As someone who grew up in NYC in the 1960s, here’s a phrase I never expected to say: Way to go, Senator Rockefeller!
Politico video via Dave Weigel:
… People sometimes wonder if there’s a word as offensive to white people as the n-word is to black people. Easy answer: “Racist.” Republicans shared Rockefeller’s comments and assumed he was talking about them, all of them. Wisconsin Sen. Ron Johnson blew up at Rockefeller during a thinly-attended hearing, decrying for calling him racist. And Rockefeller, who’s aging and gazing hopefully at the exits, has not rushed to expand on his comments.
But come on. The guy’s a senator from West Virginia. West Virginia, where the 2008 primary voters who called race the “most important” factor in their vote gave Clinton a 76-point landslide over Obama. West Virginia, where any reporter could air drop in that year and find white voters openly admitting they could never vote for a black Muslim like Barack Hussein Obama…
West Virginia, where in 2012 Obama won only 59 percent of the primary vote as a convicted felon who never campaigned—as he was, you know, in jail—won the rest. Anyone who’s been on an Internet comment thread since 2008 has seen racist comments about Barack Obama. Do we want to bet that the senator from West Virginia, who voted for Obamacare, hasn’t gotten some of that?…
Paul Waldman, at Greg Sargent’s WaPo blog, has the sercon (serious sensible, constructive) unpacking:
Is opposition to Obamacare really about race? That’s the highly charged question that has bubbled up in the last day or so, starting with a Senate hearing and then bursting into the news media. I won’t keep you in suspense: The answer is, “Yes, but . . . .” Not all opposition to the Affordable Care Act, and not from all people, and not at all times. But two things are clearly true. First, some conservatives with large megaphones have worked hard to use the ACA as a tool of race-baiting, encouraging their white audiences to see the law through a racial lens. And second, a growing body of evidence demonstrates that race plays a role in many people’s opposition to the law…
No doubt Ron Johnson’s gonna go back home to what I’m guessing are his lily-white supporters in Wisconsin and clutch his pearls for the cameras, but that won’t make his hissy-fit any less risible.
Mudge
I presume Johnson will schedule his first speech on the subject in Milwaukee.
ruemara
Lord knows some liberal butthurt has occurred at the suggestion that there’s racist opposition to Obama even on our side. Not surprised. But who cares? Now, denial is all that’s important because goddess forbid you actually listen.
Baud
Vote GOP 2014: Because do you really want to admit the ni-CLANG was right?!
spudvol
And then there is this-
http://www.thestreet.com/story/12712489/10/the-10-dumbest-states-in-america.html
mai naem mobile
Ron Johnson is a fucking idiot. Hes been mare to look like an idiot by Hillary and a bunch of other Dems because, well,.he is.an idiot.
Botsplainer
At the YMCA, burning off BBQ. Openly laughing at “The Green Berets” on AMC.
Figure I may be annoying some Christian conservative white males, but fuck ’em.
Here’s a joke.
Question: Why did the family values Christian conservative activist/pundit cross the road?
Answer: His dick was stuck in the chicken.
raven
I just came from our annual Vietnam Vets Memorial Day gig and I can tell you there are a bunch of fuckers that are having a ball mocking the whole “racist” line.
raven
@Botsplainer: Hell, it was on in the chow hall where I just came from and the wingnut Nam vets laugh at it as much as anyone.
Yatsuno
@Baud: I fully expect impeachment to be on the platforms of at least a few of the Teahadi candidates. And they’ll win on it too.
Frankensteinbeck
Republicans are furious that ‘racist’ is an insult, yes. The anger that they can be called out for their blatantly racist actions is one of the driving forces of the current insanity. Meaningless buzzwords like ‘liberty’ mean ‘I would feel shame admitting, even to myself, why I’m angry.’
raven
@Frankensteinbeck: And they don’t give one rats fucking ass what a bunch of liberals think about it.
ulee
@ruemara: And someone needs to use the term–butthurt–even when talking about racism. Retire the term unless you must must employ it.
Anya
@mai naem mobile: You can be an idiot and a racist fuckwit at the same time. If it didn’t hit home why the hissy fit?
Baud
@raven:
Why should they? I hate when liberals care about what conservatives think rather than trying to defeat them.
SiubhanDuinne
@Botsplainer:
It is really wrong of me and/or I am a 12-year-old boy, but I laughed out loud at that.
Anya
The party of “let’s impeach Obama for whatever,” should have no credibility when they complain about being called racists.
Grumpy Code Monkey
@ruemara: @ruemara:
God knows Joan Walsh and Jane Hamsher had “issues” with Obama. After all, it was supposed to be the educated white liberals who brought racial justice to America.
We’re all racists; that’s just part of the human condition. The trick is to admit it to ourselves, learn to recognize when it’s controlling our decisions, then step back and reassess.
Baud
@Yatsuno:
But the media tells me that the Establishment is pushing back against the tea party.
Mustang Bobby
Johnson and Joey Scarborough should rent a cottage by the sea together so they can clutch their pearls in unison when ever they hear “racist” whispered in their vicinity. Just a little too oversensitive, methinks.
Speaking of Joey, Steve M has a nice reply to his “I’ve never heard a racist comment about Obama from ANY Republican.” I declare, Captain Butler, how you talk.
Joseph Nobles
#NotAllOppositionToACA
Mr Stagger Lee
Well these bastards, want to cut the summer food program for poor kids in the city, while sparing the poor kids in the rural areas, and they want to know why they are called racists?
Bob In Portland
Kiev forces are attacking Slavyansk tonight, mortars and tanks. I guess they’re getting the folks ready for the election tomorrow. A couple of Italian journalists dead. Should be a lot of casualties. Enjoy the weekend. You probably won’t see any news about it for a couple of days.
dr. bloor
I demand a Sitrep with the blog proprietors to review the direction in which language usage is moving around here.
Anne Laurie
@dr. bloor: “Sercon” has been used in sf fandom for going on fifty years now. I think it would be a useful addition to the political blogging lexicon — even, or especially, since it’s mostly used sarcastically by fans. But that’s just me!
hildebrand
I know this isn’t at all fair – but I am still mad at Russ Feingold for doing such a shitty job of running for re-election in 2010. Ron Johnson is an idiot, and Feingold allowed him to dictate the terms of their race. You want to know the price of purist foolishness? Russ Feingold losing to that chump. And I say this as someone who loved Russ Feingold. Bah.
Cassidy
The suburban liberal set wants to represent minority interests, just not actually interact with them.
Bruce Partington
@Anne Laurie: “‘Sercon’ has been used in sf fandom for going on fifty years now … it’s mostly used sarcastically by fans.”
And as a euphemism for getting high. (Though it’s “serious, constructive”, not “sensible, constructive”.)
[Edit: With a hat-tip to MikeJ.]
MikeJ
@Anne Laurie: Surely that should be serious and constructive, not sensible.
Joel Hanes
@Anne Laurie:
“Sercon” … would be a useful
although comments meriting its use are uncommon.
Joel Hanes
Dave Weigel writes that whites are/should be as offended to be called “racist”
as blacks are to be called “nigger”.
No. Just no. No equivalence at all.
I don’t doubt that many people are offended by being called racist, but no.
“Offended” is not what happens when a white person calls a black person “nigger”.
FlipYrWhig
@hildebrand: if only there was a civil libertarian with a PAC and an axe to grind who could have lent a hand in that election…
Randy P
@spudvol: I guess I’m a little out of date, but obviously SAT scoring has changed. The “number 1 dumbest state” has an average SAT score of 1513. I’m going to out on a limb and guess that isn’t out of 1600 the way it used to be (800 math, 800 verbal).
So can someone bring me up to date? What do SAT scores look like these days?
Anne Laurie
@Joel Hanes: Please adjust your sarcasm meter, in these heated times frequent recalibration may be necessary.
SiubhanDuinne
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
This is why I can’t pile on to the Mark Cuban (?) hatefest. Seems to me he’s doing the admitting, recognizing, and reassessing.
ulee
@Joel Hanes: Yes, there is an equivalence. Being called a racist is very damning.
srv
@Randy P: There’s a written section now, so out of 2400.
But I think they’re getting rid of it. Maybe add a texting test.
Mnemosyne (iPad Mini)
@ulee:
If conservatives want to act like two-year-olds who just fell and hurt their butts, why are we not supposed to point that out?
No, it’s not a reference to gay men or gay sex. Everyone has a butt, not just gay men, and insisting that “butthurt” must be a reference to gay sex means you’re spending a lot more time than most people thinking about gay sex.
? Martin
@Randy P: Three tests scored 200-800. Reading, Writing, Math. That’s going to go back to two tests in 2016. Median scores on the tests tend to be in the low-mid 500s. Universities like the UCs will take some students down there, but median scores would be in the low 600s. Schools like Berkeley will have medians be in the high 600/low 700 range.
? Martin
@srv: A texting test would be awesome. Maybe instead of reading comprehension we could have students interpret LOLCAT pictures and caption them.
Anne Laurie
@Bruce Partington: @MikeJ: You are both correct. Fixed, thanks.
ulee
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): Of course it’s a reference. Don’t be so obtuse.
Ben Cisco (onboard the Defiant)
@ruemara: There is much wisdom in your words.
James E. Powell
@hildebrand:
You want to know the price of purist foolishness? Russ Feingold losing to that chump. And I say this as someone who loved Russ Feingold. Bah.
I think it’s a mistake to love any politician. Feingold let down the team with his borderline Nader independence. He cost the Democrats a senate seat that is going to be very hard to get back. My take at the time was that he just didn’t care anymore. Cf. Bill Bradley when he left the senate.
gogol's wife
@Bruce Partington:
Great nym! Where are the plans?
khead
@? Martin:
I didn’t do all that bad, but I still would’ve gladly skipped the writing portion for anything involving cat pics.
I mean, it’s cat pics.
ulee
@Mnemosyne (iPad Mini): And looking at my comment, I never mentioned anything about gay men. So, you’re caught in your own mind.
mtiffany
Dear Senator Johnson,
You would not have been so offended by Senator Rockefeller’s words had they not struck so close to home. You are what you answer to.
Toodles,
Everyone that can see you.
BBA
It’s mostly racism. Only “mostly” because the failure of HillaryCare in 1994 shows they’re perfectly willing to be misogynistic if racism won’t work. (And if Hillary hadn’t been involved, they’d have some other form of bigotry to fall back on…)
JPL
I no longer know what an open thread means. discuss
? Martin
@JPL: It means talk about whatever you want, just like in a non-open thread.
Gin & Tonic
@Bob In Portland: Right, Bob, as if the “Donetsk People’s Republic” has been supportive of the elections. Who are the ones threatening the election officials, and who are the ones that are supporting and encouraging independent election monitors? Who are the ones calling for a “Novorossiya”? do you even know the connotations of that term? Admit it, you don’t know shit.
Just like yesterday, when you gleefully posted that thinly-sourced photo of guys with swastika tattoos. Funny thing, Bob, while you were masturbating to your “pin the swastika on the Ukrainian” game – those guys were Russians. How do I know this by looking at a photo? Helpfully, the one without his shirt off was wearing a black hoodie that said, in Russian, “I’m Russian.” But you don’t know either of the relevant languages, so you couldn’t even register what a moron you looked like posting that photo.
While people, both Ukrainians and foreigners, risk their safety and in some cases their lives to hold what may be the freest election in Ukraine in two decades, the pro-Russians are doing everything they can to prevent them from taking place. That’s anti-fascism for you.
So you sit comfortably in your home and malign a people whose language and culture and current politics you don’t know *at all* (and demonstrate this repeatedly) and whose history you know at the level of a cartoon. In the meantime, as I type these words people I know and care about are on their way to polling places around the country to ensure a free and fair election.
Johannes
Since this is an open thread, any of y’all familiar with Albany, NY, and know what areas are good to rent in? I’ve been offered a position that will take me up there a good chunk of the week, and don’t know the city very well…all feedback much appreciated.
? Martin
How bad is it for the CA-GOP with Donnelly likely to be the GOP candidate?
Republican donors for Whitman in 2010 are giving money to Brown, not Donnelly.
SiubhanDuinne
@? Martin:
Select the best answer:
A. WTF
B. LOL
C. FYWP
D. OMG
E. All of the above
ulee
@Johannes: I know that William Kennedy won a Pulitzer about bums in Albany.
jl
Shit. IS the debate on Obamacare really about race? Seriously, hard question, maybe. Same with did he use the right mustard, is body-surfing or bike-riding with a helmet sissy, or whether or not one is reported to have worn a flag pin in the right way (whether, when or how anyone right or left actually wears a flag pin is irrelevant here) , is golfing too much shows laziness, or visiting Hawaii, a foreign something or other show disrespect for real American values, how about what could be interpreted as really geeky and nerdy legalistic issues about documentation of birth. Are those racist? Really?
How about using teleprompter? What does that have to with race? Sheesh… the weird things these liberals say.
Is watermelon, qua watermelon, per se and unqualified, really racist? Are seedless watermelons less racist than olde tymey seeded ones? How about a Texas Striper versus a Picnic?
All these things are carriers, sort of like tofu or rice, that carry the flavor in the sauce. Waldman analyzes the case in humorless detail.
Glad I read it because I discovered a quote there Rim Lushbaugh implicitly concedes that, yes, there are some bad things in U.S. history and about America. Drive Rim from the temple, he is traitor, apostate and outcast!
Edit: Ron Johnson comes off as an bellicose idiot. Yeah, since he is the only GOPer in the room, obviously he is being called a racist. Yeah, lets hear that tape again, Ronnie J!
? Martin
@SiubhanDuinne: C. FYWP. That’s always the right answer.
Donut
@Botsplainer:
And with that, the lights were shut off, the windows and shutters were closed tight, and all the doors were locked, checked again, and finally, satisfied, the Internetz announced that they were finished and closed down, and heading home for a beer and a shot and a good night’s sleep, because nothing better could be posted on that day.
Well done, I say.
JPL
@? Martin: Thanks!
According to the attorney from the parents of the man who killed and maimed a lot of people in Santa Barbara, they notified the police of the videos beforehand. Once again thanks to St. Romney, it’s difficult to get help for family members who need help. He might have visited right wing sites, that added to his difficulties, but they were not the cause of his difficulties.
J.D. Rhoades
… People sometimes wonder if there’s a word as offensive to white people as the n-word is to black people. Easy answer: “Racist.”
You know, he may be right. Back when I was in TV, one of the black reporters brought in a clip of himself in the field trying to interview some redneck city councilman who kept railing at him about how he wasn’t going to make any comment, the station had it in for him, etc. Then the cameraman for some reason blurted out, “you’re just not talking to him because you’re a racist.” The next thing you see is councilman’s fists flying as he physically attacks the cameraman. Too bad there was no YouTube in those days…
? Martin
@jl: They always rely on parsing arguments to defend their actions. You can’t disassociate the truther stuff, the witchdoctor, the money photos, etc from the rest. Once they showed their true hand, you had to assume that the rest was related. It’s their responsibility to demonstrate the basis for their opposition, and death panels and socialism doesn’t cut it. If they advance rational arguments (and they’re more than eager to make them when they have them), we’ll take them at face value. When it’s all gibberish and conspiracy theories, then you have to assume they’re afraid to give their real rationale.
ulee
@jl: wow. you have a lot on your mind. I’m thinking about lawn darts. Not a good idea.
? Martin
@JPL: Malignant ideas prey on troubled minds.
SatanicPanic
@Grumpy Code Monkey:
I kind of agree with this- meeting people who look/act in unfamiliar ways can be awkward. It’s how you handle it afterwards that determines whether you’re an asshole or not. And if someone calls on you and you flip out… then you’re really an asshole.
Johannes
@ulee: Awesome. Not, admittedly terribly helpful, but awesome nonetheless.
Liberty60
Just finished reading TNC’s Reparations article. Damn, that was brutal. Sobering, and as painful as hell.
As a child of the 60/70’s, I thought it was all behind us. With what we’e seen since 2008, looks like we have to fight that all over again.
? Martin
@SatanicPanic: You can choose to see them as different, or you can choose to see them as people.
The Pale Scot
Gosh! If I had functioning knees I’d consider it.
Coon hound needs good home
What a face, but I get angina just thinking of keeping up with him.
Bet he’d wear out a school busload of kids.
Mustang Bobby
@Liberty60: I agree, and since I was born in the early 50’s, my memories of the civil rights struggles of the ’60’s are vivid.
ulee
@The Pale Scot: If I could I would. This sweetheart will have his home.
jl
@ulee: The you should not think about lawn darts if you know it is not a good idea. If you can’t understand that comment either, maybe some kind commenter here will help you.
? Martin
LA Times has more detail now:
So the 3 fatalities from the apartment were part of the 7, thank goodness. But another responsible gun owner for you.
Villago Delenda Est
My heart pumps buttermilk for the poor, oppressed Ron Johnson.
Why the hell couldn’t one of those meteors from last night fall on him and solve the problem of his vile existence for us? FSM doesn’t love us that much, I suppose.
Yatsuno
@JPL: It means Moscow Bob will be along with the latest Russia propaganda sheet any moment now. Oh and possible Papa Stevedore Hemingway pics, but no guarantees.
? Martin
@efgoldman: A few, but not mainstream. But they’ll make rational arguments on other issues when they have them. I may not agree with their arguments, but they aren’t complete bugfuckery.
SatanicPanic
@? Martin: Nothing wrong with seeing people as different people.
I’m just saying a human’s gut reaction tends to be – woah, I’ve never seen/heard/met someone like that before. And what you do with that determines what kind of person you are. I’m just being honest, I grew up in a small town around whites and mexicans and no one else, so the first time I met other types of people I didn’t always know how to act.
ulee
@jl: Hey, I’m just joking. Lawn Darts is a notoriously bad and dangerous sport.
Yatsuno
@The Pale Scot: Paging Betty Cracker. Betty Cracker please come to the white courtesy phone for an important announcement. Betty Cracker to the white courtesy phone please.
Anne Laurie
@JPL: It means there are some commentors here — believe it or not! — who wait for a labelled ‘Open Thread’ to share their latest cat pics / cute kid stories / random internet links. I think those commentors deserve some courtesy in return.
Most of my Open Thread posts also discuss stuff that I think is worth linking, but not so IMPORTANT that they deserve a dedicated post all to themselves. Like “Here are people making fun of Ron Johnson, who we can all agree is a pearl-clutching GOP idiot.” Some people, I hope, will want to talk about it, or share their own related links. But Ron Johnson is not significant enough, in the larger scheme of things, to rise to “Everybody Must Talk About Ron Johnson Right Now!” levels of blogging… in my opinion, of course.
I’m basically doing OT posts that are my front-pager equivalent of OT comments. I’ve got a clinical diagnosis of mild Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder — what’s your excuse?
? Martin
@SatanicPanic: The first step to accepting someone who is different is to just accept them as being a person. So, when you see/hear/meet someone like that, first thing to do is stop and remind yourself (consciously) that they’re just a person like you. After you work through all the things that are alike, turns out there’s very little that’s different.
satanicpanic
@? Martin: I don’t know if I agree with the latter. The better acquainted I get with Japanese culture the more I’ve come to realize I’ll never really understand it. At least not unconsciously. That’s not a bad thing though.
? Martin
@efgoldman: No, I think some of their arguments aren’t totally out there. Mandating buying private insurance is a valid point of disagreement. Where to draw the line on gun ownership is valid (whether there should be one isn’t). There’s quite a few underneath the layers of ideological spew. That doesn’t mean I agree with them, but I’ll acknowledge them as valid points of disagreement, and many are difficult enough to study that you can’t easily refute them.
But those arguments don’t come out very often these days. It’s petty bonkers stuff right now.
scav
@satanicpanic: I’m not so sure the last part is exactly true or useful either. Assuming there’s not much different is too close to assuming the unnoticed background of our own presuppositions and experiences are universal and then it gets too easy to dismiss descriptions of situations that haven’t happened to us. Our personal experiences are not universal, and we shouldn’t expect them to be the norms or the best. Emphasizing similarities in experiences is a good heuristic in trying to get along, but there are vast differences all the same and we should respect — moreover value — those as well.
Belafon
@ulee: So, tell me ulee, why did you get weirded out by “butthurt”?
Cacti
@Yatsuno:
Comrade Bob is having a big old sad that his BFFs in Spetsnaz couldn’t keep the election from happening.
The Pale Scot
The coon hound post s gone,
good luck doggy.
ulee
Seems to be that this person in California killed three in his apartment before killing another six people. My expressions cannot can close to how horrible this is for these families.
? Martin
@ulee: No. See my post above. It was 6 total.
Belafon
@ulee: The three are part of the total seven. He kill three outside of his apartment and then he died.
Bobby Thomson
@ulee: The fuck, dude. Make up your mind. You’re the most incoherent concern troll I’ve ever seen.
ulee
I guess we’ll learn the total toll of people.
? Martin
@ulee: I gave the link to the LA Times article that goes through the chronology and shows you where each incident took place and how many were killed/wounded.
Is that not adequate?
JaneE
I live in a “red” area. Small town, semi-rural. I know people here are racist – not the lynching kind, just the attitude towards “others”. Here it is more about Native Americans and Hispanics, because we don’t have any Blacks to speak of. You will hear things like “what did you expect?” generalizing about the group rather than criticizing the individual. Whites are always criticized as individuals. You are more likely to hear excuses or rationalizations about white offenders in the news, but Hispanics – are always assumed to be illegal, and therefore just plain criminals to start with.
You should hear the reasons people give for opposing the ACA. Not too rational. Sometimes not even able to articulate a reason, because they don’t want you to think it is about the race of the man whose name is associated with the health care law, and they don’t really have anything else. It would be comical, if it weren’t sad. Sometimes it is the same people who were so angry with the Republicans over the shutdown, trying to stop the law, because they or someone they knew needed health insurance. These are people who know that the law will help some of them. But they just can’t support Obamacare. Because.
J R in WV
@Liberty60:
Just like religious freedom, the right to vote, the meaning of democracy, freedom of unpopular speech, racial equality is something we will fight to achieve forever and ever.
Right here in W Va some Jehova’s Witnesses declined to say the Pledge of allegiance back in the day. Little kids in school.
The Supreme Court – after a very long time – finally ruled that the 1st Amendment in the Bill of Rights meant that the state (or the State) cannot force even a little child to swear an oath against their will. Nor say the Pledge of Allegiance, which seems to be an oath, doesn’t it?
ulee
@? Martin: It’s what we have. We will learn more as time goes by.
ulee
@Bobby Thomson: As for you, don’t waste my time.
Gwangung
@ulee: Hm. That’s pretty lame.
ulee
@Gwangung: Really? I thought that was reality. But if you think you already know then who am I to disagree.
A Humble Lurker
@ulee:
That would be impossible to do.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Botsplainer:
You mean his dick was stuck in the rooster, since when have Christian conservative pundits been heterosexual?
schrodinger's cat
@gogol’s wife: That’s what I was going to ask.
Frankensteinbeck
@Gin & Tonic:
Bravo. Wow. Very well said.
ruemara
@ulee: bugger off.
Comrade Carter
“No doubt Ron Johnson’s gonna go back home to what I’m guessing are his lily-white supporters in Wisconsin…”
Maybe Ron Johnson’s supporters are all lily-white, but he’s going to lose the next time if he’s relying on them. Just as Gov. Walker’s going to lose. It may be lily-white, but his largest constituency comes from Milwaukee, the socialist paradise.
Our last few mayors excepted, and despite the fact that the current one is a nominal Democrat (Tom Barrett, very much a socialist), the previous mayors were, prior to Henry Maier, Sociaists. Like Emil Seidel, Dan Hoan (the person for whom the 794 bridge is named after) and Frank Zeidler.
Helen