. @GovJayNixon just confirmed that the State Police & Federal Authorities are going to relieve St. Louis County PD of their duties here.
— Shaun King (@ShaunKing) August 14, 2014
Good riddance. Take your LRAD 500X deafening “crowd control” toy with you when you go.
SWAT overlooks protestors in #Ferguson. They've all moved to sidewalk. pic.twitter.com/peY5cOVBZl
— Ryan J. Reilly (@ryanjreilly) August 13, 2014
Goblue72
White America needs a collective punch in the neck.
Betty Cracker
Excellent first step. Now they need to back law enforcement off peaceful protests and start investigating not only the kid’s shooting but the response to the community’s reaction. It was a national disgrace.
ShadeTail
No fucking way. Confiscate it and destroy it before they can take it home.
Mustang Bobby
Any truth to the rumor that Rick Perry’s already put in a bid for it?
Mike in NC
That photo could have been taken in Baghdad a few years ago. Makes you wonder how many of our cops used to work for Blackwater and other mercenary outfits.
Tim F.
@ShadeTail: Nah, I hope they get so frustrated that they didn’t get to turn it up to eleven that they nuke each others’ eardrums for fun.
Belafon
(Copied from previous thread because I think it bears repeating):
Steve King: Since Ferguson Rioters Are All Of The Same ‘Continental Origin,’ Racial Profiling Is Not A Concern:
PaulW
Um, the state police could be using the same type of equipment…
the thing is, we’re hoping the state police/National Guard patrols are going to be better trained to handle / defuse protest gatherings.
Cacti
Ferguson’s mayor on TV saying he “can’t second guess these officers”.
Of course you can second guess them, you tool bag, you’re the fucking mayor. Not to mention, any American citizen has the right to second guess the actions of law enforcement agencies.
When did greater St. Louis turn into Moscow on the Mississippi.
Elizabelle
@Betty Cracker:
It is a national disgrace.
Violet
@ShadeTail: Yeah no kidding. Why do they get to keep that thing?
Mike in NC
@Mustang Bobby: We mock Rick Perry here, but if he could figure out how to channel white racial resentment against the brown people crossing the border, and the inner city black people complaining about their kids being shot down in the streets, he could become the GOP frontrunner for 2016. He just might not be bright enough…
dmsilev
@Belafon: He means that the human species all are descended from Africans, since that’s where we evolved, right?
(It’s Steve King. Of course not)
Belafon
@dmsilev: His statement even defies the Christian creation story.
D.N. Nation
This isn’t a police department. It’s a white-supremacist criminal enterprise. RICO the whole lot of them- arrest the officers, arrest the police chief, confiscate their equipment, confiscate their homes, seize their financial assets. Every single one of them should be sitting in a jail cell. With the threat of their families next unless they talk.
Goblue72
@Tim F.: The pigs would just go on disability and vest their over inflated pig pensions.
Rather see them stripped of their income & pensions & personal assets to the point their grandchildren won’t even have any hope of attending college.
If they want to act like crackers they can go live with them.
Cacti
Also too, where the hell is Claire McCaskill in all of this?
Missouri’s milquetoast Dems are flipping the bird to the African American voters they depend on.
Goblue72
@D.N. Nation: Welcome to America. You’ve just described the average police department in the United States.
Ferguson isn’t the exception – it’s the rule.
cermet
I never understood but now realize the separation that the City of Baltimore and its surrounding county have going for them. The city is independent of the county and has its own police. This protects not only the city – SWAT formations are almost unheard of there -but helps the county police from becoming polarized. More cities need this type of system
Gin & Tonic
@Belafon: I’d actually agree with him. I think they are all from the continent of North America.
BGinCHI
Cue Fox on how “the police are the real victims here.”
Belafon
@Cacti: From what she was tweeting last night, she’s been making phone calls between the governor, the various mayors and PDs, and informing Obama.
Davis X. Machina
@D.N. Nation: After due process, of course…..
Goblue72
@BGinCHI: You can get carpal tunnel syndrome from pulling the trigger on black kids so often. I knew a cop who needed rotator cuff surgery from overuse of his nightstick.
Pigging is a tough job, yo.
RSR
“LRAD XTREME” really?
LRAD 500x Operation Zones panel –
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_0y4Bbr9j_JY/S7spBHBnRYI/AAAAAAAABvk/0_dzMQ1HXLQ/s800/LRAD_500X_rear1.jpg
Davis X. Machina
@Belafon: Not good enough. I want her on the street shouting ‘Fight the Power!’. That would be an enormous help.
BGinCHI
@Goblue72: I’m guessing Fox and the right are now going to pivot to “gov’t overreach taking over local law enforcement.”
They WILL find an us/them angle that works for them that avoids too much overt racism.
Gin & Tonic
For the ex-miltary types here, this HuffPo story has a very clear close-up picture of that St. Louis County cop who was sitting on top of the armored vehicle with a tripod-mounted gun of some sort. Probably clear enough to identify the weapon if you’re knowledgeable.
RSR
And what looks to be an LRAD 300 on a separate vehicle. Can’t haw too much hearing-loss-causing weaponry to turn on your own citizens:
https://twitter.com/Green_Footballs/status/499608263294337026
PIGL
@D.N. Nation: Absolutely, this.
Bobby Thomson
@Cacti:
Voting is still legal in Missouri, right? That should be Ferguson’s soon-to-be-Ex-Mayor.
Tim F.
@Goblue72: No offense but you sound like a spoof.
scav
@Cacti: Mere citizens and constituents, however, can be pre-judged as untrustworthy, negligible and deserving of whatever gets dished out by those that must not be second-guessed.
RSR
@Belafon: OMFG
amplifying that
Belafon
Can’t watch the video at work, but there might be video of Brown’s shooting (from DailyKos). If nothing else, it’s another witness.
raven
Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.) said Wednesday evening that she was in contact with local officials and the Department of Justice Civil Rights Devision in order to “de escalate the tense and unacceptable situation” in Ferguson. She is also expected to meet with Attorney General Eric Holder on Thursday.
shelley
Pfffft. I’m starting to think these cops got their jobs thru a prize in a Cracker Jack box.
shortstop
@Davis X. Machina: Help, no. But you have to admit it would be entertaining as hell to watch.
JPL
@Cacti: The mayor was on MSNBC and wanted to correct Washington Post’s reporting. The Post said the city had three black police officers and in fact, they have five.
raven
@Belafon: What a bunch of bullshit all the “warnings” are. Dude shot the kid, what the fuck is it going to look like?
Davis X. Machina
@shortstop: I so want this to become all about a bunch of politicians….
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@JPL: Well, shit. That makes it alright then. No problems here. Move along.
Violet
RSR
@Gin & Tonic: What are those two little button head devices under the barrel, I wonder? Mounts of some sort for some other ordnance?
Violet
@JPL: That’s all about undermining the Washington Post’s reporting, especially Wesley Lowery who was arrested last night. “He can’t even get basic facts right! How can he be trusted to get anything right?”
Karen in GA
@JPL:
What? Oh, well, whoops. Never mind then. Everyone pack up and go home! What else is on?
raven
@Gin & Tonic: It’s an AR-15 with a scope or some permutation thereof/ It’s a pretty small magazine, probably 10 rounds. I’m sure it has some other fancy numerology but that’s basically what it is.
raven
dupe
feebog
This is a majority black community that is controlled by a white minority. Three black officers out of a police force of over 50? When this is over, a massive, and I do mean massive voter registration effort needs to be launched. You don’t get this kind of government without voter suppression and apathy.
Edit; I see the Mayor claims there are five. So less than 10% of your force is African American in a majority black community and you want to make a point of it?
ET
From what I have translated from what I have read, there seems to be no confidence in the local police by pretty much everyone – citizens, feds, state – pushing them aside is the best option. Them staying is not doing anyone (including them) any favors.
From the citizens point of view getting them out may go a long way to calming things down a bit. Right now local cops seem to be the driving force for the problems – from being the focus as well as their very poor response making it worse. You can’t solve a problem with the people who created (and perpetuate) it.
I read something that indicated there have been issues about this local force for awhile with reports on the federal or state level. The racial make up and what I think amounted to bad training, meant that they may not have been all that professional and may not have even been seen in a favorable way by their law enforcement peers either.
Bigotry + possible questionable recruitment + bad training = Ferguson
raven
@RSR: It’s a bipod.
Davis X. Machina
@shelley: These people are so in over their head — and the water’s not that deep to start with.
It’s too bad they’re lethally armed, so they’re a threat to everyone around them, but a threat to the Republic?
Honest to god, on the Falls Road, or the Shankhill Road, these guys would last 20 minutes.
Gin & Tonic
@RSR: Sorry, know nothing whatsoever about firearms.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Belafon: I don’t think there’s any video of the shooting. What she has is video shot afterwards, including the police refusing to let Michael Brown’s relatives get close to the body.
Gin & Tonic
@raven: So those are just folded-up feet to rest the thing down if it’s not tripod-mounted?
Greg
@RSR:
That’s just a fold-down bipod. The button heads are the feet for propping the barrel up.
RSR
@raven: Thanks. Didn’t think of that, what with the tripod mount.
Gin & Tonic
@feebog: I posted in another thread that I read, I think in WSJ, that Ferguson has somewhere around 15k residents of voting age, and only about 1500 voted in the last municipal election.
sparrow
@cermet: This is rather an aside, but I always assumed the separation of county vs city here in Baltimore was a way for the suburbs to keep their own tax money without it going to “those people” in the inner city. In the meanwhile of course they still depend on all kinds of city services and don’t pay for them. It would sure help Baltimore to have some share of the wealthy tax base just outside that arbitrary line, esp. in the north. That said, I have had nothing but good experiences with the Baltimore PD, and have noticed that the street patrols are pretty diverse (lots of women as well).
SiubhanDuinne
Just heard (local NPR) that POTUS is going to speak “sometime in the next hour” about both Iraq and Ferguson situations.
Belafon
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): OK. Thanks. She’s at least another witness.
Belafon
@SiubhanDuinne: Now he has to decide which one is worth sending troops to. It’s sad that I can think of that joke.
RareSanity
@ShadeTail:
Not gonna happen.
Much like the most of the people causing havoc in the Middle East, and various points around the globe, our federal government provides them with this equipment.
It’s really one the few things that no one can argue that the U.S. Government does EXTREMELY well…acquire (from government contractors) and distribute all manner of military equipment and arms.
Be it a county police department or “resistance fighters” all over the globe…you get some military hardware, and you get some military hardware, everyone gets some military hardware!
SiubhanDuinne
@Belafon:
Ho-lee fuuuuuuuuuuck.
I need a whole new vocabulary. I don’t have words any more to describe Steve King and his ilk.*
*(Okay, I’m keeping “ilk.”)
Amir Khalid
@feebog:
Five black cops instead of three, out of — is it 55 now, or still 53? — is a whopping 67% more than previously reported. Even if it’s fewer than one out of ten in a town that’s two-thirds black.
I was rummaging around on YouTube and came across this song. As timely as ever.
The Ancient Randonneur
Where are all those armed posse members that saved Cliven Bundy? Why aren’t they in Ferguson protecting the citizens from the jack booted thugs of the government?
scav
@sparrow: There are only about 41 Independent Cities (no county govt in the US, most in VA). There’s a growing trend to merge city-county govts to supposedly save on taxes / remove an extraneous layer, but there are so many local variations in how it’s down that I’d hesitate to draw conclusions. These sort of arrangements can likely be well- or poorly- managed, for good or less admirable purposes much like all the other forms of governance we’ve got running around the nation.
OT damn! of all weekends to be graced with the strafing for show by the City of Chicago. Always hate August here.
Villago Delenda Est
@Belafon: King is unspeakable slime. His presence in the House of Representatives damages the institution, and the damage compounds every day this vile sack of shit is present in it.
Villago Delenda Est
@The Ancient Randonneur: They’ve all submitted their CVs to the Ferguson PD and are hoping for interviews and tryouts on the streets of Ferguson.
Mr. Twister
i know Huffpost isn’t a favorite around here but this is good: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/14/media-black-victims_n_5673291.html
SiubhanDuinne
@Belafon:
It was pretty much the first thing that came to my mind, too. Sadly.
raven
@Gin & Tonic: No, it’s to steady the weapon when you are lying on your stomach. Without one you put your lead elbow on the ground and steady the weapon with your hand.
me
@Mr. Twister: Lets sprinkle some crack on him and get out of here.
raven
@scav: Athens is a combined city/county now. It’s Athens-Clarke County. Still two police forces, 3 if you count UGA.
ShadeTail
@RareSanity: Of course it’s not going to happen. But it should, and I felt Tim F was being way too lenient by saying they should take it with them when they go. The more we get it out there to protest this militarization of our police force, the better.
Villago Delenda Est
@raven: Concur. Wonder what that stuff under the barrel is for? Camera?
Why is it mounted on a tripod? It’s being used as a sniper weapon, perhaps? An AR-15? And why does that cop look like an infantryman?
This militarization shit is totally out of control.
Violet
raven
@Villago Delenda Est: It’s actually not mounted on the tripod it’s resting on a lamb’s wool cradle. Those weapons have a gazillion add-ons. The whole “sniper” thing is a bit out of control here. I know people will have a fucking fit but this is what a sniper if
An AR 15 would not be the weapon of choice for a sniper but you certainly could use it for that. Everyone wants to rave about cammie’s, drones and APC’s so have at it. I guess it’s all minor in the larger scheme.
raven
@Villago Delenda Est: It’s actually not mounted on the tripod it’s resting on a lamb’s wool cradle. Those weapons have a gazillion add-ons. The whole “sniper” thing is a bit out of control here. I know people will have a fucking fit but this is what a sniper if
An AR 15 would not be the weapon of choice for a sniper but you certainly could use it for that. Everyone wants to rave about cammie’s, drones and APC’s so have at it. I guess it’s all minor in the larger scheme.
scav
@SiubhanDuinne: Miami-Dade’s another — I think there were rumblings about converting Buffalo NY for tax purposes. They’ve sometimes got a township layer there as well as the city and county levels. Can actually see the impact in where people choose to live if I remember. Amazing the sheer variety of governance types that exist here.
M31
hmmmmm, 3 black officers, 5 black officers, it’s the 3/5 compromise! USA USA USA
Mandalay
@Cacti:
Well…
[1] She issued this statement on Sunday morning:
[2] From yesterday:
[3] And this:
What more should she do?
Maybe so, but it’s a bit unfair to single out McCaskill. Jay Nixon is the one who really needs to raise his game – he’s been AWOL.
Tone In DC
This sentiment has been noted by some commenters and FPers, but I had to throw it in here.
http://wonkette.com/557093/wapo-reporter-arrested-in-ferguson-invites-joe-scarborough-to-drink-a-starbucks-cup-of-STFU
We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.
Mr. Twister
Over at LGF a commenter said that the WaPo reporter was interviewed by Roland Martin yesterday morning. He said there were videos of the shooting, but no one wanted to come forward and give them to the authorities.
Anyone else heard this ?
raven
@Mr. Twister: The fishing guy?
skerry
@Belafon: I just watched the video you linked to. It is a news report from KMOV (St. Louise TV). They show an interview with the new witness (a young adult woman) and video taken after the shooting (with Mike Brown’s body covered by a gray oval!?). The witness says she saw the confrontation at the door of the police car (SUV?) and began to pull out her phone to record it when she heard the first gunshot. She then saw Mike Brown move away from the officer, saw the officer get out of his car, and saw multiple shots fired until he was killed. The last shots were fired after Mike Brown turned to face the officer with his hands in the air.
p.a.
@cermet: are county police the norm? I’m not sure I’ve ever heard of them before. Maybe because here in New England the states are so small all that’s needed are the locals and the state police. I’ve heard of Boston Metro Police but thought that was just a distinction between them, the housing police, MBTA police etc. Are they a county police?
raven
@p.a.: Not rare at all.
Mr. Twister
@raven: Ha ha, yep. Used to go Largemouth fishing quite a bit in my younger days.
raven
@p.a.:
SiubhanDuinne
POTUS in 2 minutes
http://m.whitehouse.gov/live/president-obama-makes-statement-22
SatanicPanic
@Mr. Twister: If I had video, I wouldn’t give it to the police. I’d post it on the internet, then drop the phone off at the DoJ.
Missouri Buckeye
@Violet: Which station?
burnspbesq
@Cacti:
Approximately 1830. St. Louis has always been a Southern city in everything but geography. During the Civil War, both the Union and Confederate flags had a star for Missouri.
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: That feed was useless.
ShadeTail
@p.a.: It depends a lot on the locale. Here in the San Jose CA area, each city has its own police force, and there’s also the county Sheriff, and they’re pretty much interchangeable. Let’s say something happens in, for example, Cupertino. If it’s big enough, you’ll have cars from both the Cupertino PD and the county Sheriff, and there will be no distinction between the various responders. They’re the same department, for all practical purposes, and follow the same chain on command while on the scene. If it’s smaller, requiring only a single car, then it could be either Cupertino PD or the Sheriff who responds, and again there’s no distinction between them in terms of authority or chain of command.
They’ve been working like this for a long time, and it’s a pretty well-oiled machine at this point.
Missouri Buckeye
@p.a.: It’s akin to a county sheriff’s department. We just don’t call it that.
It’s also due to the plethora of small municipalities we have in St. Louis County, though there are still parts that are unincorporated (I live in one of those). Many of those have small departments for their own law enforcement, but call on the County for big stuff.
burnspbesq
@D.N. Nation:
What other fantasies would you like to share with us?
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Worked perfectly for me.
skerry
Anyone else think President Obama didn’t look real good physically?
Violet
@Missouri Buckeye: Haven’t any idea. You’ll have to tweet Wesley Lowery to find out.
Missouri Buckeye
@burnspbesq: Except that St. Louis was a hub of Unionist support, mostly due to the large number of German immigrants who had no love for the slave system. During the war, St. Louis also became a hub for former slaves.
Missouri on the other hand was totally divided (the Governor was a Confederate sympathizer) and the war here was essentially a guerrilla war. If the Confederates had fought this way all over the country, the war would probably never have ended.
There’s a Wikipedia article on St. Louis in the Civil War. Go read it.
Belafon
@skerry: Thanks.
SiubhanDuinne
@skerry:
I didn’t think he looked sick or anything, but he is definitely showing the aging effects of stress — as most Presidents do.
burnspbesq
@Villago Delenda Est:
And yet, he’s been elected to Congress six times. Go figure.
scav
@p.a.: In New England, Township govt. because it apples to all the land in the state and acts like city governments elsewhere can manage many of the roles done by county governments elsewhere (because municipal govt control/admin does not cover all land, the county generally intervenes). Elsewhere in the US, townships sometimes fill a role as municipality (OH for example), sometimes really only organize school districts, sometimes mostly organize legal land descriptions or barely even exist. Townships are even more inconsistent than Independent cities. Growing up in CA I barely recognized they existed as such until I moved eastward.
burnspbesq
@Missouri Buckeye:
Did that yesterday. I also know my in-laws, who are of that fine, upstanding German St. Louis stock. I stand by my assessment.
Violet
@skerry: I didn’t think he looked rested. Probably a late night last night at that party the cable busybodies have been on about. When he shifted from Iraq to Ferguson I thought he sounded angry. In his calm, midwestern style of being angry, of course.
SiubhanDuinne
@Violet:
Oh yes, he was angry. And did you get just a little sense that he maybe ripped Governor Jay Nixon a new one during their phone conversation?
Cacti
@Missouri Buckeye:
This.
Confederate partisans even elected a shadow government during the war years, who passed a secession declaration.
One could fairly argue that the American Civil War began with bleeding Kansas in 1854, rather than Fort Sumter in 1861.
Origuy
@scav:
California abolished townships decades ago. I haven’t been able to find out exactly when, but it was before I moved here in 1978. Surprised me; my parents had been active in township government in Indiana.
Cacti
ACLU of Missouri files a sunshine lawsuit against Ferguson PD for release of the official incident report in the Brown shooting.
Link to complaint.
Violet
@SiubhanDuinne: I didn’t get that impression, but did notice he went out of his way to say what a good Governor and person Jay Nixon is. Thought he was propping him up a bit with Democratic voters who are probably pissed as hell at him.
another lurker
@BGinCHI: I’m guessing Fox and the right are now going to pivot to “gov’t overreach taking over local law enforcement.”
Under Missouri law, the police departments in both Kansas City and St. Louis are state agencies. They are accountable to boards of police commissioners appointed by the governor. The taking over happened 80 years ago.
Cacti
@Violet:
Nixon has been pretty timid thus far, but his relieving the St. Louis county police from any further enforcement role was a good start.
The DOJ has announced a wide-ranging investigation of everything that has taken place this week, and I have a feeling that the St. Louis county cops are about to get chewed up and spit out.
Ferguson and St. Louis county police also have the NAACP and ACLU breathing down their necks now. This corrupt little racist fiefdom has kicked a hornet’s nest.
SiubhanDuinne
@Violet:
Yes, I got that too, and thought for the same reason. I would have to re-watch the clip, or maybe read a transcript, ’cause I don’t remember anything specific, but I just had a fleeting sense that Obama might have torn into Nixon a little bit. (Immediately after which, presumably, came the announcement that the state would be taking over policing duties from Ferguson/St Louis, TYVM.) I could be reading it entirely wrong.
Violet
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m not sure we’ll know. I do think someone must have leaned on Nixon to get him to do something. He’d been pretty MIA until last night. No idea who did the leaning.
SiubhanDuinne
@Violet:
Well, as long as someone did, I guess it doesn’t matter whether it was POTUS, or Nixon’s wife, or the little cartoon conscience on his shoulder.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Violet: Nixon may very well have been waiting until it was obvious to any sentient being that the locals could not handle the job to avoid the perception that it was a big government takeover. If so, It had to be carefully timed – when it was obvious that the locals couldn’t or wouldn’t do it right and before anyone else got killed.
scav
@Violet: Oh he is threading a very fine line amidst blame-traps and among all the parties involved and the free-range media bull-horns with agendas. One he is undoubtedly structurally unable to maintain because of the demands / expectations placed upon him and doesn’t he know it by now. He knows he’ll get hauled over the coals from all directions no matter what he says. Pessimist that I am, I’m rather slightly surprised that he and so many govt officials have even deigned to explicitly voice the possibility that the badged boys in cammo have possibly gone a tad overboard and are contributing to the situation in a non-positive fashion. I think I heard a bit of tetch too, the sort where if it was your parents, you’d anticipate getting yelled at later in a less public setting.
Violet
@scav:
Yeah, I heard it too. That’s what I meant by “angry in his calm, midwestern style.” Maybe you have to grow up with that kind of “angry” to see it but it was clear as day to me.
Mike in NC
Per USA Today, in 2013 the Pentagon transferred almost half a BILLION dollars worth of surplus gear to police departments nationwide. Everything from paperclips to armored cars.
Goblue72
@Tim F.: what’s wrong with holding cops accountable? Every time a cop violates someone’s civil rights in this country, we slap the cop on the wrist. They never get punished anywhere close to what a civilian would suffer – let alone a civilian of color.
Hit them where it hurts – their pocketbook. Put them in penury. That wouldn’t bring Michael Brown back but it’s a start.
Mandalay
I have mixed feelings, but the idea of requiring cops to wear live cameras while they work is interesting. A (very small) police force in California is already doing it with impressive results:
Just as giving cops camouflage pants and night goggles can alter their behavior for the worse, perhaps making them wear cameras can alter their behavior for the better.
I’m sure that if all the cops in Ferguson had been wearing video cameras in the past few days they’d have a shitload of explaining to do.
SatanicPanic
@Mandalay: Why mixed feelings?
Glocksman
@Mandalay:
I was just talking on the phone with a buddy of mine who’s a self described redneck that’s fairly conservative*, and even he thinks the cops in Ferguson are out of control and believes its crazy that we dress cops in military fatigues instead of blue serge and Sam Browne belts.
He’s ex military and said that dressing them like soldiers will give them a military mindset instead of a ‘Sheriff Andy Taylor’ outlook on the job.
*His main departure from conservative orthodoxy is health care. We both agree that national single payer is the way to go.
shortstop
@Davis X. Machina: No, nor do I. I’ll just imagine it in my little mind, then, and have a private giggle.
shortstop
@Gin & Tonic: Well, around 14,000 of them will vote in the next one. The challenge will be keeping up the momentum.
Mandalay
@SatanicPanic:
Because video evidence is so easily doctored. For example, a cop could be attacked, a struggle follows, the cops pulls his gun, the attacker surrenders, then the cop executes the attacker. Well if the video evidence conveniently only shows the initial attack and the struggle, then not only is the cop exonerated, but the cop becomes a hero.
People may come up with technical arguments about why this could never happen, but as long as the cops control their video evidence I’m wary.
Regardless, I’d also like to see cops ending up in court when they illegally order people to turn off their cameras for no good reason, as allegedly happened in Ferguson last night. Pigs will fly first of course.
different-church-lady
@Belafon:
Shutting his goddamned racist crackhead fucking piehole forever might be an even better way for him to phrase that.
dww44
@skerry: Yep, sadly I must agree.
different-church-lady
@Mandalay: I agree — it might lead to temporary improvement, but eventually corrupt cops would be able to figure out a way to game that system.
Corrupt (anyone) will eventually figure out a way to game any system anyone comes up with. It will always be the better mousetraps/better mice cycle.
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it, just means we shouldn’t view it as a foolproof fix for the problem.
Glocksman
@Gin & Tonic:
It looks like an AR clone with a stainless barrel, a combo laser and ACOG sight, and a folded up bipod, along with the telescopic sight mounted on top.
The pic is at the wrong angle to be sure, but it looks more like an AR10 in 7.62 NATO than an AR15 in 5.56 NATO.
This would explain the low capacity magazine.
If so, the weapon choice makes more sense as a ‘sniper rifle’ than the shorter range AR15.
max
Ted Cruz outflanks Rand Paul:
McCaskill earns the donations I gave her;
max
[‘Amen.’]
different-church-lady
@Goblue72: Categorical statements always help solve complicated social problems.
different-church-lady
@Mike in NC:
Which calls for the question: how the ‘eff is the Pentagon coming up with so much excess stuff to pawn off? They can’t guestimate any better than that?
SatanicPanic
@Mandalay: fair enough, I could see that
different-church-lady
@Cacti:
Time for second guessing is over. Time for first guessing has arrived.
max
Rand Paul hits back:
John Lewis says martial law:
max
[‘John Lewis is not happy with you people.’]
WaterGirl
@max: I have been waiting to hear from John Lewis. Thanks for posting this.
max
Ferguson believe in FREEEDOOOOMMM:
I believes that deserves a hearty, ‘No shit, Sherlock!’
Obama lets Jay Nixon know O has his back… as soon as he gets off his ass:
Obama said people need to “come together” in Ferguson, and said that he will be working with the Department of Justice and local authorities to make sure that “justice is done.” The president said that police need to be “open and transparent” about their investigation into Brown’s death.
He said that there’s “never an excuse for violence against police,” but also that there’s no excuse for authorities to use “excessive force” against protesters. He added that “police should not be arresting journalists who are just trying to do their job.”
Obama expressed confidence in Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon’s (D) ability to help deescalate the situation, calling him a “good man and fine governor.”
max
[‘So what is the fine Guv up to today, anyways?’]
Goblue72
@different-church-lady: if you don’t think the institutionalized racism we see on display in Fegurson isn’t a national problem amongst the average police department, then you aren’t paying attention.
Violet
@max:
He’s meeting with leaders in the area. You can follow his Twitter feed to find out more.
max
@WaterGirl: I have been waiting to hear from John Lewis. Thanks for posting this.
My pleasure! I’ve been working on a car all day, so I fell a little behind, but it made a neat little chronology when you line it up like that.
Meanwhile, Robin Williams widow says he had Parkinson’s disease, early stages.
max
[‘That helps explain that. :/’]
Villago Delenda Est
@different-church-lady:
As someone who dealt with the perennial shortages of things we really needed in the Army vs. what the swivel-chair hussars of the logistics chain determined we needed, the answer to that is “no”.
Violet
@max:
Oh, man. That is so sad. Puts the whole thing in a different light.
Mandalay
@max:
This. She’s been great over the past few days, and hasn’t sat back waiting to gauge public reaction before voicing her opinions.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mandalay:
They even had a bear in the air!
Sorry, couldn’t resist…
Villago Delenda Est
@Violet: That definitely does. Severe depression and another disease like Parkinson’s…not a very pleasant combination.
Villago Delenda Est
@burnspbesq: Which leads me to conclude that a majority of his constituents are unspeakable slime, as well.
Glocksman
@Villago Delenda Est:
Callin’ all trucks, this here’s the Duck and we’re about to go a huntin’ Bear.
And we shot the line and went for broke with a thousand screaming trucks.
And 11 long haired friends of Jesus in a chartreuse microbus.
Heh.
different-church-lady
@Goblue72: That’s a different statement than your first one.
Mandalay
@Glocksman: Ahh, thx. VDE’s comment had whooshed me.
max
@Villago Delenda Est: They even had a bear in the air!
It would’ve been great if that TPM story on the police chief had ended, ‘Chief exits stage left, yelling, ‘This is not gooooooodddddd!’, pursued by bear…’
@Violet: Oh, man. That is so sad. Puts the whole thing in a different light.
His show got canceled, he had the diagnosis, and he fell off the wagon and had to go to rehab. Probably felt like the whole world had caved in on him.
max
[‘Poor sod.’]
Matt McIrvin
@scav: I remember thinking of the very weird city/county structure in Virginia, with its many independent cities, as the norm, and being surprised that it didn’t apply everywhere. (In Virginia it’s common for a county seat to not actually be in the county it’s the seat of.)
In most of New England, the situation is unusual in a different way: there is no territory that is outside of a city or town, and the county government is often either vestigial or entirely nonexistent. The counties are mostly just the divisions of the state court system.
Emma
@Violet: Every President seems to age 20 years in office. It’s, to me, the worst job in the world.
oops. This was in response to skerry.
raven
@Glocksman: Now that I look more closely at the size of that magazine I believe you are correct. Being an old M-14 guy and suffering the transition to that Mattel shit I should have seen that.
eta That “flash hider” is weird.
Matt McIrvin
@Mustang Bobby: It’s his running mate!
Bobby Thomson
@feebog: That mayor needs to fucking go in the next election, and if it’s anything approximating a free and fair election I don’t see how he doesn’t. Making pathetic excuses for the cops isn’t going to make his case with his constituents.
Botsplainer
@Bobby Thomson:
Is Ferguson one of those municipalities with off-date elections for their local officials? It always guarantees to crush turnout.
Botsplainer
@Emma:
Every President seems to age like that because a term or two tends to bridge a divide across which ALL men appear to age rapidly, and those who don’t go to gray get bald.
Bobby Thomson
@Violet:
Just another example of how McCaskill sucks. The police have always been at least 90% of the problem from the start, when one of the police started the problems by murdering a kid.
Emma
It seems Obama has asked both the DOJ and the FBI to investigate the shooting. Independent investigations. He also pointed the DOJ to the local police. AND he had a conversation with the governor (I would have loved to be a fly on the wall on this one) and the Governor is headed to Ferguson.
TooManyJens
@Bobby Thomson: Give her a break; she’s been doing good work on this.
Mandalay
@max:
I see it the other way around. Cruz’s statement reads like it was written by a staffer, and seems to care more about reporters than race.
But Paul is hitting all the right buttons. He correctly links the militarization of cops to big government:
And this is what Paul is saying about race:
Ted Cruz isn’t saying any of that. Folks here who have been dumping on Paul might discover that the events in Ferguson actually end up broadening Paul’s appeal.
rikyrah
@D.N. Nation:
I feel you.
Amen
Belafon
@Mandalay: I expect a correction along the lines of his “I endorse using drones to target liquor store thieves.”
SFAW
Semi-OT, but sort of falls under the category of “good news”: Culture of Truth will no longer have to write some variation of “I heard you were an idiot” for the Meet the Press Bobblespeak Translations
mike with a mic
@different-church-lady:
Reducing forces after a war. War is really a logistics game. Take one soldier, he doesn’t get one “this is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is fine”, don’t work like that. You’ve got the rifles in basic he trains on, the rifles in infantry training, the rifles at each command in the states, and on and on and on. Then there are spares at each of these stations because weapons break down even if you are maintaining the hell out of them. It requires dozens of rifles to train and equip a single soldier.
So when we ramp down from war fighting numbers tens of thousands of soldiers are no longer needed you have a shit ton of guns around that you can’t really maintain properly even if you could afford to and wanted to. So as a “cost saving measure” you give them all away to other organizations who may want or need them.
It works like this with everything. One Aircraft carrier is utterly worthless as it will be in dry dock all the time. In order to have a single carrier deployed all the time you need three of the fuckers, same for all the crew, air craft, and support craft around it.
Scaling up a military even in small numbers requires massive amounts of equipment, scaling down a military results in tons of extra shit you have to give away or blow up.
Violet
@Bobby Thomson: McCaskill has been doing some good stuff in relation to militarization of the police. Don’t agree with your assessment.
@Mandalay: Interesting stuff. I don’t know if what Rand Paul is saying will broaden his appeal into the African American community but it’s nice to hear someone saying what he’s saying.
Gravenstone
@RSR: Those are folding bipods, meant to be used when firing from a prone position. The higher tripod he’s currently using is basically separate from the weapon and is used to allow him to maintain a more comfortable ready position.
max
[Back in from workin’ on the car]
@Mandalay: This. She’s been great over the past few days, and hasn’t sat back waiting to gauge public reaction before voicing her opinions.
Amen. There are damn fine reasons to support our less doggy (or dodgy) blue dogs. It’s when it’s all dog and no blue that I get upset. (Congresswoman Sinema, the bell is tolling.)
@Mandalay: I see it the other way around. Cruz’s statement reads like it was written by a staffer, and seems to care more about reporters than race.
You’re right: “I should’ve said ‘Cruz attempts en passant attack on Paul’s left flank, Paul brushes it off.”
Ted Cruz isn’t saying any of that. Folks here who have been dumping on Paul might discover that the events in Ferguson actually end up broadening Paul’s appeal.
Hey, if Paul is the new Republican party, as far as I’m concerned, that’s an improvement. Us civil liberties types need all the help we can get. Still gonna vote Dem though, short of some serious apostasy on his part.
max
[‘So don’t firebag me, bro.’]
Xenos
@Villago Delenda Est:
CONVOOOOOOOOY!!!!!!!!
I wore the grooves out of that 45 back when I was 8.
“… this here is rubber duck, I’m a-gonna put the hammer down…”
Sorry, back to the subject at hand.
Mandalay
@Violet:
If it’s Clinton vs. Paul in 2016 – improbable but not impossible – I could see Paul getting plenty of black votes. He could point to the militarization of the police, police harassment, racial disparities in the justice system, and our absurd drug laws. And then Paul could turn to Clinton and say: “And what the FUCK have YOU ever done to address those issues? NOTHING! You were too busy sucking white Wall Street cock, and shoving your tongue up Israel’s ass, and voting to kill brown people, and attacking our black president!”. (Well maybe he’d be a bit more diplomatic, but you get the idea. If Republicans can smear Kerry as a war coward they can surely smear Clinton as a racist who has never lifted a finger for black people.)
I’m not saying that Paul would be anything other than a massive disaster as a president. But I can see how he might be the only Republican to have any appeal with black voters.
Chyron HR
@Mandalay:
You see The Son as following in The Father’s path of serving as a member of Congress for years while pretending to somehow be entirely independent of the U.S. Government? That’s nice.
Pococurante
@Mandalay:
But pointless. Cops have had dash cams for years – the devices are often only reliable when they uphold the cop’s story. The video tends to disappear a lot though. All very strange.
Look at it another way, if cops really wanted video transparency to help them do their job better they wouldn’t arrest/beat people who are recording what is happening. Crowd sourcing would be encouraged.
Mandalay
@Chyron HR:
No idea you are talking about asshole, and don’t put words in my mouth.
If you have the guts to voice to your own opinion let’s hear it. Otherwise fuck off and crawl back under your rock.
SatanicPanic
@Mandalay: He’d have to explain why he would get rid of the ACA. That might be tougher one than explaining how his words saved people from getting arrested. I don’t know, I think Paul is just trying to reassure his Libertarian fans that they’re not really racist.
Gravenstone
@raven: I don’t think it’s a flash suppressor, rather it’s probably a compensator for muzzle climb. Another argument for it being .308.
rikyrah
Al Arabiya English ✔ @AlArabiya_Eng
Follow
#BREAKING Spokesman: #Maliki to step down, back #Iraq elected PM #Abedi
2:40 PM – 14 Aug 2014
drkrick
@different-church-lady:
Given the politics, the Pentagon can the money to replace the stuff a lot more readily than the PDs can get the money to buy it for themselves. Plus the Pentagon’s gets new and shiny replacements while offloading older stuff.
raven
@Gravenstone: Advanced Armament Co (AAC) Blackout Flash Hider 90-Tooth Ratchet Taper Suppressor Mount 7.62mm AR-10, LR-308 5/8″-24 Thread Steel Matte
Betty Cracker
@mike with a mic: I vote blow it up.
@SatanicPanic: That sounds about right to me. Paul would have to explain his opposition to the ACA (and Senate statement that it was tantamount to enslavement of doctors!) and all sorts of other teabaggery. Oh, and his support for allowing private businesses to slap “whites only” signs up if they choose. And then there’s that thing about his former neo-Confederate staffer, etc.
rikyrah
@Mandalay:
And all Hillary or any Democratic candidate would have to do is make ads with Rand Paul saying that he wouldn’t have voted for the Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act.
The TAPES (PLURAL) exist.
That cuts through all the Rand Paul smokescreen bullshyt.
Plus, add in his defense of Voter ID laws for good measure.
Not a Republican out there that could appeal to outside anything other than the usual Black GOP voters.
Glocksman
@mike with a mic:
And considering that the Feds can’t sell full auto M4’s or M16’s to civilians like they could the Garands and M1 Carbines of years gone by, giving them to cops or as foreign aid (note all the pics of Israeli troops with M16’s or M4’s despite Israeli manufacture of a first rate rifle in the Galil), along with simply melting them down, are their only options.
That said, I don’t have much of a problem with police having M16’s as a last resort SHTF weapon as I do with them having APC’s and dressing like soldiers instead of cops and adopting the military mindset.
DoD aid to police departments is more of a symptom than a cause of the problems we’re having.
mike with a mic
@Betty Cracker:
And then the money to buy normal weapons for cops would come out of social services. I’m fine with that personally, but it’s not going to work out like you think it will.
mike with a mic
@Betty Cracker:
And then the money to buy normal weapons for cops would come out of social services. I’m fine with that personally, but it’s not going to work out like you think it will.
Glocksman
@raven:
It looks a lot like the 3 prong flash supressor mounted on the first generation M16 rifles.
The Colt AR I owned years ago had all of the M16A2 mods, other than full auto or 3 shot burst of course, including the new ‘birdcage’ supressor.
While the AR didn’t seem as rugged as the Maadi AK I owned at the same time, it seemed to be light years in solidity ahead of the no name clones that slapped together parts sloppily enough that you had noticeable play between the upper and lower receivers when handing the rifle.
If I were in the market for another AR clone, it’d either be a gray market semiauto Colt or a Bushmaster.
different-church-lady
@Mandalay:
Like she’s going to have any trouble picking up votes with that record?
Kathleen
@skerry: I think he looks exhausted and like he may have a virus. I agree. He does not look well to me. But Maureen Dowd said he’s relaxing while the world is burning. How dare he take care of himself, especially if he’s ill.
mike with a mic
@Glocksman:
I don’t know what sort of “military mindset” you’re talking about. There’s a reason people want the actual National Guard to step in and not the cops. The military isn’t nearly as screwed up as the police are.
Glocksman
@mike with a mic:
I guess what I’m talking about is the outlook of being outsiders to the population at large.
Even my ex Army best friend thinks dressing cops as soldiers encourages them to think of civilians as the ‘other’.
The Guard is somewhat immunized to that effect by remaining members of the at large society when they’re not on active duty, and I don’t doubt that a lot of Guard members would turn their weapons on their superiors rather than obey an order to fire upon peaceful civilians that were from the same area.
There are reasons why tons of comments have said that pics from Ferguson remind them of Baghdad circa 2004.
IOW, they’re acting as more as an occupying force than as peacekeepers.
max
@Glocksman: That said, I don’t have much of a problem with police having M16′s as a last resort SHTF weapon as I do with them having APC’s and dressing like soldiers instead of cops and adopting the military mindset.
I’d take the opposite tack: it’s not the MRAPs or the body armor that are problem, it’s the machine guns, sniper rifles, sound weapons, tasers and the like that are the problem. An MRAP is mostly harmless and maybe makes some things safer. Maybe wastes some gas. Woo.
But then I think a cop armed with more than a revolver, a baton and maybe a shotgun in the cruiser is way too heavily armed.
max
[‘So there’s that.’]
Glocksman
@max:
I didn’t look at it from that angle, and I mostly agree with the caveat that instead of a revolver, it should be a modern 9mm or 40S&W semiauto pistol.
Other than that, M16’s should be the absolute last resort weapon used because rifle bullets tend to penetrate things that stop pistol bullets or buckshot cold and can potentially kill innocent bystanders hiding behind a wall.
IOW, unless the bad guys are wearing body armor like the Hollywood Bank Robbers were, leave the M16’s in the car.
As much as a self confessed gun nut I am, if I were stupid enough to use a centerfire rifle for home defense in my apartment and one of my missed shots went through the wall and killed my neighbor digging a beer out of his fridge, I’d damn well deserve the prison sentence awaiting me.
Similarly, if a SWAT team raiding an apartment used M16’s and killed someone 2 units away with a missed shot, that department was negligent at best and didn’t give a shit about the neighbors at worst.
Spinoza Is My Co-pilot
@max:
You consider Kirsten Sinema to be a blue dog, and not only that, but one who is (or is becoming) all dog and no blue?
I live here, volunteered on her ’12 campaign, and will do so again this year.
She’s no blue dog — what are you talking about?
Oh, and fuck Bull Connor and his militarized crew in Ferguson.
Good to see Cruz’s and Paul’s (especially Paul’s) statements against militarized American police forces. Have to say that was really unexpected, and I don’t think it was “pandering”, particularly toward blacks, but expressions of actual principle. “Don’t tread on me” I suppose, so maybe it shouldn’t have been that unexpected (though I always expect the racism to win out).
Many of the racist fascists I work with also have no love of heavy-handed police, and not just feds but local cops. Ferguson’s caused a real divide amongst them, with some taking the “hell with the ghetto animals” line, while others are arguing the Ferguson cops are at fault (as they so obviously are) even if they are not really down with the protests.
Glocksman
Question:
Why is it that when I have either committed or have been suspected of committing a motor vehicle violation, the ISP officers were wearing what I think of as ‘classic’ police uniforms and were uniformly (heh) civil and respectful, while the EPD and VCSD officers were either wearing police uniforms or black/brown fatigues and the level of treatment depended upon the individual officer?
There are some outstanding cops in the EPD and VCSD, but in my experience there are too many who adopt the mindset that anyone other than a cop is a threat and treat you like shit.
In some cases that feeling *may* be justified, but the onus is on the cop to prove you are a threat before he treats you like one.
And before anyone says it, it’s not the pay.
Here in Indiana, a lot of local PD’s have higher pay for the equivalent rank than the ISP does.
Mandalay
@different-church-lady:
Why would black voters be impressed that Clinton enthusiastically supports giving Israel over $3bn of taxpayer money every year? Especially if that was painted as part of a list of the special interests she supports, where black interests were conspicuously absent.
Shortstop
@rikyrah: and only a white person could think for one second that he would…just as only white people were absolutely sure that black voters would feel so “let down” by Obama that they’d stay home in 2012. Not all or even most white people, to be sure, but everyone to fall for either thing is white.
It’s a funny thing about white dog whistles. Many white people seem shocked to learn that black people can hear them too.
Glocksman
@Shortstop:
The good thing about my low end blue collar job is that it over the years has slowly opened my eyes to how minorities view things after some heated discussions among us.
That, along with GWB, is what slowly turned me from a slightly cynical Republican into a nearly full fledged liberal Democrat*.
Though I do owe listening to Joe Madison some of the credit as well.
*Gun bans are where I part company with most of the self declared ‘liberals’.
While I agree that there are some additional measures needed, gun bans aren’t among them.
That said, I’d sooner vote for a gun banner that supported UHC rather than a 2A absolutist who despised UHC as ‘socialism’.
J R in WV
@Matt McIrvin:
I once was talking to a fellow professional in New Jersey, who asked what town I lived in. I replied that I dodn’t live in a town, I lived in the country in Lincoln county, which has two very small towns many miles from my farm.
She was dumbfounded and replied ‘You have to live in a town!” Now I understand that in some places indeed there are townships that cover everywhere.
Regarding the Police Riot in MO, some authority needs to disarm the out of control would-be military rulers in the worst way. The best news from MO is that the cops who started all this by shooting an unarmed person not guilty of any crime other than disrespect for a worm deserving of no respect have finally gotten national attention by arresting reporters trying to get coffee at McDonalds.
That it takes arresting reporters from out of town to get attention, as opposed to killing innocent and unarmed youngsters, is a crying shame!