What I get for taunting Betty-I am now sick as hell since the annual sinus issue when the seasons start to change has now metastasized into an ear and sinus and throat infection. So it may be nice weather here, but I am not going to enjoy it.
Blerg.
raven
Go Bears!
Corner Stone
Sinus headache was what my ex FIL always used to call it after an unfortunate night.
Corner Stone
Someone needs to tell Texans QB FitzPat that he is not a running QB.
Corner Stone
Arian Foster looks like he should not be playing in this game. Very tentative so far.
Anoniminous
The Blog Goddess moves in mysterious ways, Her wonders to perform.
Corner Stone
Throw the damn ball, FitzPat.
raven
Ha, Culter with the fumblerooski!!!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
But are Lily, Rosie,
and the Jack of HeartsSteve, and Shawn going to enjoy the weather?Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
The Packer-Bear game has some shitty refereeing.
bemused
Sports related: We’re very excited about our son doing his 4th or 5th Iron Man in Chattanooga today. 50:53 in swim portion.
Corner Stone
I see where Charlie Weis got the can by Kansas.
Corner Stone
@bemused:
What is wrong with that boy?
raven
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): I’m reading a Georgia blog where they are just going apeshit about how awful the SEC ref’s are and how they need more “professional” officials. hahahaha
raven
@bemused: In the river ?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@raven: The only good thing about these refs is that they are making poor calls against each team.
raven
@bemused: Damn, quite a challenge!
raven
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): As is the case in the SEC. . .and everywhere for that matter.
Corner Stone
Son of a bitch.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
My general rule about refs is that if no one can do it well, the job is probably harder than it looks.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): It is a difficult job, but it can be done well. It is not being done well in this particular game.
bemused
@raven:
Tennessee River along River Walk.
@raven:
It really is. Triathletes are obsessed. Seems a bit nuts and over the top to me but he loves it. We’re not at this one but did get to one in Madison. It was amazing to see about 2,500 very expensive bikes from an overpass the evening before, all lined up and ready to go the next day. The whole Iron Man is quite something to experience as a spectator. At the finish line the runners get wrapped in these foil type throws. There’s massage therapists available. Our son finishes in daylight but there were still runners coming in at 10 pm. It was easy to spot a IM participant the next morning outside our motel. He was hobbling around and looked like he was really hurting. I don’t get the appeal but they must get a massive endorphin highs.
p.a.
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): you’re lucky. I’m stuck with Jets/Lions and Bills/Texans. And vicodin with an ice pack chaser for my back. What a waste of a beautiful day.
raven
@bemused: Hell, I just did the swim leg of a sprint tri two years ago and that was enough for me. I was in the old, slow men’s group and the fastest women were behind us. They ran over us like crap through a goose. Peoples is nuts! Congrats to him.
Joel
@Corner Stone: Thought you might find this piece interesting.
raven
@bemused: Does he do those “tough mudder” things too?
shelley
John,
You probably got a folder full of home remedies, but does the steamming-bowl-of water-with-towel-over-your-head do any good? If you’ve got any fresh mint, a handful of that thrown in really helps.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Cobb has always reminded me of Hines Ward except he’s faster.
different-church-lady
Karma: don’t fuck with her.
American Hobo
I became a fan of Washington D.C.’s NFL team watching Riggins run through the Dolphins defense with my older brother. I´ve now started a Change.org petition, requesting that Dan Snyder sell the team, for turning it into a joke. Please sign it. It might be a pipe dream, but maybe enough signatures will provide the self-awareness he clearly lacks.
Cheers
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@raven: The Packer who has been impressing me so far this season is Clinton-Dix.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name): Ha Ha!
satby
OT, but Booman has been out sick since the 16th of the month. Steven D just did an update that Martin is doing ok, but no word yet on when he’ll be back blogging. Just happy to hear he’s ok.
SFAW
Meanwhile, the Jets are giving yet another awesome performance.
After I buy them from Woody, I think I’ll dump Idzik, Ryan, Mornhinweg, and G. Smith. Well, I might keep Smith, and see if I can hire a QB coach or an O-con who doesn’t have his head up his own ass, to see if the kid can be the next Eli Manning, or if he’s going to be a Ryan Leaf his whole f’ing career.
raven
This some goofy fucking game.
Josie
@Corner Stone: Saw that this morning. As a Longhorn fan, i find it a bit ironic that he got fired right after being shut out by Texas. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@raven:
Agreed. This is the Packers’ second goofy game this year- the game against the Jets was the first.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@raven: Pretty much.
bemused
@raven:
Ha, ha, no way. A triathlete that does Iron Man competitions is a different breed. Our son is an engineer so it’s not a surprise that he took to this passion with all the meticulous diets, training, etc and precise record keeping. Right up his alley.
We do have a nephew, not what you’d call a serious athlete, that enjoys what I think they call Spartan Races. My brother just told me they are “mudders” and nephew just did another one in Mpls. Nephew sent me a pic of himself jumping over fire. Just goofy.
Bill E Pilgrim
@shelley: While we’re on this subject just a public service reminder to John not to use one of these or if you must then not without this or at least this, lest this happen. *
http://www.medpagetoday.com/InfectiousDisease/InfectionControl/30283
* The last image is not, of course, of a brain-eating amoeba but a brain slug from Futurama, which after colonizing their brains leaves victims devoid of free will or discriminating thought and only able to dumbly parrot the wishes of their masters. You know, like when you were a Republican.
raven
@bemused: I keep up with my daily swim time and distance since my Y posts the annual “100 mile Swim” results and gives us t-shirts. I had gone over 200 miles for the last 9 years but my shoulder issues this year mean I’ll just get to the 100! I can see how one would get caught up in it while the body cooperates.
Bill E Pilgrim
Well I guess five links in a comment didn’t qualify as moderation. I mean did qualify as moderation. You know what I mean. I can’t really duplicate it without the links in this case, so — little help here?
raven
@Bill E Pilgrim: post them one-at-a-time
Bill E Pilgrim
@raven: Thanks, but wouldn’t really work in this case. If it emerges from cloaking any time soon you’ll see why. Otherwise I’ll just let it go. Just to be clear, “a little help” meant asking John to de-moderate it. But appreciate the tip.
raven
@Bill E Pilgrim: O
Gator90
If the Dolphins could play Oakland every week, they could easily get mistaken for a pretty good team.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
Slippery field in Chicago.
Karen in GA
@raven: Makes me love my couch that much more.
bemused
@raven:
We’ll see how long his body cooperates. He’s 38 now.
raven
@bemused: I just hope he can moderate when things start to wear out. My buddy who is big in the Knoxville Track Club was a high level distance runner. He was told to back off and he didn’t. He’ll never run again.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
There we go, Pack!
raven
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Clay is no Walter Payton!
Karen in GA
@Joel:
Pissy little babies, aren’t they?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): I still think GB needs to get a big body in the middle of its defensive line.
schrodinger's cat
It is warm and nice and feels like summer today but I didn’t do much outdoors since I am still getting over a bad cold from last week.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@raven:
I’m sure I’ll understand that reference when I see the highlight. I’m stuck at home listening to the game.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
Yep. Missing Raji, for sure.
raven
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): He had a nice pick and run but it was obvious he was going to get caught before he scored so he ran out of bounds.
Sonora
Cole, Sorry for the unsolicited medial advise, but have you considered allergy shots? I completely identify with your suffering. I got sick and tired of being sick and tired ALL THE TIME, and finally committed to the regime. I have now become a proselytizer. Have been sick once or twice in the last five years, no sinus infections. Wish I’d done it 40 years ago. Also recommend a virgin hot toddy with local honey. Beat wishes…
Thlayli
I believe the title of “league’s biggest trainwreck” is now held by the Raiders.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
Ah, Cutler- the gift that keeps on giving.
raven
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): I think Marshall fucked that up.
khead
I am counting the days until individual NFL game betting becomes legal in DE and NJ. Can’t come soon enough.
Also, Dennis Allen – call your realtor too.
bemused
@raven:
Yup, that’s always a worry with dedicated athletes. Hard to cut back or give up a passion. Hopefully, he’ll figure that out but I don’t think he’s so hardcore that he’s not realistic. The cautious engineer side of him weighs risks carefully plus he has a supportive but outspoken spouse to chime in if he doesn’t.
Emma
I am at the — I hope — tail end of my own sinus crisis. Blerg is right.
Mnemosyne
@Sonora:
Another thought — I got allergy tested for everything under the sun and it turned out I don’t actually have any allergies. My sinus issues are due to my asthma. Who knew?
raven
@khead: Too bad you couldn’t take the Vols and SEVENTEEN yesterday!!
ruemara
I’m a little stuck writing a cover letter and job specific resume for my dream position with my dream company. I’m also really worn out. Didn’t I do this for years already? But, once more into the breach.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@raven: I could have taken the Gophers and 12 points yesterday. Even as numb to bad Minnesota football as I am, that was a dumb line that I wish I’d been able to take advantage of.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@ruemara: Good luck. Job hunting sucks.
SFAW
@Thlayli:
Not yet. That’ll be after they bring JaMarcus Russell back, hoping that he can provide the spark they need.
Of course, when they do that, John Idzik will be thinking “Hmm, that wily Al Davis – he must know something.” And then he’ll offer JaMarcus a two-year, $80M deal, to see if he can do the same for the J-E-T-S.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
Heh. Bet against Michigan the rest of the season. They’re Northwestern-in-the-late-’70s bad.
The silver lining is that Hoke won’t be back next year, and Mitt Romney toady David Brandon, the AD, will probably be out with him.
SFAW
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Does that mean Michigan will lose 47 percent of its games, or win 47 percent?
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@SFAW:
They’ll lose their remaining games by an average of 47 points.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
And the Tigers finally wrap up the AL Central title!
SFAW
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Football only? Or are you including soccer and hockey, too?
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): My father the Sports Pessimist has been complaining about the pitching almost daily for a month. So it’s fun to point out to him that his whipping boys dropped a shutout today.
I’m not sold on Kyle Lobstein as a long term starter, though.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@SFAW:
The hockey team is always competitive, so no worries there.
Who pays attention to college soccer- men’s college soccer, anyway? Good high school players in the US go to developmental leagues if they want to move forward professionally.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Michigan has one competitive hockey team. They haven’t stepped up with a women’s team.
Cermet
The poor Panthers – the Ravens continue their pounding of teams (yes, that included the Steelers, John) and the Panthers suffer an even worse defeat.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
Me, neither. Assuming Scherzer leaves, DD’s probably going to deal for the fifth starter in the off-season.
It’s STILL the bullpen that worries me the most, though.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): I do still wonder just why we had to trade Doug Fister for a non-magical bag of beans.
max
@Cermet: The poor Panthers – the Ravens continue their pounding of teams (yes, that included the Steelers, John) and the Panthers suffer an even worse defeat.
It was so bad, the Panthers were down 28 points with 2 minutes left and running the ball just to end the agony.
max
[‘If they hadn’t done all those runs for no gain they might’ve gotten a touchdown at the end.’]
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
Nor have the Gophers added women’s lacrosse or water polo.
SFAW
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Good dodge. You must be a Rmoney supporter.
I was just asking you to clarify what you meant. (Although I already knew the answer.) And, yes, I know that Michigan does OK in hockey. Almost as well as BU and BC, since 1960.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
I think it had something to do with money.
khead
4-2 for zero dollars in the early shift. Thanks Stillers.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@SFAW:
Now THAT is funny!
cckids
@Karen in GA:
The part of that article that is just (to me) un-f*cking-believable is that the author wore a shirt to the tailgate party/game that read “Caucasians”, and was verbally attacked for it.
WTF, racists?
JPL
uh oh, someone’s sinus infection just got worse.
debit
Cole, I’m sorry. That had to sting.
khead
Fuck you Stillers. Just killed a winning teaser too.
Wally Ballou
Tigers win to clinch their fourth straight AL Central title.
Lions win on the road.
Bears lose.
This has been a great sports day for me. That is all.
Oh, wait, that’s not all. If you haven’t seen Steve Souza’s spectacular, diving catch to get the last out if a no-hitter for the Nationals’ Jordan Zimmerman, by all means go ahead and do so now.
Cermet
Someone send help to John, the Steelers lose it with just 40 sec (after getting the ball with like 1:40 left.) The TB drive over 50 yards for a TD! John will not be happy ….
p.a.
@SFAW: don’t knock Brandon, he brought D1 lacrosse to Michigan.
Gene108
I think Betty will be doing the taunting now. Bucs stole one from the Steelers. Caught the last couple of minutes.
Corner Stone
Whew. Texans sweat out a close one on the strength of a JJ Watt 80 yd TAINT.
Corner Stone
Steve Smith Sr. seems to have a, uh, score to settle with Carolina.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Well, yes, but I don’t travel to lacrosse or water polo games. If Michigan added a women’s hockey team I’d see my parents more often.
p.a.
Will Cole be posting asking for advice on what replacement TV to buy?
My MNF prediction: KC 27 NE 13.
drkrick
@Wally Ballou: Zimmerman’s no-hitter was sweet. The Nationals had been pulling the regulars one by one for ovation purposes, so by the end of the game it was Zimmerman, catcher Wilson Ramos and seven bench players / September call-ups and they still pulled it off. Even better, the local NFL team didn’t play at all.
Wally Ballou
@drkrick: This is the second year in a row a no-no has been thrown on the regular season’s final day, and weirdly both involved the Marlins. Last year it was Miami’s Henderson Alvarez blanking my Tigers.
Tree With Water
The Niners have deserved to lose the games they have, but straight on, they have been on the receiving end of more horse-shit calls in these first few games than I can recall ever happening before.
Indeed, Troy Aikman just got through saying exactly that on-air, during the 1st quarter of the Niner-Eagles game.
I don’t think they’re out to make an example of the Niners. I tend to think that there’s been too many changes to the rules in the last few years, and the officials are having troubles for that reason. It’s a league wide problem, effecting pretty much every game across the board.
drkrick
@Wally Ballou: Even weirder: Alvarez was the losing pitcher today.
ThresherK
@shelley: I can tell you that it does help. At least for me.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
The NFL’s QB rating system is screwed up. Right now, Teddy Bridgewater is 6 for 6 for an average of 16.3 yards per attempt. His opponent is 4 of 7 for less than half as many yards per throw but has a higher rating because one of them was a touchdown.
If you’re averaging 16 yards per attempt, you should max out the system.
raven
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): 6 for 8 and it’s early
Tree With Water
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): I’ve always found the QB rating system to be more or less incomprehensible to begin with.
HinTN
@bemused: We came through the back way and caught an intersection where the police were refereeing cars to allow the bikers free passage. Congrats to your son; perhaps we saw him.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@raven: It was 6 for 6 when I posted; he’s since thrown 2 incompletions. But that demonstrates a flaw in the system: it badly overweights TD/Interception ratio.
Tommy
It is just a good day. My Cardinals won their division (although backed in with a Pirates lose. And since my team based in DC has a bye week, it is like a “win” since at least we didn’t lose :). Plus I got to see my 5 year old niece Katie play two soccer games this weekend for the first time and I don’t think I’ve ever seen as many happy 5 year olds (playing on five fields) in my life.
I know I am on record here saying that I think not keeping score, everybody has to play, mercy rules are making our children wimps.* Well I stand corrected. They don’t keep score. The refs were the parents. Boys played with and against girls. More smiling faces then I’ve ever seen. Over three hours on the fields (the games are 45 minutes) I don’t think I saw a single 5-year-old get mad, or even cry. That seems both pretty amazing and wonderful at the same time.
So good weekend …
*I tend be an over-the-top competitive person. As sad as it might be it is almost hard for me to let Katie bet me in checkers :).
WaterGirl
@ruemara: Does this mean there is a job opening for your dream job in your dream company? Yay for that!
I have been out of the loop for a few days – do you still have your old job for awhile? Or did something crazy happen?
Editors note: Which would be totally out of character for your boss, so that would never happen, right?
Tommy
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): I am a HUGE football fan and with baseball, I get all nerdy with at least the basics of Sabermetrics. I will admit I’ve never looked into the rating system for QBs, but watched many games where the “basic” ‘passing stats are put up for a QB and see their rating and think WTF. It always seemed so “off” to me I, as I just said, never even really looked into how it is computed.
Corner Stone
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
If you go 15/18 for 300 yds, and have 9 points and 1 INT what do you think they should rate higher?
Tommy
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Oh just a comment or two on Bridgewater. I am a HUGE football fan. But if I had to pick college vs. the NFL I wouldn’t pause for a second to choose college football. After the NFL Combine it seemed all the “talking heads” and “experts” started to sour on Bridgewater. I was a little confused because in the games I saw I thought he was pretty stunning.
Were their players with better stats? Yes. Maybe more athletic? Yes. Stronger arms? Yes. More “big” wins? Yes.
But the games I saw Louisville play over the last two years or so he was the ONLY QB I saw that looked like a Pro playing in college (and yes Louisville’s offensive system helped — but that kind of reinforces my point I think).
BTW: I can’t stand Norv Turner as a head coach (he coached my DC team). But if I had a young QB that needed a mentor (ask this guy named Aikman what he thinks of him) or somebody to run an offense, he might be my first call.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Corner Stone: I’m not sure what the 9 points mean (1.5 TDs? is that a fantasy football thing?), but if you average 16.7 yards per attempt, you have had an amazingly good game. Anything over 7.5 yds/attempt is pretty good.
Of all of the simple stats that a QB accumulates, the one that correlates best with winning percentage is yards per attempt. It’s a better predictor than total yards; interceptions; TDs; TD/Int ratio; anything. You have to get into the advanced stats before you find one that predicts better. This is why Bart Starr was probably the best QB of all time until Peyton Manning hit the league.
Corner Stone
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
I’ll take any of those three guys, thanks.
Ruckus
@bemused:
50-51 min in 35-40 is a solid time. If he’s that good in everything a low 10 hr should be in the cards.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Tommy: Bridgewater has something that the other guys in his draft class didn’t and it’s something you can’t measure at the combine and tends to be underrated by scouts: the ability to make good decisions when under pressure. It’s something that teams think they’ll be able to teach, whereas they don’t think they can teach arm strength and athleticism. In practice, that doesn’t work as well as they’d like.
Andy Dalton is the current poster child. People have been complaining that he chokes in the playoffs but that’s not really it. His problem is that he’s terrible when under pressure. He’s looked bad in the playoffs because the draw has put him up against teams with fearsome pass rushes. So far this season he’s looked very good when pressured; we’ll see if he can keep it up.
Bridgewater in college demonstrated amazing ability to throw under pressure. He doesn’t have the tools that Bortles or Manziel have but at least right now he’s probably a better game quarterback. Whether that is true in the long run depends upon how well the others develop pocket presence.
Tree With Water
@Tommy: Baseball immortal Bob Gibson was asked if his competitive streak on the field was carried over into his private life. He replied by saying that he had probably played tic-tac-toe with his five year old daughter a hundred times, and she hadn’t beat him yet.
dance around in your bones
I’m kinda watching the foozball game in the background.
My grandson wanted to go surfing for the SECOND time today, but he wanted me to rinse out his wetsuit and put it in the dryer (briefly). I told him surfers have to stand up and take the wet and the sand. As soon as he gets in the water it’s all good.
I have a terrible cold and feel like shit.
Corner Stone
Greg Abbott wants to “spend” $1B on Texas highways. Without raising taxes.
Really?
Really?
Uh huh.
Ruckus
@ruemara:
Good luck on the dream job.
I had one of those, the dream turned out not to be. But I gave it a shot and a good run, had fun for a while.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Corner Stone: Brady is probably a bit overrated, though still very damned good. The question of Young and Rodgers isn’t whether they are (or, in Young’s case, were) great QBs: Rodgers has 8.1 yds/attempt for his career and Young had 8.4. Those are among the all time greats. The question is whether either of them have enough games to be rated more highly than other QBs with numbers that are close to them with more games.
And, for what it’s worth, Peyton Manning has a better career TD/Int ratio than Young at 2.27.
Tree With Water
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): “This is why Bart Starr was probably the best QB of all time until Peyton Manning hit the league”.
You’re kidding, right?
How many passes on average did Starr throw per game?
To compare him to the greats of the passing era/modern game just doesn’t hold water*. Different era, different game..
* (I watched My Cousin Vinnie again last night).
Joel Hanes
Last time I had throat/sinus, I was delighted to discover that
Celestial’s SleepyTime Sinus Soother tea seemed to make me feel much better. Not a medicine, but an effective remedy.
Tommy
@Tree With Water: I know that story well as a Cards fan and a bigger Gibson fan. My father and grandfather NEVER let me win at anything. I recall the first time I beat my father in golf when I was 11 (I was something of a phenom in golf). I wanted to kick his ass. From as early as I could recall he’d call penalties on me. I am sure in some instances I might have been trying to cheat out of frustration, but 95% of the time I didn’t know the rules. Told me that didn’t matter, learn them.
After I beat him he almost never played with me again. Not because he didn’t want to lose, but he wanted me to play with better people more to my level and he found them for me.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
The lack of playing time is also why the guys at the very top of the yds/attempt list (Otto Graham; Sid Luckman; and Norm van Brocklin) aren’t among the all time greats.
ruemara
@WaterGirl: lol, yeah, I’m theoretically there, but the whole place has turned into Ms. Pevenses Middle School for Girls production of MacBeth. And I still have an end date that’s ridiculously near and could be even sooner. So, fingers crossed for me.
Corner Stone
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Matt Schaub is in the top 20 but Joe Montana and Brady are not.
Tommy
@Tree With Water: Well this:
If you don’t know football Starr was the first passing QB back when none of the QB friendly rules were in place we’ve seen in my lifetime. His numbers are nothing compared to those of today, but I’d rate him in the top 5 QBs of all time. And I think almost EVERY expert says the same. The most yards he threw for in a season was 2,257 in 1966. But that was freaking 1966.
Have you ever watched any NFL Films of what football was like for a QB (or football in general) in 1966?
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Tree With Water: Again, if you want a correlation between a QB’s performance and winning the game, yds/attempt is significantly better than any of the other stats, including yds/game.
Now, note carefully that I said that Starr was probably the best until Manning joined the league. Since then he isn’t the only one that’s passed him. Manning has. Aaron Rodgers is very likely to end up better. Philip Rivers is better. Ben Roethlisberger is at least as good. Drew Brees is close enough in yds/attempt that the other stats push him ahead.
The game has changed tremendously but if you want to try to argue which QB was the best relative to his era, Starr rates very, very highly.
Manyakitty
Landed in CLE on Monday evening after a fabulous few days in LA. Woke up Tuesday morning with a massive sore throat. Went to work late, came home, felt awful, coughing, heavy sinus flow, and had a fever. Worked for two hours on Wednesday, went home, crashed. Home Thursday. Worked for 15 minutes on Friday. Got antibiotics on Saturday. STILL have a fever. Gotta try again tomorrow, since my five days of PTO were gone by August. TMI, I know, but I wanted a public pity party. Crap.
ETA: NEOhio is having some of the best weather of the year right now: clear, sunny, mid-70s. Gah.
Tree With Water
@Tommy: Sounds like you were raised by some pretty sharp people.
Suffern ACE
@Tommy: roman Gabriel is never mentioned in these discussions, but he and Johnny Unitas were better than Starr from the same era.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Corner Stone: Matt Schaub has been a hell of a quarterback over the length of his career. One terrible season doesn’t change that.
Brady and Montana both fall into the category of great QBs who aren’t as great as their reputations because they’ve tended to play on very good teams. Much like wins and losses for baseball pitchers, wins and Super Bowls are a lousy way to try to evaluate how well quarterbacks have played because it’s contaminated by how well everyone else has played.
Tree With Water
@Manyakitty: You won’t make it. Give up. What the hell is the use of doing anything, anyway?
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@Suffern ACE: Ahem. No one was better than Starr. No one. On this, I shall dogmatically insist. What Starr did was win.
Manyakitty
@Tree With Water: Huh?
Thlayli
Best big-game QBs in NFL history:
Sid Luckman
Bart Starr
Joe Montana
Honorable mentions: Otto Graham, Tom Brady.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Suffern ACE: Unitas would be a good choice and is the main reason I use “probably” when saying Starr was the best. Roman Gabriel wasn’t even close to either of them.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
Meanwhile, Teddy Bridgewater is off to a hell of a start in his career. 15/22 for 252 yards with 0 TDs and 0 Int.
Brendan in Charlotte
@Corner Stone: @efgoldman: He probably wants to do what the genius McCrory here in NC does. He wants to “borrow” $1b dollars for the road projects that rank low on the list of priorities. He won’t raise taxes either – but he wants to use public/private partnerships for the funding (essentially creating toll roads). So he doesn’t “raise taxes”; but it costs everyone $ to use formerly free roads…
Tree With Water
@Manyakitty: It was a pathetic stab at humor. Knowing how bad a bad flu can feel, I was going for an aborted chuckle by telling you all is indeed as hopeless as you now feel. Hope you feel better, soon.
raven
GO Falcons!
Tree With Water
@Thlayli: They’re all in the conversation, and forever will be.
By The Way, Did You Know: That Robert Duvall incorporated the physical mannerisms of Sid Luckman into his performance as Gus in the great film Lonesome Dove? You can look it up.
I saw what must have been one of Luckman’s final filmed interviews. Knowing Duvall had said that (he visited Luckman prior to shooting in Texas), it was fantastic to watch Luckman’s mannerisms. It was as if he was possessed by the spirit of Gus, when it was the other way around.
Tree With Water
@Tommy: I did better than that. I watched Starr’s Packers whip the 49ers in Kezar stadium. Probably 2-3 times. I have definite memories of the final ass kicking. But I still rank Starr on a lower tier than you do.
SFAW
@p.a.:
I wasn’t the one knocking him.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
If that’s your only criterion, then Brady and Montana are/were better. Winning when there are only four teams in the league is tough, but winning in a 73-team, post-salary-cap league is somewhat more difficult.
Of course, Starr did manage to overcome the handicap of having a shitty coach, so I’ll give you that.
Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name)
@SFAW: That’s crazy talk. You should get some sleep.
PaulW
ahem. BUCS WIN BUCS WIN!
http://www.bucsnation.com/2014/9/28/6859829/observations-of-the-did-you-effing-see-that-bucs-steelers-miracle
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus (the first of his name):
It would only be crazy talk if I were a cheese head. For the rest of the world, a/k/a Reality, not so much.
And I’m still annoyed that Farvrevrervre took a dive, just so that Strahan could get another sack.
SFAW
@SFAW:
And I was/am a Giants fan, by the way.
(Jets, too, unfortunately. And having all them’s be in Joisey also sucks.)
Manyakitty
@Tree With Water: Thanks! I thought that’s what you meant, but my brain is as lame as the rest of me right now. Levity is good!
Tree With Water
@SFAW: It all boils down to the fact the game has discernible era’s.
SFAW
@Tree With Water:
Kinda like thin Elvis and fat Elvis? Patrick Troughton and David Tennant? Curly Howard and “Curly Joe” DeRita? (Sorry for that last one.)
Tree With Water
@SFAW: More like an era of a cloud of dust and 3 yards being supplanted by the passing game.
The very greats would be great in any era.
Tree With Water
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): The Niners teams of its golden era succeeded because Montana was the QB, not quite the other way around. The teams surrounding him were good enough, and then great, and then grew stronger throughout his career. But Joe was The Man. Those teams of his era would never have accomplished what they did without him.
Lest We Forget.. A hat tip to Bill Walsh, too.
Corner Stone
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
You’re just bullshitting now, right? I mean, you kind of have to be. Right?
Tree With Water
@Corner Stone: That’s the sad thing. I don’t think he is.
Corner Stone
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
Schaub has never won a fucking thing and may never start again in the NFL outside of injury to the #1 QB.
Don’t tell me about Matt Motherfucking Schaub. I watched him dip and dunk and try and get Andre Johnson killed for more seasons than you can imagine.
You want to try and use some bullshit numbers because that’s your comfort zone, fine. But don’t act like that transplants reality.
Some of us have seen the snaps, and know what to look for.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Suffern ACE:
Sonny Jurgensen might have been the best passer of all of them. Problem with both the Eagles the Washington teams he was on was that they didn’t have much of a running game or play much defense.
2liberal
@Suffern ACE:
I was an LA Rams fan from that time – mostly due to Bob Brown. I was then a high school OT and his physical ability and his attitude really caught my attention. But Roman Gabriel was never any kind of clutch QB – he only had 2 playoff games and lost to the Packers and Vikings, both as the visitor.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GabrRo00/gamelog//#stats_playoffs
SFAW
@Corner Stone:
He just misses DougJ. (And JaMarcus Russell, probably.)
But Chad Pennington – now THERE was a QB. And fortunately, he had an O-con who knew just how to use him. All the Jets needed was Rich Kotite at the helm, and they would have gone All. The. Way!
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Tree With Water:
It was 50/50, IMO. Walsh’s offense was implemented at the perfect time, as the NFL was just introducing its no contact rules. Walsh figured out how to take advantage of these rules by “passing to daylight”. Montana fit Walsh’s offense so well because he could make quick reads, and because of his relatively weak arm- which is why he slipped to the Niners in the third round- Montana wasn’t tempted to hold the ball too long while waiting for the receivers running deep routes to break open.
Ken Anderson was a helluva QB for the Bengals while Walsh was there, but the short passing game wouldn’t work with legal bump and run coverage. Anderson could have been Montana before Montana.
SFAW
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
And Bledsoe could have been Brady before Brady, if only he had the right Coach and the right team around him.
Tree With Water
Jeff George was signed as the Raiders starting QB because Al Davis respected a rifle arm. For the best of reasons.
Regrettably, George’s temperament doomed his career.
During a pre-season game as Oakland’s QB, he was dropped behind the line of scrimmage. George got to his feet screaming at his offensive line.
John Madden commented on-air, “no wonder he has been cut from other teams”. Or words to that effect. And Madden very rarely spoke in such terms about any player, if at all..
The moral being: QB’s who have their heads screwed on right are worth their weight in gold.
SFAW
@Tree With Water:
Yeah, Al was a great assessor of QBs, especially in his later years.
Tree With Water
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Anderson was (a less mobile) Montana. But Walsh wasn’t the Bengals head coach when they each shared a common goal.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@SFAW:
Ken Anderson had a pretty damned good record, and he did get the Bengals to the Super Bowl. Almost kept Montana from winning hos first ring. Anderson set the then-SB-records for completion percentage and number of completions in that game. He set the single-season record for completion percentage (70.6%) the next year. Then the wheels fell off the team, he got hurt, and eventually lost the starting gig to Boomer. Anderson played decently in the bump-and-run era, but he flourished in the no contact era. I got to watch him a lot from Michigan, before the Colts moved to Indy, because NBC and the the NFL decided that this was Bengals territory, and I’m telling you he was really fucking good.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Tree With Water:
No, but Walsh was the offensive coordinator. He was running a variation of Sid Gillman’s offense, featuring more downfield passing.
ETA: And I’m not so certain that Anderson was all that less mobile than Montana, at least in his younger days. Remember that when Anderson got to that SB in Pontiac, he was in his 11th year.
Tree With Water
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Paul Brown was coach of the Bengals, and for some reason made it a mission to impair offensive coordinator Walsh’s career. In other words, Paul Brown was an a dick. He deliberately attempted to subvert the career of a hall of fame caliber coach.
His best laid plans came to naught, suffice to say.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Tree With Water:
It was a case of “Keep your friends close and your enemies closer”. Brown wouldn’t let Walsh leave because he didn’t want to coach against him. That’s the way I’ve always heard it.
Tree With Water
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): I heard differently. Walsh reasonably enough expected Brown to name him as head coach upon Brown’s retirement. That didn’t happen, but the story wasn’t over. Walsh was not prepared for what happened next, because he was a decent enough guy. Paul Brown deliberately, and with malice aforethought, attempted to ruin Walsh’s reputation, even after Walsh had left the Bengals organization.
There’s was no “keep your friends closer” mentality in play.
Again, Paul Brown was simply an asshole’s asshole.
SFAW
@Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):
Anderson was a decent enough QB. (Yeah, I know he was somewhat better than “decent enough.”) But 70 percent completion doesn’t mean much to me. I seem to remember that Len Dawson always had a high completion percentage, and it certainly helped the Chiefs get to SB II and IV, but I don’t think he’s in anybody’s top 10. (And who knows how Alex Smith will turn out?)
So, having great stats is nice, and a high QB rating is as well, but there’s more to it than that. Chad Pennington’s rating kicked the crap out of Anderson’s – big deal.
Which is why Montana and Brady are where they are, vis-a-vis best QBs rankings.
RainyDay
The best way to prevent sinus problems and colds (and reduce the intensity of other bugs) when the seasons change is to use a humidifier in your home, especially in your bedroom. As soon as the humidity of summer dissipates, the mucus membranes dry out and can’t do their job of being the first line of defense against infections. If your home is really dry, you might want to also use natural saline nasal spray to help keep your mucus membranes moist. This is a cheap, natural, and easy way to have few to no illnesses. Our family hasn’t purchase cold medicine in years, even though the kids sit in dry heat classrooms at school.
Humidifiers and saline spray: Two best purchases you can make for your health.
Hunter
We’ve been having lovely weather in Chicago, but I’m smart enough not to brag about it to Betty.
Paul in KY
@Josie: Football is a lot tougher when you don’t have an NKVD-level cheating/spying operation going on.
Paul in KY
@Tommy: Teddy will have a great pro career. So will Bortles.
Paul in KY
@Tree With Water: Bart was calling all the plays. He (along with Bob Griese) were the ultimate game managers (IMO).