The NYTimes book section interviews Rick Perlstein:
… And who today are the best writers on American politics?
There are two, and they both are bloggers. One, Corey Robin of Brooklyn College, is also a political theorist; his book “The Reactionary Mind: Conservatism From Edmund Burke to Sarah Palin” provides the most convincing account about what right-wing habits of mind are ultimately all about. His humane and erudite blog — and its spirited commenters — deepen that conversation. A favorite theme is the emptiness of right-wing notions of “freedom” that actually leave us less free. See, for instance, his work on “Lavatory and Liberty,” which points out that the government doesn’t even enforce the right to bathroom breaks at work. What could be a greater insult to liberty than that?
My other favorite political writer, Heather Parton, blogs under the name “Digby.” Daily for over 10 years she’s been unleashing a fire hose of brilliance on the fecklessness of the Democrats, the craziness of the Republicans and especially the way that what we now call the “culture wars” has been seared into our national DNA at least since the Civil War. In the acknowledgments to “Nixonland,” I called her the other half of my brain….
***********
What’s on the agenda for the start of the holiday (for some of us) weekend?
BGinCHI
Why couldn’t the question have been:
“And who today are the best writers on American pets and the daily dangers of household maintenance?”
Cole is NEVER going to get famous at this rate.
BGinCHI
My comment is in moderation, so at least something in my life is.
jo6pac
Staying off the hiways and hope the bike shop has mine tuned up so I can pick it up tomorrow. Bicycle that is.
Stay safe everyone and enjoy the 3 days if you have them. Me will I’m retired so like my younger still working brother says every day is Sat to you, Yep.
Mudge
Go Digby..I fondly remember the some hilarious, some sexist, discussions a few years back about whether Digby was male or female.
cleek
we’re going to try to pack for a vacation without letting the cats know we’re packing. one of em pissed in the suitcase, last time we packed for a trip.
i like that Digby hasn’t changed her blog design, ever. brings me right back to 2002. the relentless pessimism grates on me, these days, tho.
Amir Khalid
Long weekend coming up here in Malaysia. Merdeka (independence) Day on Sunday, August 31, and then Monday. So from mid-August to mid-September, you have to stand for the national anthem in the cinema, before the movie starts. We’ll be standing up for the Negaraku until September 16, the anniversary of Sabah and Sarawak joining Malaysia. And sitting through like half a dozen tedious patriotic PSAs. (This years theme is “One Love”, i.e. of country. Eye-roll.)
Tommy
@jo6pac: I spent like $500 on my bike the other day. Happy in the money spent.
Betty Cracker
One of the mysteries of Hullabaloo used to be the wretched comments section. Digby runs a decent lefty blog, but for some reason her threads were infested with dim-witted cranks. She did the world a favor by shutting comments down, and I’m one of those people who usually can’t abide a blog that doesn’t allow comments.
Trollhattan
@Tommy:
That the senior citizen mountain bike? Good to go for another fifteen, I bet!
Just ordered two new tyres for my commuter bike ’cause I began geting flats, now that the tread is wearing. Stand back, I’m goin’ crazy!
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid: Lovely melody. French, as I recall.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Betty Cracker: Did her comment section get worse after she noted that she was a she? It wouldn’t surprise me if it did.
skerry
@Tommy: How’s the Scotland trip planning coming along?
I had put in a word for Ben Nevis – Britain’s highest peak – for a nice climb.
Bob In Portland
A review of “The Conformist”. I wonder if anyone at BJ will see anything familiar.
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I’m not sure, but it wouldn’t surprise me either. Being identifiably female online is an engraved invitation for sexist goons.
Amir Khalid
@Cervantes:
You’ve seen our national flag, right? We copied most of it off you guys.
Cervantes
@Betty Cracker: Yes, I agree, and remarked on it in the recent thread about Mary Beard.
Mr. Longform
Perlstein says in that interview that the book he’s reading right now is Craig Shirley’s Reagan bio, never mentioning that Shirley is the douchebag who is scatter-shooting plagiarism charges against Perlstein. He’s either one forgiving and big-hearted guy, or he’s Tony Soprano: you know I have great respect for you, my friend, and I would never do anything to endanger our relationship. You have my word ….
Cervantes
@Amir Khalid: There was some congruence around the number thirteen, if I recall correctly.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
The comment section here has seemed fairly stable over time, with minimal banning. Are we just that boring?
Keith G
@Betty Cracker: Quiet, wench!**
::Ducks and runs::
**Snark
jacy
I will spend the weekend working and cursing the black internet hole I live in — today it took me 3 hours to attach a 1.3M file to an email. This is where connectivity comes to die. It’s going to be a loooong weekend, because I see the oncologist on Tuesday, but I’m grateful for a swift appointment.
Hope those that are traveling have safe trips, and those that are staying home have a fine time doing whatever they choose to do.
Cervantes
@Mr. Longform: Or it could be a joke.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Bob In Portland:
Like this description of a conspiracy theory loving commenter?
SiubhanDuinne
@skerry:
@Tommy:
And I had pushed hard for at least a few days in the Hebrides. Nice climbing and hiking (rambling) there.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Amir Khalid: True, it looks like combination of two American icons: Old Glory and Pac Man.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Baud: We get some serious ugliness from time to time. Cassidy’s attacks on BC are a recent example.
Cervantes
@SiubhanDuinne: One of my favorite parts of the world.
Mike E
Got a couple of “slow” shifts this weekend so I’ll be sorting photographs in my final stage of scanning all the negatives & old prints onto my laptop and into teh cloud. I’m damn near 3,000 images, yikes.
Just visited Miss E who is working at a restaurant and is looking to get into the local technical school. She’s thin as a rail but otherwise doing okay, so I did the dad duty of going thrift store shopping and feeding her twice. Hanged curtains, replaced batteries, didn’t lecture once… I would say it was a good visit!
Speaking of bicycles, mine has held up well on the short commute to work and back. The monster heat has held off for the most part and I’ve racked up quite a nice run of consecutive days without turning over the engine.
Oh, and Tommy…good call on the aeropress. I picked one up at my local World Market and it lives up to the hype. Thanks!
Amir Khalid
@Bob In Portland:
It has now come to light that Russia has troops in Ukraine, a clear violation of the latter’s sovereignty. I wonder if you have anything to say about that, rather than about a 44-year-old Bernardo Bertolucci film.
schrodinger's cat
Are you ready? They are here.
Bill E Pilgrim
@Amir Khalid:
I never realized people were that into tennis there.
Keith G
@Mr. Longform: @Mr. Longform: Craig Shirley’s hysterical (and easily refuted) claim had the effect of giving Pearlstein’s book another week of intensive and free roll-out publicity. In an interview with Terri Gross, Pearlstein acted very unperturbed about the topic. Maybe he is just returning the favor and showing a class act.
Mandalay
BJ pinup boldly asserts her right to follow orders and spout talking point….
She’s so fucking full of outrage and moral indignation on Wall Street, but when it comes to funding the occupation of stolen land….not so much.
Mike E
@Amir Khalid: Gawd, it’s always “Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine” with you! Obsess much? ;-)
eta Il conformista has the distinction of being one of the very best foreign films successfully dubbed to English…Das Boot being another notable example imo.
Ripley
If by familiar you mean stupid comments from some putz in Portland, then yeah, I suspect we’ll see plenty.
Cervantes
@Mandalay: Yes, that was disappointing, to put it mildly.
raven
It’s hot n’ mofo up in Athens!
gogol's wife
@cleek:
It is not possible to pack for a vacation without the cats knowing. You can just forget about that right now.
the Conster
I’ve always felt that Sept. 1 should be the real start of a new year – it sure feels like it, especially this year. I sold the house I’ve been living in for 17 years today, and am in vigil with my husband as his mother dies – probably tomorrow or Sunday. Transitions – I HAZ IT!
MattF
Nice NYT article on phobias:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/30/nyregion/with-intensive-swim-lessons-a-man-attacks-his-fear-of-water.html?ref=health
As a word lover, I was particularly pleased with this:
Steeplejack
@Amir Khalid:
Why do you hate
AmericaMalaysia?!SiubhanDuinne
@Cervantes:
Mine too. The Western Isles make my heart sing.
askew
@Mandalay:
Yeah, Warren’s answers there are horrible. Just about as bad as Hillary on Israel. But, is there anyone on the Dem side that is considering a presidential run that would have a better answer? The vote in the Senate was unanimous and went through without an exception from Sanders.
Sanders didn’t exactly cover himself in glory on Israel at this townhall either:
jacy
@cleek:
When I was a kid we had a bassett/pointer mix named George — the minute he saw a suitcase out of a closet, he would start to limp pitifully around the house. The cats never cared, as long as there was no interruption in the food supply.
Steeplejack
@Mike E:
What scanner are you using for the photos and negatives?
skerry
@raven: So I was told today that I need Mohs surgery on my nose. I’m pretty upset.
How are you doing? Any words of advice?
Keith G
@the Conster: Tough stuff. Wishing you and your spouse well.
muddy
@the Conster: My dog used to steal small things out the suitcase and hide them. Ha ha Mommy, can’t go away without underpants and socks!
Baud
@efgoldman:
Why no pictures?
FlyingToaster
Traditionally, Allston Christmas starts with a storrowed rental truck.
This year, it started with someone dropping a car into the Charles from the Cambridge side.
We’re grabbing another family and heading up to Peabody Essex Museum tomorrow. And pretty much staying on our side of the river until, oh, Wednesday. When school starts.
SiubhanDuinne
Digby and Perlstein had a chat (according to Digby, yesterday; for whatever reasons I’m unable to listen to the conversation on the iPad).
Hunh. And apparently I can’t even link the site. You can go to Hullaballo and look for the piece.
I’m interested because I am finally reading my way straight through Perlstein’s history-of-conservatism-in-the-U.S. trilogy*. I read bits and pieces of Nixonland a couple of years ago, but decided to start at the beginning and am about halfway through Before the Storm; when I finish that, I will read all of Nixonland with a better context; then and only then will I tackle The Invisible Bridge; and by then, FSM willing, the fourth volume tracking Reagan to the present day will be just about ready to be published.
*(or, as I hope, tetralogy)
muddy
@efgoldman: The week after SiubhanDuinne will also be in Vermont! Probably not a lot of call for a meetup in East Bumfuck though, so I guess we will have a party of 2.
Origuy
@SiubhanDuinne: I was staying on Oban and had a free day, so I took a tour to Mull, Staffa, and Iona. Didn’t see much of Mull except through the window of the bus from one end of the island to another, but Staffa and Iona were fantastic.
The first time I went to Scotland, I stayed in Speyside. A standing stone just down the road.
the Conster
@Keith G:
Thanks Keith G. She’s an amazing lady – smart, erudite, classy and extremely self-possessed. My daughters had two wonderful grandmothers growing up; my mother played games on the floor, played baseball with them and let them make cooking messes all over the kitchen, and Ann took them to the Unitarian church services every Sunday (she knew I wouldn’t, that’s for sure), took them for tea at the Ritz in Boston, took them to the Nutcracker every year and all the museums, overnight stays at hotels on the Cape in the middle of winter with an indoor pool, and bought them beautiful clothes. We’ve been blessed with her presence.
Cheryl from Maryland
Here’s some personal click bait — the NY Times reviewed the museum exhibition of which I was second in command. The exhibition is traveling after its NYC venue.
Anne Laurie
@Mandalay:
(sigh) Just when I have to leave the internet for a couple hours… Senator Warren may actually, personally, believe that Israel’s many political failings are being misused by overwrought bystanders fed propaganda by political operatives and anti-Semites. She would not be alone in her belief, if so. The urge to scapegoat Jews as the source of all the world’s evils is still a very popular — in every sense — trope, no less here in America than in the rest of the world.
I don’t have the time to parse millenia of tragic history, but at least give Senator Warren the autonomy of her personal convictions.
muddy
@SiubhanDuinne: I was given a slide projector this week, and instead of working of course immediately began looking at old slides I had not seen in 20 years (don’t worry, they are not on tap for you!).
I found some from when I got an old fisherman to take me out in his boat from one of those western islands. There was a small island offshore that was a big rock entirely covered with seals. When we neared it, the biggest male slid into the water and stayed between the boat and his island the whole time we were out there. He was fierce looking, quite the warrior.
the Conster
@muddy:
My old cat Finney who I had to put down in March, pissed on the carpet right near where he knew I would lay my head when I got home and comfortable on the couch. He did that a couple of times and just let me be honest here, cat piss + selling your house = FAIL.
Mandalay
@askew: Yep. Sanders and Warren are just as worthless as the rest of the Democrats when it comes to Israel. I see no daylight between their positions and those of Palin, Cruz, Cheney and Romney.
The only prominent politician who had displayed any huevos on Israel recently was Rand Paul, until AIPAC and a couple of beefy Mossad agents had a private word, and urged him to reconsider his position. Miraculously, he emerged from that conversation with a fresh point of view, indistinguishable from all the rest of the spineless sycophants.
In terms of being an effective organization punching way above its weight, AIPAC makes even the NRA look like amateurs.
Betty Cracker
@the Conster: She sounds like a wonderful lady. Peace, strength and courage to all.
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodinger’s cat:
In my head, I am hearing this as “Meow meow meow meow meow.“
muddy
@the Conster: My cat Morgana did similar, but she’d go down inside the bed and pee where you put your feet. Never know it until you stuck your legs in. Luckily it was a waterbed and it didn’t ruin the mattress. Not a nice surprise at bedtime!
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid: I’ve been in touch with the Malaysian patriotism police, and they’ll be paying you a visit shortly.
In the US, we have some who will throw conniption fits if you don’t stand for Lee Greenwood’s song, and I enjoy watching the conniption fits, it almost makes up for having to listen to it in the first place.
SiubhanDuinne
@the Conster:
May she have an easy passage. And {{{{hugs}}}} to you and your husband. It’s hard on those who stay.
muddy
@jacy: My dog had to get stitches on his back leg once, he loved the attention he got, and so he would pretend afterwards. Thing was, he couldn’t hold up the back leg for sympathy, so he just went ahead and switched to a front leg. If anyone asked him how his paw was, he’d go into long drawn-out carrying on over the tragedy of the paw. He’d go on as long as he retained the audience, and would work himself up into quite a state, shivering and moaning over it. So funny. I love when dogs lie, it shows intellect.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Villago Delenda Est: Armed Forces Network radio played that Lee Greenwood travesty and “Wind Beneath My Wings” about twice an hour during Desert Shield/Storm. It made me stabby.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Pretty hot in ‘Lanna today, too.
gocart mozart
@Betty Cracker:
The time frame seems about right. Her comment section was pretty good for a long time but gradually went down hill. Glad she cut them off. For the record, my guess was that she was a man. I blame the patriarchy for my wrong assumption.
Steeplejack
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
So, working as intended, then, in a military campaign. LOL.
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
It’s 101° here in Las Vegas right now, but it’s 8% humidity, so there’s that.
Mandalay
@Anne Laurie:
Well what are her personal convictions? Are you suggesting that they are any different to the ones she has publicly stated, where she is completely on the side of Israel, and in lockstep with every other prominent American politician who spew the same talking points?
Mike E
@Steeplejack: HP s20 photo smart…an oldie but a goody, prolly 14 years old, runs on Windows xp. Does well, tho it made me have to think on the best way to scan brownie negatives (slide mode, and only subjects that were crowded to on side due to format restrictions).
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
Glad you had fun last night, efg. I’m looking forward to both the Old Town Alexandria meet-up next Tuesday, and whatever get-togethers happen in New England. I think Anne Laurie is tentatively planning one for Boston on Saturday 13 September, but we haven’t yet got into niceties of time, place, you know, the trivial details.
I’m currently in that last-minute semi-panic state of trying to organize every tiny detail of my entire life before I leave town for three weeks (never mind that I’ve ignored most of the said details for years and years), making sure I’m packing everything that needs to be packed, for eventualities ranging from a Red Sox game to a couple of classical music concerts to BJ gatherings, and wondering if I shouldn’t just revise my will and buy a new car before I hit the road, just on principle.
muddy
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s perfect here. 75, not humid.
Jay C
Fun With Cars Day today here chez nous: the gas tank on our 44-year-old “classic” (1970 VW KGhia) picked last night to start to leak, filling the garage and half the house with the delightful perfume of decomposing 91-octane. And of course, the damn thing was near-immovable due to flat tires: fun getting it outdoors single-handed. Oh, and today was one of the few dead-calm-not-a-stir-of-wind days in a long time. Amazing how the fragrance of essence-de-petrole can linger…
SiubhanDuinne
@muddy:
I am so looking forward to it! By then, I expect I’ll be more than ready for a couple of days of thorough relaxation.
Villago Delenda Est
@Steeplejack: “It’s a dry heat”
/obligatory comment
SiubhanDuinne
@Origuy:
Staffa, those great pillars of basalt.
I fell in love with the Hebrides long before my first visit. When I was about 10 or 11, I was given an LP of the band of the Scots Guards, which include a medley of seven traditional Hebridean tunes. I was bowled over, and remain so to this day. Hebridean folk music has been a passion ever since.
SiubhanDuinne
@Cheryl from Maryland:
That is SO COOL! Congratulations!!
Jebediah, RBG
@Trollhattan:
Have you tried tire liners? I have had good luck with them.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Rachel Maddow is a big lying meanie, but Rand Paul’s sidekick is resigning from the McConnell campaign anyway
marian
@skerry: May I? I just had the stitches out of mine, on the side of the nose. Although it was pretty extensive, it was a piece of cake. Not very painful al all. Ice is your friend. One piece of important advice: make sure your surgeon is also a plastic surgeon or that there is one standing by. Even though mine was done only two weeks ago, nobody can tell, which was a big relief!
Good luck!
Oh also my surgeon (who is well known for not leaving a trace) told me to firmly press my thumb on the wound and massage it hard for three minutes a day. Although it hurts like hell, it’s supposed to build up collagen and prevent scarring. Don’t do this without your surgeon’s permission, but I thought I’d pass it on.
SiubhanDuinne
@muddy:
I would be more than happy to see them. Truth! Not just being polite :-)
skerry
@marian: Thanks!
I have a consult scheduled for Tuesday to get more information and to meet the surgeon that my dermatologist recommended.
Not having the relaxing weekend that I had hoped for. My anxiety level is through the roof.
SiubhanDuinne
@muddy:
Ha! I saw something, I think on FB, in the past few days (of course cannot find it now) that had a giant panda pretending to be pregnant so she could take advantage of the special food, more comfortable living quarters, general pampering, etc.
They may not be too good at e=mc^2 stuff, but a lot of animals are as smart or smarter than we are.
Southern Beale
So, this just happened:
Guess they tried the ol’ Friday news dump trick. They forgot about the internet, I guess.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steeplejack:
So it’s a dry heat.
Like cremation.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Right. Just happens to resigning right after the guy he bribed was convicted. Purely a coinkydink.
He’s slime, all his clients (past, present, and future) are slime.
SiubhanDuinne
@muddy:
Sounds blissful.
Southern Beale
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Oops sorry, Jim beat me to it!
geg6
Well, John has informed me that I’m a grandmother! Actually, the two stray cats we’ve been feeding and who live in our greenhouse have had two kittens in our garage (John stupidly left the door open the other night).
As for us, a quiet evening with some Crush wine and a pizza from the local place with the wood fire oven. Tomorrow is a girls day at my sister’s pool for me and some friends. Sunday is housework day since it’s supposed to rain. Monday is the family Labor Day picnic at the sister’s pool. I’m off Tuesday and expect to just lay around and catch up on the DVR. After this first week of classes, I need this time.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Southern Beale: it’s a small (for now) victory, but it couldn’t happen to rottener people, so it merits more than one post. I hope this make things sweaty for the Yertle. You never know what will catch on with voters, especially Southern mid-term voters, but ALG has won statewide office, and KY has a Dem governor, and even other Republicans say “nobody actually likes Mitch”, so let’s cross our virtual fingers.
Mike in NC
@Mandalay: The US Congress is 100% bought and paid for by AIPAC.
ranchandsyrup
Still hanging out in Sacto. Assembly concurred with the Senate Amendments on bills enacting groundwater regulation moving them closer. Even TX regulates groundwater.
Right now watching debate on bill requiring ID to purchase ammo. So much frothing at the mouth by the gunloon members. Member is reading the text of the 2nd amendment right now. “Members on this floor misunderstand and hate the 2nd amendment!”
shelley
@jacy:
Crap, jacy, that sucks. Here’s hoping for a good report.
Steeplejack (tablet)
@Villago Delenda Est:
Exactly.
Bob In Portland
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): @Amir Khalid: The comment on “The Conformist” isn’t about Ukraine. It’s about the posters here at Balloon Juice.
You will have noticed that the western media has a problem with its cell phone cameras. The only confirmation of Russian units in Ukraine by the MSM are of those nine paratroopers.
If you recall, as we went into last weekend the Ukrainian army was on the verge of conquering Donetsk and Lugansk. That from the same people who tell you today that Russia has invaded Ukraine. Also, the same people who assured you that MH17 was shot down by a Russian BUK SAM smuggled into Ukraine, manned by rebels, and then smuggled again across the border. You will recall that about a week or so back you said you were willing to wait to find out what the conversations between the air traffic controllers and MH17 was in the moments before the crash. The black boxes remain undisclosed to the public. Are you still willing to wait? Any curiosity at all?
Also, there have been reports of a unit composed of Polish volunteers in the Ukrainian army that was destroyed a few weeks ago. I saw a story about a fascist from somewhere in Scandinavia who’d joined with the fascist militias in the fight for “white Europe”. Don’t know where he is now. I remember back in the 90s there were volunteer Germans wearing Nazi insignia fighting alongside the Croats against the government of Yugoslavia, but I imagine that fascist volunteering is diminishing now, considering the news from the battlefront.
By the way, the US financed and trained anti-Assad forces. How much of that aid went to ISIS, or did ISIS magically become a military power by osmosis? Should we hold the US and Britain responsible for some of their sons joining the great jihad across the Levant? How responsible do we hold the royal Kuwaiti family for ISIS? You see how things get blurry when you try to hold one entity responsible for a war? Since we haven’t seen a full accounting of Nuland’s five billion, we don’t know how or where that money was spent, but I suspect it was spent on more than cake. Of course, we don’t see any accounting from the CIA, but I’m sure the good citizens of BJland would never suspect the CIA of secretly financing a revolution or coup or war, right?
NATO has huge stockpiles of weapons, and ships them wherever needed. We know from Iran-contra that NATO was supplying Iran with weapons off the shelf while Ronnie was telling the world that he would not negotiate with terrorists. And a good deal of their weaponry in stock is old Warsaw Pact stuff which is easier to hide in a war like this civil war in Ukraine. There was allegedly a shipment of such weapons airlifted from Poland in the last couple of weeks. Although no source in war is particularly reliable, I’d say that mine have proven to be more reliable than the NY Times. Then again, my sources have never had the opportunity to cowrite with Judith Miller.
Are there Russians fighting in Ukraine? Sure, and there are NATO people fighting in Ukraine. There is a hotel in Kiev whose top floor houses the CIA unit overseeing things in Ukraine. As far as who is aiding whom, I presume all the usual suspects have a finger in this.
I think that the problem with most BJers here is that they have been trained since birth to hate and fear Russia from its Soviet days. That’s why I suggested that people here read this awesome book on the birth of US’s post-WWII propaganda, in PDF form here. I’m sure when reading this some BJers may even recognize a few of the okeydokes they’ve fallen for over the years. There is allegedly a PDF version of Christopher Simpson’s book “Blowback” which should supply readers with a good background of the US-fascist post-WWII relationships in eastern Europe. There is this article from The Nation which discusses the US-Ukrainian fascist relationship going back to the end of WWII, here. I would think that if BJers had read those sources early on that they’d have a better understanding of the anti-fascist sentiments in eastern Ukraine.
But, of course, all BJers know that there are no fascists in the Ukrainian military, or in the government, and besides, there are fascists in Russia so there.
I would suggest that BJers who actually are curious about Ukraine and didn’t reach their conclusions yet should read the sources linked above. It’s American history. It would be unpatriotic not to read them.
muddy
@SiubhanDuinne: It’s funny how old slides just of random stuff seems “historic” on account of the cars. These slides are ’55-’75 for the most part. I’ve left it out for now because I have family etc coming for my birthday tomorrow and they will be into it.
shelley
@Origuy:
Isn’t Mull where the movie ‘I Know Where I’m Going” was filmed?
muddy
@SiubhanDuinne: It really is gorgeous this time of year, you have chosen well!
eemom
Closing arguments in former Gov & Mrs. Scumbags’ trial wrapping up in Richmond federal court at this hour. Next week should be interesting.
J R in WV
@jacy:
Good luck, once again, on your Tuesday appointment. Sleep well, thinking about maybe at 2 am is a bad thing. I do it too often!
I’m seeing the orthopedic surgeon on Friday about my shoulders, Physical therapy helped with some symptoms, others (pain) have come and gone. I’m thinking it’s the bone spurs.
gogol's wife
@shelley:
Roger Livesey! My idol! I don’t remember what island it was, but I think whatever island it is still has people doing pilgrimages there. (Not my kind of thing, although if I ever get to Oxford I’d like to trace some steps of Inspector Morse.)
schrodinger's cat
@SiubhanDuinne: When are coming to western Mass? You can contact me at my blog e-mail, [email protected]
gogol's wife
@eemom:
I love the way the NYTimes carefully avoids mentioning what party he belongs to. I had to google it.
gogol's wife
@shelley:
IMDB lists Mull as well as Argyll and Bute, Oban, etc. But I think the castle is on Mull.
Bob In Portland
@gogol’s wife: Do you wonder if there is a political reason for this?
Trollhattan
For we Californians, this might could be a BFD, presuming the Senate concurs and Jerry signs.
Y’all get that? California has never regulated groundwater and at present, only monitors certain groundwater basins.
ETA I see R&S is actually bird-dogging this one in real time, so caveats on the freshness and all.
Steeplejack
@Mike E:
Thanks. I started to think about getting a scanner to process my mother’s pictures while I’m out here (Las Vegas) for an extended visit. Soliciting input from all and sundry.
gogol's wife
@Bob In Portland:
I assume there is a political reason. Occasionally they mention it, but usually the entire lengthy article will say nothing about his party. I don’t think that’s normal practice. Is he so well known that we’re supposed to already know it?
Mandalay
Re the tragic shooting death in Nevada the other day, there is a sad but beautiful article in the NYT from a man who shot and killed his younger brother in a hunting accident when he was 12.
His insights are worth reading, but this part especially stood out:
It’s not just a person who dies when someone is killed.
shelley
That final clinch with him and Wendy Hiller is one of the best movie kisses!
jacy
@shelley: @J R in WV:
I’m just hoping they schedule the surgery really quickly, because feeling like John Hurt in “Alien” is starting to squick me out…. And I’m looking forward to some sleep, even if it’s just courtesy of morphine. The thing that makes me feel the worst is I’ve never left my dog overnight, and if it’s a 3-7 day hospital stay he’s going to feel like I’ve gone away forever. Luckily my oldest son is going to take extra care with him and probably feed him way too many snacks to try and compensate for his French bulldog neuroses.
am
Random question: are there any non-a*hole mil-bloggers worth reading? I can’t nearly as much information on what’s going on in Ukraine vs how much information there should be. I am surprised by the lack of news and analysis about how the US and Russia are waging a proxy conflict in Europe….
Tommy
@SiubhanDuinne: I got to tell here and then my dad I was thinking of going to Scotland. My dad kind of freaked out. He said going there was something I needed to do.
Lizzy L
Nothing. I’m doing nothing. OK, yeah, I am sleeping, eating, walking & feeding the dog, reading at church. I may go to my yoga class. Maybe.
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodinger’s cat:
Just emailed you (thanks for contact), it will be sometime during the week of 15 September. I have friends who live in Great Barrington, and expect to spend at least a night or two with them. Otherwise, my time is pretty much my own, and I would love to get together with you and any other Juicers who live in western Mass.
I am thinking (but have not yet decided one way or the other) of coming back home via Cooperstown (so I can pay tribute to Glavine, Maddux, and Cox, and other Braves in the HOF), and Binghamton to visit (a) a high-school classmate who has just retired as chair of the Linguistics Department at Binghamton University, and (b) a dear friend, former conductor and pianist, whom I knew when he was at the helm of the Flint Symphony Orchestra and who went on to lead the Binghamton Philharmonic for many years. Anyhow, if there are any BJ denizens around those areas, please let me know in case we can get together for a drink or meal.
WereBear
@jacy: Man, I feel for the long weekend/waiting for medical news.
Best wishes going your way.
Trollhattan
@Jebediah, RBG:
For my commute bike I usually use a combo of “armored” tyres and Slime self-sealing inner tubes. We’re infested wtih this stuff, which is murder on typical rubber.
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
True. There is something to that “But it’s a dry heat” thing, though. I’m still getting acclimated—been here since last Saturday night but haven’t been outside very much—but usually dry heat does feel less oppressive than heavy humidity, even at higher temps. In my prime Boy Scout years in west Texas (age 12-14), my friends and I used to go out into the desert behind our subdivision and bustle around all day in near-100° temps during the summer. Whereas in Atlanta, as you know, 90° with high humidity is “Shoot me now!” weather.
skerry
@jacy: Wishing you the best. I’ve been thinking about you. Putting positive energy up for you.
Loneoak
This letter to All Things Considered today approaches something like Poe’s Law for totebaggers. Is the letter writer trolling or sincere? (Obviously the second one is sarcastic, I mean the first one.)
It’s rather hard to tell, so … probably DougJ?
Trollhattan
@am:
Farley over at LGM is my first-order go-to guy. Then anybody he approvingly links to.
Also, too, Arms Control Wonk.
eemom
@gogol’s wife:
Ha!
OTOH, the WaPo I must confess has run a very good liveblog of the trial, which I’ve been glued to like “The Young and the Restless” when I was a teenager.
In fact, yesterday WaPo started blocking me because I used up all my free articles for the month, and it said I’d have to buy a subscription….but after having finally, FINALLY canceled the damn thing after 27 years, damned if I’m gonna give them another penny. So now I outsmart it by reading the blog on my Iphone, tee hee.
gogol's wife
@SiubhanDuinne:
I’d love to meet you some day. But I’m just a little too far from those places. I hope you have a great trip!
gogol's wife
@eemom:
It’s definitely a juicy story. The twists and turns in their respective defense strategies are dizzying.
Villago Delenda Est
@Trollhattan: So, it only took a drought crisis to persuade the CA legislature to do something that was a no-brainer in the first place.
Well, that’s good to know.
am
@Trollhattan:
Thanks!
Steeplejack
@Steeplejack:
Predicted high for tomorrow is 107°. Good times.
skerry
@Tommy: You definitely need to go to Scotland. You talk about your heritage frequently and so we all know it is important to you.
I did the trek back to the home village in the Highlands about 15 years ago. My father has the picture of me next to the road sign sitting on his desk. It is the only picture there.
Again, Ben Nevis (since you like to hike/walk/climb/amble) and Isle of Skye. And lots of whiskey tasting. The flavor varies widely depending on where you are and the amount of peat in the local water. I avoided haggis though. One can only go so far.
If you aren’t familiar with the history of the clearances of the Highlands, it is worth some reading before you go. It’s not widely known.
I’m insanely jealous that you have this opportunity. I look forward to the tales.
SiubhanDuinne
@geg6:
Okay, wait, cats can get pregnant from leaving the garage door open? They are even sluttier than I imagined.
SiubhanDuinne
@muddy:
Happy birthday, muddy!!
Betty Cracker
@Mandalay: Great article. Thanks for sharing.
eemom
@gogol’s wife:
They are just utterly despicable people, both of them. And the evidence is pretty damning from what I can tell….I’ll be surprised if they get off.
Of course, the best part is the public throwing — nay, hurling — of their marriage under the bus to save their respective asses. republitard “family values”, exhibit infinity-three.
SiubhanDuinne
@shelley:
Lovely, lovely film, and Wendy Hiller is one of my all-time favourite actors.
According to the Wikipedia article, filming was done on or from a number of Hebridean locations.
PsiFighter37
@Trollhattan: I feel like California, in the long run, is fucked because of climate change. Unless they figure out a way to build a ton of desalinization plants in an energy-efficient manner, they’re fucked. I love SF (and, to a lesser extent, part of LA), but there’s no way they can carry on in these drought conditions indefinitely.
That’s one of the main reasons I don’t want to move out there – I think the state (along with a good portion of the SW US) is simply going to disappear in my lifetime…with no water, there is no life.
SiubhanDuinne
@muddy:
I expect I’ll miss the peak of fall colour, but that’s okay, I can catch it a few weeks later in Ontario when I visit my cousins for Canadian Thanksgiving.
SiubhanDuinne
@Tommy:
Well, with your Scottish ancestry, it’s a natural. I hope this’ll be the first of many trips for you. I really think you’ll fall in love with the plac
Origuy
@gogol’s wife: That would be Duart Castle. You get a great view of it on the ferry from Oban. A friend was there at the same time; I ran into him on the ferry. His family name is MacLean, so it’s his clan’s headquarters.
My pictures of the islands tour. Duart is the castle in the second picture.
marian
@eemom:
“He took adversity like a man and blamed it on his wife”
Can’t find the source of the saying, alas.
Tommy
@SiubhanDuinne: I love the place. Love the place.
geg6
@SiubhanDuinne:
LOL! I seriously had no idea she was even pregnant! She didn’t look any fatter than usual. She seemed to be laying around our koi pond in the sun a lot but…well, she’s a cat! Who knew?
SiubhanDuinne
@Steeplejack:
We’ve been pretty lucky this summer in Atlanta. It’s been hot according to the thermometer (although not unbearably so, and not for extended periods), but mostly the humidity has stayed within tolerable ranges. First summer in probably a couple of decades where I haven’t felt just miserable and ragged out by 5:00 p.m. every day.
A couple of years ago (in the month of May, so not even summer yet) I drove to Phoenix. Most days it was up around 112°-113° and although it was dry, it was just fucking BRUTAL. I couldn’t live there, even with A/C (not even getting into Sheriff Joe Arpaio, Grampa Walnuts, Bullets & Burgers, and the general political suckitude of the state). You couldn’t pay me enough.
geg6
@eemom:
Seriously. The schadenfreude has been almost too much. Fuck them, two-bit grifters, both of them.
Trollhattan
@Villago Delenda Est: @PsiFighter37:
Pretty interesting, isn’t it? Was talking about this to a friend who’s a geologist for the Water Boards last night, specifically about the permanent damage from overdrawing an aquifer and how much storage capacity is lost when you try to recharge it. The basic answer, “Since nobody will tell us what the strata are we can’t say. And while there are rough estimates of how much total water is in a basin, nobody will say what the quality is and at what point the water can no longer be used. Maybe with fifty-percent left the water is worthless. It would be good to know.”
Yeah, it would be good to know.
SiubhanDuinne
@gogol’s wife:
Thank you! Likewise! I love to take long driving vacations, so chances are good I’ll be in your neck of the woods sometime in the next year or so.
Er … where exactly is your neck of the woods?
raven
@skerry: I’m fine and I wouldn’t worry about it. They took the stitches out this morning and the whole deal was just and inconvenience. Don’t look at the google images, it will just bum you out. My colleague had the nose procedure and brought photos in. You cannot tell she had it but the photo’s were awful.
PurpleGirl
@gogol’s wife: Besides tracing steps of Inspector Morse in Oxford, I’ve wanted to tour Shrewsbury and trace the steps of Brother Cadfael. At one time, IIRC, Shrewsbury even had a preplanned tour with people could take which hit the various spots mentioned by Brother Cadfael. It may a minor point of distinction for Oxford but a list of spots mentioned in the Morse mysteries would be nice to have.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@eemom: Hasn’t it been fun? I laughed and laughed, and wondered if I could make some of those defense arguments with a straight face.
SiubhanDuinne
@skerry:
I am not a big fan of any visceral organs (as food — I like ’em just fine when they’re in me, doing what they’re supposed to do), but the haggis is quite tolerable if the following conditions are met:
(1) It is piped in by a lone piper, loud and plaintive enough to drown out any sounds of incipient gagging.
(2) It is preceded by a large anæsthetising swallow of good whisky.
(3) The bite of haggis is only as large as simple politeness dictates (in other words, tiny).
(4) It is followed by a large swallow of good whisky to wash it down and get rid of the taste.
(5) Please note, the piper must continue to play throughout this exercise. Loudly.
GregB
This is a slap in the face to Jim Hoft.
SiubhanDuinne
@PurpleGirl:
Are you also a Dorothy L. Sayers fan? It’s great fun to walk through Oxford with Gaudy Night freshly in mind.
raven
@marian: Or, like me, don’t give shit how it looks.
Villago Delenda Est
@GregB: Who has one of the most eminently slappable faces in the United States, if not on the planet itself.
One of several natural poster boys for the illustration of Backpfeifengesicht in the dictionary.
Steeplejack
@SiubhanDuinne:
True, over 100° is brutal no matter where you are. I guess my (mild) point is that in an arid climate 90-99° is not as awful as it sounds everywhere else.
I really like Las Vegas. I’m not big on the glitz and the gambling, but off the tourist-trap Strip it has a good vibe. There are lots of great restaurants, the people are generally nice, the government seems relatively clean and competent, and at least here in Henderson there are a lot of rec centers, parks, hiking/biking paths, etc. I love the desert light and I even like the weird, pseudo-Mediterranean-Southwestern architecture with the fake-adobe stucco and tiled roofs. The traffic is a joke to anyone who has driven in Atlanta or Washington. The infrastructure seems to be well maintained, and the place is pretty clean (but in a vaguely Tatooine, “there’s sand everywhere” kind of way). The temperature is awful from May to September, but you can adapt, and the rest of the year the weather is great.
The one big negative—and it’s pretty much a deal-breaker for me—is the issue of water. And that’s only going to get worse, not just for Las Vegas but for most of the Southwest.
raven
@Steeplejack: It was 100 at 5:30 and that’s kickoff for the Georgia-Clemson game tomorrow. My seats are in the shade at that time of day so I got that going!
Steeplejack
@raven:
Be sure to slather on the sunblock, now that you’re a skin cancer poster boy.
dexwood
@Cheryl from Maryland: Cool. There is a Chuck Jones gallery an hour north of me in Santa Fe. At an art fair about 1990, Chuck Jones had the booth next to my wife’s. He was gracious and funny. I still have the Daffy drawing on a napkin he gave me.
PurpleGirl
@geg6: Are you going to have her spayed after she’s weaned her babies? I know it’s expensive but if she isn’t to keep having kittens, she needs to be spayed. You could try to find a vet who will do it at a discount or a has a deal with a shelter to do spays at low-cost.
raven
@Steeplejack: I had a physician friend (she died suddenly of an aneurism) whose husband was also a Nam vet. She said “It’s not IF you guys get skin cancer, it’s when”!
eta, but I am on the sunblock
Bob In Portland
My reply to Amir and the other guy was a little long, so it went to poster purgatory, but I presume since I don’t use BJ to sell anything, and I don’t curse, that it will eventually be posted. For now it awaits moderation.
SiubhanDuinne
@efgoldman:
I won’t even try to pick up I-95 until Richmond. As much as possible, I’m going to do the “blue highways” thing unless I get pressed for time.
Bob In Portland
@raven: I’m seeing a lot of Parkinson’s with Viet Vets in my age group.
PurpleGirl
@SiubhanDuinne: Years ago I tried reading Sayers and she didn’t click. I should try her again.
eemom
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
The closing argument by Bobby’s attorney this afternoon was particularly hilarious.
‘course, I’m not a gazillion dollar an hour white collar criminal attorney myself — however it seems to me that when your best argument is “but seriously folks, beyond a reasonable doubt is some really HARD shit to prove”, your client is, what’s the word, fucked.
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: You should hit it well north of Richmond.
SiubhanDuinne
@Steeplejack:
I’ve never been to Vegas (never been at all tempted, to tell you the truth).
And you’re right, high humidity makes any high temperature that much worse. I mean, I said those 113° days in Phoenix were brutal — I can only imagine what they would have been like had the humidity been 70% or higher!
rikyrah
Just finished having an italian beef/giardenera pizza for the first time.
Loved it.
SiubhanDuinne
@PurpleGirl:
She doesn’t for everyone. I happen to be a huge fan, but I do realize her style isn’t a good fit for a lot of people, and I’ve learned to live with that awareness ;-)
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
Yeh, probably. I haven’t studied the road map all that carefully yet.
Cervantes
@skerry:
Haggis is fine.
Deep-fried Mars bars, on the other hand, are not.
skerry
@raven: I thought I had lost most of my vanity, but now I am worried about what my nose will look like after all of this is done. I mean, it’s my nose. It’d be different if it wasn’t on my face. Why not a shoulder?
I’m not very good with uncertainty and struggle with mental health issues as it is. This, I did not need.
SiubhanDuinne
@Bob In Portland:
We will wait.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@rikyrah: Was it dipped?
StringOnAStick
@Trollhattan: Interesting; “caltrops”. The common name for that particularly nasty weed here in Colorado is “goathead thorn” because of the shape of that nasty, tire-destroying seed pod. It seems to like the hotter side of Colorado better, but it is getting established on some of the mountain biking trails here near Denver.
Violet
@Tommy: Don’t forget golf in Scotland. Since you’re a golfer you’ll probably enjoy checking out some of the courses. Different than the carefully manicured ones we’ve got here.
Bob In Portland
@Bob In Portland: Amir, I’m not sure where moderated posts go after purgatory, but its seems to have disappeared. My girlfriend called to confirm she’ll be late (spending time with friend whose pet died), so I’m going across the street to get some tacos for dinner.
I’ll check to see if it appeared when I get back.
gogol's wife
@SiubhanDuinne:
Central Connecticut. Not much to do here, but it’s close to a lot of places where there are things to do. And I don’t really like doing things anyway.
Villago Delenda Est
@dexwood: Chuck Jones IS A DEITY. Bow to hiim!
SiubhanDuinne
And now for something completely different.
Here’s how completely out of touch I am with popular culture. Until five minutes ago, I had no idea, I repeat, NO EARTHLY IDEA, that Channing Tatum was male.
In my mind, I think I must have been thinking of some combination of Stockard Channing and Tatum O’Neal.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@gogol’s wife: Nice history of witchcraft trials in Hartford and Farmington.
Villago Delenda Est
@SiubhanDuinne: Jeeze, I hope it’s not too long. Nothing is more offputting than a sea of grey on a blog comment page.
Be short, snappy, and comprehendable, I always say. Although I violate the rule on occasion. By not being short, or snappy, or comprehendable.
gogol's wife
@SiubhanDuinne:
He’s very male, my dear.
gogol's wife
Has there been a BJ thread on Angie and Brad getting married?
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Some of them were probably held in my church, although I don’t look into that too closely.
Violet
@SiubhanDuinne: He was People Magazine’s ‘Sexiest Man Alive” in 2012. You didn’t see the cover at the supermarket? I learn stuff about popular culture that way when I’m stuck in a checkout line at the supermarket. That probably makes me exceptionally lame.
SiubhanDuinne
@gogol’s wife:
Well, I will be driving through central Connecticut on Wednesday or Thursday next week, between seeing a friend in Easton, CT and seeing the efgoldmans (efgoldmen? efgoldpersons?) in Providence. Reply to my email with your phone # if you’d like to try to get together. No promises and no pressure, but if we can work it out it would be fun to meet you!
Cervantes
@Anne Laurie:
Maybe you could say more about those “many political failings”?
We can deal with “misused” and “overwrought bystanders” and “political operatives” and “anti-Semites” later, if you wish.
This sounds familiar. I may have heard it somewhere before.
Not sure what this means. Are you suggesting her critics should say it’s OK for her to be wrong provided she’s wrong for the right reasons?
eemom
@SiubhanDuinne:
I do have to confess that long distance driving in VA is vastly improved since the speed limit was upped to 65 or 70 on long stretches of 95, 64 and other roads, which happened during McD’s governorship. Don’t know how much credit he deserves for it, though.
SiubhanDuinne
@Violet:
Nope, sorry. I’m not much of a cook and often go a few weeks between supermarket visits, so I must have missed that particular issue.
SiubhanDuinne
@eemom:
Are you anywhere near Alexandria? Shall I have the pleasure of meeting you next Tuesday?
Villago Delenda Est
@Violet: No wonder I’ve never heard of him. I avoid People like I’d avoid Ebola.
Steeplejack
Continuing my Vegas theme—place-names. My brother’s house is in an area of Henderson called Mission Hills, just south of I-515. His subdivision is Black Hills Ranch, with predictably funny street names—e.g., Wild West Drive, Calamity Jane Lane, Silver Stirrup Court—among the “regular” names like San Bruno Avenue, San Jacinto Street, Santa Ynez Avenue, etc. Last night I was coming home from dinner a different way than usual and found myself passing a little one-block street called Gunman Way. LOL and WTF.
Had a really good dinner at Penn’s Thai House last night. Tonight is the buffet at Green Valley Ranch with a friend since college.
eemom
@SiubhanDuinne:
I’m not exactly near Alexandria, but I will try to make it on Tuesday.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Can’t recall if I mentioned it on a BJ thread, but some of my ancestors lived in Salem, Mass in 1692. I plan to head up there during one of the days I’m based in Boston and check out the town — hope it’s not too self-consciously “witchy.” AFAIK, none of them was directly involved with the trials, although most assuredly they would have had views.
SiubhanDuinne
@eemom:
That would be I avoided haggis though. One can only go so far. if you can!
SiubhanDuinne
@SiubhanDuinne:
The fuck?
Violet
@SiubhanDuinne: Oh, okay. I shop all the time because I cook almost everything from scratch. So I’m at the supermarket several times a week, especially if the garden isn’t producing anything.
SiubhanDuinne
@eemom:
That would be great if you can!
(This is what I intended to say in my weird post #198.)
Villago Delenda Est
@Cervantes: Perhaps in the case of Israel today we’re dealing with the aftereffect of centuries of boys crying wolf.
SiubhanDuinne
@Violet:
Well, I guess if I want to be au courant I should take up cooking!
gogol's wife
@SiubhanDuinne:
Salem is nice. Where do I find your e-mail? I’m not sure I can meet up on Wed or Thurs, but it would be nice to chat.
PurpleGirl
@gogol’s wife: How close are you to Danielson (CT)? One of the kittens cams I follow is located there. Cassie Packard lives there and has a shelter in her apartment. In October she’s doing a pet adoption event in Hartford that I’ll be going to help her with.
Violet
@Villago Delenda Est: He’s not just in People Magazine. He was in “Magic Mike” and did all the talk shows for that. He was also in “21 Jump Street” and whatever the recent sequel is called. He used to be a male stripper, apparently, so he was perfectly cast for “Magic Mike.”
eemom
@gogol’s wife:
Are you near New Haven? I went to school there, though I don’t actually know if it’s Central Connecticut. Which believe it or not is not the most ignorant thing I’ve ever confessed to on this blog.
gogol's wife
@PurpleGirl:
I’ve heard of Danielson, but it’s not in my immediate area. I think it can’t be too close since I don’t know where it is.
gogol's wife
@eemom:
It’s considered southern Connecticut, but it’s near here, since Connecticut is so small. I used to live there.
Anne Laurie
@Mandalay: Your original comment started “BJ pinup boldly asserts her right to follow orders and spout talking point….”, which would imply Senator Warren is only “following orders” and doesn’t actually believe there might be more than one Correct Opinion upon a very far-ranging topic.
It’s possible for an American and a generally progressive person to think that both the current rightwing government of Israel and the current leaders of Hamas are in the wrong, and also that a lot of “progressive” Americans are, at the very least, excusing the perennial toxic undercurrent of anti-Semitism that wells up every time the word Israel is spoken.
Violet
@SiubhanDuinne: Or at least supermarket shopping.
gogol's wife
@Violet:
I believe the sequel is wittily called 22 Jump Street.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@SiubhanDuinne: We are probably related. I have a lot of ancestors in the Salem area – most came over between 1629 and 1636. In Salem, I have witches, accusers, judges, and those who objected to the trials in the good old family tree.
ETA: There is touristy stuff in Salem and there is some real history too. Check out the Peabody Essex Museum.
Kropadope
@Anne Laurie:
There, better.
Violet
@gogol’s wife: So original!
SiubhanDuinne
@Tommy:
@Violet:
Years ago I spent a few weeks at the University of Saint Andrews for a summer course. My dorm room, in Hamilton Hall, looked out on the Royal & Ancient — I could see the clubhouse easily from my window, and if I craned my head out just a little, I could see the North Sea.
Because it is such a northerly latitude, and it was high summer, there were golfers finishing their rounds at 11:00-11:30 at night, and teeing off again around 3:30-4:00 a.m. I don’t think I ever closed the windows the entire time I was there, so heard them clearly at these insane times of night.
SiubhanDuinne
@gogol’s wife:
My email is SiubhanDuinne (at) gmail (dot) com.
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
The acorn falleth not far from the oak tree.
Edit: That is roughly the period my own ancestors came over. Yes, we probably are distant cousins.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@raven: Zinc oxide on that fresh scar man.
Anne Laurie
@GregB:
AKA, “The Dumbest Man on the Internet”, and he keeps defending his title. From comments on a WaPo article, he’s now flogging the “Obama secretly plotting to have airborne-Ebola-carrying Messicans walk acrost our borders!!!” trope…
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): @SiubhanDuinne: The PEM currently has a Turner and the Sea exhibition.
ETA: Only through September 1, though.
eemom
@Anne Laurie:
Holy shit. Not only do I totally agree with you; I think this is the only intelligent comment on this subject that’s been made here all summer.
[plotz]
SiubhanDuinne
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Oh, sad, I won’t be there in time. Sounds like a nice show.
Anne Laurie
@SiubhanDuinne:
It can be, if you’re looking for it, but from my occasional visits, mostly during October. The trolley tours are actually worth the money, IMO; I’ve ridden one twice, at five-year intervals, and the guides were very informative. Not least about the economics behind the witch trials… it wasn’t just uppity older women that were targeted, but uppity women (& some men) who had property the town fathers felt deserved to be in better hands…
Kropadope
@eemom: Well, now I know what it means to plotz, thanks Google. My guess was this was an onomatopoeia for a wet poop.
Anne Laurie
@Kropadope: If you intended to stake a claim among the “defenders of people using current politics as an excuse for their anti-Semitism”, sure.
Hatred of THA JOOOS has infected our political discourse for going on two millenia. Pretending that it miraculously disappeared just in time for “us” to start hating Israel as the Worst Country in the World is naive at best and anti-Semitic at best.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Anne Laurie:
One of my convicted ancestors was the daughter of a minister opposed the trials and was married to a wealthy young man who became unable to manage his affairs due to illness. She was given control of his estate until her sons came of age. This happened about four years before the trials. A youngish woman who controlled more wealth than many men in town and had a bit of a gadfly for a father. Might as well paint a target on her back. She survived because she was pregnant at the time of her conviction. By the time she gave birth, the frenzy was over.
Cervantes
@Anne Laurie:
Palestinians (and Arabs generally) are Semites — so referring to them and their advocates as anti-Semites is not precisely kosher, if you’ll pardon the expression.
That aside, it would be ludicrous, I’m sure you agree, to assert that progressives who criticize Israeli policy are thereby “excusing” some evil being perpetrated against Jews.
SiubhanDuinne
@Anne Laurie:
I’m not doing this trip specifically as a genealogical visit, although when and as I have the opportunity I’ll try to get in the odd hour or so of ancestor-hunting. One branch of my family is from Royalton,VT, not all that far from Muddy, so I hope to pay at least a quick visit to the genealogy room in their public library.
This trip is truly a get-acquainted excursion. I intend to set foot, at least, in all six New England states just so I can say I have. What I see (and what I don’t) will inform future itineraries. Another year I will probably head straight for Maine, which I will see only fleetingly this time, and thence to Canada’s Atlantic provinces. I thought hard about including the Maritimes on this trip, but it was just too time/money-consuming to do this year.
Thanks for the suggestion about the Salem trolley ride. I’m always glad to put myself in the hands of local experts when I go to a new place. (Notwithstanding the charming young guide I had once on a trip to Paris during which she gestured with that ineffable Gallic je ne sais quoi and announced, “That is where Marie Antoinette was waiting to be headed.”)
ETA punctuation.
Anne Laurie
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): When you visit, you might actually enjoy the hideously touristy, 50s-style dioramas at the Salem Witch Museum. (Before anyone comments on my taste, I was with a friend from the Midwest who wanted the full tourist experience!)
Origuy
On the subject of Scotland: this weekend is the Pleasanton (CA) Highland Games, the biggest ones in the country. I’ll be on the Scottish Country Dance stage at 3:30 on Saturday, if anyone wants to stop by. We’re just a social group, so don’t expect much. The Red Thistle Dancers, the local performance group, will also be there.
Haggis will be available, but not mandatory.
Mandalay
@Anne Laurie:
Not at all. There are multiple explanations for Warren’s comments:
[1] She believes that only presenting the Israeli perspective is appropriate, and the all the phrases she employs amazingly just happen to closely match phrases used by other politicians of both parties in support of Israel.
[2] She believes that only presenting the Israeli perspective is appropriate, and it is no coincidence that all the phrases she employs happen to closely match phrases used by other politicians of both parties in support of Israel.
[3] She has no strong views on the Israel/Palestine issue, and follows the path of least controversy.
[4] She does not believe that only presenting the Israeli perspective is appropriate, but she does it anyway.
Based solely on the actual comments she has made, #2 seems most likely to me, and yes, I think she is acting under orders (as is Rand Paul). But any of the other options are plausible, and none of them speak well of her. Whatever her reasons, she had a golden opportunity to present a non-blinkered view of the issue and she blew it.
Kropadope
@Anne Laurie: Hey, lots of people hate lots of other people different than they are. I try to respect people regardless of any of these perceived differences. I’m not the one here trying to tie my opinion of a government’s policies together with my feelings of the majority religion of the people living under that government (long meaningful glare at Anne Laurie). Why you gotta paint with such a broad brush?
Last I checked, I never declared Israel the worst country in the world, nor did anyone in this thread that I’ve noticed. Also, would you mind citing an example of me defending anti-Semitism?
Until you do so, in honor of the Palestinian people (who I understand to be a Semitic people), I will consider you selectively anti-Semitic and myself consistently pro-Semitic, regardless of nationality.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Anne Laurie: I love that place in a totally ironic, hipsterish way.
Anne Laurie
@Cervantes:
Agree that we left-of-centrists need a new word for the old sin of Jew-hating.
But far too much of the “progressive” commentary on Israel’s present actions is, at the least, contaminated with ancient tropes about those people. Just as we’re all “a little bit racist”, it’s extremely difficult to avoid being “a little bit anti-Jewish”, just by osmosis.
And the same “progressives” now condemning Israel will be the first to jump (back) on the bandwagon when the media reminds us that “those filthy Arabs” are anti-woman/anti-gay/anti-secular/anti-Americans…
Villago Delenda Est
@eemom: What I object to is the knee-jerk charge of antisemitism that is the first resort of those who defend Israel no matter what atrocities it commits.
SiubhanDuinne
@Origuy:
I’m at the wrong end of the country, but I love Scottish country dancing! The Dashing White Sergeant! Mairi’s Wedding!
Kropadope
@Anne Laurie:
I don’t suppose an example is forthcoming?
Cervantes
@Anne Laurie:
Yes, the old jargon — “anti-Semitism” — served in Europe when Jews sought to defend themselves from being isolated as Semites and mistreated.
When applied to the Middle East today, however, it’s just another way to deny the identity of Palestinians and Arabs, another way to make them vanish. I think we’ve had quite enough of that.
“Far too much”? I have found that this kind of vague generalization undermines discussion. Indeed I have found it is often designed to do so. If you wish to offer specific examples instead, perhaps we can discuss them. There may be less Jew-hating in the discourse than we are often led to believe.
Cervantes
@SiubhanDuinne: There is much to learn in Salem. Most visitors spend an afternoon there, or at most a day. If visiting with young children, this is ideal. For adult education, it is insufficient.
James E. Powell
Rachel Maddow has a “Why We Did It” special running. Why is this on Friday night? Was this on before and I never saw it?
I forgot all about Dick Cheney’s secret energy policy meetings. Do you all remember? Can you imagine President Obama holding secret meetings with private citizens and refusing to tell the public what was discussed?
Kropadope
@James E. Powell:
Well, Biden would be the relevant comparison but, aside from that quibble, if that were ever to happen our lovely media would have beaten that horse to death plus 25%.
Randy P
@James E. Powell: Oh yeah, I remember. And how we the American People did not have the right to know who was making our energy policy. And about the “man-sized safe” he had. And all the documents containing who knows what that were shredded, no doubt against federal records-retention law, when he left office.
tybee
@SiubhanDuinne:
was very pleasant here on the coast as it has been for the past week.
Cervantes
@James E. Powell: Not only do many remember his corrupt rule-making, many protested it in real time. Not that it mattered: the poor EPA officials who had to deal with scientific objection and public outrage were allowed no authority whatsoever to remedy the situation.
This was in the summer of 2001 — in a political climate that can be difficult now to recall.
Jebediah, RBG
@Violet:
Opposite, I think.
Tehanu
@Bob In Portland:
My #1 favorite movie ever. Every shot a Renaissance painting and Jean-Louis Trintignant at his peak.
@SiubhanDuinne:
Scotland in August = Heaven. Especially Argyll and Sutherland. And Perth.
@Origuy:
Try Mull in more depth next time. We got out of our car on a one-lane road with nobody around but sheep and the scent of heather, and I’m pretty sure that’s what it smells like in, well, Heaven (yes, I know I keep saying this!)
@skerry:
Haggis is the Scottish equivalent of kishke and if made properly is delicious. Just avoid the kind they have in the refrigerator case! God only knows what kind of ghastly factory manufactures it. Find a decent restaurant (country hotels are usually good) and have it there.
I don’t have time to read this whole thread but I just had to put my 2 cents in about Scotland. Joy to all of you who’ve been or are going.
satby
@SiubhanDuinne: I always said haggis is one food I wouldn’t regret not having a chance to taste.
And then I went to Glasgow. And had it deep fried. With some sort of horseradish-mustard sauce, I think. And amazingly, it was delicious.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Bob In Portland: Your “purgatory” post is out now.
Maybe you can keep track of that link and just post it when you get the urge, again, to teach us all about the CIA and the Fascists. More efficient that way, right?
Thanks!!
Cheers,
Scott.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Villago Delenda Est:
My position precisely. It’s part of the reason AIPAC makes the NRA look like pikers, and may refer to Israel as the 51st state. Opposing Israeli government policies and actions is not anti-Semitic* but that’s a good way to shout down opposition.
*The term is used recognizing that there are Semitic people besides Jews, a large number of whom are subject to current Israeli atrocities.
::backs slowly away from the discussion::
SiubhanDuinne
@satby:
Horseradish-mustard sauce would make just about anything palatable.
But don’t forget what I said about the whisky.
Sterling
@Anne Laurie: But far too much of the “progressive” commentary on Israel’s present actions is, at the least, contaminated with ancient tropes about those people.
This would work better as an idea if the discussion at issue invoked traditional negative stereotypes about Jewish people like sneakiness, secret plots, rape and murder of Christians, greediness, etc. The modern complaints involve Israeli governmental policies that are considered incompatible with a modern free state. These are issues of modern human rights in general and minority rights in particular. Racial stereotypes and traditional anti-semitism isn’t a factor at all.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Bob In Portland: Truly a masterpiece of disingenuous argument. Well done.
SiubhanDuinne
@tybee:
Do you actually live on Tybee? A dear friend of mine lives there. She is renowned as a kind of “dolphin-whisperer” and has written two or three books about them. Every day during the season she goes out in her yellow kayak (“Buttercup”) and just hangs out with the dolphins. She recognizes a lot of them individually, from year to year, and their behaviour tells her that they also recognize her, greet her, put on shows for her, and even introduce her to their babies.
Mandalay
@a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q):
Exactly; that absurd claim mirrors the way FoxNews talks about “playing the race card” when discussing racism.
Mandalay
@Anne Laurie:
You must have caused a world shortage of straw with that giant strawman.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Mandalay: And yet, if you go back and read some I/P threads, you will see some commenters start referring to the actions of Jews rather than Israelis or expressing surprise that American Jews have a wide range of views on the I/P conflict. A gentile anti-semitism does lurk under the surface of some of those who are left of center. It may not be all-consuming and it probably does not implicate the majority, but it is there.
Roy G.
@Anne Laurie: FFS, nice job playing the old ‘anti-semite’ card, as dogeared as it has become from so many years of overplay. It’s a red herring to complain about the extent of perceived anti-semitism versus the ever-increasing perception that the state of Israel has gone way out of bounds in its collective punishment of the Palestinians, and Gazans in particular. Relativists have to ignore the magnitude of death and destruction generally perpetrated by Israel, and the tissue-thin and ever-changing rationale for this latest ‘mowing of the grass.’
But don’t take my word for it. You probably think Elie Wiesel is an authority, but did you catch the ad that 273 Holocaust survivors placed in the NY Times to condemn Israel’s actions and protest Wiesel’s unbounded support of Israeli brutality in Gaza?
http://observer.com/2014/08/ny-times-runs-ad-from-holocaust-survivors-condemning-israel-attacking-elie-wiesel/
Now, would you say we need a new word for ‘self-hating Jews?’
Mnemosyne
@Sterling:
Not exactly — as Omnes said above, the insidious thing is when people assume Israel=All Jews and that American Jews are monolithic in their support of Israel, which is absolutely not the case. In some people’s minds, it easily slides from Israelis think this/support this policy to Jews think this/support this policy, as though there were some kind of hivemind controlling, well, all Jews.
In that link, note which religious group thinks (by a large margin) that the US is not supportive enough of Israel. It ain’t Jews.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Roy G.: Was there any defense of the current Israeli government or Israeli policy in any of AL comments? No, there was not.
Violet
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I think this partly because of the problem of having a country founded on a religion. In this case it’s Israel, which calls itself “The Jewish State”. It’s very difficult to separate the state from the religion.
There are close ties between Jews not in Israel and the Israeli state. Organizations like Taglit-Birthright Israel offer free ten day trips for young adults to go to Israel. Their goal is to strengthen the relationship between Jews around the world and the state of Israel.
Passover seders conclude with “Next year in Jerusalem.” Although that phrase can be interpreted non-literally, Jerusalem is a real place. You can go there. And it’s in Israel. The religious tradition actually includes a statement saying that next year the believers do that tradition in Israel.
And then there’s Israel’s Law of Return:
You can have Israeli citizenship–a governmental concept–if you are Jewish or of Jewish descent–a religious concept.
It's little wonder "Israel" and "Jews" get used interchangeably, as incorrect as that may be in many cases.
Mnemosyne
@Violet:
Okay, I realize this is because I’m irredeemably frivolous, but that made me think of the big second-act closer from Book of Mormon, “Sal Tlay Ka Siti,” especially since one of the other characters later tells her that Salt Lake City doesn’t really exist, it’s just a metaphor … and that character is kind of right.
Mnemosyne
@Mnemosyne:
Oh, fer … can someone release me from moderation? I have no idea what my crime was — are YouTube links verboten right now?
Violet
@Mnemosyne: Is there a forbidden word in the URL? Too many links?
Mnemosyne
@Violet:
I don’t think so, unless FYWP has now decided that talking about Book of Mormon is forbidden. Stupid WP, ruining my joke!
/shakes fist
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Violet:
Christian communion uses the the phrase “the Body of Christ” when distributing Communion wafers. Jesus was (probably) a historical figure. It’s still symbolic. The majority of Jews don’t live in Israel; they are citizens of their respective countries. As loyal and patriotic as the next guy. I think smart people – in which category I place the vast majority of commenters here – should be able to differentiate between Israelis (who are Jews) and Jews in general.
Violet
@Mnemosyne: The mysteries of FYWP! Sometimes you just don’t know why it does what it does.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Violet: BiP would blame the Gehlen Org.
Roy G.
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Right, which is all too often the goal of playing the anti-semite card, to deflect any criticism of the Israeli government’s actions, especially during the Netenyahu regime.
My point seems to support yours from a different angle. I know many American Jews who are appalled at the actions of the State of Israel vis a vis the Palestinians. Unfortunately, they are smeared by their co-religionists with epithets like ‘self-hating Jew’ and worse because they don’t toe the line that has been set for them. Referring to Violet’s post, I think the conflation is by design, and it’s unfortunate that the State of Israel claims to be the state of all Jews while it commits atrocities such as it has. Tikkun Olam is a beautiful thing, building settlements is not.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): No, she just strongly suggested that criticism of the Israeli government can only derive from naivete or anti-Semitism. Since the Israeli government is indefensible but she needed to justify her blind support, she turned to ad hominem. Then she made several statements accusing “progressives” of broad anti-Semitism without citing a single example.
eemom
I will not get sucked into Israel arguments on this blog again, mostly because time is a precious resource that I refuse to waste.
But I will say that I am impressed as hell by the point AL made on this thread, considering how brain dead most of the audience is to its validity.
Brave, AL.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Roy G.: Two sides of the coin, I guess. I do have to say that I have been appalled at some of the anti-semitic phrasing I have seen come up on I/P threads on this blog. I am not going to go back and find it, but if you look at some of the I/P threads you may notices my calling it out at the time. I hold no brief for the actions of the Israeli government wrt the Palestinians, but I also hold no brief for blaming all Jews for the actions of the Israeli government.*
*Full disclosure: I am not Jewish in either religion or ancestry. I have dated a number of Jewish girls in my time.
Kropadope
@eemom: If you’re talking about the same brain-dead quote you cited earlier, no one denies the atrocities of Hamas or that there’s plenty of blame to go around in the situation. However, unlike Hamas and other bad actors in the region, Israel does this with the funding and support of the United States government.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Kropadope: No. She did not. She said this:
You can disagree with it, but don’t mischaracterize it.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): It’s funny, I linked to the very quote I was referring to and your response is to ignore that and cite an entirely different quote. Nice deflection.
Violet
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
I agree with your statement. However, I don’t think the state of Israel agrees with you that there is a difference. I have the impression they think all Jews are Israeli citizens, whether they have formalized that relationship or not. I think that’s part of the problem.
As a Jewish person you can’t really disavow the state of Israel because the state of Israel won’t let you. I mean you can, but they don’t care if you do. You’re still eligible to be an Israeli citizen. You’re kind of an Israeli citizen-in-waiting.
It reminds me of a friend who is ticked off that he was baptized as a baby. He’s anti-organized-religion as an adult. And he’s ticked off that this ritual was done without his consent. In the eyes of the church he’s a member of the club. He never asked to join it and he wants to renounce his membership in it but he can’t. The baptism seals the deal.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): He could blame the Stonecutters if he wanted to make a run for some credibility.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Kropadope: I see. I’ll do it this way then. Your interpretation of what AL strongly suggested is suspect. I didn’t read it that way. I then go back to her original comment that you”fixed” for her. That’s the one I linked. She flat out says that it is perfectly reasonable to disapprove of the actions of the Israeli government. And then in the comment that you linked, she did not say that criticism of Israeli policy can only stem from anti-semitism or naivety. She did say that it is naive to think that anti-semitism has disappeared to such an extent that we can discount it in these discussions.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Villago Delenda Est: Those fuckers made Steve Guttenberg a star. Don’t mess with ’em.
Roy G.
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Full disclosure, my wife is Lebanese. We have together and separately many Jewish friends, and I have always been careful to target my criticism to be towards the Zionist Right-wing movement. I can’t speak for others, but the Israeli government could have the coin flipped on them and be accused of holding all Jews as human shields for their nationalist land grab.
My beef with Anne Laurie is my perception that the pulled out the anti-semite card to deflect criticism of Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton. The best that can be said about them is either ‘all politics is domestic,’ and they might be ignorant of what is really happening on the ground in Gaza. But then again, the cynical point of view has substantial weight when you look at how cowed our entire political establishment is by the Govt of Israel and AIPAC.
Thanks for the correspondence, and I mean that. It’s hard to discuss this subject, and i’ve done it so much over the years that I retired to lurk-only mode.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
I think that’s a good take on it. For example, Pat Buchanan may object to what the Israeli government does, but we have to wonder if that’s not just because they’re JOOOOOS, since Pat has a long and colorful history of being, how shall I say this, less than aware of events in Central Europe in the middle of the last century, to the point of outright denying that documented events ever happened.
It’s not like he cares one way or another how many Palestinians are slaughtered because hey, nominally they’re Muslim, and therefore as untermenschish as the JOOOOOOS.
That certainly does run under the surface for some.
Me, I’m sick and tired of asshole WASP banksters shucking off their behavior onto convenient ancient scapegoats for unsavory banking activities, and the usual suspects enthusiastically joining in as the WASP banksters laugh their way to…well, the bank.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Roy G.: My beef is with people who conflate Jews with Israelis. Or even Christians with the rabid fundamentalists running around the US. My mom is an avid churchgoer and believer who is a solid lefty vote on any issue and as open minded and can be about anything but criticism of her grandchildren. Let us be precise with our criticism and attacks. You are welcome, btw, I appreciate the implied compliment.
Donald
@Anne Laurie: I’d think much better of her if those are not her personal convictions. I can understand a politician pandering to AIPAC–nearly all of them do, for reasons best explained in the latest issue of that noted hotbed of anti-semitism, the New Yorker.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Villago Delenda Est:
The people I know wo went into banking were Italian and Irish in ancestry. A good number of the WASPy (old school) folks I know went into non-profit management and teaching. Or law.
Villago Delenda Est
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Jamie Dimon’s grandfather was a Greek banker who immigrated to the US. The founder of Bank of America was of Italian ancestry. So ethnic labels are rather useless. I just feel better about bashing my own ethnic group :).
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Villago Delenda Est: My undergrad has rather deep connections with CitiBank. The son of one of our presidents was chairman of the bank. The president of my fraternity when I pledged was the son of that Citibank guy’s vice chairman. And so on…
Donald
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): The problem is that AL came into this thread defending Senator Warren’s remarks on the latest Gaza War and implied that people who disagreed with Warren might be anti-Semites or misled by propaganda. Warren, of course, was reciting Netanyahu’s own talking points on the Gaza slaughter. Among those who disagree with her on this are those noted anti-semites at Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch,and the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem.
It’s fine to criticize both sides in Gaza–both sides deserve criticism. Warren’s remarks were disgraceful and AL defended them.
Donald
BTW, of course there are anti-Semites who criticize Israel. If you spend much time on this subject online you’ll probably spot a few (or maybe more than a few, but I don’t hang out at neo Nazi sites). But there’s really no excuse for acting as though antisemitism is the main reason why progressives might criticize Israel. Warren’s comments were so extreme on the pro-Israeli side she is either incredibly ignorant on what human rights groups say (who are critical of both sides), or, more likely, she’s just spouting the same line most politicians in America feel they have to spout.
Mnemosyne
@Villago Delenda Est:
Italian bankers were very common around the turn of the last century when there were a huge number of immigrants from Italy who didn’t trust American banks and preferred to have their fellow countrymen watch their money. We had a major family scandal back in the day when my grandfather’s uncle opened a bank and then scarpered back to Italy with the proceeds, leaving the rest of the family on the hook to pay back the depositors (this was in the pre-FDIC days).
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Donald:
I think AL response was more nuanced than you suggest. She suggested that Warren was not simply parroting doctrine, but that she had agency. This may well make Warren’s comments worse. AL did not defend the substance of the comments. You should probably go back and reread the comments in question.
Donald
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): She said this–
Sounds very much like she is defending Warren’s remarks and thinks it perfectly reasonable to attribute criticism of Israeli actions in Gaza to political operatives, anti-semites, and overwrought bystanders misled by them.
Anyway, time to go to sleep.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Donald: We obviously differ on this. To me, Al did not ever defend the substance of Warren’s remarks. She never said she agreed with Warren. She just said that Warren may well be speaking from the heart and not parroting AIPAC doctrine. And, as I have noted above, those on the left are not immune to falling into anti-semitic tropes.
Violet
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): In AL’s original comment you are correct that she suggested Warren had agency. And that may indeed be worse. In AL’s second comment she said this:
“the perennial toxic undercurrent of anti-Semitism that wells up every time the word Israel is spoken.” Bolding mine. I don’t agree that every time the word “Israel” is spoken that an undercurrent of anti-Semitism wells up. I believe that looking at the situation from that perspective colors the entire view. Discussion of Israel will then be seen as having an “undercurrent of anti-Semitism” where that may not exist.
Because of the difficultly in separating the Jewish people, the Jewish religion, and the state of Israel, as I discussed above, any discussion of Israel is going to be challenging. A challenging discussion on difficult subjects does not mean there is also anti-Semitism.
That is not to say that anti-Semitism doesn’t exist. It does. And it can be an issue and a problem in this situation. But it can also be something to fall back on or an insult to hurl back when it may not apply. Disagreeing with what Israel does does not necessarily make someone an anti-Semite.
It’s a challenging subject for sure.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Violet: It isn’t that challenging. I don’t really think that is it is as difficult as some suggest to separate Israel’s actions from Jews in general. YMMV, but to me Israel and Israelis are one thing, and Jews are another. The Venn diagrams may overlap, but there is nothing like a perfect circle.
Violet
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I think it should be that easy but in practice it’s not. It can be clear in your own mind but not everyone sees it that way. A person who criticzes Israel is seen by some as an anti-Semite. It’s where the “self-hating Jew” label comes from for Jews who criticize Israel’s actions. It should be easy to speak of Israel as a state and separate from Jews but it’s not that simple.It’s the Jewish state. They’re tied together.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Violet: We disagree. I know many people capable of drawing those lines. More than do not. YMMV.
Rex Everything
@Anne Laurie: @Anne Laurie:
99% of the time I think you’re great, AL, but just now I have to call BULLSHIT as loudly as possible.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Rex Everything:Why? If you want to call bullshit, then say why.
Rex Everything
@Roy G.:
You mean 273 Jew haters, indulging that millenia-old Jew hating, doncha?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Rex Everything: Good god, you don’t really mean that. Right?
Rex Everything
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Sorry; I intended to quote this:
…and call bullshit. Why? Because holy fuck, what bullshit.
Anti-semitism is what urges B’Tselem to publicize the massive disproportion of Israeli violence against Palestinians; anti-semitism animates the likes of Philip Weiss, Amy Goodman, and Noam Chomsky to document & publicize Israeli atrocities; anti-semitism is the lifeblood of Max Blumenthal’s journalistic agenda; et cetera. This is beyond ridiculous.
Rex Everything
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):Good god I don’t.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Rex Everything: And yet real anti-semitism exists. And what you had intended to quote really doesn’t matter, since you didn’t actually quote it – right? Your failures aren’t my problem.
@Rex Everything: Well then.
Rex Everything
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
And no one here or anywhere made so much as the merest hint of a whisper of a faint fleeting suggestion of denying that. Yet it remains beside the point.
Well, I did the second time. So at this point, I have actually quoted it, and it is now part of the discussion.
Kinda why I began that post with the word “sorry.” But, I don’t know, you give the impression you’d fight your own shadow at the moment. Maybe you should go to bed.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Rex Everything: No one could really respond to something you hadn’t gotten around to saying. What are you defending? No one says that Israel is right. People have just said that arguments that blame all Jews are invalid. That’s it. Do you have a problem with that?
Rex Everything
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
No, that’s not “it.” Anne Laurie said anti-semitism rears its ugly head every time the name of Israel is mentioned. And that is fucking bullshit.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Rex Everything: I agree with her that it comes up insidiously in every thread in which the I/P conflict is discussed. And now I am actually going to go to bed..
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
“Probably does not implicate the majority”?
Actually, it “implicates” no one except those who voice it.
Cervantes
@Roy G.:
“Semite-anti-Semite”?
Even with subjects as grim as these, sometimes you just have to laugh at human folly.
Q: What did Hitler say to Eichmann when they met in Hell?
A: “If I’d known you were coming I’d have baked you a Kike.”
(It’s from a collection of Jewish humor. Obviously.)
Cervantes
@Mnemosyne:
Just FYI, there’s no “hivemind” controlling all Israelis, either, especially when you consider that many Israelis are Arabs — so your argument needs a tune-up.
Cervantes
@Violet:
True.
And increasingly so over the last fifty years — if it’s not already impossible.
Cervantes
@eemom: Thanks for your concern about my time. I appreciate it.
Cervantes
@Mandalay: Quoting:
Technically, she’s right: the question is a live one. Should the middle-class voters she fights so hard to protect keep paying for the Israeli state’s defiance of international law? Or should she go so far as to oppose and defund the illegality? It’s a veritable dilemma.
Yes, it’s a shame the article did not quote the nuanced explanation she must have offered for not wanting to go so far as to oppose outright illegality.
Donald
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I think she pretty clearly is defending Warren’s remarks as reasonable and they aren’t. They represent Netanyahu’s view and even on settlements she is in effect willing to let them continue.
But the larger issue here is the invocation of anti-semitism every time someone criticizes Israel’s human rights violations–it’s actually a form of bigotry in itself, as it implies that Palestinian rights simply don’t matter that much and if people criticize Israel it’s probably because they have anti-semitic motives. If someone expresses an anti-semitic sentiment or in some other way clearly indicates that anti-semitism motivates his or her critique of Israel, then yes, bring up anti-semitism. But when it is brought up as a generic way to dismiss harsh criticism, then it’s really a disguised form of anti-Palestinian bigotry. That, in my opinion, is the form of prejudice that pervades this issue in the US, far far more than anti-semitism. Warren herself may not believe what she says, but her expressed views show utter contempt for Palestinian rights.
Incidentally, I’d vote for Warren if she got the nomination or in the primaries, if she decided to run. She’s the lesser of various evils. (I gather she has said she won’t run.) But I’d probably spend much of the campaign years complaining about her anti-Palestinian bigotry.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mandalay:
Meh.
I don’t think Warren (or Sanders) would vote to start a preemptive war against Iran to “protect” Israel as I don’t doubt that P,C,C and R would love to do. I could be wrong, but I doubt it…
There are substantial differences between the parties on their support of Bibi’s government even if they “vote” the same way on meaningless “sense of the Senate” resolutions and the like. (Unanimous Consent isn’t really a vote in my book.)
Sensible politicians pick their battles.
And to be clear, I think too many of Bibi’s actions, policies, and statements are craven war-mongering and dehumanizing. He’s not acting in what I think is Israel’s long-term (or even medium-term) interests. The US House and Senate is too supportive of those policies. But a foundation must be built in order to get him to change those policies. (Yes, that foundation-building should have started long ago.) Warren (or Sanders or Obama) weakening themselves won’t help the larger goal.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Bob In Portland
@BGinCHI: Gee, my comment went to moderation too and it never came back. Sorry, Amir and other guy.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Bob In Portland: Check #100.
Cheers,
Scott.