I expected more from you, Agent Poojitha:
Verizon: Still worthless rat-bastids! Feel free to discuss whatever.
Reader Interactions
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Come for the politics, stay for the snark.
If you’re gonna whine, it’s time to resign!
Do not shrug your shoulders and accept the normalization of untruths.
Let’s bury these fuckers at the polls 2 years from now.
Jesus, Mary, & Joseph how is that election even close?
There are some who say that there are too many strawmen arguments on this blog.
The “burn-it-down” people are good with that until they become part of the kindling.
Hot air and ill-informed banter
Stand up, dammit!
Everything is totally normal and fine!!!
If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.
Damn right I heard that as a threat.
Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.
When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.
Text STOP to opt out of updates on war plans.
They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!
Humiliatingly small and eclipsed by the derision of millions.
Black Jesus loves a paper trail.
Washington Post Catch and Kill, not noticeably better than the Enquirer’s.
Red lights blinking on democracy’s dashboard
We do not need to pander to people who do not like what we stand for.
Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll
When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.
“The defense has a certain level of trust in defendant that the government does not.”
President Musk and Trump are both poorly raised, coddled 8 year old boys.
Fred Fnord
That’s why they’re #1: they never lose their focus on the big picture!
Big R
Wow, that was surprisingly dumb. Even for Verizon.
bargal20
Agent Poojitha? It was only a matter of time before the Matrix started outsourcing.
kindness
I like that they don’t hide their help centers are off shore.
I have AT&T. I really like ’em but a whole bunch of folk hate ’em.
Villago Delenda Est
Agent Poojitha in Bangalore, perhaps?
Mnemosyne
I am annoyed that I have to get a prescription from Canada (because the US wholesale price is over $600, but the Canadian retail price for a larger quantity of the same damn thing is $140), but at least the chat rep was helpful in looking up my login name when I forgot it.
Jewish Steel
I’m sure that is a lovely name, redolent of beauty and honor in her native land. But lord. Poojitha?
Hunter Gathers
Shorter Verizon:
“Fuck you. Pay me.”
dr. bloor
@kindness:
Just like them foreign kids that won the spelling bee.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
birthvillage.com/Name/Poojitha
Doesn’t that just make you feel so much better, Betty?
Baud
Agent Poojitha is merely pawn in game of life.
Elizabelle
I knew this was a Betty Cracker post without even looking at the byline.
LOL.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@Baud:
Agent Poojitha is the new upwardly mobile middle finger.
Elizabelle
@Baud:
You’d asked if I knew Valdivia in offscreen life. Regrettably no (optimistically, “not yet”) but sending up a bat signal in hopes she surfaces and attends whatever DC area Balloon Juice meetup we do on June 11 or 12.
Any other Valdivia sightings?
PaulW
First thing we do when the revolution comes: force the tech companies to have their online and phone tech support exist within the same state as you, in case you need to hunt the clueless IT moron down. After that, then we line up the lobbyists, the CEOs, the lawyers, and the people who talk in the theater…
Baud
@Elizabelle:
Thanks. If you see her at the meet up, be sure to tell her that she is missed.
Mnemosyne
@Jewish Steel:
I’m assuming that “poo” is not as problematic a transliteration in British English since they are the land that gave us Winnie the Pooh. But I would probably advise Indian parents in the US to spell it “Pujitha” instead.
lamh36
Idiot says what—>
WaterGirl
@Elizabelle: I play that game, too, because I use Leaf (RSS feed) and I see the thread titles before I can see who wrote the thread. My success rate is quite high.
From just the title, I had this thread pegged as either John Cole or Betty Cracker. Once I saw the graphic, I went with Betty Cracker.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@Mnemosyne:
You can in fact poo-poo a problem in British English.
Villago Delenda Est
@lamh36: Is that the same Ted Cruz who is a combat veteran of Gulf Wars I and II and served three combat tours in Afghanistan?
Probably not…
lamh36
Hmm, from one POW to another, let him rot?
Naw, maybe I’m being too mean.
scav
@PaulW: I don’t know, there are entirely too many rude idiots in my state, there’s a downside to using locals (a lot of time would be wasted trying to hunt them all down, practically speaking). Second half I’m entirely in agreement with.
lamh36
2012 GOP threat: Sgt. Bergdahl swap will be Obama, Democrats’ ‘Willie Horton moment’
Baud
@lamh36:
Cruz is right. Of course, it would have been a massive failure, but we “could have” sent in the military.
Villago Delenda Est
@scav: Idiots are trainable.
College educated neocons and stenographers in the service of news organizations are not.
WaterGirl
I never thought I’d say this, but I do believe that Verizon has become more evil than AT&T. And that’s a pretty high bar to clear!
AT&T lets you carry over unused phone minutes for 12 months, and I always have extra minutes. That came in very handy when the tree fell on my house and I was using the cell phone a ton more than usual, for obvious reasons.
I used 12 months of extra minutes during that first month and had an extra $70 of charges on my bill. When I called to explain my situation, they were very kind and gave me hundreds of “courtesy” minutes back.
Verizon, on the other hand, refused to give me the refund that was due when I switched from Verizon to AT&T years ago. They kept saying “4 weeks” until, after 6 months of phone calls, I finally gave up. Jump, you FUCKERS!
BBA
Looks like the WFP will endorse Governor-for-Life Cuomo. Four more years of tax cuts, privatization, and MTA service reductions with a thin patina of social liberalism to help us swallow it down, hooray.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@Baud:
We could even have nuked the site and then exfiltrated Sergeant Bergdahl. Well, the identifiable bits of him. Fifty years later.
WaterGirl
@lamh36: Support Our Troops! Buy flags for your big truck! Don’t forget the yellow ribbons!!
Sorry, POWs, you’re out of luck. Returning home, injured, maybe lost a limb, in need of medical care? Sorry, we’re cutting the budget. At an embassy that needs protection? Sorry, we’re cutting the budget. PTSD? Sorry, you were predisposed when you entered the army.
Surely “the troops” know who actually supports them in reality, right?
srv
Probably too busy celebrating the release of mass murderer Mohammed Fazl
Baud
@Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers):
It’s what John McCain would have done.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@Baud:
We are all radioactive Georgians now.
Jewish Steel
@Mnemosyne: Pujitha is better to read, to be sure.
Albert Pujols, similarly afflicted.
Joel
@srv: yeah, we should have just let ’em rot.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@srv:
Given that she shares neither a country nor a religion with Fazl, that’s extremely unlikely.
Baud
@Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers):
I thought we were Ukrainians. Or was it Syrians?
As long as it’s not Americans. Half of those mofos are Republican.
Citizen_X
@lamh36: Seriously? They’re going to go all out against a prisoner swap?
And making it a Willie Horton moment? Ooh, boy, now Obama will lose his next election!
Keep fucking the remains of that chicken, GOP.
big ole hound
I just go buy a prepaid phone and add minutes as you need them on any credit card $50 at a time then swap the sim card to keep the same number. Of course this a regular flip phone but it has no worries either.
MikeJ
If an agent is being judged on how quickly they can close a case, it certainly helps their average times if occasionally they get “disconnected” and wind up with a zero time.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@Baud:
We few, we happy few, we band of 47% brothers….
MattF
@lamh36: Also (via TPM) Cruz sez the government shutdown was a huge success:
talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cruz-shutdown-helps-gop-elections
… and he’s not getting sufficient credit for it. Insert joke here about alternate space-time continuum.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@MattF:
The party of stupid is now on Cruz control and heading towards Fuckwit Junction.
scav
@Villago Delenda Est:
In theory. Explain large masses of the republican base. Rising sea levels finally going to make them d/think? (the mountain will come to Mohammed and the water is coming to the horse — but still.)
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@scav:
You want to know how they’ll explain flooding caused by climate change?
Teabagger: “Obama blew up the dikes with his al-Qaeda operatives!”
Sane person: “What dikes?”
Teabagger: “Just the same way he did in Benghazi!”
lamh36
I don’t know if this will be a stupid question, but I’ma ask anyway.
Ok, Al Qaeda is the terrorist organization right, are all of the Taliban considered members of Al Qaeda
Is the Taliban considered a terrorist organization, i.e. is it on a US designated terrorist list?
If the Taliban isn’t actually considered a terrorist organizatin, then does that mean that technically the phrase “negotiating with terrorist” doesn’t actual apply here since the negotiation was with the Taliban…?
Also too, what’s the difference between negotiating POW transfers in the case of winding down a war between countries. Aren’t there parameters for that too?
Or am I totally confused and off-based here?
scav
@Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers): King Ronnie Canute being unfortunately unavailable to stand on the shore and intone “Roll Back This Tide!” like the prophets of old.
lamh36
Oh good lord, so less than 24 hour and wingnuts are on a “this is just like HOMELAND” type shit to malign this soldier.
This is NOT HOMELAND, this is real life. How’s about we be happy the POW was released for just a bit before comparing it to fictional tv shows…umkay.
This is probably the same people who think that Jack Bauer and “24” was based on a true story, and not mainly fiction.
twitter.com/NNENA_OMAL…
elmo
If the Republicans had been able to block the killing of bin Laden, they would also have done that. It’s not about stopping the release of prisoners – it’s about denying the President a victory. Period.
White Trash Liberal
theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/30/daniel-ellsberg-snowden-fair-trial-kerry-espionage-act
This opinion piece by Ellsberg is infuriating. First, the experts that he cites on the matter of Snowden’s ability to be granted a fair trial are none other than Snowden and Snowden’s lawyer.
Second, of the cases he cites (including his own), he admits that the trials ultimately ended with the prosecution’s case falling apart.
Third, he hinges his entire premise of unfairness on the principle that defendant would be unable to explain before a jury the reason behind their leaks. As if THAT was the single most crucial element of a criminal trial by jury.
The world is a better place thanks to Ellsberg. Hell, at least when it comes to the domestic spying scope of the NSA, the world is a better place thanks to Snowden. However, it does not give him license to justify civil disobedience that seeks to avoid the consequence of a trial by jury. The fact remains that Snowden gave some secrets to the Chinese as reported by a state newspaper. Further, given how Ellsberg has been vindicated by history and is a free man, there is something to be said about the US justice system… Even during Nixon.
I find this “fugitive logic” coming from the Freedom of the Press Foundation to be a pernicious form of ends justifying the means thinking… The same kind of thinking that animates the very right wing liberals despise.
lamh36
Lordy, how can the GOP not see when they are being set up. Who other than the usual wingnut and Fox news breathers will even support this.
Who’s gonna run on this?
Personally I hope they continue. Go ahead, malign the newly free POW without just cause…”Please Proceed…GOP”
gbear
@lamh36: I hope that Sergeant Bergdahl’s dad takes his son aside and has a long talk about how fucking crazy the conservatives have gotten since he was taken prisoner that they’re now foaming at the mouth because he’s not a prisoner any more. The dad seemed to be smart enough to know how to break this news to his son.
D58826
@lamh36: I’ve seen in any number of places the ‘joke’ that if Obama came out in support of breathing the GOP would hold it’s breath until; they turned blue and died. Watching the despicable reaction to the return of the soldier, I don’t think it’s a joke. They would actually hold their breath. Now if we can just fund an advertising campaign with Obama talking up breathing…………….
srv
@lamh36:
Bush lied, people died
Debbie
@lamh36:
As if those clowns could have kept their mouths shut for 30 days.
lamh36
@srv: @srv: Sorry, but how does that answer my questions. They are serious inquiries
Ronzoni Rigatoni
Aw, Betty, be patient LOL. I was on hold twice (2ce) for an hour each time, just to see how long the torture endured. Then, I finally got a reply from Bwanibaboo who told me I needed the “Service” Dep’t (Bwahahahahaha). No shit. So I called BrightHouse and they disconnected Verizon and installed their server within 24 hours. There are no (NO!) service centers for Verizon here in the USA that I could locate. I did find a guy (Swamiptou) who I asked for a mailing ticket to return their wireless modem. I was re-directed to a “Service” line, but about this time I refused to wait more than 10 minutes. Anybody out there want a Verizon Modem for FREE? It’s still in my garage…
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@lamh36: According to Wikipedia, the only country that has the Taliban on a terrorist organization list is Russia. I suspect it is a hangover from their war there 35 years ago. That being said, they aren’t a particularly nice group of folks.
D58826
I like the charge that the Taliban has American blood on their hands so we can’t talk to them. Hmmm let me think who else has American blood on their hands but we talk to today , the Germans, the Italians, the Japanese, the Vietnamese, the Brits and lets not forget all those proud Sons of Confederate Veterans. Did I miss any one?
Gindy51
We use Credo Mobile and talk to real human beings in the USA not some automated service outsourced to a foreign country. They are polite, know their stuff, and are very helpful. We’ve had no problems with our service and we live in a very rural area where most cell phones cannot reach. We were thinking of going with one of those prepaid cards, but we would be spending more in roaming charges (none with Credo in the USA) so we decided to forget it. The best part, the Credo company is the one phone company that is progressive and does not donate to the same shit heads Verizon, AT&T and all the other assholes do. You know, the GOP.
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
Surprising not all of them. You’d think they would but there you go.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@D58826: The Spanish?
D58826
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): yep, and the Filipinos in the early 1900’s
satby
@WaterGirl: one of my singing extended relatives was on FB today complaining about the lawless Obama administration releasing terrorists for a deserter. I never heard that the winners decided LOWs are all deserters now.
satby
Can’t edit, but singing and winners were supposed to be spelled “wingnut”
Elizabelle
WaPost today: Aside from New Orleans, which East Coast city is threatened soonest by sea rise and subsidence (land sinking)?
satby
And LOW is obviously POW. GODDAMN autocorrect!
Ruckus
@Gindy51:
Not only do they not give money to shitheads, they actively have fought their reelection. They were my go to choice for a new provider a couple of years ago but I found an even cheaper way with a T Mobile sim card and $100 prepaid minutes, which last for an year and cost was my major, OK only, issue.
Elizabelle
We’re spending — what? $2 billion daily as we wind down the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq? War profiteers and Republicans are screaming for continued, unlimited military spending. Because: fear!
We need that money to prepare for adaptations for climate change — which is here — now. $2 billion per day would go a long way towards preparing and protecting American communities.
We might need to tax and budget against climate change (and for renewable energy) as one would for WW2. There is no political will — yet — but it is coming.
Plus: American jobs. In peacetime.
jayboat
TBOGG hits another one that should be in permanent rotation somewhere:
open carry guys need a gun buddy or two to tag along because a solo high-five is a sad high-five.
ultraviolet thunder
Poojitha’s call probably dropped. This is not a ringing endorsement for a teleservices provider.
lamh36
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): That is what I was understood to believe, but then the question is, as another commenter said, is it that be don’t negotiate with “terrorists” or we don’t negotiate with “any country with American blood on it’s hands”?
Higgs Boson's Mate
We had a family calling plan with Verizon for years. My Verizon cellphone took a dive and because of circumstances I needed to stay in touch now. Popped down to the drugstore and grabbed the first prepaid cell I saw (Tracfone) and finished my business. When I went online to order another phone from Verizon I found that although I was eligible for a free cheesy phone they were still going to charge me a forty dollar fee, no matter what. WTF?!? I called. The rep told me that they just did that sometimes. He also told me that I was out of contract and needed to renew. “If I renew will you guys give me a deal on a phone?” I asked. “No.” “And is our family calling plan up for renewal?” He told me that it was. “Thank you.” Called my wife and son and told them to get Tracfones with the triple talk, text and data option. When they’d done that I called Verizon and told them where they could put their renewal. We’re paying a quarter of what we paid Verizon, the phones are decent and inexpensive and Tracfone’s service here in SoCal is just as good as Verizon’s.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@lamh36: You know that, for the people who are complaining, the real complaint is Obama [did or did not (choose one)] do something and that he [did or did not (choose one)] do it [too soon or too late (choose one)], right?
SarahT
@Gindy51: We use CREDO Long Distance and are similarly pleased with the service and price. We’ll probably switch to CREDO Mobile as soon as my current contract is up.
ultraviolet thunder
I use Verizon only because they have signal coverage absolutely everywhere I go, including some pretty damn remote places. I can confirm this with the fingerprints of ATT using colleagues on my iPhone’s screen. Also I don’t pay the exorbitant bill for it. If not for that situation I’d be on Virgin Mobile. My wife has a great Virgin plan that’s far cheaper than mine and my phone collects a minimum of her fingerprints.
Professor
Didn’t President Ronald Reagan sell surface to air missiles and other lethal weapons to the Taliban in 1980s during their war with the Russians (USSR then)?
scav
@lamh36:
well, there goes Germany, Japan, Vietnam, Korea, Mexico, Italy, Britain and Canada to get started. . . . .
As an aside, the theme that only Americans are competent, knowledgable or polite when manning telephones is a little disturbing, and not exactly a part of my experience at least. Shit corporations can find their shit specialists and set up schemes to reward / encourage the shittiness anywhere.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Elizabelle:
Um, no. The wealthy will demand whatever infrastructure it takes from the government to keep their beachfront homes from being inundated. So much for climate change. States and the fed will roll over for fracking even if that means bulldozing graves at Arlington to make way for the equipment. Take that, renewable energy. The entities opposed to renewable energy are also the ones most opposed to dealing with climate change. They have orders of magnitude more money and influence than the NRA and the NRA already has our politicians buffaloed. Relax; being dead don’t hurt, only dying.
ultraviolet thunder
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
My dad’s house was wiped out by a tornado a while back. He ran up huge overage charges on his Verizon cell on account of his home phone having been flung into the next county with the rest of his home’s contents.
He contacted Verizon and they offered to retroactively upgrade him to a plan with more minutes and wipe out the overages. IOW they declined to be dicks when they could have been. He stayed with Verizon for this reason.
catclub
@Elizabelle:
I don’t think so. More like $60B/year which is $1B every five days.
Of course, the Afghanistan GDP is $25B/year, so still absurd amounts of money.
burnspbesq
US defense looking very poor against Turkey. If they don’t improve dramatically in the next two weeks, we won’t get a single point at the World Cup.
D58826
It’s a difficult concept for some folks to understand but in a war there are times you have to negotiate with the enemy. It’s not nice but sometimes it’s the lesser of two evils.
As to the 5 Taliban prisoners being high ranking leaders at this point I would say ‘so what’. The Taliban seems to be getting along quite nicely without them and in a world crawling with jihadists, 5 more isn’t going to make much difference. Israel has survived after trading Palestinians for captured Israeli solders, I suspect the US will also.
If Obama had done nothing and missed the chance to free this guy, then the GOP would be screaming that he left an American behind, just like they are claiming he left the 4 Americans in Benghazi to die. It’s not what he does, its that he even exists
burnspbesq
Well, we might win some games 6-5 if we get goals like that ridiculous thing conjured up by Bradley and Fabian Johnson.
catclub
@Professor: All the ‘vetting of Syrian fighters’ that Obama is doing is in contrast to that particular Afghanistan adventure, when the Reagan and Bush admins appeared to be passing out TOW anti-aircraft rockets like candy.
Kay
@lamh36:
It doesn’t matter. The narrative must be repeated.
Oh, the US does all kinds of things, Candy, as you well know.
I don’t know when this sentimentality and dogged insistence on a historical re-write became a stand-in for patriotism, but it’s just annoying and childish.
We’re big boys and girls. We really don’t need to be fed a bumper sticker.
Why, I bet we’ll find out the soldier held hostage was complicated and not a GI Joe action figure hero. I don’t know if we can take that much reality in one weekend.
D58826
@Professor: I don’t think the Taliban came into existence until the early 90s. However we did supply military aid in the 1980’s to groups that evolved into Al Qaeda and the Taliban. But since they were killing Russians they were freedom fighters (i.e. our terrorists). And in the 1980’s we also supported the contras. only difference between them and terrorists was they were our terrorists
lamh36
Bill Burton for the internet win today!
lamh36
D58826
And since we are talking about negotiating with terrorists and having American blood on the hands lets discuss the 51st state – Israel. The Brits certainly thought the Israeli’s fighting them in the late 40’s were terrorists. Most of the first generation of Israeli leaders had links to attacks that would be called terrorism today if they occurred in Israel or Washington. . PM Begin headed the group that blew up the King David Hotel. He was the real life model for Paul Newman’s uncle in the movie Exodus. PM Sharon lead an attack on an Arab village that killed 60+ men women and children. As for American blood – 34 dead Navy sailors on the USS Liberty, attacked by the Israeli Air Force during the 6 days war in 1967. But it was an accident. They didn’t see the American flag on the ship’s mast.
Heck we even forgave Sadaam for attacking the USS Stark.
But what are a few atrocities and American dead among friends.
lamh36
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Professor: They were Freedom Fighters then, so it was imperative that they be extremely well armed against the evil Russkie commie bastards.
Kay
@D58826:
They never, ever would have gotten involved with it because actually dealing with it carries political risk. It’s fine, it’s the role of the President, but Congress has to decide if they actually want both power and responsibility re: war or if they are just sniping from the sidelines, after the fact.
How much did you hear about the hostage from Republicans in Congress when he was being held? Was someone stopping them from jumping in and handling this? Then the President could claim it’s his area of exclusive power, which he would, and they could push back and we’d have a functioning system with everyone doing their job.
lamh36
Wondering if these poor parents have been listening or reading (father’s on twitter) all the things GOP and such saying about their son, who hasn’t even made it back to US yet, right?
Higgs Boson's Mate
Words cannot express my regard and admiration for those hearty souls who never served, much less served in combat, who nonetheless freely explain how a real soldier should act. It makes me wish that every one of those syphilitic jizz licking sons of bitches had one collective neck and I a dull machete.
MikeJ
@D58826:
The NRA?
Mnemosyne
@scav:
Generally speaking, the problem is more that said corporations decided to cut corners all the way around when they outsourced, so they decided to save money on salaries but also on training, equipment, etc. so that a lot of the people working in the call centers are unable to do much to solve problems.
Also, I think people were extremely irritated that companies originally insisted on trying to pretend that they totally did not outsource, so you had clearly Indian-accented people on an obviously overseas phone line claiming that their names were Bradley and Jennifer. Fortunately, most companies seem to have dropped that facade and at least admit their help lines are outside the US.
The Giant Evil Corporation where I work moved a fair amount of its accounting functions to India, but we also have other corporate operations there (including a partnership with both live-action and animation studios) so I don’t have a huge problem with it. Plus they tend to be quick and efficient — I can email them with a problem and I usually have an answer when I get into the office the next morning.
Kay
@lamh36:
Pretty funny sign-off there :)
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
Nope. The Taliban are/were buddies of al-Qaeda and gave them shelter in Afghanistan and Pakistan, but IIRC they’re not considered one and the same.
Ruckus
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Chainsaw.
trollhattan
Ha ha ha ha ha, guess where?
We’re exporting assholes.
abc.net.au/news/2014-06-01/christopher-pyne-says-university-deregulation-force-fees-down/5492218
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Ruckus:
Thret feet of rusty barbed wire with a wooden handle on each end.
kdaug
@Professor: Yes, but then they were mujahedin, honorable freedom fighters defending their country against an outside occupier (oh, wait…).
D58826
@Mnemosyne: IIRC after the Soviets pulled out in 1989 and Bush 41 bailed out soon after Afghanistan fell into one of its periodic civil wars of everyone against everyone else. The winner of that blood letting was the Taliban. The Taliban are Pashtuns from the southern part of Afghanistan with ethnic and political ties to Pakistan. They are proxies for the Pakistan ISI (their CIA).. When OBL and al-Qaeda were kicked out of Sudan (I believe) they found a home in Afghanistan. al-Qaeda was largely made up of Arabs. OBL had made a lot of contacts and allies during the war against the Soviets.
The tribes that we supported – trhe Northern alliance – were from the northern part of the country. I believe the Pashtuns are the majority. As usual we can thanks the Brits for this mess. They divided the Pashtun homeland into Pakistan and Afghanistan thereby creating cross border allies that we have no hope of defeating.
I believe the word Taliban is Pashtun for student. While they are extreme fundamentalists, at least in the early 90s they were the most honest bunch in the country. They even shut down the poppy trade.
Baud
I’m a little upset Obama traded five Gitmo prisoners for Bergdahl. This was a golden opportunity to get rid of Cheney and Obama blew it.
raven
Fucking dope.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@raven:
I didn’t know that Stanford offered a major in Stupid.
Mnemosyne
So apparently Laura Ingraham’s Benghazi derangement has gotten so bad that even her own interviewees mock her for it.
WaterGirl
@Mike J: Spoken like a true IT guy!
I personally think they should throw out data for any call less than 15 or 30 seconds. It takes that long to say “what can I help you with” and the person to write back.
(Had to type in my reply again and change your name to Mike J.)
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
It’s a special program with higher tuition fees.
Ash Can
Somehow I can’t get too excited about five potential terrorists being sent from Gitmo back to the Mideast when we have numerous and regular reports of very real and actual armed terrorists prowling streets right here in America. And there’s a lot more than five of them.
James E. Powell
@lamh36:
Let me break it down for you. And you’ve got to remember that these are just simple politicians and their base voters. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know . . . Republicans . . . morons. (But I repeat myself.)
Stated in the simple terms that characterize Republicans and their voters:
The Taliban = Al Qaeda = All Arabs = All Muslims = Sand Ni—rs = Obama
They are all equally bad because they are all essentially the same thing.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@James E. Powell:
Of course, you then have to extend the chain because:
Obama = Socialism = Communism =Chairman Mao = Chinese Stealing Our Jobs
All of which demonstrates that the Taliban are, in fact, Stealing Our Jobs.
Mnemosyne
@D58826:
And I think that both the Taliban and al-Qaeda are Wahhabists, correct?
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@Mnemosyne:
Yes, as are the Saudis. Wascally Wahabbits, all of them, or so we thought back in the days when the heroic mujahideen were fighting the Evil Empire for Western Liberty.
raven
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Poli Sci!
trollhattan
@raven:
This qualifies him to 1. be in the state legislature and 2. run for governor as a Republican.
“I forgot.”
D58826
@Baud: Actually they did make the offer but they Taliban turned it down. They counter-offered asking for Sarah Palin and a luxury box at next years Super Bowl. Obama couldn’t come up with the tickets in time
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@raven:
Bigot!
How did the anniversary go? Was Madame raven in jocund and even festive mood?
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers):
Sounds like a must-have Minor for MBAs.
Ruckus
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
Works the same, a little slower. Thumbs up here.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Ash Can:
How come no hue and cry when the gov attempted to negotiate with Cliven Bundy and his heavily armed friends?
raven
@Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers): It was just swell, she liked the old school crystal thingy necklace.
Ruckus
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
They hired Yoo. And C. Rice is an alumni.
It is possible that they have a doctorate program in Stupid.
Ash Can
@trollhattan: If he can up his wording to “I don’t recall” he’d qualify for AG in a GOP administration. President, even.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Ruckus:
Rice could graduate that one summa cum laude. And if her “husband” was in the audience she could add some’a come loudly.
burnspbesq
@Higgs Boson’s Mate:
What do you think Richard Sherman’s degree is in?
burnspbesq
@Ruckus:
Wrong on both. Yoo teaches at Berkeley. Rice’s degrees are from Denver and Notre Dame.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@burnspbesq:
I don’t count Sherman’s degree because the Athletics department paid to have him tutored.
Long Tooth
I once waited 5 hours to speak with an ATT internet customer service rep, only because it was obvious the wait was intentionally designed to get me to hang-up and leave them alone. A stupid bastard in the Philippines had the last laugh that night, however, when he abruptly disconnected me after I criticized his incomprehensible english speaking skills.
Tommy
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Negotiate my ass. I don’t own a lot of land. But what I do own I don’t think for a second I could piss off the feds and get away with it. It is the thing I don’t think folks get about Bundy. He has told them to fuck off and they seemed to have backed off. What if next year I decide not too pay my taxes? Arm myself when the IRS calls? Just saying.
Ash Can
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Because if anyone in the news media calls domestic terrorists what they are, they’ll turn into a pillar of salt on the spot, and never get invited to any GOP barbecue parties on top of it.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@burnspbesq:
Hmmm, Rice teaches Business at Stanford; “Now repeat after me; ‘No one could have anticipated….'”
Ash Can
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: “How to Talk to Shareholders and Equities Analysts 101”
Schlemizel
@gbear:
They live in Fucking Montana, I am afraid they wil be doing campaign rallies for McCain and whoever the gooper nominee is in ’16. Its not a huge step to believe that when you look at the sheer number of ignorant MF’ers who slit their own throats every time the vote.
Ruckus
@burnspbesq:
You don’t know how much this pains me. You are right.
Rice was a fellow at Stanford University’s Arms Control and Disarmament Program, don’t know where that led but either the program is misnamed or she must have been a poor fellow.
Yoo has been a professor at Berkley since 1993. He was also a law clerk for Clarence Thomas among other things.
Sorry that I misconstrued that they are both suck ass lawyers and human beings. Oh wait… I didn’t do that.
Tommy
@Higgs Boson’s Mate: Yeah funny. Nobody could have anticipated …..
I was on the last flight out of DC on 9/10. National. I recall my mom waking me up the next morning, telling me to turn on the TV. Terrible shit was going down. Watching on live TV folks jumping out the windows. I tried to call my friends in DC, they were all panicked. I recall putting the phone down and thinking I didn’t need to call.
I got home, to DC, and things were not the same. For months I couldn’t get to work the same way, 110 by the Pentagon, closed to traffic. I recall folks saying they stood in my office and watched the Pentagon burn. It was just right there!
Schlemizel
@D58826:
Somalis, Spanish, Native Americans, if you consider the numerous invasions of Central America by slave powers pre-1860, all Central Americans, the French shot at & killed some Americans when they landed in North Africa in WWII, Russians killed Americans when we invaded in 1918 in support of the White Russians, Koreans, Canadians (we invaded Canada & got our ass kicked in the 1700’s, Mexicans (Mexican-American War), Every nation in South Asia. Chinese as we fought to force them to continue the opium trade when their government tried to outlaw the trade. Central African nations when we fought the proxy was in Congo with CIA/mercs.
I am probably missing some but that thats about 95% of the rest of the world so more may not matter.
Ruckus
@Schlemizel:
I’ll absolutely give them the benefit of the doubt until that happens, no matter where they live. Decent people live everywhere, and are often surrounded by chuckleheads, or if you prefer, assholes.
JPL
@Professor: St. Ronny would never, ever sell arms to terrorists.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@Tommy:
A couple of years before 9/11 the CIA ran some exercises whose premise was that terrorists commandeered airliners and flew them into buildings. Ramzi Yousef attempted to bring down the WTC using a truck bomb in 1993. Of course no one could have anticipated.
gene108
@lamh36:
As posted up thread the GOP wants deny Obama a victory on anything.
The point of what the GOP is doing is to get “Obama bad” sound bites into the media. When people have CNN, NPR, etc. on in the background, they will hear “Obama broke law in securing POW release”, “Obama released 5 most dangerous Al-Qaeda prisoners from GITMO”, “The five prisoners release from GITMO will go back to murdering Americans” and so on.
The dull noise of negativity about Obama has taken its toll on Obama’s popularity and ability to really turn the country against the current GOP brand. The people, i.e. most of us, who do not like what the GOP is doing are demotivated because there’s just no good news coming from anywhere. Food and fuel prices are ridiculously high, pay is stagnant, the job market is weak and the President has just released the five most dangerous people on the planet to continue their fight to kill billions of Americans.
Higgs Boson's Mate
@gene108:
That one really pisses them off. Killing Americans is the job of the GOP and the corporations. .
Schlemizel
@Ruckus:
I’m playing the odds – the race is not always to the swift not the fight to the strong – but thats the way to bet.
I hope I am wrong.
Ruckus
@Schlemizel:
Figured it that way.
@gene108:
This.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@Schlemizel:
Montana’s elected Jon Tester to the Senate for the last couple of terms. Let’s not assume the worst about people prematurely.
gene108
@D58826:
If you want a good read up on the rise of the Taliban and the post-1989 Civil Wars, Taliban, by Ahmad Rashid is a good read.
In short, after the USSR pulled out and the U.S. ignored Afghanistan, the various Mujahadeen factions we armed fought it out for power.
Pakistan had a huge refugee problem from the USSR-Afghan war. Probably 2-3 million Afghan refugees living in camps in Pakistan. Pakistan, in part, wanted to relocate these refugees back to Afghanistan.
Pakistan organized and supported the Taliban (young Afghan Islamic students from the Pakistan camps, who on the face of it were supposed to use Islam to rally and end the civil strife in Afghanistan), so they were able to beat the other warlords and factions in Afghanistan and gain control of most of the country. The Taliban, instead of being a unifying force, were fucking nuts and killed those, who did not agree with what they were pushing. The Taliban nearly started a war with Iran, because Shi’ites were doing the Islam wrong.
Anyway, there was still enough fighting in Afghanistan that Pakistan could not solve its refugee problem, but they could use eastern Afghanistan to train terrorists to attack India.
Then the Taliban let Osama move in and 9/11/01 happened and Pakistan could not come to the aid of the Taliban. The Northern Alliance got superior support from an outside power than the Taliban had gotten from Pakistan, the Taliban had to cut and run to live another day.
The current situation in Afghanistan is more complex than what is revealed by the U.S. media. Iran and India were the biggest supporters of the Northern Alliance. Both of these countries are heavily involved in rebuilding Afghanistan.
Iran’s involvement bothers the U.S., but there’s a large Shi’ite population in Western Afghanistan, and Iran uses them to extend their spheres of influence. India does not want terrorist bases to take hold in Afghanistan again to be used against India, so they have donated a lot to rebuilding Afghanistan. India’s involvement bothers Pakistan and no one really knows for sure WTF Pakistan wants to get out of Afghanistan.
They have probably been propping up the Taliban, because the Taliban was their creation. They have to support U.S. counter-terrorism efforts because the U.S. pays well. The terrorists Pakistan created to attack India have turned on Pakistan and have staged attacks within Pakistan, so Pakistan has taken up counter-terrorism as an actual domestic priority, to some extent.
So what exactly Afghanistan wants to do, as other powers try to push it around will be an interesting situation, but the situation there is more than just the Afghan government and U.S. troops battling the Taliban, as it is portrayed in the U.S. media.
scav
@gene108: “five most dangerous people on the planet”. Thanks for the giggle. (eta, because I assume that’s how you meant it.)
D58826
@gene108: The US continues to get involved in the internal affairs of countries that we do not understand. Vietnam, Cambodia, Somalia, Iraq, Lebanon, Libya and of course Afghanistan. The media covers these stories like they cover the political scene in Washington. Who is up and who is down, the horse race narrative. I remember in the lead up to Vietnam, the North and their Chinese allies would do this that or the next thing if we didn’t stop them. It wasn’t till I was out of college and had some time to do a bit of reading that I found out that the Vietnamese hate the Chinese and have been fighting them for centuries. I just finished reading a history of Kublai Khan and over the course of 10 years the folks who lived in what we now call Vietnam, kicked his butt twice. It would be nice if our leaders did some home work before they invade the next country.
Kay
@Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers):
Especially since he’s from Idaho, not Montana :)
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@Kay:
Bah, a minor detail! Only a liberal do-gooder would care about such things!
Oh wait.. I am a liberal do-gooder!
Ruckus
@Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers):
Glad to see that I’m not the only one to catch mistakeitis today.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@Ruckus:
Well, it was a cunning plan to um cunningly plan to um .. oh goodness, is that the time?
Anyway, the difference between Idaho and Montana is really small potatoes
Bergdahl sounds like quite an idealist:
rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Who among us has not put a World War II-era hand grenade in our luggage absentmindedly?
Villago Delenda Est
@burnspbesq: Well, I think we’ve fairly well established, with this comment, that Richard Sherman is a better human being than you’ll ever be.
SiubhanDuinne
@Villago Delenda Est:
Hand to FSM, I swear this is true, all this talk about Richard Sherman? I honestly thought y’all were talking about one of the Sherman Brothers who wrote lots of hit songs for Disney (featured recently in Saving Mister Banks).
No, apparently there is a football player with the same name. I had no idea.
Morzer (0th of His PseudoName and Founder of the Walter Sobchak Peacekeepers)
@SiubhanDuinne:
The city of Seattle is shaking its collective head in amazement at you. This is Richard “Never voluntarily silent” Sherman (who also happens to be a pretty good cornerback).
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Perhaps you know him as “the scary black man” who seemed angry and
shouted atscared the nice white lady who was interviewing him after a football game? The video played everywhere and there were about 100 threads about it on BJ. (slight exaggeration)I had never heard of Richard Sherman until then, but I watched the “scary” video and read about him and now I am a big fan.
Edit: loved his campy video with Michelle Obama that was posted here yesterday.
WaterGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Richard Sherman is also the guy who called out the media for using the word “thug”, basically as the replacement n-word. Smart as a whip, too.
Oh, and I guess he plays some pretty good football, too, but that’s not why I like him.
James E. Powell
@D58826:
The US continues to get involved in the internal affairs of countries that we do not understand.
What’s to understand? Didn’t the Imperial Messenger or, if your prefer the Mustache of Understanding, explain it well enough?
American boys & girls sticking guns in peoples’ faces and saying “suck on this!”
It makes Americans feel better about themselves. It makes the Master of War rich. It helps politicians get re-elected so they can cut taxes on the rich. It distracts the working class from the ways that the economy is rigged to keep them working class. What more do we need to understand?