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You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2016 / Thursday Evening Open Thread: Safe Bets

Thursday Evening Open Thread: Safe Bets

by Anne Laurie|  September 25, 20145:24 pm| 144 Comments

This post is in: Election 2016, Open Threads, Clown Shoes

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In a country that allowed George W. Bush to assume office, twice, It’s impossible to be absolutely sure any given mope or miscreant won’t manage to win sufficient electoral votes or the negotiable allegiance of five Supreme Court Justices. That being said, there’s an awful lot of chaff being emitted in advance of 2016.

No matter how many Mormons and/or vulture fund managers tithe, this guy is not going to be elected President in 2016 (thank you, Paul Constant):

… There’s an undercurrent of smugness in contemporary Republicans, a belief that if Mitt Romney had won the presidency in 2012, America would be a paradisiacal wonderland by now. And that pro-Mitt undercurrent seems to be going mainstream.

Why, no less a foreign policy expert than Ann Romney declared yesterday on Fox News that if we lived in an America headed by a President Romney, ISIS would not be the huge problem that it is. Romney believes her husband “would have tried to arm the moderates in Syria,” which would have curbed the ISIS threat, along with “other things that would have happened that would have made the equation a little bit tilted in our favor.” Do you see the error you have made, America? …

Nor will this guy, much though I hate agreeing with anyone working for WaPo‘s “The Fix” blog:

…[N]ot to take anything away from Webb’s service — including as a war hero, Navy secretary under Ronald Reagan and one-term senator from Virginia. It’s just that there wouldn’t seem to be a more unlikely presidential hopeful than Jim Webb… He retired after one term in the Senate and didn’t seem to particularly enjoy being in public life…

Nor, except in my nightmares, this guy (thank you, Mr. Kilgore):

Jeb ‘16—The Excitement Builds!
It’s no secret the GOP Donor Class loves Jeb Bush and would like to see him run for president. But if you have any doubts, read this unintentionally hilarious spin sent out via Politico’s Mike Allen today:

As Jeb Bush plunges into a frenzy of fall travel for Senate candidates, his allies insist a presidential campaign is becoming more of a possibility than even they thought a few months ago. He’s doing a lot of under-the-radar prep, including foreign policy tutoring and meetings with tech gurus. And several of his friends think he is leaning more yes than no…

In the next breath, Allen is admiring Bush’s practice of holding fundraisers IN FLORIDA for Senate candidates in other states… As to why this would “amp up demand for the former Florida governor,” Allen is as “opaque” as the man he’s hyping.

And, finally, I think we can safely cross this guy off the list…

Anyone who thinks it’s too early to talk about the 2016 presidential campaign should be aware that the Right has just chosen its Big Narrative for the cycle, via the Free Beacon’s discovery of correspondence between Hillary Rodham and—wait for it!—Saul Alinsky. It was previously known that HRC had written (both favorably and unfavorably) about Alinsky in a college thesis on community organizing (it would have been rather difficult to ignore him on that subject—sorta like writing about Chick Fil-A without interviewing the late Truett Cathy). But direct correspondence is a new thing.

No, it doesn’t reveal any revolutionary plotting between the two, and yes, this was forty-six years ago. But we’re off to the races…

… because I’m fairly sure “not being dead“ is referenced somewhere in the Constitution. Looks like the Wingnut Wurlitzer is ready to anoint him as the VP candidate, though!
***********
Apart from pointing & mocking, what’s on the agenda for the evening?

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Reader Interactions

144Comments

  1. 1.

    HinTN

    September 25, 2014 at 5:28 pm

    The Wurlitzer must breathe!

  2. 2.

    Belafon

    September 25, 2014 at 5:29 pm

    I’m fairly sure “not being dead“ is referenced somewhere in the Constitution.

    Mainly that the VP has to be able to assume the office of the president at any moment. It’s the defining requirement of the office. Boehner can get away with being brain dead and still be SotH even though he’s third in line.

  3. 3.

    Suffern ACE

    September 25, 2014 at 5:31 pm

    Yep. If there’s one thing that sticks out for Hilary Clinton, its that 40 year record of take it to the streets community activism. The Rose Law firm was just teeming with socialist organizers.

  4. 4.

    glocksman

    September 25, 2014 at 5:31 pm

    In the next breath, Allen is admiring Bush’s practice of holding fundraisers IN FLORIDA for Senate candidates in other states… As to why this would “amp up demand for the former Florida governor,” Allen is as “opaque” as the man he’s hyping.

    If JEB runs, the markers he’s earning from the candidates who win their races will help in the primaries.
    Also, the party bonzen really don’t like the idea of nominating a Todd Akin clone and losing yet another Presidential election.

  5. 5.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 5:32 pm

    @Belafon: GOP can tell you that the Democrats are sneaky. You run a pre-dead Alinsky, who wins, then some radical commie like HRC or Biden or Patrick sneaks in through VP slot as soon as the dead guy cannot make the inauguration.

  6. 6.

    dmsilev

    September 25, 2014 at 5:32 pm

    @Suffern ACE: Obviously, she’s a deep-cover operative, and once she’s President, the FEMA reeducation camps will switch over to implementing Common Core (as specified by UN Agenda 21).

  7. 7.

    chopper

    September 25, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    The Syrian rebels mittens wanted to arm weren’t the guys who would later become ISIS. they were those…uh…’other guys’.

  8. 8.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 5:36 pm

    Another entry in the annals of GOP outreach:

    Campaign Wants To Remind America: ‘Republicans Are People, Too’!

    ” They drive hybrid cars. They use Apple products. They have feelings. ”

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/republicans-are-people-beards-tattoos

    Don’t hurt a Republican voter’s feelings, you might even know one, vote GOP in ’16!
    I remember the GOP talking point that “corporations are people too, my friend”, so I sense a great winning convergence of messaging here, that will win with Unlimited Corporate-People Cash.

    Can they nominate some GOP-friendly corporation with a really good PR department?

    Edit: which reminds me, heard a news report that CA GOP voter registration still taking unbelievable dive in CA. 300K down over last couple of years, Democrats 100K up, indpendent registrations soaring. Many independents will be RINO to moderate conservative GOP really, but still, it is good news.

  9. 9.

    Corner Stone

    September 25, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    what’s on the agenda for the evening?

    I plan to check under every bed to make sure no members of the Ebilest Mix of Hitler/Stalin/Pol Pot cankle having, baby murderers currently known as Khorasan are waiting to murder any of my fellow sleeping citizens in their sleep. Or during their coitus, if Heritage is to be believed.

  10. 10.

    Suffern ACE

    September 25, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    Boobs on the ground?

  11. 11.

    Corner Stone

    September 25, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    @dmsilev:

    the FEMA reeducation camps will switch over to implementing Common Core (as specified by UN Agenda 21).

    Thank the blessed Ragnok and his horned minions!!

  12. 12.

    Schlemazel

    September 25, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    We lived in FLorida when Boy Blunder Jr ran for gov & he was perhaps the most pathetic excuse for a candidate I have ever seen (but then I left the shithole when Lawton Chiles was still in charge) My Republican friends assured me Jeb was the dumbest of the Bush clan. So he could be out next Commode in chief if we can find a Cheney to run the show for him.

    If you have not read about the life & times of Mr. Alinsky I would highly recommend it. I first learned about him in a Playboy interview and fell in love with his gentle subversive tactics to get underrepresented groups a seat at the table. He is a hero of mine, a great man and a true champion. It pisses me off to no end that he has become a punching bag for the ass clown no brain scum sucking pieces of shit that populate the GOP and todays media.

  13. 13.

    dms

    September 25, 2014 at 5:40 pm

    @jl: That was HRC’s message too, don’t forget.

  14. 14.

    Corner Stone

    September 25, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    Khorasan, who was labeled as a much more imminent threat to the US, had “aspirational” goals of developing bombs undetectable in clothing or maybe tooth paste.
    I, too, have aspirational goals that are just as dangerous. If you’re named Salma Hayek.

  15. 15.

    Schlemazel

    September 25, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    @jl: still just 55 votes for Prez. Its nice but we really need to flip some blue states not just bury the already won.

  16. 16.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 5:45 pm

    @Schlemazel: Point taken, and it is a good one. Wish I had some good news or informed thoughts on how to spread the win.

    My edit was as a current CA resident who ardently desires that the GOP stay very deeply buried in CA for state and local reasons. Keeping 2/3 of legislature is important, for example, and CA GOP is not buried enough for that job, in my opinion.

  17. 17.

    cckids

    September 25, 2014 at 5:48 pm

    @jl:

    Don’t hurt a Republican voter’s feelings, you might even know one, vote GOP in ’16!

    All I can do is quote Anne Lamott : “If people wanted you to write warmly about them, they should have behaved better.”

  18. 18.

    Violet

    September 25, 2014 at 5:49 pm

    I just can’t even imagine the awfulness of a Clinton (Hillary) vs Bush (Jeb!) rematch for 2016. The legacies, the nepotism, the Back to the Future tone. I’m already glassy-eyed just thinking of it.

  19. 19.

    WereBear

    September 25, 2014 at 5:54 pm

    “Alive and breathing” is going to wind up being the minimum for the Republican Presidential candidate. Could they possibly run Mitt again?

    I mean, they would, they have no shame. But would he try again?

    Also, I’m climbing a mountain tomorrow, not a little one this time. It’s deep in the wilderness! I’m psyched, since the foliage should be peaking about now.

    Also, too, I’m running my Way of Cats fund drive.

  20. 20.

    srv

    September 25, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    Apparently, much of the juicerati took the First Day of Fall too literally. There should be a “Life Alert” siren at the top of the blog today.

    I’m going to go drink.

  21. 21.

    Amir Khalid

    September 25, 2014 at 5:56 pm

    The 2016 Republican campaign watchers have gone from the Probables, past the Possibles, and are probably headed towards the Highly Unlikelies. In the meantime, they are taking a swing through the Land of the Already Lost, which is where Mitt now resides.

    @Suffern ACE:
    This is a NSFW image of a mythical Malaysian creature, the hantu tetek (boobs ghost) aka hantu kopek. Parents used to scare their kids with stories about an old lady ghost: she’d pounce on kids hanging around outside after dark and hide them under her pendulous boobs, never to be seen again …

    Not really something I’d associate with a woman fighter pilot, but who knows with Fox News presenters?

  22. 22.

    Violet

    September 25, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    @WereBear: That’s cool! I climbed a mountain a few weeks ago. Beautiful weather–lucked out. Hope you have a great time!

  23. 23.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 5:58 pm

    @Violet: If that scenario develops, we can watch Groundhog Day, over and over and over again, for our respecive sins, to prepare.

    The two personalities are so different, that if that time actually comes, I think the names and background will fade into the background.

    Probably gong to have to listen to Big Dawg Bill yammering anyway. Dub will be effectively locked inside his house from the outside, somehow or other, if Jeb runs.

  24. 24.

    Hal

    September 25, 2014 at 5:58 pm

    Sometimes I’m amazed at how much I dislike Ann Romney. Honestly, she’s said far less, and I know far less of her than other candidates spouses, but there is something so smarmy, self righteous about her. This is a person who has so much privilege as a wealthy white woman in America, but seems completely unaware of her status or the benefits it bestows on her.

    She’s also adopted her husbands habit of making completely unquantifiable statements. If Mitt were President, oh the paradise America would be. Really? After two years?

    But by all means. Please run again Mitt. Whatever anyone says about Hillary, the GOP candidates talked about seriously are terrible so far. Hell, Chris Christie may be the nominee after all.

  25. 25.

    Schlemazel

    September 25, 2014 at 5:59 pm

    @jl:
    Nothing against you, sorry if it came out that way. It just seems like it’s been a couple of decades of playing the “glad game” because the progressive return is just around the corner & yet we still are only able to fight to a stand still that benefits the nutbags. Its good news, hopefully the increased majority can begin undo the damage all those initiatives have had on the state.

  26. 26.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 5:59 pm

    @Schlemazel: @Schlemazel: And I am waiting for your apology, dammit!

    Edit: that was a joke, in the new spirit of BJ charity that reigns. I understood your point and wish other CA style progress on helping the GOP on its way with its death wish.

  27. 27.

    BGinCHI

    September 25, 2014 at 5:59 pm

    Jeb + GOP Primaries = Dead as a Doorknob

  28. 28.

    Splitting Image

    September 25, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    I still think that the Republican who makes the most sense is Brian Sandoval. The chief advantage that Obama and the next Democratic nominee have over Al Gore and John Kerry is the fact that Colorado, New Mexico, and Nevada have moved into the Democratic column. Any Democrat who holds onto the states that Kerry won plus those three will be elected President no matter who the Republican nominee is. Wouldn’t it make sense to nominate someone who is relatively popular in that region of the country?

    Instead of hearing speculation about Sandoval or Susanna Martinez, we keep hearing about how Hispanics in the southwest will swoon over a Cuban who benefited from favourable immigration policies which he opposes giving to anyone else or a guy who slinks away from his dinner when a nearby woman says that she is an undocumented immigrant. Or what’s-his-name, who said the illegals should all self-deport. No wonder Ruth Bader Ginsburg thinks it’s safe to hang on until 2017.

    The TV bobbleheads seem to be convinced that the road to the White House goes through the Sunday talk shows, despite all evidence to the contrary. Bringing John McCain, Rudy Giuliani, and Newt Gingrich into voters’ homes every week didn’t make them viable candidates, and it won’t help Rand Paul or Ted Cruz either.

  29. 29.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 6:07 pm

    @Splitting Image:

    ” Wouldn’t it make sense to nominate someone who is relatively popular in that region of the country? ”

    But they would be death in certain other regions and demographics that are the GOP life-blood, so not sure it would be a net gain when you think about the importance turnout in The Base. That is their dilemma, which they cling to, like an addict.

  30. 30.

    Turgidson

    September 25, 2014 at 6:08 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    More important than CA’s presidential electors is the prospect of the state GOP staying where it belongs, in a powerless legislative minority, for the foreseeable future. Just a few years of unfettered Democratic control has turned California from punch line/cautionary tale into something resembling a model of effective governance, comparatively at least. Our solidly center-left governor is basically the de facto old school Republican in many ways.

    Being a resident of California has been a bumpy ride since I moved here in 1998 – recall, Governator era, Prop. H8, and so on, but I’ve been consistently grateful and proud to live here ever since we completely resisted the 2010 red tide of crazy.

  31. 31.

    Lurking Canadian

    September 25, 2014 at 6:08 pm

    @Hal: I’d kind of like Romney to run again. Just for the schadenfreude when the White Horse stumbles n

  32. 32.

    Schlemazel

    September 25, 2014 at 6:08 pm

    @BGinCHI:
    I think the real key to the gooper trail is staying power. Willard didn’t win early (as I recall) but the donors stuck with him. All the flash in the pan clowns had their moment in the sun and then couldn’t make the next step so the money dried up. Willard and Jebby will have the money to stay for the whole circus if they want to. Krust Krusty Frothy mix, Kenny the Page all of the bozos on the bus may have their one brief shining moment but the owners will have the final say. It is hard to imagine them going with the magic underpants guy but they have pissed away money on stupider things.

  33. 33.

    SatanicPanic

    September 25, 2014 at 6:10 pm

    By all rights isn’t it Rick Santorum’s turn?

  34. 34.

    Violet

    September 25, 2014 at 6:10 pm

    @Hal:

    Sometimes I’m amazed at how much I dislike Ann Romney. Honestly, she’s said far less, and I know far less of her than other candidates spouses, but there is something so smarmy, self righteous about her.

    I don’t see her as smarmy as much as supercilious. She’s utterly unlikeable, that’s for sure.

  35. 35.

    RaflW

    September 25, 2014 at 6:10 pm

    I don’t suppose the GOP brain trust realize that Saul Alinsky is pretty much a meaningless name to 4/5ths of America?

  36. 36.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 6:11 pm

    @Turgidson: I think some CA policies, such as carbon cap and trade and (knock on wood) high speed rail, need to continue, and they may be important as examples. So I think a person can make a case that CA needs to keep GOP a small, marginallsed (self- and otherwise) minority in all ways not only for state and local reasons.

  37. 37.

    Violet

    September 25, 2014 at 6:12 pm

    @jl:

    The two personalities are so different, that if that time actually comes, I think the names and background will fade into the background.

    I don’t think the media will allow that. There will be endless reviews of the 90’s. Both Hillary and Jeb! would be compared to their respective family’s president(s). Even VH1 or MTV would probably get into the “All About the 90s!” hoopla.

  38. 38.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 6:13 pm

    @RaflW: How is that different from half of their previous presidential primary field? Other than Alinsky cannot make a fool of himself on a regular basis, being deceased.

    @Violet: Oh, please no, God. The ’90s will be the new ’80s?

  39. 39.

    BGinCHI

    September 25, 2014 at 6:15 pm

    @Schlemazel: This pleases me just as much as the alternative (primary bloodbath).

  40. 40.

    Felanius Kootea

    September 25, 2014 at 6:15 pm

    @Suffern ACE: You know I’ve been wondering why the UAE decided to identify its first female fighter pilot as being the one who led the bombing raid against ISIS. Aren’t they worried that ISIS will go after her/her family? I don’t see any other members of the UAE squad being named.

  41. 41.

    BGinCHI

    September 25, 2014 at 6:17 pm

    The thing that should really, really scare the GOP is that Hilary is something the Village Idiots know how to process, so if DC gets wired properly for a Dem like her, the GOP Crazy Caucus is going to get called what it is.

  42. 42.

    Calouste

    September 25, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    @jl:

    And then there’s combining “sense” with “GOP primary electorate”, which electorate, if you need any reminding, had a new favorite every two or three weeks in the months leading up to the start of the last primary season. Some of those favorites didn’t even make it to the first primary, and the rest didn’t last very long past it.

  43. 43.

    Doug r

    September 25, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    @jl: maybe you guys can finally bury prop 13

  44. 44.

    Amir Khalid

    September 25, 2014 at 6:18 pm

    @Violet:
    I haven’t seen or heard much of her myself, but she seems the type specimen of the Entitled Rich Lady. I’ve come across actual royalty who don’t act that entitled.

  45. 45.

    Turgidson

    September 25, 2014 at 6:19 pm

    @jl:

    Right – I hope if CA can keep voting and governing sensibly for a while yet, some of the most consequential good ideas will get exported out for wider distribution in the country. It’s happened before. But all it would take to derail the process is for some asshole Republican to slither into the governor’s chair somehow.

    Thankfully Jerry has this election locked down absent a live boy/dead girl situation. Plus, I saw some of the debate and Kashkari, while not quite as much of a drooling dolt as most GOP candidates these days, is a thoroughly smarmy and unlikeable piece of shit. So he’ll lose big.

  46. 46.

    MomSense

    September 25, 2014 at 6:20 pm

    Thank you to everyone who sent well wishes last night. Today we said goodbye to our beloved poopy dog after 15 years of extraordinary friendship. We realized as we talked today that he had different relationships with each of us and somehow knew exactly what each of us needed. Truly a great friend. The first time I saw him, his tail end was sticking out of the top of a work boot next to a big wood burning cook stove. He was wriggling and squirming to try and get out of the boot and finally when the boot tipped over he rolled out into my arms and into our lives. He was terrible at fetch, hated to swim, and rarely barked but he loved to play with his boys and was the favorite napping partner for the cats and people in our house. He had a great life and was well loved to his last breath.

  47. 47.

    Calouste

    September 25, 2014 at 6:21 pm

    @BGinCHI: No risk of that. Bill & Hill are still nouveau-riche hillbillies from Arkansas to the scions that populate the Village.

  48. 48.

    SatanicPanic

    September 25, 2014 at 6:21 pm

    @Doug r: That’ll never happen for residences. I don’t like it, but I’m not sure that getting rid of it would be a good idea, and the political cost would be way too high.

  49. 49.

    RaflW

    September 25, 2014 at 6:21 pm

    @Hal:

    If Mitt were President, oh the paradise America would be. Really? After two years?

    Maybe there’s some Mormon prophecy that if a leader in the faith gets elected President, then Mormon Manna would flow and all the (magically clad) righteous would be in earthly paradise?

    .

    BTW, I saw Book of Mormon here in the Minne-apple recently (touring B’way show) and it was sinfully fantastic.

  50. 50.

    BGinCHI

    September 25, 2014 at 6:22 pm

    @Calouste: I’m not sure I agree with that. Hilary is totally establishment, and she isn’t from AR in the first place. She’s been a Senator and Sec of State.

    The very thing that bothers the left will titillate the Village.

  51. 51.

    Violet

    September 25, 2014 at 6:24 pm

    @RaflW:

    I don’t suppose the GOP brain trust realize that Saul Alinsky is pretty much a meaningless name to 4/5ths of America?

    It doesn’t matter now who or what Saul Alinksy is. Wingnuts know he’s bad and wrong so they haul out the two words “Saul Alinksy” to signify wrongness. It’s like a code. Ask them to explain who he is or what he did or stood for and you’ll get virtually nothing. You might get something like “Terrorist!” or “Soshulist!” but they won’t have much or anything to back that up. They don’t need it. It’s just code talking.

  52. 52.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 6:24 pm

    @Turgidson: @Doug r: CA went through a period where it produced some very bad examples for the country. We need to work out that bad karma. Prop 13 is one example, I hope the very bad parts (which are at least half of it) can be buried.

    There was total residential property tax chaos in CA back then, legal, political and economic, but it was used as a pretext by the Prop 13 anit-tax thugs. Affirmative action another example.

  53. 53.

    Doug r

    September 25, 2014 at 6:25 pm

    @SatanicPanic: it’s always time for Santorum

  54. 54.

    Mnemosyne

    September 25, 2014 at 6:26 pm

    @RaflW:

    I still wish I could have seen it with Josh Gad as the star. The guy in the touring company here in Los Angeles was a little … sub-par. And the pacing of the first half was odd. But the actress who played Nabulungi was stellar — she basically stole the show.

  55. 55.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 6:26 pm

    The problem for the GOP is a primary base that eats up this nonsense and garbage like strawberry waffles with ice-cream on top:

    Fox: Holder Like Black Panthers
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/fox-holder-like-black-panthers

  56. 56.

    Violet

    September 25, 2014 at 6:27 pm

    @MomSense: Oh, I’m so sorry. What a lovely description of him, though. Sending hugs.

  57. 57.

    Patrick

    September 25, 2014 at 6:33 pm

    @MomSense:

    Sounds like a great dog, and an even greater friend to all of you.

  58. 58.

    Amir Khalid

    September 25, 2014 at 6:34 pm

    @MomSense:
    My condolences. He must have been a wonderful canine person.

  59. 59.

    mdblanche

    September 25, 2014 at 6:35 pm

    @jl: Hath not a corpotration eyes? Prick it, does it not bleed? Tickle it, does it not laugh?

  60. 60.

    MomSense

    September 25, 2014 at 6:38 pm

    @Violet:@Patrick: @Amir Khalid:

    Thank you. He was such a good dog–if only people persons were as kind and loving.

  61. 61.

    RaflW

    September 25, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    @Violet: Well, yes, but code talking to the base of voters they already have. I see nothing in shouting “Saul Alinsky” that will move actual independents (not the fed up Republicans who have left the party and become “independent” in name…).

    It’s just the sort of bubble item that makes GOP pols look like fools: “This time, we’ll say Alinsky in just the right way and all the voters will go ‘oh my!’ and vote for [nutball X or Y]. Mwahhahaha.”

    Its useless outside the base, and detached from the reality of voter’s lives in 2014, ’15, ’16…

  62. 62.

    Patrick

    September 25, 2014 at 6:39 pm

    … There’s an undercurrent of smugness in contemporary Republicans, a belief that if Mitt Romney had won the presidency in 2012, America would be a paradisiacal wonderland by now. And that pro-Mitt undercurrent seems to be going mainstream.

    This is too hilarious. It reminds me of about July 2012. The stock market had had a nice rally. Some idiot equity analyst from either Morgan Stanley or Goldman then wrote that the market was going up because it anticipated that Romney was going to win the election, which according to the “analyst” would be good for the economy, and the market. And here we are two years later. The market has gone up 35% under the “Socialistic Communist” from Kenya.

    It is not just the MSM that is bad. Equity analysts also have their own political biases that is not difficult at all to see through.

  63. 63.

    shelley

    September 25, 2014 at 6:41 pm

    What, no love for Santorum?

  64. 64.

    Turgidson

    September 25, 2014 at 6:41 pm

    @jl:

    Yep, it’s not as simple as just repealing Prop 13, which would be political suicide anyway since the stability and predictability it provides re property tax assessments is wildly popular (and can be decent policy with some adjustment). But it would be great to fix 13 so as not to starve local governments of revenue and to get rid of that damn 2/3 majority requirement.

  65. 65.

    Hungry Joe

    September 25, 2014 at 6:43 pm

    @SatanicPanic: Certainly we could get rid of Prop 13 as it applies to businesses. They shuffle ownership papers in order to pay minimal taxes on their property.

    But it should be changed (somewhat) even for homeowners; at one point our house and my parents’ house were appraised at about the same value, but our property tax was something like three or four times as high. I suspect you’re right, though, that the political cost would be too great.

  66. 66.

    Violet

    September 25, 2014 at 6:45 pm

    @RaflW: Oh, agreed. I don’t think they’re trying to move independents when they shout “Alinsky!” though. It’s talking to the base.

  67. 67.

    WereBear

    September 25, 2014 at 6:47 pm

    @MomSense: A lovely obituary, a long life, and was well-loved.

    No one can ask for more.

  68. 68.

    dmbeaster

    September 25, 2014 at 6:48 pm

    @WereBear: As a fellow mountain climber, where or where are you climbing?

  69. 69.

    Dee Loralei

    September 25, 2014 at 6:49 pm

    @MomSense: that was a truly lovely tribute. What a wonderful 4-legged family member he was. Condolences to all of you on the loss of a dear friend.

  70. 70.

    Steve in the ATL

    September 25, 2014 at 6:50 pm

    @Splitting Image:

    The TV bobbleheads seem to be convinced that the road to the White House goes through the Sunday talk shows, despite all evidence to the contrary.

    Exactly. Most people spend Sunday mornings as God intended: sleeping, having sex, or playing golf.

  71. 71.

    MomSense

    September 25, 2014 at 6:50 pm

    @Schlemazel:

    fell in love with his gentle subversive tactics to get underrepresented groups a seat at the table.

    The O’hare “shit-in” has to be the most subversive and genius tactic ever.

  72. 72.

    p.a.

    September 25, 2014 at 6:50 pm

    My bumper sticker contributions to Dems 2016: Jeb BUSH? Not Again! or…Mitt Romney? Not Again!

  73. 73.

    The Other Chuck

    September 25, 2014 at 6:51 pm

    @Splitting Image:

    Sandoval

    Brown. No base. Next!

  74. 74.

    RaflW

    September 25, 2014 at 6:52 pm

    @Mnemosyne: Cody Jamison Strand was our Elder Cunningham, I thought he did very well. The pacing of the whole show did feel about 5% too fast. I get that it’s meant to be a bit breathless to keep us laughing, but I felt like our matinee was rushed so the actors could nap before the evening curtain??

    Anyway, minor complaint. It was a great show.

  75. 75.

    Josie

    September 25, 2014 at 6:52 pm

    @MomSense: You wrote that so beautifully. I’m sure he knew he was loved and was a happy dog. Hugs to you and the boys.

  76. 76.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 6:53 pm

    If only the GOP community could police itself, can the responsible GOP not give a good Sister Souljah talk to their bad elements?

    Public Enemy – Night of the Living Baseheads
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8GbDYeKVZA

  77. 77.

    JPL

    September 25, 2014 at 6:54 pm

    @MomSense: I’m so sorry. It is never easy but he will be remembered by those who loved him.

  78. 78.

    mdblanche

    September 25, 2014 at 6:56 pm

    @RaflW: The point is to keep the remaining fifth in a state of high agitation because they are twenty twenty-sevenths of their base.

  79. 79.

    Botsplainer

    September 25, 2014 at 6:57 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    If I become a minion of the Antichrist in order to be chief torturer at a FEMA camp, is there a good dental plan that would cover a complete knockout on a wisdom tooth extraction? I’m a chickenshit, and mine might only partially pay for a begrudging amount on a local.

  80. 80.

    JPL

    September 25, 2014 at 6:58 pm

    @Hal: Ann Romney lost me when she mentioned how tough they had it when Mitt was in school. They had to sell stock after all. Gee.

    Also, normally I’m not snarky about what outfits folks choose, but she had on a knit shirt that was close to $1000. Really, really….

  81. 81.

    JCT

    September 25, 2014 at 6:59 pm

    @MomSense: I missed last night but your lovely tribute made me feel like I knew the sweet pup – good thoughts your way, sounds like he had a wonderful life with you.

    And Ann Romney literally sets my teeth on edge. Why or why is anyone interested in her thoughts on Syria? Jesus.

  82. 82.

    Turgidson

    September 25, 2014 at 6:59 pm

    @Hungry Joe:

    Yeah, there’s no going back to the pre-13 days for residences, and I’m OK with that. A homeowner of modest means who had either the good sense or luck to buy a house in a neighborhood that, a few years later, goes through a boom or gentrification, probably isn’t going to have extra cash lying around to pay quickly escalating amounts of property taxes unless they inherited money or got a much better job in the interim.

    Seems like there is a possible partial fix to recover some of the lost revenue if this homeowner gets taxed on the appreciation in value at the time of sale, but probably not a political will to do anything like that, either.

  83. 83.

    JustRuss

    September 25, 2014 at 7:01 pm

    @Violet:

    I don’t think the media will allow that.

    Oh please. The same media that bought WMDs hook, line, and sinker, and is wetting it’s pants over ISIL? And pissed all over Al Gore? I admire your faith.

    There will be endless reviews of the 90’s. Both Hillary and Jeb! would be compared to their respective family’s president(s). Even VH1 or MTV would probably get into the “All About the 90s!” hoopla..

    Yes, it will be all about the 90s. Which means it won’t be about W.

  84. 84.

    Violet

    September 25, 2014 at 7:01 pm

    @MomSense: Couldn’t do that now unless everyone bought a ticket and went through security. Still, I bet the TSA would be on it right quick and anyone taking too long in the bathroom would be taken away in handcuffs.

  85. 85.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 25, 2014 at 7:06 pm

    apparently, crossing guards are part of the social safety hammock:

    Ahead of a segment on crossing guards, the station’s own Mitt Romney recommended, on live television, that “parents do their fucking jobs and walk their little kids to school on their own, and not rely on everyone else. Kind of like people rely on government assistance for their entire lives.” He added, “I mean, how old are these kids?”
    “I think I qualify for government assistance,” quipped the reporter. “Just check that box, girl,” said Pieper. “EBT,” she added. It’s basically Anchorman, but more offensive to viewers.

    the quipping reporter “girl” is the correspondent who was doing the report, Amy Yensi

  86. 86.

    Roger Moore

    September 25, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    @Felanius Kootea:

    You know I’ve been wondering why the UAE decided to identify its first female fighter pilot as being the one who led the bombing raid against ISIS.

    I assume it’s a way of heightening the contrast with ISIL by showing they aren’t a bunch of retrograde misogynists. “We let our women fight, and they’re blowing you to pieces,” is a pretty strong piece of propaganda when your enemies think women should be seen only behind layers of cloth and definitely not heard.

  87. 87.

    WereBear

    September 25, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    @dmbeaster: St Regis in Paul Smiths, Adirondacks.

  88. 88.

    SatanicPanic

    September 25, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    @Hungry Joe: That’s my sense- we may get rid of it for business, but probably not for residence. And I can kind of see the point- some markets right now are appreciating so rapidly that it would end up forcing people out of their house. Then again, maybe prices wouldn’t appreciate so rapidly if taxes weren’t kept so low.

  89. 89.

    Schlemazel

    September 25, 2014 at 7:09 pm

    @MomSense:
    YUP!

    Although my fav was his Kodak moment. Kodak had promised to hire some minorities but then didn’t. The CEO was a huge fan of the Rochester Symphony. Saul put out the word that he had bought many tickets to the opening night & was going to give them away to unemployed people who would be given a free beans & beer dinner before the performance. He got a call right away asking to have a meeting & a lot of Rochester’s African Americans got hired.

    Nobody got hurt, no damage was done but things got fixed. How can you not love that?

  90. 90.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 25, 2014 at 7:12 pm

    @JPL: @Hal: Ann Romney lost me when she mentioned how tough they had it when Mitt was in school. They had to sell stock after all. Gee.

    Conservatively estimated at $250,000 in 2012 dollars. I just like to remind the world of that. I thought Ann Romney seemed likable enough as she first got media exposure, but I strongly suspected the Mittlets couldn’t be the complete knobs they were and are with just one douchey parent.

  91. 91.

    Schlemazel

    September 25, 2014 at 7:13 pm

    @MomSense:
    He was a lucky pup & you were blessed to have him. So sorry for your loss, please only think of the happy times.

  92. 92.

    WereBear

    September 25, 2014 at 7:14 pm

    @Schlemazel: Saul put out the word that he had bought many tickets to the opening night & was going to give them away to unemployed people who would be given a free beans & beer dinner before the performance.

    OMG. That is brilliant.

  93. 93.

    Roger Moore

    September 25, 2014 at 7:16 pm

    @Turgidson:
    IMO, the fix for Prop 13 is to apply the property tax limitations only to owner occupied primary residences. Grandma won’t get taxed out of her house and home, and big businesses won’t be able to continue paying based on 1978 property values. I’m even willing to stretch things a bit and accept farms as primary residences, since that would protect small family farms.

  94. 94.

    Howard Beale IV

    September 25, 2014 at 7:25 pm

    Ouch:

    “Sorry #ISIS, I know this too much and so harsh but it’s real,” taunted Twitter user @kafrev, which purports to represent an opposition-held town in Syria, using an alternate name for the Islamic State group. “A woman bombed you!”

  95. 95.

    Mnemosyne

    September 25, 2014 at 7:25 pm

    This morning, I spent 25 minutes on hold to get a one cent refund back from a vendor.

    I suspect this says more about me than I’m willing to admit.

  96. 96.

    Hungry Joe

    September 25, 2014 at 7:26 pm

    @Turgidson: Appreciation is taxed (20%?) at the time of sale, but there’s a one-time $250,000 exemption. I think (though not sure) that a couple could dodge the tax on half a million. That, at least, should go; if our house skyrockets in value and we sell, why shouldn’t we pay taxes on the entire appreciation?

    A rebuttal, I guess, would be that if you sell a house that has appreciated and buy one of equal value, you get hosed on taxes. Not sure how to respond to that, other than “Yeah, but even with that you still made out like a bandit.”

    Maybe if you buy a house in California within a certain amount of time the appreciation taxes could be lowered by … ? I dunno. This is why we have elected officials with, one hopes, good staff.

  97. 97.

    Howard Beale IV

    September 25, 2014 at 7:27 pm

    @Felanius Kootea: Pure, unadulterated, Islamic taunting. It’s one thing to make threats against the US and its poodles-but a WOMAN to these misogynists?!?

    Now only of the retrograde Saudi sheikhs would follow suit, now that would be the ultimate fuck you.

  98. 98.

    Trollhattan

    September 25, 2014 at 7:27 pm

    @MomSense:
    So sweet a remembrance. So sorry you’ve lost your friend–you all had a great life together.

  99. 99.

    mdblanche

    September 25, 2014 at 7:31 pm

    @JCT:

    And Ann Romney literally sets my teeth on edge. Why or why is anyone interested in her thoughts on Syria? Jesus.

    I don’t know. I think Axel de Fersen might be interested.

  100. 100.

    Mnemosyne

    September 25, 2014 at 7:32 pm

    @Roger Moore:

    Particularly since, if the story Raven posted this morning is accurate, ISIL has been specifically targeting women’s rights activists for torture and execution.

  101. 101.

    James E Powell

    September 25, 2014 at 7:33 pm

    By my reckoning, most of the people commenting here are old enough to remember back to 1999-2000. The Republicans united and put all their energies behind a completely incompetent buffoon. They kept the Christian Crazies and right-wing cranks quiet and out of sight. They got the whole of the corporate press/media to repeat and amplify their attacks on the Democratic candidate. It got so bad that by the fall of 2000, major figures in the corporate press/media were clearly, and gleefully, supporting the Republican candidate. They regularly published and broadcast falsehoods, then refused to retract them because they made such good stories.

    The Republicans did all that because they were desperate to win. They will do it again. After two terms with a [insert racist epithet] in the White House they regard as something to which they are entitled by birth, the Republicans will pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to ensure America’s New Gilded Age.

    And no, nominating someone other than Hillary Clinton will make not make any difference.

  102. 102.

    Schlemazel

    September 25, 2014 at 7:35 pm

    @WereBear:
    Yes, he had a whole list of ploys just like that. He was everything I ever wanted to be. He was a guy who made the world better against the thugs & cretins who infest corporate America and the government. Yet he never harmed anyone, never threatened violence, never denigrated the evil ones. He was a mensch!

    From TBOGG:
    Alinsky, for those who don’t know, was a community organizer in Chicago, who wrote Rules For Radicals. Quite honestly I’ve never met one person who has actually read his Rules, although conservatives would have the world believe that liberals chant the rules in backward Latin beneath a full moon while drinking the blood of aborted babies … and then there is the orgy followed by Denny’s for late night waffles.

    The main Alinsky rule that makes conservatives poop blood out of their eyes — I have seen this, it happens — is the one that says: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.”

  103. 103.

    SiubhanDuinne

    September 25, 2014 at 7:36 pm

    @MomSense:

    Oh. That was a lovely tribute. Big {{{{{hugs}}}}}.

  104. 104.

    Roger Moore

    September 25, 2014 at 7:36 pm

    @Hungry Joe:
    One of the problems is the classic one of all capital appreciation, that some of the increase is from inflation, so you wind up with a hefty tax bill even if there was no gain in real value. Also, IIRC, the capital gains exemption requires you to own the property for a minimum of 2 years, so it doesn’t apply to people who flip houses professionally.

    Meanwhile, for people over 65, there’s a special tax break that lets them carry over their old assessment for a value in their new house up to the sales price of the old one. So if, for example, they have a house currently assessed at $200K, sell it for $500K, and buy a new house for $600K, the new assessment is $300K rather than $600K.

  105. 105.

    Brian R.

    September 25, 2014 at 7:38 pm

    So a Fox News host said Holder led the Department of Justice “exactly like the Black Panthers would have.”

    I guess I missed the week when he let all black men out of prison and told them to take to the streets in full exercise of their second amendment rights.

  106. 106.

    Mnemosyne

    September 25, 2014 at 7:40 pm

    @James E Powell:

    I do think that W was a perfect storm in a lot of ways, though. He had served most of his political career outside of Washington, so he could position himself as an “outsider,” but he was the son of a president and the grandson of a senator, so he was “in” with the Village.

    And I know I’m a broken record about this, but I always have to say it: W lost in 2000. He lost by over 500,000 votes. It was only the shenanigans of a conservative Supreme Court that put him into office and a bought-and-paid-for media that kept him there. If you’re going to blame voters, you can only blame them for not rioting after the SC announced their decision, because they voted the right way.

  107. 107.

    Baud

    September 25, 2014 at 7:41 pm

    @Brian R.:

    The original Black Panthers or the New Black Panthers?

  108. 108.

    Baud

    September 25, 2014 at 7:42 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    I do think that W was a perfect storm in a lot of ways, though.

    Including in destructive capacity.

  109. 109.

    Gene108

    September 25, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    @James E Powell:

    The MSM was happily pushing right-wing talking points, since the 1992 campaign, when it looked like Clinton had a real shot at winning. There was scant little done to report on how Clinton was not a draft dodger. He was in the draft, but his number never came up.

    Of course White Water stayed in the MSM for a year, when it had nothing to do with anything Bill did as President.

    The 2000 election was the culmination of long, hard fought subversive fight by the Right that people outside the right-wing media bubble did not know was happening.

    Bush, Jr did not just keep the fundies in line, he got them fired up. He was going to be the Christian Evangelical President, which is why he went with “compassionate conservatism” that included faith based initiatives.

    The problem is when he flamed out, the fundies decided to no longer keep quiet. They run the joint and they know it. There’s no way to shut the knuckle draggers up, like there was in 2000 or even 2004.

  110. 110.

    Roger Moore

    September 25, 2014 at 7:52 pm

    @James E Powell:
    In addition to the point the Mnemosyne makes above, it’s important to point out that demographics have further shifted against the Republicans since 2000. The proportion of non-Hispanic whites continues to decline, and at least a couple of demographic groups (Muslims and Asian Americans being the most obvious examples) have swung from strongly supporting Republicans to strongly supporting Democrats. Add in that W only won by getting a larger fraction of the Hispanic vote than any other Republican for a very long time, and the Republicans have a steep road ahead of them.

  111. 111.

    Violet

    September 25, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    @James E Powell: They will. But there are not as many white people they can pull over to their side as there were in 1999-2000. And in the ensuing 14 years the hatred the GOP has for anyone other than white men has become increasingly obvious. It’s a much more difficult landscape for them than it was then.

  112. 112.

    Suffern ACE

    September 25, 2014 at 7:56 pm

    @Roger Moore: Which makes sense to try to tar Hillary as a Radical Hippy. I mean, it didn’t work in 1992 or 1996, but they can still try. They can still try to make this a referendum on 1969.

  113. 113.

    Hungry Joe

    September 25, 2014 at 7:57 pm

    @Roger Moore: Inflation plays into it, but the housing bubble — which may not be a bubble after all — has been a much larger factor over the last 20 years. Houses that were going for $250,000 in ’94 are $850,000 now; inflation accounts for only about 1/4 of that increase.

    (FYI, it’s “hippie,” not “hippy” — though HRC, like most people, is a little hippy.)

  114. 114.

    jl

    September 25, 2014 at 7:58 pm

    @Hungry Joe: Property asset bubbles are not new in CA. They were the source of the havoc in designing and administering an economically efficient and fair (at least perceived to be fair enough to keep pols in office) residential property tax system. From my reading on it, CA used to allow great local latitude in local property tax assessments that allowed folks of modest means or on fixed incomes stay in their homes through housing bubbles, and with great bubbling came realization and great innovation in gaming this system and corruption at local level. So, statewide standards resulted with produced great perceived unfairness, regular working class and retired bubbled out of their homes at tax time.

    I think CA will have to accept a very imperfect fix for residential property tax as long as residential property values bubble at regular intervals.

    Need a way to destroy Prop 13 for big corporations, though, which has become a property tax tax nullification racket for them, which I think was real goal of the Prop 13 thugs.

  115. 115.

    Suffern ACE

    September 25, 2014 at 7:59 pm

    @Brian R.: It’s worse. DoJ attorneys have started to gag themselves and handcuff themselves to their chairs, to prevent themselves from interrupting the judges with cries about the illegitimacy of the entire system.

  116. 116.

    Mandalay

    September 25, 2014 at 8:03 pm

    …the moderates in Syria

    Ugh. The chattering classes had only just managed to stop themselves babbling on about “the good guys and the bad guys” in Syria, and now they have managed to come up with an even more nonsensical phrase: “the moderates in Syria”.

  117. 117.

    Corner Stone

    September 25, 2014 at 8:04 pm

    @Mandalay: It gets better when they add “thoroughly vetted” in front of the descriptor “moderate”.

  118. 118.

    Hungry Joe

    September 25, 2014 at 8:05 pm

    @jl:
    Agree. Grandma actually WAS getting taxed out of her home, and Howard Jarvis and his goon squad used that as a cover for the (mostly not discussed) business/corporate side of Prop 13.

  119. 119.

    Suffern ACE

    September 25, 2014 at 8:07 pm

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: He’s just sayin’ what we’ve all been thinking. Or really, what we haven’t been thinking about.

  120. 120.

    Corner Stone

    September 25, 2014 at 8:08 pm

    Is ISIS the greatest evil possible? Or is it Khorasan? Or maybe it’s al Nusra?
    Or maybe it’s those guys who wanted to use blow torches to take down the bridge in NYC.
    I think this is the part where history and farce are making out behind the gym and farce has his hand up history’s blouse.

  121. 121.

    Howard Beale IV

    September 25, 2014 at 8:10 pm

    @Corner Stone:

    I think this is the part where history and farce are making out behind the gym and farce has his hand up history’s blouse.

    That statement wins the internet for today.

  122. 122.

    Helen

    September 25, 2014 at 8:28 pm

    @MomSense: Well, gosh. So, so sorry. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I am not not not a pet person, but you BJ people, who love your pets as family members, make me think I should be one. I feel your pain and joy and fun.

    Perhaps I’m a closeted pet person. Who doesn’t know it yet.

    Love to you and your children MomSense.

  123. 123.

    raven

    September 25, 2014 at 8:35 pm

    Fuck Jim Webb. That is all.

  124. 124.

    raven

    September 25, 2014 at 8:35 pm

    @MomSense:

    We who choose to surround ourselves
    with lives even more temporary than our
    own, live within a fragile circle;
    easily and often breached.
    Unable to accept its awful gaps,
    we would still live no other way.
    We cherish memory as the only
    certain immortality, never fully
    understanding the necessary plan.
    — Irving Townsend

  125. 125.

    PurpleGirl

    September 25, 2014 at 8:36 pm

    @MomSense: More {{{{Hugs}}}} for you and the family. He sounds like a great companion. I hope that at some time in the future you can find another dog who will be as good a companion.

  126. 126.

    Helen

    September 25, 2014 at 8:48 pm

    @raven: Nah. That is not all. “Fuck Jim Webb…with a red hot poker.”

    Much better.

  127. 127.

    MomSense

    September 25, 2014 at 9:00 pm

    Thanks again, everyone. Your kind words and hugs mean a lot.

  128. 128.

    Anne Laurie

    September 25, 2014 at 9:02 pm

    @shelley:

    What, no love for Santorum?

    Thing is, I think Sanctorum might actually be nominated. Don’t think he can win, barring a new upgraded NINE ELEVEN CHANGED EVERYTHING event, but he’s not a pure fan-fiction candidate like Romney v.3 or Jim Webb.

  129. 129.

    Person of Choler

    September 25, 2014 at 9:04 pm

    @chopper:

    Speaking of that sort of thing, when is the anti war demonstration? I must have missed the messages. I would hate to not add my voicel to that of the swelling throng.

  130. 130.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    September 25, 2014 at 9:07 pm

    @Anne Laurie: I don’t think the Money would ever let Santorum close enough to win, but he was making them veeerrry nervous in 2012.

  131. 131.

    Roger Moore

    September 25, 2014 at 9:07 pm

    @jl:

    Property asset bubbles are not new in CA.

    Absolutely. People see their houses as much as investments as residences, and that encourages the attitude that leads toward bubbles. There’s even some logic to it, as California property has seen a lot of long-term price appreciation even when you level out the bubbles- not too surprising when you see how much California’s population has increased and how densely packed our cities tend to be.

    The worst part is that anything that reduces the ongoing cost of owning property, like Prop 13, makes it that much more attractive to speculators. If we had a higher property tax, speculators would need a higher return to justify the ongoing cost of their asset, which would reduce the inclination to speculate. It would also encourage homeowners to see their properties as ongoing costs rather than just ever-growing piggy banks.

  132. 132.

    JCT

    September 25, 2014 at 9:08 pm

    @mdblanche: Indeed – would be right up her alley.

  133. 133.

    Lurking Canadian

    September 25, 2014 at 11:32 pm

    @Mnemosyne: And I know I’m a broken record, but what do you mean when you say “Bush lost”? The 500,000 is irrelevant. The electoral college is a stupid relic, but it’s the law. The only number that matters is Florida, and from what I remember from the fall of 2000, the recount numbers were jumping up and down, but it was always Bush. Bush by 1000. No, Bush by 500. No, Bush by 2000. And so on. I also remember “Yabbut, those recounts don’t include overseas, Florida-resident servicemen, who are clearly Republican…” It was a shambles and nobody knew what the final number was going to be, but Gore was never leading in Florida, as far as I remember.

    A sensible approach would have been to say, “You know what? Fuck it. This race is clearly tied within the margin of error, so we’re going to award half the Florida electoral votes to Bush and the other half to Gore”, but there was no chance of that.

    There’s also the argument that a lot of voters were confused by the ballot and voted Buchanan when they meant to vote Gore. But “meant to” doesn’t count either.

    Democrats have been saying since 2000 that Bush didn’t really win, and I’ve never understood it. Is there a recount somewhere that shows Gore winning Florida? The SC stopping the recount looks bad, but is there reason to believe more than just bad looks?

  134. 134.

    Mnemosyne

    September 25, 2014 at 11:43 pm

    @Lurking Canadian:

    Is there a recount somewhere that shows Gore winning Florida?

    There are several recounts showing that Gore would have won if the Supreme Court had not stopped the recounts and awarded Florida to George W. Bush — Paul Krugman had a good round-up in 2005. And winning the Electoral College is not quite the slam-dunk you seem to think — it only happened once before in our history that there was a discrepancy between the popular vote and the electoral college vote, and Hayes only won by agreeing to halt Reconstruction (basically, he threw Southern blacks under the bus so he could be president, though if Democrat Tilden had been declared the winner, Tilden would have done the same thing).

    But one of the reasons I keep saying it is that people complain that American voters are stupid because they voted for George W. Bush twice. That is not correct — in 2000, most voters wanted Al Gore to be president and gave him a majority of the vote. Bush won on a technicality and did not even have a plurality of the popular vote.

  135. 135.

    Mnemosyne

    September 25, 2014 at 11:48 pm

    @Lurking Canadian:

    Sorry, now you’ve got me on a rant. ;-)

    One of the things that drove me batty in 2000 is that the news media kept freaking out and claiming that there was no process to handle a discrepancy between the popular vote and the electoral vote, but there actually is — it’s supposed to get thrown to the House of Representatives, which votes on who wins. It still would have been a nakedly partisan decision since the Republicans had a majority at the time, but at least there would have been a freakin’ vote and not a court decision.

  136. 136.

    Chris

    September 26, 2014 at 5:13 am

    @Hal:

    Sometimes I’m amazed at how much I dislike Ann Romney. Honestly, she’s said far less, and I know far less of her than other candidates spouses, but there is something so smarmy, self righteous about her. This is a person who has so much privilege as a wealthy white woman in America, but seems completely unaware of her status or the benefits it bestows on her.

    I actually like her less than her husband. Which is amazing considering how much I loathed her husband. That’s before you even get to the politics – it’s just his way of relating to people. I had him pegged as a piece of shit all the way back in 2008 for the way he responded to that guy in a wheelchair asking about drug legalization, and by the end of the 2012 campaign I couldn’t watch him come onscreen without wanting to punch something.

    And yet, Anne Romney somehow managed to come off as more entitled, more whiny, more tone-deaf and “let them eat cake” ish than he did.

    Not sure where I rank their progeny. We didn’t see much of them, but I had to laugh at Tagg’s “wanted to take a swing at Obama” comment. Don’t you mean pay your butler to take a swing at him, rich boy?

  137. 137.

    Chris

    September 26, 2014 at 5:48 am

    @James E Powell:

    Here’s hoping that whoever we DO nominate has enough sense not to run from their predecessor’s record like Gore did in 2000.

  138. 138.

    Chris

    September 26, 2014 at 6:01 am

    @Schlemazel:

    I’ve read the rules. It’s a basic “how to” guide for anyone running a political campaign, and the only reason I can think of why it’d be “for radicals” is because it was teaching 1960s/70s New Left “radicals” – a.k.a. outsiders, most young and inexperienced – things that anyone who made a career in politics (certainly in the age of such people as Nixon, Daley, LBJ or even the Kennedys) would already know.

    “Power is not what you have, but what your opponent thinks you have.” No fucking shit. “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.” No fucking shit. “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” No fucking shit (there’s a reason “HYPOCRITE”! is one of the most oft-used attacks in politics). There isn’t a single thing in there that’s specifically “for radicals,” or even “radical.” Not all of it’s pretty, but it’s also not anything that hasn’t been used by American politicians of all flavors since the beginning of time.

    Once again, they’re basically squealing that the left should unilaterally disarm so their campaigners don’t have to work so hard.

  139. 139.

    Chris

    September 26, 2014 at 6:15 am

    @Mnemosyne:

    And I know I’m a broken record about this, but I always have to say it: W lost in 2000. He lost by over 500,000 votes. It was only the shenanigans of a conservative Supreme Court that put him into office and a bought-and-paid-for media that kept him there. If you’re going to blame voters, you can only blame them for not rioting after the SC announced their decision, because they voted the right way.

    It’s actually even worse than that, because the election was also preceded by a sizable purge of mostly-black voters that the relevant (Republican) authorities in Florida misidentified as felons (a precusor to modern voter disenfranchisement efforts).

    W didn’t just lose by 500,000 votes. He stacked the deck in Florida in his favor and still lost by 500,000 votes, hence the last minute lifeline the Supreme Court had to throw him. (Which was such a farce that they had to include a clause warning against using that decision as precedent). You’d probably have to go back to the actual Gilded Age to find an election that was that blatantly stolen.

    And I agree that Bush’s awesomeness was in being fully accepted as “one of us” by both the base (the future teabaggers) and the insider Wall Street/Official Washington crowd. Being unable to find anyone like that in 2008 and 2012 is a big part of what killed them.

  140. 140.

    Grumpy Code Monkey

    September 26, 2014 at 11:31 am

    @WereBear:

    Could they possibly run Mitt again?

    He’s still the least-objectionable candidate who actually wants the job. Everyone else is either making too good a living fleecing the rubes or completely, hopelessly bugfuck.

  141. 141.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 26, 2014 at 12:12 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    One of the things that drove me batty in 2000 is that the news media kept freaking out and claiming that there was no process to handle a discrepancy between the popular vote and the electoral vote, but there actually is — it’s supposed to get thrown to the House of Representatives, which votes on who wins.

    A discrepancy between the popular vote and the electoral vote is of no concern at all, constitutionally: the electoral vote is the one that counts, not the popular vote, and that’s it.

    The House votes if there is no electoral-vote majority. But it votes, not in the normal manner, but by states, with each state getting an equal say, which gives the Republicans a huge advantage in any such situation.

    The reason this process wasn’t used in 2000 is that it didn’t apply. Depending on Florida, there would have been an electoral-vote majority either for Bush or for Gore; the question was which. The closest historical equivalent was 1876, in which it was thrown to a special commission consisting of members of Congress and of the Supreme Court; but that was not a regular constitutional process either.

  142. 142.

    Matt McIrvin

    September 26, 2014 at 12:26 pm

    @Mnemosyne:

    it only happened once before in our history that there was a discrepancy between the popular vote and the electoral college vote,

    Actually, no. In 1824, John Quincy Adams beat Andrew Jackson with fewer popular votes; that one actually was called by the House of Representatives using the process for resolving cases with no electoral majority.

    And in 1888, Benjamin Harrison beat Grover Cleveland with fewer popular votes but a straight Electoral College majority (Cleveland was elected again four years later, though). No House vote or special commission necessary.

    What happened in 1876 was that the Electoral College win was itself in dispute, much like 2000. Whether it agreed with the popular vote had nothing to do with it, at least constitutionally.

  143. 143.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    September 26, 2014 at 2:13 pm

    Sometimes I’m amazed at how much I dislike Ann Romney. Honestly, she’s said far less, and I know far less of her than other candidates spouses, but there is something so smarmy, self righteous about her. This is a person who has so much privilege as a wealthy white woman in America, but seems completely unaware of her status or the benefits it bestows on her.

    @Hal: You should watch the documentary “Mitt”. The scene where he’s told he’s done, well, you don’t expect anyone to be real happy but he takes it with good grace, his sons somewhat less so.

    While she stands there glaring at Mitt with a look of the scariest rage I’ve ever seen on a person’s face. I have no doubt that if she hadn’t been on camera she would have physically attacked him.

  144. 144.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    September 26, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    @MomSense: Lost mine one year and 22 days ago. There will be other dogs, but damn, you don’t forget. Ever.

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