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You are here: Home / Politics / War On Drugs / The War on Your Neighbor, aka the War on Drugs / Everybody Live for the Music Go-Round

Everybody Live for the Music Go-Round

by @heymistermix.com|  September 17, 201411:27 am| 110 Comments

This post is in: The War on Your Neighbor, aka the War on Drugs

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teen-use
There was a bit of discussion of teenage drug use in my post on Boyhood a couple of days ago, so I thought this story and graph about the kids in America was interesting. Kids just aren’t drinking as much as they used to, and pot use over the last decade is flat-ish or down a little, depending on which dates you want to compare.

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Reader Interactions

110Comments

  1. 1.

    eric

    September 17, 2014 at 11:33 am

    Primarily, most of the drug-cultured youth are joining ISIS to fight against America and they oppose drug use even more stridently than American culture does.

  2. 2.

    Roger Moore

    September 17, 2014 at 11:36 am

    I only wish we could attribute this to my generation’s awesome parenting skills rather than a broader social trend or lack of lead poisoning.

  3. 3.

    BGinCHI

    September 17, 2014 at 11:39 am

    Cocaine, we barely knew ye.

  4. 4.

    Amir Khalid

    September 17, 2014 at 11:39 am

    Tsk, tsk. Don’t kids today know how to have fun anymore?
    /snark

  5. 5.

    srv

    September 17, 2014 at 11:40 am

    Well, they must be doing something wrong and it just doesn’t fit on your chart.

  6. 6.

    BGinCHI

    September 17, 2014 at 11:41 am

    Also, too, were hallucinogens too low to measure?

    Where have all the trippers gone?

    Free your mind and your ass will follow.

  7. 7.

    Belafon

    September 17, 2014 at 11:42 am

    @srv: They’re listening to Justin Bieber and Nickelback.

  8. 8.

    Frankensteinbeck

    September 17, 2014 at 11:44 am

    Major – and steady! – drops in alcohol and tobacco use are wonderful. In general I don’t care about marijuana, although I might discourage it for this age group for the same reason I discourage sex. The teen years are confusing enough, and they’re generally not ready to handle altered states of consciousness.

  9. 9.

    Mnemosyne

    September 17, 2014 at 11:46 am

    I wonder if part of the slide — especially in tobacco — is due to better screening for stuff like ADHD. It used to be very common for people with undiagnosed ADHD to self-medicate with tobacco (I think my dad was one of them), but someone who’s already on ADHD meds isn’t going to get the same effect from stimulant effect from tobacco that they would without ADHD meds. Just a thought.

  10. 10.

    Mike in NC

    September 17, 2014 at 11:50 am

    I just want those darn kids to stay off my lawn as I sit back and sip on my martini, inhaling my wife’s second-hand smoke.

  11. 11.

    Suzanne

    September 17, 2014 at 11:52 am

    I think part of it is that their parents got high, and who wants to do the same shit as their parents.

    Or it could be that my brother-in-law used them all.

  12. 12.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 17, 2014 at 11:54 am

    @Mnemosyne: Maybe it’s because everyone constantly has their phone in their hands. They fiddle with that to look cool instead of fiddling with their cigs.

  13. 13.

    Violet

    September 17, 2014 at 11:57 am

    From the article:

    Moreover, teens are also more likely to say that marijuana is difficult to obtain today than they were ten years ago.

    Interesting. Wonder why that is.

    @Frankensteinbeck: Re: smoking, also from the article:

    Jonathan Caulkins, a Carnegie Mellon researcher who studies drug use, notes that there’s a strong link between tobacco use and marijuana use, particularly among adolescents. Caulkins suspects that the sharp decline in teen tobacco use is keeping marijuana use levels low: “Success in anti-smoking [efforts] appears to have been ‘protective’ for youth,” he said in an email. Peter Delany of the CBHSQ calls that “a plausible hypothesis.” He notes a similar connection between teen alcohol use and illicit drug use, and says that efforts to curb tobacco and alcohol may be having “a spillover effect” on other drugs.

    Seems anti-one-substance messages have an effect on use of other substances.

  14. 14.

    scav

    September 17, 2014 at 11:59 am

    The any illicit seems to be the flattest. I’d rather expect there’s a lot of churn lurking with whatever of the latest new chemotoys are floating about captured there. Even M&Ms are constantly tweaking the product to keep the buzz going. Managing the PR product cycle has Infiltrated everywhere. But, What! Are thouse youths mocking traditional drugs of choice along with traditional hairstyles and fashion choices? Harumph.

  15. 15.

    Violet

    September 17, 2014 at 12:00 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Drinking alcohol is a well used method of self-medicating for all sorts of things. Maybe recognition of mental health issues and behavioral issues of all kinds contributes to lowering of substance usage. If, say, depression is a “weakness” then you may be more like to self-medicate to deal with it rather than seek treatment because it’s seen as a medical condition. That kind of thing.

  16. 16.

    JustRuss

    September 17, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    I wonder how much of this is due to the rise of digital media. Back in the day, part of the reason we got high was that it was something to do. These days, between Call of Duty, Facebook, Pinterest, texting, sexting….who has the time?

  17. 17.

    Bobby B.

    September 17, 2014 at 12:02 pm

    You…punks! have no idea how good mescaline was. Or how weak the pot was.

  18. 18.

    Violet

    September 17, 2014 at 12:02 pm

    @Suzanne:

    I think part of it is that their parents got high, and who wants to do the same shit as their parents.

    Seem to remember reading somewhere that Kids These Days are choosing to get fewer tattoos because Yuck That’s What Mom and Dad Have and Why Do That To Your Body? Not sure if that’s true, but remember reading something along those lines.

  19. 19.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    September 17, 2014 at 12:03 pm

    A more cynical person than I might respond to this with a pithy observation that the totalitarian state that is America is succeeding in quashing every single last bit of the fun things out of life for ourselves and our children.

    A stone-cold sober future with cameras on every street corner and tight-fisted employers monitoring every keystroke. God, that sounds wonderful.

    ETA: I hope all these results mean is that kids are learning to lie better.

  20. 20.

    SatanicPanic

    September 17, 2014 at 12:04 pm

    @Amir Khalid: You know there are law ‘n’ order Republican types who are saying exactly this. “Kids these days are entitled wussies raised by helicopter parents, they can’t even drink beer and steal cars like we did!”

  21. 21.

    WereBear

    September 17, 2014 at 12:10 pm

    @Mnemosyne: I think that’s an excellent point, and eddies out into a bigger pond; kids have a lot more in the way of useful information and avenues to coping skills than when I was in high school.

    We were the first generation to get told “one puff turns you into a maniac, one pill gets you addicted” and so forth, and I saw dozens of my fellow students discover that wasn’t so… and disbelieve everything adults told them about it from then on.

  22. 22.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 17, 2014 at 12:12 pm

    @CONGRATULATIONS!: I think it probably means that they’re choosing to while away their time with nekkid pictures and immersive video games instead.

  23. 23.

    JR in WV

    September 17, 2014 at 12:18 pm

    Welp, that’s it. The end of the world as we known it.

    I remember being on the bridge of a USN ship at sea, late at night, on the midnight watch, and hearing a Master at Arms (ship’s cop) come up to the Officer of the Desk, and whisper in hs ear that there was a bunch of hippies on the fantail (the non-pointy back of the ship) and he thought they was smoking that marijuana!

    So the next day we was due back into home port after our naval evolution. But then we stopped, and they mustered all the sailors, and had Masters at Arms in all the berthing spaces, and called sailors down to their berths in alphabetical order, to search their lockers in the presence of their officer and the Master at Arms. Looking for contraband drugs.

    It took quite a while, as there were several big berthing area and like nearly a thousand enlisted men.

    At the end of the day, as we slowly steamed into port (actually, we diesel electriced along, the boilers and steam was for other things than making the boat move) the word was passed. Contraband had been discovered,

    It was all brown liquor, all in senior enlisted men’s lockers. No hippies were found, and no Marijuana that could be tied to an individual was located at all. But the Petty Officers (and maybe) the Chiefs all had a little brown for when it was needed, just for medicinal purposes, like getting shitefaced while off duty.

    So the younger folk are using less alcohol, cigges, and drugs. Who coulda knowed? They might be better edumacated too? Maybe?

    I will admit to a Gin and Tonic (or two) of an evening. Maybe a beer or two at a musical gathering in the neighborhood. Looking forward to a Cuba Libre on vacation, but just one. I’ll switch to G&Ts or Rum and fresh-squeezed Orange, lemon and or lime juices to be tropical.

    Sangria too, maybe. to be tropical.

  24. 24.

    beltane

    September 17, 2014 at 12:19 pm

    Cigarettes are also extremely expensive these days. When I was in HS in the mid-1980s, a pack could be purchased with the spare change one found lying around the house. This is no longer the case.

  25. 25.

    Tommy

    September 17, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    I don’t have any kids myself. But as a guy that has smoked some pot. Done a few drugs. Had an adult beverage or two. Had way too many I might add. If I had a kid I would kind of want them to smoke pot and not drink or do the other things I’ve done.

  26. 26.

    Tommy

    September 17, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    @beltane: I am a smoker. Not proud of that. $7 bucks a pack. I often think I should stop for many reasons, the top my health. The second for what I pay I could freaking fly around the world.

  27. 27.

    catclub

    September 17, 2014 at 12:27 pm

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    I hope all these results mean is that kids are learning to lie better.

    That was what I expected. Everything is recorded, so just lie.

  28. 28.

    WereBear

    September 17, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    @catclub: I would agree, except isn’t this the same generation that texts their genitals to each other? I had a terrible time convincing teens I know that Facebook privacy settings are about as firm and useful as a tissue paper parachute.

  29. 29.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 17, 2014 at 12:37 pm

    @WereBear: Heh heh, you said “firm.”

  30. 30.

    Peej

    September 17, 2014 at 12:40 pm

    Could be the increased Rx’s for SSRIs are helping kids cope better. Personally, when I was on Paxil, though in my early 20s, not teens, I went from having trouble sleeping, having no appetite (my 6’2″ frame went to 150lbs) and having constant thoughts of existential dread to wanting to do cartwheels with glee in less than a month. Sure, I couldn’t launch one spermatozoa from my reproductive bazooka, but the parting of the black clouds was worth the anorgasmia.

    Take that, L. Ron!

  31. 31.

    MomSense

    September 17, 2014 at 12:41 pm

    I can’t focus on the topic because I’m too busy dealing with the ear worm from the title of this post. Why is it that songs with extended la la lalalala la la lalalala sections are so hard to get out of my head???

  32. 32.

    Gindy51

    September 17, 2014 at 12:50 pm

    @scav: Heroin and meth is up in our small, rural mostly white community. The other things are down in use. The two substances I listed are way easier to get than legal drugs. Some kids also raid mum and dad’s medical cabinet for pain pills and use those.

  33. 33.

    Belafon

    September 17, 2014 at 12:55 pm

    The older generations were using drugs to compensate for the lead in their systems.

  34. 34.

    MomSense

    September 17, 2014 at 12:57 pm

    @Gindy51:

    Heroin is way up in our little town. The kids were telling me about a friend of theirs from school who is in a very bad way and it was pretty shocking. I never would have predicted that she would use heroin.

  35. 35.

    gbear

    September 17, 2014 at 1:00 pm

    @Violet:

    I would kind of like to see a graph for prescribed medications on that chart. I bet it would start out lowest and wind up highest in comparison to everything else listed.
    @FlipYrWhig:
    I definitely think that cell phones are a factor in the drop in smoking. I noticed this morning while stopped at a crosswalk that, of the 8 or 9 people crossing the street, only one was smoking and 3 or 4 were glued to their phones. Drop in smoking in MN could be related to not being able to smoke indoors in any public building anymore. You have to go stand out in the snow to smoke.

  36. 36.

    Ty Styx

    September 17, 2014 at 1:02 pm

    @Bobby B.: Ahem.

    Speaking as a member of the Fallbrook (CA) Bong Team ’77, the pot in my day was NOT weak, and the mescaline was very good.

  37. 37.

    the Conster

    September 17, 2014 at 1:03 pm

    @beltane:

    I think they’re about $10/pack in Massachusetts, so yeah, plus, you can’t smoke anywhere anymore. Who wants to stand outside in the freezing cold to smoke, and also, since so few people smoke if you smoke, you stink and everyone knows you’re the smoker. Actually walking round downtown Boston I smell pot smoke more than cig smoke.

  38. 38.

    mr_gravity

    September 17, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    If I had had access to a universe of porn on a device that I could carry in my pocket I would probably still be drug-free.

  39. 39.

    mr_gravity

    September 17, 2014 at 1:10 pm

    Also too, would like to see a similar chart that included only college kids.

  40. 40.

    DanF

    September 17, 2014 at 1:13 pm

    I wonder if this is the result of kids no longer being allowed to play outside alone. You need some significant non-parental time to get high and recover well enough to not get caught. And adopting a smoking habit? Even if you could afford it, imagine finding five times a day when the parents aren’t around so you can pound another nail in the coffin.

  41. 41.

    Mike in NC

    September 17, 2014 at 1:16 pm

    @gbear:

    I definitely think that cell phones are a factor in the drop in smoking.

    This makes sense. From our tour buses in several European cities, we noted that there were a lot of young folks walking around texting on their smart phones. Hard to do that with a cigarette in your hand.

  42. 42.

    Mnemosyne

    September 17, 2014 at 1:22 pm

    @beltane:

    When I was in HS in the mid-1980s, a pack could be purchased with the spare change one found lying around the house.

    You were probably also able to sneak cigs from your parents’ packs that they left laying around. With fewer adults smoking, it’s harder for kids to pick up the habit by sneaking them from the parents. It’s what my brothers used to do, until they got hooked enough to need to start buying their own.

  43. 43.

    NCSteve

    September 17, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    Well of course not. When you and all your friends put off learning to drive until you’re 19 because it would cut into your texting time in your bedroom, when and where are you going to blaze a doobie or drink an illicit six pack?

    Kids today are so inundated and involved in technology that they just don’t know how to have a good time like my generation did. For which I suspect, their parents thank the Noodly One daily.

  44. 44.

    Botsplainer

    September 17, 2014 at 1:27 pm

    OT, but can anybody understand how this shitty Raw Story interface works anymore? Raw Story material is generally good (unless they’re slobbering over Russell Brand, John Oliver or Cenk Uyger while they’re “slamming” something/body.

    It’s so unusable on idevices and even the desktop that I’m about to abandon it, kinda like I did TPM for the iphone.

  45. 45.

    Jaybird

    September 17, 2014 at 1:29 pm

    @Belafon: This is close to my theory. What bands were being listened to at the height of drug use? If you’re listening to bands that talk about getting stoned, you may as well have peers that are getting stoned.

  46. 46.

    Botsplainer

    September 17, 2014 at 1:29 pm

    @NCSteve:

    Well of course not. When you and all your friends put off learning to drive until you’re 19 because it would cut into your texting time in your bedroom, when and where are you going to blaze a doobie or drink an illicit six pack?

    Kids today are so inundated and involved in technology that they just don’t know how to have a good time like my generation did. For which I suspect, their parents thank the Noodly One daily.

    My kids had little interest in learning to drive until they were closer to 18 because of this. The additional benefit is that there seem to be fewer stupid “racing, reckless” deaths and injuries in the local high schools.

  47. 47.

    Botsplainer

    September 17, 2014 at 1:32 pm

    @Bobby B.:

    Or how weak the pot was.

    Back in my day, we smoked ditch weed complete with seeds and stems, and we liked it, and wanted more without complaining!

  48. 48.

    srv

    September 17, 2014 at 1:39 pm

    @NCSteve: So we can get them off our lawn by taking down their cellular connection? Need to start a Boomer movement to unban short-range jammers.

    Kids I know can’t afford car insurance (this may be one thing Obama doesn’t get blamed for), by the time they get to 25+ for cheaper rates, they just don’t get one unless they absolutely need it.

    All the older teens smoke pot and drink. Maybe not monthly, but leave that keg unattended and they’ll handle it.

  49. 49.

    Botsplainer

    September 17, 2014 at 1:41 pm

    Also, back in my day, when we had unprotected premarital sex with other teens, we were grateful, and didn’t automatically expect more!

    Same thing with getting bums outside liquor stores to buy us booze. You never knew if the right bum would be there, and the supply would be cut off at any time, so we thanked him a lot.

    Now get the hell off my lawn. You’re standing too close to the begonias.

  50. 50.

    Tim C.

    September 17, 2014 at 1:45 pm

    Anecdotally I can verify this. I started teaching in 2000 and alcohol was a significant problem on campus. It’s nearly gone now. Like it’s been so long I cant remember the last time I saw an obviously drunk student. Pot is still and issue, but is about the same as it’s always been (Note this is a exurban lilly white district so they have plenty of access to both!)

  51. 51.

    SatanicPanic

    September 17, 2014 at 1:48 pm

    @Jaybird: I have a theory that selling drugs being a part of most rappers’ resume has had the positive effect of few (if any) famous rappers dying of overdoses. Maybe that has translated into teens doing less hard drugs, because they grew up listening to music that told them that drug consumer=chump.

  52. 52.

    SatanicPanic

    September 17, 2014 at 1:50 pm

    Or maybe kids today don’t spend as much time getting wasted because they’re worried about their future, unlike the coddled babies their parents were.

  53. 53.

    burnspbesq

    September 17, 2014 at 1:51 pm

    @Bobby B.:

    Or how weak the pot was.

    No kidding. I find it somewhat ironic that so many of the people who think Monsanto is the eebilest megacorp evah! because of its work with GMO food crop happily partake of the benefits of genetic engineering by dope growers.

  54. 54.

    cmorenc

    September 17, 2014 at 1:59 pm

    With respect to marijuana and other illicit mind-altering substances (or opiate painkillers), QUERY: to what extent do these statistics rely on youth giving honest answers to survey questions? It seems highly (yuk yuk) plausible to me that a significant percentage of kids would be justifiably wary how much they could trust any self-incriminatory responses to remain confidential and anonymous wrt parents, their school, or law enforcement agencies. That said, it’s probably accurate that the percentage of e.g. marijuana or opiate users is still a decided minority, but OTOH a statistical claim that marijuana use is limited to apx. 7% and alcohol use is limited apx. 12% sets off loud pings on my bullshit radar.

  55. 55.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 17, 2014 at 2:11 pm

    @SatanicPanic: So chronic worry means getting _less_ wasted? I didn’t think it worked that way.

  56. 56.

    lawguy

    September 17, 2014 at 2:13 pm

    Since, its self reporting is it possible that kids are simply saying what they figure the accepted cool position is on the use of drugs?

  57. 57.

    NCSteve

    September 17, 2014 at 2:14 pm

    @Botsplainer: I have dozens of cherished memories of my late adolescence and early adulthood that would terrify me if I was a parent. (As opposed to my Dad, whose memories from being that age involved jungles and mud and malaria and Japanese banzai charges, so that’s a step up, I guess.)

  58. 58.

    SatanicPanic

    September 17, 2014 at 2:15 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: Why not? If you’re worried about drugs ruining your slim chances of having a decent life you might not take them. Play video games as a stress reducer instead.

  59. 59.

    NCSteve

    September 17, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    @cmorenc: presumably, the paranoid lie factor is constant across generations so the delta is reliable even if the numbers aren’t.).

  60. 60.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 17, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    @SatanicPanic: Thousands of years of the concept of “drowning your sorrows” works in the opposite direction, but maybe things changed recently.

  61. 61.

    Trollhattan

    September 17, 2014 at 2:22 pm

    With a kid newly in middle school am trying to get attuned to what’s SOP amongst the youngs (besides sexting). There are tales aplenty of this and that house party, beach party, etc. Anecdotally, from parents of teens who I know, the drinking and drugging are far more rampant in the tony ‘burbs and redder than red foothill getaway towns. There, the kids have more time, more money and more supply. Ironic that the parents live there to “get away from that sort of thing.”

    With that said, when I find myself on light rail off commute hours, it frequently smells like an Amsterdam hookah bar in there. Not subtle either, it reeks

  62. 62.

    Tim C.

    September 17, 2014 at 2:24 pm

    @cmorenc: The numbers are probably low, but the trend is quite believable. It’s not like a different ratio of students would lie about it now as compared to 15 years ago. If anything, marijuana has become much more acceptable in the culture at large which could be a factor in why that trend is flatter than the others.

  63. 63.

    Tim C.

    September 17, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    @Trollhattan: This.

    The students who get busted for that here all have time, money, and a lack of supervision.

  64. 64.

    Just One More Canuck

    September 17, 2014 at 2:26 pm

    But where’s the line showing the increase in kids wearing hoodies?

  65. 65.

    srv

    September 17, 2014 at 2:28 pm

    Uncle Joe just talks like the kids

    Vice President Biden on Wednesday said he made “a poor choice of words” when using the term “shylocks” during a speech earlier this week.
    …
    Biden made the comment during a speech to the Legal Services Corp., while telling a story about his son, Beau, providing legal assistance to fellow soldiers after they returned from war.

    “People would come to him and talk about what was happening to them at home in terms of foreclosures, in terms of bad loans that were being — I mean, these shylocks who took advantage of these women and men while overseas,” Biden said.

  66. 66.

    SatanicPanic

    September 17, 2014 at 2:32 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: I wouldn’t call that drowning sorrows though. That’s what you do after you fail.

  67. 67.

    burnspbesq

    September 17, 2014 at 2:33 pm

    @srv:

    Seems like an apt choice of words to me (although I’m sure there will be allegations of anti-Semitism).

  68. 68.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    September 17, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    @NCSteve: This is one of the perennial question pollsters ask themselves. There is work done trying to estimate the number of false responses that you’ll get when you survey people. This particular study has been ongoing for decades and spends a lot of time trying to figure these things out.

    You can’t completely control for it and it adds to the uncertainty on any survey data on these questions. But this study is widely accepted as the best of its kind and is, at a minimum, a decent first approximation.

  69. 69.

    Trollhattan

    September 17, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    @Tim C.:
    While statistics like the OP are a comfort, we mostly learn from anecdotes and some of those can shock to our very core. My best buddy from college has two sons, good kids with devoted parents. The older got so deep into drugs (hiding it marvelously as the habits accumulated) that he went through the Hollywoodish intervention of backcountry addiction bootcamp (out of state in the high desert in the middle of winter) rather than a stint in juvenile jail. He’d progressed all the way to heroin by his junior year. A couple years later, the younger, “dependable” son got a new car and a week later, a felony DUI, right after graduating and turning eighteen. This summer he spend 45 days in county lockup and is now on probation. That’s a lot of fail for one family, who are left with a lot of questions and zero meaningful answers.

    And today I read this from my favorite photo blogger. I have no words.

  70. 70.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 17, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    @SatanicPanic: I guess I fail so regularly I’ve lost that distinction. :P

    @srv: Sounds like “Shylock” means “predatory moneylender” here, nothing whatsoever to do with Jews. At any rate, do people still associate money-lending with Jews?

  71. 71.

    JaneE

    September 17, 2014 at 2:44 pm

    The link between cigarette use and marijuana use has been known for at least 50 years. In the surveys from the 60’s, virtually all pot smokers had smoked tobacco first. Your first experience inhaling smoke is not usually pleasant. Tobacco provided an instant high to make you take the second puff. I would be interested to see the stats on gateway drugs 10 or 20 years from now, with pot edibles becoming more common.

  72. 72.

    Tim C.

    September 17, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    @Trollhattan: Yeah, it’s ugly. In fifteen years, I’ve had a two student’s die drug related deaths. One in a shooting another from wrecking their car while drunk. Many more close calls. Local media always has something drug related to talk about every day as well. So it’s completely understandable that the perception is out there.

    Edit: The students mentioned were well out of my class when the events happened, I just heard about it later.

  73. 73.

    SatanicPanic

    September 17, 2014 at 2:48 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: I am with you there

  74. 74.

    Mnemosyne

    September 17, 2014 at 2:49 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    That was my thought, too. It’s like when my 80-year-old grandmother said something about “ghosts” and it took me a while to figure out from the context that she was referring to black people. Who the hell still said “ghosts” in the 1980s?

  75. 75.

    NonyNony

    September 17, 2014 at 3:42 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I think it probably means that they’re choosing to while away their time with nekkid pictures and immersive video games instead.

    This.

    I mean seriously you old farts complaining that the kids don’t do enough drugs these days – think back to why you would sit around getting high when you were a stupid kid. Was it really because you read some Timothy Leary and wanted to have a mind blowing experience? Or was it because life sucked enough that you were looking for something to take the edge off?

    Video games give an adrenaline rush and let you tune out of reality for a while. Internet porn … well let’s just call what it does an adrenaline rush that lets you tune out of reality for a while too.

    TL;DR – Drug use is dropping off for the same reason network TV ratings are dropping off. Too much competition from other entertainment sources these days.

  76. 76.

    catclub

    September 17, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Who the hell still said “ghosts” in the 1980s?

    It is telling too much to know that the correct term is spooks.

  77. 77.

    catclub

    September 17, 2014 at 3:48 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    do people still associate money-lending with Jews?

    They do now. Thanks, Obama.

  78. 78.

    Mnemosyne

    September 17, 2014 at 3:53 pm

    @catclub:

    Ah, but saying “spooks” wasn’t refined. So some people used “ghosts” as the more polite euphemism. I so wish I were kidding.

  79. 79.

    Jebediah, RBG

    September 17, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    @burnspbesq:

    No kidding. I find it somewhat ironic that so many of the people who think Monsanto is the eebilest megacorp evah! because of its work with GMO food crop happily partake of the benefits of genetic engineering by dope growers.

    I thought GMO refers to artificially altering a plant’s genes in a lab – I wasn’t aware any dope growers were doing that. I know they go to great pains to optimize the growing conditions (carefully timed lights, precise hydroponic solutions, etc.) and are constantly cross-breeding different strains together – but I didn’t know that qualified as GMO.

  80. 80.

    Amir Khalid

    September 17, 2014 at 4:01 pm

    @burnspbesq:
    I do take issue with calling Shylock the “villain” of The Merchant of Venice, though. That is itself an anti-Semitic reading of the play. Shakespeare never paints him as a villain. He never wanted that pound of Antonio’s flesh, anyway; he was lashing out after suffering years of Christian bigotry and then seeing his daughter run off with a Christian layabout.

  81. 81.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 17, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    @Mnemosyne: That’s almost somewhere between metonymy and Cockney rhyming slang, a weird verbal substitution. Would be about like sneering about how all these “shovels” are moving into the neighborhood.

  82. 82.

    burnspbesq

    September 17, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    Who the hell still said “ghosts” in the 1980s?

    People in Paterson, New Jersey. Eastside High’s sports teams were called the Ghosts. Still are, although the mascot looks like something from “Ghostbusters.”

    And yeah, Eastside has had an overwhelmingly African-American student body since at least the 1950s until recently. Now it’s about 55-43-2 Latino/A-A/White.

    Interestingly, Eastside is Alan Ginsburg’s alma mater.

  83. 83.

    tom

    September 17, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    My guess is instead of a “just say no” approach, there’s been a big trend to actually inform them about the dangers of alcohol, drug and tobacco use, particularly while their brain and bodies are still developing. Also, everyone’s broke and can’t afford it.

  84. 84.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 17, 2014 at 4:06 pm

    @Amir Khalid: Eh, he’s pretty villainous. He sharpens his knife when he thinks he’s won in court and that he’ll get the satisfaction of his bond. It’s revenge, yes, but the play finds fault with the idea of revenge. I think the play presumes that the audience is going to find it hi-LARIOUS that the literal-minded, merciless Jew got punked and lost everything.

  85. 85.

    Arclite

    September 17, 2014 at 4:14 pm

    One main reason for lower substance abuse among the younger set seems obvious: video games. Game usage has exploded while drug use has fallen off. It’s a drug-free way to escape reality for a while.

  86. 86.

    Mnemosyne

    September 17, 2014 at 4:17 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Yes, but it has a happy ending from the POV of Shakespeare’s audience: Shylock is forced to convert to Christianity, so he won’t go to Hell. Yay! Everyone wins!
    /sarcasm, in case it wasn’t obvious

  87. 87.

    catclub

    September 17, 2014 at 4:22 pm

    @FlipYrWhig: There are always unrealistic bits in Shakespeare. A real Shylock, who was consistent with his previous character development, if told that if he takes one drop more than a pound of flesh, his life, too, would be forfeit: Would shrug, sharpen his knife, and go for it. Instead, he collapses, loses everything, and is forced to convert. It is a comedy, after all.

    The quality of mercy speech still gets me.

  88. 88.

    Roger Moore

    September 17, 2014 at 4:26 pm

    @NCSteve:

    When you and all your friends put off learning to drive until you’re 19 because it would cut into your texting time in your bedroom

    That’s not why kids are putting off getting their licenses. They’re putting it off because states have tightened the rules on minors’ driving so much that it’s more or less pointless. They’re not allowed to drive with another minor in their car unless one of their parents is along, which severely undermines the major point of having a license. It also makes me wonder if that’s a partial explanation for the drop in teenage pregnancy, given the old-time popularity of cars as a place to have sex.

  89. 89.

    Trollhattan

    September 17, 2014 at 4:30 pm

    @Roger Moore:
    Here’s an actual thing: parents turning their teen drivers into designated drivers for parents’ nights out. I (mostly) approve. (Yes, they’re paid for their troubles.)

  90. 90.

    Amir Khalid

    September 17, 2014 at 4:31 pm

    @catclub:
    Given that Shylock is the title character of the play (or at least he was, in the pre-Shakespeare version of the story) I’ve always considered it a tragedy.
    ETA: Despite the tacked-on, happy romantic epilogue.

  91. 91.

    Roger Moore

    September 17, 2014 at 4:32 pm

    @burnspbesq:
    I think it’s the antisemitism that’s the worry. There are plenty of other words you can use for a usurer that don’t play to a racial stereotype.

  92. 92.

    Amir Khalid

    September 17, 2014 at 4:36 pm

    @Roger Moore:
    I think the people running those businesses deserve to be called loan sharks, but using that term might have put Biden at risk of slandering what are, after all, licenced businesses.

  93. 93.

    Mnemosyne

    September 17, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    @Trollhattan:

    That works great until your parents have a fight before the party and you then have to listen to your dad’s drunken musing about whether or not they should get divorced for the whole drive home.

    Ask me how I know.

  94. 94.

    Just One More Canuck

    September 17, 2014 at 5:23 pm

    @Mnemosyne: That sounds like a grim story. What I would like to know though is how you’re feeling?

    And while I’m here, Jacy too.

  95. 95.

    WaterGirl

    September 17, 2014 at 5:48 pm

    @Just One More Canuck: Jacy is in the Open Thread with an update.

  96. 96.

    another Holocene human

    September 17, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    @Roger Moore: You may think so but research by car companies shows that the kids today want to stay connected on devices and say they want good transit so they don’t have to stop texting their friends. Money, as in cars went up sharply in price even used, and gas is higher, are also issues. The car co’s were wailing about this about two years back.

  97. 97.

    another Holocene human

    September 17, 2014 at 5:58 pm

    @Roger Moore: Again, nope on the teen pregnancy rates. Plenty of good research on that came out recently. Please avail yourself instead of spreading just so stories. Thought you were smarter than this.

  98. 98.

    Violet

    September 17, 2014 at 6:14 pm

    @another Holocene human: Maybe that’ll bring on the Google self-driving cars sooner, then. I for one cannot wait until they’re available. I have very little interest in actually driving a car. I just want to get from point A to point B.

  99. 99.

    Just One More Canuck

    September 17, 2014 at 6:23 pm

    @WaterGirl: thanks

  100. 100.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 17, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    @Amir Khalid: The protagonist is Antonio, though, the “good” merchant. And it’s a comedy in genre terms because it has a happy ending. (And the end isn’t really “tacked on,” because the courtship of Portia is why her beau needs to round up borrowed money in the first place.)

    It might be a tragedy from Shylock’s perspective–he starts out with everything and loses it all, from his daughter to his ducats to his property, seized by the government–but IMHO we’re not supposed to care that much about Shylock’s perspective, any more than we’re supposed to care about Bill Pullman’s perspective in a 1990s romantic comedy. It’s cosmically just for losers to lose.

  101. 101.

    Amir Khalid

    September 17, 2014 at 7:35 pm

    I concede that Antonio is the nominal title character, not Shylock as I stated. But Shylock is by far the more prominent character. For a protagonist, Antonio is rather passive; he approaches Shylock and negotiates the loan so that Bassanio can woo Portia, and that’s pretty much it for his active contribution to the story.

    And I think the play is more sympathetic to Shylock than you do; I do indeed think of it as Shylock’s tragedy. He gets one of the Bard’s best speeches, “Hath not a Jew eyes?”, in which he argues forcefully for the humanity of Jewish people and their right to avenge wrong done to them by Christians. I guess Shylock was promoted as the villain for box-office reasons, but for the life of me I cannot see him as the bad guy in the story.

  102. 102.

    Mnemosyne

    September 17, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    @Just One More Canuck:

    I’m just fine, thank you! As everyone told me, the nurse said, “Now I’m going to push through the sedative” and I woke up in the recovery room. The prep was not the most fun I’ve had but, really, it wasn’t that bad. Mostly tedious. Got a clean bill of health colon-wise and they’re going to test to see if my acid reflux is being caused by H. pylori or if there’s another cause.

    Jacy is in the open thread above and has a great vomiting story. It’s kind of turning into the vomiting thread up there, for those who are interested.

  103. 103.

    Mnemosyne

    September 17, 2014 at 7:59 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:
    @Amir Khalid:

    There are quite a few scholars who seem to think that the “Shylock converts” happy ending was included because audiences ended up unexpectedly sympathetic towards the character and demanded that he should at least not be condemned to an eternity in Hell since he did have some right on his side.

    ETA: Weird as it seems to us today, forcing Shylock to convert to Christianity was considered by audiences of the day to be a happy ending for that character, so it’s a comedy.

  104. 104.

    Cain

    September 17, 2014 at 9:41 pm

    @Violet:

    Seem to remember reading somewhere that Kids These Days are choosing to get fewer tattoos because Yuck That’s What Mom and Dad Have and Why Do That To Your Body? Not sure if that’s true, but remember reading something along those lines.

    It’s kind of hard to rebel when your parents already did it all. Every time, you announce you’re going to do something, your mom or dad is like “oh MAN, I remember when I did that. Yo bra, (they also steal todays langauge) don’t do it, I was twisted for days!”

  105. 105.

    Cain

    September 17, 2014 at 9:49 pm

    @Botsplainer:

    My kids had little interest in learning to drive until they were closer to 18 because of this. The additional benefit is that there seem to be fewer stupid “racing, reckless” deaths and injuries in the local high schools.

    It’s also expensive to get gas. So basically, life is expensive and these kids don’t have the money after spending $$$ on their cell phone plans.

  106. 106.

    FlipYrWhig

    September 17, 2014 at 10:59 pm

    @Mnemosyne: @Amir Khalid: We’re told that he’s promised to convert. But that conversion doesn’t happen on stage. Shylock slinks away defeated. But it isn’t until the 19th century that it occurs to any actors that it might be possible to play Shylock with respect and sensitivity, instead of as an amalgamation of creepy stereotypes with occasional flickers of humanity. Even the “Hath not a Jew eyes?” speech ends up being a rationalization for revenge, which the play very heavy-handedly says is quite wrong, because you should have mercy instead, like Christians and Christ understand, but Jews take everything literally and want eye-for-an-eye retaliatory score-settling. At any rate, I think it’s possible to play the material as a story about a guy who’s been humiliated his whole life and whose pleas for justice and equality are resonant and who gets rooked by a rigged and arbitrary legal system. Brecht would probably write it that way. Sad to say, Shakespeare didn’t.

    Also, Launcelot Gobbo is one of the worst characters ever created.

  107. 107.

    Mnemosyne

    September 17, 2014 at 11:36 pm

    @FlipYrWhig:

    One of my favorite renditions of that speech.

    Yes, that’s Jack Benny in a Nazi officer’s uniform. You kind of have to see it.

  108. 108.

    Chris T.

    September 18, 2014 at 2:02 am

    @Roger Moore: Actually, it’s all Obama’s fault, as usual.

    (don’t tell me I need a /snark here)

  109. 109.

    Death Panel Truck

    September 18, 2014 at 2:24 am

    @beltane: When I was in the eighth grade in 1976, a dollar would get you two packs of Marlboros with two cents change.

  110. 110.

    John N

    September 18, 2014 at 2:06 pm

    Age 12 to 17? What 12 year olds are doing and what 17 year olds are doing are VASTLY different, it doesn’t make sense to lump them together. Unless you want to make it look like fewer 17 year olds are using drugs.

    I remember taking surveys like this. I am pretty sure that a significant percentage of the responses are not done seriously. We are talking about 12 to 17 year olds here.

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