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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Brazil v Croatia Open Thread

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109Comments

  5. 5.

    Steeplejack

    Reposted/revised from below:

    I watched the World Cup opening ceremonies on Univision. No honky channels covered it (that I could find), which seems kind of lame. It should at least be on the Ocho. (“ESPN-8: If it’s almost a sport, it’s on the Ocho.”)

    It had sort of an Avatar meets Carnaval vibe. Lots of good-looking Brazilians dancing in exotic costumes, lightly seasoned by J-Lo doing the (mediocre) official song.

    Univision’s wrap-around coverage had a suspiciously high “Ésteban Colberto y chicas” quotient. And I saw Pelé do a Subway commercial. WTF.

    Almost impossible to say Brazil won’t win, but I think Croatia will give them a good game. They looked good in the run-up, and Brazil might be a little giddy/overexcited, at least at first.

  16. 16.

    Tony J

    It’s been coming. Every time Croatia have broken back against the Brazilians they’ve looked dangerous. And now the hosts have to push even harder. If the Croats keep their defensive solidity this could be a bad day for Brazil.

  20. 20.

    burnspbesq

    Love listening to Macca.

    When he was at Liverpool, Pepe Reina once jokingly complained that his children spoke Spanish with a Scouse accent. That must be something to hear.

  22. 22.

    humboldtblue

    That was a wake up for Brazil, no doubt, but they will be vulnerable to a Modric led counter

  27. 27.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @raven:

    HA! I used to subscribe to Sirius, and tended to flip between the NFL and Soccer channels. The soccer channel carried the broadcasts from three teams: Chelsea, Manchester Utd and Celtic. Macca, when compared to the commentator for the Celtic broadcasts, sounds like the voice on a Speak and Spell.

    (I’ll say that once I got used to that Gaswegian accent, I found that Celtic commentator pretty fun.)

  34. 34.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @raven:

    You’ll figure it out. It isn’t too hard to learn the game.

    TTFN- work calls.

  36. 36.

    Morzer

    Well, two goals that had more than a hint of good luck about them, but that was a fun 45 minutes.

  37. 37.

    morfydd

    so the local cruise ship company launched its new ship tonight and scheduled a fireworks show. it climaxed precisely as Brazil scored. who plans these things for WM opening game, even if Germany isn’t playing? :)

  38. 38.

    Morzer

    A nice comment on the Guardian’s live commentary on the game:

    Nothing prepares you for the brazen ferocity of the Croatian anthem. It sounds not unlike a child with a wooden spoon and a biscuit tin followed by a stern beating. Percussion supplied by dustbin lids on boots and sledgehammers. At least it’s mercifully short.

  40. 40.

    Tony J

    @raven:

    They did indeed look flat, but that goal was the kick in the arse they needed to step up a gear or two.

    Still, 2/3 of the game gone and Croatia are still making decent chances while Brazil haven’t actually troubled the Croat keeper that much. Next goal is going to gut punch one of them.

    And if this game ends without a red card I will be very surprised indeed.

  43. 43.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    Flops and calls like that are why I can’t take soccer seriously.

  46. 46.

    Tony J

    @raven:

    That’s no penalty. That is what’s technically known as a dive.

    Oooh, just in. Let’s see what Croatia have left in the tank.

  51. 51.

    max

    So the refs gave the game to Brazil did they?

    max
    [‘Wonder how much they paid for that call?’]

  52. 52.

    Leeds man

    Brazil can’t fashion their own chance, so the ref does it for them. Sweet. Worst call I’ve seen in ages.

  54. 54.

    humboldtblue

    That shitty call in now going to overshadow the group stage, like Brazil needed some help

  55. 55.

    morfydd

    k, I’m missing something. at first I thought it was a BS foul, but on replay the Croatian pulled the guy off his feet by his shoulders. but you guys, and the German announcers, think it was BS. help?

  56. 56.

    Cacti

    @Steeplejack:

    Yes, because of course there’s never a bullshit call in football or basketball.

    Truly.

    It’s amazing the way a giant basketball player will collapse like a house of cards the moment a shoulder makes contact with his chest.

  57. 57.

    Tony J

    Okay, it’s taken 70 minutes but I’m officially in the “I hope this Brazilian team doesn’t win the cup” camp. Far too much cynical fouling and diving for my taste.

  58. 58.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    @Steeplejack: Of course there are bullshit calls in all sports. Football players and basketball players don’t hit the deck as if hit by a sniper when tapped, shoved, or bumped, though. The high def slow motion replays of the “agony” on a player’s face is extra obnoxious.

  64. 64.

    Steeplejack

    @max:

    I think that in real time, depending on the ref’s position and without the benefit of replay and slo-mo, it was a legitimate call, but it was dreadfully mistaken.

  65. 65.

    Cacti

    Football players and basketball players don’t hit the deck as if hit by a sniper when tapped, shoved, or bumped, though.

    Baloney.

    If anyone gets close to the punter, they dive all the time in hopes of drawing a roughing the kicker penalty.

  66. 66.

    burnspbesq

    The offensive player leaned back into contact he was expecting to come, as a way to create space to turn. The contact he was expecting didn’t come, and he fell on his ass.

  67. 67.

    Onkel Fritze

    @Tony J: There was some contact but no way he pulled him. Guy felt a light touch on his shoulder and decided to dive.

  68. 68.

    droog

    Dive, schmive. This game is only interesting because Brazil made it so on the eleventh minute. If it ends with the present 2-1 count Croatia won’t be able to claim they were robbed. The patriotic narrative for the hosts will be that Brazil scored ALL of the goals in the match so shut up.

  69. 69.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    @raven: Hell no. Maybe the last minute or two of playoff games in recent weeks. I’d rather watch a replay of any hockey playoff game than an entire live NBA game.

  70. 70.

    Steeplejack

    @morfydd:

    The Croatian guy’s left hand was on the Brazilian’s left arm/shoulder, but the touch was far too light to cause the Brazilian to go slamming to the ground—especially since the Brazilian dived to his right, the opposite direction you would expect if he were being tugged to the left.

  71. 71.

    Tony J

    @raven:

    Ah, gotcha. Neymar’s double hand-elbow combination in Modric’s face in the first half really deserved a red, but the chances of a ref sending off Brazil’s golden boy in the opening game, somewhere between zero and minus infinity.

  72. 72.

    Cacti

    @droog:

    Brazil has dominated this match, forcing most of the action.

    Almost 2/3 of the possession time, and twice as many shots on goal as the Croats.

  74. 74.

    morfydd

    @humboldtblue:

    I only watch every 2 years when Germany plays, and I’m rooting for the underdog ;)

    but if you dont look at the feet, I’m pretty sure you’re not allowed to grab the player by the shoulders and drag him backward. then again, a Brazilian just grabbed a Croatian by the waist and dragged him backward and there was no call, so…

  75. 75.

    humboldtblue

    @Cacti: They have in no way dominated, Oscar has created a few chances but they have benefited from two very home cooking calls

  78. 78.

    Calouste

    Seriously, there are people who didn’t expect the refs would be in the bag for Brazil? Have you paid any attention to the corruption scandals surrounding FIFA recently?

  80. 80.

    humboldtblue

    No one is saying they are getting robbed, they were called for a penalty that was not a penalty, but they have created their own chances including the great cross that led to the own goal and they have managed to keep Brazil off balance

  82. 82.

    Steeplejack

    @Old Dan and Little Ann:

    [. .&bnsp;.] basketball players don’t hit the deck as if hit by a sniper when tapped, shoved, or bumped, though.

    Jesus, have you watched an NBA game lately? Or ever?

    And NFL receivers “sell” pass interference all the time.

  88. 88.

    humboldtblue

    Brazil better hope they got that “one game” out of their system because they were fortunate to get those three points

  89. 89.

    burnspbesq

    One in off the post, one bullshit penalty, and one after a turnover that looked like a 1970s Times Square mugging. Joga bonito?

  90. 90.

    droog

    I make a post and right after the ref makes the worst call of the game to make me look like a jerk. Disallowing a goal is pretty damning, much more than getting fooled by a dive.

    Up till then I would have agreed with Cacti more than the dissenters. Even if Brazil haven’t dominated the match up until the 80th-ish minute Croatia hadn’t capitalised on their chances. So Croatia couldn’t claim they were robbed if their only chance at competing was Brazil’s own error. However having a goal disallowed on poor grounds is perfect fuel for discussing if you were robbed and paints a completely different picture.

    EDIT: And another goal for Brazil render my paragraphs above moot. Brazil had two fair goals and a third goal on dodgy grounds. Croatia had a goal disallowed but were in contention thanks to a Brazilian error. Overall a poor start to the tournament but I can’t say the Croats were robbed. A crap match but I wouldn’t go as far as saying that the better team lost.

  91. 91.

    Old Dan and Little Ann

    @Steeplejack: I gave up on the NBA some time in the early 90’s. I’ll watch the last few minutes of a playoff game but that’s about it. And I would not equate WR’s selling pass interference with writhing around in agony because someone stepped on your foot.

  92. 92.

    Morzer

    Well, I guess Brazil can thank the fact they had 12 men on the field for that “victory”. This is why I support instant replay for penalty decisions and after every goal. For my money, Croatia have been robbed blind. Still, there is the consolation that the over-rated Brazilian “team” are going to receive a very public ass-whupping the first time they come up against one of the genuinely good sides.

  93. 93.

    humboldtblue

    @droog: He really didn’t disallow the goal, however, he had blown the whistle long before the finish. It was another terrible call but keepers get that sort of protection. Croatia were dangerous all game and FIFA just ensured Brazilian fans didn’t turn out to riot for real

  94. 94.

    burnspbesq

    @droog:

    Also worth noting that there was a Croatian player in perfect position for a tap-in if the Brazilian player hadn’t put it in his own net.

  95. 95.

    Cacti

    @burnspbesq:

    One in off the post

    Fur realz.

    Goals shouldn’t count if they’re not stylish enough.

    Seriously, could your whine be a little more petulant?

  96. 96.

    max

    @Steeplejack: I think that in real time, depending on the ref’s position and without the benefit of replay and slo-mo, it was a legitimate call, but it was dreadfully mistaken.

    Then they need replay and slo-mo. And to stop giving shitty calls to the home team. Refs should stop trying to give receivers so much leeway to draw pass interferance, and god knows what’s going on in basketball. Diving in hockey has gotten bad enough but they have (seriously, actually) cracked down on that crap.

    These things are supposed to be meritocratic athletic competitions, not fucking community theatre Hamlet.

    max
    [‘If they balanced it out with calls on Brazil it might not be so bad.’]

  98. 98.

    humboldtblue

    I didn’t watch postgame but I hope Oscar got man of the match, he was outstanding

  99. 99.

    Cacti

    @Morzer:

    For my money, Croatia have been robbed blind.

    And there it is.

    The team that couldn’t find the back of the net for 90 minutes, and whose keeper couldn’t stop anything were “robbed”.

  100. 100.

    Morzer

    @Cacti:

    That would be the team who had a ridiculous penalty awarded against them and then had a legitimate goal disallowed. But hey, why bother actually watching the game?

  101. 101.

    Morzer

    @Cacti:

    That would be the team who had a ridiculous penalty awarded against them and then had a legitimate goal disallowed. But hey, why bother actually watching the game?

  103. 103.

    Morzer

    @Steeplejack:

    There have been some pretty impressive miracle healings of the sick in the NFL. One minute your 300 pound lineman is rolling around clutching his knee and asking if he’s ever going to walk again – and after a couple of minutes have elapsed he turns into a fucking gazelle as he gallops towards the sideline.

  104. 104.

    droog

    @humboldtblue and

    I’m not disputing that. But in the end Brazil put three goals in with one coming off a dodgy call. Croatia put one that was disallowed (or not, based on the whistle), and were in contention thanks to an own goal by Marcelo. Not the noblest of matches but I can’t say in all honesty that Croatia would have won this if the game had been tidier. I don’t think the outcome would have been reversed. Neymar’s first goal is a goal and a goal is a goal. Brazil and the ref made this game what it was, Croatia looked stately and decorous whilst losing.

    @burnspbesq:

    Possibly, but not certainly. It was just as possible for Marcelo to control the ball like any defender would be expected to do.

    I’m not trying to make a strong argument for Brazil or to disregard the good fight Croatia put up. But looking at who scored and why it was close to begin with, I don’t think this match will go down as one of the worst injustices of WC history. A crap show with the customary home advantage amplified x3 because, hey, it’s Brazil.

  105. 105.

    C.S.

    @Steeplejack:

    Yes, because of course there’s never a bullshit call in football or basketball. . . .
    And no NFL player ever faked an injury timeout to blunt the other team’s momentum?

    Um, you do know that there are roughly 40-50 “scores” in every NBA game, thus lessening the potential impact of a single bad call, right? You do know that blunting a team’s momentum doesn’t hand that team an actual decisive point, right?

    Or maybe you don’t. Or maybe you’re ignoring these facts. But the fact is that soccer is a game that can — and is — regularly decided with one bad call. That’s why players take dives — because there is massive, massive upside and very little downside. And this game will only encourage the practice.

  106. 106.

    humboldtblue

    @droog: Agreed, I felt that Croatia played well enough to earn a point and that penalty completely changed the nature of the match.

  107. 107.

    Steeplejack

    @C.S.:

    So you either agree with Old Dan that “flops and calls like that are why I can’t take soccer seriously” or you completely missed the point of my comments. But thanks for your spirited defense of a point that no one was contesting.

  109. 109.

    pseudonymous in nc

    Well, Brazil look beatable, especially when facing pace, strength and a willingness to use width on counterattacks. Conditions may help them against hard-fast-wide sides, but the Germans probably watched that match and thought “there’s our gameplan.” Croatia were good enough to deserve a point.

    The referee looked weak at best, dodgy at worst.

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