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You are here: Home / Sports / Spain v The Netherlands Open Thread

Reader Interactions

179Comments

  1. 1.

    Morzer

    My bet is on Spain, but given the standard of refereeing so far, I hesitate to go further than that.

  3. 3.

    raven

    Not directed at Mozer but is this whole month going to be taken up with bitching about the officiating? I had to get off my beloved Illini Basketball game thread because that was all it was.

  6. 6.

    West of the Rockies

    I fast-read that as Spain vs. a The Neanderthals… That does create an amusing visual.

  11. 11.

    Tony J

    Oooh, he should have planted that one. Can’t afford to waste chances that clearcut when you play team of Spain’s quality.

  12. 12.

    ? Martin

    Yay ESPN3. I still contend that the most enjoyable place to watch any soccer match is in a Santa Ana laundromat (tuned to Univision, natch), but my Spanish is shit, so I welcome an english commentary for this match.

  15. 15.

    ? Martin

    Yay, Obama!

    In a statement delivered from the White House South Lawn, Obama said the United States “will not be sending U.S. troops back into combat in Iraq,” but that he would be reviewing a range of other options in coming days.
    “This is not going to happen overnight,” the President said, adding that unless Iraq fixes its internal political problems, short-term military help from the United States won’t make much difference.

    Linsday McCain must be having a good cry right about now.

  22. 22.

    Tony J

    What’s Dutch for “Spend the next few minutes flattening anyone in white”? Because it’s pretty clear someone just shouted it.

  32. 32.

    Tony J

    Xavi Alonso, the coolest cat in football. Why we ever sold him to Real Madrid when he didn’t really want to go I don’t know.

  34. 34.

    humboldtblue

    The Dutch are one of the most skilled teams in the world and they are playing like a third division English club team with brutal and ugly soccer

  36. 36.

    burnspbesq

    One thing that casual fans tend to overlook is that Spain has tremendous team speed. When they turn it over, they get numbers behind the ball in a serious hurry.

  38. 38.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @? Martin: @humboldtblue:

    He tripped on a foot that was a foot behind his foot!

    (ETA: And I’m pulling for Spain to win the whole thing- if the US can’t.)

  40. 40.

    Morbo

    @? Martin:

    “We had literally no casualties there in Iraq during the last period after the surge was over,” McCain said, “and by leaving a vacuum, then that was obviously filled.”

    I… what?

  44. 44.

    humboldtblue

    Between Barca, Real Madrid and the national team I know more about and have watched more matches involving these Spanish players than any team since I watched my first WC in 1986

  46. 46.

    Cheap Jim, formerly Cheap Jim

    Spain and the Netherlands? It’s the Eighty Years’ War Rematch!

  47. 47.

    jl

    Hope this contest does not rouse memories of the eighty years war.

    Remember 1648! Go Batavians!

  53. 53.

    Alex S.

    Wonderful goal. The Dutch apparently think that their strikers can run faster than the spanish defenders.

  55. 55.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @humboldtblue:

    Ever seen the Philosophy Football site? They sell t-shirts with footy, philosophy and lefty politics, some a blend of the different themes. Some day I’m going to buy the Cruyff shirt…And the George Best, Eric Cantona and Monty Python shirts, too!

  57. 57.

    Morzer

    Well, at last a game worth watching after the pedestrian lumberings of Brazil and Mexico.

  58. 58.

    jl

    @Morbo:
    @? Martin:
    @raven:

    McCain has consistently maintained that we should have troops stationed in Iraq for an indefinite time, like South Korea.
    He has said consistently that if we are just there, that will do something to solve something to keep something under control.
    And, BTW, this all can be done without any US troops getting involved, or hurt, or killed, or I presume dirty or sweaty or in any tricky position like deciding whether to shoot some insurgent or terrorist or maybe random Iraqis that happen by their vicinity.

    That seems to be his plan. I am not a military person, never served, maybe that is why I can follow neither the logic nor the details.

  60. 60.

    humboldtblue

    @Tony J: That’s what bugs the hell out of me. When they play football well they are tough but also precise and clinical and can dominate in a way that keeps you on the edge of the seat

  61. 61.

    M.C. Simon Milligan

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): “Hegel is arguing that the reality is merely an a priori adjunct of non-naturalistic ethics, Kant via the categorical imperative is holding that ontologically it exists only in the imagination, and Marx is claiming it was offside.”

    One of the funniest things, short of the Killer Joke, ever created by man.

  62. 62.

    ? Martin

    @jl: His basic premise is that nobody else can be trusted to run their country, that the US must have a footprint everywhere, all the time. The sun must never set on the American Empire.

  65. 65.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @humboldtblue:

    Last weekend I watched the 30 For 30 special on Hillsborough. Harrowing shit, even knowing the outcome.

    Got a link for yours? I’d like to check it out, even if I do pull for that team in red that plays north of Liverpool.

    @M.C. Simon Milligan:

    Yeah, THIS!

  66. 66.

    Punchy

    Do they call themselves The Hollandaise, The Netherlanders, or The No-Blemish Flemish? Flams? TooLippers?

  68. 68.

    Tony J

    @humboldtblue:

    They’ve been ‘physical’ in this game, but haven’t descended to anything like the brutal, bad-tempered thuggery of four years ago. They’ll continue to let the Spanish ‘know they’re there’ every now and again, but they appear to be more interested in actually playing football this time around.

  75. 75.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    Jesus, did you think Robben was going to take it to the outside? When has he EVER done that?

  79. 79.

    Randinho

    It’s funny: that’s Robben’s classic move: control the ball and move to the center and shoot. Pique should have known that.

  80. 80.

    Tommy

    @jl: I am a military brat. I was often stationed in places where it was like 95% white folks. But went to school with a number of Asian Americans. Know why? We have bases in Japan and South Korea. American service members fall in love. Get married. They came back here. That clearly isn’t a bad thing in the least, but a permanent force someplace, well they need to ponder what that means. You have to staff said place.

    Now I am still near a large military base and most of my friends and family serve. Japan, South Korea, heck Germany are seen as good posts for younger folks. You know the government pays you to see another part of the world. Not sure how many folks would like to staff Iraq.

  82. 82.

    Tony J

    Oooh, if there’s better footage of that ‘forward nod’ by Diego Costa he’s going to be sitting out a few games.

    The last thing the Spanish need now is to lose a player, especially a striker. They need to get their foot on the ball and pin the Dutch back or they’re going to concede more.

  84. 84.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    @Randinho:

    As the Men In Blazers have pointed out many times, Robben creates a hypnotic vortex with his left hand that causes defenders to play him as if he’s going to go to the outside.

  85. 85.

    Tony J

    @Randinho:

    Yup. A man with a head so wide strikers couldn’t even see the goal.

    And again, Van Persie should never have been allowed to get a shot off from there.

  86. 86.

    burnspbesq

    Oh my. Didn’t see this coming.

    Casillas has been pretty bad on two of the three Dutch goals.

  89. 89.

    Tony J

    Bloody Hell. Game over. But given last night’s decision against the Croats that looked a lot like a foul on Casillas to clear the way for the header.

    And Silva offside. Maybe not so over, this is Spain after all.

  94. 94.

    morfydd

    Oh dear. A round of schnapps per goal didn’t sound dangerous… it’s soccer after all…

  97. 97.

    burnspbesq

    @Randinho:

    There was contact, but Casillas had mis-read the cross so egregiously that the contact had nothing to do with the goal. Good non-call.

  99. 99.

    Alex S.

    @Amir Khalid:

    But in what order? And did the name of the royal house have any connection to the color orange? Are the shirts orange because of the House of Orange or because orange is the color of the dutch?

    Hmm, this is the end of the spanish era…

  101. 101.

    Onkel Fritze

    That result might just set up a Brazil-Spain game for the next round.

    Shit, 4-1 now.

    Maybe going to be Brazil-Chile.

  105. 105.

    Tony J

    Bloody hell, Casillas, what was that? 4-1, Spain in all kinds of doo doo. Wonder if goal difference is going to play a part at the end of this group.

  111. 111.

    Lee

    The problem with passing it back to the keeper is their foot skills are not the best on the team.

  112. 112.

    ? Martin

    Did not expect this to turn into a rout. Kids, never make it too easy on the goalie. 80 percent of success is showing up.

  113. 113.

    Leeds man

    If (my memory of) history teaches us anything, early Dutch success spells inevitable Dutch exit in clouds of rancour.

    The van Persie goal was a thing of beauty.

  114. 114.

    burnspbesq

    @Randinho:

    I thought the contact was more severe than the one against Julio Cesar yesterday.

    It was, for sure. But Casillas was hopelessly out of position, and he wasn’t getting back even if there had been no contact.

  116. 116.

    droog

    There’s something cringingly addictive about a team that can’t get its defensive line to react to events in real time. I’ve seen dead goldfish fight a flushing toilet with more success.

  121. 121.

    ? Martin

    @Lee: True, but a World Cup goalie’s foot skills should be better than a high-school striker’s. Not as much as in auto racing, but rain is still an equalizer in soccer. I remember many games that we had no right winning thanks to the challenges of playing in the rain.

  122. 122.

    Alex S.

    Possible final Netherlands vs Belgium?

    Robben has the potential to become the player of the tournament.

  123. 123.

    Lee

    @Randinho: True. But sometimes it becomes very obvious footwork is not their strong suite. That pass was probably too hard but the keeper should have been able to recover.

    Holy shit….5-1

  124. 124.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    Arjen Robben just sort of runs around with the ball until all of the defenders fall down, then scores.

  126. 126.

    Calouste

    @Alex S.:

    The Dutch Father of the Fatherland, William the Silent, was a German prince who inherited a French title, grew up in Belgium and then worked for the king of Spain.

  127. 127.

    Amir Khalid

    5-1. If second place in the group comes down to goal difference, I don’t see Spain getting into the knockout stages.

  128. 128.

    Tony J

    Frigging Nora. The best Spain can hope for now is to keep it in single figures. Outpaced, outmuscled, out of the tournament if they play this way against Chile.

    Blame it on the rain.

  129. 129.

    burnspbesq

    New Spanish theme song:

    When Black Friday comes,
    Gonna dig myself a hole,
    Gonna lay down in it
    til I satisfy my soul.

  130. 130.

    Lee

    @? Martin: My kids play here in North Texas. We get rain & cold at the same time.

    A wet soccer ball at 35 degrees is like a &$#($&$ hockey puck.

  131. 131.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @Randinho: I agree that the contact was worse than yesterday’s, but that goal shouldn’t have been disallowed. I thought the ref shafted Croatia multiple times yesterday, to the tune of about 2.5 net goals.

  133. 133.

    morfydd

    wow. I was in a public viewing in Hamburg 4 years ago, and after the rampant thuggery the whole crowd turned against the Netherlands. this game is pure revenge, and while they’re still thugs, they’re playing brilliantly.

  134. 134.

    Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)

    If I didn’t mention it in the WC group round preview, The Netherlands is going to crap out in the first game of the knockout round.

  136. 136.

    Onkel Fritze

    @Randinho

    Told you you underestimated the Dutch. To be fair, did NOT see that coming.

  137. 137.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    Uhm, aren’t their supposed to be two teams playing in a soccer match?

  142. 142.

    ? Martin

    @Lee: Yeah, they hurt. You lose your footing. The ball plays really funny with water on it, it doesn’t roll well. It’s fucking hard to hold onto for the goalie (though I imagine that’s improved a lot on the last 25 years). It’s just different enough to throw everyones rhythm off. And it can be pretty damn miserable to play in. Doubly so if you’re losing. Credit to the Dutch for keeping their head in it.

  144. 144.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @morfydd: I don’t know that the Dutch are playing all that much more thuggish than the Spanish are. It’s been a brutal game all around. If it were hockey, we would have declared, “These two teams don’t like each other.”

  145. 145.

    burnspbesq

    And Fernando Torres fails to convert a gilt-edged opportunity. Not like we’ve ever seen that before.

  148. 148.

    Morzer

    @burnspbesq:

    Might just be time for a completely black front page with 5-1 in white. What an absolute annihilation the Dutch inflicted.

  150. 150.

    Amir Khalid

    @? Martin:
    That was true of the old leather footballs, as I remember. But in recent decades, they’ve been made of synthetic materials that are much less prone to retain water in wet conditions. (Well, so adidas says, and it’s been the official ball supplier for the World Cup since the 1960s or something like that.)

  152. 152.

    Morzer

    @Amir Khalid:

    The old leather footballs were a real danger to life and limb when it rained. You could concuss yourself heading one of those things, especially if it came down on you from a great height.

  153. 153.

    droog

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):

    The stats at the Guardian say Spain had 4 fouls and Netherlands 16. I don’t think accounting for referee bias would tilt that scale back to level.

    Anyway, congratulations to Spain for achieving 57% possession, their most coveted goal. And congratulations to the Netherlands for achieving their goal of actual, bonafide goals. Ten shots on target against Spain’s two.

  155. 155.

    Morzer

    @Randinho:

    I agree with you on this one. I thought the two Dutch players went in on Casillas with little or no interest in going for the ball.

  156. 156.

    Morzer

    @burnspbesq:

    And the words “disaster” and “humiliated” in the opening lines. Oh and “tactical disarray” which seems almost an understatement.

  158. 158.

    burnspbesq

    According to AS, the last time Spain gave up five or more was in a 6-2 loss to Scotland in 1963.

  161. 161.

    burnspbesq

    L’Equipe wins the headline contest.

    “Les Pays-Bas Ridiculisent L’Espagne.”

  162. 162.

    Morzer

    @burnspbesq:

    I wonder whether the Dutch newspapers are going to discuss the topic of candy acquisition from children.

    Once again, my life decision never to bet on sport is justified.

  164. 164.

    humboldtblue

    Other than Amsterdamians the happiest people on the planet right now are Chile fans. That goal differential could help see them through to the next round

  165. 165.

    pseudonymous in nc

    I predicted this one to be tight and cagey, or driven by 2010 emotions and totally bonkers.

    It wasn’t tight and cagey. That was a clogging.

    Small sample size so far, but I wonder whether Brazil 2014 may reward teams that counterattack quickly and forcefully over ones that try to maximise possession. Waiting to see how Germany start for that.

    @Alex S.:

    Possible final Netherlands vs Belgium?

    Hahaha, no. As they said at the Grauniad, it’s always lovely to see the Dutch playing well, right up to their quarter-final exit.

  166. 166.

    burnspbesq

    De Telegraaf: “Weergaloze revanche” (unparalleled revenge).

    And below the fold, “Oranje slacht Spanje” (Orange slaughter Spain).

  167. 167.

    Morzer

    @burnspbesq:

    Is that the Dutch for “Humiliations Galore!”?

    I have to say that if your Plan B is Fernando Torres, you might want to try moving straight to Plan C.

  168. 168.

    droog

    The term is limited to a little bit of Dominican history, but this occasion is ripe for recalling “La España Boba“*. The mighty nation is all bogged down and listless.

    *And Wikipedia isn’t right: “boba” means more like “dumb” or “slow” than “foolish”.

  169. 169.

    humboldtblue

    @burnspbesq: It’s not really revenge because it’s not a title game or even a knock out round game. Great and decisive win but the revenge angle is overplayed

  170. 170.

    Morzer

    @humboldtblue:

    It’s not really revenge because it’s not a title game or even a knock out round game.

    5-1 looks pretty good as a candidate for a truly epic vengeance to me, regardless of the level of the competition at which it occurred.

  171. 171.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @humboldtblue:

    It’s not really revenge because it’s not a title game or even a knock out round game.

    But it’s exorcising a few demons, and also a kind of apology for the imposter Dutch team that showed up for the final in 2010.

  172. 172.

    pseudonymous in nc

    @humboldtblue:

    It’s not really revenge because it’s not a title game or even a knock out round game.

    But it’s exorcising a few demons, and also a kind of apology for the impostor Dutch team that showed up for the final in 2010.

  174. 174.

    droog

    @humboldtblue:

    I disagree. You can’t really hope to face your most recent WC bane at the final. The chances of that are low. You take your revenge when you can. And this was the perfect setting.

    Winning the final is business. Demolishing the team that foiled you in a very high-stakes match is personal. AKA, sweet revenge.

  176. 176.

    agorabum

    @jl: There is no logic.
    South Korea invited us in. First, we kicked out the Japanese (which got us big ups). Then we saved their bacon from the commie NorKos, and then ChiComs (so very happy to have us there). While there have been occasional protests, nobody in the government wants to see us leave (with the nutters just across the border).
    Even with the Germans, they saw us less as conquerors and more as saviors (from the Russian commies – who Hitler had been ranting about to them for a decade). And then in the Berlin Airlift, we solidified our savior status. So they saw us as big-hearted protectors.
    In Iraqi, we were the bumbling warmongers – good at blowing things up, incompetent at peacekeeping, and always stomping on their neck with raids, checkpoints, and trigger-happy shoot-ups. There was a slim window where we could have shown ourselves to be the good guys, but that window closed before the end of 2003. After that point we were just the occupiers, who they wanted out ASAP.
    Germany, Japan, South Korea – they can kick us out anytime (see: Philippines). But they want us there. Iraq never wanted us there – even if some individuals liked the Americans they worked with.

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