Reason number-infinity-plus one I’m glad I never had kids, from Jonathan Chait at NYMag:
Debra Harrell is currently in jail because she let her 9-year-old daughter play, unsupervised, in a public park. Almost everything about this story (which I noticed courtesy of Lenore Skenazy) is horrifying. Harrell works at McDonald’s. Her daughter used to tag along and stare at a screen at her mother’s workplace during the day. She asked to go to the park instead, was discovered to be without an adult, and her mother was arrested. Compounding the horribleness is the news coverage, in which reporters and onlookers alike are united in disgust at Harrell…
The story is a convergence of helicopter parenting with America’s primitive family policy. Our welfare policy is designed to make everybody, even single mothers, work full-time jobs. The social safety net makes it difficult for low-wage single mothers to obtain adequate child care. And society is seized by bizarre fears that children are routinely snatched up by strangers in public places. The phenomenon is, in fact, nearly as rare as in-person voting fraud. But when you watch the report above, you can see everybody involved believes such a thing plainly happens all the time…
Chait has video at the link, if you want to lose any remaining faith in humanity.
The summer I was nine years old, I was not only allowed but expected to take my seven- and six-year-old brothers to the playground at the end of the block, and make sure we all came home not less than three hours later, having successfully avoided (a) the ‘perverts’ lurking around the public bathroom; (b) crippling injuries from the asphalt play surfaces, unsupervised slides/swings/monkey bars/sprinkler pool, and inappropriate climbing of trees/utility structures; and (c) letting my brothers ‘stray’ down the street to the irresistible- yet-dangerous Major Deegan Expressway overlook. We didn’t even have a cellphone for emergencies, although we’d been shown the police call box on the corner at the far end of the park. And the only community comment about my mom’s parenting style was that she was over-fearful — did a seven-year-old really need to be individually monitored, in the middle of a summer afternoon? (In my brothers’ case: Yes, if only for the sake of the six-year-old.)
Despite what you might think from the onion on my belt, while University Heights in the Bronx in the mid-1960s was not exactly Fort Apache, I’m willing to bet it was at least as dangerous as Augusta SC in 2014. This isn’t about the “safety” of a little girl, it’s about Competitive Parenting for a bunch of busybodies, with a strong assist from our modern Prison-Political Industry looking to make money off the low-risk arrest and ongoing “supervision” of a woman without the resources to fight back.
rikyrah
Top Georgia Officials Are Going After Black Leaders Who Organized Voters
By Spencer Woodman Jul 15 2014
On the morning of December 21, 2010, Lula Smart was preparing to leave for her job at Sears when she heard a firm knock at her front door. An array of law enforcement vehicles had amassed outside, and armed officers were fanning out around her house. Before that day, Smart had no rap sheet to speak of, only a master’s degree in criminal justice earned earlier that year. While she enjoyed her work in retail, Smart hoped to transition into a job more like that of her unannounced visitors, who would read her a dizzying list of felony voting fraud charges that amounted to more than 100 years in prison. Handcuffed, Smart soon met nine other incarcerated African Americans who had participated in a vigorous get-out-the-vote campaign ahead of an election the previous month. Three of those jailed had been elected to the local school board.
Their efforts had helped to win the first-ever African American majority on Brooks County’s Board of Education. But almost four years after that vote, dozens of felony fraud charges still overshadow the group, known locally as the Quitman 10 + 2 (two more were subsequently charged). In her living room, Smart points to the television where she first saw her orange-jumpsuit-clad mug shot on the nightly news. She is the only member of the group who has not yet seen a trial—or, more precisely, she’s had two mistrials and counting. Since receiving 32 felony charges, her hoped-for career in criminal justice has, obviously, stalled. She now works full-time at Home Depot and fills in part-time shifts selling shoes at the department store. Before the first trial, she contemplated suicide, but says her resolve has since grown.
Smart’s arrest was the result of a massive investigation initiated by a local district attorney whose senior assistant attorney sat on the Brooks County school board. Although this conflict of interest disqualified the DA from trying the case, it didn’t prevent him from compelling the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI) to launch an exceptionally large probe into the disruptive school-board election.
http://www.vice.com/read/the-quitman-10-2-and-voter-suppression-in-modern-georgia-715
beltane
When I was a little kid in the dirty old NYC of the 1970s, my mother would give me money to go out and buy the Sunday NYT for her. One of my favorite childhood memories was of the snow day, the only snow day we ever had, in 4th grade, when my friend and I walked to Central Park all by ourselves to play in the snow with other children who were similarly unaccompanied by an adult.
Princess
Oh, Debra is black. How astonishingly surprising. Not.
Joshua James
well, when I was five and six, I went outside and played, too, all day, unsupervised… but it was not long after that, of course, that they started putting pictures of missing children on milk cartons by the truckload… because they were abducted…
In other words, anecdotes are not data.
But I feel for the woman in the story, daycare is very freaking expensive, costs a hell’ve a lot more than they pay you at McDs, so imo she’s also been done wrong in that she simply had no other options…
but that’s not to say that letting a young child run around a a city playground is exactly safe, either… we just need a better way (publicly funded daycare) to fix the problem…
just my opinion, no more or less…
Botsplainer
From what I read about this story, this may have been a park in the nice white part of town, the child being of color.
Damned at Random
We ran wild in the summer- we were expected to show up for meals (unless we were eating at a friend’s house – in which case we were expected to call) and the night was over when the streetlights came on. And I was allowed to take a bus to the library – alone – twice a week from about age 8 on.
scav
Jesus, at nine years old I was up the fucking side of a mountain over a mile from home with no trail there. All kids, no parents knew exactly where: “down by the creek” apparently covered a lot of territory. (There were things we knew not to do on our own, all the same). At what exact point, at what age, are some of these kids going to learn to take care of themselves?
mtiffany
…which was the style at the time. Now, to take the ferry cost a nickel, and in those days, nickels had pictures of bumblebees on ’em.
“Just be home by the time the street-lights come on.” My parents’ morning instructions to me before they went to work during my school summer vacations in the 70s.
CTVoter
The summers I was 7-14 meant you went out of the house, stayed out of the house, until dinner, and then went out of the house, again, until it got dark. Those days are gone. In my hometown, it was the murder/rape of 3 girls that made everyone nervous. And the razor blades in apples for Halloween treats.
But had those three young girls been white 12 year olds from “safe” sections of town, the fear would have been suffocating.
Hal
I just read the story at the link, and for some reason they quote this busy body more than once:
Yes, Lesa with an E, I’m sure there absolutely must have been someone for this McDonald’s employee to have watch her child. Doesn’t everyone Leeeesa?
Ms. Harrell could go on welfare and stay home, but that would be wrong of her to leach off of society. She could have had an abortion instead of having a child, but hey, that’s murder. We could have support services for people like her so that they can go and work and leave their children in the care and supervision of adults, but that would be socialism. Maybe Lesa with an E would like to baby sit?
NotMax
The cocooning of America, chapter gazillion.
WaterGirl
Wow, that’s fucked up. And by that, I mean both the story Anne Laurie linked to and the story at rikyrah’s link.
rikyrah
‘Brazen’: WI GOP tried to retroactively legalize campaign abuses after Scott Walker scandal
By David Edwards
Tuesday, July 15, 2014 14:58 EDT
Republican lawmakers in Wisconsin quietly tried to slip through a bill that was “designed” to decriminalize campaign abuses after prosecutors began investigating Gov. Scott Walker’s (R) associates over illegal issue ads during the 2011 and 2012 recall elections, a report suggested this week.
For several years, prosecutors have been investigating the possibility that Walker’s campaign illegally coordinated with conservative groups, like the Koch brothers-funded Americans for Prosperity, and the Wisconsin Club for Growth. In October of 2013, the so-called John Doe investigation executed search warrants on two of Walker’s top associates, and subpoenaed the director of the Wisconsin Club for Growth.
The Center for Media and Democracy revealed on Tuesday that just weeks after those search warrants were executed, Senators Mary Lazich (R) and Zach Bemis (R) began working on a bill that “would have had the effect of legalizing the issue ad coordination under investigation.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/15/brazen-wi-gop-tried-to-retroactively-legalize-campaign-abuses-after-scott-walker-scandal/
beltane
@scav: My teenagers have so little autonomy compared to what I had. I’m not sure if it’s good or bad, but it is very, very different.
Mary G
Ugh, I am fast losing faith in humanity. Between Anne Laurie’s story and Rikrah’s link, it’s just out-and-out war on black women, isn’t it? Disgusting.
I too chose not to have kids due to my terrible health, and used to kind of regret it, but more and more I feel I did my eggs a favor by letting them quietly pass their expiration date in situ.
Cassidy
Personally, I’m just tired of seeing people talk about how much better they are at parenting than everyone else and I can remember the time they were surrounded by more dick than they could physically hold into.
Comrade Dread
There are a lot of moral busybodies and scolds in this country. Seems to even spill out to the non-religious folk too.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: Blood boiling. Rev Al needs to publicize this travesty. Sadly it looks like Gov Deale is about to win in November.
rikyrah
when I was a child during the summer, the only instructions I received were:
” you better be in this house when the streetlights come on.”
that was it.
I’m so angry about this woman’s case
Laertes
What the fuck? Nine years old…that’s what, fourth grade? In the fourth grade I was riding my bike two miles each way to school, and had an otherwise free range of about half a mile in any direction. I’d play unsupervised most of my free time, often in undeveloped woods.
Jail? For letting her kid play in a park? The fuck?
Kay
This one is pretty amazing too:
Cassidy
I’ll also add that kid’s today are fine. They’re smart. It’s complete nonsense that they’re not as tough or independent or any of that other crap that goes along with the shorts being too short and the music too loud.
Patricia Kayden
@rikyrah: Wisconsonites had a chance to recall that fool and chose not to do so. That is all.
Old Dan and Little Ann
I used to play on a scary ass 70’s playground at the Little League fields when I was about 5 or 6. My sisters were playing Pixie Softball and I was left to my own devices. Good times.
Kay
@rikyrah:
I’m going to send it to Rick Hasen at election law blog. It is right up his alley.
raven
Jeter is done. 2 hits one run scored.
eta ACCCK George fucking Will is with the commish, La Rusa, Hammerin Hank and the other dignitaries!
beltane
@Comrade Dread: This past year my 13 year old son was hugged by a girl in his class which caused him a minor amount of distress that was noted by a teacher (7th grade is like that). What caused him much more distress was when child protective services was brought in by the school to investigate. It reminds me of stories a friend of mine who grew up in communist Romania used to tell me. A surveillance state isn’t just about cameras and the monitoring of online activity, it’s about enforcing conformity in all areas of life.
Karen in GA
Oh, Christ. In my elementary school in Brooklyn in the 70s children could take the school bus up to age 7, then they were expected to walk.
Anyway, it’s an open thread. So Iggy’s heartworm positive test was confirmed by another heartworm positive test. He starts his antibiotics tonight, and his Immiticide and strict confinement in 29 days. I’m nervous about this, but resolved to get him through it, because fuck the alternative.
By the way, Iggy watches too much TV.
Baud
Speaking of leaving children alone:
Aunt Kathy
Hmmm, I hear & understand what everybody’s saying, & nobody is wrong, exactly, but there sure is a lot of certainty about how safe kids probably are. As somebody who has had a family member taken, from right in front of the freaking house, (luckily returned, but all was not well), I can’t be so certain. It’s easy to be cavalier if you’ve had no experience with such things.
Kay
@Cassidy:
It does get nutty. though. My eldest liked to walk to school. He had to walk, we live too close for the bus, but he also liked to walk. People we knew kept stopping and picking him up while taking their own kids to school. It is, tops, half a mile. It’s cold here in the winter but he grew up and moved away and chose to live in Chicago. Obviously doesn’t mind cold. He still walks everywhere :)
Joshua Norton
If my mother had to follow me around every day, neither one of would have made it past my childhood.
Yatsuno
Shit just got interesting in Kansas.
EDIT: Damn you Baud!!!
Jo6pac
How sad, I’m 65 and wonder around my neighborhood when I was 6, it was mostly adults but us little ones were always welcome. Then when I was 7 we moved to Niles, Calif. and everyone knew everyone and helped others. Then again as some one pointed out it about color and that’s not how I grow up in Niles. Sad days as the elite proxies divided Amerikans. Main Street is being driven into the ground.
Roger Moore
@raven:
That’s “Baltimore Orioles minority owner George fucking Will”, to be exact. Remember that the next time you hear him discuss baseball. He’s not just a fan but an owner, and if you don’t think that affects his judgment, I have a friend in Nigeria who would like to discuss the chance of a lifetime.
Kay
@Baud:
Democrats should listen to me :) They can win on public ed.
They don’t though. Listen to me. Enough :)
schrodinger's cat
NYT magazine has decided to give Onion a run for its money
scav
@Aunt Kathy: Absolute security is a bit of a utter mirage and comes with trade-offs in any case. And why is it ok for some to not vaccinate their kids — which endangers others — but the nosy nellies go ballistic when a parent trusts their own ten-year-old to go the the park, which endangers far fewer other people? Freedom for some but not for others? Yes, there’s a lot of grey areas, but the playing field always seems to concretely favor a chosen few. I mean, jail?!
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: Did you read Joe Klein’s latest tirade against DeBlasio and public school teachers?
Baud
@Kay:
If Davis can win in Kansas, maybe the Democrats will start listening to you.
On the other hand, would you listen to someone who posts at Balloon Juice?
schrodinger's cat
@Baud: I would, Tunchlanders are smart and funny. Plus, Kay is smarter than the average BJer.
Suffern ACE
@Kay: I would be glad to listen to you if I were running for something . Maybe I should run just for the chance to follow your advice .
Constance
When I was eight years old, in Denver, with a single mom and a five-year old brother, all summer long he and I walked several blocks to the park with a swimming pool and spent most of the day there, unsupervised. We had our towels, a sandwich apiece and there was a water fountain.
Two years later in Seal Beach, California, all the kids in the neighborhood spent summer days and weekends on the beach, unsupervised, and we often spent time on the giant rock jetty that separated the military water from the beach water. Looking back, I’m amazed that none of us ended trapped in tunnels in that jetty or fell nto the water and drowned.
We were taught not to cross the street until we had stopped, looked and listened for cars. I still do that today, sixty some years later. We were also taught not to get into cars with strangers and to run like hell if a stranger drove his car up close in order to talk to us.
I’m glad I had that kind of childhood. I don’t envy the children of helicopter parents.
schrodinger's cat
When I was a kitten, I would go to the park with my neighbor’s daughters who were six and five years older than I was. I was about the same age as the girl in story. We had to be home before dusk, that’s all.
Baud
@schrodinger’s cat:
True. Although, admittedly, my presence here tends to bring down the average.
Kay
@schrodinger’s cat:
No, I refuse. What is he mad about? Someone said something vaguely positive about public schools?
It’s gotten ridiculous. The whole thing is fear-based. if it’s so wonderful they shouldn’t have to scare the shit out of people to sell it.
Mike in NC
When I was 10 years old I was able to ride the subway alone into downtown Boston to go shopping for toy soldiers.
Kay
@Suffern ACE:
You have to run. I see my role more as an advisor :)
The Michigan Democrat for governor is running as a relative of public school teachers too. I don’t remember which relative, his mother was a teacher? Anyway, I wrote him an email to tell him to keep it up. I think he was probably very encouraged by that. The Ohio Democrat’s wife is a dietician for a school system, which is okay I guess, but he’s going to have to try harder on this.
Anoniminous
@rikyrah:
This is why we have a Justice Department at the Federal level, to stop this kind of horsepucky.
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: He is upset about teacher’s unions, I haven’t really figured out why.
Baud
@Kay:
Is there enough time for him to get divorced and marry a school teacher before November?
Kay
@schrodinger’s cat:
Because they’re all sex offenders? I heard that from Campbell Brown. True or false? She was on CNN so it must be true, right? Why don’t they just cut to the chase and start the witch trials?
It just seems so blatantly manipulative and all of them are incredibly wealthy and also famous. I’m just sick to death of it. To listen to them, all of the problems in this country are the fault of public schools; all of it, income inequality, segregation, falling wages. Am I wrong to think that’s a little… convenient when it’s pushed so hard by such powerful people? NOTHING to do with tax policy, labor rights, executive compensation, captured lawmakers? Wow. The declining middle class is the FAULT of the middle class? Glad we got that solved!
Hal
In today’s not all men news:
http://aspiringpolymath.tumblr.com/post/91896737072/reblogalert-boneycircus-nicholas-lord-a
beltane
@Hal: A real genius that one is.
Kay
@Baud:
They gave him a hard time because his wife has two jobs. She also works weekends at a hospital as a dietician. It’s a little odd, that is a lot, but they have four kids and maybe she doesn’t like campaigning :)
satby
Not only did I and my friends play outside at young ages unsupervised in any real sense, but we started taking the train downtown to the Loop at about age 10, alone, to go hang out at the Art Institute on Michigan Ave.
But then, my dad was a homicide cop, and knew that the most likely danger to us was from people we knew, which still holds true today. Stranger abduction is extremely rare. And for those people who inevitably ague that there’s no way they would take a single chance no matter how remote I just ask “so how do you get around without driving in a car? Because the statistical odds of being in a car accident are way higher.”
And because I believed that my kids needed to develop the same ability to navigate the world outside our home, I raised them essentially the same way, though they didn’t start taking the train alone until maybe 13. That was in the ’80s
schrodinger's cat
@Kay: I really don’t get this demonization of teachers. When I used to study Indian classical dance, we would start each class with the recitation of a Sanskrit shloka that likened the teacher to the Hindu trinity and that you dedicate your practice to your guru (teacher).
Cervantes
@Hal:
It should be.
WaterGirl
@Karen in GA: well, shit, I was hoping for a different result. I did feel better after elmo (I think) said he had treated a bunch of dogs with heart worm, so it sounds like it’s not as touch and go as it used to be. I am sure they have refined the treatment since the dog I knew 20+ years ago, and even he made it!
Tell Iggy he had best not trash talk the vet, who might just be his new best friend. (after you, of course)
SiubhanDuinne
@Patricia Kayden:
Deal and Carter are tied within the MOE in all the recent polls I’ve seen, and it’s still 3-1/2 months until the election. And Deal is getting a lot of renewed unwanted attention on his ethical, uh, challenges thanks to a whistle-blower who was the state ethics commission chair.
A lot of us in GA are doing all we can to remove Bad Deal from office. Please don’t just give up and hand him the election, especially so long in advance.
WaterGirl
@Baud:
Make that a definite yes!
Edit: Though I have to admit it does vary from person to person.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Hmm. So humble about your brains, but oh so cocky the other night about your good looks. :-)
:: pondering ::
askew
@SiubhanDuinne:
If it wasn’t for the runoff, I’d think Carter was favored. But, it’s going to be hard work to get him over 50% to avoid runoff.
J R in WV
When I was that age, we were being attacked once or twice a week, they would throw paint on the house, and then call to tell us it could have been gasoline. They sprayed the entire lawn and all trees and shrubs with herbicide, and poured tar with tacks in it on the driveway.
They threatened to throw acid in my face, I was in the 2nd or 3rd grade. My parents tried to protect me from all this. I had a big boxer dog named Ginger to run with me. They stopped letting me walk to school.
Finally the crooked politicians were induced to stop their sick campaign. I was again allowed to run in the woods with my dogs, as I was before Crooked Clovis Hanks attacked my family.
My point here is that my father accused Hanks of being a crooked pol, at which point Hanks began to prove to all that he was a piece of scum, willing to attack, vandalize, threaten, terrify, all to maintain his cozy political job he was using to make money, as opposed to serving his community.
In the absence of Hanks I was allowed to ride a bike anywhere, downtown to the library or the news stand where I would by paperback books, 2 for 35 cents. I was allowed to run free in the woods til dinner time, as determined by my hungry stomach.
This lady is probably guilty of letting her black littel girl play in the white folks park, and will be lynched for that crime. Or at least put in prison and have the little girl taken away from her. Lots worse than other outcomes from playing in a park without parental supervision.
These people should be ashamed of themselves. If they were successful busybodies they would have started a committee to maintain proper parental supervision at all the city parks, so that all the kids could play in a park without fear of being attacked by an idle busybody!
Has everyone forgotten friendship? Helping hand? Yes, they are totally not interested in getting to know anyone darker, helping little darker kids. Not. Interested.
Rather break up a family, get those dark people out of town!
ruemara
@Cervantes: Amen
Botsplainer
@Baud:
Goddamn RINOs. Kris Kobach is now undoubtedly combing the state archives for potential dirt. If he can’t find it, he’ll create it, just like Baby Jesus would have wanted it.
SiubhanDuinne
@satby:
At roughly the same age, maybe even a bit younger, I routinely went to the Loop either on my own, with younger siblings, or with friends my own age, to the Art Institute, Orchestra Hall, and the Field Museum/Shedd Aquarium/Adler Planetarium complex. Sometimes, when we were a little older, we’d go to the Museum of Science & Industry (or as we called it, “Museum of Science & Interesting”).
Always loved the Thorne Rooms at the Art Institute.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Patricia Kayden: You might just want to take step back here. A lot of people in Wisconsin put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into the protests and the recall effort. There are people who comment on this blog who have arrested and prosecuted for their actions during the ongoing protests. There are precincts in Milwaukee that vote more than 90% Democrat. The most Republican friendly ward in Milwaukee voted 55% for Obama. Madison is 70% Dem. And so on. If you want to pursue that line of reasoning, you may as well say, “Fuck all of us in the US” because Bush II was reelected in 2004.
rikyrah
@Kay:
thank you Kay for pointing out their hideousness.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@SiubhanDuinne: Sure, your train ride was shorter. Some of us lived in the outer suburbs at that age.
pseudonymous in nc
It’s @Princess:
In good ol’ South Calalacky.
It’s pretty clear that certain people are much happier calling the cops and CPS to deal with the Feral Child Problem than, y’know, treating them as part of their community and keeping half an eye out for them. Because it’s all about the children, dontchaknow?
Stella B.
When I was five, for the first week of kindergarten my mom walked me to school. After that I walked to and from school with my next door neighbor who was a mature first grader. My mom’s brother was shot and killed at age 11 and yet my sister and I were still allowed to run loose just about as far as our bicycles would take us. I see big kids getting walked to and from school by mom or a nanny all the time now. I have a Spanish friend who grew up running around Madrid on her own and American over-protection just boggles her mind. She is especially offended that her two year old girl has to wear a top at the swimming pool.
Of course, my mom is white.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Lake Street El, from Oak Park Avenue. I still ride it in my dreams occasionally.
satby
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Southside Irish here, representing! I grew up in Englewood and Beverly.
g
Are there any people helping this family? Is there a law office helping them? Is there a way to donate?
Just Some Fuckhead
God dammit. Passed over again for a poseur like Tbogg. I hope John dies trying to beat his jenkem addiction.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@SiubhanDuinne: @satby: Geneva. About the last stop on the due west line of the Chicago-Northwestern.
SatanicPanic
@Cassidy: This. I half think every preceding generation is pissed off that millenials (and whoever is after them) are turning out so much better than the rest of us. Shit, at least us Gen X people have always admitted to being fuck-ups. And we’re not even as bad as the one before us!
PurpleGirl
At 9-ish I was walking to the Library and school by myself — a walk of about 6 blocks for the Library and 4 blocks for school. By 12 I was taking the bus into Manhattan to go to a different Library and starting to go to museums by myself.
ETA: Granted this was the early 1960s but it never seemed strange to me and I had no problems going to museums by myself. No museum staff ever questioned me about being alone. I have no idea what would happen now, though.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@SatanicPanic: The world changes. It always does and the Four Yorkshiremen alway exist.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@PurpleGirl: I used to walk into the court house law library and just look at the books. OTOH, a year or so later, my best friend and I started making broadswords and battleaxes out of discarded sheet metal and trying to decapitate one another with them.
PurpleGirl
@Joshua James: There was a period of time during the late 1980s and early 1990s when I saw a number of bus drivers have their children with them on the bus all day because of child care issues. I always felt sorry for the kids having to sit there all day. Sometimes the parent-driver would let them sit in the back of the bus or at other parts of the bus but mostly they had to sit down front where the parent-driver could see them.
KS in MA
@schrodinger’s cat:
You’d have to go back to before about 1980 to find a NYT Mag that was not giving the Onion a run for its money.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Wow, not even Cook County!
Mike J
Related to the ongoing what’s the matter with kids today, the Atlantic weighs in:Millennials’ Political Views Don’t Make Any Sense.”
Those views, while nonsensical, aren’t unique to millennials. I think it’s just a reflection of the grip the cult of the savvy have on political discourse.
OT: hed at Vox (I had forgotten Vox existed)
http://imgur.com/5nwQExe
John Revolta
@satby: Marquette Park! 67th and Lawndale!!
South Side!
South Side!!
Up in Here!!!
SiubhanDuinne
@PurpleGirl:
Freeloading kids, probably didn’t even pay a fare.
SatanicPanic
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I’m going to do the opposite from now on.
“In my day, we didn’t have to walk to school. We had magical ponies to fly us there along a river of chocolate lined with roses that bloomed every day of the year. And every day was sunny and school was only a half hour of us watching movies.”
Something like that.
Old Dan and Little Ann
I drive by a kid every morning before school whose mother drives him to the end of their driveway for his bus. He stands outside and she sits in her swank SUV.
Karen in GA
@WaterGirl: Thanks. We have a month to get ready while he’s on his antibiotic, so we’re getting him used to shorter walks, and we’ll start closing the door on his crate again and gradually leave him in there for longer and longer periods. I’m just paranoid that the confinement itself will stress him out and increase his heart rate — even though Iggy’s always been fine with relaxing and not doing much of anything if we’re relaxing and not doing much ourselves.
Iggy won’t trash talk the vet. He’s all talk after the fact, but when the shit’s really going down he’s just a fuzzy little wuss.
(And yeah, I’m not saying anything about this poor mother getting crucified for letting her kid go to the park. Because I just fucking can’t anymore with these fucking morons.)
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@SiubhanDuinne: Kane County. I was there through 6th grade and then CT. Following that, the ancestral homeland of WI. A 20+ year odyssey of travel ended with me being back in WI. The wife of a friend once told my ex that Wisconsin boys may be willing to travel and live all over the world, but we eventually want to come home. As far as my Illinois birth, I can only offer the response of Wellington after someone suggested that he was Irish because he was born there. He said, “Jesus was born in a stable, but that did not make him a horse.”
Bobby Thomson
@CTVoter: Razor blades in apples are an urban legend. There have been no confirmed cases of stranger poisoning of Halloween candy, ever. Parent poisoning is unfortunately another matter.
ruemara
I walked over to the neighbor’s house because I was supposed to invite them to the office potluck. On my way over, I thought, “in some parts of this country, I’d be taking my life into my hands as a black woman, wandering to the neighboring white person’s house to invite them to a party. Shit, it’s fucking CA, I still could be taking my life into my hands.” I hate this country for what it’s doing to itself and to me. You just don’t have the same type of life under this new form of Jim Crow.
Yeah, I said it.
Ruckus
@satby:
You mentioned statistics. If you think a lot of people don’t understand maths as well as maybe they should, try their understanding of statistics. Even decades ago when in college I tutored statistics and the number of people who actually understood maths but just couldn’t get statistics was amazing. So people who don’t understand statistics at all usually have a bit of a problem understanding relative risk. They understand fear, which is why conservatives use it. They understand abduction because it sounds (and is) horrible. Making the connection of relative risk? Not gonna happen. Especially if the fear is all they hear about.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Great line, never came across it! Couldn’t we have done with some variation during the whole endless Obama Birth Certificate nonsense?
BretH
Does this woman really have no other options but to take her kid with her to McDonalds where she hangs out (alone) or drop her off (again alone) at a nearby park? No friends, neighbors, family who could help out – maybe some sort of reciprocal arrangement? No low or no-cost local/county summer programs available?
I believe children should be given freedom to explore and learn on their own, but that doesn’t mean leaving them completely to their own devices because we have to work. Occasionally, sure, but not every day.
So yes, this woman I am sure faces all sorts of pressures, but I still believe she has not taken enough responsibility to have alternate plans in place for her daughter.
SiubhanDuinne
@Old Dan and Little Ann:
That might make a funny scene in a movie.
Naaaah. Too over-the-top.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@ruemara: Most of us talking about how things were perfectly safe and lovely as kids are white as fuck. Oddly, I would guess that the vast majority of people who are freaking out about their kids’ safety now are also white.
Different countries. When I arrived at college, the first person I ran into was was the most stunningly preppy person I have ever met. A black guy from Chicago – his parents had paid god knows what to have sent him to a boarding school while they worked in the Chicago post office to pay for it. they then sent him to a private LAC. He almost immediately got me into the most amazing amount of trouble imaginable. Now on FB, I see him, bald as an 8-ball, but still posting Chicago House Music. My point being, some of us are trying to listen and actually hear. We might not be good at it, but we are trying.
PurpleGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: LOL. (By the time I was riding the bus and taking the subway I was taller than the fare box and had to pay a fare. And in those days the drivers still made change and made sure the kids paid.)
gelfling545
By the time I was 10 I was babysitting other people’s kids (25¢ an hour !). Most kids in that age range can handle things just fine if they’ve been given appropriate safety instructions & prohibitions. We walked everywhere alone or with friends because who the hell was going to drive us? Our one family car went to work with Dad.
gwangung
Are you so bereft of simple, straight line extrapolation to see that her likely friends could be in the exact same boat, with similar jobs?
And…local or county programs? BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH.
Calouste
Of course, if she were white (and male) and left a gun lying around that the kid killed herself with, it would have been called an accident and the parent wouldn’t even have to visit the police, let alone actually being charged with anything.
CONGRATULATIONS!
I feel so bad for the poor kids. They’re not going to be able to do anything for themselves.
Now, granted my parents divorced so the lack of parental attention wasn’t really something I had much of a choice about. But by the time I was ten I could start fires, cook, use a knife safely, use an axe safely, shoot a gun safely, and wander for miles in Southern California scrubland daily without worry. You saw somebody coming you hid. Gotta be pretty fucking stupid to get caught in scrub.
I didn’t know it at the time but goddamn was I ever lucky. I never dreamed there would be a time when kids couldn’t be out of sight of their parents. That’s just wrong.
Benny
Oh yeah, when I was kid we ran around unsupervised all day — in the streets, in the woods… We used to climb all over an abandoned water tower that was at least 3 stories high and on the verge of collapse… My parents let me wander around Times Square by myself at 10, the NY World’s Fair by myself when I was 11… We also played with lawn darts and rode in the back seat of convertibles with no seat belts…
There’s a reason responsible parents don’t allow their children to do things like that any more.
Rafael
I am living in Korea now and the the amount of independence kids here get still freaks me out a little bit. I walked to school by myself right around the time I got to 2nd or 3rd grade so it shouldn’t be so strange. But I got so used to seeing children with an adult present at all times that seeing kids as young as 9 or so walking around by themselves is still a strange sight. Kids here take the bus by themselves, go to the mall by themselves and travel the city in their bikes at much earlier ages than I’ve seen back in the states.
Anne Laurie
@Cassidy:
Oh, the kids are fine. It’s the adults that worry me — the ones who insisted on turning this into a police matter are either paranoid or venal, or most likely a toxic mixture of the two.
tokyo expat
I grew up in NY on the CT border, child of the ’70s. Was out of the house all day and my parents probably only had a vague idea where my brother and I were. We’d get on our bikes and go and we’d go home around the time we thought we should. It was definitely a different time then.
@Rafael: I’m in Japan. There is a lot of freedom here, too, from a young age. I eventually got used to it. My oldest started attending a private school from 7th grade (age 12) and crosses Tokyo to go to school. All children walk to elementary school.
But going back to the woman in South Carolina, here’s the difference: there are public day care facilities here. They are crowded and people can end up on waiting lists, but the government is working on increasing their number. My youngest’s public kindergarten offered after school care (2pm to 6pm), so parents who were unable to get into the public daycare had this option as well. In elementary school there is after school care, but it only goes to third grade. From fourth grade onward (age 9 like this woman’s child), children are considered old enough to be home by themselves or to be out by themselves. Again, it’s a completely different world. Overall, I’m glad my boys have been raised here.
edited backs to bikes. Damn autocorrect.
Ruckus
@Rafael:
I remember seeing, in the 70s, in Copenhagen, across from an elementary school, in a chemist’s shop(what we call a drug store) window a full frontal nude Channel #5 poster. We wouldn’t allow that today, let alone in the 70s. We are a nation full of prudes, god botherers, puritans, conservatives, whatever you want to call them, who have a fear that somewhere, someone must be having more fun than them(because their lives suck) and that just can not be allowed. And that fear has been mainstreamed. It’s a need to control everyone and everything around them, IOW to Stepford everyone. Why that was taken as a documentary is beyond me.
YellowJournalism
@BretH: No. Just stop. It is more than entirely reasonable that this woman doesn’t have support or reliable child care. I worked in child care for a time, and it is not only expensive but it’s very hard to find openings during the summer for shool-age (6-12 years) children. Those spots are not only expensive but they fill up fast, even at centres with bad reputations. She scheduled her work hours around the girl’s school hours for the majority of he year, I bet.
I’ve also been in her position where you don’t know what the hell you’re going to do with a sick hold because you’ve taken off too much work, your spouse has used up his/her days, and your friends and relatives can’t leave work, either. Daycares do not take sick children, as it is a very big risk to the other kids. I’ve had to tell tearful parents that there was no choice but for them to find someone, anyone to come get their child. I’ve seen parents lose jobs because their child had bad luck and got strep, chicken pox, and ear infections all in a row. Then they couldn’t pay for daycare…so then they get labelled a leaches on the system or takin welfare or applying for subsidies that barely help make a dent. And the daycare costs go up, not because the daycare is greedy but because they have people to pay and costs are going up for rent, power, and food.
So really sit and think about a single mom who could not find care that she could trust. Someone who had friends and family who were either not around or unable to take time off so she could work instead of them. Someone who assumed that at nine, a child would be okay in a busy public park as maybe she had been in the past. (And the stats for hold abduction from public parks by a stranger are low btw.)
I hate what we are doing to our kids. I hate that if I run into the house to grab my purse after buckling up my sons, some busybody asshole might take a picture and call the cops. When I’ve seen children who are truly abused or neglected slip through the system even after the abuse is reported and recorded. Fuck it.
This puts me in such a bad mood.
YellowJournalism
If that long rant ends up as a double post, I’m sorry. FYWP and my mobile device
Joel
Child care is scarce and extraordinarily expensive. The government has almost no subsidy for it, either.
moderateindy
@satby: In the early 70’s my cousin use to take the train from the western burbs into Chicago by himself for violin lessons at Symphony Hall at the age of six.
What the whole affair reminds me of is how ridiculously paranoid we have become as a society, which leads to situations like this…. Currently a very affluent suburb of Chicago near me is debating sticking video cameras all over certain subdivisions. It is not part of a gated community in the same suburb, (which actually has cameras everywhere) but there have been exactly 6 crimes committed in this area in the last 5 years, and all but one have been solved. Yet people are willing to be monitored 24/7 in a place that crime is nearly non-existent.
We as a society won’t only not resist a total surveillance state, we will lurch willingly towards it; until, like the frog in the slowly warming water, it’ll be too fracking late to do anything about it.
sparrow
This makes me not want to have kids, or at least not in the US. In Greece, where we spend a lot of time, you see kids alone EVERYWHERE, usually in little groups, but not always. Our next door neighbor’s kid here in Halki goes out all the time to god knows where on his little motor bike, and he’s probably 12. Last I checked, nothing very much was happening to these kids except that they were living fuller lives.
My husband (Greek) has long noted that the kids that show up in his college courses in the US, at 18-20 years old, have the maturity of 12-14 year olds in Greece. He finds it alarming, and frankly, I’m starting to agree. All this leads to is delayed adulthood, and I disagree that the kids are alright — I’m tired of teaching 20 year old children, who don’t have the moral compunction not to cheat, endlessly whine, skip class, and otherwise close their minds to higher education as hard as they can while spending mom & dad’s money to party. I’m not saying my generation was better, with the paranoid helicopter parenting style already in full swing in the 80s, but my parents generation sure didn’t treat their college educations like that.
A nation of sheltered child-adults who are used to constant surveillance is not going to be a pretty thing.
Fred
When I was a kid (1959 and on) I had to be in school on time. That is the only restriction I can recall. When school let out my friends and I did what we pleased. We went home when it got dark because it was too dark outside and besides who would want to miss “The Flintstones” or whatever tripe was being dished out on the tube.
My childhood was wonderfully wasted on playing in the woods, riding my bike in the streets and doing all manner of life threatening nonsense. All my friends did the same and nobody I knew suffered worse than minor gashes and stitches. Step on a nail through your sneaker? Get a tetanus shot and you’re back in business.
The worst thing that “happened” to me? My best friend Billy, used to swipe his brother’s Winstons and so I started smoking at 7 or 8. Finally stopped twenty years ago. Ain’t dead yet.
As to the story: The little girl and mother in question are of the darker complexion and it is South Carolina. I lived in SC for a short time. I wouldn’t go back. Ever. ‘Nuff said.
Betsy
@BretH: Who the fuck are you?
Betsy
@BretH: and why aren’t you child-care-shaming the father?
Cassidy
@Anne Laurie: That was more about the commentary that starts with “kids today….” and is all over social media and this comments section.
The parents? It’s suburbia.
kd bart
My parents would’ve been arrested in the 70s and we didn’t have cellphones.
HeartlandLiberal
I grew up in the fifties in a semi-rural semi-suburban area north of Birmingham, Alabama.
From the age of eight on I was allowed to hike five miles down the four lane highway, through town, and over some hills to my best friend’s house. We are talking age of eight, here, boys and girls. In fact, one of the ways I made pocket change was picking up soft drink bottles along the roadside on the way, and cashing them in for the deposit at a filling station halfway between my house and my friend’s house. (Any of you remember how once upon a time all soft drink bottles were heavy glass, had a deposit, were returned and reused?)
Nothing was ever thought about me and my brothers walking about the same distance to the municipal swimming pool for a few hours swim. Without our parents hovering over us.
My brothers and I roamed the hills and woods within the mile surrounding our house and the few neighbors at will, scraping trails we could walk and even ride our bikes on through the forests all the way to the creek over the ridge to the next valley north of us, where we fished, caught tad poles, and engaged in contests climbing trees to see who could climb highest, then drop down to the ground by climbing out on a high limb and dropping from limb to limb to the ground.
I guess in retrospect I did not realize how abused and neglected and sadly independent and self confident and capable I was.
AJS
This shit drives me crazy. As a 49 year old father of 6 and 4 year olds I want them to be independent. Hell that is my job,to teach them how to fend for themselves when they are adults.
To think I can be arrested for letting my kids be kids is infuriating.
I just had this discussion with my parents. They swear we were supervised all of the time as children. Of course we left in the AM and came home for lunch and dinner in the summer. My parents had no idea where we were. And we were fine.
My purple bike with the cool banana seat was stolen at my school when I was in kindergarten. We lived 9/10 of a mile from the school. I road with my sisters and friends as long as the weather was good.
People need to get a grip.
WaterGirl
@AJS:
I nominate “People need to get a grip” or “Get a grip, people” as a rotating tag line.
JGabriel
Anne Laurie @ Top:
It’s not humanity I’m losing faith in; it’s Americans.
Joshua James
some of the anecdotes in this thread… it’s shocking… yeah, I get it, you ran around wild and nothing happened to you, so that must be how it is all over for everyone…
I never wore a seatbelt at all while I was a child, and nothing happened… does this mean we should repeal seatbelt laws, especially for kids?
How many of us (be honest) have driven an automobile while intoxicated, especially during our sordid college years, and NOTHING bad happened?
Come on, I know I’m not the only one… admit it.
so does that mean we should allow our kids to do the same, since it worked out for us?
How many women of the sixties smoked while pregnant (like my mother) and it worked out okay.
I mean, crikey, I do not care that you all fucked around as kids and it worked out…. how abut the kids for whom it doesn’t? Don’t we have scads of those in the news every week? I”m not simply talking about abductions (but again, I remind you there was an epidemic of this in the 70s) but also accidents… hit by a car for playing in the street, finding a parents firearm and shooting a friend, any number of things… come on…
We can teach our kids independence and responsibility, but just throwing them outside alone isn’t necessarily the responsible way to do it, even though that’s how our parents did it… our parents also smoked around us, drank and drove, and did a whole lot of things that we’ve now figured out are not so good (being beaten with a belt until you bleed? not to great parenting)… so please, stop with that, would ya?
A 5 or 6 year old does not have the tools to be responsible in enough cases, alone in public… same can be said for 7, 8 or 9… hell, even older… it’s subjective and individual.
and in any case, that’s not the issue with this woman, she clearly just had no other options if she wanted to work…
BretH
A few points.
1) Of those who speak of how they wandered all around when they were kids..(like me).. I would guess 90% or more of you were boys (like me).
2) Most of you were wandering around in your “neighborhood” – which I admit can be a VERY big area depending on where you lived. But it was your “place” and you had local knowledge of its ins and outs. This woman is taking her 9 year old girl with her to work – presumably far enough from home that she couldn’t just leave her there. It is NOT her neighborhood. She is not at home there, with local friends to hang out with. She is going to stand out – to busybodies obviously – and to others.
3) I questioned whether this woman had truly exhausted all resources possible – even ones which may be a challenge, or uncomfortable for her. It is one thing to be truly at your wit’s end with absolutely no other options, and it is another to take your kid with you to your work area because you didn’t think it was that bad, or felt uncomfortable reaching out to others for help, or whatever.
pseudonymous in nc
@Joshua James:
Except your other examples are a fuckload more dangerous than leaving kids of certain ages unsupervised in certain environments, given how the stranger-danger threat has been wildly exaggerated (especially compared to the risks from friends and family) from the outset.
So thanks for bringing that orange pie to the apple pie contest.
This is not about imposing the anecdotes of the 70s or whatever decade you choose.
It is about how any attempt to ease children into some kind of independence, no matter how trivial, is now treated as child endangerment, and how any notion that communities might collectively keep half an eye on the children in their vicinity now becomes a creepy cameraphone video and a call to 911 and CPS, and any notion that there’s social value in some kind of childcare that doesn’t cost more than a minimum wage is dismissed out of hand.
It’s learned helplessness.
Cassidy
And this has been exaggerated almost as much as stranger abductions.
Joshua James
@pseudonymous in nc:
Except I didn’t just reference stranger-danger, now, did I? I referenced a host of things that you ignored. Kids get hit by cars, hurt each other and themselves, etc…
What I pointed out, at the core, was that anecdotes are not data, and most folks pooh-poohing the idea that letting a young child play alone in a playground (and one out of her neighborhood, I might add) isn’t dangerous at all because they did it, and they’re fine, are using anecdotes.
anecdotes are not data.
And I am not condemning this woman, I think the problem is that she had no options, as as a society we owe it to our collective unity to find one…
Mnemosyne
@Joshua James:
Wait, a nine-year-old (fourth or fifth-grader) is now a “young child”? To me, a young child is a four or five-year-old.
And to add my own anecdata from the 1970s/1980s — yep, at 9 years old I was walking or biking around our (extremely safe) suburb by myself. Yes, me or one of my friends could have injured ourselves or even died while exploring the woods near my house but, strangely, we never did, and neither did any of the other kids who did the same thing.
And I’m sure BretH will be shocked and appalled to hear that I was a girl doing all of this.
Cassidy
Harumph….back when I was a kid we pogo sticked around the lava pit waving our machetes around and I turned out just fine. Kids are so weak and helpless these days without their pogo sticking and lava pits and machetes and their short shorts and loud music.
BretH
@Mnemosyne – please read point#2 I made, re: your (safe) suburban neighborhood.
Mnemosyne
@BretH:
North Augusta, SC, has a population of 21,348. The suburb I grew up in has a population of a little over … 20,000. So, no, I’m not really seeing the huge difference.
Mnemosyne
@Cassidy:
Dude, if we’re making you feel guilty about overprotecting your kids, just say so instead of pretending that we’re blaming the kids when we’re really blaming you, the overprotective parent.
Cassidy
@Mnemosyne: Nah. I’m just making fun of you people and your quaint, half-remembered anecdotes of freedom and independence. Honestly, the majority of you people are so emotionally stunted that you come to an anonymous online forum to get advice about what to buy. That’s some true independence you got going there.
BretH
@Mnemosyne I suppose you would have felt just as comfortable taking a cross-town bus to hang out for hours in a completely different neighborhood – a Black neighborhood if you’re White, or a White neighborhood if you’re a person of color?
WaterGirl
I have to make a 15-minute stop at a client’s office in a few minutes, and I was just thinking maybe I would take my dog Tucker with me so we could stop at the park for a nice walk on the way home. It’s perfect weather – 68 degrees and party cloudy.
As soon as I had that thought, I could picture some “helpful” person taking a photo of “oh my god, a dog locked in the car in July!” and my being arrested 15 minutes later when I came out to the car. Or worse, my dog being taken away from me. It was kind of an eye-opening moment.
Cassidy
@WaterGirl: Yeah. I used to make quick stops into the grocery store all the time and leave the kids in the car with it and the AC/ heat running. They know the routine: lock the door when I get out and don’t unlock it until I knock in the window. I don’t do that anymore.
Fair Economist
@BretH:
Where she left her daughter is safer than child care. In public, multiple other children, multiple unconnected strangers – all things that make you safer.
Abduction and child abuse by relatives and child care workers are real and substantial dangers. Abduction or child abuse by strangers in a busy public park? I’ve never heard of it, and it would have been national news. Abduction of child abuse by relatives and caretakers is literally 2,000 times as likely as stranger abductions, and stranger abductions overwhelmingly occur when there’s nobody around to report it.
Mnemosyne
@BretH:
Ah, now we get to the heart of your objection — a Black girl was hanging out in a White neighborhood park, and That Cannot Be Allowed. Let’s send the mom to jail for being uppity and thinking that her Black child had just as much right to be in a public park as any White child.
Mnemosyne
@Cassidy:
And you stopped doing that because you realized that you were a horribly irresponsible parent who could have KILLED YOUR CHILD AT ANY MOMENT! Right?
Really, I can’t believe you did something that dangerous. Child Protective Services should have arrested you and taken your kids away, pronto, since you’re obviously completely irresponsible and incapable of caring for a child.
WaterGirl
@Mnemosyne: Seriously?
Helenaholiday
Well, my mom would never have done such a thing. When we needed supervision, she just sent us to our grandparents. Of course, Grandpa being a big ol pedophile and Grandma being a drunk, well, ok. Maybe that wasn’t the best solution.
ItAintEazy
@WaterGirl: Seriously? Does the word “SARCASM” need to be put up in neon letters?
Riley's Enabler
Single working mom of a 10 year old here. This summer marks his FIRST foray to the local subdivision park on his bike without me. Would I let him stay there all day? No, but he can go for a couple of hours alone without a cell phone.
Daycare in my city is expensive but I have no other options (no family close, and I have to work). Thankfully I have the ability to keep him in a decent daycare, but I’m worried about the year he turns 12. They don’t take kids older than 12 and the idea of leaving him home alone for an 8-9 hour stretch wakes me up at night. I’ve checked, and currently there are no local day-long programs for kids over 12. Guess I shouldn’t plan on sending him to the park (that was snark).
My heart breaks for the mom who had no other choice. Daycare options in this country for low-income and single parents are crap. We need to look at how we are caring for our kids.
Cassidy
@Mnemosyne: I’m sorry. I just can’t take anyone seriously who needs a group consensus from a bunch of anonymous people before she decides which person’s phone to answer.
Elie
What I am most concerned about is that all this excessive fear, overreaction and snooping will just result in generations of children without any self confidence out in the world. Children need to play by themselves and have some independence to foster a complete sense of themselves and develop judgment about the world. We have ourselves and the children afraid 24/7. Is it not a wonder that the right wing frightdeology dominates our brains — everything is a threat so you have to be in attack and fight mode always. We do not trust anything anymore — most of all ourselves. Its horrible that we will pass this on to our children …
Mnemosyne
@Cassidy:
Yes, yes, we all know — you’re a rough, tough, manly man who never, ever stops to ask for advice before he does anything. You know, like when you were asking people for advice about whether you should go for the police job or the firefighting job.
But those were important employment questions, right? Because, like, those are manly, important jobs that are much more important than anyone else’s employment.
JoyfulA
@BretH: I wandered all around from age 7 as a GIRL!
Jadedhaven
Reading through the comments at the original news link, I found one by local resident who apparently knows the area;
A truly concerned bystander at the park would have contacted the mother directly through the child’s cellphone to make sure everything was kosher, then offer to keep an eye out on the girl that day. Shared her cooler full of snacks and juice boxes like all good mom’s do.
Calling the police was highly inappropriate and not very neighborly. If this woman was so concerned about that child’s safety, she should have taken her under her protective wing instead of whistling up the nanny-state government to intervene in an unfortunate private matter.
Cassidy
@Mnemosyne: I think a career change is a little different than picking another cubicle, but you seem pretty insulated, so I can see how that might be equivalent to you.