Much as I respect the man, a Bernie Sanders presidential campaign in 2016 would be a Jesse Jackson 1988 campaign, or a Newt Gingrich 2012 campaign; mostly personal-brand enhancement, with a media-friendly gloss about the Overton Window. But, as per those past campaigns, there’s also the “discourage the dreamers” spoiler effect… and that’s clearly why Chuck Toad wanted Sanders’ input. Look! Dems in disarray! Everybody already hates the not-yet-even-declared nominee! Not to mention, crazy SOCIALIST person, soon to be officially part of the failed Democrat Party… Way to honor your allegiance to the Media Villagers, Mr. Todd.
***********
Speaking of the 2014 elections, yesterday was the last of Tom Harkin’s famed Steak Fries:
INDIANOLA, Iowa — Hillary Rodham Clinton jumped back into the partisan fray here Sunday, framing the November midterm elections as “a choice between the guardians of gridlock and the champions of shared opportunity” and warning Democrats of the consequences of complacency….
“In 50 days, every Iowa voter needs to know that from the president on down to local officials, we Democrats are for raising the minimum wage, for equal pay for equal work, for making college and technical training affordable, for growing the economy to benefit everyone,” Clinton said. “And our opponents are not.”
In a nod to the state’s role hosting the first presidential caucuses, Clinton added: “Too many people only get excited about presidential campaigns. Look, I get excited about presidential campaigns, too. But . . . use the enthusiasm that Iowa is so well known for every presidential year and channel that into these upcoming elections. Don’t wake up the day after the election and feel bad and wonder what more you could have done.”…
Both Clintons urged Iowa Democrats to do all they could to elect Rep. Bruce Braley (D), who is locked in a tight race to replace Harkin, and referenced his opponent, state Sen. Joni Ernst (R), though not by name. Hillary Clinton mentioned Ernst’s opposition to a federal minimum wage and noted that women hold a majority of minimum-wage jobs, including those that rely mostly on tips, such as waiters, bartenders and hairstylists…
Harkin was emotional in his remarks Sunday night — he thanked longtime staffers, even calling one up on stage for a hug — but also resolute about the political battles ahead. He called on his supporters to give Republicans “a good whipping” in November.
“Since I got into politics, I always believed that an obligation of our government is to make sure we leave the ladder down for others to climb, too,” Harkin said. “I may be retiring from the Senate, but I’m not retiring from the fight.”
***********
And speaking of failed candidates, celebrated Alaskan political blog The Mudflats has a comprehensive update on the Palin family’s latest reintroduction to the national media:
… It should be mentioned that at least as far as I know, Sarah Palin does not drink anything but diet Redbull, and skinny white chocolate mochas. While governor, she didn’t even let Todd drink beer, forcing him to sneak off to the garage alone to enjoy his foamy amber coping mechanism. So, we can assume if this pattern of behavior has held true, that as she struggled to throw herself into the thick of the brawl, she was stone cold sober…
***********
My emphases. Apart from rolling our eyes, what’s on the agenda as we start another week?
Amir Khalid
I used to wonder what the Palins were a parody of, but upon further reflection I have decided I’d rather not know.
Isn’t Bernie Sanders well past eighty? The Democratic party should seek someone at least a decade younger, like Joe Biden or Hillary Clinton.
BillinGlendaleCA
Alaskan Amber Ale, yummy. Though I no longer imbibe, I did have the pleasure of drinking quite a few back in the day.
SRW1
I might be totally wrong, but I kindda had the impression that La Palina does best anyway with the demographic that considers shouting matches, occasionally expanding into punches being thrown, as a fairly routine way of resolving matters while doing this living business. In that sense she probably simply has reached her predestined position.
As I said, though, I might be wrong, maybe she’s all refined intellectual behind this rube business veneer.
raven
Joe is pissed off because Hillary hasn’t announced while people are getting their heads cut off. And Jeb too!
Baud
@raven:
Someone beheaded Jeb?
BillinGlendaleCA
@Baud: No, Joe wants Jeb to shit or get off the pot.
Mustang Bobby
@raven: Yeah, I saw that tantrum. Geez, Joe, get a grip.
By the way, if Joe doesn’t know Hillary is running, he’s the only one in America that doesn’t, and everyone — including Mitt Romney — plays the coy will they/won’t they game. It’s part of the deal.
Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Well his brother misunderstood that old adage badly, W got off the pot & shit all over everything.
Amir Khalid
@Amir Khalid:
I still have no insight into her family, but it has occurred to me that Sarah Palin is the Republican party’s Lindsay Lohan.
divF
I’m having a white night in California so I have the opportunity to gripe about how I miss out on all the good stuff in the comments by being on the west coast. How many times is there a nice juicy thread going and by the time I wake up and see it has 150 comments and run out of gas. Same thing happens in the evening after work and dinner. Grumble.
OzarkHillbilly
Remember “triangulation”? Remember “welfare reform”? Financial deregulation?
Right now, the only pressure Hillary feels is from the right, which if you feel that we should have invaded Syria a year ago, or that Social Security is out of control, is probably OK with you. It’s not with me. She needs to feel some pressure from the left, and we need to have a reason to support her, cause things will get rough.
I wish it was Joe Biden who was going to run, but if Bernie runs, he probably has my vote in the primary. I always vote with my heart in the primaries anymore. Come the general I’ll vote with my head.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@Mustang Bobby: I heard most of Hillary’s speech rebroadcast on C-Span Radio. She did sound like she wanted people to think she’s a candidate. But I still think she won’t run. Why was she almost invisible in helping other candidates until Harkin’s event? If she were seriously committed to running, wouldn’t she have been out there helping other candidates before now? Her going to Harkin’s last even could be little more than a last party for an important member of the Democratic leadership that she likes and respects,
I’m not unbiased, but I really hope she gets some help with her speeches if she does decide to run. She. sounds . so . mechanical . as . she . carefully . enunciates . each . word . with . a . pause . between . them. Her delivery sucked all the life out of the event. It’s slow and deliberate enough that it gives me (and maybe others) time to parse every word. (“Why did she say, ‘Women should have the right to make their own medical decisions.” rather than ‘Women must have the right …’??) But, to be honest, she’s sounded that way in her speeches (to me at least) for decades and it hasn’t hurt her much. So, I guess others think it’s not a big deal.
Supposedly she’ll finally say what she’s doing next year.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kay
Sanders would run in the primary and if (when) he loses the primary he’d be out. I don’t know why he can’t run in a primary. Republicans will have at least 5 people in their primary.
I hope having a primary doesn’t mean “Democrats in disarray” now, because it’s obvious Martin O’Malley is also running.
OzarkHillbilly
@divF: I rarely bother after the morning thread.
@Amir Khalid: It’s easy Amir, she is south St Louis white trash. We have them in every state, it’s just that in most states there are enuf other people that the white trash can’t dominate. Alaska, not so much.
Betty Cracker
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Sanders to a grifter like Gingrich. Sanders is genuinely committed to an honest-to-god progressive approach. He knows he’s not going to win the primary, but he wants to force the actual candidates to address issues Democrats care about. Good for him.
Kay
@Mustang Bobby:
Why do they think people will announce before the midterms? They’re not going to do that. It’s a horrible idea. They’re all going to be saying exactly what she said “vote in the midterms”.
Mustang Bobby
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Since she left office she’s been studying at the Shatner School of Oral Interpretation.
That was Joe’s complaint; she sounds canned/pre-fab. But we’ve had so many examples of extemporaneous flame-outs recently (Dean Scream, “macaca,” 47%) that she’s being overly cautious. I’m not saying it’s a good thing; just that’s how they roll now.
I’ve never doubted for a second that she’s running. But. It’s. All. In. The. Timing.
JGabriel
Anne Laurie @ Top:
And yet, I’d vote for Sanders if he’s still in the primary by the time it gets to NY. Gotta support the only openly Social Democrat in office – even if it’s a purely quixotic endeavor – because Sanders is the only one running in the party I wish we had.
JPL
Is there any chance that the Palin’s will be shamed into disappearing for awhile? Someone posted this video of Sarah last night. Jezebel link
Is this the pay per view thing Sarah set up? If I had registered for that, I’d cancel my subscription.
@raven: When I first saw your comment, I thought you meant the veep.
Hillary is not going to announce before the November elections, because she doesn’t want to get her hands dirty.
Mustang Bobby
@JPL:
These people don’t do shame.
JGabriel
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
Late next year. Clinton’s gotta declare before IA/NH caucus/primary, but there are financial and campaign advantages (with respect to FCC regulation) to making the announcement as late as possible. So I’m guessing Clinton probably won’t officially announce her candidacy until November 2015.
Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]
There is that famous Clinton triangulation again. By not supporting anyone she can’t be tied to a loser I suppose. We need an actual liberal candidate to at least run in the primary or whats the Democrat Party for?
BillinGlendaleCA
@JPL:
Disagree, if Hillary announced now it’d suck all the oxygen out of the room. It’s all the villagers would be talking about.
Anne Laurie
@Kay:
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, I probably phrased that badly. I do think Sanders is a good man and a real progressive, and I don’t mind having as many Democrats as want to make the effort run in the primaries. It’s the Toad’s lip-licking, smarmy “So… you say That Lady doesn’t deserve the nomination? You think there will be… a contest for the soul of the Democrat Party?”
And now I really need to go to bed!
Kay
@JGabriel:
Before she got to Iowa there was a story that she wasn’t going to come out on income inequality, and then she supported the minimum wage increase in the speech and said income inequality was the issue.
I hope they’re not doing that Clinton thing, where they get too clever by half and set the “middle” on the Right and then fake Left. Supporting an increase in the minimum wage isn’t “the liberal position” in the Democratic Party. It’s the majority position. It’s the minimum.
I felt like she was a much better candidate halfway thru the last primary when she stopped being so careful, probably because it was a real race, they knew she was in trouble so they took some risk. I hope they’re not going back to 1000 consultants endlessly fine-tuning and setting the stage for every speech. It just makes me nervous. It’s a bad idea for her. The rap on her is “inauthentic”. She shouldn’t play into that.
Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]
Question from last nights Roosevelt documentary: Has George Will always had that horrible comb-over or is that a recent event? It was seriously reaching Trump levels of hilarity. I try to pay no attention to Will at all but was sort of forced to last night (he added the sort of insight we have come to expect from a man of his stature – minus baseball).
Kay
I think the Kansas governor’s race is the most interesting in the country.
Hopefully Democrats will pay attention to what happened there, even if Brownback ultimately wins.
OzarkHillbilly
@Betty Cracker: This.
Keith G
@Anne Laurie: I am glad you added this comment. I was beginning to wonder what the hell you are typing about. The loyal Left (for lack of a better phrase) of the Democratic party needs someone like Bernie Sanders to be sure their goals and needs are addressed. Without that, I fear there is no way in hell these ideas would be touched upon with any intensity.
The Left needs vocal leadership. Sanders is not the best that we need, but he can be very good and he is the person on hand at the moment.
Kay
@Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]:
I don’t blame her at all for waiting. I think Democrats would be mad if she announced. The entire political media would be following her around.
I don’t like a lot of things about Hillary Clinton but I think she is absolutely a loyal Democrat, a “Party person”. It’s like she can’t win on that. The rap against her in Ohio in ’08 was she was so plugged in to the Democratic Party infrastructure that no one could get past her, that every state politician and county chair had already committed to her. It’s like whatever she does there it’s wrong. She’s either a plugged-in political hack or a disloyal, selfish opportunist.
debbie
@Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]:
I noticed that too! He needs to avoid tight close-ups and stick to long shots.
debbie
@SRW1:
My bet is the description of her jumping onto the top of the pile to break up the fight really titillated her supporters.
Alex S.
Is Sanders even allowed to run in the democratic primary? I mean, he isn’t one. How can Democrats be in disarray if there’s just one Democrat in the game?
@Kay:
I think that race is definitely lost for Brownback.
Kay
@Keith G:
I love how he says “oligarchy”. O-LA-garchy. I wait for it :)
It makes everyone squirm.
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: The Right Wing wet dream trifecta of policy was tried in Kansas and has been a complete failure. How bad is it? It turned out so bad it has turned Kansas blue.***
*** not really but it has them thinking blue
Botsplainer
Palin’s demographic genuinely appreciates authentic family dysfunction wrapped in a thick veneer of candyassed Christian sanctimony, lies and hypocrisy. Violence, substance abuse, sloth, greed and sexual indiscretions can all occur in abundance so long as the perp says “I’m imperfect and Jesus forgives me. Why can’t you forgive me? Are you that unChristian that you would persecute me so?!?”
Kay
@Alex S.:
Yay. Are you in Kansas? I started following it when I saw a PPP poll months ago. I was thinking “they hate him! great!”
I saw the teacher protest in the statehouse in the spring and it was ignored nationally, although it looked pretty damn big to me.
gogol's wife
@Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]:
He’s disgusting. Why do they include him with serious and pseudo-serious historians? He’s not even pseudo.
Woodrowfan
@Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]: he’s had the Trump-look for some years now. And WTF is he doing on the Roosevelts??? He’s not a historian. He must still be on Ken Burns’ Rolodex from “Baseball” 20 years ago. Ugh.
debbie
@gogol’s wife:
He was also pretty negative in his opinion of FDR and Ethel.
raven
@Woodrowfan: Veteran testifies at Teddy’s campaign stop,
“He led us up San Juan Hill like lambs to the slaughter and he’ll do the same for you!” Priceless.
Baud
@raven:
Wasn’t there a Bushism in the same vein?
NotMax
Always liked Bernie, but a Sanders run would be the equivalent of Kucinich without the UFOs. Perhaps the Senator from Vermont is in need of an extended phone chat with Mike Gravel.
raven
@Baud: Except Bush never led anyone anywhere.
Alex S.
@Kay:
Whenver the Kansas Republicans overreach, there’s a switch to the Democrats. That’s how Sebelius governed. Her Lt. Gov. was a former republican who switched parties. It’s a pretty standard procedure whenever the republicans get too extreme. There’s still a faint progressive streak in Kansas which distinguishes it from, say, Oklahoma or Wyoming. This keeps the Democrats somewhat viable, at least viable enough to say that right now, there is no race. It’s already over because Brownback crossed the line.
NotMax
@raven
Well, he led Arbusto Energy into collapse.
fidelity
@OzarkHillbilly: You’re right about that; plenty of people in Kansas get blue every time they look at the mess Brownback has made of things.
Whether they’ll vote blue as a result…well, that’s another thing altogether.
Johnson County, which is full of people who fled Kansas City, Missouri’s school problems, is the big tax engine for Kansas these days. They want good schools. They want reliable infrastructure. They are nowhere nearly as socially conservative as the GOP would like to believe they should be. Not a lot of Brownback fans. They have fantasies about an actual working government, and not about being guinea pigs in the Kochs’ governmental laboratory.
Many of those Republicans turning to purple in Kansas represent a party tradition that goes back to the 1850s and the Border Wars over slavery, when the Republicans were the wild-eyed Social Justice Warriors, with their abolitionism and notions about African-American and female suffrage. Many are painfully realizing they have more in common with the Democrats than the current incarnation of the party of their ancestors. things are going to be untidy in the Sunflower State for a while.
Baud
@raven:
Except down a hellhole.
But I vaguely recall Bush saying something like “I took the fight to al Qaeda and I’ll do the same to you.” I’m probably butchering the quote but it was something like that.
JPL
@raven: Some think he led us over a cliff.
raven
He may have led ya’ll.
Cervantes
@NotMax:
@Anne Laurie:
I’m not as cynical as you apparently are about the need for a broader public debate, nor do I object to anyone running in a primary election — not Jackson in 1988, not Gingrich in 2012, not Kucinich ever, and not Sanders now.
Re Sanders, if he is running, he may even get my vote, depending on how intelligent or generous or courageous his positions are.
Kay
@Alex S.:
Thanks. State races are weirder than national elections. They go off in all directions. The Ohio dem candidate for governor crashed and burned, rather spectacularly, because he was driving (alone) for a decade on a learner’s permit which is illegal. It’s not even interesting as a scandal. It’s just dumb on his part but it probably takes him out of the running. The most loyal Democrats here ask me “why doesn’t he have a driver’s license? I have to have a driver’s license if I’m driving.” It looks like he thinks he’s better than everyone else, which is the fucking kiss of death here.
Oh, well. Win some, lose some. Maybe Cordray will run next time.
It’s great to see the Democrat running on “I will freeze the tax cuts” in Kansas. They’re not supposed to be able to say that. Not ever.
NotMax
Saw this for the first time at Costco and made a “what the hell, why not” impulse buy.
Undecided as yet. Requires more personal testing (ongoing as we speak).
Outside review.
Suffern ACE
@gogol’s wife: well someone has to ask the serious questions that the right wing asks. Like was Eleanor homely because like all Democrat party women she, didn’t know how to please her man, or was she homely on purpose because she was a lesbian?
Cervantes
@gogol’s wife:
They include him for “balance.”
Fact and perspective and analysis has to be balanced against, you know, George Will.
Kay
@Cervantes:
I never read him, but I saw a recent column where he said Democrats aren’t promoting Sherrod Brown because they have to promote Elizabeth Warren due to “identity politics”. It’s reverse gender bias!
I just don’t think that theory is going anywhere. Maybe in 1993.
NotMax
@Suffern ACE
Always was impressed with how the otherwise classically attractive Greer Garson portrayed Eleanor in Sunrise At Campobello.
Pic with Garson and E. Roosevelt together on the set.
Suffern ACE
@Kay: something tells me that Sherrod Brown doesn’t want to be the candidate of male resentment.
Botsplainer
The “Happy Happy Joy Joy” progressive glory of Scot independence has ripples far beyond mere economics and domestic issues.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=25503368
There are profound effects on NATO and the EU, all of them hugely negative.
NotMax
@SuffrnACE
Shallow as it may be, it remains so. Sherrod Brown’s voice precludes him from getting anywhere in a national campaign.
It’s sound is akin to a cement mixer full of Brillo pads.
Kay
@Suffern ACE:
He loves women! It’s a huge part of his persona. It doesn’t make any sense anyway. Brown and Warren are best buddies in the Senate. As we speak they are haranguing regulators about student loans. They’re a team.
Collaborative.
George Will wouldn’t understand that because it’s a female trait :)
The idea that the Senate is a second-rate, also-ran job has to die. Jesus Christ. I know it’s boring and everyone hates process, but it’s a real job. They get better at it after they do it awhile. They’re hugely powerful, and he’s particularly valuable because he’s probably the most liberal end of the spectrum who can get elected statewide in a 50/50 state and he has that shambling, friendly demeanor that doesn’t frighten Chuck Todd.
NotMax
@Suffern ACE
Shallow as it may be, it remains so. Sherrod Brown’s voice precludes him from getting anywhere in a national campaign.
It’s sound is akin to a cement mixer full of Brillo pads.
(Reposted to correct Suffern’s cybernym. My bad on that.)
Addendum: Sort of the mirror image of the problem Paul Simon faced – great candidate on paper, wonderful voice. But a face and wardrobe made for radio.
Suffern ACE
@Botsplainer: frankly, if Scotland goes, the “rump” UK will also need to reapply for EU membership. That will be fun to watch.
All of the “problems” mentioned are solvable. To think of them otherwise is simply scaremongering from Westminster because Westminster doesn’t have a compelling case for staying in union. “Europe will end up ruined and it will be all Scotland’s fault” is ridiculous.
big ole hound
@Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]: That is an atrocious wig combined with the comb over. My guess is he is just plain monk bald.
Cervantes
@Kay: As someone once said about George Will, finding new opportunities to cast aspersions on the left is a primary, if not the only, purpose.
Jeremy
@debbie: I knew he was going to be negative towards FDR and Ethel. The guy is a right wing hack. I’m sure when they have a documentary on the Obama’s they will include hacks like George Will.
Cervantes
@Suffern ACE:
Not sure the Tories would want to — at least the current crop of Tories.
PurpleGirl
@Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]: Re the comb-over. I have no idea as I do not watch talk shows. Besides the comb-over, he looked orange. Too much time in a tanning bed.
Chris
@fidelity:
I’ve thought for a while that the abolitionists and Radical Republicans were to the late XIX century what the DFHs and New Left were to the late XX one. There’s a similarity in the official “consensus” that formed after them – grudgingly agreeing with the radicals on (slavery and secession in the first case, civil rights and the Vietnam draft and 1950s social issues morality in the second case), but nevertheless portraying them as wide-eyed fanatics trying to burn down society, and their enemies as respectable gentlemen. The whole “wrong for the right reasons” meme is basically that in a nutshell.
jibeaux
I’m just here to say that “diet redbull and skinny white chocolate [sic] mochas” will be haunting my nightmares posthaste. Blech.
Iowa Old Lady
I went to the gym and aerobics class was cancelled, so a good day so far!
SFAW
He only used the garage because Sarah wouldn’t let him secede to form Beerchugistan.
SFAW
@Jeremy:
Ethel?
rikyrah
The 16 best places to see fall foliage
Who just wants to stand around and watch the red and gold leaves slowly fall from their tree branches to the ground as we move from summer to fall? Instead, take in the changing seasons while you’re on the move.
From hiking through Vermont’s North Woods to fishing in Michigan like a literary legend, we searched the country for the best spots to get the true autumn experience.
http://living.msn.com/life-inspired/celebrating-everyday-joys/slideshow?cp-documentid=264854953
NotMax
As am going on a trip and may or may not be internet active, one thing to be on the lookout for on TCM this coming weekend:
The Little Giant, 1 p.m. (Eastern), Friday.
Edward G. (never nominated for an Oscar) Robinson acting his little heart out parodying* his tough gangster persona.
*Although if and when it shows up, Larceny, Inc.is the ne plus ultra of Robinson lampooning Robinson.
Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]
@debbie:
The line from “League Of Their Own”:
“Play a lot of night games!”
“Marla Hooch, Man what a third baseman!”
samiam
There is NOTHING that shows how much of an irrelevant joke the orange satan dkos has become than the recommended posts getting all excited about a Bernie Sanders presidential bid.
A close second would be more Michael Moore posts getting to the top of the recommended list because he blames Obama for his cold oatmeal. Anyone remember harping on about Obamacare being a sellout and how people should not vote in 2010. Boy that sure wears well on him now don’t it!
WereBear
@NotMax: Dang. Now I want some :)
I’m fine with HRC if we can muster some pressure from her Left… that worked last time, when she was running against BHO. And I liked when she loosened up and became more “herself.” Whatever that is, after decades in politics.
It’s like the recent NY primary, where Teachout really put some dings in Cuomo’s fenders.
We Progressive Liberals should have our view represented, not just taken for granted.
Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]
@raven:
Given TR’s leadership style I always wondered if that was a mistake, on purpose or just a Freudian slip.
@debbie:
Gee, what a surprise. A rightwing hack who thinks poorly of FDR. The attacks on Eleanor just expose how morally bankrupt they were/still are
Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]
@raven:
NOT TRUE!
Boy Blunder lead us straight down the toilet. We are swirling into third-world status in no small part because of the excellent job he did leading us in a head-long charge to disaster. Lord Cardigan could not have done it better.
Steeplejack (tablet)
Up a little too early. Even though her lord and master returned yesterday, the whippet slept with me last night and was more fractious than usual. Up and down, under the comforter, back out, constant shifting and repositioning, occasional sighs. I would love to see an NIH sleep study on this. Just don’t want to participate.
But what a pleasure to lie in bed and get caught up on Balloon Juice.
raven
@Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]:
Cervantes
@SFAW:
I think he meant Fred.
NotMax
@Schlemazel [was Schlemizel ’til NotMax taught me proper Yiddish!]
Geo. W. Bush, the Stanley Tweedle of presidents.
(Apologies to non-Lexx viewers.)
Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]
@raven:
Prior to running his men ragged he lead an unauthorized charge up Kettle Hill (which they mention heroically on the show) and several other reckless things. He campaigned with all his political might to be awarded the Medal of Honor.
How this guy (who, from my reading, was a serious head case) made a great President is beyond me. His personal history as a public servant is very good but his personal life made me think he had some real problems & probably should not have been in any position to be POTUS.
Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]
@Cervantes:
Given FDR’s predilections he probably was pumping Ethel too!
That (pumping Ethel) is now such an old joke few people probably get it.
raven
@Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]: Ever see “The Wind and the Lion”? Brian Keith is great as Teddy and Connery does a nine “Sultan”!
Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]
@raven:
Yes but it was a long time ago & I had not read any more on TR than the cardboard cutout provided by public school education.
I remember at the time thinking Keith badly overplayed TR but later after reading about him thought maybe he had underplayed him! DOn’t remember much of the film now.
askew
After watching the Steak Fry, I want to punch Harkin for trying to give credit to Hillary for Obamacare. Don’t encourage her credit stealing. And the only Clinton that is up to a presidential campaign is Bill. Hillary was stiff and completely lacking in charisma. She’s worse than she was in 2008. Yikes! It’s too bad Bill’s policy views are so conservative, because he has the skill to have been a great president. But, his conservative views in combination with a willingness to put politics ahead of policy left Obama with a massive mess to clean-up.
NotMax
@raven>i
Not a bad film, although a shining example (re: Conney) of why one ought to eschew purchasing dentures by mail.
rikyrah
Bernie Sanders, though very left, is also very informed on the issues. And, if he can squeeze out definite positions from Hillary, then it will be worth it.
What are Hillary-Stans afraid of…since Bernie is ‘ not a serious candidate’.
You all get offended when people like me bring up it seems like Hillary wants a CORONATION, instead of actually WINNING the Democratic Party Primaries and Caucuses.
raven
@NotMax: “you are a very dangerous man”. . .
NotMax
T.R. and San Juan Hill? Still one of the greatest internet hoaxes ever.
Southern Beale
Yet another study debunking the cherished right-wing myth that more guns equates with lower crime. Guess what? It’s not true.
askew
@Kay:
If she is so loyal, why isn’t she working for the midterms. She’s done the Steak Fry and has 3 private fundraisers for the Dem committees and that is it. O’Malley, Warren, Biden, Obama, and Michelle Obama are all doing more than Hillary is. Hillary seems to be too busy making money for herself to bother doing anything to help in the midterms. I am guessing she is more concerned about using her political capital on potential losers or making a mistake on the stump prior to announcing her run than she is about the party.
Ruckus
@JPL:
There is no chance that she will disappear. Why would she? How would she? First she’d have to have some cognitive recognition that she’s a very minor national joke. That’s never going to happen, she’s what in her 50’s and hasn’t figured it out? She is as @OzarkHillbilly: pointed out, poor white trash. That is not going to change either no matter how many shopping trips others pay for or how many grifts she and the family are involved in.
Elizabelle
@askew:
FWIW, I am getting a bunch of emails from Ready for Hillary about volunteering for the midterms. Assume they’re mainly building/double-checking their list, but have had at least 4-5 by now.
Chris
@Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]:
I suppose it depends on your definition of “lead,” since someone else was in charge for so much of the time.
Makes me wonder who the Dick Cheney character would’ve been in a hypothetical Romney administration, as Romney didn’t seem much more interested than W at presidenting.
askew
@Elizabelle:
She has nothing to do with that group. Those are just her loyal supporters. I am talking about effort that Hillary herself is doing. Not her husband. Not her loyal fans. What is Hillary doing? She seems lazy or disinterested right now. And judging by her poor performance yesterday, she certainly needs the practice.
O’Malley and Warren are both working their asses off for 2014, but Hillary is too busy making money for herself to do more than the bare minimum.
Cervantes
@Chris:
Interesting. Knowing Romney, I can’t picture him turning power over the way Bush didn’t even know he was doing.
Cervantes
@Ruckus:
I know what you mean — it’s a type, even if I despise the use of the phrase.
Still, let’s not forget that her net worth is in excess of ten million dollars. If nothing else it reminds us how gullible her current victims are.
DougJ
I’m voting “not Hillary” in the primary just like I voted “not Cuomo”.
WereBear
They think they are getting high value for their money. One of Their Own is important and powerful and famous and “hasn’t changed a bit.”
They laugh and nudge each other and are proud and happy. That’ll show ’em! Look down on them, will ya, when Sarah Palin was a governor and a VP candidate and now a shiny celebrity!
They are thrilled.
Kay
@askew:
They bring the Clintons out where they think they can use them. I just don’t think “selfish Hillary” is a real objection.
Comparing Martin o’Malley to the Clintons as far as campaigning for other Democrats just isn’t a good comparison. They draw 100 times what he draws, which is why they bring them in at the end where they can do some good. He knows that, and they know it.
Obama is the sitting Dem President. Of course he’ll campaign for Democrats.
I didn’t support Clinton in the last primary and I think it’s great that O’Malley and Sanders are running, but saying she isn’t a loyal Democrat or a hardworking person isn’t true, IMO.
burnspbesq
Not sure I fully buy this argument, but it adds an interesting twist to the discussion about whether action against ISIS is authorized by the 2001 AUMF.
http://justsecurity.org/15014/isisisil-remains-al-qaida-security-council-so/
Elizabelle
I heart Elizabeth Warren.
I realize she’s valuable in the Senate, but she is so plain spoken and knowledgeable, about issues getting shoved under the rug, that I see her doing very well on the campaign trail.
Please run, Elizabeth!!
I will vote for Hillary, and do GOTV, if she’s the nominee, but I’d like to see other viable candidates too. Too many eggs in one basket.
askew
@Kay:
I think you are making a lot of excuses for Hillary. Candidates have been clamoring for her help for months now and she is nowhere to be found.
Bill is certainly hitting the campaign trail hard, but Hillary can’t be bothered. We’ll see if she does more than the bare minimum leading up to November, I’d be shocked.
A loyal Democrat works for the party and doesn’t go around in the media taking a shit on a Dem president and his team because it helps her. I’ve seen nothing since she left SoS that shows that she gives a shit about anyone but herself. But, that has been the Clinton way for decades now. No reason to be surprised by it now.
The main reason she needs to be doing the hard work for November is her rusty campaign skills. She stunk up the joint yesterday. Thankfully, her husband was there to save her.
burnspbesq
@DougJ:
How about, just once, you be for something?
Schlemazel [was Schlemizel till NotMax taught me proper yiddish!]
@Chris:
I think Willard was very much the CEO that W pretended to be. He would never allow a big decision to be done by a subordinate. There would have been a whole palace full of CHeney wannabes stabbing it out to be the one to feed Mr Big with the solution. Much messier for the nation & bloodier inside.
Kay
@askew:
I’m not sure what she would have to do at this point to prove her loyal Democrat bona fides. She had a really competitive primary for the presidency, one she LOST which had to be heart-breaking, and she not only campaigned for Obama, she worked for him.
With everyone else, it’s “politics isn’t beanbag!” but with Clinton for some reason it’s “why doesn’t she pull for the team and sacrifice her ambition?” It just makes me uncomfortable. I feel as if we’re holding her to a different standard as far as cooperating and “helping” rather than competing.
Cervantes
@burnspbesq: Someone’s failure to correct outdated lists is not much of an argument.
Kay
@askew:
I think Bill Clinton shoots his big mouth off and undermines Democrats a lot more than Hillary Clinton does, yet with him it’s always “well, the Big Dog can’t be contained!”
She’s allowed to run a campaign. She wants to win. Why do I never hear of this horrid lack of self-sacrifice about male candidates? She’s insanely competitive and sometimes self-centered? We’ve never, ever seen that in a politician before. I’m shocked.
Kay
@askew:
Bill Clinton came to Ohio and wouldn’t take the stage with the Democratic candidate for governor, because they thought he was going to lose. He will lose. They’re right.
They all know what’s going on here with campaigning, where and with whom they campaign, and none of them take it personally. The Clintons have been at this for 30 years.
catclub
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet:
My sentiments exactly. I think it was at Political Animal that the guy was saying she does not need any chits in terms of indebtedness for her help. True, but the rest of the party ( if she is helpful) needs her help if it will make a difference.
The old parallel is Nixon in 1966 helping candidates. In Nixonland,
it is pointed out that Nixon carefully picked marginal House seats that had been won by Democrats in the 1964 landslide, and so would be likely to fall back to the GOP, to help in. This made his efforts look most effective. Now, House seats are somewhat less subject to washing back and forth.
catclub
@askew:
links, with quotes, or you are just making up shit. an entire industry manufactures controversy in interpreting what she does, but usually fails to show the damning quotes – which usually aren’t.
Cervantes
@Kay:
Forty this year.
askew
@Kay:
Sigh. Here we go with the sexism stuff. I think any Dem whether male or female who can help with GOTV efforts needs to get their ass out there and do the hard work. Hillary isn’t doing shit for the midterms and it pisses me off because she is supposed to be the candidate of women who we need to turn out in November. She should be out there generating enthusiasm for the Dem party not taking shots at the guy who saved her career by making her SoS. She has no loyalty to the party or to Obama.
As for Bill, the guy has always been slime. But, he has been doing events for candidates all over the country while Hillary is making money for herself.
The Clintons may have been at this for 30 years, but, their pettiness and need to put themselves about the party is one of the reasons I have never respected either of them.
Ben Cisco
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: I believe this is known as the Shatner Soliloquy effect.
Kay
@Cervantes:
WHEN Bill Clinton came to Ohio and wouldn’t be photographed with the Democrat who will probably lose the governor’s race, several Democrats who were there admired that. They said he probably wanted Kasich to win because that makes a less complicated field for Hillary in ’16, if Kasich stays in the state rather than runs in a GOP Prez primary.
This is considered strategic and a sign that he’s “in it to win it” and all part of the game when it’s BIll Clinton, but if it had been Hillary it would have been “selfish” and “conniving” or whatever.
HR Progressive
Yeah, I take issue with comparing Bernie Sanders’ potential candidacy to Newt’s run in 2012.
Gingrich ran espousing basically the same damn positions as everyone else, only trying to shout “No, Me, I’M THE PUREST!” the loudest, and the craziest.
Assuming that Bernie Sanders runs and sticks to his principles, then in a Hillary vs Bernie fight, Sanders is going to take positions that won’t be the same as Clinton’s, and that Clinton will at some point have to respond to.
Martin O’Malley might have some Sanderesque positions on things, I don’t actually know him well enough other than he supports legalizing pot, I think. Not entirely sure on that.
Democrats / Hillary need a 2016 primary, and it needs to be with different visions/viewpoints.
Even if Sanders, O’Malley, others run and don’t win states the way the Hillary Machine does…that’s fine. I’ll vote for Clinton 2.0 over Rand, Cruz, Rubio, Christie, or any other GOP whackjob that gets through the Clown Car Primary. But I want the chance for the country to hear from a Sanders, etc, before we just give Hillary the nomination.
Ben Cisco
Annnnd Mustang Bobby beat me to it.
catclub
@HR Progressive:
Joe Biden. Old, but lively.
askew
@Kay:
Those Dems are morons. And Bil’s behavior is selfish and conniving.
Kay
@askew:
The ACTUAl Democrat who was running for governor in Florida (as opposed to Charlie Crist, who is whatever he needs to be) probably questions Obama’s loyalty cred because Obama promoted Crist because Crist helped Obama in 2012.
The Democrat in NJ who ran against Chris Christie is probably none too fond of him either, because he absolutely used Christie to show he was above the partisan fray after the hurricane, and Christie used him. They both knew it. They both benefitted. Obama is both a Democrat and an insanely competitive person. There are no two-term Presidents who aren’t good at politics.
They all do it. I just get uncomfortable with “we like her as long as she doesn’t say anything or actually compete and also helps everyone else”. That’s a theme for women.
askew
@Kay:
Wow, that is some Olympic-level deflection. In the end, it doesn’t matter what Obama or Bill does. Hillary owns her own behavior and she sucks for not lifting a finger to help GOTV. Bill and Obama have done work for midterms why can’t Hillary? Why hasn’t Hillary done events with Alison Grimes like Bill has? Why hasn’t Hillary done events with Michelle Nunn like Michelle Obama and Elizabeth Warren has? Why hasn’t she done events with Shaheen, Quinn, etc. like O’Malley has?
I don’t care what Obama did or didn’t do in 2012. I care what he does in 2014 and he’s working hard for the midterms. Why can’t Hillary do the same?
Why is it her supporters always have to attack other Dems to excuse Hillary’s shitty behavior?
And why do Hillary supporters always have to hurl sexism charges at anyone who doesn’t worship Hillary? People are pissed that Hillary isn’t working for 2014. They aren’t sexist. They just want Hillary to work for the party.
I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet
@askew: You’re making some good points, but be careful with the generalizations (“always”). Kay is making some good points, too. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Brother Dingaling
@OzarkHillbilly: Re: “south St Louis white trash”
I’m not a big fan of that expression. Besides, if you want to be accurate, the word is “Hoosier.” (It’s a St. Louis thing.)
Brother Dingaling
@catclub:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hillary+criticizes+obama
Kay
@askew:
Democrats know how to do GOTV. They go door to door. It’s hard, grinding work. If they blame Hillary Clinton for losing a senate seat they should all go look for a new line of work. They have the lists from 2008 and 2012. They know exactly what they have to do.
They blamed Obama in 2010. I didn’t buy that either. They have a huge national campaign apparatus and sacks of money. Maybe they should hire fewer consultants and more organizers.
burnspbesq
@Cervantes:
Au contraire, mon ami. You’re implicitly assuming that that’s what it is. What’s the basis for that assumption?
catclub
@Brother Dingaling: I went and read them and they were weak sauce from an industry that is looking to create controversy. As I requested before: quotes.
askew
@Kay:
So you have no answer for why Hillary isn’t working for the midterms.
And again trying to compare Hillary with Obama. Obama did a lot of GOTV events in 2010. Hillary has done nothing but this steak fry.
Kay
@askew:
I’m okay with anything directed at her as far as policy. I also think any complaints about her campaign style or approach are fine, but opinion.
I think the personal tone where she’s scheming and selfish and not self-sacrificing enough is weird. I heard the same thing about Michelle Obama in 2010. She wouldn’t go to as many events as flailing Democratic candidates wanted her to, so we were all treated to their psychoanalysis about how she isn’t a “team player”.
They do this every time. Every time it looks bad, they all start casting around for someone to blame. I think it’s bullshit. Some of the Senators are incumbents. Is there some point where they get judged on their record? Why isn’t their base coming out for them? They know their state better than Hillary Clinton does.
lol chikinburd
I love Bernie, but no, no, no, no. He’d be to Clinton what Nader was to Bush. Can’t win, but can easily kneecap the viable left-of-center alternative (who I’m hoping will be someone like O’Malley).
(And yes, I do consider it a moral imperative to deny Hillary “Hard-Working Americans” Clinton the nomination, for that reason alone (though war with Iran would do fine for a stand-alone nope).)
Dog On Porch
You disapprove of Sanders challenging Clinton for the democratic nomination, therefore Chuck Todd is deliberately sowing dissent among the party’s rank and file by interviewing him?
Best to go back to the drawing board with that deep thought, Laurie.
WereBear
Bless Bernie Sanders. He keeps reminding people what we CAN accomplish, if we aren’t too stupid/tribal/bigoted to do so.
Let him do what we will. Anything that yanks that window further Left is a good thing.
Bob In Portland
For those of you rooting for the Ukrainian coup government against the rebels of Donbas, this.