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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Thursday Morning Open Thread: The Glass Cliff

Thursday Morning Open Thread: The Glass Cliff

by Anne Laurie|  October 2, 20145:47 am| 140 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Vagina Outrage, Security Theatre

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secret service updates danziger

(Jeff Danziger’s website)

.

I’ve talked about the phenomenon before, but now Bryce Covert at TNR tells me it has a name:

On Wednesday, Julia Pierson, the first woman to ever lead the Secret Service in its nearly 150-year history, resigned her post amid heavy criticism over an intruder who was able to get as far as the East Room of the White House.

Reasonable people can disagree about whether, ultimately, she deserved to lose her job or whether anyone in charge during such an incident would have to resign. But it’s probably not pure chance that Pierson, who held that position for just a year-and-a-half, was a woman. Time and again, women are put in charge only when there’s a mess, and if they can’t engineer a quick cleanup, they’re shoved out the door. The academics Michelle Ryan and Alex Haslam even coined a term for this phenomenon: They call it getting pushed over the glass cliff.

Pierson was, in fact, explicitly brought in to clean up a mess. When President Obama nominated her last year, it was on the heels of news that Secret Service employees hired prostitutes in Cartagena, Colombia ahead of the president’s arrival. Pierson was meant to be a breath of fresh feminine air to clear out the macho cobwebs still dogging the agency…

… Some women are able to beat the odds and step away from the glass cliff… But many women on the glass cliff simply fall off. Female CEOs, for example, are more likely to end up forced out than men. And when they leave, they are likely to get replaced by a man. As for the Secret Service, it turns out that Joseph Clancy will be Pierson’s temporary replacement, even though he was in charge of the presidential detail the night the Salahis slipped past checkpoints. Make of that what you will.

Back in 2008, when random cab drivers or grocery clerks made vulgar comments about the Democratic primary choices (ask Cole about the trapper joke!), I’d “joke” right back about how once a rich white frat kid like Dubya had completely fubar’d his latest residence, it was always a woman or a not-white man who got called in to clean up the mess. You’d be surprised how many people agreed with that reasoning…
***********
That being said, what’s on the agenda as we start another day?

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Reader Interactions

140Comments

  1. 1.

    Alex S.

    October 2, 2014 at 6:13 am

    I’m waiting for the Republicans to use this resignation to blame Democrats for the ‘war on women’. However, being a woman had nothing to do with it, she had to go.

  2. 2.

    satby

    October 2, 2014 at 6:15 am

    Same as it ever was.

  3. 3.

    raven

    October 2, 2014 at 6:30 am

    Hittin that monin hike with the princess and critters.

  4. 4.

    OzarkHillbilly

    October 2, 2014 at 6:37 am

    Let’s see… half a days work yesterday, this morning the shoulder is killing me, the hands barely work at all, and for some strange reason, my right foot has been spasming with pain at random moments without warning since about 2 am.

    Yep, all is normal so it’s off to STL for another joyous day of old plaster dust, mold, mildew and sawdust. By the end of this week my lungs should have aged another 20 years and feel as bad as the rest of me.

  5. 5.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 2, 2014 at 6:56 am

    I got a rejection from a theatre that had asked me to submit a full-length play for consideration. They said the cast of 3 men and 2 women was too small. Heh. I’ve been told small-cast plays are preferable because they cost less, but apparently they want everyone to get in on the act.

  6. 6.

    John S.

    October 2, 2014 at 6:58 am

    I don’t disagree that the glass cliff exists, but the Secret Service is a poor example. Whoever was heading them up would have been forced to resign, regardless of their gender.

  7. 7.

    Betty Cracker

    October 2, 2014 at 7:06 am

    What John S. said. But yeah, it does set you up for failure if your only opportunities come in the middle of clusterfucks.

    I was listening to one of the MSNBC babblers last night and heard that the Secret Service organization is fairly small for a government agency — less than 5K people. If that’s true, it shouldn’t be impossible to turn a group of that size around in fairly short order, particularly for an insider who already understands the way things work.

  8. 8.

    Aimai

    October 2, 2014 at 7:09 am

    @Mustang Bobby: add a greek chorus.

  9. 9.

    Aimai

    October 2, 2014 at 7:14 am

    @John S.: i guess i think its overdetermined and structural. The tendency used to be to bring in an older, prominent, retired, white guy with prestige. He wouldnt “get fired” he would be given x amount of time to clean up and hand over. Lots of time. Now they give these jobs to bright, new, fringe –i,e women or minorities–candidates with no personal wealth, institutional power, or otherways of exerting control over a fucked up situation and then they sit back and wait to pounce.

  10. 10.

    BillinGlendaleCA

    October 2, 2014 at 7:14 am

    It’s not the glass cliff, but it reminds me of this:

    http://www.theonion.com/articles/black-man-given-nations-worst-job,6439/

  11. 11.

    TheMightyTrowel

    October 2, 2014 at 7:15 am

    @Aimai: Or, depending on the play, a Geek Chorus. Can you find anything to rhyme with Spiderman?

  12. 12.

    Mustang Bobby

    October 2, 2014 at 7:17 am

    @Aimai: I’d be interested in seeing what the theatre would do with Waiting for Godot.

  13. 13.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 2, 2014 at 7:23 am

    @Mustang Bobby: Rejection sucks. Yeah, you learn to deal, but it still sucks.

  14. 14.

    Kay

    October 2, 2014 at 7:24 am

    I’m sort of embarrassed about the SecSer because I saw them in action in Ohio in 2012 and they seemed very professional and on the ball to me. I didn’t know how elaborate the security around a presidential visit was. I watched the whole thing at the Toledo airport, for 4 hours. I thought they went over and above anything I would have imagined. They contacted us days ahead, took driver’s licenses, did background checks, there were dogs and sheriff’s deputies and lines of cars with their hoods up for the dogs to search. It went on and on and on.

    Apparently I know absolutely nothing about security, and am also easily impressed :)

  15. 15.

    satby

    October 2, 2014 at 7:36 am

    Still trying to catch up on everything that never got done this summer because the job from hell kept me all hours after they lost 2 of their original staff of 5. And when I asked to go back to my former hours once they hired someone else, they announced that my note would be considered my letter of resignation because they had decided they needed a “just under full” time person; I was very specific when hired that I also had a job as a tutor AND my own business; as well as a lot of rescue animals so I only wanted about 24 hours a week.

    The irony was I lost the family I was tutoring the same week, because the late hours I was available caused by my job was not working for them.
    So now I have time ;)
    When it rains it pours.

  16. 16.

    Betsy

    October 2, 2014 at 7:40 am

    Elizabeth Warren – they wouldn’t make her head of the CPFB, just have the idea, do the the thinking and work to set it up, then they give the position to someone else. I remember thinking “oh right let the women do all the work but the leadership role is for a man”

  17. 17.

    Matt McIrvin

    October 2, 2014 at 7:48 am

    @John S.: That’s the point of the article, that they brought in the woman at the point where there was a high chance of failure.

  18. 18.

    NotMax

    October 2, 2014 at 8:02 am

    Granted that it’s only two days into October, but “glass cliff” is gonna be hard to surpass for insipid grammatical construction of the month.

    Meanwhile, just discovered that a slow leak began under the bathroom sink while I was away. Wotta mess to clean out everything that was soaked in the cabinet there. 2 in the a.m. here, and not up to doing more than shutting off the water right now and pinpointing and dealing with it in the daytime.

  19. 19.

    Baud

    October 2, 2014 at 8:09 am

    Thanks god Danziger’s kid does use watermelon-flavored toothpaste.

  20. 20.

    Belafon

    October 2, 2014 at 8:12 am

    @Betty Cracker: Obviously we’re talking about Obama here (that’s sarcasm). But it does kind of remind me of his situation: Elected because Bush really fucked shit up, but the solution to dealing with his fuckups is not to do the exact opposite.

  21. 21.

    lol

    October 2, 2014 at 8:19 am

    @Betsy:

    Backfired pretty badly. They struck her down and she came more powerful than they could imagine.

  22. 22.

    satby

    October 2, 2014 at 8:23 am

    @NotMax: ick! sorry to hear that.
    @satby: I should have mentioned I’m happy to be out of that job and I have an interview next week for a new one that pays more. I’m just feeling overwhelmed with all the stuff I wasn’t getting done over the summer that I now have to try to do before winter. Fall is going by fast!

  23. 23.

    lol

    October 2, 2014 at 8:25 am

    This is an interesting new angle to the Secret Service scandal: agent hits on Romney staffers, discloses Obama’s schedule to impress her.

    In the closing weeks of the 2012 campaign, a Secret Service agent was on the ground in a key swing state to coordinate security ahead of several campaign stops by the President. The agent, who was married, made advances towards a Romney campaign staff member.

    InsideSources spoke with two staffers who witnessed the events in question. Each spoke on condition of anonymity and independently confirmed the details.

    In one particular incident at a bar in late October 2012, the Secret Service agent, who had a number of drinks during the meeting, unprompted and in an apparent attempt to impress one of the staffers, began providing details of President Obama’s schedule. The information included times and locations of the President’s events in the final days of the election. The President’s campaign would not release these details of the President’s schedule publicly until several days later.

  24. 24.

    Patrick

    October 2, 2014 at 8:37 am

    Time and again, women are put in charge only when there’s a mess, and if they can’t engineer a quick cleanup, they’re shoved out the door. The academics Michelle Ryan and Alex Haslam even coined a term for this phenomenon: They call it getting pushed over the glass cliff.

    The Secret Service wasn’t telling the truth about the fence jumper. They were withholding information from Obama. Irregardless of whether she was able to fix their mess in 18 months, do you really think she should have been able to keep her job when you can’t trust what she says?

    I don’t know if there is something called a glass cliff or not. But it sure doesn’t apply to the SS mess.

  25. 25.

    Litlebritdifrnt

    October 2, 2014 at 8:38 am

    I keep missing the Hong Kong threads so I thought I would park this here. When I was serving in Hong Kong in 1988 the transition phase was already in full swing. In fact I received the Herbert Lott Trust Fund Award for my work on “several highly classified and urgent papers on the future of Hong Kong”. I said at the time that while people were worrying about what effect it would have on Hong Kong when China took over, what people should be worrying about was what effect it would have on China when Hong Kong took over. Looks like I was right.

  26. 26.

    Betsy

    October 2, 2014 at 8:38 am

    @lol: also a fairly standard part of the trope.

    Imagine if women were given the same privileges, deference, and respect that white men are. There wouldn’t be anything left.

  27. 27.

    MomSense

    October 2, 2014 at 8:40 am

    I saw this story this morning about an ambulance driver in Syria who is caring for about 150 war abandoned cats. I wish it were a longer story and we could find out how to help this guy.

    http://www.reuters.com/video/2014/09/26/snapshot-of-compassion-as-man-cares-for?videoId=344566811

  28. 28.

    Belafon

    October 2, 2014 at 8:44 am

    @Patrick: Except your missing the other end: She was brought in to fix the mess that the SS had become after the scandals outside the country. Cleaning up that kind of culture – where they feel that they can hide information even from the president – in a place where you can’t just fire everyone all at once – it takes a while to find the right people – wasn’t going to happen quickly. Then things went south before she could finish, and had to be let go.

    Once again, it’s not the fact that she was fired, it’s that she, as the first woman in the position, was expected to fix a huge mess, and because she’ll be fired early, we’ll probably hear about how women can’t run the SS.

  29. 29.

    debbie

    October 2, 2014 at 8:44 am

    @Patrick:

    Agreed, but you just know the intrinsic ineffectiveness of female leadership will be used extensively by the GOP to bludgeon us all.

  30. 30.

    Napoleon

    October 2, 2014 at 8:46 am

    Bull Shit Annie.

    The SS under her issued a complete lie of an account of what happened to the public, which is 100% on her watch and under her leadership. She got off easy. Obama should have gone on national TV and publicly humiliated her and fire her. She absolutely deserved it for that reason alone.

  31. 31.

    Patrick

    October 2, 2014 at 8:46 am

    @MomSense:

    I wonder if it would be worthwhile at all to contact pet food manufacturers (Nestlé Purina PetCare, Iams, etc) and inform them of this situation. Perhaps they would be willing to help! It’s worth a try, at least!

  32. 32.

    Botsplainer

    October 2, 2014 at 8:48 am

    I’ve seen two presidents, Clinton and Bush.

    One Clinton sighting and handshake was outdoors, and the only thing between him and a completely unchecked, unvetted crowd were stanchions and a rope. The SS guys had zero control over that event and looked as though they had enough cortisol surging through their bodies to surf on.

    Second Bubba sighting was by accident. He was in town on a fundraiser. I was simply walking point A to point B, and saw somebody I knew standing on a corner. I asked what he was doing, and he replied “the President is in town. They always take this route to the Convention Center, and I want to see him”. I waited too, and five minutes later, a vanishingly tiny motorcade comes through with the limo. Bubba was yukking it up in the back seat, grinned and tossed me a wave. It didn’t seem real secure to me – nobody was stationed at that part of the route, and really bad stuff could have happened right at that corner.

    I went to some event that Bush spoke at in 2003 or thereabouts. It was kind of a mass event but was also allegedly limited to party faithful, and wasn’t particularly tied to donations, so I scored tickets for me and the kids. There was practically no control over that event, and we only got cursory wands. The only memorable thing that occurred was that I was ready to kill some pervert 30 something attendee whose eyes were drilling holes in my 9 year old. I started to move toward him to inquire impolitely about the source of his problem; he wisely chose that moment to vanish.

  33. 33.

    FlipYrWhig

    October 2, 2014 at 8:50 am

    @Betsy: Who is “they” in this story?

  34. 34.

    Patrick

    October 2, 2014 at 8:50 am

    @Belafon:

    Once again, it’s not the fact that she was fired, it’s that she, as the first woman in the position, was expected to fix a huge mess, and because she’ll be fired early, we’ll probably hear about how women can’t run the SS.

    Perhaps. But I agree with Nancy Pelosi, who called for her resignation. And to me, it’s not about whether women can’t run the SS. I just want an outsider (which she clearly wasn’t) to clean it up.

  35. 35.

    MomSense

    October 2, 2014 at 8:51 am

    @Patrick:

    That’s a good idea.

  36. 36.

    Soprano2

    October 2, 2014 at 9:04 am

    They won’t like it but it will probably take an outsider to clean up the mess that the SS has become, because I’m sure it’s an insular “old boy’s club”. As for the glass cliff, my husband & I have talked about that before. My theory is that they appoint a woman or a minority as the scapegoat because they know the problem can’t get fixed quickly and there’s a high probability that the person who gets the job will be fired or forced to resign.Then, when this inevitably happens, they can push the scapegoat out the door and put in the white man they wanted all along, who will be given plenty of time and resources to fix the problem. They didn’t want to put the white guy up there first because they knew it was such a big mess that eventually whoever was put in charge of it would be fired or have to resign. It’s a plus for them that they can then point to the failure of the woman or minority and say “See, those people can’t run things, you can’t put them in charge”. I think that’s why there’s a woman at the head of GM right now, but she’s defied the odds and is still there. I also think that’s why Melissa Mayer is running Yahoo right now.

  37. 37.

    Belafon

    October 2, 2014 at 9:05 am

    @Patrick: Yeah, but you’re probably not the kind of person who would announce that you are going to do everything in your power to make the first black president a one term candidate, attempt to screw him over at every turn, and then blame him for failing to get anything done.

  38. 38.

    rikyrah

    October 2, 2014 at 9:08 am

    Does anyone remotely believe that Barack Obama would have had the opening to become President if George W. Bush hadn’t of been so horrendous?

    I remember during 2007 that folks said that it wasn’t ‘the right time’ for Barack Obama.

    I had to laugh because I have never heard ‘Black Person’ and ‘ The right time’ used in the same sentence.

    Black people know this.

    Barack Obama knew this.

    So being elected when the circumstances of this country were so dire wasn’t a shock…

    On some level Senator Obama knew that’s what created HIS shot.

  39. 39.

    Patrick

    October 2, 2014 at 9:09 am

    @Belafon:

    True. But I rather have the SS run competently so that our President can be safe. I think that’s a tad more important than proving that a woman can run the SS. There is no doubt a woman can run it. But I do have my doubts whether an insider can clean it up. She was an insider.

  40. 40.

    rikyrah

    October 2, 2014 at 9:10 am

    The Secret Service wasn’t telling the truth about the fence jumper. They were withholding information from Obama. Irregardless of whether she was able to fix their mess in 18 months, do you really think she should have been able to keep her job when you can’t trust what she says

    The President did not find out that he was in an elevator with an ARMED three-time ex-felon UNTIL THE DAY THE STORY CAME OUT IN THE PAPER.

    THE PRESIDENT!!

    She had to go.

  41. 41.

    Lurking Canadian

    October 2, 2014 at 9:11 am

    In Canada, we would call this the Kim Campbell Effect, after our first female prime minister, selected for the role by the PC party just in time to be the figurehead to receive the electoral drubbing Brian Mulroney spent the preceding nine years earning them.

  42. 42.

    Botsplainer

    October 2, 2014 at 9:14 am

    @Soprano2:

    I’m sure it’s an insular “old boy’s club”.

    Sadly. Because it is a specialized skill set and requires a lot of specific knowledge about resources and methods, the director would have to come from within by necessity, which means that the culture self-perpetuates. Perhaps a middle ground can be found – a detail discipline and standards review assistant director who answers directly to the White House Chief of Staff, and whose decisions are binding.

    You could pick some starchy retired career combat army or marine sergeant for that one.

  43. 43.

    JPL

    October 2, 2014 at 9:16 am

    @rikyrah: You’re correct that the Director had to go.

  44. 44.

    hoodie

    October 2, 2014 at 9:17 am

    @Napoleon: The issue is not whether she should be fired. She obviously should because either (1) she lied about the incident or (2) doesn’t have enough control of the organization to get the right information. That still doesn’t get the heart of the problem. You have evidence of a trend of women and minorities being put in these situations, while white males consistently fail upwards. This is another case of that. Obama’s biggest fault may have been putting her in charge of an agency with what appears to be a testosterone problem allegedly based a simplistic assumption that all that was needed was some estrogen. What was needed was some selective castration. Putting a 30-year insider from the agency in charge probably would not have facilitated that because she’d be too predisposed to cut her compadres some slack instead of cutting off their nuts.

    All that said, people are acting like this is the worst failure in recorded history, which is ridiculous. Christ, the Secret Service let Lee Harvey Oswald splatter Jack Kennedy’s brain all over a Dallas street in 1963 and let a schlub walking down the street put a slug into Ronnie Reagan in 1981. You know, back when the Secret Service was supposedly an impenetrable wall and didn’t suffer under the yoke of Obama’s “colossal lack of management judgment.” Not exactly al Queda in either case.

  45. 45.

    S-Curve

    October 2, 2014 at 9:18 am

    Seems weird to me that, in Danziger’s comic, Gonzalez is watching Rachel Maddow. Is he supposed to be some kind of lefty nut? Or is it just that Maddow has been hitting this story so hard?

    Reruns of “24” seem like a better bet.

  46. 46.

    Tommy

    October 2, 2014 at 9:20 am

    @Botsplainer:I would think that is very accurate. Not a lot of people in the world that could do that job. Internal hire. But as you said the culture self-perpetuates.

  47. 47.

    mai naem

    October 2, 2014 at 9:22 am

    @Belafon: Obama being elected was what I thought of as well. Actually, you could look at Hillary and Obama both in the same way. Diane Rheem had somebody on yesterday who had been on the SS and was not the wingnut guy who I’ve heard interviewed on other shows. He mentioned how no harm did come to the president and how the SS had planned contingencies. Both Diane and the other guest jumped on him for that. I just would like to know what kind of stuff happened before Pierson took over and I’m not talking about Cartagena but actual close misses like the elevator guy and the WH jumper. She kind of hung herself with her testimony about the fence jumper not making it past the door.

  48. 48.

    Bystander

    October 2, 2014 at 9:23 am

    I guess we should all just be grateful that Obummer’s attempt to chickify the Secret Service is FAIL.

  49. 49.

    Belafon

    October 2, 2014 at 9:25 am

    Maybe the intruder should become the head of the Secret Service.

  50. 50.

    geg6

    October 2, 2014 at 9:31 am

    @Botsplainer:

    I have found this whole episode to be so disturbing simply because I’ve been around Obama and seen the massive security measures. Three times I’ve been to events where he has been and I couldn’t have been more impressed by the level of security I had to go through. Twice were at large rallies which had so many security hoops that both started quite a bit later than expected because there were very large crowds and it takes a lot of time to pat down and wand all those people. The other time was quite close up at the first speech he gave after he got his first nomination. I was invited due to being very active in the primary campaign here and actually got to meet and shake hands with the Obamas and Bidens. They interviewed me, they came and spoke to my bosses/relatives/friends, and I still went through a huge security rigamarole the evening of the event, as did everyone else who got to go backstage. I’ve worked for campaigns in the past and been to speeches and rallies for other candidates (Carter, Clinton and Kerry), but I never went through the stuff I went through at all of the Obama events.

  51. 51.

    Napoleon

    October 2, 2014 at 9:33 am

    @S-Curve:

    I took it to mean it was already playing on the TV

  52. 52.

    satby

    October 2, 2014 at 9:35 am

    @Bystander: I think you’re looking for Townhall. it’s over there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  53. 53.

    rea

    October 2, 2014 at 9:36 am

    @S-Curve: in Danziger’s comic, Gonzalez is watching Rachel Maddow. Is he supposed to be some kind of lefty nut

    It’s what’s on TV at the White House.

  54. 54.

    Napoleon

    October 2, 2014 at 9:41 am

    @hoodie:

    Actually that is the issue, whether she should have been fired. If she should have been everything else you say is irrelevant. She was fired and deserved to be fired on the merits because of the BS press release they put out, which you know was read by her word for word and approved for release. You are right, either she lied or, and I would phrase the second part of your intro differently, she did not have enough control of the organization to get the right information and either did not recognize that as an issue or did and did not take proper steps to try and vet the information in such a way to make sure it was accurate or simply not put the information out into the public. All of those things are in her control and she f-ed it up royally.

  55. 55.

    MomSense

    October 2, 2014 at 9:41 am

    The DSCC, DCCC, and DGA really need to hire the Obama digital team. The fundraising emails they send out are horrible and not at all targeted to their audiences.

    My oldest son is getting a ton of fundraising emails and last night my oldest told me that he feels like Nancy Pelosi broke up with him via email. My kids are doing phonebanking shifts and I think have made some small donations but they would probably be more engaged and have more friends helping if all the asks weren’t so depressing and guilt ridden.

    Also, too I think the Dems are making a big mistake in not having the President campaign for them. It’s not like the Republicans haven’t put every single Dem candidate in a tree with POTUS k-i-s-s-i-n-g and casting the deciding vote for ObamaCare. At least when you get him on the campaign trail you get energy and good messaging.

  56. 56.

    Tommy

    October 2, 2014 at 9:42 am

    @geg6: I lived in DC for many years and went to a lot of events where the President was in attendance. I have no doubt that the President is well protected. I can’t speak to Obama, since I was there with Clinton and Bush, but if the security is the same or even higher, as you seem to say, then I feel he is very safe.

    This would be a time where I am happy I got rid of cable so I don’t have to listen to folks yell and scream about this or that. Does the SS seem to have some problems, yes. But as I said yesterday if I was fearful for my safety and I could call anybody to come aid me, the SS would still be at the top of the list.

  57. 57.

    Botsplainer

    October 2, 2014 at 9:44 am

    @satby:

    I think you’re looking for Townhall. it’s over there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Clownhall is for rookies. That was advanced – think a combo of Breitbart and Gateway Pundit.

  58. 58.

    Iowa Old Lady

    October 2, 2014 at 9:47 am

    @rikyrah: Lying is a real problem, but if I were head of the SS, I wouldn’t report every problem to the president either. It’s my job to take care of such matters. What I’d do if in had the job, which god forbid, is set up specs for when I tell him. Guy running through the WH would almost certainly make the cut. Guy in the elevator might not.

  59. 59.

    Sherparick

    October 2, 2014 at 9:49 am

    After downplaying and pooh-pooohing the Ebola epidemic while hyping ISIS as the greatest threat since the International Communist menace, I expect Faux and the wing-nut right to go to DEFCON 4 on Ebola now, as the story combines so man tendrils in the Conservative lizard brain (race, since Ebola comes from Africa, foreign, and “plague” brought into pure White America by the Dusty Other).” See how Glenn Greenwald hero Rand Paul responds on the Glenn Beck show:

    http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2014/10/rand-paul-is-ebola-truther-media.html#links

  60. 60.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    October 2, 2014 at 9:50 am

    “Black man abuses white woman”

    Never saw that coming.

    Anyway, do look back an read the “lack of leadership” in Kessler’s Political light in the light of the director’s gender.

  61. 61.

    ...now I try to be amused

    October 2, 2014 at 9:50 am

    @rikyrah:

    On some level Senator Obama knew that’s what created HIS shot.

    I wonder how many Obama-hating Bushies (redundant, I know) recognize that their boy made Obama’s election possible — nay, necessary.

  62. 62.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    October 2, 2014 at 9:55 am

    @Sherparick: so Paul the libertarian is all for the governments is the solution now. Shouldn’t he be advocating a freemarket solution of sending US army trained mercenary doctors to Africa since is modern medicine as no Louis Pastor?

  63. 63.

    Tommy

    October 2, 2014 at 10:03 am

    @Sherparick: I really wish I didn’t follow your link. I like to think I know what I don’t know. Ebola is a perfect example. I guess Paul is a Doctor so he thinks he knows this or that. But those comments you linked to shows I am not sure he read Wikipedia on the topic.

  64. 64.

    Cervantes

    October 2, 2014 at 10:05 am

    @Betty Cracker: Closer to 7,000 employees.

  65. 65.

    Violet

    October 2, 2014 at 10:11 am

    Apparently There is some kind of Nate Silver-Sam Wang feud. Nate Silver called out Sam Wang in a column, but it sounds like it’s been going on. Twitter dust up after that.

    Silver declined to comment to TPM about why he had critiqued Wang publicly, when it is his self-described habit not to, or on why he had not engaged with Wang directly. But Silver did tell TPM that he believed Wang had misrepresented their disagreement. It is not a “polls vs. fundamentals” debate, he said, and he praised polls-only models like the Huffington Post’s Pollster and Real Clear Politics as good at what they do.

    “First of all, I think it’s very misleading and I would use the word deceptive for him to claim that this is all about polls vs. fundamentals,” Silver told TPM in a phone interview. “The other big problem: He is not going through the rigor that most other people do in being empirical, meaning trying to justify things based on past election results.”

  66. 66.

    Bystander

    October 2, 2014 at 10:17 am

    I see my attempt at flatfooted comedy wasn’t flatfooted enough for some.

  67. 67.

    raven

    October 2, 2014 at 10:18 am

    Supervisors who had mapped out the security plan said they were taken aback when Pierson, who worked during high school at Walt Disney World as a costumed character and park attendant, said: “We need to be more like Disney World. We need to be more friendly, inviting.”

  68. 68.

    lamh36

    October 2, 2014 at 10:18 am

    @FlipYrWhig: “they” is the Obama administration who hired and recommend her.
    So what’s not being said is the “Obama” hired her even though they “knew” it was all a bit mess? So is the article implying the Obama administration figures she’d fail?

  69. 69.

    Shortstop

    October 2, 2014 at 10:18 am

    Metapolling was a lot more fun when it wasn’t about personalities. Nate Silver’s work is extremely interesting. Nate Silver the man is not nearly as interesting as he thinks he is. You’re not the product, dude, so sit down.

  70. 70.

    Cervantes

    October 2, 2014 at 10:19 am

    @Lurking Canadian:

    In Canada, we would call this the Kim Campbell Effect, after our first female prime minister, selected for the role by the PC party just in time to be the figurehead to receive the electoral drubbing Brian Mulroney spent the preceding nine years earning them.

    True enough, but you keep sending your losers down here to Cambridge, where they embarrass themselves regularly. We tolerate(d) Campbell and Ignatieff. Who’s next? And could you please keep them there?

  71. 71.

    raven

    October 2, 2014 at 10:19 am

    Link police

  72. 72.

    kindness

    October 2, 2014 at 10:20 am

    I don’t know, I think any head of the Secret Service at this point would have been asked to resign after the blunders have come to light. Wouldn’t have mattered if it was a male or a female.

    Yes women CEO’s take the fall when men don’t. I’m not a supporter of such blatant inequality. I don’t think this was one of those cases though.

  73. 73.

    Aimai

    October 2, 2014 at 10:21 am

    @MomSense: yup. The pelosi emails are hysterical in every sense of the word.

  74. 74.

    hoodie

    October 2, 2014 at 10:23 am

    @Napoleon: How is that an issue if everyone agrees she should be fired? Thinking that’s the issue enables ignoring the systemic problems that lead to the failure in question, which is a guy getting into the White House and not what the Secret Service says about how far he got. That superficial analysis won’t risk revealing the tendency of a power establishment to grab the first opportunity to dump the problems they’ve been kicking down the road for years on the first available woman or minority to have a convenient sacrifice available for the volcano. Some middle-aged white dude will be hired to clean up the mess they can blame on the fuckin’ broad and, of course, nothing or very little will actually be done because they won’t deal with any of the root problems, even if the new guy is on the level. No, it will be daddy’s back in charge, and the GOP and media folks will wipe their hands of the matter and head off to creating hysteria about Ebola. Is anyone going to look very deeply into why Julia Pierson was chosen, whether the security problem was attributable to her or to funding, culture or some other factor that set her up to fail? Don’t kid yourself; just look at Hillary and Benghazi. After lying low a while, SS agents will go back to fucking Colombian prostitutes or some equivalent thereof. They’ll just do a better job of covering up like back in the the good old days when Dave Powers was lining up dates for Jack Kennedy.

  75. 75.

    CONGRATULATIONS!

    October 2, 2014 at 10:24 am

    Obama should have gone on national TV and publicly humiliated her and fire her.

    @Napoleon: I fervently hope you are never in a position where you supervise anyone. There is never a time and place where such conduct is appropriate on the part of an employer, no matter how egregious the fuckup.

  76. 76.

    Tommy

    October 2, 2014 at 10:30 am

    I am fearful my district will elect this guy. Mike Bost. Watch this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhbRcDZiJJc

    He does stuff like this all the time. The polls have the Democrat, Enyart up by a few points. Heck no Republican has held this seat in several generations. We might elect “blue dogs” but we don’t elect Republicans in my district. NEVER. I fear we might this time. I can’t turn on the TV, radio, Hulu (yes Hulu) and not see an ad for Bost. The RNC is all over this race.

    I hope people vote or I fear we’ll send somebody to Washington that is as crazy as Steve King or Michele Bachman.

  77. 77.

    Violet

    October 2, 2014 at 10:35 am

    @raven: @raven: From your link, as far as the funding of the Secret Service:

    Lawmakers were also annoyed by the administration’s budget request for this year for an agency that has claimed to be chronically underfunded.

    Homeland Security requested $1.49 billion in operating funds for the Secret Service, a $60 million dip from last fiscal year. But even spending-conscious Republicans said that was too much. So Congress instead agreed to a rare increase over the administration’s request, giving the agency $1.53 billion.

    They allocated more money than requested! That’s pretty unusual.

  78. 78.

    Violet

    October 2, 2014 at 10:38 am

    @Tommy: What are you doing to ensure people do vote in your district?

  79. 79.

    Botsplainer

    October 2, 2014 at 10:41 am

    On another topic, maybe we can do a kickstarter to buy one of these AR15 receiver printers for a Ferguson community group.

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/for-a-mere-1200-you-can-now-outfit-an-army-with-as-many-working-ar-15s-as-you-want/

  80. 80.

    Nicole

    October 2, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Since it’s an open thread- pet advice, please. My stafffy just came home from CCL surgery yesterday and in the 60 minutes I left her alone since then (in her crate, of course) she managed to chew off the plastic cone of shame and lick her incision. Any suggestions on alternatives? Hind leg incision. I’m freaking because I have to go out for a few hours later and I don’t want her to undo $2600 worth of surgery, seeing as how I’m not sure how we’re paying for it as it is.

    Dog can’t learn to roll over, but she can escape a cone of shame. I HATE selective brilliance.

  81. 81.

    Tommy

    October 2, 2014 at 10:44 am

    @Violet: Gave him some money and door to door. I am known as the “hippie liberal” in my small rural town. But I am not so sure that is a bad thing. I am the guy that when my garden produces too much I give it away. Try to learn the names of children in the area. I hope me talking to them helps.

  82. 82.

    slag

    October 2, 2014 at 10:45 am

    We’ve been making jokes about this phenomenon in pop culture for years. Specifically regarding the fact that, if a woman or a black man (never a black woman, of course) is in a lead role, you know the sci-fi movie is going to be a dystopian one.

    It’s almost as if writers say, “Well, the world’s ending, what more do we have to lose?”.

  83. 83.

    gluon1

    October 2, 2014 at 10:49 am

    The example of this “glass cliff” I was thinking about, admittedly because I knew and liked her, was Liz Birnbaum who was effectively fired from heading MMS over the BP oil spill when she had been in charge for just 9 months with directions to clean the bureau up.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._Elizabeth_Birnbaum
    (I have forgotten how to hyperlink text because I am dumb)

  84. 84.

    Belafon

    October 2, 2014 at 10:54 am

    @slag: How many sci-fi movies aren’t dystopian?

  85. 85.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 2, 2014 at 10:55 am

    @Violet: But even spending-conscious Republicans said that was too much

    You know, the people who won’t cut farm subsidies and put two wars on the national credit card? Those “spending conscious Republicans”

  86. 86.

    Seanly

    October 2, 2014 at 10:56 am

    Hmm, I wonder if this is what is happening to my company. We’re an engineering firm in the Fortune 500 now helmed by a woman (not many fit this profile). She’s now stuck righting the ship & keeping creditors happy which means trimming staff. Given the lack of diversity (color & gender) in STEM-related companies, I thought it was great for us to name a woman as a CEO. Now I’ve been wondering if she was being set up for failure while the previous CEO deployed his huge golden parachute.

    The glass cliff can even be extended to the US political climate. We bring in these mean-drunk Republican daddies to beat us all up & make us grovel in the mud. Then when the economy is in the shitter because their ideas are terrible, we bring the gentle Democratic mommies to make everything better. When the world’s not set back on the precisely correct axis, we get mad at mommy for not fixing everything daddy smashed in his alcoholic rage.

  87. 87.

    Belafon

    October 2, 2014 at 10:56 am

    @gluon1: Select your text and hit the link button, which will pop up a dialog box to paste the link. Or you can put [a href=”link”]text[/a] – with angle brackets instead of [] – if you want to do it manually.

  88. 88.

    The Dangerman

    October 2, 2014 at 10:58 am

    I think this is where I voice an opinion (one way or another) and then get shouted down by the intellectually lazy argument that I can’t have an opinion because I’m not a woman. Not falling for THAT trap again.

  89. 89.

    Mnemosyne

    October 2, 2014 at 10:58 am

    @Nicole:

    I wonder if a soft e-collar would be harder for her to chew through than a hard plastic one. It might at least buy you a little more time.

  90. 90.

    Cervantes

    October 2, 2014 at 10:59 am

    @Nicole:

    Dog can’t learn to roll over, but she can escape a cone of shame.

    If you were a dog, which would you admit having learned?

  91. 91.

    Belafon

    October 2, 2014 at 11:02 am

    @The Dangerman : You can learn. :)

  92. 92.

    Kathleen

    October 2, 2014 at 11:05 am

    @Botsplainer: While she may have been an excellent agent, she may have not possessed the leadership, organilzational or political skills needed to determine root cause problems and navigate/negotiate required changes. Leading a highly visible organization embroiled in scandal makes it all the more difficult. I don’t think she had the chops for what she was required to do. Nothing against her per se, but not right person at the right time. She had to go.

    I think your comment nailed it.

  93. 93.

    slag

    October 2, 2014 at 11:05 am

    @Belafon: There are more than a few. The most popular recent ones are probably Star Trek.

  94. 94.

    slag

    October 2, 2014 at 11:09 am

    As for the Secret Service, it turns out that Joseph Clancy will be Pierson’s temporary replacement, even though he was in charge of the presidential detail the night the Salahis slipped past checkpoints. Make of that what you will.

    I actually think she should be fired. But I think this guy should be fired as well. Instead, he’s getting temporarily promoted. Surprise.

  95. 95.

    Napoleon

    October 2, 2014 at 11:11 am

    @CONGRATULATIONS!:

    I was exaggerating to make a point. Her screw up, and it was her screw up, on that one issue was flagrantly firing worthy.

    @hoodie:

    All of that is irrelevant. We are not talking about bringing her in to clean something up then blaming her when it is not cleaned up to someone’s satisfaction. We are talking about her personally participating, whether intentionally or through stupidity, in the cover up of a problem at the entity. Get back to me when you have an example of “Ms. X was brought in to improve student graduation rates in Rust Belt City Y from .02% to 99% and she failed to do so she must go” and not the analog example to the present situation of “Ms. X, superintendent of Rust Belt City Y, released a BS report that her teachers were not changing answers on test on a systematic basis when they were so so she must go”.

  96. 96.

    Belafon

    October 2, 2014 at 11:12 am

    @slag: Clancy’s coming out of retirement.

  97. 97.

    Belafon

    October 2, 2014 at 11:14 am

    @slag: Thanks. I think seeing the word dystopian triggered images such as Blade Runner, Edge of Tomorrow, and the new one, Maze Runner, to go along with I am Legend and Hunger Games. My bad.

  98. 98.

    Roger Moore

    October 2, 2014 at 11:17 am

    @Violet:
    Wang made some criticisms of Silver’s (and others’) “polls plus fundamentals” approach, basically saying that their fundamentals baked some pro-Republican tilt into their predictions that he felt was unjustified. Silver has responded by counter-criticizing Wang’s approach, apparently including some clearly false criticism, mostly in confusing Wang’s short-term snapshot and long-term prediction models.

  99. 99.

    Botsplainer

    October 2, 2014 at 11:18 am

    @Napoleon:

    I hate you, but will credit you for being right this time.

    She played along to get along, and it cost her her dream job.

  100. 100.

    jibeaux

    October 2, 2014 at 11:22 am

    @Mustang Bobby: This is not my area of expertise, but it is a community theatre type project, where the actors don’t get paid? They may just have a lot more interest in roles than they have roles for. My son’s middle school is putting on a production written by a drama teacher that does sound genuinely good, but I think the good script was the third selling point after “lots of roles” and “royalty-free.”

  101. 101.

    shortstop

    October 2, 2014 at 11:22 am

    @The Dangerman: As hard as it may be for you to face — and you’ve demonstrated day after day that you’re simply incapable of twigging it — everything is not about you, you, you and your precious, precious wittle feelings.

    God, what a tool you consistently are.

  102. 102.

    shortstop

    October 2, 2014 at 11:24 am

    @Nicole: This one’s tough because you don’t want to get it in the incision, but we’ve had some luck using bitter apple (available in pet stores) around, not too close to, hot spots. They really do not like the taste of it.

  103. 103.

    satby

    October 2, 2014 at 11:25 am

    @Bystander: there’s a snark tag for that, but I figured you were actually joking. You didn’t get that I was too.

  104. 104.

    skerry

    October 2, 2014 at 11:26 am

    @slag: Worse, IMHO. That guy left following the problems with the South American detail (hiring prostitutes, etc.). He was in charge of the detail. He went to Comcast as head of security. They are bringing him back to head SS.

    But he is an insider white guy.

  105. 105.

    Violet

    October 2, 2014 at 11:26 am

    @Nicole: Did the vet have any suggestions? Yours can’t be the first dog to chew through a cone of shame.

  106. 106.

    Nicole

    October 2, 2014 at 11:26 am

    @Cervantes: Well, seeing as one gets you treats, and the other gets you, “Oh no! What have you done?”….

  107. 107.

    Nicole

    October 2, 2014 at 11:29 am

    @Violet: Also recommended trying a soft collar.@Mnemosyne: Thanks, by the way, the vet also suggested one of the round inflatable ones.

    On the bright side, at least the awful weeping that kept us up all night was likely due to hating the collar and not pain.

  108. 108.

    raven

    October 2, 2014 at 11:33 am

    @Nicole: Bitter Apple spray.

  109. 109.

    Botsplainer

    October 2, 2014 at 11:33 am

    @shortstop:

    Is bitter apple an irritant at all? I’ve considered using it on my arm (no joke – this dog mouths me several times a day out of affection – doesn’t hurt, but is annoying as all hell).

  110. 110.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 2, 2014 at 11:34 am

    the overgrown fratboy nature of so much of this is hard to believe, like a comic novel (one that would need a really strong book around stuff like this)

    In the closing weeks of the 2012 campaign, a Secret Service agent was on the ground in a key swing state to coordinate security ahead of several campaign stops by the President. The agent, who was married, made advances towards a Romney campaign staff …In one particular incident at a bar in late October 2012, the Secret Service agent, who had a number of drinks during the meeting, unprompted and in an apparent attempt to impress one of the staffers, began providing details of President Obama’s schedule. The information included times and locations of the President’s events in the final days of the election. The President’s campaign would not release these details of the President’s schedule publicly until several days later.
    The sources state that the same agent on a separate occasion provided joy rides in a Secret Service vehicle with the lights flashing.

    The Romney campaign dismissed it as some dude trying to get laid.

  111. 111.

    scav

    October 2, 2014 at 11:34 am

    At this point in the conversation, I will admit I’ve got the grumpy, self-illuminating, lampshade DangerMEmeMEme in a tattered cone of shame, unable to roll over, let alone get over, his baysian priors. Interesting coffee that must have been.

  112. 112.

    slag

    October 2, 2014 at 11:35 am

    @Belafon: There’s also that Hunger Games-like movie with that woman from The Fault in our Stars movie.

    It’s not that there aren’t a lot of dystopian films that feature white men in leadership positions. It’s that there aren’t a lot of utopian films that feature anyone but white men in leadership positions. This isn’t a new or revelatory observation. It just fits with a pattern we see in life.

    I even think the main reason we had a serious white female and black male contender for the presidency in 2008 was that GW was such a colossal fuck-up that people didn’t feel like they had anything left to lose.

    Personally, I look at it as a sign of progress. It’s a start. But it’s also just a start and shouldn’t be confused for anything else.

  113. 113.

    Patrick

    October 2, 2014 at 11:35 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    You know, the people who won’t cut farm subsidies and put two wars on the national credit card? Those “spending conscious Republicans”

    Thank you. If one truly cares about government spending, the last party one should vote for is today’s Republican party. Bush inherited budget surpluses and magically turned them into astronomical budget deficits. The GOP cares as much about our deficit as my cute little cat. They are all talk.

  114. 114.

    Amir Khalid

    October 2, 2014 at 11:36 am

    @Botsplainer:
    If I had a dog that did that out of love for me, I would feel kind of bad about even entertaining the idea of discouraging it.

  115. 115.

    slag

    October 2, 2014 at 11:39 am

    @skerry: Shocked shocked I say!

    Meritocracy is unidirectional. If you’re undeserving and you screw up, you earn the pink slip. If you’re deserving and you screw up, you’re just learning from failure.

  116. 116.

    Violet

    October 2, 2014 at 11:40 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: @Patrick: Just to be clear, the part that Jim, Foolish Literalist put in the blockquote is not something I wrote. It’s from the Washington Post article.

    Of course they characterize the Republicans as “Spending Conscious”. It’s baked into their brand. It’s untrue of course. But they’ve done a damn good job of branding themselves that way.

  117. 117.

    Omnes Omnibus

    October 2, 2014 at 11:41 am

    @The Dangerman: Jesus fuck, man, give it a fucking rest. People disagreed with you on the internet; deal with it – by some means other than incessant whining.

  118. 118.

    shortstop

    October 2, 2014 at 11:44 am

    @Botsplainer: For most people, only if the skin is broken. As always, test first in inconspicuous spot!

  119. 119.

    shortstop

    October 2, 2014 at 11:47 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: At the risk of sounding like Carry Nation, I note that many of the SS’s biggest fuckups involve heavy drinking. (I know, I know, that would be different from the gen pop how?) I don’t know how you deal with that when getting loaded together after work is so clearly part of the culture in that organization.

    @scav: Nice work, linguistically and literally.

  120. 120.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 2, 2014 at 11:48 am

    @Violet: Didn’t mean to imply you said that, it just that blind acceptance of GOP spin in ‘straight’ news reports drives me crazy, especially since last night when I saw a segment on welfare-farmer Tom Cotton and his demagoguery about foodstamps and the farm bill

  121. 121.

    Violet

    October 2, 2014 at 11:50 am

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: Like I said, the GOP has done a masterful job off branding. The Democratic Party needs better branding.

  122. 122.

    shortstop

    October 2, 2014 at 11:52 am

    @Amir Khalid: And if it’s that big an irritant, reward-based training works better and is nicer.

  123. 123.

    AxelFoley

    October 2, 2014 at 11:53 am

    @lol:

    Backfired pretty badly. They struck her down and she came more powerful than they could imagine.

    Your internets–where would you like it delivered to?

  124. 124.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    October 2, 2014 at 12:01 pm

    @Violet: I think especially on economic/fiscal issues, the upper-middle class and aspirational media figures largely buy in to GOP framing and policy– “everyone owns stocks!” actually about half the country. $200,000/yr is a middle class income, why not raise the retirement age? 65 is the new 40! etc

  125. 125.

    slag

    October 2, 2014 at 12:06 pm

    @Belafon: Good point. Then, he shouldn’t be rehired.

  126. 126.

    gvg

    October 2, 2014 at 12:33 pm

    Seems to me there are signs of change. Powell was the first black secretary of state. He did not look very successful at the end of his term but he was replaced by a black woman and I don’t remember much fuss about it and she was definitely not a success. Afterwards their administration was followed by the election of a Black President. Barack Obama was being spoken of as a potential President before it was obvious how much Bush had failed. He got the job because a lot of people liked his calm competance…..Bush did set up a taste for that. A certain % have lost their marbles over him but the majority had no problem voting for him twice. I think a lot of us have already had black bosses and learned they are just like the white ones, good and bad, look at the individual record so I am hopeful the woman scapegoat thing will go away soon.
    I don’t think this woman’s firing bothers me but the hiring of a guy who also did badly DOES bother me and needs some justification. The administration needs to be asked why him.

  127. 127.

    ruemara

    October 2, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    @The Dangerman: and with that, you prove you’re a living example of intellectually lazy thinking.

    This subject hits me where it hurts. Every permanent job I’ve gotten has been either : 1. Prior person, usually white, usually male, was so awful. I come in, usually as a lucky temp, and they marvel and offer me a job. Usually for less than the going rate. With less benefits. 2. Current owner/supervisor/corporation is so awful, they never get anyone to stay, so they see me and say they’ll give me a shot.

    It’s how I was “manager” of production and getting paid 40k in SF, while people under me pulled in 60. I found out later that my manager title was an off the books lie and to the head office in NYC, I was just a basic production artist. Working for the city, I was the only one who wasn’t a college student with no real experience in video or design. This job, well, she was not mentally well and had a terrible time keeping anyone. At least these women get to stand at the peak for a bit. Some of us are under the glass cliff.

  128. 128.

    E.

    October 2, 2014 at 1:39 pm

    Oh come on. Did see her testimony? It was utterly awful. She now says resigning felt like “the right thing to do” but the goddamn right thing to do was to protect the President and not lie about security breaches TO HIM. Never mind to Congress.

    The “glass cliff” needs a new name. I am confident it is a real phenomena but the point of “glass ceiling” is that it is a barrier you cannot see. A cliff is not a barrier in this case, it is the thing you are pushed off of. It doesn’t work.

  129. 129.

    Paul in KY

    October 2, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    @satby: Very sorry to hear that.

  130. 130.

    Michael J.

    October 2, 2014 at 2:11 pm

    We should never forget the rapper DMX, who, even through the haze of serious drug addition, could guess in 2008 what was going to happen: http://www.notio.com/2008/03/you-cant-be-serious/

    What, they gon’ give a dog a bone? There you go. Ooh, we have a Black president now. They should’ve done that shit a long time ago, we wouldn’t be in the fuckin’ position we in now. With world war coming up right now. They done fucked this shit up then give it to the Black people, “Here you take it. Take my mess.”

  131. 131.

    chopper

    October 2, 2014 at 2:19 pm

    @The Dangerman:

    oh for fuck’s sake, get over yourself already.

  132. 132.

    Cckids

    October 2, 2014 at 2:36 pm

    @Iowa Old Lady: I still don’t understand how there was anyone at on the elevator with him, aside from the SS & invited guests. It’s not as though he’s at the local Motel 6, and can’t make someone wait for the next one. What gives with that, anyway?

  133. 133.

    VFX Lurker

    October 2, 2014 at 2:37 pm

    @slag:

    It’s that there aren’t a lot of utopian films that feature anyone but white men in leadership positions.

    I think you’re right. I’d like to give props to James Gunn for casting Glenn Close as Nova Prime in the recent GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY film. She was depicted as the leader of a utopian world.

  134. 134.

    JR in WV

    October 2, 2014 at 2:40 pm

    @raven:

    I usually enjoy your comments and learn from them. In this case… what event are you talking about? Who is Pierson? After reading your comment I knew nothing more than before I saw it, as I don’t understand the background of your discussion.

  135. 135.

    slag

    October 2, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    @VFX Lurker: Agreed. I feel like we may be moving in a more positive direction in sci-fi/superhero movies as they become more about saving the world through leadership and teamwork than they are about lone vigilantes kicking ass.

    I blame Marvel’s success combined with DC’s Superman failures, in part, for this improvement. Gay rights and black president also helping. Still…a long, long, long way to go.

  136. 136.

    Paul in KY

    October 2, 2014 at 3:11 pm

    @shortstop: Good point on alcohol being a contributing factor.

  137. 137.

    Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism

    October 2, 2014 at 3:25 pm

    @VFX Lurker: Not too long ago, a black man as president was a common signal of “this is the future!!!”, dystopian or not.

  138. 138.

    AxelFoley

    October 2, 2014 at 4:02 pm

    @slag:

    I blame Marvel’s success combined with DC’s Superman failures, in part, for this improvement.

    I’m not getting this. Man of Steel was a success. It’s leading to a wider DC Cinematic Universe, which comic fans have been clamoring for years.

  139. 139.

    Mnemosyne

    October 2, 2014 at 4:29 pm

    @AxelFoley:

    Man of Steel made $291 million. The Avengers made $623 million. Guardians of the Galaxy — made from a frankly obscure Marvel title that very few people had heard of — made $320 million. I also think the upcoming animated feature Big Hero 6 is going to do very well, and I’m not saying that just because the Mouse signs my paycheck.

    DC’s movies are getting pwned by Marvel’s movies. The Marvel movie bench is deep and wide, while DC can only get Superman and Batman movies off the ground.

    (All numbers from Box Office Mojo.)

    ETA: Also, too, to slag’s original point, all three of the Marvel movies I referred to above are team movies, not lone hero movies.

  140. 140.

    SWMBO

    October 3, 2014 at 4:42 am

    @Nicole: Might give vanilla flavoring a try. It smells wonderful and tastes like shit until you add other ingredients to it. Might be less irritating to use a cotton ball and dab it around the area. After a while, just smelling it will warn him/her off. I have dachshunds and they are long enough to bend around and get to stitches in their hind end without removing the cone of shame. Ask the vet. One time one of our dogs had chewed his tail until they thought they were going to have to amputate some of it (ant bites and subsequent infection from chewing). He got around the cone. *sigh* The vet took a syringe and rigged a way to put a splint on the tail so he couldn’t get to it. The vet has seen this before. See if they have a better solution than just a cone.

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