How bad are the Republicans trying to find a suitable 2016 contender? This bad:
With Washington’s reputation lurking in used-car-salesmen territory, there will be a wide lane in the 2016 presidential campaign for governors with records built outside the national capital.
On the Republican side, the list of potential contenders already includes New Jersey’s Chris Christie, Wisconsin’s Scott Walker, Louisiana’s Bobby Jindal, Texas’ Rick Perry and a prominent former governor, Florida’s Jeb Bush.
Now, grass-roots conservatives are seeking to add another governor’s name to that list of 2016 possibilities: Indiana’s Mike Pence.
The Hoosier chief executive isn’t as well known nationally, and some will question whether his record is too far right to be a plausible general-election candidate. But he’s generating a small groundswell, particularly among GOP social-policy activists, some of whom think Mr. Pence hits the sweet spot for 2016.
He is reliably conservative on fiscal and social policies, and rose to a position of power in Washington, where he led the conservative Republican Study Group in the House of Representatives and helped found the tea-party caucus. Yet he deployed a more soothing style and wasn’t as polarizing as some House conservatives. He once hosted his own radio talk show and referred to himself “Rush Limbaugh on decaf.”
Now, as a heartland governor for the last two years, he has a record outside of Washington, in a state that’s surging economically.
This will end poorly:
There are very few members of congress with whom I’ve ever had the opportunity to discuss a substantive matter of public policy. But as it happens, one of them — the one with whom I’ve had the second-longest exchange — is Mike Pence (R-IN) who I’ve seen on television today repeatedly discussing the Republican Study Group’s “plan” for the financial crisis. And I can tell you this about Mike Pence: he has no idea what he’s talking about. The man is a fool, who deserves to be laughed at. He’s almost stupid enough to work in cable television.
Specifically, way back in 2005 I got to talk to him about Social Security privatization at a Heritage Foundation event. Obviously, I have my perspective on this and conservatives have theirs. But Pence had a truly peculiar idea. His idea was that the government ought to reassure people about the risks of losses under a privatization plan by having the government guarantee a minimum annuity level pegged to what’s promised under current law. This plan would, according to Pence, save money relative to current law because most people’s stock/bond portfolio would outperform the level needed to provide such an annuity, so the government would only need to kick in for a minority of people. I said I thought this would create a moral hazard problem for bad investors. He had no idea what I was talking about. Seemed unfamiliar with the term. Then I tried to explain it to him, I said that if the government guaranteed to bail you out in case of losses, then investors would make riskier investments and the number of people who need bailing out would rise. He just flat-out denied this, said the presence or absence of a guaranteed bailout would have no impact on investor behavior. He seemed unaware that some portfolios are riskier than others, or that higher average rates of return are associated with greater risk taking. He didn’t know anything at all, in short, about investing, financial markets, or, seemingly, the basic terms of public policy. And yet there he was speaking on the topic at Heritage. He’s a total fraud.
The man is dumb as a sack of hammers.
Nutella
That’s a feature, not a bug.
Pogonip
Congratulations, President Pence.
CASLondon
Indiana used up its minimum standard quality politician allotment with Richard Lugar. I went to Bloomington and worked for one of the others, a not to be named dumbass, for a while. Man, they breed em so dumb there that Dan Quayle was a national laughingstock and not even the worst on offer. Did love that state anyway.
On another topic, does anyone think that since TBogg went real name and Raw Story, we’ll ever get the truly awesome triple combo of Basset Hounds, Friday Top Ten playlists, and Shakira Ass GIFs ever again? I think he went too mainstream these days.
shortstop
He really is unbelievably stupid. I’d like to see a one-on-one debate between him and Perry. It’d be like the King Kong vs. Godzilla of dumbassery.
jl
I remember reading the Yglesias analysis of Pence. I wondered if it might be the case of the adulterer saying to his wife ‘there’ s no woman in the bed, just look!’ as the mistress calmly gets out of bed and dresses herself and leaves. But I guess Pence would be trying that tactic all the time on everything, so not very plausible. He probably does not know what he is talking about.
Violet
Remember in 2011/12 when the Republicans had a flavor of the week candidate that topped the latest primary poll? Is this just the same thing starting early?
Speaking of that election, I only recently learned that George Will’s wife worked on Rick Perry’s 2012 campaign and helped with debate prep! Seriously! Who would admit to helping Rick Perry prepare for those debates? Shouldn’t that be a career ender?
MattF
I’m surprised to see Yglesias just come out and say Pence is a moron. Conclusion: Pence really is a moron.
Marc
I thought of that same Yglesias piece as soon as I saw the WSJ was fluffing Pence. John, I would love to know what your search terms were and how high up Yglesias was in the results.
Because Google’s autocomplete very kindly helped me type “Mike Pence dumbest man in Washington”… and Yglesias didn’t even make the first screen.
shelley
Hey, how’s Steve doing today? Has he become his regular, vocalizing self?
schrodinger's cat
2016 is 2 years away, right now it is time to worry about the mid-terms.
ETA: But I do agree that dumb Pence is dumb.
John Cole +0
@shelley: I have some awesome pictures I am goign to share a little later.
leeleeFL
IIRC, Pence is the yutz in the Iraqi market with Grandpa Walnuts. He said something about it being just like a Farmer’s Market in Indiana. Case rested. John, that description is mean to hammers! Glad Steve came home, the little shit.
Tinare
Noooooo, hammers are much smarter.
Violet
@John Cole +0: Oh good! Can’t wait! I hope he’s been behaving himself today.
schrodinger's cat
@John Cole +0: You should also post some Tunch photos too. I saw Shiro Neko on ICHC today and he reminded me of Tunch!
This is the photo in question.
guachi
In some instances, what Yglesias is talking about is a good thing. One hoped for benefit of Obamacare is that a guarantee of health insurance availability will encourage more entrepreneurship and risk taking. This is, of course, known to all of you BJers.
Schlemazel
Man I love his idea for social security!! It would be like the ka-see-no telling me that no matter how I bet they would cover my losses! I’p put everything on red 7 every spin. If it pays off I’m rich, if it fails President Pence covers for me. WOO-HOO, where do I sign up?
Botsplainer
“Surge” is not a word I’d use about the economy of Indiana, unless applying it to the feel of greasy diarrhea exiting the body while in the process of suffering a crampy shart.
My perception (I’m looking across the Ohio River at Southern Indiana right now) is that outside the counties that border Louisville and the insurance scam wingnut exurbanity that is Indianoplace, the place is generally a fucking basket case unless you already have amassed wealth.
Botsplainer
Did I mention that Pence has the personality of day-old bread?
Calouste
Pence? Wasn’t that the guy who is about 5’4 in heels and looks like a 60 year old teenager? And remarried his wife after she divorced him and married and divorced someone else? Or am I confusing my fail-upward Republicans?
Schlemazel
@Botsplainer:
Come on guys, first you attack hammers and now poor innocent bread. Next you’ll be impuning mud and rabid squirrels by comparing Pence favorably to them.
@Calouste:
Yuppers, thats their man! I’d go on an all marinara diet if the blessed FSM were kind enough to give the Dems this favor in 2 years. First we have to weather this fall though.
SamR
@leeleeFL: I was wondering if anyone else would mention the Baghdad market example, but keep in mind McCain and Pence walked around in flak jackets, and then Pence made his “just like a market in Indiana” remark. Apparently Indiana has violent insurgent activity that requires the wearing of a flak jacket.
MattF
And re 2016, there’s an amusing WaPo article about the four Texas Republicans who want to run in 2016 and who Pence would have to beat:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/09/21/even-texas-may-not-be-big-enough-for-four-favorite-sons-in-2016/
I don’t like either Cruz or Pence, but Cruz would slice Pence up into teeny-tiny shreds and then stomp on them.
Calouste
@Botsplainer: There are two uses for day-old bread: toast or breadcrumbs. Which come to think of it, has an uncanny similarity to the chances of Mike Pence’s presidential campaign.
Violet
@Calouste: I think you might be thinking of Mitch Daniels.
Citizen_X
Yeebus. If we’re considering Pence and Rick Perry, why not just throw in Louis Gohmert and have an idiot trinity competing for the nomination?
Violet
@Calouste: What, no love for bread pudding?
Amir Khalid
It’s only to be expected that there will be presidential candidates for 2016 from the Republican party’s idiot tendency. But what I want to know is, will anyone turn up to run who has real comedic talent, like Herman Cain?The show won’t be any good without one of those.
MattF
@Amir Khalid: I don’t want to pry, but is there some reason your nym is linked to ‘fungaltoenail’?
Gex
@SamR: well, conceal carry, open carry, stand your ground, and trigger happy cops suggest that if they were wrong about it being like a farmers market here, they will be right about it in due time.
leeleeFL
@SamR: yupper. I thought at the time that things must have gotten very bad in Indiana! LOL
Amir Khalid
@MattF:
I see it too. FYWP must be pranking me for some reason.
WereBear
None of them know anything, because the ideas they espouse have no basis in logic or reality. It’s bullshit, pure and simple.
Why would they want anyone who knows or understands that? Isn’t it better for them to hire idiots who believe their own junk-speak?
Ruckus
And can and will do remarkably more damage than said sack of hammers.
Calouste
@Violet:
Yes, that’s the man. I suppose his name will show up some time over the next year as well.
shelley
I know, any sane person would think, ‘2016? Why the hell is anybody agitating about that alreay?’ But if you venture into the blog-o-sphere, you’re forced to contemplate it.
So, the GOP’s got time to come up with..somebody viable. Cause right now? I mean, honestly. Romney as a three-time loser? Jeb Bush. Jindal. Cruz? And of course, every Fox pundit’s wet dream, Palin.
Patricia Kayden
“The man is dumb as a sack of hammers.”
The perfect Republican candidate then.
I, for one, look forward to President Hilary Clinton.
jl
@shelley: It is a topic upon which nothing much to do at this point but make shit up, on both Dem and GOP side. So perfect topic to spend lots of time on in the bowels our failed corporate media experiment. And certain blogs (but not prudish mommy / garden / cooking blogs like this one).
Villago Delenda Est
Not a problem for the “social conservatives”. As long as Pence wants to punish the sluts and ship the faggots off to “resettlement camps”, he’s their guy.
And not nearly as useful.
Villago Delenda Est
@Botsplainer:
OK, I’ll bite (so to speak): Is that more or less charismatic than Grey Davis?
Darkrose
I saw this post and thought, “Geez. Pence is only hitting .220 for September, but damn, fail parade is kind of harsh!”
Hunter Pence would probably make a better president than this clown. Plus he’d be the first non-human president!
Mike in NC
USA Today calls these seven Republican governors “in jeopardy”: Scott (FL), Deal (GA), Brownback (KS), LePage (ME), Snyder (MI), Corbett (PA), and Walker (WI). Get your popcorn.
Comrade Dread
Yeah, not really an issue for a GOP nominee. Putting a dolt or an old man in the early stages of Alzheimer’s lets the powers that fund the GOP have more influence over the country. An intellectual man cannot be trusted. He might start thinking about consequences and the ramifications of what he’s doing and then the profit margins would be threatened.
All a GOP presidential candidate has to be is affable, able to spit out talking points and downhome-isms for conservative policy ideas, and preferably lacking a long record of total fuck-ups.
Schlemazel
@Patricia Kayden:
Well, if the GOP candidate is the smartest, kindest, most compassionate person, most capable in the entire party then . . . yeah, I still wouldn’t vote for them because Hill would still be a better choice.
KG
and this is why I remain steadfast in my belief that the GOP will nominate Mike Huckabee. Although, if I were a betting man (oh, wait, I am), I might hedge that bet with a Mitt “Told Ya So” Romney teaser.
WereBear
@Mike in NC: Nothing I like better than Republican Jeopardy!
I’ll have “Broken Hammers” for $500, Alex.
Comrade Dread
@Patricia Kayden:
I don’t. But if she is the nominee, she’ll be far better than any of the GOP alternatives.
Bobby Thomson
@Nutella: yep. Reagan sold balancing the budget by cutting taxes. People are stupid.
burnspbesq
@CASLondon:
Raw Story has an all-star lineup of former bloggers. In case you have forgotten or were never aware. David Ferguson = TRex.
MomSense
Isn’t Pence one of the fools who thought he asked the President a real gotcha question when they asked him to speak to the Republican Congressional Retreat in 2009? It didn’t turn out well for the Republicans.
ETA May have been 2010.
KG
@Villago Delenda Est: i don’t know, does a wet blanket have more or less charisma than day old bread? i feel like we need power rankings on this
Turgidson
@WereBear:
I think their perfect candidate is someone who is a stone cold expert at pretending to believe the bullshit the party demands, but doesn’t actually believe it and only throws red meat around to get elected and then manipulate the base as needed once in power.
Bush pulled this off in some respects such as using gay-hating as a campaign tool while privately probably not really giving a shit about it either way.
But, as driftglass might say, Bush was such a massive fuckup overall that his “base” decided to furiously strip off the Bush/Cheney stickers on their cars and put on some tricorn hats with teabags on them and start screeching about freedumb and sockulism while pretending never to have heard of that Bush guy.
burnspbesq
@KG:
Power rankings:
1. Stale beer
2. Warm, flat Tab.
3. Cold anchovy pizza.
4. Wet blanket.
5. Day-old bread.
6. Rick Santorum
7. Mike Pence.
jibeaux
I can just about guarantee that when Yglesias said “moral hazard”, Pence wondered why the topic had switched to sluts.
MomSense
@burnspbesq:
HA!!
WereBear
@Turgidson: I think it’s no coincidence that so much of the Republican diehards are claim religious fervor because everything they hear is taken on faith alone; there’s no logic or science or sense to it at all.
They want someone who tells them what they want to hear. And that they are right to think that way. The overlap of all kinds of fundamentalism.
ThresherK
@Botsplainer: Well, next to “Glass of skim milk” Mitch Daniels, a lot of people can look exciting.
jibeaux
Good grief. Jeb Bush is the best candidate on that list.
Botsplainer
@burnspbesq:
Where is Pepsi in that list?
As everyone knows, it is made from last week’s open Coke that sees an extra tablespoon of sugar added, set out in the sun for 8 hours on a hot Atlanta day, then re bottled as Pepsi.
Capri
Well, Pence is certainly positioning himself to be a presidential candidate, to the detriment of the state. He’s sitting on a large surplus because he hasn’t funded foster care for special needs kids and domestic violence programs. This was stuff that was approved, but the funds not released.
He is as baffled as anybody why the tax cuts and other deals that benefit the rich haven’t resulted in a booming economy, and why the infant mortality rate is increasing at an alarming rate. He is concerned about that, but not enough to embrace Obamacare. He negotiated the expansion of a Indiana program that is a worse deal for citizens, but allows him to keep his conservative bona fides.
MomSense
@Botsplainer:
Or limp hand shakes–so gross.
WereBear
@jibeaux: Their national bench is as shallow as their thoughts.
max
@Violet: Remember in 2011/12 when the Republicans had a flavor of the week candidate that topped the latest primary poll? Is this just the same thing starting early?
Got it in one!
‘Welcome to GOP 97 Flavors of Conservative!’
‘Got any really awesome new flavors of ice cream?’
‘Here! Try some Old Turpentine Flavor!’
‘Yuck! Jeez, got anything else!’
‘Oh, sure! Try some Dog-Chewed Moldy Shoe!’
‘Jesus, that tastes like licking the bottom of the fridge! BLEH!’
‘Who comes up with this stuff?!’
‘Fine fine. Obviously some of our flavors are only for refined palates. Try Dog Shit From the Bottom of a Koch Brothers Shoe!’
‘NO! Nothing flavored like dog shit.’
‘Are you some kind of communist? Fine. Try Finger of Decomposing Iraqi flavors!’
‘Are you trying to sell cannibal ice cream?!’
‘Iraqis aren’t human, how can it be cannibalism?’
‘That’s it, I’m leaving!’
‘You can’t leave! The police will arrest if you leave?’
‘What?!’
‘We were having trouble keeping customers.’
‘I don’t care, anything is better than this.’
‘Jeez. There’s just no pleasing some people. Maybe I should’ve shot him.’ <— fondles gun
max
['Real America.']
Citizen_X
@Comrade Dread:
See “Reagan, Ronald.”
WereBear
@Citizen_X: It’s no wonder their favorite figurehead was an actor, not a politician.
I regard it as a tribute to the thespian profession that Republicans have been unable to perform the same magic trick since.
burnspbesq
@Botsplainer:
Moving up fast. Pepsi, 4chan, and Roger Goodell Apologists may make next week’s power rankings.
gratuitous
This is a recurring problem for just about every Republican proposal. As soon as you scratch the talking point patina off it, they really have no idea what they’re talking about. Inexperienced people investing in the stock market and not beating the pros? What can you possibly be talking about? Everyone will get rich, and that right quick, by investing in the market! Nobody will make a bad investment, nobody will get flim-flammed, nobody will take a flyer on a high risk investment with money they can’t afford to lose.
And if someone does lose everything? Pence thinks they’ll get bailed out by the thoughtful and generous policies Republicans are known for, helping to cushion the blow of bad luck, or even poor personal choices. Yeah, we’re long beyond the border of Territory Whatthefuck.
Bobby Thomson
Who are the real winners under the Pence some the richer plan? Brokers who get fees from trades that shouldn’t have been made. Inept managers kept afloat by people be++ing with other people’s money. One could envision coordinated action to subsidize kickbacks by investing in companies that were fronts for campaign contributions, but knowing how Republican activists work, those are likely to be grifts in practice.
Just One More Canuck
@Botsplainer: what have you got against crampy sharts?
Turgidson
@max:
Nice. But you left off the “tire rims and anthrax” flavor.
Just One More Canuck
@Calouste: the last thing I need is to have an image of all of these idiots wearing cfm heels
Citizen_X
Re: the Newsmax headline, “Obama airstrikes fail to shake ISIS:” are they rooting for ISIS now?
Quaker in a Basement
Claw or ball-peen?
raven
Jesus, Rev Al just showed McAllister’s campaign ad with him and his wife droning on about “Christian” this and that.
raven
@Quaker in a Basement: Silver
El Caganer
@Violet: Wasn’t Mitch the one who was supposed to be the financial genius?
Violet
@jibeaux:
That’s what the Bush family is banking on. W may have soiled the family name but even despite that he’s still the best the Republicans have. Or so they’re hoping.
Anoniminous
@KG:
I agree Huckabee is their best campaigner. He’s got the southern folksy-charming snake oil selling routine down pat. But he has a good gig at Fox that he would have to give up. Nobody in the GOP is pushing him. And it’s been seven years since he was on the campaign trail. And he released a Jesus-finding cop-killing psycho from the loony bin.
I don’t see it.
Violet
@El Caganer: Couldn’t say. Just remembered he was short and married his wife twice or something like that.
WereBear
@Anoniminous: Also, I believe the rumors that Huckabee is a gastric bypass patient, and the required regimen does not fit with campaigning in any way; not to mention the health pressures running for President imposes.
I skimmed Huckabee’s book about weight loss, and it was filled with lies. No way he lost the weight the way he described.
And… there’s the dog-torturing son. It makes Romney’s dog-on-car story seem absolutely heart-warming.
Anne Laurie
If Doghouse Riley weren’t already dead, “Mike Pence”, Presidential Hopeful” would probably kill him:
Roger Moore
@Violet:
Why would it be career ending? The greatest debate coach in history can’t help somebody who can’t remember his own talking points during the debate. The only thing being Rick Perry’s debate coach shows is a willingness to take on impossible odds.
Violet
@WereBear:
Really? Like what. I figured he had gastric bypass. He’s also gained some weight back.
Violet
@Roger Moore: I can’t believe she’d admit to being his debate coach. Just say you “worked with the campaign”. If that’s what her debate coaching does, I don’t see why anyone would hire her.
Anne Laurie
@MomSense:
If you wanna google it, I do believe you’re thinking of the GOP’s “power team” (CPAC?) meeting where President Obama came to publicly negotiate terms of the still-under-advisement Affordable Care Act.
Mike Pence was the chosen mouthpiece, and the President won the “argument” so handily, there was speculation afterwards that Pence’s GOP rivals had shoved him out there on purpose to get him publicly humiliated. But that was a good 4 or 5 years ago, and GOP voters’ memories aren’t supposed to go back that far (except, of course, when it comes to cherishing every grievance against the hated Democrats).
Luther Siler
Oh please.
Please please please please PLEASE let Mike Pence run for President.
PLEASE let the man who got fewer votes than the goddamned Democratic Superintendent of Schools try and run for President. It would be the most hilarious thing since Ross Perot. Please.
burnspbesq
There’s a major shakeup coming in the power rankings.
Bob Ley with Andrew Sullivan’s beard??? Oh my goodness.
Anoniminous
@WereBear:
Of course it was.
I didn’t know he had a gastric bypass. That puts paid either to his running or his life if he decides to run.
Violet
@Anoniminous: He doesn’t admit to having one but the rumors are there. He lost weight really fast.
CONGRATULATIONS!
I’ve seen a Ted Cruz For President and a Ben Carson For President sticker in the last two weeks. They are desperate. And insane.
Roger Moore
@burnspbesq:
No way. I’ll take day old bread over any of those other items. As mentioned above, day old bread is great for toast, bread pudding, or gazpacho, all of which I actually enjoy.
WaterGirl
@Anoniminous:
I don’t understand what that means. Did autocorrect strike again or is that an idiom I have never heard of?
WereBear
@Violet: A big deal for every emotional eater (which Huckabee claimed to be and was about the only thing that rang true) is how to handle the comfort foods that are so fattening and so prone to overconsumption.
Huckabee claimed he learned to like carrot sticks instead.
Yeah, right.
It’s a struggle to eat a different way; no matter your issues and your specific difficulties, there’s a lot of upheaval associated with it, and it leaves past dents in your self-esteem. Every honest weight loss memoir covers these difficulties.
Huckabee’s did not. One could say that a politician would have trouble being self-revealing, and okay… but his book read like he’d cut & pasted from every book and blog about how weight loss is “supposed to” work, and never does.
Jason
Pence is also the guy that went to Baghdad in 2007 and found it like any open-air market in Indiana in summertime. When I lived in Indiana I never wore a flak jacket or had the 82nd airborne patrolling while I shopped for apple butter.
WereBear
@Violet: He not only lost it very fast; he took a mysterious leave of absence right before. he lost the weight in the way a gastric bypass patient loses it, leaving their face full of loose skin.
Violet
@WereBear: Ha! I’m sure he “learned” to like carrot sticks instead of cake. You can do that for the short term but like with anything, unless you address the underlying issues it isn’t going to work long term. He’s gained quite a bit of weight back. I wonder if he got the gastric sleeve–can’t that be adjusted if necessary?
cckids
@El Caganer:
Well, he was W’s budget director, so I’m going to say a big, fat NO.
WaterGirl
@WereBear:
I would google that, but I don’t want to get a bunch of spam about weight loss or bypass.
There’s something about getting a bypass that makes you unable to campaign? I know almost nothing about bypass or a regimen. And someone else seemed to think you might die if you had it and had a stressful campaign?
rikyrah
I remember the first time I read this piece…I LOL then…and now…
it never gets old.
feebog
Honestly, Pence has just as good a chance at the nomination as any of the other clowns trying to claw their way up the scratching pole. I put him in the “failed Republican Governors likely to be indicted, convicted, or caught naked howling at the moon” category. In other words, second tier, but with a bullet.
Roger Moore
@Citizen_X:
They aren’t rooting for ISIS; they’re rooting against anything Obama does.
WereBear
@WaterGirl: Having a bypass means you eat meals that are one ounce big: the size of a pair of dice. If you eat more, or eat things that are difficult to digest, or it’s just the wrong phase of the moon, you get nauseated and have to lie down or throw up or both.
This is both distinctive and noticeable. One also can’t just “not eat” to avoid such a giveaway because blood sugar regulation tends to be shaky and needs constant shoring up.
Al Roker, who had his surgery years ago and is considered a success because he kept it off, routinely carries a change of clothing with him because he can unexpectedly crap his pants. (It happened at the White House, I think it was last year.) And while no one talks about it, it can make one prone to eye-watering, eat-holes-in-sheetrock kind of gas.
Constant proximity to a bathroom is a must.
Health-wise, even with constant vitamin supplementation, there can be problems getting enough of the right things to the right places. As time goes on, more and more malnutrition issues can lead to neurological dysfunction. It’s vital that one does not tax their resources when they might be running on reserves as it is.
Doing a TV show under tight control and people who get fired if they talk is a situation that can work for someone who is keeping this secret.
Running for President? No way.
Roger Moore
@Violet:
As I said, Perry’s performance was so bad it reflects only his incompetence and nothing about his assistants. Given that, there’s no real harm in admitting to being his coach, since nobody would blame you for his bad performance. But admitting to be his coach signals your own willingness to work as a debate coach and something about your politics, which is the real message.
WaterGirl
@WereBear: Wow, I had no idea. A person would have to be pretty desperate to get that surgery, then. One ounce? No one can eat like that; the whole thing is destined to fail. Again, wow. Not in a good way. Thanks for the info.
Violet
@Roger Moore: You’re probably right. And as we all know, in Republican circles you don’t fail–you just get another job.
@WaterGirl: I think that’s one of the reasons the gastric sleeve is gaining in popularity. It’s slightly less invasive and dramatic than the regular gastric bypass.
We’re now beginning to understand more about the role of the colon in overall health. There’s a reason it’s called the ‘second brain’ and the role of the microbiota in everything from skin issues to mental health is huge. I think in the future things like gastric bypass and it’s related surgeries will be seen very differently. You disrupt the colon and you affect overall health in ways that aren’t always as positive as hoped. That’s not to say that the weight loss effects aren’t good–they are. But there may be other ways to help people lose weight that aren’t so invasive or don’t rely on willpower.
Anne Laurie
@WaterGirl:
I’m not googling it for you, but living without a big chunk of your digestive tract is stressful for your body. Bypass sufferers need regular, small, carefully-planned meals, plus plenty of rest, and a good exercise regimen if they’re to stay healthy. “Yoyoing” up and down the scale — as Huckabee has done, visibly — is still more stress. A presidential campaign is hard even on a young healthy individual; running in a world where every passer-by has a cell camera & an internet connection is especially hard for someone with a big “secret” like Huckabee’s rumored bypass surgery. So either he fesses up as a lying liar who lied about his “God-given” diet regime, or he’s a TMZ headline waiting to happen.
Although, more importantly to my mind, Pastor Huck’s got a good thing going with his Fox news gig; he’s talked to reporters about how it’s nice to feel “financially secure” (big vacation house on the beach, speaking engagements where he can demand private jets & other perks instead of bus tours between ‘do it for the love of Jesus’ megachurch appearances) for the first time. He may publicly flirt with running, as long as it improves his “brand standing” — like Herman Cain, Newt Gingrich or Rand Paul. But there’s enough bloodthirsty GOP contenders that I don’t see him seriously campaigning in 2016.
WereBear
@WaterGirl: You are welcome. One of the scariest things about it is just now starting to be acknowledged; you take someone who very often has emotional issues with food, for whom a hearty meal of specific things is often their only coping strategy, and then you take that away.
That’s just on the emotional level. On the purely physical plane, for the first year or so there is very little hunger, but when the system heals as much as it’s going to…. the hunger comes roaring back.
And now, there’s nothing you can do about it.
WaterGirl
@WereBear: How awful that someone might do that, thinking they FINALLY will turn their life around, and then it turns into a nightmare.
Ruckus
@WereBear:
I have a friend who had bypass surgery and he eats regular meals. Fewer and a bit smaller but nothing like you said. I had heard everything you said from others but my friend doesn’t seem to have any of the problems or issues described. Is this something that happens as time goes on?
ETA Bet my friend had a gastric sleeve op rather than a bypass. Not going to ask.
Violet
@Ruckus: The gastric sleeve is less disruptive and it’s my understanding that people can eat more normally. I think more recent techniques have made that even more possible.
Anne Laurie
@WereBear: The surgery started out as a desperate last-ditch “patch” for people faced with immanent death or crippling immobility. But the short-term “success” interacted so horribly with our modern never-too-thin neuroses, insurance companies are “offering” it to healthy teenagers who could develop metabolic syndrome if they don’t change their habits for the next forty years. I have the suspicion that our descendants — assuming we have any — will consider it a horrifying social faddism on the same level as Chinese foot-binding or Mayan cranial modification.
mellowjohn
@Violet:
called “the bantam menace” by the late, great doghouse riley.
Woodrowfan
I went to college with him. I knew him well. a self-righteous dweeb, dishonest as hell, and yes, a dumb as a bag of rocks.
WereBear
@Anne Laurie: I completely agree. When I was a teen the “thing” was jaw-wiring. At least that is reversible.
Anne Laurie
@Woodrowfan: But he has “presidential” hair! Also, too, Pence loves Jeebus!
Don’t think he’ll get as far as an actual “campaign”, but it’ll be entertaining to watch the serious contenders kneecap him, starting… right… about… now…
Marc
@Citizen_X:
Of course they are. Cleek’s Law is in full effect.
Cervantes
@Violet:
Right.
And if a second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience, what can we say about a second marriage to the same person?