The NYTimes interviewed him about the books and writers that had the most influence on his work:
…Whom would you consider your literary heroes?
I would have to say that Mark Twain is up there with the gods and probably cursing it. “Life on the Mississippi” blew my mind. And, of course, reading him meant that I got to read “A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court.” I hope it’s still read and that people read the book he wanted people to see, because I know that some editions leave out the fact that the Yankee boy killed most of the famous Knights of the Round Table using electricity. Now that is fantasy.
Which novels have had the most impact on you as a writer? Is there a particular book that made you want to write?It has to be “The Wind in the Willows.” It fascinated me. He had toads living in great country houses and badgers and moles acting like British gentlemen. I read the pages so often they fell apart, and God bless him for leaving in the pieces called “Wayfarers All” and “The Piper at the Gates of Dawn.” I am sorry to say that certain publishers, who really should know better, have produced editions with those pieces cut from that wonderful book, stating they were simply too heavy for children. I scream at stuff like that. After all, “The Pilgrim’s Progress” was a book written for children. A good book, no matter its intended audience, should get people reading, and that’s what started me writing. And once I started, I never stopped…
And if you could bring only three books to a desert island, which would you choose?
“Boatbuilding for Beginners,” “Poisonous Plants of the South Pacific” and a very good seafood cookery book…
***********
Apart from being grateful for the literature we love, what’s on the agenda for the weekend?
Iowa Old Lady
I’m reading Robin Hobb’s Fool’s Assassin, and just came to a point where Fitz has slipped his mind into the river of thoughts belonging to people with what the series calls The Skill. And he says:
“Some dreamed of love and wholeness, but there were others, dreaming of vengeance and wishing ill on others as they dwelt on wrongdoings and slights.”
It occurred to me that the Internet is like that. People post their thoughts and it’s not always an edifying stream. In the last few days, I’ve had to step away sometimes.
Not from here though.
Tom Levenson
A beneficent literary culture will give Pratchett his due for generations. What pleasures.
And I so see Discworld aborning in Wind in the Willows. Would never have occured to me, but on reading it above, ’tis blindingly obvious! Mark of a great writer, that.
metricpenny
Watching the Unity Rally for Michael Brown Jr. in Ferguson, MO on MSNBC.
Check it out.
Mnemosyne
Home from our trip to visit family in Chicago. I’m about three-quarters of the way through Wolf Hall (yes, I’m WAY behind on my reading) but will hopefully finish it in the next day or two.
Iowa Old Lady
@Mnemosyne: I listened to that on audiobook from the library. It made surprisingly good entertainment for the car.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
I asked for advice on publishing a novel and then got snippy at the advice I got. Mostly it was really depressing because I don’t think I have the patience and the flexibility to do a good job going either the traditional publishing or the self-publishing route. I don’t really have any interest in learning about the industry or figuring out how to market and psychologically I’m not in a position where I can force myself to do that sort of thing. Every single bit of energy I have in that regard is going to the job search. I just can’t do it with something else.
So I have no idea what I’m going to do. Maybe I’ll just get the best editing I can with the cash I have on hand (which is basically zero) and then load it up to Kindle or something so that people I know can get a copy.
Fuck publishing.
Mnemosyne
@Iowa Old Lady:
I’m pretty familiar with the history (I’ve read a lot of nonfiction about the Tudors) but it’s interesting to get a new perspective on the same story. Cromwell is usually presented as a villain in contrast to the heroic Sir Thomas More, so I like having the perspective switched.
It also ends up highlighting how slightly bizarre it is for the staunchly Roman Catholic More to be held up as a hero in Protestant Great Britain, which I’m assuming is one of Mantel’s points.
Iowa Old Lady
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): I don’t intend this as advice, just as fond reminiscence. The most fun I ever had writing was when I was writing Tolkien fanfiction. I wrote it, had a brilliant beta give me feedback, revised, and posted. If people liked it, swell. If they didn’t, who cared? I could just write another one. It was pure play, zero stakes.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Iowa Old Lady: Yeah, I’m thinking of heading for something like that. The problem is that I’ve advanced far enough that I won’t really think of it as done until I’ve been able to work on it with something more than a beta reader. I need an actual editor but I can’t really afford to pay for one.
Honestly, I think I’ve given up on ever making money as a writer. I just can’t see myself doing the kinds of things beyond actually writing that it would take to do that. Maybe things will be different in a few years if other aspects of my life improve but now there’s just no way.
So I think I would be happy just finding a way to put it out there for people to read who find it. But I still want professional editing.
Violet
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
If that’s what you think then you’ll be right.
Not everyone writes things to sell to others. Maybe writing it for yourself is enough. Or, as you said, to put up on Kindle so friends and others can read it.
Years ago I knew a guy who had self-published a book (paperback–no digital anything then) on a subject near and dear to his heart. He sold them out of his place of business. I don’t think he made a lot of money but he sold a lot of them to the folks that came through over the years. Perhaps there is an opportunity like that for you.
Kay
The plain language just makes it better, IMO :)
Violet
@Kay: They hate her up there. She recently endorsed Joe Miller for Senate in the Republican primary.. Do not see how that will help him.
dmsilev
@Kay: I still, years later, can’t really believe that she just …walked away from the governorship. Boggles the mind, it does.
gene108
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
The best you can do**, in many cases, especially if you have problems with depression* (like you mentioned yesterday), is more than good enough.
* It’s been 11 years since my last major episode, where I got institutionalized. Depression is really tough.
** Give yourself a pat on the back for being able to write a novel. There’s no way in hell I could do that. I really wish I could, but I’m just not that good of a writer. Most people cannot write a novel. Just finishing a draft is more than a good many of us are capable of. It is not a small accomplishment.
WereBear
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Step at a time.
A lot of networking nowadays is done on the Internet… that should be much easier.
And don’t be so down on your own skills. Do it all yourself, if need be! It wlil be out there. Stand by it.
WRITE ANOTHER ONE.
If you like, go back and do an snazzier version of the first one, and call it a second edition. Now that’s professional!
scav
@Mnemosyne: I’m assuming you mean for much later Protestant England vis-a-vis the RC Moore. Because I’m not sure it was overall staunch much either direction during the 1500s (individually, yes, different matter). But, given the general English love for outlaws, Robin Hood, et al, I can see the basic rear-view appeal of someone standing up to a king versus somebody latterly possibly best known for being a govt. busybody and likely imposing a lot of taxes.
Ruckus
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
I had a brilliant editor give me lessons in editing so that I could improve my writing(technical stuff) It helped a lot for me to see how I was writing for the way my head works but not for the way many others see things. I have no idea if I could help you or not by taking a look at your book but the price is right (zero!) so if you are interested have Annie sent me your email and see what we can do. Not every editor is the right fit for the style of the writing but I may just be OK. I’m semi retired so don’t have unlimited time but do have lots of it.
PsiFighter37
The weekend is almost over, so I have very little agenda beyond finishing my last couple of drinks and hitting the sack hard.
I need to finish my vows during the week. I need to channel my inner-high-school-self, or I think I’m going to be in deep shit (I was a great creative writing student in high school, and I have done absolutely zero of that since).
And I need to pack to move. And I have a wedding to go to this weekend. And two weekends from now. And I’m getting married after that.
FUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
rikyrah
Capt Ron Johnson Receives Standing Ovation At Michael Brown Memorial
http://youtu.be/uqZ8AJfv0wI
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Ruckus: I’ll do that. I like having people read it, whether they are thinking of it as an editor or not.
SiubhanDuinne
Would one (or more) of our legal eagles care to comment on this?
I didn’t include this in the blockquote, but this sentence from the article may be what I need to calm myself down: Jackson’s ruling allows 20 lawsuits filed by survivors of the attack or relatives of those killed to proceed toward trial.
Is this kind of ruling customary? It just seems incredibly counterintuitive that the movie theatre could have anticipated a mass shooting and should have taken steps to prevent it.
Violet
@PsiFighter37: Are you and your fiancee saying the same vows to each other or are you each writing your own?
Violet
@rikyrah: He was the best. The. Best. No one else was even close.
scav
@rikyrah: Thank you. He is an impressive orator. Intelligent. NIce strong simple style.
gbear
I just finished reading ‘A Deeper Blue: The Life and Music of Townes Van Zandt’. All the way through the book you’re presented with what an incredible writer and performer and sweetheart he was while at the same time a trainwreck and asshole due to bipolar illness and substance abuse (booze, codine, and heroin). He basically drank himself to death at 52. A really sad read.
Kay
@dmsilev:
That’s because you never watched an episode of her daughter’s reality tv show. The girls are in LA, they know no one (but they’re staying in this crazily elaborate house, which just adds to the weirdness) and the mother of the little boy needs a daycare provider. The two girls call Palin and she recites cheery, uplifting slogans. Just a complete waste of time, that phone call, and they had like 11 hours to find a babysitter! I don’t know how it ended up. The whole thing was making me nervous.
Iowa Old Lady
@rikyrah: The guy is a beacon of hope in a horrible time.
muddy
@PsiFighter37: One thing I have noticed at weddings where people write their own vows, is that they often don’t have much vowing in them. People are so sweet and touching about why they love the other person, and how much all of this means, makes everyone cry. But vows need vows in my opinion. It’s not scientific at all, but off hand it seems to me like the more successful marriages I’ve witnessed had some fairly specific promises, not a lot of flowery hopes and dreams. I’m not including traditional vows in this.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kay: This is the Palins? I didn’t know the daughters had a show, I thought the second one was still school-age. That aside, I’m sure there is a nanny, who is never called that, who travels with them.
As for the empty sloganeering, I assume that whoever is pulling those strings knows the audience, and knows there’s no point in paying for dialogue and tweets
debbie
@Mnemosyne:
I’ve read the first two books and cannot wait how she handles the end.
SiubhanDuinne
@PsiFighter37:
Years ago, for strange reasons that now escape me, I watched a marathon of Coach. There were a few episodes built around Hayden and Christine’s wedding, and his inability to write his vows was a significant plot point. If it’s any consolation, you’re waa-a-a-aaay ahead of Craig T. Nelson (in many respects).
Ruckus
@dmsilev:
She should be the official poster child for the need to vote folks.
“Look what you get when you leave the voting to idiots.”
Violet
@Kay: You watched the show? Seriously? It got such bad ratings whichever channel it was moved it to a later time slot and put a rerun of “Dance Moms” in its place–and the rerun got higher ratings than the Palin girls’ show.
That’s also the one where the little boy curses on camera and the girls laugh. Excellent parenting skills.
Ruckus
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
I’ll put my editors hat on.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
A science fiction trilogy I recommend very highly is Spin State, Spin Control, and Ghost Spinby Chris Moriarty. Good plot. Great characters. And it explores ideas of identity and what defines being human. Just fabulously well done.
And, of course, Guy Gavriel Kay and Jon Courtenay Grimwood.
Violet
@muddy:
Yep. Say what you’re going to do. What you stand for as a couple. That’s why I’m a fan of both people saying the same vows. That way you’re agreeing to the same thing. It means a lot more than saying how you met the person across the crowded student union and knew right away they were for you and through thick and thin you’ve always loved them. So? Does that mean you’ll be there when things get tough? That’s what vows are. You vow to be there–sickness and in health, good times and bad. You’ll love and cherish them. Death do you part. That kind of thing. They’re vows. You’re committing to something. You can write your own vows, but their vows not a declaration of love.
SiubhanDuinne
@Iowa Old Lady:
By far the best audiobook experience I ever had was once when I had to drive from Atlanta to Orlando on business. I listened to The Iliad on the way down and The Odyssey on the way back (Derek Jacobi was the reader for both). Timing was perfect, as the trip took about 6.5-7.0 hours, and that’s how long each book was.
RSA
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
I don’t know the backstory, but congratulations on having finished a novel, published or not. From what I’ve read, a good proportion of aspiring novelists don’t make it that far. I’ll agree with your take on publishing–I don’t have the patience or flexibility to be a real success either, based on my experience with a popular science book. It’s a huge amount of work aside from the writing that some people revel in (Establish a platform! Network! Etc.!) but that others, like me, have real trouble being enthusiastic about. On the other hand, there’s some satisfaction in having written a book.
goblue72
The riot as politics and honoring the self-empowered of oppressed peoples – https://www.jacobinmag.com/2014/08/in-defense-of-the-ferguson-riots/
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
I understand the plaintiffs’ (and their lawyers’) POV re deep pockets. It’s the judge’s ruling that seems odd to me.
pseudonymous in nc
‘Wind in the Willows’ is such a significant book. British wildlife is relatively un-scary: no wolves, no bears, no moose. But there’s a kind of wanderlust tied up with the countryside, and Grahame captures that.
His grave is in a lovely little hidden cemetery, deliberately kept a little bit wild, so the foxes and hedgehogs hang out there.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
She doesn’t go to school. She quit halfway through.
Ruckus
@Violet:
Isn’t that the reason for a public ceremony int the first place, to publicly exchange what you are willing to do for the other person? You don’t need a public ceremony to make them of course but it used to enhance the meaning of the promise, making it public.
Violet
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yes, the Palin girls had a TV show. It was really Bristol’s show but her next younger sister Willow was on it with her. Bristol Palin: Life’s a Tripp.
The daughter you’re thinking of is Piper, the youngest of the three daughters. She’s still school age.
Ruckus
@SiubhanDuinne:
Fruit.
Tree.
Fall.
Far.
Not.
Kay
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I only watched one episode. I think it’s over. The overall effect was pretty grim, which, you know, is probably ‘the reality” of moving to LA with a small child and your sort of surly and petulant younger teenage sister to “help” you with said child, when you have no skills or job prospects and are squatting in a borrowed mansion.
mkd
I give Wind in the Willows to every young child I have the luck to gift at Christmas. My copy was illustrated by Arthur Rackham, who brilliantly captured Ratty, Mole and Badger and that lovely yellow caravan they took off in with Toad. I re-read the Christmas chapter, Dulce Donum, every winter to relive the sweetness of Ratty’s reaction to Mole’s humble abode.
Villago Delenda Est
More idiocy from Noisemax:
Dershowitz ‘Outraged’ by Perry Indictment
Dershowitz really has gone whole hog wingtard, hasn’t he?
shelley
Are you kidding me? This numbskull would probably ban ‘Charlotte’s Web’ and the Narnia books.
Surprised that they didn’t take out the ‘Wild Wood’ chapter where Mole is lost in the forest and snow and terrorized by the wild wooders.
Always a little sorry that Rat didn’t get a chance to take off for parts unknown in ‘Wayfarers.’
I think ‘Dulce Domum’ is the ultimate, comforting bedtime chapter.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Violet: @Kay: I’m picturing Sarah giving Bristol a Tony Soprano style lecture in that voice like glass in a disposal with that fake smile and those dead-eyes: “Sweetie, in this family, if you don’t earn, you don’t eat. Sign the contract, pack your things and go on down to LA and do your part. Remember, 20% you kick up to mama!… and naturally my ten percent as your agent, also, too, of course! God bless! Remember, your good side is on the right!”
Anne Laurie
@Kay: Never watched that show, but I do remember stories about it at the time. “Word” was that there was a fundamental misfit between what the producers wanted (lots of Happy Granma Say-rah dispensing heartwarming advice) and what Bristol and Willow were capable of giving them: two half-feral teenagers, one who’d already scrambled into a sort of fame by following her parents’ crappy example, and the younger even less sophisticated one eager to replicate that example in a much bigger market. The kids kept saying Sarah hadn’t been much use as a mom, and they couldn’t/wouldn’t understand why the people with the money thought she would be any better with the cameras rolling. One review, IIRC, called it “Honey Boo Boo, but without the love and trust”.
SiubhanDuinne
@Ruckus:
Right.
scav
For Wind in the Willows fans, there’s a 10-episode version read by Bernard Cribbins still up as downloadable mp3s at the BBC. I thought they were going to pull it, but not yet.
Anne Laurie
@Violet: Corny, but good:
Spousal Unit doesn’t care for country music at all, but he was quite happy to have an old friend sing this as our processional.
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Whatever happened to that lovely word “vigorish”?
Gin & Tonic
Today I was smarter than yesterday, and wore disposable nitrile gloves when working with that 3M 5200 stuff, and with varnish, so I can sit down to dinner with semi-clean hands.
Gin & Tonic
@Violet: Big fan, are you?
Gene108
@SiubhanDuinne:
Went through a lawsuit, where I work. We were the defendant.
Plaintiff did not have a strong case.
Lawyer and a retired judge, who did a mediation, both said despite not having a strong case the courts are not likely to dismiss a case, if someone has some claim, grievance, etc that is not completely bug fuck crazy.
The courts view is (1) if something goes to a jury trial, you cannot predetermine the winner, and (2) courts are our method to settle disputes, so judges are not likely to discourage litigation, when two or more parties have grievances, as long as the claims are not bug fuck crazy.
It sucks being in the court system, when you feel you did not do anything wrong, but I can see where lawsuits for damages against Cinemark would not be dismissed out of hand.
Could they have had better or more exists? Could the lighting on the aisles be better to make it easier for people to find exists?
There’s probably some argument that can be made that the theater design should foresee some type of catastrophe and allow easier exits, for example.
So the courts will not throw the case out based on the “statute” of common sense that makes most of us think WTF.
The flip side is the (in)famous case if the old lady who got a MCDonald’s cup of coffee at the drive though window, spilled it on herself, got severe burns, sued McKie D’s, and it turns out McDonalds was engaged in a business practice – keeping coffee crazy hot – because people would buy more food, since they would want to have something to nibble on as they drank their dangerously hot coffee.
The right-wing reaction was a WTF*? “Common sense” should tell us a company cannot be responsible for someone spilling a drink on herself.
So you never know what will come out at a trial.
I am not a lawyer, but this is my theory, which the professional lawyers can blow holes in, if the like.
* I know the right-wing “common sense” trope with this case was designed to get people to support limitations on punitive damages against corporate malfeasance, but on the surface it made sense, if you did not dig deeper into McDonald’s business practices.
Dog On Porch
To this day I prefer to read non-fiction, always have. I enjoyed reading science fiction in high school, but pretty much threw in the towel back then when I couldn’t bring myself to finish Lord of the Rings. It was OK, but too long a read too hold my attention, so I quit halfway through. What science fiction I’ve since enjoyed has been limited to TV and movies (which of course are sci-fi stories written by someone). Who knows? Perhaps if I had read Wind in the Willows as a little kid things might be different.
PsiFighter37
BTW, Ice Bucket Challenge is fucking stupid as shit. Sue me.
SiubhanDuinne
@Gene108:
That’s actually very helpful, whether or not YAAL. Thanks.
SiubhanDuinne
@PsiFighter37:
I hope no one challenges me. I’m a 72-year-old lady with a heart condition :-)
But I have to say, it may be stupid (okay, it IS stupid) but I’m having a lot of fun watching some of my friends, as well as famous people, get drenched in a good cause.
Dog On Porch
@PsiFighter37: Relax, Shakespeare has you covered.
Just pick one of his sonnets and quote it verbatim (with proper attribution, of course), or pick one of his sonnets, paraphrase, and pretend inspiration struck. Either way you can’t go wrong.
Anne Laurie
@PsiFighter37:
True. But it’s harmless stupid, and it’s made quite a bit of money for research while briefly entertaining many small children and tv-watchers, so I can bear the stupidity.
(Said as someone in the original media market — I think I’ve seen most of the regulars on all three local newscasts get drenched for the cameras. Also the guy who owns the Patriots, and Ethel Kennedy.)
JPL
@Kay: That made me laugh… Thanks!
Kay
@Anne Laurie:
yeah, it was just disjointed because she wasn’t living how anyone else her age in that situation would be living, which means (to me, anyway) that she’s disconnected from what is a huge group of young women with small children and no help from the other parent. She had this huge house which looked really isolated and (again, weirdly) a volunteer job sorting clothing or something for a nonprofit. That doesn’t have anything to do with her life at that point. That’s more like what someone who is financially secure with a small child might do; live in a big house, take care of the child, do some volunteer work. There’s nothing wrong with any of those things, but no one her age would be doing that, because they’d have to do other things to survive. It looked lonely, really.
SiubhanDuinne
@Anne Laurie:
Ethel Kennedy did it? Shit, there goes my “old lady” excuse.
sm*t cl*de
@pseudonymous in nc:
Badgers can be feckin’ scary bastids. Think of wolverines, but slightly mellowed by a couple of ‘ludes.
PurpleGirl
@Kay: I never watched the show but, IIRC, she was also living with (well, supposed to be) her dance partner from that show. Far from reality, it sounded to be like a fantasy in the mind of a TV executive. And it utterly flopped. And she was supposedly going to work at some foundation. Again, fantasy-land.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
I have always been a bit bothered by the underlying antilabor biases in The Wind in the Willows. That being said, I am a huge fan of Toad; love that guy.
Anne Laurie
@SiubhanDuinne: Well, she had some help (a whole bunch of Kennedys formed a chain & then carefully dumped a small bucket over her head).
She challenged President Obama, who — very wisely — said he’d just make a donation up front!
shelley
“Shows over, Shakespeare!”
SiubhanDuinne
@Anne Laurie:
Too bad, I’d have loved to see him do it and then challenge Walnuts, Snowbilly Snooki, Butchmeup Huckleberry, Lady Ann and Mittens Rmoney, and every talking head on FOX “News.”
And Putin, just for shitz and giggles.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@efgoldman: Equally obligatory and far longer.
SiubhanDuinne
@shelley:
I think PsiFighter37 should just adapt the words of “Brush Up Your Shakespeare.”
If you think my behaviour is heinous,
Kick me right in the Coriolanus…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I couldn’t agree more.
@SiubhanDuinne: Okay, those are pretty good. IIRC Walnuts’ mother used to dunk him in cold water when he was having a tantrum. She’s well into her nineties now, so I guess she couldn’t do anything about the last six years.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@efgoldman: Awesome, isn’t it?
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Anybody remember the Yes Minister episode about badgers?
SiubhanDuinne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Okay, so where has Mothernuts been every Sunday morning since forever?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@SiubhanDuinne: Lucy and the nude protest?
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
That’s the one!
pseudonymous in nc
@sm*t cl*de:
Oh, for sure (also: swans) but the risk of stumbling across a slightly irate badger is not exactly Call of the Wild territory.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@pseudonymous in nc:
Says someone who has clearly never stumbled across a slightly irate badger.
Kay
@PurpleGirl:
She would have been a sympathetic character except she became bitter and started judging all the people in Los Angeles :)
I don’t know if it was planned or what, but she did this speech while shopping about “Alaska values” blah, blah. Yuck. I was on her side up to then.
I was curious because I like the reality show about teen parents, the other one. I watched a whole day of it once sitting with my daughter while she recovered from (minor) surgery- just one right after the other. People criticize it in the “social services” world because it supposedly glorifies having a baby really young but I have no idea what they’re talking about. It fairly accurately depicts the reality, which is of course horribly difficult and stress-filled. I read that teen pregnancy is way down and I credit that show.
Anne Laurie
@Kay: Yeah, Wellesley actually did a study on that!:
Having old people lecture them about how getting preggers would ruin their lives: not necessarily useful. Seeing, in real time, specifically how their lives would be ruint: highly believable…
Mnemosyne
@debbie:
Like I said, I know the history, so I know what the ending is going to be, but I really want to see how Mantel gets there.
(Spoiler alert: Cromwell loses his head.)
Kay
@Anne Laurie:
Thanks! I’m not surprised, but I’m glad someone looked at it.