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Balloon Juice

Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

Damn right I heard that as a threat.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

How stupid are these people?

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

You know it’s bad when the Project 2025 people have to create training videos on “How To Be Normal”.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Jesus watching the most hateful people claiming to be his followers

We need to vote them all out and restore sane Democratic government.

Boeing: repeatedly making the case for high speed rail.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

Also, are you sure you want people to rate your comments?

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

And now I have baud making fun of me. this day can’t get worse.

The party of Reagan has become the party of Putin.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

The low info voters probably won’t even notice or remember by their next lap around the goldfish bowl.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

“A king is only a king if we bow down.” – Rev. William Barber

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

It’s easy to sit in safety and prescribe what other people should be doing.

It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership.

“In this country American means white. everybody else has to hyphenate.”

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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Saturday Morning Open Thread: Silly Season, Still

Saturday Morning Open Thread: Silly Season, Still

by Anne Laurie|  August 30, 20145:15 am| 186 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Republican Stupidity, Assholes

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@jbarro This color pic.twitter.com/bgj2YJnwJW

— John Tabin (@johntabin) August 29, 2014

As my Irish granny once said of a similar jacket, “it’s a cowhide wrapped round a boar-pig.” Shut up, Pete King, you idiot bogtrotter:

President Obama’s ugly beige suit has quickly gone from stupid joke — “The president stands squarely behind the decision he made yesterday to wear his summer suit,” the White House press secretary said today — to stupid faux controversy thanks to who else but Long Island Republican Representative Peter King. “There’s no way, I don’t think, any of us can excuse what the president did yesterday. I mean, you have the world watching,” said King on right-wing internet TV today…

***********
Apart from that, what’s on the agenda for the day?

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Reader Interactions

186Comments

  1. 1.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 30, 2014 at 5:21 am

    In other news. the Onion declared satirical bankruptcy yesterday.

  2. 2.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    August 30, 2014 at 5:23 am

    Tweety noted on his show yesterday that Saint Ronald of Reagan wore tan suits on many occasion. Then again, he was not near.

  3. 3.

    Arclite

    August 30, 2014 at 5:23 am

    Damn, woman, you get up early. I haven’t even gone to bed yet.

  4. 4.

    Anne Laurie

    August 30, 2014 at 5:25 am

    @Arclite: Nor have I, but I’m on my way now!

  5. 5.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 30, 2014 at 5:32 am

    With four cuts remaining, Sam still a Ram

    Lots of chips fell Friday once the team returned to St. Louis from Florida. The Rams confirmed that they have made 17 cuts. Throw in the fact that wide receiver Stedman Bailey won’t count against the roster because of his four-game NFL suspension, and that leaves only four more players to be cut to reach the 53-man regular-season roster limit.

    The Rams didn’t release those 17 names, but Sam’s name is not on the list. Neither is defensive end Ethan Westbrooks, who is Sam’s main competition for a spot on what figures to be one of the league’s top defensive lines in 2014.

    If Sam does get cut, somebody will pick him up. Or should anyway.

  6. 6.

    PurpleGirl

    August 30, 2014 at 5:33 am

    From that picture it appears that Peter King wore a mustardy-gold jacket, with a charcoal gray sweater and a blue shirt. His pants were probably black or charcoal gray to go with the sweater and contrast with the jacket. He probably thought this looked casual and not too dressed up. His IRA friend (whose name I forget) is dressed much more formally in a black suit, white shirt and red foulard pattered tie. (The blue handkerchief in his pocket doesn’t match the tie.)

    As I see President Obama’s suit it isn’t a true tan (not enough brown) and it isn’t khaki (no green in it); it’s almost an eggshell or ecru. And it looks good on him. Which is the important point and if he’s comfortable in it, then that is what matters. Whoever wrote that NY Mag article knows nothing about color. (I’m a yarn person and a beader, color is something I think of a lot and must be able to accurately describe for both crafts.)

  7. 7.

    Tommy

    August 30, 2014 at 5:35 am

    That is Peter King isn’t it.

  8. 8.

    PurpleGirl

    August 30, 2014 at 5:42 am

    Time for me to shut down the computer for a little while and grab a nap. Talk to you folks a bit later in the morning.

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 30, 2014 at 5:48 am

    @PurpleGirl:

    His IRA friend (whose name I forget)

    Gerry Adams, leader of Sinn Fein.

  10. 10.

    Amir Khalid

    August 30, 2014 at 5:54 am

    That picture seems to be quite old, maybe going on 30 years. Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams’ hair has gone entirely grey by now.

  11. 11.

    Alex S.

    August 30, 2014 at 5:56 am

    Is it because the tan suit makes Obama’s face appear darker?

  12. 12.

    raven

    August 30, 2014 at 6:12 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Any tips on my AC? It was barely blowing cool at all. I crawled under the house and the large refrigerant pipe was iced over. I turned the unit off and put the fan on manual for about 1 1/2 hrs. Turned it back on and it blew cool for a while and then dipped back. My filters were dirtier(dog hair) than I thought and I replaced them. I rigged a gizmo on my wet-dry to try to clean out the condensate drain but not much came out. It’s not a good time to get my HVAC guy out. I turned if off all night and plane to leave it alone until early afternoon.

  13. 13.

    Anne Laurie

    August 30, 2014 at 6:14 am

    @PurpleGirl: On my monitor, it looks like Rep. Pete’s jacket is made of that hideously unflattering heavyweight suede which was so popular in the 1970s/80s. And Gerry Adam’s pocket square looks a shade of pale teal, which seems to pick up on an accent in his tie pattern.

    Adams, at that time, was trying to look like a respectable upper-class person, not a lowly terrist, but a person fit for legislative responsiblities. King, then and still, wants to look like the “successful working class” firefighter/cop/small building contractor that represents his ideal voter.

    On the other hand, probably it looks much better in person, but I have to say that in the pictures I’ve seen, the President’s summer suit is not a shade flattering to his skin tone. There are many shades of beige, and IMO one tinting (subtly, of course!) more red & less blue would better highlight his complexion — on the monitor, the material reads too grayish, it makes him look ashen.

  14. 14.

    Hal

    August 30, 2014 at 6:22 am

    Josh Barro needs to grow his beard back. He looks 12 when he appears on MSNBC.

    The suit needs to be better tailored. It really does remind me of David Byrne in the Once in a Lifetime video. But Peter King must have some serious brain damage if he’s really legitimately upset over the suit.

  15. 15.

    Baud

    August 30, 2014 at 6:36 am

    I can’t wait until we have a female president so we can stop having these stupid discussions the president’s attire.

  16. 16.

    satby

    August 30, 2014 at 6:57 am

    @Baud: It’ll be 24/7 OMIGOD PANTSUIT for 4-8 years.

  17. 17.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 30, 2014 at 7:02 am

    @raven: Not an AC guy so my knowledge is limited, Did you hose out the exterior unit? (grass and leaf particles) Doesn’t sound like you are having a difficulty outside, but do it anyway.

    I crawled under the house and the large refrigerant pipe was iced over.

    This should not happen. The line should be insulated all the way from the ext unit to the air handler (otherwise known as a “furnace”). You can get pipe insulation (black, 1/2″ or 3/4″ or 1″ interior diameter with a slit on one side) at most hardware stores. You do need to do this. Might even be the problem.

    Open up the air handler and check out the A-coil (look for where the freon lines enter the unit, should be at the top or if you have a horizontal unit, towards the outflow side) and see of anythings appears to be amiss. Like what? I don’t know. Blockages I guess, dust build up etc (filters are supposed to take care of this) The A-coil is where the freon cools the air as it flows through the A-coil. Turn on the fan to see that the air is flowing freely (should be, can’t see how it wouldn’t, but check the obvious simple things too is my rule) There may be a safety switch on the panel you removed to look at the A-coil. If so, it should be easy to bypass.

    I got nothing after that. Hope it helps.

  18. 18.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 30, 2014 at 7:05 am

    @Baud: Heeheehee. Got my giggle for the day.

  19. 19.

    ThresherK

    August 30, 2014 at 7:11 am

    @raven: The condensate drain pipe, if placed in a certain way and of a certain diameter, may attract mice to nest.

    That’ll clog it up but good.

    (Don’t ask me how I know.)

  20. 20.

    Shakezula

    August 30, 2014 at 7:11 am

    Because nothing says I’m a manly he-man from the No Pooftahs! party like dishing about what someone wore.

    I’m getting ready to spoil my morning with a Pilates class. But later – the library.

  21. 21.

    Raven

    August 30, 2014 at 7:13 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: The exterior unit is under my deck a protected. There is just a short run of uncovered PVC pipe that was frozen and I’ll have to go back down to see what was what. I’ll check the rest out when I do that. Thx

  22. 22.

    Raven

    August 30, 2014 at 7:15 am

    @ThresherK: yea, this is a particular bear because it runs under a floor I put in years ago. My termite guy wants the wood floor gone so I may tackle that too!

  23. 23.

    Chet

    August 30, 2014 at 7:16 am

    Further adventures in post-racial America:

    http://www.metafilter.com/142338/The-problem-is-Im-black-Thats-the-problem

  24. 24.

    Botsplainer

    August 30, 2014 at 7:25 am

    There’s a fascinating little civil war that has blown up in the homeschooling asylum. RWNJ Michael Farris wrote an article in which he called the Duggars dangerous and finally spoke up about the Quiverfull/Patriarchy loons being the cause of a lot of misery in the homeschooling community. Of course, the Quiverfull/Patriarchy crowd commands probably 40% of homeschooling, and about another 30-40% are Quiverfull/Patriarchy curious (or at least sympathetic).

    http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2014/08/the-binary-is-collapsing.html

    Wingnut tears tasting of the sweetest, finest ambrosia, I highly recommend following Libbyanne’s links back to the HSLDA Facebook page for the anguish.

  25. 25.

    ThresherK

    August 30, 2014 at 7:33 am

    Hey, fellow Juicers: I only heard of Kevin Kline as Errol Flynn in a biopic-drama yesterday.

    If anyone sees this movie, let me know what you think.

    I have a particular weakness for 1) Kevin Kline and 2) movies about old-school Hollywood (“Hollywoodland”, “The Cat’s Meow”), but the notices on this aren’t at all promising.

  26. 26.

    Nicole

    August 30, 2014 at 7:35 am

    Work today, then having a couple of friends over for karaoke (shut up, it makes us happy to be idiots in the privacy of our own home). It’s rubbing off on the 4-year-old; I caught him singing along to “Overkill,” which he tells me is his “second favorite” Men At Work song.

  27. 27.

    Wally Ballou

    August 30, 2014 at 7:44 am

    @Anne Laurie: Adams, at that time, was trying to look like a respectable upper-class person, not a lowly terrist, but a person fit for legislative responsiblities. King, then and still, wants to look like the “successful working class” firefighter/cop/small building contractor that represents his ideal voter.

    “Ronald Reagan, of course, doesn’t need to affect the establishment style, sensing accurately that his lowbrow, God-fearing, intellect-distrusting constituency regards it as an affront (which, of course, to them it is). Reagan’s style can be designated Los Angeles (or even Orange) County Wasp-Chutzpah. It registers the sense that if you stubbornly believe you’re as good as educated and civilized people—i.e., those Eastern dudes—then you are. He is the perfect representative of the mind and soul of the Sun Belt. He favors, of course, the two-button suit with maximum shoulder padding and with a Trumanesque squared white handkerchief in the breast pocket, which makes him look, when he’s dressed way up, like a prole setting off for church. Sometimes, for leisure activities (as he might express it), he affects the cowboy look, which, especially when one is aged, appeals mightily to the Sun Belt seniles. One hesitates even to speculate about the polyester levels of his outfits.”

    — Paul Fussell, Class

  28. 28.

    Poopyman

    August 30, 2014 at 7:45 am

    @raven: When ours iced up it turned out it was because it was low on coolant. No leak found, and adding some cured the prob. Hope yours is as simple.

  29. 29.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 30, 2014 at 7:48 am

    @Nicole: Everybody loses when only the beautifully voiced are allowed to sing. At the MVORs (caver gathering) there is the infamous Club 69 in which all are encouraged to sing. We have a really good time and there is a beauty to the voices one will never hear at the Grammy’s.

  30. 30.

    WereBear

    August 30, 2014 at 7:48 am

    @Botsplainer: I saw that. Are they actually trying to pull back the cray cray? And just how much luck are they going to have with that?

  31. 31.

    Hillary Rettig

    August 30, 2014 at 7:50 am

    After Cheney famously wore a parka to the ceremony for the liberation of Auschwitz, the GOP should shut up about clothing choices forever.

  32. 32.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    August 30, 2014 at 7:58 am

    So what’s with all these allegedly straight guys caring about how another guy dresses? There are times the GOP comes across as scorned lovers more than anything else.

  33. 33.

    RSA

    August 30, 2014 at 8:13 am

    @Baud: Oh, good one.

  34. 34.

    Botsplainer

    August 30, 2014 at 8:15 am

    @WereBear:

    I saw that. Are they actually trying to pull back the cray cray? And just how much luck are they going to have with that?

    Somewhere between slim and none. The Quiverfull/Patriarchy homeschoolers make up a huge percentage of homeschoolers, and they’re a noisy bunch of whiny assed titty babies when they’re happy. When angry, they make the Hulk seem mild mannered.

  35. 35.

    PurpleGirl

    August 30, 2014 at 8:22 am

    @Baud: Are you kidding? The discussions or comments from the Villagers will be even worse: Should she wear pant suits, a dress or dress/coat combo, etc.? Didn’t the Rethugs roast Hilary was FL over what she wore. It would be worse if she became president.

  36. 36.

    PurpleGirl

    August 30, 2014 at 8:33 am

    @Anne Laurie: Good comments AL. Thanks. Yeah, monitors are bad for true color presentation.

  37. 37.

    big ole hound

    August 30, 2014 at 8:33 am

    I am amazed that some Juicers do not recognize sarcasm…anyway, I hope all weekend travel is local and hassle free.

  38. 38.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    August 30, 2014 at 8:37 am

    Whew! Obama really dodged a bullet on the whole “tan suit” issue. It suit color distracted the RWNJ natterers so that they didn’t even notice that he was wearing a European tie.

    You can tell because of the stripe direction. American ties go the other way. Why, it’s like wearing a secret EU flag lapel pin, and is like 1000% more scandalous than BENGHAZI!!!

  39. 39.

    WereBear

    August 30, 2014 at 8:40 am

    @Botsplainer: That’s the central problem. Everybody has difficulty admitting they are wrong. Wingnuts have extra difficulty.

    So for a wingnut to admit they’ve been wrong for decades… simply has a vanishingly small chance of happening at all.

  40. 40.

    debbie

    August 30, 2014 at 8:45 am

    @Anne Laurie:

    I think King’s jacket looks like Harvest Gold Naugahyde. Very ’70s.

  41. 41.

    skwerlhugger

    August 30, 2014 at 8:49 am

    @Baud: …and move on to the hair. Or, in HC’s case, move back to the hair.

  42. 42.

    Botsplainer

    August 30, 2014 at 8:53 am

    @WereBear:

    On every social issue of import – abolition, suffrage, ensuring economic and political access, desegregation, integration, affirmative action, gay rights – RWNJs have been on the losing side, kicking and screaming.

    They never admit being wrong.

    Decades after losing, they’ll decry the use of government power to rectify the consequences of their choices.

    The wingularity will come when there is significant self-reflection, the sort that should have happened in the aftermath of Appomatox.

  43. 43.

    dmsilev

    August 30, 2014 at 8:55 am

    @Botsplainer: From the white paper, I love this paragraph:

    Take the voting example. If women should not vote, it means that Vickie Farris is to be in subjection to men like Bill Maher, Dennis Rodman, and Bill Clinton. Nothing in the Bible can possibly be twisted to expand the duties between a husband and wife in a loving marriage to reach the conclusion that Bill Maher can vote but Vickie Farris cannot.

    You could probably fill out most of a Wingnut Obsession Bingo card from just those two sentences.

  44. 44.

    Patrick

    August 30, 2014 at 9:06 am

    President Obama’s ugly beige suit has quickly gone from stupid joke — “The president stands squarely behind the decision he made yesterday to wear his summer suit,” the White House press secretary said today — to stupid faux controversy thanks to who else but Long Island Republican Representative Peter King. “There’s no way, I don’t think, any of us can excuse what the president did yesterday. I mean, you have the world watching,” said King on right-wing internet TV today…

    Our country deserves a better opposition party…

  45. 45.

    bemused

    August 30, 2014 at 9:06 am

    Louie Gohmert said we have Barney Fife running foreign policy. I can’t stop laughing.

  46. 46.

    Baud

    August 30, 2014 at 9:08 am

    @dmsilev:

    Nothing in the Bible can possibly be twisted

    Hmmm.

  47. 47.

    gnomedad

    August 30, 2014 at 9:10 am

    It’s fun to imagine the Prez was trolling for precisely this reaction.

  48. 48.

    WereBear

    August 30, 2014 at 9:15 am

    @gnomedad: You just can’t go through life wondering what the wingnuts will make of something.

    Like grade school bullies, they don’t even need a shadow of an excuse. They will simply make fun of your good qualities.

  49. 49.

    Elizabelle

    August 30, 2014 at 9:16 am

    The DC meetup Thursday was wonderful. There were four, count it, four of us. We’ve got two pictures; thinking on putting them up with roundup post after TUESDAY’s DC meetup, this September 2nd.

    Pleasure meeting, eating, talking and imbibing with Mr. and Mrs. efgoldman (doting grandparents and she is a wicked good soprano, the singing kind) and boatboy, improvisational charm and stories aplenty. Very good evening.

    Annie: will you put up the Balloon Juice meetup announcement again Sunday? Want to make sure folks know about Tuesday night at Murphy’s Irish pub in Old Town Alexandria, 7:00ish to whenever.

    Hope Labor Day weekend is off to a good start for all of us.

    Fastest summer on record, it seemed to me.

  50. 50.

    MrSnrub

    August 30, 2014 at 9:17 am

    Just spent a week in Cape May, heading back to reality (and my job search now). I have 6 things lined up for next week, so it’s promising at least. I’m just not ready to stop pretending that I need to do a search…

  51. 51.

    Josie

    August 30, 2014 at 9:17 am

    This is interesting. I am surprised it took so long.

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/texas/article/Border-Patrol-agent-fires-at-armed-militia-member-5722505.php?cmpid=bna

  52. 52.

    Elizabelle

    August 30, 2014 at 9:19 am

    @Shakezula:

    And on Tuesday, the DC (ok, Northern Virginia) meetup, if it’s convenient for you!

  53. 53.

    danielx

    August 30, 2014 at 9:20 am

    It burns! It burns! The stupid, it burns! It’s too early in the morning for this much stupid on display!

    @dmsilev:

    Nothing in the Bible can possibly be twisted…

    Nor yet contradictory.

  54. 54.

    ruemara

    August 30, 2014 at 9:28 am

    It’s a nice tan suit, what the hell is wrong with people? I’m about to go get my sweat on at the gym, come back & do some laundry & unpaid OT. If some friends don’t drag me out to brunch first.

  55. 55.

    raven

    August 30, 2014 at 9:33 am

    @Poopyman: Ran into a HVAC guy at my Saturday am hangout at Normal Hardware and he’s coming over!

  56. 56.

    PurpleGirl

    August 30, 2014 at 9:34 am

    @ruemara: Have a good workout and I hope you get dragged out to brunch.

  57. 57.

    PsiFighter37

    August 30, 2014 at 9:34 am

    @Elizabelle: If it’s been fast from my perspective, it’s because it’s been the most pleasant summer in NYC that I can recall in 20 years of living back here. I can count, on one hand, the number of unseemly hot and humid days there have been. It has been cooler than usual (weather in the low 80s for the most part, and even a good number in the 70s), and surprisingly very little humidity to speak of. I think it’ll get a bit crappy towards the end of tomorrow and Monday, but it’s been great overall.

    I just need to cross my fingers that it doesn’t rain during my wedding (we have an outdoors ceremony and cocktail hour) in two weeks. Hard to believe that it’s almost here.

  58. 58.

    PsiFighter37

    August 30, 2014 at 9:36 am

    Also, it will be a very, very happy day for me when Peter King decides to retire and stop being a stain on the NY congressional caucus. The only thing worthwhile he’s done that I can recall is chew out Marco Rubio after Hurricane Sandy in the way a parochial, old-school New Yorker can. Otherwise, he’s been less than worthless.

  59. 59.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 30, 2014 at 9:49 am

    @Patrick: No we don’t.

  60. 60.

    OzarkHillbilly

    August 30, 2014 at 9:53 am

    @raven: Talking to somebody who actually knows what they are doing? Who’da thunk it!!!

  61. 61.

    Shakezula

    August 30, 2014 at 9:59 am

    @Elizabelle: I’ll try to make it, sorry I missed EFG.

    The summer seems short because we didn’t have weeks of suffocating fug interspersed with world-ending thunder storms.

  62. 62.

    Amir Khalid

    August 30, 2014 at 10:00 am

    Maybe Obama could try wearing this, which might be familiar to him from his childhood in Indonesia (and his recent visit here). They do look quite dashing.

  63. 63.

    Mike in NC

    August 30, 2014 at 10:02 am

    Sounds like Hillary needs to start purging her walk-in closet ASAP!

  64. 64.

    Tommy

    August 30, 2014 at 10:06 am

    @PsiFighter37: I hear you. A mild summer. Here in southern IL it can get 100 most days. There were days it was in the 70s as a high. Happy about that.

  65. 65.

    Fort Geek

    August 30, 2014 at 10:09 am

    @raven: Sucky time of the year for AC troubles. This guy says iced pipes are either low freon or no air flow through the indoor coil. Let it defrost and see if it gets better after the filter’s changed.

    Hope it’s just the filters being clogged.

  66. 66.

    grandpa john

    August 30, 2014 at 10:09 am

    @Poopyman: Yep, had the same problem with mine and also once with a refrigerator.

  67. 67.

    xian

    August 30, 2014 at 10:16 am

    oh hey look they’re talking about the color of the president’s… clothes.

    getting warmer

  68. 68.

    Fort Geek

    August 30, 2014 at 10:17 am

    @debbie: King’s jacket looks like he bought it from a Century 21 realtor.

  69. 69.

    Nicole

    August 30, 2014 at 10:21 am

    @OzarkHillbilly: Our karaoke machine is well-designed, then. It will rate you on a score of 1 to 100, but not on how well you sing; it scores based entirely on how much you actually sing into the microphone. For low-stakes things like karaoke, I am a big fan of giving an A for effort.

    I was humiliated for my poor singing voice by a music teacher in 4th grade. In front of the entire class! At-home karaoke has been marvelous for both improving my ear and reminding me singing is supposed to be fun.

  70. 70.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 10:51 am

    @Anne Laurie:

    what’s on the agenda for the day?

    Well, re that discussion about Senator Warren, anti-Semitism, and so on: I left a few comments some minutes ago — and now I’m off to Walden Pond for a dip and a read and a picnic.

  71. 71.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 10:52 am

    @Baud: The fire next time.

  72. 72.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 10:55 am

    @Wally Ballou: Thanks. That was discomfitingly satisfying.

  73. 73.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 11:00 am

    @Nicole: Good for you. Have fun!

  74. 74.

    Elizabelle

    August 30, 2014 at 11:02 am

    Free and cool DC event today: the Library of Congress National Book Fair, at the Convention Center. (Mt. Vernon metro stop; yellow line). Through 10 p tonight.

    Creative nonfiction panel at 12:45 (I think); evening panels on “Movies to Books” (including EL Doctorow) and Graphic Novels (pretty much simultaneous, sadly). Also evening poetry slam and program on 3 major Mexican writers.

    Tumbrelists: hurry over if you want to sneer at Cokie Roberts (noon to 12:30; she has a children’s book, hopefully not on critical media skills). Mr. Andrea Mitchell is being interviewed by a gazillionaire as we speak/blog, whatever.

  75. 75.

    gogol's wife

    August 30, 2014 at 11:03 am

    @PurpleGirl:

    WTF is wrong with that suit? This is the first time I’ve looked at a picture of it. It’s a nice color and cut. He looks perfectly fine. Who wears black suits in late August? I don’t get it. I HATE THESE PEOPLE! The best president in my lifetime, and he’s treated like “an unruly footman,” as someone said.

    ETA: I mean Obama’s suit, not King’s.

  76. 76.

    Elizabelle

    August 30, 2014 at 11:04 am

    @PsiFighter37:

    Yeah, the weather has had a lot to do with it. Also your wedding planning, traveling and imbibing.

    Good luck to you as the nuptials draw closer and closer.

  77. 77.

    Elizabelle

    August 30, 2014 at 11:06 am

    @gogol’s wife:

    “Unruly footman.”

    Imagine if he turned up in livery at some point, a la Django (Unchained)’s first unfortunate costume misfire.

    I just hope he and Michelle laugh, loud and constantly, over cocktails and catching up in the evening.

  78. 78.

    Elizabelle

    August 30, 2014 at 11:08 am

    @Shakezula:

    Oh, I hope so. You wuz missed.

    RE: weather and T storms: summer lasts through September 21. Maybe we’ll have it go out like a …. usual DC summer.

  79. 79.

    Kathleen

    August 30, 2014 at 11:08 am

    @Wally Ballou:

    Love your handle! Is that a hat tip to Bob and Ray, one of my all time favorite comedy duos?

    I ran (with some walking mixed in) about 10 miles this morning in very soupy weather. Headed off to birthday party this afternoon after going to the store. I’m also eagerly anticipating Maureen Dowd’s column tomorrow on Obama’s tan suit. She’s such an original thinker. (That is snark).

  80. 80.

    RaflW

    August 30, 2014 at 11:25 am

    This newspaper is crap, but I enjoyed the headline, as served up by a search of Mr. Obama’s suit transgression:

    The world has feelings about Obama’s tan suit
    New York Post

    Feelings! Wo-o-o feelings, Wo-o-o feelings….

  81. 81.

    GregB

    August 30, 2014 at 11:35 am

    I thought it was bad form to pal around with terrorists in beige after Labor Day?

  82. 82.

    Roger Moore

    August 30, 2014 at 11:37 am

    A suspicious person might even suspect that the Republicans were desperate to deflect attention away from the substance of Obama’s speech. Couldn’t be true, though; Republicans are all about policy.

  83. 83.

    Ruckus

    August 30, 2014 at 11:48 am

    @Hal:

    But Peter King must have some serious brain damage if he’s really legitimately upset over the suit.

    He does. But it became readily apparent long before he pissed himself about a tan suit.

  84. 84.

    JoyceH

    August 30, 2014 at 11:49 am

    I too thought the suit looked fine and a nice change. Man, no wonder politicians dress so boring! Once they step outside the confines of blue suit black suit grey suit, it becomes a Topic. I remember some time ago when a president (can’t even remember who) wore a green suit, and the talkers just went on and ON about it. And it was a dignified muted green, for pete’s sake, not lime!

  85. 85.

    Amir Khalid

    August 30, 2014 at 11:56 am

    @RaflW:
    I remember Mikhael Gorbachev’s suits. They looked cheap as hell. Nobody had much to say about them, though. You didn’t dare point out that the leader of the eastern bloc looked like he bought his clothes second-hand.

    Now, about Obama’s clothes. The tan suit doesn’t look bad on him — he’s one of those men who would have to work hard to look bad in anything — but it is an unconventional style choice. That’s enough to start the fashionistas arguing over whether it works, because they’re fashionistas and love a good session of Fashion Argument Clinic. My two cents worth: he looks perfectly presentable in it, and it’s not worth being fussy about clothes beyond that point.

    Then there’s them whose point of contention is Obama himself. You know who they are. They’ll pick on him over anything, including the colour of his suit, because their total war on his presidency isn’t working as well as they’d like, and because (alas) the colour of his skin is off limits.

  86. 86.

    Suzanne

    August 30, 2014 at 11:59 am

    @Baud: I am absolutely dreading the sartorial bullshit that will come when/if we have a female prez. Already with Hillary, we had pantsuit and cankles hysteria. Like, WTF.

    What will happen is that the sniping will be so constant and ridiculous and distracting that she, whoever she is, will hire a stylist, then she be accused of being self-absorbed and shallow and wasteful.

  87. 87.

    StringOnAStick

    August 30, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    I agree with Amir Khalid, but I have a weakness for regionally/ethnically appropriate dress from other countries. I find it all to be beautiful and usually with glorious colors for both sexes. When I was a child and they were current in the west, I though Nehru jackets were cool; born a DFH obviously, though unfortunately to a couple of John Birchers.

    I thought it was a sign of intelligence and/or wealth to not wear dark suits at the height of summer. Who wants to wear wool when it is 90 degrees and humid? I suspect the wailing over the President’s suit is more toddler-level frustration that they just can’t find anything to stick to him, but this is stooooooooopid, even for an utter moron like Rep King.

  88. 88.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    August 30, 2014 at 12:09 pm

    @Poopyman: Ditto on the low freon. Adding a couple of pounds fixed our icing problem a few years ago and it hasn’t happened since.

    When he was here, I asked the A/C guy about the ~ 3″ section of missing foam insulation on the freon line leaving the compressor box before it enters the house and whether it makes sense to replace it. He said don’t worry about it. The line inside the cabinet isn’t insulated either. (The foam insulation is mainly to prevent condensation drips – outdoors it doesn’t much matter – indoors, it does, of course.)

    I too hope it’s a simple fix, raven. Good luck!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  89. 89.

    trollhattan

    August 30, 2014 at 12:12 pm

    When is a Lambo like an Uzi? When you hand it over to a kid.

    A New York teen taking a test drive of a family friend’s Lamborghini has died after crashing the high-powered sports car into a guardrail.

    Police say 18-year-old Samuel Shepard was taking the car for a spin on a county road in Mount Sinai on Long Island early Friday when he lost control. The car’s owner, Michael Power, was a passenger in the car and was treated for nonlife-threatening injuries.

    Unlike the Arizona death, there will definitely be a bigass lawsuit arising from this occurrence.

  90. 90.

    Dolly Llama

    August 30, 2014 at 12:38 pm

    College football open thread? Go Dawgs!

  91. 91.

    RaflW

    August 30, 2014 at 12:45 pm

    @StringOnAStick:

    I thought it was a sign of intelligence and/or wealth to not wear dark suits at the height of summer. Who wants to wear wool when it is 90 degrees and humid?

    Can I just say: Seersucker! I wish Obama had gone full-preppie summer weirdness with that old school sartorial gem.

    He could really f*ck with them by wearing a seersucker jacket and white trousers after Labor Day. Impeachable offense!

    (Click link to see an actual black dude in said outfit. Sharp!)

  92. 92.

    trollhattan

    August 30, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    @RaflW: Mandatory straw boater.

  93. 93.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 30, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    @Suzanne: The Heathers of the Village will go positively apeshit.

  94. 94.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    I remember Mikhael Gorbachev’s suits. They looked cheap as hell. Nobody had much to say about them, though. You didn’t dare point out that the leader of the eastern bloc looked like he bought his clothes second-hand.

    Some of Gorbachev’s suits were tailored by a Sicilian, who had also dressed Richard Nixon and Jack Kennedy, among others. The same family had made suits for Kruschev and other Soviet poobahs.

    It’s true that Gorbachev sometimes turned up at state dinners, etc., in ordinary business attire as opposed to white tie — but he did this quite deliberately.

  95. 95.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    @GregB:

    I thought it was bad form to pal around with terrorists in beige after Labor Day?

    That’s funny, but inappropriate. This is a serious matter. If you take the letters in “Obama’s tan suit” and re-arrange them correctly, you see that it’s all about satanism.

  96. 96.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 30, 2014 at 1:08 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    because (alas) the colour of his skin is off limits.

    They are thinking, CONSTANTLY, about that, though. You can tell that Rush Limbaugh is exerting every bit of willpower to suppress his intense desire to call Obama a ni*CLANG* on the air because he knows that if he does, the gravy train derails.

  97. 97.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 1:36 pm

    I was asked yesterday by Amir what my response was to Russians fighting in Ukraine and had a nice long answer which died in moderation.

    So my shortened answer is that, like the smoking column of Russian APCs a week ago, the slow motion invasion from a few days before that, and Kiev’s imminent victory from two weeks ago, my embrace of these things as facts has been hampered by lack of photographs. This stealth, invisible army of Russia’s is remarkable.

    I suspect that there are Russians fighting in Ukraine, just like there are NATO forces in Ukraine, fighting against them. Three or four weeks ago there were reports of a Polish unit destroyed in the Southern Cauldron. We had reports early on of 200 Academi troops in Ukraine, presumably to train the fascist militias. There is a report that the entire top floor of a hotel in Kiev has been taken over by the CIA operation set up there. There were reports of a plane of NATO supplies from Canada landing in Ukraine a week or so back.

    Now, in these times of war, it’s hard to verify, so we can cut slack for lack of reportage for both sides.

    That’s how war is fought these days, and if Russia has learned stealth from the US it’s learned from the best.

    The US is on the verge of war (or maybe already at war) with ISIS. We know that the US trained and supplied anti-Assad forces for years in Jordan and Syria, and that the anti-Assad forces morphed into ISIS. What kind of intellectual tap-dancing must one do to separate the American hand from ISIS? This is a repeat of the Mujahadeen into al Qaeda transformation. I think it might have been Jonathan Kwitny who wrote ENDLESS ENEMIES (although it could have been someone else), about the strategy of creating enemies as foils for US foreign policy. That book must be close to thirty years old now.

    The US has had plans for a pipeline from Central Asia through Afghanistan to the Indian Ocean. This is actually a plan from aligned energy companies who have had extraordinary input into our foreign policy. You can’t say you attacked Afghanistan because they wouldn’t go along with our pipeline plan, but you can attack them because Osama bin Laden is hiding in a cave in Tora Bora. Fifteen years later the story doesn’t seem to fit. TAPI Pipeline. Look it up.

    We are now getting bits and pieces of evidence that the US was financing the Chechen uprising back in the 90s. Why would the US finance those crazy radical, violent Islamists who were blowing up grammar schools and subways?

    What does Afghanistan have to do with Chechnya and Ukraine? Think hard.

    Meanwhile, BJ readers have problems with understanding the anti-fascist sentiment among easterners, or in Carpathia, for that matter. They have been assured that there are no fascists in Ukraine. That’s why I suggested reading the Russ Bellant interview in THE NATION.

    When I said that the MH17 downing fit the profile of a typical false flag, I thought it would help BJ readers to understand how propaganda works, and as such how we are controlled by propaganda. I suggested Christopher Simpson’s THE SCIENCE OF COERCION, which is available in PDF on the net. It’s not very long, but it shows how widespread the propaganda apparatus was at the end of WWII. BJers have mostly presumed that my references are verboten and have avoided them.

    Amir, last week you said that you would wait for the release of the black box information on MH17 to find out what the conversations had been between the air traffic controllers and the downed airliner. As we approach six weeks with the air tower recordings still hidden by the Ukrainian government, with the black box information still secret, with Ukrainian civil and military radar of the day in question still unrevealed, with the US intel satellite photos still not released, the only major power still talking about the downing of MH17 is Russia, who released their radar several days after the incident, showing Ukrainian fighter jets in the vicinity of the airliner immediately before it went down.

    How long are you willing to wait, Amir?

  98. 98.

    brantl

    August 30, 2014 at 1:36 pm

    Peter King, Super-Douche (spoken in that same tone from the Warner Brother’s cartoon with Wile E. Coyote, Super-Genius).

  99. 99.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    @Bob In Portland: Amir, after I wrote the above I came across this article. Of course, it’s from Russia Today so you aren’t allowed to read it, unfortunately, but it does mention some of the things I talked about above.

  100. 100.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    I think it might have been Jonathan Kwitny who wrote ENDLESS ENEMIES (although it could have been someone else), about the strategy of creating enemies as foils for US foreign policy. That book must be close to thirty years old now.

    Jonathan was an excellent reporter and a good friend. Yes, the book you mention was his, published in 1984.

  101. 101.

    Mike in dc

    August 30, 2014 at 2:12 pm

    Well, sure, aside from imagery from satellites which have been watching the area for the past 50+ years, there is no clear evidence of a Russian military incursion. Apparently, every other nation state in Europe is in on the ruse and playing along.

  102. 102.

    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)

    August 30, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    @Bob In Portland: Your giant screed did come out of moderation. BTW if you want to avoid moderation in the future, don’t put in more than three links – reply links count as links. There was no attempt to silence you as much as you may have been hoping that was the case.

  103. 103.

    Mnemosyne

    August 30, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    I remember Mikhael Gorbachev’s suits. They looked cheap as hell. Nobody had much to say about them, though. You didn’t dare point out that the leader of the eastern bloc looked like he bought his clothes second-hand.

    That’s because Soviet leaders made a specific point of wearing cheap, ill-fitting suits — it was a badge of honor for them. Once Gorbachev was no longer the leader of the USSR and was making speeches in western Europe, he wore tailored suits like all of the western European bigwigs.

    (Not my original insight — I stole it from Miss Manners, who was pointing out that people should wear what’s appropriate for the occasion, and the “occasion” of being the head of the Soviet Union demanded a cheap, ill-fitting suit. When the occasions changed, Gorbachev changed his suits.)

  104. 104.

    Seanly

    August 30, 2014 at 2:41 pm

    @raven:

    Are you sure the condensate line is clear? If that is clear & your line is still freezing up then you could have a bad condenser or just the coolant could be low.

  105. 105.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 30, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    I suspect that there are Russians fighting in Ukraine, just like there are NATO forces in Ukraine, fighting against them.

    Gospodin Romanov is auditioning, it seems, for a sinecure in the Village with this “both sides do it” horseshit.

    Isn’t there someone in Multnomah County with a 16 ton weight gathering dust in the garage (probably someone living in the NE quarter of the Rose City) that can accidentally be dropped on this guy?

  106. 106.

    Mike in dc

    August 30, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    It would be great coup for Putin if he could produce satellite imagery of NATO units crossing into Ukraine, comm intercepts discussing such movements, and captured Polish soldiers. He is showing admirable forbearance by declining to do so.

  107. 107.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 3:01 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    That’s because Soviet leaders made a specific point of wearing cheap, ill-fitting suits

    Not always. For example, when Gorbachev met with Reagan in DC in 1987, he wore some of his aforementioned Italian suits. (You can see them in photographs taken during the summit.)

  108. 108.

    Dog On Porch

    August 30, 2014 at 3:07 pm

    “I mean, you have the world watching..”.

    That’s the second or third republican I’ve recently heard who has invoked the phrase first made famous at the ’68 democratic convention. Pretty lame stuff by a party that yearns for the days when Dick Cheney ran America’s foreign policy. Then again, what else have they got to say besides “bomb, bomb, bomb”?

  109. 109.

    Ruckus

    August 30, 2014 at 3:17 pm

    Just looked at the pic of PK. This douche is talking about someone else’s wardrobe choices?

    What bad diner upholstery shop did he get that imitation leatherette seat cover that he’s wearing from?

  110. 110.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 3:24 pm

    This and this, too.

  111. 111.

    Mnemosyne

    August 30, 2014 at 3:36 pm

    @Cervantes:

    Feel free to write to Judith Martin and tell her she was wrong.

  112. 112.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 3:39 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: And in fact we do do it, and do it more than Russia has. But we’re promoting stone fascists fighting for the white race in Ukraine while doing it. That’s okay because you don’t believe in fascists, right?

    So are you saying that the US doesn’t do it, doesn’t do it in Ukraine, maybe did it but isn’t doing it now? Did it in Syria, but that’s different because? Did it in Chechnya but there is only circumstantial evidence? Did it in Afghanistan but 9/11?

    The US has active military in 130 to 150 countries. A betting man would say we have troops in Ukraine, we just aren’t well-informed about what they are doing there. Would you say that is true or false?

    Remember when the US supported apartheid for most of the last half of the 20th Century? Remember the death squads in El Salvador? A simpler time, eh Villago? We do it but they shouldn’t.

    Should only one side do it? Should only our side do it?

    Then comes the question: For what?

    Did we leave Afghanistan better than how we found it? Er, will we? How about Libya? Syria and Iraq? Oh yeah, we haven’t left them yet. What is the grand strategy here, or does someone in Foggy Bottom just think that bombing is like Hellmann’s Mayonaise, it just makes things better?

    How long are you willing to wait for information from MH17?

    So sorry about “both sides do it” horseshit. But we do it a lot more, if quantity has anything to do with it.

  113. 113.

    Dog On Porch

    August 30, 2014 at 3:42 pm

    @Dog On Porch: I just mustered the energy to read King’s comment. I had assumed the “whole world watching” remark pertained to U.S. foreign policy. But the birdbrain was talking about a goddamn suit.

    I know that was understood by everyone else, but I still find it hard to believe. In fact, it just might be the single most stupid remark by a politician that I’ve ever heard. Can it be that Louis Gohmert isn’t the biggest simpleton in congress? Way to go, New York.

  114. 114.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Why on earth would I do that?

  115. 115.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Isn’t there someone in Multnomah County with a 16 ton weight gathering dust in the garage (probably someone living in the NE quarter of the Rose City) that can accidentally be dropped on this guy?

    Nothing like a death threat to win an argument, Villago. Care to post my street address? You know, very similar to the Azov Battalion. I can see you getting right in step with the new tomorrow. Because silencing dissent is the new free speech. Well done. Cheers.

  116. 116.

    Mnemosyne

    August 30, 2014 at 3:49 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    But we’re promoting stone fascists fighting for the white race in Ukraine while doing it.

    So is Russia:

    The director of the European Geopolitical Analysis Centre and the mission coordinator, Mateusz Piskorski, together with Hungarian MEP Béla Kovács, Belgian political activist Luc Michel, and Spanish MEP Enrique Ravello all have strong links with the far right. If Piskorski’s penchant in the 1990s for a form of “National Socialism” that praised Hitler and fascism could be charitably called a youthful aberration, this is categorically not the case with the others. Ravello can be seen addressing a London far-right forum in anti-immigration, xenophobic mode here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3XjgJhJ-XA Michel is also from the far-right and a former member of the neo-Nazi movement Fédération d’action nationaliste et européenne. He is now apparently a supporter of National Bolshevism.

    But, as with every event in this situation, it’s A-OK for Russia to support and promote neo-Nazis, but it’s horrible and evil for any neo-Nazis to be associated with the government in Ukraine. I guess the neo-Nazis that Russia approves of are nicer neo-Nazis than ones (you claim) Ukraine approves of.

  117. 117.

    Mnemosyne

    August 30, 2014 at 3:51 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    Also, Bob, Moscow seems to have misled you about Pavel Gubarev‘s background. Or is he a good neo-Nazi, unlike those bad neo-Nazis in Ukraine?

  118. 118.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 3:54 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    A betting man would say we have troops in Ukraine, we just aren’t well-informed about what they are doing there.

    Not sure what a betting man would say but US military “advisers” have been in Ukraine for a while, as reported some months ago in, for example, the Marine Corps Times. What are they doing there? Assessing Ukraine’s “mid- and long-term needs for defense reform,” we are told.

  119. 119.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 3:58 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    Nothing like a death threat to win an argument, Villago.

    Pretty silly even in jest.

  120. 120.

    Mike in dc

    August 30, 2014 at 4:01 pm

    @Cervantes: Did said American military personnel arrive via armored columns, accompanied by several thousand other personnel?
    My offhand guess is “no”.

  121. 121.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 4:02 pm

    @Mike in dc: And … ?

  122. 122.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 4:06 pm

    @Cervantes: What were they doing in Jordan for the last three years?

    Well, after being scolded for suggesting that “both sides do it” I am barraged with “both sides do it”. So at least you folks admit that the US has been doing it with fascists, Nazis and war criminals since WWII, and have absorbed foreign fascists into the US political system in an attempt to push our national dialogue to the right, correct? Or haven’t you read the Russ Bellant interview yet?

    Was Kwitny wrong about the US creating “endless enemies” or is that irrelevant now that it’s Obama in the WH and not Ronnie Reagan?

    Finally, are you saying that it’s okay to support fascists because Russia has fascist supporters in Europe?

    Need to hop into the shower and catch up with the Beavers. Later.

  123. 123.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    August 30, 2014 at 4:09 pm

    @Cervantes: Humor is silly sometimes, and in the eye of the beholder. Surely you recognize that.

    Who was it that said…?

    I do not deny that what happened to us is a thing worth laughing at. But it is not worth telling, for not everyone is sufficiently intelligent to be able to see things from the right point of view.

    ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  124. 124.

    Mnemosyne

    August 30, 2014 at 4:12 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    Well, after being scolded for suggesting that “both sides do it” I am barraged with “both sides do it”.

    Er, no, you’ve been scolded — for months now — for claiming that if the US has done it in the past, it’s A-OK for Russia to do it in the present. Your argument has about as much legitimacy as a kindergartener claiming that because Jimmy punched Billy in the arm, it was A-OK for him to punch Adam in the arm.

    Was Kwitny wrong about the US creating “endless enemies” or is that irrelevant now that it’s Obama in the WH and not Ronnie Reagan?

    What year is it, Bob? Is it currently 1984? What number of years have passed since Kwitny wrote his book, and how many years has it been since Kwitny died? Yes, that’s right — if you wanted to ask Kwitny his opinion of current events, you would need an Ouiji board to do it.

  125. 125.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 4:14 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet If what I wrote there did not make sense to you, consider looking at it again.

    @Bob In Portland: No idea what you are responding to, sorry. I merely cited a news report indicating that US military “advisers” have been in Ukraine, probably for two months now.

  126. 126.

    Mike in dc

    August 30, 2014 at 4:15 pm

    @Cervantes:
    We sent a few officers there to give tips on restructuring, weapons procurement, etc. Maybe they suggested a few maneuvers to use or shared intel on troop movements. How does that compare to an actual active military incursion by the Russian army?
    There are no NATO ground units in combat in Eastern Ukraine, overt or otherwise. There are no NATO airstrikes on targets in Eastern Ukraine, either. Period. But there are active duty Russian armed forces rolling through Eastern Ukraine. Period. With regard to politics–complicated. With regard to who is fighting who, not complicated in the slightest.

  127. 127.

    Mnemosyne

    August 30, 2014 at 4:16 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    Also, you do know that Jordan is an official US non-NATO ally, right? By the same token, you could ominously state that Jordan has military personnel right here in the U S of A!

  128. 128.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 4:18 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Well, no one’s suggested asking Kwitny “his opinion of current events.” And anyone can read his book, evaluate it, and state an opinion. None of this is controversial, I hope.

  129. 129.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 4:20 pm

    @Mike in dc: I said otherwise? I don’t think so.

    Anyhow, thanks for your reply.

  130. 130.

    Mnemosyne

    August 30, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    @Cervantes:

    I think it’s worth asking if a book published 30 years ago about the current events of the day continues to be relevant to current events today. Bob obviously thinks so, but we also know that he thinks that events of 70 years ago in Ukraine are more relevant than events of 10 years ago, so I’m not sure we can trust his sense of chronology.

  131. 131.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    August 30, 2014 at 4:22 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Not only that, but Germany has a military base at Dulles Airport!!!111. To not spoil the history lesson, I’ll let Cervantes and BiP draw the obvious parallels to Russia’s invasion of Eastern Ukraine.

    HTH!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  132. 132.

    Mike in dc

    August 30, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    @Cervantes: ah, my bad. Working weekends puts me in a contentious mood.

  133. 133.

    Mnemosyne

    August 30, 2014 at 4:24 pm

    Since I do have to go run some errands now, I’ll leave a link to Fred Clark’s blog that strongly reminded me of our buddy Bob:

    Chemtrails & Creationists: ‘Biblical inerrancy’ as conspiracy theory

    The relevant paragraph:

    Conspiracy theories don’t arise from facts. They arise, rather, from an epistemological choice that prescribes which facts will be accepted and how those facts will be interpreted.

    What this choice means, basically, is that the legitimacy or illegitimacy of any given fact-claim is determined primarily by the source of that claim. For chemtrail enthusiasts, sources such as scientists, the FAA and the Air Force are predetermined to be illegitimate. This isn’t simply skepticism — a journalistic prudence that demands even the claims of purported authorities and experts must be “checked out.” It’s a categorical dismissal — anything these sources say is, by definition, untrue. Anything those sources say will be perceived, instead, as a kind of confirmation of their opposite.

  134. 134.

    pseudonymous in nc

    August 30, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    That picture seems to be quite old, maybe going on 30 years. Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams’ hair has gone entirely grey by now.

    Peter King got out of the terrorist-sympathiser business fairly quickly, just less than thirteen years ago. He didn’t get out of the professional bullshitting business.

  135. 135.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    I think it’s worth asking if a book published 30 years ago about the current events of the day continues to be relevant to current events today.

    Of course one can ask, and one can seek an answer, preferably by reading the book. On the other hand it might be easier to dismiss it unread because it’s 30 years old.

    Bob obviously thinks so, but we also know that he thinks that events of 70 years ago in Ukraine are more relevant than events of 10 years ago, so I’m not sure we can trust his sense of chronology.

    [Not a conversation I’ve been following, hence no comment.]

  136. 136.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    @Mike in dc: Not to worry. At least you have your excuse. Others? I’m not sure.

  137. 137.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 4:37 pm

    @Mnemosyne: So I can call you out every time you quote a dead author because something may have changed? That’s idiot thinking, Mnem.

    You never actually answer questions, you know. And I bet if you tried you’d know why you don’t.

    And speaking of questions that BJers don’t like to answer, the only reason for the US in Ukraine is to stop the mighty Russians? Nothing to do with energy policy, right?

  138. 138.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    August 30, 2014 at 4:47 pm

    @Cervantes: Everyone has excuses, Miguel. The important question, as always, is how relevant the excuse is to the situation at hand. ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  139. 139.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 4:48 pm

    @Cervantes: If Mnem has read the book, or even understands the concept, then maybe she and I can have a conversation about it. I still refer from time to time to George Seldes’ books.

    The absolute basic argument is that the US creates enemies for foreign policy purposes. Need to invade Iraq? Invent a reason. Need to build a pipeline across Afghanistan but the Taliban want a bigger cut? Lookee, the guy who brought us 9/11 (whose family is tight with the Bush family and who has worked with the US against the Russians long ago) is now an enemy and happens to live in a cave in Afghanistan. Saddam used to be an ally. And poor Assad. During extraordinary rendition he dutifully tortured people for us. Heck, his dad worked with the US intelligence services to move heroin through the Bekaa Valley back in the 90s, so how can they be that bad? But they’re now enemies. Maybe it had to do with Assad dealing with Iran and Iraq for a Shia pipeline. Or maybe it was just his time to become an enemy. Our post-WWII history is littered with allies who became enemies. But I guess, for Mnem, since Kwitny is dead the book has no relevance. Maybe someone needs to write a book, LOTS OF FALL GUYS ON THE WAY TO ENERGY DOMINATION.

  140. 140.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 4:51 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Now I really have no idea what you’re talking about. So be it!

  141. 141.

    Mike in dc

    August 30, 2014 at 4:52 pm

    If i support protecting puppies because i sell puppy protection related products, it means i am acting oyt of self interest. However, it does not follow that supporting protecting puppies is morally indistinguishable from supporting the kicking of puppies.

  142. 142.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 4:53 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Which is why you do yourself a disservice by not reading THE SCIENCE OF COERCION.

    Also, why do you reject the Russ Bellant interview? What part of that information do you reject in your conspiracy theory regarding Russia wanting to retake all of eastern Europe?

  143. 143.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 4:53 pm

    @Bob In Portland: Catchy title.

  144. 144.

    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)

    August 30, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    What part of that information do you reject in your conspiracy theory regarding Russia wanting to retake all of eastern Europe?

    Quoi?

  145. 145.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 30, 2014 at 4:55 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    /eye roll

    It is telling that fuckhead here doesn’t get a Monty Python reference, because he’s your stereotypical humorless git.

    No doubt the NATO troops currently fighting brave Russian liberators in Ukraine right now are all wearing SS uniforms, just to make sure that everyone knows they’re fascists.

    It’s not necessary to attempt to even try to “win an argument” with someone who is as blockheaded as BiP. We’ve been at the mock incessantly and laugh at stage for some time now.

  146. 146.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 4:57 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    I still refer from time to time to George Seldes’ books.

    Personally, I think even 400-year-old books can still be relevant.

  147. 147.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 4:58 pm

    @Mike in dc: How do you stand on eliminating “Semite-led subhuman” ethnic Russians in eastern Ukraine?

  148. 148.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 5:01 pm

    @Cervantes: I had to get rid of my Complete Works of Shakespeare because the print was too small for me to read. Luckily, his stuff is post-copyright and can be found all over the net. He is dead, though, so that’s a mark against him.

  149. 149.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 5:04 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Isn’t one of those Monty Python guys dead now? And you’re still allowed to make vague homicidal references here at BJ about comedy routines from 30 years ago?

  150. 150.

    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)

    August 30, 2014 at 5:05 pm

    @Bob In Portland: He was also rather unreliable as a historian of the War of the Roses.

    @Bob In Portland: Is it wrong to suggest that a 30 year old book on US foreign policy might be out of date?

  151. 151.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 30, 2014 at 5:06 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): As long as the propaganda fits in with BiPs world view, it’s not actually propaganda.

    Didn’t imagine that BiP would be such a slavish Tudor partisan, but you can never tell.

  152. 152.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 30, 2014 at 5:08 pm

    @Bob In Portland: Graham Chapman joined the choir invisible nearly 25 years ago.

    If he had not, and he were on this thread, he’d shut you down for being hopelessly silly.

  153. 153.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    August 30, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    @Cervantes: The sub-thread was:

    1) BiP approvingly cited a book and argues that we should read it.
    2) You said he was and excellent reporter and a good friend. You also said that anyone can read a book and ask questions about it.
    3) I mentioned relevance.

    My mention of relevance was to, I thought, remind BiP (and other readers) of my earlier comment about his posting style. I don’t think anyone posting here sees the relevance of him bringing up the CIA and fascists as an explanation or justification for Russia’s invasion of Eastern Ukraine. He’s repeated the same “arguments” and insinuations many times.

    And to prod you to express an opinion on whether you thought Kwitny’s book somehow supported BiP’s opinion or not.

    Clearer?

    Perhaps I’m not seeing the lessons that you’re hoping to convey with your Zen-like posts. Or perhaps it would help the conversation along if you gave your opinion more often rather telling us that you’re disappointed in us, or that people can read books, or … :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  154. 154.

    Mike in dc

    August 30, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    @Bob In Portland: i am objectively pro puppy. Vladimir putin is not sending tanks into ukraine to protect puppies. He could care less about the ethnic Russians there. This is about punishing Kiev for breaking away from control. At least the puppy protection service actually cares about the work it gets paid for.

  155. 155.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 5:22 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: Yes, and Robin Williams would call you a blind, stupid suckup to fascism. You know, if he were not dead.

  156. 156.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 5:29 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):

    Is it wrong to suggest that a 30 year old book on US foreign policy might be out of date?

    Wrong? Maybe it’s lazy, if one has not read it. Or maybe it’s unwise, if one values history.

    I’d say it’s a good book written by an excellent reporter — but as I also said above, Jonathan was a good friend so you may want to discount my opinion. Whereas a contemporary reviewer, Christopher Lehmann-Haupt (NYT), described the book as “a slightly overdocumented but fair-minded survey of American foreign policy,” adding, “It’s an old and familiar form of idealism that Mr. Kwitny is exercising. But by dint of hard reporting, he finally succeeds in reinvigorating it.”

  157. 157.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 5:34 pm

    @Mike in dc: I’m sorry, did you say you have pictures of Russian tanks in Ukraine as opposed to parking lots in Russia?

    Are you absolutely sure that the reports of NATO supplying weapons to Ukraine aren’t true? How sure are you that those reports of Academi soldiers in Ukraine were untrue? Do you think all the aid that was received from the west is non-lethal?

    If this is not about puppies, but is about supplying aid to each side, how do you come to a moral decision on why the US, with its track record, is more moral than Russia?

    Maybe this is the BJers position: “We have been told that Russians are bad people all our lives (but we’re not influenced by government propaganda, no siree), and we’ve been told that America fights for democracy and freedom so if we just don’t look at evidence to the contrary we can comfortably support the US in Ukraine because Putin is a bad/mad man, just like Khadafy and Saddam and Assad and Hitler.”

    We’ve always been at war with Eastasia. (Whoops, Orwell is dead too.)

  158. 158.

    Villago Delenda Est

    August 30, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    @Bob In Portland: No, I think Robin Williams would join me in pointing and laughing at you.

  159. 159.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 5:35 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    Or perhaps it would help the conversation along if you gave your opinion more often rather telling us that you’re disappointed in us, or that people can read books, or … :-)

    To be precise, I did not say I was disappointed in any plural “you.” The disappointment I expressed stemmed from one of your comments in particular. The comment was not objectively the worst; it was merely cheaper than I had come to expect from you, that’s all. Feel free to ignore my expectations, as I think you intimated you were going to do!

    As for my opinions, they are not exactly thin on the ground.

  160. 160.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    (Whoops, Orwell is dead too.)

    Don’t anyone tell you-know-who.

  161. 161.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 5:45 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est: No, both he and Shakespeare would laugh at you.

  162. 162.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 5:59 pm

    For Delenda:

    It is actually quite amusing to observe the reaction of Ukrainian and European leaders these days. After feeding us fairy tales about how the Ukrainians were “winning” the civil war, they suddenly made a 180 degree turn and are now in the full panic mode. I might shock many of you, but I sincerely believe that, at least in part, the following is happening.

    The western elites have declared that the Ukie junta are the “good guys” and that the Novorussians are rebels, insurgents, separatists, Russian agents, Spetsnaz forces, paratroopers, Russian occupants or even FSB/GRU officers. In other words, lying bastards. Having accepted this premise, it makes perfectly good sense to get your information from the “good guys” and not from the “lying bastards”. Well, the “good guys” were actively feeding all sorts of utter nonsense to their western counterparts who, by and large, bought it out of sheer incompetence, ignorance, laziness and arrogant stupidity. Here is a fantastic and absolutely hilarious example of what this produces. Check out this BBC map and notice its source: the “Ukrainian National Security & Defence Council”.

    After having completely denied that an successful Novorussian operation was taking place, the Ukies had to finally admit that the Novorussian Armed Forces (NAF) had reached Novozavodsk. But remember that the successful operation which got them there in the first place never happened. So they end up publishing a map with an almost completely surrounded Novorussia and a tiny isolated speck around Novozavodsk.

    This begs the question: how did the NAF even get there? By air? Unlikely. By flying carpet or teleporters? Maybe not. And then the answer is obvious: through Russia of course! That is the politically correct interpretation. Nevermind that in reality the entire border between Novorussia and Russia is firmly in Novorussian hands, nevermind that the entire strech of land north of Novozavodsk is also in Novorussian hands, and nevermind that even Mariupol is already fully surrounded (since this morning), the Ukies and the BBC will show “hallucinogenic maps” like the one shown here.

    There is a good US expression: when your head is in the sand, your ass is in the air. This is exactly what happened now to Ukie and EU elites. They got suddenly painfully bitten in their exposed butt by the news of a comprehensive collapse of the Junta repression forces (JRF) and they are now in a panic mode, just like a sleepwalker who is suddenly shaken awake.

  163. 163.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 6:11 pm

    @Mike in dc: And you know this because Langley always sends you a memo when troops are stationed somewhere? Please, you think you know it because you don’t know otherwise.

  164. 164.

    Mike in dc

    August 30, 2014 at 6:14 pm

    @Bob In Portland: @Bob In Portland: i am entirely sure that NATO members are not exchanging fire with separatists or their Russian allies in Eastern Ukraine. I made no assertions regarding the transfer of arms to Ukraine.

    Multiple European countries have access to their own satellite reconnaissance. That particular area is under intense surveillance. There is also video of T72 tanks kitted out in modern Russian gear(not available in the Ukraine) rolling through the country. I don’t find the dismissal of the evidence presented by the Commander of NATO particularly credible. Russian forces are directly intervening militarily there. NATO and its membership are not. Period. Concede the point already.

  165. 165.

    Mike in dc

    August 30, 2014 at 6:17 pm

    @Bob In Portland: Well, i suppose i would have to take a back seat to you in the “assumes facts not in evidence” category.

  166. 166.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    August 30, 2014 at 6:17 pm

    @Bob In Portland: I guess you’ve missed the news the last few days. That, or you haven’t had your coffee.

    Photos.

    HTH!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  167. 167.

    Pogonip

    August 30, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    Hodor!

    Obama could do America’s animals a lot of good if he’d put the tan suit on to announce he’s in favor of cruelty to animals.

  168. 168.

    Anne Laurie

    August 30, 2014 at 6:36 pm

    @Cervantes:

    Personally, I think even 400-year-old books can still be relevant.

    Absolutely! :)

    But there’s relevant for content versus relevant for use as the rhetorical equivalent of a half-brick tossed at an opponent, and in such “battles”, books labelled non-fiction have the edge.

  169. 169.

    Bob In Portland

    August 30, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: The pictures aren’t clear enough to see the aluminum tubes.

    (Actually, in snarky way I’m asking you how you know that those pictures are what NATO says they are.) Did Fogh Rasmussen give his imprimatur on these photos? (This is more snark, indicating that Rasmussen, who in 2002 assured the world that Saddam had WMDs, is still involved in assuring the world about NATOish things.) Has Gordon from the NY Times taken any photos? (Yet more snark here. I am referring to the NY Times reporter who cowrote those articles with Judith Miller on the way to Shock and Awe.)

    Here’s a hypothetical: If you found out tomorrow that the regime in Kiev is indeed fascist, would your opinion change about anything Ukrainian? If you found out that the US has been supporting fascist movements in Ukraine for seventy years, to include the current regime, would your opinion change about anything Ukrainian? Is there anything that would change your mind and/or rooting interests in Ukraine?

    You probably won’t even answer that one.

  170. 170.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 6:53 pm

    @Anne Laurie:

    But there’s relevant for content versus relevant for use as the rhetorical equivalent of a half-brick tossed at an opponent, and in such “battles”, books labelled non-fiction have the edge.

    Maybe, but I do not get the reference (if any).

    Meanwhile, I’d note that some books shelved as “non-fiction” should really be put elsewhere. Regnery, for example, offers many such titles and nearly all of them are used in “battles.”

  171. 171.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 6:59 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    Actually, in snarky way I’m asking you how you know that those pictures are what NATO says they are.

    Reasonable question.

    What independent analysis, pro or con, have you seen?

    (One Russian minister suggested the images are stills from a video game — but is there independent analysis to this effect?)

  172. 172.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    August 30, 2014 at 7:00 pm

    @Bob In Portland: NATO got the pictures from Digital Globe. I’m sure they’ll be fascinated to hear your explanation that the images don’t show what NATO says they show! Get on the horn to them, Stat!!!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  173. 173.

    Tommy

    August 30, 2014 at 7:02 pm

    @Mike in dc: I have not served myself. But spent most of my life around a military base. I want to hug Obama but we are going to war. Mark my words here.

  174. 174.

    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)

    August 30, 2014 at 7:18 pm

    @Tommy:

    but we are going to war. Mark my words here.

    With whom?

  175. 175.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    August 30, 2014 at 7:25 pm

    @Cervantes: Um, I think she’s referring to your most famous work. Could be wrong though…

    ;-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  176. 176.

    Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)

    August 30, 2014 at 7:34 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Dear god. They’re just lining lining up the guns like they are in a motor pool. No attempt to use the terrain. Oh well, they never did show much artistry with their artillery. Brutal effectiveness, on the other hand….

  177. 177.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    August 30, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    @Bob In Portland:

    Here’s a hypothetical: If you found out tomorrow that the regime in Kiev is indeed fascist, would your opinion change about anything Ukrainian?

    Why not talk about what’s happening now and soon to happen instead?

    For instance, Poroshenko called for new parliamentary elections on October 28. Would any conceivable result change your often-expressed belief that Ukraine is ruled by fascists? Would any conceivable result end your nearly continual apologies here for Putin’s military actions in Eastern Ukraine?

    Thanks!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  178. 178.

    Cervantes

    August 30, 2014 at 8:16 pm

    @I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:

    Um, I think she’s referring to your most famous work.

    Yes, I made a little joke and her first line responded to it — but then she lost me. No fault of hers.

  179. 179.

    Anne Laurie

    August 30, 2014 at 9:49 pm

    @Cervantes:

    Meanwhile, I’d note that some books shelved as “non-fiction” should really be put elsewhere. Regnery, for example, offers many such titles and nearly all of them are used in “battles.”

    Yeah, I was trying to agree with you, clumsily.

    Facts are essential to honest political arguments, but there are commentors on both sides of this issue who marshall their collections of “facts” by volume, not by relevance.

    BiP is a pest on this particular topic, and he inspires Mnem, for instance, to resort to her least attractive debating-club routines. Sometimes I’d like to set a character limit on comments, but (a) it’s not my blog, and (b) therein lies the madness that is Twitter at its worst!

  180. 180.

    Anne Laurie

    August 30, 2014 at 9:56 pm

    @Bob In Portland: I’m not Scott, but here’s my response:

    Here’s a hypothetical: If you found out tomorrow that the regime in Kiev is indeed fascist, would your opinion change about anything Ukrainian?

    Nope.

    If you found out that the US has been supporting fascist movements in Ukraine for seventy years, to include the current regime, would your opinion change about anything Ukrainian?

    I know perfectly well that “the US”, or at least some portion of the Permanent Security-State Apparatus, did and probably does support “fascist movements in Ukraine”, just as they have in so many other places around the globe.

    Is there anything that would change your mind and/or rooting interests in Ukraine?

    There’s always a possiblity — anything is possible! — but apart from supporting all efforts to get “the US” out of the surreptious-meddling-in-other-peoples’-business business, I project that my opinion will remain “Not my circus, not my monkey.”

  181. 181.

    SFAW

    August 30, 2014 at 10:36 pm

    @trollhattan:

    Unlike the Arizona death, there will definitely be a bigass lawsuit arising from this occurrence.

    I’m kinda sorta hoping that the idiot parents of the nine-year-old girl sue (A) the firing range and (B) the parents of the alleged “instructor” for:
    (A) Allowing a fucking imbecile to have any position of responsibility at that range
    and
    (B) Raising such a fucking imbecile, i.e., someone who would let a nine-year-old fire an Uzi on full auto.

    because that girl is probably going to be having nightmares for awhile.

    Then, with any luck, the girl can sue her idiot parents for being idiots, and fucking up her psyche.

  182. 182.

    SFAW

    August 30, 2014 at 10:49 pm

    Re: Fashion choices:

    When asked by David Gregory Chuck Todd a Village Idiot for to comment re: Peter King’s concerns, a Mr. “Luther,” responding on behalf of the President, said “Pog mo thoin, motherfucker. And while you’re at it, quit playing pocket-pool with your teeny-weeny-shillelagh.”

  183. 183.

    SFAW

    August 30, 2014 at 10:53 pm

    @Anne Laurie:

    After being away for a couple of days, I can’t tell you how glad I am that I made it back to BJ in time for yet another attempted threadjack from Bob in Portlandia.

  184. 184.

    xian

    August 31, 2014 at 9:50 am

    what is it about this blog that it attracts threadjacking un-selfaware monomaniacs?

    and of all things this time, an anti-western Russian apologist on a center-left blog!

  185. 185.

    Cervantes

    August 31, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    @SFAW:
    @xian:

    How exactly do you “threadjack” anything if you’re one person?

    Plus how do you “threadjack” an open thread?

  186. 186.

    SFAW

    August 31, 2014 at 4:49 pm

    @Cervantes:

    Plus how do you “threadjack” an open thread?

    Mind control? Powerful hallucinogens? Fluoridated water? Time Cube? Flies in his eyes? Pay off someone?

    In any event, please notice that I used the word “attempted” as a modifier.

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