Someone other than Edward Snowden has leaked confidential documents to The Intercept’s Glenn Greenwald. A new article published on the site today by Jeremy Scahill and Ryan Devereaux provides details about the government’s terrorist screening database, which contains info on 680K people, 40% of whom allegedly have no ties to a known terrorist group.
The figures in the new report come from a secret document that provides information current as of August 2013, after Snowden had flown the coop. US officials confirmed to CNN that there’s a second leaker.
I know we’re supposed to express concern about (or vociferously defend) privacy infringement since this is a high-minded blog. But it’s more interesting to speculate about the identity and motivations of the new leaker.
Is it another whey-faced, 20-something college dropout with Ron Paul stickers on his Cube? When will the feds ferret out this latest dudebro hero so we can finally know the truth?
BGinCHI
680K!
That’s roughly the population of Detroit.
Coincidence?
Villago Delenda Est
That alone should be a capital offense
Kristin
This posting is not sufficiently pure, Ms. Cracker. Shame on you.
Faction
“We
torturedleaked some classified documents to some folks. We did some things that were contrary to our values. I understand why it happened…And it’s important for us not to feel too sanctimonious in retrospect about the tough job that those folks had. And a lot of those folks were working hard under enormous pressure and are real patriots.”LT
The last two paragraphs of this post – is it just lazy trolling? (Of whom?) Is it Cesca-ism disguised as snark? I don’t get it.
Because this…
…is a solid, interesting, noteworthy post, worthy of Balloon Juice, or anywhere. (680,000? What the fuck? 280,000 with no terrorism link WTFF?) Otherwise – I don’t know. Is this kind of trolling *necessary? “Necessary” isn ‘t the right word: is the shitstorm thread it is guaranteed to engender what you actually want? If so – why?
Betty Cracker
@BGinCHI: According to the leaked document, here are the cities with the highest concentrations of names on the list: New York, Dearborn, Houston, San Diego and Chicago.
BGinCHI
@LT: Be the change you wish to see in the world.
NobodySpecial
@LT: I believe the reply you were trying for was ‘We already knew this, nothing to see here.’
Betty Cracker
@LT: I’ll never be your Amy Goodman. Sorry.
BGinCHI
@Betty Cracker: No…..way…..
I can see Dearborn, but all the thugs we have and we are behind San Diego?
Fuck that.
askew
Greenwald is throwing a massive tantrum because the government did an interview with the AP about this leak and it ended up scooping his site. And he is sure it is a sign that the government is out to get him and his site. What a nutjob.
James E. Powell
680K people, 40% of whom allegedly have no ties to a known terrorist group.
But maybe they have ties to people who have ties to a known terrorist group. Or maybe ties to people who have ties to other people who have ties to a known terrorist group.
Six degrees of separation meets the 1% doctrine.
Corner Stone
I love you B Crack, and I don’t care who knows it.
gene108
I wonder how much harder it is for people to get government clearance now, because the people that approve this stuff must be really scare to approve a clearance for a potential snitch.
Corner Stone
***GASPS***
Corner Stone
@Corner Stone: And Holy Shit but I’ll be in San Diego soon!
If Nashville is anywhere on that list then I am fucked. Fucked, I say!
Corner Stone
@James E. Powell:
Or maybe just their car mechanic.
BGinCHI
@Corner Stone: Do NOT take your guitar case.
ETA: or your antique sword umbrella.
Violet
Let’s imagine for a minute it’s a black guy with saggy pants and a police record. Would that change anything?
LT
@Betty Cracker: One Amy Goodman’s plenty.
I’d be more appreciative of free-form, targetless, “Let’s please have another one of those threads!” trolling if it had some underlying point. John didn’t bring you here to be John – but fuck. This is lazy.
ulee
I love to hate on the whey-faced. And the gingers. And if they’re oldsters, all the better.
maya
Terrorist groups wear ties? Batik or paisley?
Corner Stone
@NobodySpecial: Sorry. But I have the patent on that for this site.
Yawn. Known. Burger.
BGinCHI
@LT: Put the shovel down.
Corner Stone
@BGinCHI: How about my Speedo?
LT
@NobodySpecial:
But that’s why it’s confusing. Betty has largely left her inner Cesca in the dust. Then – this. Confusing.
Corner Stone
@LT: Honestly, I think you’ve missed this one. Please take a second look.
BGinCHI
@Corner Stone: Whole different kind of terrorism.
Villago Delenda Est
@askew: Thou shalt not scoop Glenzilla. There is no higher commandment.
Glenzilla screams “pay attention to me!” on a fucking 24/7 basis.
Betty Cracker
@LT: Your concern is duly noted, possibly even by government agencies!
LT
And Cesca and Josh Marshall today – wow. They seem to have lost all self-awareness.
Villago Delenda Est
@maya: Regimental.
BGinCHI
Am I the only one around here who likes Scahill?
He also has an attractive, closely shaven beard.
Just being honest.
Major Major Major Major (formerly J.Ty)
I stopped reading it at
‘cuuuz, as the graph right below shows, al Qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah affiliated individuals aren’t really a big portion of the list. But, y’know, rhetoric is important if you’re editorializing.
I’ll track down an actual journalistic source and read that.
askew
@Villago Delenda Est:
With that ego I knew he’d meltdown eventually but to be over something this silly is pretty funny.
LT
@Corner Stone: “Honestly, I think you’ve missed this one. Please take a second look.”
Totally possible! And I took a third look before posting.
Please note that this ain’t in a vacuum. Betty does have a histo4ry on this, although she has evolved away from Cescaish nonsense.
Corner Stone
Son.of.a.bitch. I’m going to be in Chicago in October.
I am so done for.
Damn you, Griftwald!!
A Humble Lurker
OT But can we have a thread on that thing with Steve King, two Dreamers, and Rand Paul running away from them as fast as he could without even finishing his burger? The whole video and conversation King has with the Dreamers is sad, infuriating and in its own way sadly, infuriatingly hilarious. It’s been mentioned in earlier threads but I kept expecting someone to give it its own thread.
LT
@Betty Cracker: Betty, I love ya – really, in an internet way – but do you really not know the proper use of “concern”?
Corner Stone
@BGinCHI: Indeed. Indeed.
BGinCHI
@LT: Mac or PC, which is better?
Major Major Major Major (formerly J.Ty)
Also, who the frak is naming these programs? “Hydra”? Try to sound less like a bond villain, CIA. Were “Banana” and “Us Weekly” taken? (inspiration drawn from my coffee table)
Villago Delenda Est
@A Humble Lurker: Well, it was linked from comments last night.
What more needs to be said about it other than Steve King and Rand Paul should both be flayed alive before their heads are placed on pikes?
kc
@LT:
Okay, enough pearl-clutching.
Heliopause
It’s funny when people who don’t like Greenwald give him credit for other people’s work.
Villago Delenda Est
@Major Major Major Major (formerly J.Ty): HYDRA was the organization Nick Fury opposed with SHIELD in the comic books in the 60’s.
The military is big on using mythological references for various operations and devices. I used to use NESTOR crypto gear back in the early 80’s.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@askew: Well, Glen sure didn’t disappoint, I see. My days of underestimating him are coming to a middle.
Mnemosyne
Fix’d. I still don’t get why you think it’s A-OK to give classified information to China and Russia as long as it’s about US government wrongdoing, but whatever floats your boat.
And, yes, I take this leak much more seriously than Snowden’s because the leaker didn’t give classified information to China and Russia. I guess I’m just funny that way.
Citizen_X
@Major Major Major Major (formerly J.Ty): Hail Hydra!
Violet
@BGinCHI:
Is that a terrorist beard or a Real Murkin beard? How can we be sure?
Corner Stone
@Major Major Major Major (formerly J.Ty):
You have a coffee table and also a subscription to at least one news magazine?
Elitist! One Percenter! Fie! Fie! Fiiiieeee!!!
Kristin
@askew: His reaction is priceless: “Fine, then. I’ll only give them 15 minutes to respond next time. Or I won’t ask for comments at all!” Because, we all know that’s how REAL journalism works.
Dog On Porch
I hope the day will come when Ron Wyden of Oregon concludes, “enough of this shadow government bullshit”, and finds the moral courage to break the law by speaking the truth about it to all Americans.
Scotty
Could the one’s with no ties be considered potential domestic terrorists?
kc
@Mnemosyne:
Pretty sure NO ONE SAID THAT.
Kropadope
@Major Major Major Major (formerly J.Ty):
So, am I to understand that you are unfamiliar with Captain America?
LT
@askew: “Greenwald is throwing a massive tantrum because…”
You’ve gotta stop stealing the opening line of every other Charles Johnson tweet.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@gene108: Yeah right. The snitches are all the sort of people who waltz into clearances–upper middle class white males with the right accent and the right friends. This is how the CIA operates and why they’re so incompetent and ineffective. FBI also, too, for that matter, when it comes to terrorism surveillance and organized crime. Although FBI will also take down on their luck, upper middle class aspirant lower middle class whites with “ethnic” (Roman Catholic) families, as opposed to the WASPy CIA culture.
Villago Delenda Est
@Dog On Porch: Hmmm…he’s not up for reelection this year, perhaps next time around…
Kristin
@LT: Man. You are really one note.
Corner Stone
@askew:
Links, please?
LT
@Betty Cracker:
Awww – your first turnip. Ain’t gardens grand?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@BGinCHI: I have no problems with Scahill. I have no opinion on his beard.
Kristin
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): I think that the clearances that are given out to contractors and other such things going on are a big issue here demonstrating some serious incompetence. It gets lost in the muck sometimes, though.
burnspbesq
@BGinCHI:
It’s not about thugs, per se. Most of your thugs are African-American or Hispanic and therefore not a security threat like swarthy men with vaguely Middle-Eastern sounding names.
Corner Stone
@Kristin:
Link, please?
SatanicPanic
Obama could put an end to this all by prosecuting Bush
Villago Delenda Est
@Kristin: This is my primary concern, too. because the contractors have, shall we say, conflicting motivations here. The “you must show growth in profits in a continuous upward trend” meme conflicts with the “spend what you must to make things secure” meme.
Corners are cut to keep the hookers and booze flowing.
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne:And I don’t get why you think I think it’s A-OK to give classified information to China and Russia as long as it’s about US government wrongdoing. I’m pretty sure I’ve never said that.
Major Major Major Major (formerly J.Ty)
@Kropadope: @Villago Delenda Est: There’s a reason these sorts of names are associated with eeeeevil, is all I’m saying. It’d behoove the intelligence community to stay away from things that are bad guys in comic books and movies and really just anything Ian Fleming wrote. (Yes, I know he was a spy.)
LT
@Kristin: The fact that the government is falling all over itself to apologize and say it was an accident makes you funny.
@Corner Stone: According to John Cook, gov regretting this already:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/05/terror-watch-list_n_5651757.html
Corner Stone
@BGinCHI:
I happen to think he’s just dreamy.
Not a big fan of the beard, though. It kind of itches after a bit.
BGinCHI
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Thanks Mr. Negative.
BGinCHI
Meanwhile another American Patriot bites the dust.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/lance-mason-cleveland-judge-guns
burnspbesq
@BGinCHI:
Linux. And the Grateful Dead always sucked.
ranchandsyrup
Thought this was a weird defense of Rand Paul’s dual positions on aid to Israel.
Glenn Greenwald @ggreenwald · 3h
Here, @TheDemocrats seem to be attacking Rand Paul for the crime of once advocating cuts in aid to Israel
scav
@Betty Cracker: Dearborn is rather a tell. Could just be immigrants, general, but with Dearborn? map (sorry 2000 was easiest to link)
Kristin
@Corner Stone: Do you think I just made it up? Sheesh. https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/496723728668303361
Kristin
@Corner Stone: Do you think I just made it up? Sheesh. https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/496723728668303361
nellcote
What if it’s the NSA leaking disinformation to the glennbots? What if they’re leaking low level stuff to set GG up for a major embarassing fake “exclusive”? What’s the Intercept’s comparable to Drudge’s sirens?
The Intercept got intercepted! LOL
Corner Stone
@Villago Delenda Est:
Screw you, clown!
Villago Delenda Est
@LT:
We thought.
We thought.
Rule number one: Once the information is out of your mouth, it is no longer under your control. It’s gone. It’s on CNN, it’s on Reddit, it’s in Playboy, it’s on Facebook, it’s in your grandma’s back yard with the gardenias.
Kristin
@LT: Whatever. You are super boring.
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
Then why link this new leaker with Snowden? Again, the problem I have with Snowden is not that he leaked, it’s that he gave classified information to China and Russia.
The only person trying to discredit this leaker by associating him with Snowden’s actions is, well, you.
BGinCHI
@burnspbesq: Agreed.
Also Derek Jeter is the greatest player who ever lived.
Corner Stone
@Kristin: Thanks for the link. I didn’t know if you had made it up. That’s pretty common around here when people are in pure bloodlust bashing mode of the Griftwald Beast.
But your paraphrase leaves quite a bit to be desired, if you’ll be honest with yourself.
LT
@Kristin:
John Cole: I want a prize for this.
Kristin
@Corner Stone: Of course that’s what you’d say.
Get a grip. Seriously.
Betty Cracker
@nellcote: That would be pretty damn clever. The way the journalistic herd runs, it would probably put the kibosh on NSA stories for a generation.
Mnemosyne
@kc:
Then why associate this leaker with Snowden, who did give classified information to China and Russia?
LT
@Villago Delenda Est:
Yeah but that’s called “a lie.” Straight up, yo.
Cacti
So in contrast, a mere 400,000 do have a recognized affiliation?
Villago Delenda Est
@LT: You know, Cole could send you a no-prize, the way Stan Lee sent no-prizes to Marvel fans back in the 60’s.
burnspbesq
@BGinCHI:
Derek Jeter is small-time. Jim Brown is the greatest player who ever lived, in two different sports.
Heliopause
@Corner Stone:
They’re still crediting Greenwald for other people’s work. It’s editor John Cook who threatened a 30 minute limit.
Greenwald seems to be a kind of supervillain puppetmaster in some people’s minds. Odd.
Violet
@Kristin: @Villago Delenda Est: Quite a few years ago now a friend of mine was dating a woman from Iran. She was in the US legally but had family here and Iran. He worked for a consulting company was frequently assigned to jobs with government agencies. He was told by his employer, the consulting company, that if he continued dating her his ability to get higher security clearances would be compromised and he would not be able to advance in the company.
So yeah, there are multiple competing allegiances for consultants. They are supposed to do their job for the government agency but they are also mindful of their career path at the consulting company, which may or may not include long term jobs for the government.
SatanicPanic
@BGinCHI: Of all sports or just baseball? Either is plausible
Kristin
@LT: Why should you get a prize for being attention-seeking and repetitive?
Corner Stone
@Kristin: I have one, thanks. It’s not hard to actually “quote” what The Griftwald said when he was “totes fucking freaking out!!!”
Just copy it instead of changing four fucking words you stupid fucking loser.
Villago Delenda Est
@Cacti:
Given this list was created back during the days of the deserting coward, registration as a Democrat is probably more than enough evidence of improper affiliation.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Villago Delenda Est: And just when he had another fawning NYT lifestyle piece about him with photos coming out.
Corner Stone
@Kristin: Here, this is what it would have taken on your part:
OMG! The Griftwald is totes fucking freakin’ out on this shit, dawg! Lookie at this pathetic freak out, y’all!!!
“Give them 15 minutes before publication to comment from now on, or stop asking them for comment altogether.”
There. How’s that?
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@LT: Marshall lives for clickbait, he’s nothing but a liberal Drudge at this point who needs eyeballs. Dunno what Cesca’s excuse is.
I quit TPM eons ago when it got into misleading headlines and constant fear-mongering (and they fucked up the comments … twice)
Kristin
@Corner Stone: No one said “totes fucking freaking out!!!” You fabricated that from whole cloth, which is funny in the context of you harassing me over paraphrasing that was pretty spot on.
Also, relax. Is Greenwald really worth embarrassing yourself in this way? Sad, really.
Kristin
@Corner Stone: You are insane. Seek help.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@A Humble Lurker: Yes. This. There was a great thread earlier today on RawStory if you can brave their commentariat. (more trolls and the commenting system is annoying)
Keith G
@Mnemosyne:
Good golly, I guess I missed the article explaining that Snowden did this. Where was this reported?
Corner Stone
@Kristin: Speaking of embarrassing yourself. This is what you want to use quotes on?
Corner Stone
@Kristin: Ok. I’ll do my best to not use quotes and completely fucking lie about what someone actually said.
Thanks for the protip!
Villago Delenda Est
Cripes, this is unbelievably stupid, from Noisemax:
Palin Slams Jesse Ventura Over Lawsuit
Palin needs to GO FUCKING AWAY.
nellcote
@Heliopause:
well that’s true. GG is threatening 15 min or not at all…
Glenn Greenwald ✔ @ggreenwald
@onekade Give them 15 minutes before publication to comment from now on, or stop asking them for comment altogether.
11:25 AM – 5 Aug 2014
Kristin
@Corner Stone: Honestly, you are really sad, and I feel sorry for you.
But, I think I’m pretty done here. If I were anywhere else, and someone called me a “stupid fucking loser” that person would be banned. I know that’s not how things are done here, but I don’t need this abuse.
Corner Stone
@Kristin: That wasn’t a fucking paraphrase. You said, “his reaction is priceless”.
After all the shenannies just a thread ago about incorrect attribution, you want to try this BS on?
Corner Stone
@Kristin: Fuck you, you stupid fucking loser.
Kristin
@Corner Stone: Well, you got me to leave, so good for you.
Hopefully, you’ll get some help for whatever it is that ails you. I wish the best for you.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@kc: So if you don’t mean to end up giving classified info to China and Russia, it just happened, is that like when you’re making out with your boyfriend and you don’t have a condom and just happen to have unprotected sex, but it’s not horrible slutty slut fornicating because it just happened?
I didn’t mean to go on a drunken bender with two other violent shitheads and abduct, rape, and murder that girl and then dump her body and fabricate an alibi, it just happened, so please acquit. The end.
SatanicPanic
@Kristin: Corner Stone got a time-out a few years back, but apparently there’s no way to ban people permanently. She calls us all names, especially if this subject comes up.
Mandalay
@askew:
Ah, the good old days are back at BJ. The smear without any link to support it.
Greenwald has a mole and he’s just published a big story. I would think he’s in seventh heaven right now.
You’re the nutjob. Where’s your link to Greenwald throwing a massive tantrum?
ulee
@Villago Delenda Est: I don’t want Palin to go away. McCain needs to hear this. Every day. For the rest of his miserable life.
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
So when Betty wrote this:
She was not referring to Snowden? Who was she referring to, then?
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Kristin: Yes, you’re right, I had totally forgotten about the fake background check scandal, where the Bush admin paid a contractor big buxxxx
to save taxpayers moneydo background checks on clearance hires but the contractor, ya know, never got around to doing the background check.Investigating that would have been nice, but a) Greenwald’s ego sucks all the air out of the room and b) do-nothing congress continues to do nothing.
Dog On Porch
@Villago Delenda Est: Re-election? He’d be wiser to ponder that old bugaboo going to prison, as he would surely be prosecuted and convicted. It would be an immortal trial, one for the ages.
Memo to Wyden: #1 Be a patriotic sport. You know it’s the right thing to do. You’ll feel better after its done. #2 Come on, we’re talking FEDERAL prison, a veritable country club environment. #3 You would be acquitted in public opinion, and soon enough paroled. #4 You’ve got to trust me on #3.
gogol's wife
@Kristin:
Please don’t leave because of him. I haven’t even read the thread, and I know it’s not worth it.
burnspbesq
And once again Corner Stone manages to hijack a thread, drain it of relevance or meaning, and make it all about her.
Yay.
Mnemosyne
@burnspbesq:
Him. Corner Stone is a him (and the sole denizen of my pie filter). Sorry, he’s on your team, you’re stuck with him.
Cacti
@Dog On Porch:
Sounds like the same sort of memo that wikileaks got Bradley Manning to swallow.
Corner Stone
@Kristin:
It’s mainly just about when people lie about shit, then when called on it they crawfish the fuck on out the door.
You could help me, if you were willing. Stop fucking lying.
Thanks!
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@LT: I refuse to follow HuffPoo links but I don’t understand–what’s the timeline here? If Greenwald has the goods, why doesn’t he drop it like it’s hot? Did “Eileen” just scramble to turn things around as soon as she got wind of what Greenwald had or did Greenwald just get distracted as he always does and figure he had all the time in the world. I mean, the Intercept is not exactly known for its professionalism, steady posting schedule, well, anything, really.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq: She lied, then couldn’t back it up when called on it.
Doesn’t have a thing to do with me.
Keith G
@Mnemosyne: Ah now, do not change the subject of the my question. When you typed:
I became curious about the news report that gave you that information. I have not seen such a report and if I missed it, I want to find out more.
burnspbesq
@Dog On Porch:
Not so fast. A sitting member of Congress can dump pretty much anything he or she wants into the Congressional Record, and defend on the basis of the Speech and Debate Clause. I’d like his chances of getting the indictment dismissed before trial. I’d like even better the idea of Eric Holder deciding that this isn’t the hill to die on.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Dog On Porch:
Explain how Wyden would not have immunity if he did something like that from the well of the Senate.
ETA: Wyden seems to be trying be a workhorse on the issue and is pushing legislation rather than being a showhorse and making a public spectacle. I see value in that even if you don’t.
Corner Stone
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
What does this mean?
They recently significantly delayed a story due to the govt stating that several parts of it could be harmful, and they needed to check it out.
If that isn’t professionalism, then what is?
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@BGinCHI: Good old internet. TPM at end of article “H/T Raw Story” (wow)
Raw Story “according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer”
Plain Dealer gives a byline to Andrew J Tobias, “Northeast Ohio Media Group”
A really good tale would be nested 6 or 7 blogs deep, I think.
burnspbesq
@Corner Stone:
In the same sense that Kevin McCarthy’s book isn’t about impeachment.
We get that you believe that your shit doesn’t stink. That’s about the deficiencies of your nose, and nothing else.
Villago Delenda Est
@ulee: Why do we need to suffer for Gramps Walnut’s sins?
Corner Stone
@SatanicPanic: I thought we had something special?
I’m a little emotional about this. Hold me?
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
Oh, sweetie. Yes, I’m sure that he spoke extensively to the Chinese government and was given asylum in Russia because he had absolutely no useful information to give them. Putin is such a sweet guy that he did it out of the generous kindness of his heart.
By the way, when are you going to come look at that bridge I have for sale? I’m telling you, it’s a bargain.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq: How did I make her lie, counselor?
And when asked, how did I leave her without the ability to back it up in anyway?
Thanks!
Heliopause
@nellcote:
1. Greenwald was answering a hypothetical question.
2. He is neither writer nor editor of this story.
White Trash Liberal
I would be interested in parsing what is on the watch list, and what qualifies not being affiliated with a terrorist group.
It’s a large number, with some real stories embedded in the data.
Or not. This is enough red meat to continue the controversy about government secrecy and surveillance, and that’s what counts.
SatanicPanic
@Corner Stone: I have a thing against white people so no
LT
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): So you refuse to follow links and then demand answers from me. Okay then.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Villago Delenda Est: Well, it really must surprise no-one that Palin’s throwing her weight behind a proven (in court!) liar. Liars gotta stick together. Dead military liars and their myths are the most beloved and protected liars at all.
(Ventura was in the military but dared to criticize it.)
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@LT: I’m sorry you’re having a tantrum today. I thought we were having a discussion. But running ghostery or not, not stepping in HuffPoo with this browser. Have the same policy with DailyMail and “free porn!!!” sites.
Betty Cracker
@Mnemosyne: Huh. I don’t think jokingly speculating about similarities between two leakers who leaked information from the same agency to the same journalist constitutes wholesale approval of divulging government secrets to other countries. I failed to consider your (as yet unproven, as far as I know) allegation about Snowden, instead referencing objections others often bandy about when this topic surfaces, such as Snowden’s race, political affiliations and dudebro-ness .
Dog On Porch
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Don’t look at me to explain. My understanding has it that members of the Intelligence Committees will be in prosecutorial deep shit if they intentionally reveal what they know. No doubt a Constitutional imbroglio would serve to make a even more compelling drama.
And if congressional immunity can be invoked via the the well of the senate, or by inclusion of documents into the senate record, Wyden should have done it years ago.
Mandalay
@Kristin:
His reaction was because of what the government did, which was to violate the usual relationship between journalists and sources (how REAL journalism works), and leak a story to a third party.
But you obviously didn’t understand any of that. Advertising your ignorance and stupidity was paramount.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Kristin: That’s because this place is full of olds, and they rely on killfiles, like on usenet, again, olds.
There is something called a “pie filter” you can download it and it will improve Corner Stone’s comments 100%. I guarantee it.
I really like pie!
Corner Stone
@SatanicPanic: I’m a tiny bit Native American. Does that help? A little? My maternal grandmother? Hmmm? Help a little? Little bit? Maybe? Hmmmm??
ulee
@Villago Delenda Est: Well, Lennon digged a pony. McCrash digged looking at Palin’s ass on stage. Palin digs Putin’s hairless chest. I dig watching McCrash eat Palin’s bile for breakfast every morning. It’s sort of a full circle.
Corner Stone
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): Ahhh, the exultant pie user!
Always warms the cockles of my heart, and festoons me with glee!
Mnemosyne
@White Trash Liberal:
I think “watch list” is triggering a lot of reactions from people because we all know how goddamned impossible it was to get off the “terrorist watch list” for TSA and how many people were on it who never should have been on in the first place (like little kids, people not of the same race as the listed person, etc.) So, like everyone else, I’m wondering how many of the people on this “watch list” actually belong on there because they actually have some kind of terrorist ties, and how many people just happen to share a common name with someone with terrorist ties.
Mandalay
@Heliopause:
Yep. There’s a slew of idiots on this thread chortling and guffawing about stuff that never happened.
LanceThruster
This occurred about 6-8 years ago. I asked Michael Chertoff directly at a lecture at my university. I asked him how we as Americans could trust that the recent story of so many false positive of the no-fly watch list is not a serious concern(it’s up to like a bazillion names so clearly the only people in the country not terrorist are me and you…and i’m not so sure about you).
He dismissed it with the verbal technique of hand waving and changed the subject.
He said (pretty close to an exact quote) That it doesn’t happen that often, the information is not misused, false positives can be corrected so they don’t recur, our people have integrity, I can assure you, and when they don’t they area they are lacking in integrity isn’t relevant to those with privileged information. He then changed to subject by adding that they’ve got some cool spy toys/aids/tools/software on the horizon that meant that trivial concerns we had that were of no real concern would soon be of even less concern, though that would be based on them getting the budget needed to keep that well-oiled machine humming.
Cacti
@Mandalay:
But “the government” wasn’t the source, the leaker was the source.
Not to mention, when you style yourself as a new-school, guerilla journalist who is there to challenge the norms of journalism and shake things up…
It seems just a bit petulant to whine “bad form” when someone else steps on a traditional nicety that you happen to favor.
LT
@Villago Delenda Est: “@LT: You know, Cole could send you a no-prize, the way Stan Lee sent no-prizes to Marvel fans back in the 60′s.”
I would cherish it.
Mnemosyne
@Betty Cracker:
It’s almost certain that both Snowden and this leaker are white and male, because that’s how security agencies roll. But as long as this leaker doesn’t take his knowledge to China and Russia and claim asylum there, that’s where the similarities end.
The “dudebro” thing is slightly different, because it started as people pointing out that the Snowden threads were getting hundreds of comments by freaked-out white guys while threads about stop-and-frisk had maybe 20 comments. And I will freely admit, while I am somewhat concerned about electronic surveillance, I don’t consider it the prime civil liberties violation of all time, which is what some of the guys getting labeled “dudebros” were acting like it was.
El Caganer
@Villago Delenda Est: Well, he actually served his full term as governor, so there’s that.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Mnemosyne: Too be fair, Putin may or may not have gotten useful intelligence from Snowden (he seems to have stolen a lot of stale Powerpoints, not saying he didn’t get some sensitive documents, it’s kinda unclear actually), I mean Snowden claims Putin doesn’t get his stolen docs, but Putin may have solely wanted him for propaganda purposes.
Remember, Putin’s VOA-style external propaganda channel, Russia Today, heavily courted lefties and loons and libertarians and Snowden is a hero to all three groups. So it plays into Putin’s ridiculous (to us) propaganda that Russia is a beacon of freedom and the USA is an authoritarian hellhole. Putin is always using old-school ComIntern era propaganda such as calling Western political parties fascists and Nazis and stuff.
It also helps his internal propaganda to some extent. He can have Snowden on domestic TV talking about how horrible the US gov is for doing all the stuff Putin does, but turned up to 11, at home.
RT was actually quite effective propaganda/trolling/subversion until the Euromaiden. The young Ukrainian activists were too good at using Twitter and pushing stuff out in English. Some RT’ers have even quit.
LT
@Cacti:
The fact that the government *already realizes they fucked up makes you dumb as dumbnuts up there.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Corner Stone: To be fair, claiming some distant NA ancestry with no NA identity or ties to NA culture is about as white as it gets. Whether it’s a fanciful lie or in fact true.
Cacti
@LT:
Dudebro Translator: I got nuthin’ so I’ll start calling you names now.
Dog On Porch
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Even if I don’t? I think the world of Wyden, I do.
You make it sound as if asking a man to voluntarily submit to a indeterminable prison sentence is a big deal. Point noted.
Keith G
@Mnemosyne: Cool. I thought that I had missed some reporting on this, but no.
People make assumptions all the time and you are sure free to follow yours as far as you choose.
As far as your bridge is concerned, if it is made of no stronger stuff than your imaginings about Snowden, I am afraid that I will have to pass.
Violet
@LanceThruster: Ah, Skeletor and his money-making scheme of installing Rape-Scan machines in every airport. Certainly a guy one can trust.
Cacti
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
Yet somehow, this relatively unimportant political blog got its own dedicated, full-time Kremlin-bot.
Mandalay
@Cacti:
Whatever. Either way the Intercept has been given the perfect justification (or “pretext” or “excuse”, depending on your point of view) to now go ahead dispense with those “niceties” in future. And although I am not a journalist, I think that giving someone an opportunity to respond is much more than a nicety, and the government shot itself in the foot today.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Dog On Porch: I was pointing out the difference between working of legislation to change the current system which Wyden has been doing and creating a media spectacle which is what you seem to be advocating that he do.
LT
@Cacti: “I got nuthin’”
http://pando.com/2014/08/05/that-was-our-bad-us-government-spoils-the-intercepts-scoop-tips-off-rival-outlet/
“As for the AP, its hasty publication of three paragraphs in order to come in just ahead of the Intercept is the equivalent of posting “First!” as the initial comment in a story. Luckily, this is the Internet where people get their news from thousands of sources, not one of two local newspapers, or one of five local television stations. Being first doesn’t matter anymore. What will be remembered is who did it better.”
Dat funny. And it makes your nothing even more nothingy.
shelley
On his ‘Cube?’
*********
Homer Simpson: Okay Mr. Burns Here are your messages: “You have thirty minutes to move your car.” “You have ten minutes to move your car.” “Your car has been impounded.” “Your car has been crushed into a cube.” “You have thirty minutes to move your cube.”
Homer Simpson: [Phone Rings] Hello?
Mr. Burns: Is it about my cube?
Corner Stone
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): Not that it matters, because I do not, in fact, claim it. But my maternal grandmother was half Apache and half Scots.
I do not list myself as NA on any application, nor anything else. So go screw, clownshoe.
raven
After 15 months the mayor and commission just approved the sewer relocation project and they should start the project soon! Whoo hoo for us!
Mnemosyne
@Keith G:
No, just what Snowden was telling the South China Morning Post:
Nope, not trying to damage US intelligence overseas operations at all. Solely concerned with domestic surveillance in the US against US citizens.
Cacti
@LT:
Mnemosyne
And since I have to go do some work now — yes, I get very annoyed when my concerns about Snowden taking classified information to China and Russia are hand-waved away as me just hating dudebros. It’s kind of freaky that people are A-OK with statements like the one Snowden gave about about wanting to reveal US foreign intelligence operations around the world. At this point, is there anything about Snowden’s actions that his defenders won’t excuse away?
Corner Stone
@Cacti:
They asked the govt for comment or clarification. Are you too stupid to realize that?
Oh, wait.
Violet
@raven: Congratulations! That’s excellent news. What a long saga for you guys. Glad it all worked out in the end.
Cacti
@Mnemosyne:
Nope.
SATSQ
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Heliopause, WTH are you talking about upthread? Does not Greenwald reference the Intercept getting scooped on twitter in a conversation with his disciples? I mean it’s all public.
This was funny. http://littlegreenfootballs.com/comment/10/10495773 (oops, didn’t include my url on first pass)
I will just come out and say that I hate Greenwald and have always distrusted him, going back to his Slate days. (eta: was it Salon? I forget) I think he’s a libertarian pied piper with a GOP agenda who is trolling lefties and trying to destroy the Dem coalition from within. I thought his book circa 2006 was okay, actually I was surprised by the writing and scholarship (I guess that would be too much work for 2014 Greenwald), although of course his take is only one take (he starts with the thesis that Ford pardoning Nixon was the pivotal moment in normalizing the notion that the elites should not face punishment for their actions in government). Personally, I think politics and history are more complicated than Greenwald allows. But he made some good points. Probably because it was what I wanted to hear. Narcissist-cons go through a “honeymoon” period with marks where they say and do exactly what the mark wants to hear. Of course, things quickly go downhill for the mark once they are hooked.
Greenwald is driven by his psychological needs, not out of any concern for the greater good. So is Snowden, though he’s got this more pathetic, classic, narcissistic complex where he sees himself as some sort of messianic figure and just craves attention and adulation. Greenwald is the more manipulative sort. He wants power, glory, money, money, money, and of course attention, negative or positive, doesn’t matter. He is endlessly disruptive and destroys any possibility of a rational discussion. In the end, Greenwald has succeeded in tainting his biggest accomplishment and sowing distrust about the motives of any leaker due to his behavior, his exaggerations and manipulations, and his total disregard for the safety of intelligence personnel or the public at large.
Cacti
@Corner Stone:
Speaking of dudebros…
Did you enjoy your third bottle of dinner this evening?
raven
@Violet: Thanks! We still have to see the actual sewer job that is going to tear up the street and require the taking down of several big trees. Then our contractor will actually build the addition. We may get in under two years!
EthylEster
re: so we can finally know the truth
maybe this phrase needs to be retired from the english language.
maybe this concept needs to be retired from human consciousness.
knowing the truth is so pre post-modernism.
SatanicPanic
@Cacti: Maybe something along the lines of “supporting Democrats” I could see them not being happy with
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@Corner Stone: Oh, is it Calvinball today? You just said you’re not white, but you never claim not to be white. Got it.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@EthylEster: This is true. No, wait… Aaarrgghhh!
LanceThruster
@Violet:
I felt very safe.
/s
xD
Violet
@raven: Yeah, now the real fun begins. I hope it all works out as easily as it can. At least the city and everyone seems to be on board so there shouldn’t be any surprises in that regard.
chopper
@Corner Stone:
Wow! Is your tribal name “Drinks on Weekdays”?
Corner Stone
@Cacti: Dudebro! What’s up, Dudebro? How’s the dudebro life treatin’ ya, Dudebro?
raven
@Violet: Yup, we are very fortunate this is happening.
Corner Stone
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): Sigh.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
@EthylEster: Even in the post post post post modern age we will still have “TRUTH!” because authoritarians will have to invent it.
Black and white thinking comes from an overactive amygdala. Once it goes nuts you start believing there is only one side to every story, TRUTH! and LIES. And of course OTHERS, THEM are LYING to you. You have always, always been righteous and you’re under attack because you won’t give in. You’re the hero of your own thriller/slasher/horror/Left Behind drama.
LanceThruster
@Violet:
His security contingent was massive. No one was allowed to exit the building nor could anybody go near the walkway corridor where his fleet of black SUV’s were parked. The only thing he didn’t do was do that profile pose like Il Duce.
Cacti
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
I’m sure you’ll be surprised to know that the inaugural recipient of First Look Media’s new grant program to “Promote and Protect Free Speech” is…
David Miranda, GG’s partner, to help pay his legal fees in his document muling case in the UK.
Elizabelle
@Dog On Porch:
Have not followed anything on this thread, but got to tell you that I love your commenting moniker.
And that reminds me that I miss Judas Escargot. Who might be here under a different nym, or might have wandered on …
Violet
@LanceThruster: Did you also buy your duct tape and plastic sheeting like a good little Murkin? I know I did!
Actually, I needed some duct tape for real around that time and couldn’t find any. So annoying.
Corner Stone
@chopper:
I think that’s really insensitive. I may be an asshole, but the widespread claim, and reality, of alcoholism in Native American individuals is a really vicious slur and trope.
I hope you reconsider this kind of insensitive, and disgusting, racist epithet.
Schlemizel
This is just too precious to wait for an open thread:
I would like to start a kickstarter to buy Ralphie a 1961 Corvair.
Elizabelle
New thread, perhaps?
Cannot get excited about Edward Snowden or other dudebros. Sorry.
Admit it. You knew I was shallow to begin with …
raven
@Schlemizel: Fuck an open thread.
Botsplainer
Jeremy Scahill – ROFLMAO.
Fucking lunatic, if you ask me.
I’ll add this- I know at least one American citizen who is in a role of active collaboration with Hamas. I also know for certain that he is informing for two separate alphabet agencies. I suspect that at least two others I know are on the dirty side of the divide.
I’m one guy in a relatively nondescript place. Multiply it out to heavier concentration of people, and it bears watching.
raven
@Elizabelle: Derail it, who cares? My sewer is just as interesting.
Keith G
@Mnemosyne: Well, your quote, when read in the context of the full article goes no further in supporting your claim. It was a quick Google-licious effort to find your missing support, but it was inept – as are your assertions.
‘
I am sure that just like Obama, Snowden has myopic defenders who can find no fault in a hero that they need to believe in. I am not a part of either camp.
Cacti
@Schlemizel:
Ralph’s favorite candidate was last seen with noted anti-hispanic bigot, Steve King in Iowa, nearly spitting out his hamburger and running away when he heard that the young Hispanic female who wanted to ask him a question was a DREAMer.
Elizabelle
@Schlemizel:
Weirdly enough, I just encountered Saint Ralph online a few hours ago.
Was perusing Rick Perlstein’s online end notes, and came to a link to a newspaper story about Billy Carter’s gas station in Plains having an explosion —
I know — we all remember where we were that day —
and it was mentioned that Ralph Nader was in town, umpiring a baseball game, although his real reason had been meeting up with President Jimmy Carter. And he watched some of the fire burning out from the press room, if memory serves?
Elizabelle
@raven:
Tell me more about your sewer.
chopper
@Corner Stone:
Hahah! You’re clever, for a pathetic drunk.
Elizabelle
Is it Shark Week yet?
Corner Stone
@chopper: After all the things John Cole has gone through, the heartbreaking stuff he’s detailed…this is the kind of person you want to be here?
I’m not overly religious, but I hope something good comes into your heart.
LT
@chopper:
Is this weird *drunk-shaming* (not saying target drinks or not – have no clue) – a real, defended thing on Balloon Juice now?
John Cole?
LanceThruster
@Violet:
I put together the ‘kits’ to distribute to the various depts with duct tape and sheeting as per the boss.
raven
@Elizabelle: We planned, re-fied, and prepared for an addition. On the second dat of construction we hit the mis-marked city sewer that, known by anyone, ran right next to our house. The city denied responsibility but agreed to move it on their timeline. It’s been really complex ( and expensive) but we cleared all the hurdles and look to it being started in a couple of weeks. It entails putting in 300 ft of new line 18 ft deep in the middle of the street we live on. Like I said, we are very fortunate they are going to do it.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Elizabelle: Turns out it is next week. Not this week. I was wrong. Sorry.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I forgive you.
Cacti
@LT:
Daaaaaaddddy! They’re being mean to us!!!
JPL
@raven: So when do you remove the deck again? Congrats
raven
@LT: People write what they want to. What’s Cole got to do with it?
Violet
@Botsplainer:
. Yep.
EthylEster
@askew: linky?
White Trash Liberal
I like this story at the Intercept. The slant is certainly civil libertarian, with plenty of opinion platform for ACLU lawyering, but that’s not bad in this context. The research is good, and I think it backs its fundamental premise well: the watch list has expanded under Obama in multiple ways.
It’s a tool that doesn’t appear to provide a practical good but is a near and dear “data boondoggle” that wows the NatSec investors. And yes, it appears to overwhelmingly impact the Muslim and Sikh communities.
The Muslim community in San Diego is close knit. They loan, employ, teach and care for one another on a deep level… As have other migrant communities. A watch list would become a dragnet because of that cultural bond.
I don’t see the benefit and think it cheapens us as a nation.
A little more of what Scahill is writing and a little less histrionics. I hope there’s follow ups that dig deeper into the data and build a case for just how invasive and arbitrary this form of law enforcement is. If only PRISM could have been handled this way.
Corner Stone
@EthylEster: That’s been asked, several times now. Commenter askew has nothing else to say on the matter. Apparently.
EthylEster
@Elizabelle: I haven’t thought of him (her) for years!
raven
@JPL: can’t seem to reply
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@EthylEster: I believe that he led the other snails to French restaurants.
LT
@raven: What’s Cole got to do with the subject of drunk-shaming?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@LT: You brought him up.
Heliopause
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
I’m going to pass some supersecret info on to you, but please, this is strictly on background.
There have been two stories published based on info from the alleged “second leaker”. Greenwald was not on the byline of either.
John Cook is editor-in-chief of The Intercept. Presumably, he has worked closely with the authors of the stories, and was reported by the Huffington Post as having established the new 30 minute limit.
Greenwald’s relevance to this story ranges somewhere between non-existent and merely tangential, but your clownish obsession with his supervillain capabilities is certainly instructive.
LT
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Wow! How would I know if you hadn’t told me?
The question was rhetorical.
EthylEster
@Corner Stone: I can’t find the tantrum to which he is referring. Also I can’t find any way to do advance searches in google. where are they hiding that feature? or did it get eliminated?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@LT: One can’t really be sure how goldfish like your mental capacities are. I decided to play it safe.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Damn. You seem pretty cranky. Into your 3rd day of drinking to celebrate your 50th?
You’re hammered, aren’t you? It’s ok. You can tell us how much of a drunk you are.
Elizabelle
@raven:
Yeesh. Some fishing may take your mind off that. Although the yard will eventually be spectacular.
Violet
@LanceThruster: I’m sure you felt a lot safer knowing that everyone had duct tape and plastic sheeting at the ready. Hoping there were no serial killers in your workplace.
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): What did the poor goldfish do to earn such a slanderous statement?
Corner Stone
@EthylEster: I think commenter askew is a female, but I may be wrong. I’m just making a guess after she drunkenly confessed her hot pants lovin’ for Gov Dan “The Man” O’Malley.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Corner Stone: I had a few drinks on the 2d, but nothing since then. Thanks for asking. Drinking a Seagram’s diet ginger ale right now.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Next week for Shark Week.
Marking my calendar.
Last night was Jaws back to back on AMC.
Corner Stone
@Violet: Damn! Lots of drunken asshole commenters around this place! Lay off the sauce, sister!
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Are there a lot of bars on 2nd Street where you are in Wiscy? Is it like 6th St in Austin?
Ha! Wiscy! Yeah. You’re fucking drunk.
LT
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): It’s hard to stay in character playing “Mr Reasonable” when it’s obvious you’re the farthest thing from it, huh?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Corner Stone: You would be thinking of State Street in Madison. Beyond that, whatever.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@LT: Quoi?
Dog On Porch
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): And to think, too, that you did all that while sitting with a stick up your ass.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Dog On Porch: Not the whole time.
Violet
@Corner Stone: Sauce? Not sure what you mean.
Corner Stone
@Violet: Sauce. The Sauce! Sauce? You know, “the sauce”?
Damn, you’re even further along on the sauce than I thought.
LT
@Corner Stone: Get that man a thesaucerus.
Violet
@Corner Stone: Chocolate sauce? Like on ice cream?
Corner Stone
@Violet: Ah, sugar crash. Classic cravings sign of someone on the sauce.
Violet
@Corner Stone: Mint sauce? Like with lamb chops?
Elie
@Mnemosyne:
I hear that!
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Violet: Lamb Chop? The puppet?
Elie
@Elizabelle:
Sign me up — definitely watching! Heh
Corner Stone
@Violet: Man, now a protein craving? Damn. The sauce craving must be strong on you.
Violet
@Corner Stone: Still not sure what you’re talking about. I’m not craving sauce of any kind. Haven’t had any sauce of any kind today either. Haven’t had dinner yet. Red snapper is what’s for dinner but don’t think there will be sauce with that either.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Violet: If you really aren’t playing, sauce in this context is booze.
Another Holocene Human (now with new computer)
loltweets
Corner Stone
@Violet: Ah. The shame spiral. And denial phase.
It’s ok. We’re here for you. We’re here for you.
Corner Stone
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer): LOL! That is just…ha! Just so LOL!!
Violet
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I’m aware. Thanks. Haven’t had any of that either. I rarely drink alcohol of any kind. Almost never during the week.
Violet
@Corner Stone: That is so sweet of you. Of course you’re here for me. Would expect nothing less. What a dear.
Corner Stone
@Violet: Hey, at least I believed in you enough to just be messing around. Others…hmmm…weren’t so sure.
Remember that. I believed in you, even when you may not have believed in me.
Violet
@Corner Stone: Honey, why would you think I didn’t believe in you? I’m crushed.
Cervantes
@Dog On Porch: The hope is fine, I share it — but do you see that day approaching or receding?
different-church-lady
@Kristin:
In fact… next time… they’ll GO STRAIGHT TO THEIR ROOM WITHOUT ANY SUPPER!
different-church-lady
@Mnemosyne:
I took it as very much the opposite: someone who isn’t Snowden is passing info out. Therefore any skepticism you have regarding Snowden’s filtering and motivations doesn’t apply.
different-church-lady
@White Trash Liberal: I bet you complain about the lack of plausibility in horror film plots too.
Cervantes
@Keith G: By, not over, if I were you.
different-church-lady
@Mandalay: I dunno about you, but the things that’s really stumping me here is the idea that the guy who’s sworn to throw every bombshell he can at the NSA actually has a sort of Marquess of Queensberry arrangement with them.
different-church-lady
@White Trash Liberal: You actually read the article? What the hell are you trying to do, ruin this perfectly good flamewar?
Cervantes
@Another Holocene Human (now with new computer):
One can have a claim but not assert it.
It’s not complicated.
central texas
“which contains info on 680K people, 40% of whom allegedly have no ties to a known terrorist group.”
I think I would like that better as: “40%of whom have no alleged ties”. I seriously doubt the the other 60% are all dedicated jihadies given the the revenge motives, intimidation attempts, stupidity, and ignorance so common among those who are free to add names with no consequences. (to themselves)
Cervantes
@Corner Stone: I was surprised by that one, too.
LT
@different-church-lady:
How obtuse do you have to be to say something like this? Do you think some of the most celebrated journalists in history – Bernstein and Woodward, just for two examples – were considered polite little kittens by government? Jesus, what idiocy.
And the fact that the government backtracked, apologized, and said it was all an accident – because they KNOW they have, or may have, fucked themselves with any number of journalists, period … do you have ZERO receptors?
Corner Stone
@Cervantes: Honestly? I’ve kind of given up trying to parse the screeds laid down by Another Holocene Human here.
It hurts my brain to try and decipher what AHH (1) is advocating for or against, (2) what perspective AHH is advocating from or against and (3) what the fuck point AHH is trying to make in AHH’s endless repetitive paragraphs of incomprehensible nonsense.
There’s some aspect of union solidarity in there somewhere, which I am all about, but then I get lost in some other screed about something or other and something something where that one guy did something and then those other people ate fruit and that pissed off a bunch of some or some others. But those people didn’t know that the other some peoples were about to protest something else. And that really got the backs up of those other people I mentioned 8 paragraphs ago!
So yeah, argle bargle mcargle. Those things and those people.
You’ve been told, whitey.
different-church-lady
@LT: You appear to be saying two, and perhaps three contradictory things at once, so I have no idea how to answer.
All I know is the guy who publicly wants people to believe he’s at war with the NSA apparently believed he had some kind of gentleman’s agreement with said agency in private.
If Mark Felt had gone to another set of reporters, I doubt we would have seen Woodward and Bernstein complain about it publicly. But apparently today it’s all Ralph Wolf/Sam Sheepdog — no punching and share the thermos during the lunch break.
Corner Stone
@different-church-lady:
This is stupid.
They had a story, asked the govt for comment/whatever, and the govt called up another outlet and said, “Oh hey! Go to print with this, dog”.
Your contention is stupid bullshit.
Corner Stone
@Violet:
Once went to a birthday dinner for the dad of my good friend. Around 70 yrs old or so. He looked right at the (maybe) 18 yr old waitress and straight faced asked her, “How’s your snapper?”
I almost fell down, because I was on the sauce, and my friend’s dad continued, “Is it fresh?”
She turned a brilliant shade of red, probably because by then I was doing little kick turn circles on the carpet like I was one of the Three Stooges.
“Wooo Wooo Wooo! Nyuck Nyuck Nyuck! Hhhrrr! Doink!!”
Cervantes
@Corner Stone:
I see that, too — and appreciate it.
AnonPhenom
Let us know when you find out what kind of countertops his kitchen has.
Rex Everything
@Corner Stone: Word! Betty: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvKJ8_7vBxs
Donald
The Israel/Palestine threads were intelligent, but this one is more the type I associate with this blog. Front posts–worth reading. Anything involving Greenwald or Snowden or Manning,even tangentially–skip the thread.