Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Joe Biden can go out like FDR, not by dying in office, but by crushing the fascists.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

A snarling mass of vitriolic jackals

If you tweet it in all caps, that makes it true!

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

This fight is for everything.

The new republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Quote tweet friends, screenshot enemies.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

Republicans got rid of McCarthy. Democrats chose not to save him.

The choice is between normal and crazy.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

The line between political reporting and fan fiction continues to blur.

Battle won, war still ongoing.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

Fuck that bum, let’s go Joe!

These days, even the boring Republicans are nuts.

Let there be snark.

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Cole, when it comes to calico cats, restraint is overrated.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / Open Thread: Terrible People with Terrible Ideas

Open Thread: Terrible People with Terrible Ideas

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Media Matters, with the nut graph:

… On the September 22 edition of his show, O’Reilly claimed that the only credible plan to defeat the Islamic State had to include a mercenary force of 25,000 “English-speaking” fighters that would be recruited and trained by the United States. O’Reilly explained that his mercenary army would be comprised of “elite fighters who would be well-paid, well-trained to defeat terrorists all over the world.”…

(Video at the link, in case you don’t believe them.)

Steve Benen is beyond dubious:

… For some reason, CBS was impressed enough with O’Reilly’s idea that the Fox News host appeared on “CBS This Morning” today where he touted his mercenary approach all over again. “It’s going to happen,” O’Reilly said this morning. “This anti-terror army is going to happen.”

I really doubt that.

In fact, after unveiling his preferred approach, O’Reilly sought an assessment from U.S. Naval War College Professor Tom Nichols. The guest responded, with a polite tone, “Well, Bill, I understand your frustration. I really do. But this is a terrible idea, a terrible idea not just as a practical matter but a moral matter. It’s a morally corrosive idea to try to outsource our national security. This is something Americans are going to have to deal for themselves. We’re not going to solve this problem by creating an army of Marvel Avengers or the Guardians of the Galaxy.”…

Reader Interactions

46Comments

  2. 2.

    Comrade Dread

    Why is it that the only government jobs programs conservatives believe in involve the kind of jobs that kill people?

    And if we think the current situation in the Middle East is a quagmire without any quick exit, just think of how awesome it’ll be once we introduce a profit motive to the situation.

  3. 3.

    scav

    Oh, congrats to U.S. Naval War College for having Professor Tom Nichols, unafraid to roll out the exact, proper and meritted level of WTF in Marvel allusions. Kudos to him.

  4. 4.

    Amir Khalid

    @scav:
    When it comes t the Avengers, I seem to recall that they answer to a US Federal agency, especially Captain America himself.

  6. 6.

    Librarian

    Somebody should tell Professor Nichols that we have already outsourced our national security- to Blackwater, Halliburton, etc.

  7. 7.

    Trollhattan

    You first, Bill, you first. And like pirates [yarrrrr!] your English-talkin’ clone army are paid in booty they sieze in their combat arena, not with one You Ess Eh penny, amirite? Sen. Ryan(R, Candyland) informs us the deficit is the greatest peril in the history of perils.

  9. 9.

    chopper

    I’m amazed billo didn’t cut off the dude’s mic after his first sentence. He must not have been expecting him to say ‘your idea is horseshit’.

  13. 13.

    Iowa Old Lady

    Bill is like a guy managing a fantasy football team who believes his strategy would benefit the Vikings. Only in Bill’s case, VSPs listen to him on TV.

  15. 15.

    chopper

    include a mercenary force of 25,000 “English-speaking” fighters

    I think a certain S.O.D record is apropos here.

  16. 16.

    Scratch

    @Comrade Dread:

    I believe that’s because lots of conservatives seem to now believe that FDR actually started or prolonged the Great Depression and that the only reason we got out of the Great Depression was because of World War 2.

  17. 17.

    maya

    Looks like the perfect job for the Bundy Brigade. ISIS will rue the day they started grazing off our oil fields

  18. 18.

    RaflW

    Only way I’d support the mercenary approach is if Bill-O, Miss Lindsey, Grandpa Walnuts, Bill Kristol et al are serving on the front lines.

  19. 19.

    Amir Khalid

    @scav:
    I don’t know. I think Captains America are military personnel (or at least Steve Roger is), so the process for becoming a commissioned office should apply. Iron Man is a defence contractor. But I don’t know about the others. And doesn’t Thor being an extraterrestrial alien raise some complications?

  21. 21.

    Calouste

    25,000 fighters?

    To use that famous quote: “Amateurs talk tactics, professionals turn logistics”. Good luck supporting 25,000 men in the desert 200 miles from the nearest port.

  22. 22.

    Elie

    @Scratch:

    Actually, we were heading into another slow down before WWII and WWII helped us a lot. FDR had cut back on the stimulus which resulted in a slow down. He (FDR) as you rightly state did NOT start the great depression or make it worse, however.

  23. 23.

    Shakezula

    I assume this shriveled cat turd came up with this idea after his hero, Eric Prince of Dorkness, announced that Blackwater/Xe/Acedemi would totes have gotten rid of ISIL by now if only Obama hadn’t made a fuss about the company’s little civilian killing problem. And it makes sense that he’d see a private army as the perfect way to get his war on. Just round up a bunch of English speakers (from somewhere) and give them a lot of money (don’t ask where it came from) and let them go off and fight.

    “elite fighters who would be well-paid, well-trained to defeat terrorists all over the world.”

    Why, almost exactly like the soldiers we have all ready, except for the well paid part. And the fact this president won’t let you play with them. Christ, what a fuck knob.

  24. 24.

    Jay S

    Eric Prince has already said America, hell no.

    Former Navy SEAL Prince then left for Abu Dhabi to continue security contracting work, vowing to never work for the US government after being spurned by the new presidential administration.

    He could’ve done it if Obama hadn’t hurt his fee fees.

  25. 25.

    Mnemosyne

    @Amir Khalid:

    I admit I haven’t seen the recent movies but, as a Norse god, isn’t Thor better described as an interdimensional being rather than an extraterrestrial? Assuming that Asgard is in another dimension of our planet rather than being its own planet, of course.

  27. 27.

    Jay S

    @Shakezula:t

    Just round up a bunch of English speakers (from somewhere) and give them a lot of money (don’t ask where it came from) and let them go off and fight.

    Surely an ad in Soldier of Fortune will do the trick.

  28. 28.

    Mnemosyne

    @Shakezula:

    I’d be happy to let Eric Prince parachute into Fallujah. I’d even be willing to let him have, say, a Bowie knife to defend himself against the families of the people he murdered.

  31. 31.

    srv

    @Elie:

    FDR had cut back on the stimulus which resulted in a slow down. He (FDR) as you rightly state did NOT start the great depression or make it worse, however.

    I think Krugman would quibble about the disconnect between those two sentences.

    People eating cat food three years longer than they had to might qualify as worser.

  32. 32.

    jefft

    “People eating cat food three years longer than they had to might qualify as worser.”

    except they weren’t
    The 37 recession lasted only 2 quarters, did not bring unemployment to 1935 levels, let alone 1930 levels, and was nipped in the bud by reversing the cut backs

    If you told anybody in 1939 that they were still in the depths of the depression, they would have laughed at you

  35. 35.

    Origuy

    What does a professor at a War College know about war, anyway? CBS should have gotten a real expert like Bill Kristol.

  37. 37.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @scav: Attempts to go the Congressional Approval (or at least US Gov. approval) routes were uniformly disastrous. Steve Rogers, James Barnes, and soon Sam Wilson were/will be the only successful Captain Americas.

    @Mary: Supreme Headquarters International Espionage and Law-Enforcement Division. /old geek

  38. 38.

    Slugger

    I think that this is an excellent idea. Please get me Mr. O’Reilly’s address. For a modest downpayment of five million dollars I will organize an army of fierce fighters. I have a lot of experience in multilevel marketing which will prove very useful.

  39. 39.

    The Other Chuck

    @Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:

    Or Strategic Hazard Intervention Espionage Logistics Directorate

    But now it’s Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division

    Which does make it sound like a US Agency, but it’s left ambiguous. Not to give any spoilers for people who havent seen it, but “who does S.H.I.E.L.D. answer to?” is kind of a big question in the second Captain America movie.

  41. 41.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    @The Other Chuck:

    But now it’s Strategic Homeland Intervention, Enforcement and Logistics Division

    Only in the Cinematic Universe. It’s been Strategic Hazard etc. since the 1990s, which kind of mutes the original international concept.

    La Contessa Valentina Allegra de la Fontaine was one of my favorite characters as a kid. I’d squee if she turned up to bankroll the new SHIELD.

  42. 42.

    Dog On Porch

    O’Reilly essentially espouses the creation of an American ISIS.

    If I cashed the paychecks he does, I’d espouse the creation of an American ISIS, too.

  44. 44.

    Paul in KY

    @Elie: FDR didn’t slow the stimulus. Congress wouldn’t pass any of his bills after the ‘court packing’ fiasco.

  45. 45.

    Chris

    @The Other Chuck:

    It’s been ambiguous forever whether S.H.I.E.L.D. is supposed to be a U.S. or UN agency in the comics. I think it was originally written as a UN agency, but changes over the years depending on who’s writing it. As in comics, so in the MCU – the name of the agency strongly implies that it’s U.S, but then the Avengers movie introduced a “World Security Council” with a bunch of foreigners.

    Also, the Pentagon allegedly refused to cooperate with that movie solely because they didn’t like the way the “World Security Council” fit into the chain of command. Eh.

  46. 46.

    mclaren

    …O’Reilly sought an assessment from U.S. Naval War College Professor Tom Nichols. The guest responded, with a polite tone, “Well, Bill, I understand your frustration. I really do. But this is a terrible idea, a terrible idea not just as a practical matter but a moral matter. It’s a morally corrosive idea to try to outsource our national security. This is something Americans are going to have to deal for themselves. We’re not going to solve this problem by creating an army of Marvel Avengers or the Guardians of the Galaxy.”

    And yet America already outsources a record amount of its military operations to private mercs, AKA death squads, shelling out 4 billion per year and employing more than 126,000 killers from private military contractors. Example:

    The Terrifying Background of the Man Who Ran a CIA Assassination Unit

    A federal investigation alleged Enrique Prado’s involvement in seven murders, yet he was in charge when America outsourced covert killing to a private company.

    A federal investigation alleged Enrique Prado’s involvement in seven murders, yet he was in charge when America outsourced covert killing to a private company.

    It was one of the biggest secrets of the post-9/11 era: soon after the attacks, President Bush gave the CIA permission to create a top secret assassination unit to find and kill Al Qaeda operatives. The program was kept from Congress for seven years. And when Leon Panetta told legislators about it in 2009, he revealed that the CIA had hired the private security firm Blackwater to help run it. “The move was historic,” says Evan Wright, the two-time National Magazine Award-winning journalist who wrote Generation Kill. “It seems to have marked the first time the U.S. government outsourced a covert assassination service to private enterprise.”

    Source: The Atlantic magazine, July 2012.

    Pioneering Blackwater Protesters Given Secret Trial and Criminal Conviction:
    Protesters who re-enacted one of Blackwater’s worst civilian massacres in Iraq got jail time, while the real killers remain free.

    Source: Alternet, 28 January 2008.

    Seventeen Iraqis were killed Sep. 16, and another 27 wounded at Nisoor square in western Baghdad when mercenaries from the company opened fire on them. Dozens of witnesses said that, contrary to Blackwater claims, the mercenaries had not come under attack.

    Several Kurds who were at the scene said they saw no one firing at the mercenaries at any time, an observation corroborated by forensic evidence. Kurds are one ethnic group that has been supportive of the U.S.-led invasion and occupation of Iraq. The Kurd witnesses work for a political party whose building looks directly down on the square where the bloodshed occurred.

    “I call it a massacre,” Omar H. Waso, a senior official from the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan told reporters. “It is illegal. They used the law of the jungle.”

    “Some of the victims were Iraqis who were close to the government,” an eyewitness speaking on condition of anonymity told IPS. “There was a notable fuss about five or six bodies in particular when the ministry of interior’s inspectors arrived on the scene.”

    The history of western mercenary companies, often referred to as “security contractors”, is full of such stories.

    “They killed my young neighbour Sinan in cold blood,” a 32-year-old using the name Ibrahim Obeidy told IPS. “They have killed so many Iraqis, and no one can even ask them why.”

    Source: “When Blackwater Kills, No Questions Asked,” Inter Press Agency, 2007.

    The private military contactor Blackwater (now renamed Academi because of its infamy in a failed and futile effort to deflect bad publicity) has recently been training U.S. police departments:

    1. Iowa Department of Natural Resources
    2. Maricopa County, Arizona Sheriff’s Department
    3. Matthews, North Carolina Police
    4. Atlanta Police
    5. Chillicothe, Ohio Police
    6. Charleston, South Carolina Police
    7. Port Chester, NY Police
    8. Highland, Indiana Police
    9. Unalaska, Alaska Police
    10. Metropolitan Washington, DC Police
    11. Charlottesville, Virginia Police
    12. Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority (Dulles and Reagan National Airports)
    13. St. Louis County Police (Missouri)
    14. Queen Anne’s County, Maryland Police
    15. Prince George’s County, Maryland Police
    16. FBI SWAT Team
    17. Gloucester Township, New Jersey Police
    18. Tempe, Arizona Police
    19. New York Police Department
    20. Yonkers, New York Police
    21. Fairfax County, Virginia Police
    22. Maplewood, New Jersey Police
    23. Gastonia, North Carolina Police
    24. Tampa Police
    25. U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)
    26. DeKalb County, Georgia Police
    27. Arlington County, Virginia Police
    28. Baltimore Police
    29. U.S. Coast Guard
    30. Suffolk, Virginia Police
    31. Franklin City, Virginia Police
    32. Milford, Delaware Police
    33. University of Texas Police
    34. Norfolk, Virginia Police
    35. Ottawa-Carleton, Canada Police
    36. San Bernardino County, California Sheriff
    37. Plattsburgh, New York Police
    38. Chicago Police Department
    39. Oregon State Police
    40. Los Angeles Police Department
    41. Tonawanda, New York Police
    42. Special Forces of Colombia
    43. Jacksonville, North Carolina Police
    44. Harvey Cedars, New Jersey Police
    45. Elmira, New York Police
    46. Department of Corrections, New Jersey
    47. Lexington, Kentucky Police
    48. Willimantic, Connecticut Police
    49. Georgia Department of Law Enforcement
    50. City of Fairfax, Virginia Police
    51. Alexandria, Virginia Police Special Operations
    52. Illinois State Police
    53. Dallas, Texas Police
    54. Hamilton, Ohio Police
    55. Morganton, North Carolina Police

    A number of the police departments that have been trained by Blackwater have abysmal civil rights and police brutality records, most notably the Chicago Police and Illinois State Police, both cited by former Illinois Governor George Ryan as being guilty of police misconduct in his decision to commute the death sentences of Illinois’ death row inmates. It was a decision that likely had much to do with his indictment by the Bush administration on corruption charges — political misuse of the Department of Justice that has been seen in the indictments and investigations of Alabama former Democratic Governor Don Siegelman and HealthSouth former CEO Richard Scrushy, Qwest’s former CEO Joseph Nacchio, Democratic campaign contributor Martha Stewart, Coastal Corporation’s former Chairman and Democratic contributor Oscar Wyatt, and Democratic-leaning trial attorneys around the United States, as well as the firings of several U.S. Attorneys who refused to engage in political prosecutions, and a Justice Department workup on North Carolina presidential candidate John Edwards in 2004.

    The training and potential political indoctrination of police officers by the extreme right-wing and proto-fascist Blackwater, coupled with the politicization of the Justice Department and U.S. courts, has the potential for the streets of Chicago, Dallas, Los Angeles, Atlanta, New York, and Washington, DC, as well as Chillicothe, Harvey Cedars, and Elmira to turn as bloody as the streets of Baghdad and Fallujah.

    Meanwhile, America’s private military contractor death squads continue to grow, expanding the services they provide to the U.S. government:

    Armed units from the private security firm Blackwater USA opened fire in Baghdad streets twice in two days last week. It triggered a standoff between the security contractors and Iraqi forces, a reminder that the war in Iraq may be remembered mostly in our history books for empowering and building America’s first modern mercenary army.There are an estimated 20,000 to 30,000 armed security contractors working in Iraq, although there are no official figures and some estimates run much higher. Security contractors are not counted as part of the coalition forces. When the number of private mercenary fighters is added to other civilian military “contractors” who carry out logistical support activities such as food preparation, the number rises to about 126,000.

    “We got 126,000 contractors over there, some of them making more than the secretary of defense,” said House defense appropriations subcommittee Chairman John Murtha (D., Pa.). “How in the hell do you justify that?”

    The privatization of war hands an incentive to American corporations, many with tremendous political clout, to keep us mired down in Iraq. But even more disturbing is the steady rise of this modern Praetorian Guard. The Praetorian Guard in ancient Rome was a paramilitary force that defied legal constraints, made violence part of the political discourse, and eventually plunged the Roman Republic into tyranny and despotism. Despotic movements need paramilitary forces that operate outside the law, forces that sow fear among potential opponents, and are capable of physically silencing those branded by their leaders as traitors. And in the wrong hands, a Blackwater could well become that force.

    American taxpayers have so far handed a staggering $4 billion to “armed security” companies in Iraq such as Blackwater, according to House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Rep. Henry Waxman (D., Calif.). Tens of billions more have been paid to companies that provide logistical support. Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D., Ill.) of the House Intelligence Committee estimates that 40 cents of every dollar spent on the occupation has gone to war contractors. It is unlikely that any of these corporations will push for an early withdrawal. The profits are too lucrative.

    Mercenary forces like Blackwater operate beyond civilian and military law. They are covered by a 2004 edict passed by American occupation authorities in Iraq that immunizes all civilian contractors in Iraq from prosecution.

    Blackwater, barely a decade old, has migrated from Iraq to set up operations in the United States and nine other countries. It trains Afghan security forces and has established a base a few miles from the Iranian border. The huge contracts from the war – including $750 million from the State Department since 2004 – have allowed Blackwater to amass a fleet of more than 20 aircraft, including helicopter gunships. Jeremy Scahill, the author of Blackwater: The Rise of the World’s Most Powerful Mercenary Army, points out that Blackwater has also constructed “the world’s largest private military facility – a 7,000-acre compound near the Great Dismal Swamp of North Carolina.” Blackwater also recently opened a facility in Illinois (“Blackwater North”) and, despite local opposition, is moving ahead with plans to build another huge training base near San Diego. The company recently announced it was creating a private intelligence branch called “Total Intelligence.”

    Source: “What if our mercenaries turn on us?” Chris Hedges, 2007.

    So everything Reilly is ranting and fantasizing about has already come true.

    America is already paying a vast private army of private contractor mercenary killers to indiscriminately murder people in third world countries.

    It makes you wonder what all the fuss is about. Since we’re already doing everything O’Reilly is gibbering about, why would anyone even bother to object?

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