(Scott Meyer’s website)
Netroots Nation 2015 will be in Phoenix:
… [L]et us tell you why we are going to Phoenix. We are going there because that’s where our voices and presence are needed right now. We’re going there because that’s where organizing power is needed right now. We’re going there because that’s where we can have the greatest impact and affect the greatest change. We as a community need to go there because we need to join those on the ground who are fighting this fight everyday…
However, founder Markos “Kos” Moulitas will neither assist nor attend:
… I made very clear in the wake of Arizona’s passage of SB 1070 that I would not be setting foot in the state, nor spending a dime in it until the law was revoked. The law, however gutted by the courts, remains on the books, as does systemic harassment of Latinos, so my pledge still stands…
I doubt the conference would decide to host the event in, say, Apartheid South Africa, in order to “take the fight to the enemy”. If you think that analogy is absurd, it is, but only in terms of degree, not intent in the county that has consistently elected Sheriff Joe Arpaio since 1992. But if you want a less bombastic analogy, look to labor: Netroots Nation refuses to hold events in cities without union hotel and conference facilities. They’re not “taking the fight” to non-unionized locations because we, as a movement, stand for the right of people to organize and we don’t reward those places that deny those rights. It’s the right call. Also, would the conference have been happy to stay in Arizona had Gov. Jan Brewer signed the virulently anti-gay SB 1062 earlier this year? Hard to see that happening.
Latinos deserve that same kind of respect…
Dave Weigel, at Slate, adds some context:
… In the short history of blogging and online activism, this is a BFD. Moulitsas’ blog was the Petri dish for countless writers and campaigners; Moulitsas himself was an accidental icon of the 2004-2008 period when the press woke up to the “netroots”…
By focusing on one blog post, the blogfather’s critics have ignored his actual influence. You know Vox, the much-discussed explanatory news site? That’s part of Vox Media, which grew out of SportsBlogs (now SBNation), co-founded by … Markos Moulitsas. This is a major figure in the online left, and he’s boycotting Arizona (with the hope of reunion for 2016’s anniversary conference)…
To be fair, it’s not unreasonable to argue that there are plenty of dedicated activists in Arizona, and that we shouldn’t abandon those on the front line just to establish a spurious image of purity. And I’ve seen a few comments, at Slate and elsewhere, that this may (also) be a Jedi mind trick by Moulitsas — “Look! The DFHs, as represented by premier Moonbat-Blogger Kos, will no longer be the face of Netroots Nation! Next year they’ll be… respectable!”
***********
Apart from that, what’s on the agenda for the start of another week?
Amir Khalid
I was under the impression that high-profile political races in America got turned into reality TV years ago.
NotMax
Monday will be third day of flash flood watch as stormy weather from the the remnants of Tropical Storm Wali are still moving through the state.
raven
@NotMax: Crappy surf report too!
OzarkHillbilly
Nor is it unreasonable to ask how one is supporting your like minded friends by patronizing the establishments of their opponents. I don’t shop at Wally World, even if it means I have to drive 30-40 miles more and wait a week to do it. Does that mean I have abandoned all the overworked and underpaid employees of Wal-Mart? Just because I refuse to put a few more nickels and dimes in the overstuffed pockets of the Walton family?
OzarkHillbilly
Or to put it another way, Ain’t America great? Where one can be seen to be giving high minded and eloquent support for all those poor poor little brown people toiling away at slave wages and holding down 2 or 3 such jobs all while staying in $300 a night hotel rooms and eating $150 meals and padding the profit lines of their corporate overlords?
Damn! Purity AND comfort! Doesn’t get any better than that!
VidaLoca
“Organizing power”? A bunch of people fly in from out of town for a 4-day conference and at the end they fly home again. But they’re talking about their “voices”, their “presence” their “organizing power”?
Somebody is taking themselves way too seriously.
Baud
And then 2009 came around and GOS threw it all away.
(And, FWIW, their front pagers have been doing some really good work lately.)
Ramalama
Markos is the whole reason why I’d go if I ever could to one of them thar conventions. I toy with the idea every year. But no Markos? And for a good reason? I’m not even dreaming about it. Plus, Arizona? Such a weird state.
raven
Mika knows who shot down the plane and wants this shiftless president to get off his ass and attack Russia!
Baud
@raven:
So she’s planning to enlist?
raven
@Baud: And Joe, oh boy, “Reagan would have. . .”
SuperHrefna
I actually agree with Kos here – I think they are making a huge mistake taking the conference to Arizona. Shunning is effective, shunning has power. By all means organize in Arizona, just do it without bringing them convention dollars. It’s the business owners who suffer from the shunning who can put pressure on the Arizona government to be more respectable.
Baud
@raven:
Don’t you remember the great Soviet-American War after the downing of KAL 007?
SuperHrefna
@Baud: what do you think would happen if we locked Putin and Mika in an elevator together?
Baud
@SuperHrefna:
Need more information. Is Putin wearing a shirt?
Schlemizel
@raven:
SOmeone needs to ask l’il Joeys how St. Ronnie responded when he got 250 Marines blown all to hell in Lebanon.
EDIT: @Baud:
An even better comparison, thanks!
Baud
@Schlemizel:
We invaded Grenada two days later.
SuperHrefna
@Baud: yes, but no tie.
BruceFromOhio
Never had a reason to go to Arizona. Still don’t.
Kos is (and was) the friggin’ bomb, no matter what happened to DK. The success of SB readily demonstrates one can be successful in business without being a two-bit soulless ratfuck criminal (See Brothers, Koch; see also Family, Walton), while maintaining principles of human decency.
@Baud, @Schlemizel: These. War mongers gonna war monger, need to STFU and let cooler heads prevail. Simpering idiocy already killed enough innocents.
Mike E
@SuperHrefna: Pooty wouldn’t stand a chance.
BruinKid
I know Markos. I post regularly on DailyKos under the same handle. And this ain’t no Jedi mind trick.
Schlemizel
@Baud:
So we should drop a few SF into the Azores this morning?
Tommy
I am all for Markos here. Good for him. I don’t always agree with him. Heck I got run off that site cause I used the “n” word not as a slur, but to note something.* Honestly I do not know what Netroots Nation is without Daily Kos behind it. I might be dumb saying that, but pretty sure I am not.
*Clearly a slur and terrible, long story.
Tommy
@SuperHrefna: Exactly. There are many other places you could go. I suggested my home town of St. Louis. We got union labor here for the convention. We can handle the traffic and then some. “Cheap” as convention cities go. But AZ, you got to be kidding me to think you are a serious liberal group.
Sherparick
I am afraid that Kos’s point is well taken. Netroots 2015 will be in Phoenix and spending lots of money in Phoenix and the greed heads who keep Joe Arapio in power will be collecting that money. When the anti-Hispanic policies in Arixona start costing these guys money, then the policies will start changing.
Baud
I’d be curious what the actual activists on the ground in Arizona think of this decision.
Kay
That wasn’t my impression. I think it was a front-burner issue within the context of the whole thing. Every speaker and panel I heard mentioned it, with the exception of “Mothers of Murdered Children” which was exclusively Detroit people. I think 3 of the 4 people who introduced Reverend Barber talked about immigration. One of the speakers was one of the Biden hecklers and one of the speakers was Chuck Schumer. I think Schumer came specifically to talk about immigration, because he’s not really a natural fit introducing a speech by Barber, a speech and gathering sponsored by a teachers union.
I’d say the two overall themes were immigration and organizing, with movements like Fight for Fifteen and Moral Monday as examples of what I mean by “organizing”. Maybe not officially announced as themes on a program, but that was my sense of what the conference was really “about”.
Ultraviolet Thunder
Had a nice 3 day weekend after returning from Germany late THursday. Mon – Tues: Indianapolis/Terre Haute. Weds-Fri: Tulsa. Weekend = ????. IOW business as usual.
Have a great week everyone.
Iowa Old Lady
Going to the gym and then taking Mr IOL for a colonoscopy. Then the rest of the day should look better.
Kay
I’ve only been to two NN, but I have to say, they’re really well run. Everything works. It’s nice because the stereotypical rap on Lefties is they supposedly can’t plan a two car parade, herding cats, all that. NN as an organization and big operation just runs really well, although obviously they have disagreements on issues, etc.
It’s better organized for attendees than the Democratic National Convention, and certainly better than a state convention. They really do a very good job.
Marc
Maybe, but Kos’s analogies to union labor and gay rights are good ones. If they wouldn’t reward cities that don’t respect those rights, why reward a state that demonizes immigrants?
You can organize a state without rewarding them with a major conference and all the tourist dollars it brings in.
debbie
@Baud:
Such a skeptic. Don’t you remember how his golden words brought down that wall and ended Communism everywhere?
Iowa Old Lady
@Marc: Yeah, I’ve had to think about it, but I believe taking NN to Arizona is a mistake.
Kay
@Marc:
I don’t think they should be surprised by it, either. Kos writes on immigration constantly. It’s what he chooses to write about. He does more on immigration than any other “general” blogger I can think of, and he writes as an advocate, he’s pushing an issue, which he doesn’t hide.
magurakurin
@Baud:
Yes, DKOS is much, much better again. I read stuff there everyday. There was an interesting post up about redesigning suburban streets for walking and biking. That’s was like the old KOS. But the comments are still fucked up and bullshit. Stay away from that, choose the interesting diaries, some decent leads there.
And who gives a shit about Netroots Nation? Half those fuckers won’t vote in a real election anyway. To paraphrase Stalin, how many electoral votes does Netroots Nation have?
Botsplainer
@SuperHrefna:
Genital chafing from overuse.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Amir Khalid: I think that was Scott Meyer’s point. He’s skewering the perception that there’s still something serious and dignified about the whole affair for candidates or for us as a people.
Cervantes
@OzarkHillbilly:
@OzarkHillbilly:
Thanks.
Cervantes
@SuperHrefna: Russia would notice his absence. Scarborough might not notice hers.
OzarkHillbilly
I’ll bet Cole is strutting as proudly as a rooster right now: Cornhole champions being decided in West Virginia
Cervantes
@Iowa Old Lady: Or one could say that, currently, taking anything valuable to Arizona is a mistake, progressive conferences included.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@magurakurin: The comments are often uninteresting, uninsightful. Really, really depends who’s in the comments that day and whether the comments get trolled. dkos is a site where the less comments on a post, the better chance of the comments being any good. But Kos has booted a bunch of people off in just the last three months, people who pulled the whole “you’ll miss me when I’m gone” flounce.
I think Kos is right. I think there was a lot of energy about Michigan, hey, we’re here and effecting change. Yeah, but where is change needed next, and while young activists are excited about AZ, there are some reasons it’s not a big target state. Also, what about NC? And both NC and AZ are looking for young volunteers to come in and do real work of organizing, signing people up to vote. Whereas Netroots is a convention, with all that entails, not an organizing project.
If Kos is crazy like a fox about anything it’s that immigration is a subject that brings Democrats together, especially when we talk about it eloquently, when we speak the truth about how immigration and how broken immigration structures actually impact the economy, taxes, and wages. By the same token, it’s an issue that tears the GOP apart, pits blackshirts and nativists against unscrupulous business concerns who bankroll the whole shindig. It’s ugly.
Cervantes
@Kay:
After Obama’s two national campaigns, you’d think that stereotypical rap would be a little less stereotypically rappy by now.
OzarkHillbilly
Raven, JPL, all you other east Georgia-ites, do you know where your Republican was and what he was doing shortly before noon Saturday?
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@OzarkHillbilly:
Yeah, this shit kills me. I get angry about hotel workers, especially the room cleaners. I used to have a lot of contact with them in my job. Actually, a union, if it works, is really good because small proprietors, at least in a shitty labor law state like Florida, can and do exploit them and steal their wages. That’s why I’m in the habit of leaving cash tips for hotel staff when I travel. I know whatever I paid at the desk ain’t making it to teir pocket.
The thing is, the unions stay at “unionized” hotels where the union in question was on strike! What message does that send? Unions seem to want to have everything as nice as management–fuck management–and the unionization angle is an excuse. Now in a few cases unions actually own hotels in some areas. And my union has a com-symp leader who had us stay in a dormitory for a training to save money, which I thought was way better and I slept a lot damn better.
Although I suppose it has to be some sort of fun for the young activists who pile into a car to go to these conferences because when I was in my salad days six of us slept in one Hyatt suite, including on the floor. The hotel didn’t say boo.
But yeah, Ozark, the fancy hotel chain thing has never sat well with me but I don’t know what the answer is. And SEIU is not part of AFL-CIO so that kind of blows much of a coordinated strategy on the national level. Meh.
rikyrah
Arizona in summer?
Um…yuck.
Iowa Old Lady
One of the things I like that DK does before NN is remind readers to tip the cleaning staff in the hotel.
Kay
@Cervantes:
Right, good point, but NN is sometimes portrayed (wrongly, I think, based on my two visits) as “bloggers in pajamas” or whatever.
Every single person who asked a question at the voting rights forum had some actual, physical, “on the ground” involvement with voting rights. I think the portrayal of them as “not real activists” is inaccurate. I don’t know what “real” activists are if they aren’t real :)
Suzanne
I am biased, obviously, living here in one of Phoenix’s inner suburbs, but I just want to note that like many metro areas, urban Phoenix is, itself, pretty darn liberal. They elected a very progressive mayor, and the Congressional delegation leans D, even though Phoenix metro is split into like 6 districts. And SB1070 was totally gutted. Only then did activists stand down. Whether or not it is still on the books, it is ineffectual, and activists, including many people I volunteer with, busted their asses to make it so. I actually think it is a good thing to spread the progressive gospel far and wide, to make the presence known. That is how it gets normalized.
OzarkHillbilly
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): I don’t know anybody who complains as much about unions as a union member does. Any guess where the Carpenters put their training academy? Las Vegas. Why? My guess would be the central location and cheap land.
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
But that’s true of any convention. They stay at hotels and eat meals. Based on my two visits. the reason the hotels are not low price motel chains is because 1. they are in cities and 2. they only use hotels with union labor.
The same is true of the Democrats national convention and the Ohio state convention. They stay at union hotels and eat meals :)
I guess you could have a house party, but that would be a really big party.
ChaseBears
Shouldn’t it possible to publish a 2015 NN Guide to Not Giving Money to Shitheads, pointing out which businesses aren’t run by assholes?
ChaseBears
Shouldn’t it possible to publish a 2015 NN Guide to Not Giving Money to Shitheads, pointing out which businesses aren’t run by assholes?
JPL
@OzarkHillbilly: haha.. I’d love to think my rep is a closet pantie sniffer.
Schlemizel
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
One of Nixon’s unrecognized ‘accomplishments’ was ripping unions apart from each other. He used several means to separate the Teamsters from the main body (bribery and promises to not prosecute as well as feeding the hate of the ‘pro-war all-American’ faction) and manged to start several other cracks. It was really the beginning of the end for unions when they no longer thought about the larger effort but only their local ones. St. Ronnie played they like a fiddle with an excellent PR campaign and in falling for the BS unions surrendered the power they once had. They now routinely ignore the concerns of other unions and fail to support them when needed. That works in the favor of the 1% and they are too self-centered to recognize the damage they are doing to themselves.
FlipYrWhig
I don’t understand how a conference that has “netroots” in its name would ever not be considered a wild-eyed bloggers’ convention. For better or for worse, the medium is antithetical to the kind of “respectability” the media deigns to confer. “Respectable” means the Brookings Institution, the Weekly Standard, even Focus on the Family. If you write with passion and don’t have a title, an office, a press release, or a paper publication, you’re never going to be one of Those.
Kay
The local Republican big-shots are mad about going to Cleveland for their convention. I have no idea where they get off with this snobbiness, living where we do, but they’re all cranky about it, which makes me laugh. I think they think of it as a “Democrat city”.
They’re all disgruntled and out of sorts, the Chamber of Commerce types.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: I wonder how many union hotels there are in Phoenix? My point was to put one’s money where one’s mouth was. Got no problem with spending that money in Detroit. Phoenix? Might as well be in Dallas.
Botsplainer
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
Does any union honor any other union’s strike anymore? I always thought that the main purpose behind the group affiliations was to create a firewall of economic shutdown of businesses which were being struck.
These days, deliveries occur straight through the picket line.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@OzarkHillbilly: It’s easy to get a flight to Vegas from anywhere in the country. I’m sure that’s why.
My union had a convention in Vegas several years back and probably saved a ton on air fare but got very much criticized for it anyway. Can’t win for losing.
OzarkHillbilly
@Schlemizel:
We spend more time fighting with each other trying to grab whatever we can of a shrinking pie than we ever even think about telling the AGC (Association of General Contractors) where to go and what to do when they get there.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Kay: Maybe Cleveland can bulldoze some more blocks just to make them feel at home.
Please tell me Cleveland is done bulldozing whole city blocks, btw. When I was there–and granted this was some time ago–it was more depressing than DC (again, at the time). The place looked wrecked.
What are they fretting about anyway? They stopped the ‘orrible streetcar project. No nice urban amenities to make their blood boil.
OzarkHillbilly
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): It’s even easier to get a flight from anywhere to Atlanta. Don’t wash, won’t wear. Let’s just say they aren’t there on an all expenses paid trip only for the training.
Suffern ACE
@Kay: I assume that compared to Dayton and Akron, Toledo is a garden oasis?
Karen in GA
I was surprised to learn they were holding it in Arizona. Did the planners not anticipate that they’d be pissing off a good number of people?
@rikyrah: This too. Arizona in the summer?
I wonder if the organizers are publicly defending the decision, but privately kicking themselves.
Face
I didn’t even know there could be a NN without DK (and Markos) involved. Seriously, I thought they ran the show.
OzarkHillbilly
@Botsplainer: Yes… and no. Thanx to Ronny’s Rules, they can now set up 2 gates to all construction sites, one for union contractors and one for non-union contractors. Any picketing of non-union contractors has to be done on the non-union contractors entrance, thus there is no “crossing of picket lines”. I actually shut down a job site once by refusing to cross anyway (Ironworkers were picketing). Stirred up one hell of a mess, all kinds of BA’s coming down and talking to supers and each other etc etc, for all of 3 days. Then we all had to go back to work or our unions would face a “failure to perform” law suit.
Suzanne
@ChaseBears: Phoenix has a very active LocalFirst organization, filled with a lot of activists who are not assholes.
It’s worth remembering that it’s really the assholes in Mesa and Scottsdale and some of the other suburbs who keep electing Arpaio. The Phoenix area is actually quite segregated politically. FFS, some of the Phoenix suburbs are in Grijalva’s district, and he’s the co-chair of the progressive caucus. Downtown, where the convention will be held, is quite a liberal area.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@OzarkHillbilly: Atlanta airport hotel convention? I don’t know what the prices are like but, hey, they have some big unions in that city. (Trying to stay in downtown Atlanta is pricey, gotta say.)
I don’t know how it would pencil out but the union membership growth right now is in the Southeast, so why not Atlanta? ‘Course I might be biased since I can easily take a day bus to get there and Atlanta does not want for good food and shit to do. (It would be more fun for me than Vegas, that’s for damn sure. Which kind of belies the whole argument here, heh.)
ETA: I can take a UNION bus there. Why union hotels but no ban on non union air carriers? Amtrak and the ‘Hound are unionized, many airports are TWU and of course many airlines are unionized.
Suzanne
@rikyrah: Yeah, that, to me, is the biggest drawback. It sucks here right now. I avoid leaving the house in daylight hours.
OTOH, it proves that climate change is real.
beltane
I’m with Markos on this one.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Suffern ACE: Somebody said Toledo?
Cervantes
@Kay:
The more their opponents see them that way the better, I suppose one could argue.
Cervantes
@Iowa Old Lady:
Yes, and for those who can’t afford to leave a large tip: just talk to these workers! — they are not invisible, they are human beings with full lives of their own, and they deserve not merely eye-contact but respect.
Kay
@OzarkHillbilly:
I tend to agree with Markos, but it gets tricky. If it’s “union only” then Democrats can never go into the south, and they do, they go into the south. One of the things I really like about NN is how big a role labor plays at the convention. I think it goes against the “dudebro” theme that is sometimes attributed to online activists. There is labor everywhere at NN.
I actually read Kos, and this is armchair psychology, but I think he is honestly committed to immigration and civil rights for Latinos, and so the disregard for his concerns is the real problem here. He has made jokes about how he writes about immigration and Latino issues (on the site, he has made these jokes, I don’t know him) and those posts don’t get many comments. He actually has used his immigration advocacy as an example of someone who advocates for an issue although that issue might not be “front burner” or broadly popular on the site.
I’m sympathetic to him because it comes from a good place.
OzarkHillbilly
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
You and me both. Vegas is the last place in the world I want to go to.
Cervantes
@Kay:
Another “stereotypical rap,” and this one should have been choked at birth.
Armadillo
@Baud:
What does
refer to?
I honestly don’t know. Been reading DKos for as long as I can remember. Don’t know or can’t recall (or suppressed) this information.
Cervantes
@Suzanne:
It may also suggest that people shouldn’t build cities, or suburbs, in deserts.
Kay
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
They want to go to North Carolina because there’s golfing :) Asheville, I believe.
We’re not talking about gritty activist-types here. This week I’m going to tell them they’re all public employees (the Republicans I talk to are all public employees) and Rand Paul hates them anyway because they’re blood-sucking stateists.
piratedan
@Suzanne: agreed, Az is a tipping point to be realized and it can be realized. Perhaps there’s something to be said that if we can turn Arizona (and I believe it can be done), it can give a huge boost to bringing others out of the woodwork to beat back the teahadi movement on a wide front. Because Az is most definitely on the front line of the crazy train with national idiocy realized in guys like Arpaio, Babeu, Franks and McCain. The same state that decided that there was a need for a state handgun in the next legislative session post the murders in Tucson.
The issues are frontline here too, because Arizona does mainline the worst of the legislative initiative that come outta Kris Kobach’s demented mind over at ALEC.
The issues here…
Voting – registration of Latinos and Native Americans
Guns – open carry, open lunacy
Climate change – anyone noting that there’s almost no need for Lake Mead any more because of the severe drought and the impact on Arizona farming and development
Economic Inequality – Scottsdale versus the Reservations
Immigration/Drugs – they’re linked in Arizona because of how they interact with interdiction and transport
so in many ways, Arizona ticks off damn near all of the major boxes of the major issues facing the country, not just some of them.
I respect Markos and his reasons, but it’s not as if there aren’t some benefits to taking the fight into the lion’s den as well.
soonergrunt
@VidaLoca: “Somebody is taking themselves way too seriously.”
The essence of the “netroots.”
Cervantes
@Kay: That’s funny. Asheville is not your typical Republican precinct in North Carolina.
askew
@Kay:
He announced his boycott of Arizona years ago and the team selecting the location knew of his objection and chose the site anyways. I had an exchange with one of them yesterday at DK and they seemed quite clueless to be honest. They kept saying bullshit about taking the fight to Arizona while ignoring the questions about how POC would be in greater danger if they attended NN in Arizona. They said they got sign-off from some immigration groups to go, but I don’t think that cancels out the increased danger they are putting POC in by choosing this site.
There were lots of other locations they could choose from. It was clear that they don’t consider safety concerns an issue. It reminds me of the white privilege that continues to be a problem on the left blogs.
Kay
@askew:
The immigration issue was kind of “hot” there, like there was a lot of energy around it, so maybe that fervor drowned out their ability to hear anything or think it thru. You’re familiar with that, I’m sure. When you’re “in” something it feels immediate and urgent and can seem ill-advised later, with a little distance. I’m completely guessing, but I bet they were surprised he thinks they’re ignoring his concerns because immigration was mentioned constantly and he’s an immigration reform advocate.
I do think they’re completely missing the civil rights aspect of “show us your papers”, so we agree there. That’s individual, single individuals. That has to be reckoned with.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Kay: What color is the sky in their world?
I’ve reluctantly come to the conclusion that GOP public employees are GOP and anti-union because they are highly offended that their coworkers of color make the same money they do. It’s the only thing that makes sense. We talk about cognitive dissonance a lot. Public employee plus GOP is cognitive dissonance to the extreme. Research shows that people avoid cognitive dissonance at any cost. So what’s going on here? Well, just listen to these scabs and they will tell you about “merit pay” about how other people are slackers, bad workers (usually it is the biggest shirker who says this, just watch and listen), it’s not fair they don’t deserve not to get their raise, yadda yadda. This is the Lee Atwater effect, instead of saying “nigger, nigger” they say “goldbricker”. The first time I ever heard that word it was said in a tone that screamed “nigger” to me.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
I have a coworker, I think he is a real hypocrite. He went on and on about how he and his parents encountered racial segregation when they moved from the North to the South in the 60s and how he felt that was wrong and even related how his father confronted other white people about it.
But when it’s time to come together to uplift all of the workers in a very diverse workforce, an effort that will help his own pocketbook, he runs away. Tells tales of courage but flees with his tail between his legs because his wife is a tea party activist.
askew
@Armadillo:
They decided Obama wasn’t pure enough and they spent pretty much all of their time attacking and undermining his administration. In 2010, they let a couple of paid FDL bloggers post at DK and they basically drove off a large portion of the site by lying about the health care bill and eventually working to try to kill the bill. Then, after they failed miserably there was a rule made that no one was allowed to mention that they took money to basically undermine the site. There was also a concentrated effort to troll Black Kos and they drove off a large portion of the AA posters there.
WaterGirl
@askew: @Kay: The decision to hold the next NN in Arizona seems deeply disrespectful to me.
Disrespectful of Marcos.
Disrespectful of activists who made a commitment not to spend any of their money in AZ.
Disrespectful of people of color who put themselves at physical risk by going to AZ.
What, the NN folks couldn’t do an email survey to the DKOS mailing list to ask how the membership would feel about this?
When you’re disrespectful of that many people, it reeks of a power play. This is about NN and KOS. There was an unstated immigration theme at NN this year – perhaps the NN theme for 2015 is really “you’re not the boss of me”, directed at Marcos.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@askew: the fact that Denise Oliver Velez has hung in there through all that makes her even more amazing than I knew
askew
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
Yeah, and there have been multiple coordinated attacks from posters there to try to get her banned and/or kicked off the front page. Not unlike what happened with ABL here unfortunately.
Karen in GA
@WaterGirl: From what I was reading at GOS, evidently the decision was made early last year.
(I don’t like it either, FWIW.)
Kay
@WaterGirl:
I also think Kos is a unapologetically political person (judging from his writing only) and the civil rights argument in “show me your papers” states is a powerful political argument that they shouldn’t concede. It’s not smart politics to concede it. It has to be personal to resonate with white people, and that’s the “hook” – “this law means people can be stopped and bothered and made to feel unamerican and unwelcome in their own communities- how would YOU feel if you were them?”
Cervantes
In the middle of the NYT story today about forensic experts finally getting access to the remains of MH17 passengers and crew, we get this:
Armadillo
@askew:
Um, wow. Thanks for that summary. I guess I missed a lot. Possibly because I read it like a news site, e.g. don’t read comments. Thanks again.
Villago Delenda Est
@Baud: Let’s not get too crazy, here.
Villago Delenda Est
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
The sex must be pretty good.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@askew: Discussing anything from an African-American perspective online is like feminism–it will be dive-bombed by relentless trolls. This used to be true of gay sites but the word got out that our biggest obsessed homophobes get a woody from watching nekkid dudes make out.
So how does one make the sociopaths, narcissists, and losers who keep trolling The Grio, TWiB, etc, etc look and feel ridiculous for doing so?
Villago Delenda Est
@Kay:
Chambers of Commerce are a target rich area for those who need to put their guillotines to productive use.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Villago Delenda Est:
She makes all the money. Nice house, travel, new cars, eating out all the time.
RaflW
Unitarian Universalists wrestled with this question a couple years ago for our General Assembly – a 4,000+ person conference booked for Phoenix.
We asked Latino activists on the ground in AZ what they wanted us to do. They said come, witness, agitate, bring stories back to your home towns. We did that. I think it mattered.
You can check out what Maria Hinojosa said to us as keynote here: http://blogs.uuworld.org/ga/2012/06/23/hinojosa-describes-two-americas-in-ware-lecture/
askew
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
That is a good question and I have no idea but it is pretty discouraging to see so much racism on the left blogs.
feebog
Today’s high in Phoenix will be 107, with a low of 85. That should be enough reason to shun the city. Speaking as someone who used to travel there frequently, there really are no attractions. Unless you want to golf, or drive around looking at endless tracts of homes, not much to do.
askew
Kos has a new post up explaining his position more fully. He smartly brings up the safety concerns and it’s pretty clear that he’s ticked that the board blew off his and many other POC concerns about picking Arizona as a site. Pretty revolting stuff and incredibly hard to defend for any progressive.
Kay
@Villago Delenda Est:
One of them is a magistrate who I have a good rapport with. I like to talk to the non-crazies because they have such a different take. They just have a whole different view of the world. I argue a lot in front of him to waive various fees, because my people can’t afford his draconian and authoritarian “fees”. I know he’s on the board of a local bank, so I tell him “I know this isn’t a concern for you, member of the 1% that you are”. He thinks that’s a compliment :)
He’s not, of course, a member of the 1% but I recognize and even embrace my role as “token liberal” :)
Cervantes
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
Assert that they have unacknowledged (and, needless to say, embarrassing) African-American ancestors here and there in the family tree.
Linnaeus
@Kay:
Yep. I really respect NN’s policy of holding events at union-staffed facilities. It’s not always easy to live progressive values in this world – you have to make compromises all of the time – but this is one clear way that a progressive meeting can do that. I’m all for it.
I’m told by the NN staff that the facilities being used in Phoenix are unionized. They wouldn’t have gone there otherwise.
askew
It’s too bad they value unions more than POC then.
Linnaeus
@askew:
I wouldn’t say that’s the case. There are other unionized venues NN could have gone to.
Lawrence
I’ve lived in Phoenix for most of my life. One of the reasons this city votes the way it does is that the Democrats don’t try to compete here. I am very happy to see Netroots Nation coming here next year. Those posting about the increased danger to people of color here are vastly overstating the issue. The cops don’t target rental cars. I say cars because unless you are in the convention, your hotel, or someplace being someone’s customer, you are in a car. You won’t want to be outside, not until late September. Public transit is a joke here. We drive to our jobs, and home to our houses with 6 foot high block fenced yards. We don’t know our neighbors. If you live next to an extrovert they might bring you a plate of cookies at christmas, tamales if your really lucky. And you both feel weird about it. It’s the anti-Minnesota. Which is also weird considering how infested the place is with midwesterners. And you almost never see people wearing guns, even though it has been legal since forever. And we could paint it purple here if we tried. So bring on the Netroots.
askew
@Linnaeus:
That just proofs that they value unions more than POC. Otherwise, they would have picked one of those other venues in a different state.
Linnaeus
@askew:
The other way to look at it is that there were other factors involved in the choice, not just the issue of unionized facilities. If you have multiple union options, and you pick one over others, then that suggests that there was another criterion that influenced the decision. So I don’t agree that it’s a “unions vs. people of color” thing (keeping in mind that many POC are heavily involved in organized labor). Which is not to say that there is no room to criticize the choice of Phoenix.
WaterGirl
@Cervantes: Wow, just wow.
By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN, SABRINA TAVERNISE and NEIL MacFARQUHAR
wenchacha
@Kay: Send them to Youngstown.
Cervantes
@WaterGirl: (I don’t know the three too well and so I wasn’t sure whether to shame them by name here, yet. I suspect you made the right decision.)
karen marie
@ChaseBears: I would like such a guide for everyday use. I have lived a lot of places and never hated where I was until I moved to AZ. Unfortunately, picking up and leaving is not an option right now. Selfishly, my reaction to the news was FUCK YEAH! But it really is a bad idea, upon reflection, giving the state any business. Plus July in Phoenix? Only someone who has never been here in summer would think that was a good idea. Only thing worse is August in Phoenix.
Joe Buck
People asking what those on the ground think about Kos’s stand ignore that, the way the law is written, out-of-state Latinos are in much more danger of harassment than in-state Latinos. That’s because police are instructed to consider an Arizona driver’s license proof of citizenship, but no ID issued by another state counts. Armando recently posted the relevant law (and yes, the relevant portion is still in effect). An out-of-state Latino traveling in Arizona would be wise to bring a passport.
Dog On Porch
Two San Francisco Giants broadcasters flew into Phoenix for a series last summer on separate flights. The pilot of the first plane to land announced the temperature outside was 113 degrees. The second plane landed within a couple of hours, and the temperature had climbed to 117 degrees.
Their punchline after telling that story: “At least it’s a dry heat”.
karen marie
@feebog: And only if you want to golf at 3 am, because the rest of the day you’ll burst into flames if you spend more than 3 minutes in the sun.
azrev
@Baud: There would be a divided response. As a former resident of Arizona (so happy about that “former”), my experience was that the only thing that got the business community’s attention was the reality of lost dollars due to people taking their business elsewhere. That’s what prevented even more egregious legislation being passed a few years ago and that’s the only thing that will keep them in check.
James E. Powell
Netroots Nation is definitely screwing with their brand. I never understand what causes organizations to do that, but they do. And this organization isn’t big enough or well-established enough to do that.
They should have stuck with going to blue or at least purple places.
WaterGirl
@Cervantes: I’ve heard of the 5 Ws – who, what, where, when and why. I just never realized that in this story the “who” would be a description of who dresses like a hot babe.
I’m perfectly willing to publicly shame anyone who had their name on that story.
Cervantes
@WaterGirl: It’s a shame the editors aren’t named.
Mnemosyne
@WaterGirl:
I’m guessing that the purpose was to imply that the woman wasn’t really a railroad employee since she was dressed like that. But given what I’ve heard about the Russian workplace (think “Mad Men”), I wouldn’t be so quick to make that assumption if I was one of those reporters.
mai naem
Wow, wonder how Howard Dean feels about this. We ain’t gonna show up because the state’s a POS state. Uhmm, 5 of 9 AZ congressional districts are held by Dems. Of the four that aren’t – one is mainly retired old white farts, one is rural white, one is very rich white urban and the last is heavily mormon, majority white. The convention, I am sure, will he held in downtown Phx which is Latino and LGBT friendly. Arpaio is a bit of a dimb bulb but he ain’t stupid enough to realize that his office is paid for by sales tax dollars.
I used to post at DK(have a lower 3 digit UID.) I respect what Markos has done and does, but I feel he thinks he’s more important than he really is in the bigger picture. .
Dog On Porch
@mai naem: Monday, 2:30 PM PST
Speculation is rampant that Netroots Nation 2016 will convene in Philadelphia, Mississippi.
Tripod
Booman is correct. Anti-establishment cred is far more important than ideology at NN. You’re not the boss of me, MOM…
Carl Nyberg
Netroots Nation has gotten awfully professional. I was in one session where speaker asked who worked for non-profits and I would conservatively estimate 80% of hands went up.
If Netroots Nation is going to be a community, it needs to respect strongly held opinions by large minorities and key stakeholders.
kos says he isn’t leading a boycott but his arguments do resonate with a bunch of people.
What happens if DFA stops sending scholarship people? What if Move On decides to back out?
Netroots Nation is at some risk of being a corporate event for insiders. Matt Stoller notes, it already has gone far in this direction.
Who is going to have great loyalty to Phoenix? It’s far enough from southern California that I doubt many of them are going to be excited about the location.
IMO, Netroots Nation should poll it’s organizational supporters and and people who have attended as individuals. If more than 20% have serious issues with Arizona, go someplace else.
It just doesn’t seem like the benefits of Arizona are worth having a nasty fight over.
Carl Nyberg
BTW, what guarantees do NN participants have that Sheriff Arpaio won’t have his deputies harass NN participants?
It seems like just the kind of dick move he’d love to do.
Carl Nyberg
Is there anything in Arizona law that prevents RWNJs from doing an “open carry” demonstration outside Netroots Nation?
If there isn’t, is Netroots Nation expecting the decency of Right Wingers to prevent this from happening?