring up languages I will ask you once again how you happened to learn Ukrainian. You seem to avoid answering me. Why are you embarrassed about it? It seems to me if your folks are Ukrainian then you should be proud to know it. Or maybe you studied it for some purpose. I’m sure you wouldn’t mind sharing it with the other Juicers.
No, you know when you start it will all unravel. You’re just another Hans von Spakovsky, but with Ukrainian roots.
A Humble Lurker
@Bob In Portland:
But you don’t give a shit about Russia’s evils. Seems strange.