If the only achievement of Pope Francis is to get Ross Douthat to leave the church, this will rank as a great papacy.
— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) October 26, 2014
Seriously, Ross Douthat is about 3 months away from joining the crazy breakaway Catholic cult Mel Gibson's dad belongs to.
— Jeet Heer (@HeerJeet) October 26, 2014
I don’t waste my time reading Ross Douthat (pronounced, in my head, Doubt-That) because life’s too short, but his latest tantrum provoked someone on twitter to wonder if the NYTimes had given him precious op-ed space as a subtle insult to the Catholic Church. As someone who spent twelve years in parochial school, I can attest that this column is the doctrinal equivalent of Doubthat’s ‘chunky Reese Witherspoon’ reminiscences — entirely too revealing about a psychological kink he believes is universal law. If you don’t trust my judgement, here’s Mark Kleiman at The Reality-Based Community:
Shorter Ross Douthat: All Popes are infallible, but reactionary Popes are more infallible than others.
Note especially two extraordinary claims:
* That what Douthat admits is a traditionalist minority deserves deference because of its energy. Apparently Douthat wants his faction to dominate the Church the way the Tea Party dominates the GOP.
* That it would be outrageous for Pope Francis to use the power of appointment to move the Church into the future in precisely the way his two predecessors used it to move the Church into the past…
Seriously — this is all about Doubthat’s sexual terrors:
… The church’s attitude toward gay Catholics, for instance, has often been far more punitive and hostile than the pastoral approach to heterosexuals living in what the church considers sinful situations, and there are clearly ways that the church can be more understanding of the cross carried by gay Christians.
But going beyond such a welcome to a kind of celebration of the virtues of nonmarital relationships generally, as the synod document seemed to do, might open a divide between formal teaching and real-world practice that’s too wide to be sustained. And on communion for the remarried, the stakes are not debatable at all. The Catholic Church was willing to lose the kingdom of England, and by extension the entire English-speaking world, over the principle that when a first marriage is valid a second is adulterous, a position rooted in the specific words of Jesus of Nazareth. To change on that issue, no matter how it was couched, would not be development; it would be contradiction and reversal.
SUCH a reversal would put the church on the brink of a precipice. Of course it would be welcomed by some progressive Catholics and hailed by the secular press. But it would leave many of the church’s bishops and theologians in an untenable position, and it would sow confusion among the church’s orthodox adherents — encouraging doubt and defections, apocalypticism and paranoia (remember there is another pope still living!) and eventually even a real schism…
Ross Douthat is a convert, and converts are notoriously inflexible about their (most recent) One True Faith. But the Catholic Church has survived — despite the Baltimore Catechism — because its leading practitioners have always been flexible about adapting to the social mores of a given time and place. Douthat, from his published writings, loathes and fears all sexual contacts; his Catholic Church is one that can welcome even homosexuals, as long as they swear never to use their genitals, but must sternly reject heterosexual congregants who choose sexual (human!) gratification over the “rigors” of a grudging Pauline edict that sexual contact is, at best, a distraction to be indulged only for procreative purposes.
Corner Stone
Anytime someone wants to intro me to a chunky Reese, please proceed.
Howard Beale IV
The perhaps he needs to join the Crunchy Con in leaving Mother Rome.
KG
Because the current divide between formal teaching and the real world is so very narrow?
No sex before marriage, no living together before marriage, no divorce, no getting remarried, no birth control, no sex that doesn’t “lead to procreation”.
I’m a recovering Catholic, and there’s no way that half of that is realistic for more than a handful of people.
Baud
No inquisition? Why doesn’t anyone ever expect the inquisition?
Nutella
He’s a convert? From pentecostalism! And converted from something else unspecified by wikipedia to pentecostalism. ETA – originally Episcopalian.
Explains a lot.
azlib
Read this from Brad DeLong:
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2014/10/could-we-please-have-better-new-york-times-columnists-historical-lack-of-literacy-ediiton.html
Brad completely demolishes Douthat’s history.
Corner Stone
Eddie Lacy looks like he’s going about 260lbs these days. He sure as F isn’t 230.
scav
I’d somehow missed ever explicitly making th connection between The Man formerly Known as Pope and the Half-Term Governor. They do rather admire individuals that pull out before finishing . . . .
PhoenixRising
Pretty sure it’s pronounced ‘douche-hat’.
But you’re spot-on. More Catholic than THIS Pope.
Citizen_X
Wait, what? That was FIVE FUCKING CENTURIES AGO! Get the hell over it!
Only Douthat is still fighting the Reformation.
dance around in your bones
Don’t know why anybody bothers to read the Donghat. What a waste of precious time.
MoeLarryAndJesus
Douthat is a versatile bigot. When he was at the Atlantic he had a link to Steve Sailer’s revolting white supremacist site on his blogroll. It conveniently disappeared shortly before he was hired by the Times. Douthat would be very happy in an America run by the most extreme Tea Party douchebags.
Howard Beale IV
@azlib: Kleiman included DeLong’s take-down in his response.
This is also Sully-bait, too-whether or not he bites, we’ll see.
geg6
Fuck that asshole with a rusty chainsaw. And that fucking twit Sultzberger for hiring him.
the Conster
@Howard Beale IV:
I don’t think it’s possible to care less about something than what Sully thinks.
Mnemosyne
Since the Tudor era is one of my obsessions and I’ve been reading about it again lately … errr, not so much. More like Pope Clement was unwilling to annul Henry VIII’s marriage to Katharine of Aragon while Clement was a prisoner of Katherine’s nephew, Charles V. People tend to forget that Henry did eventually get his annulment, but it arrived after Henry had decided to make himself head of the new (Protestant) Church of England.
geg6
@Mnemosyne:
This.
Anne Laurie
@dance around in your bones:
Yeah, that’s why I labelled it ‘self-indulgence’ right in the title.
Seeing the tweeter-jeers tweaked my background as someone who grew up in, though never quite of, the Catholic Church. I am proud to say I started arguing doctrine at the age of not-quite-six, on my very first day of parochial education. Haven’t been a member of the community since I graduated high school, but seeing “Catholicism” argued so pitifully is irksome to my experienced eye!
Ruckus
@dance around in your bones:
No kidding, a complete waste of time. And my time really isn’t worth much more than spit in the overall scheme of things.
TaMara (BHF)
I missed the nice thoughts thread, but there is some Bixby pictures to end the evening. He’s growing so fast!
Tiny Tim
The vast early 16th century english-speaking “world.”
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@TaMara (BHF): Yay! Puppy!
Ruckus
@Anne Laurie:
I spent freshman year in a catholic high school(parents). As a non catholic who had already decided that religion was hooey. Had I known then that it was also made quite dangerous by some of it’s practitioners…….
Ruckus
@TaMara (BHF):
Nice!
scav
Which old-time Catholicism is to be judged as properly authentic and non-revolutionary? WikiSkim
It seems to have been the Council of Trent [1545 and 1563] that made the presence of the parish priest or his delegate and of at least two more witnesses a condition for validity — and I think I’ve read of some fathers who got quite incensed at the priests butting into what had been a part of their bailiwick (he’d quite get on with them, the upholders of old-time non-revolutionary practices, no?)
Are traditional weddings now to be held outside the church as in the good old (well, at least as far back as the 14c or so, depending on how advanced the power grab by the church was locally) days?
Baud
@azlib:
From your link
I am sad that I will never have a title this awesome.
Kristine
@TaMara (BHF): Cute cute puppy!
Origuy
There’s a small island off the coast of Scotland, in Orkney, called Papa Stronsay. It’s owned by an order of monks which keep to the Latin Mass. He’d probably be happy there.
Baud
@Origuy:
It would make me happy if he were there.
PhoenixRising
@TaMara (BHF): The crazy upside down Dane is my favorite. I’m looking at one now…it’s just awesome, in the sense of ‘the monster inside my dog’.
Mike in NC
I spent grades 1 through 6 at Our Lady of Perpetual Help school in Boston. The experience left perpetual psychic scars.
MattR
Heading to Iceland on Thursday. Anyone have any suggestions for things I should make sure to check out (or excursion companies that they would recommend, or avoid). Already planned are a visit to the Blue Lagoon and a tour of the Thrihnukagigur volcano.
sm*t cl*de
I love it when authoritarians join a movement and then complain that the leader is not issuing the kind of orders that they want to receive.
Here’s Douthat from a year ago, explaining that catholicism is inherently economically conservative (whatever the Pope may think).
Barney
Maybe they should appoint an antipope for Douthat. That’s good and traditional, isn’t it?
mai naem
I worked with this woman several years ago who was an Episcopalian. She made a big deal of being unhappy with the church when they installed the gay bishop in New England. She then announces that she’s going to join the Catholic Church. It took everything in me not to tell her “oh, the church with the pastors who were just caught diddling little boys?” She had two young sons. Anyhow, I never liked her but I thought it was only me until she quit when one of the office people told me she was universally disliked in the office because she was one of those backstabbing brown nosers that every workplace has.
TOP123
@Tiny Tim: details, details!
Ruckus
@MattR:
Have a friend from northern CA who lives there, she seems to like pretty much everything but seems to be especially taken by the wild horses, which look spectacular.
BonCH
But how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin, Ross?
Oh, forget it. I’ll ask Rod Dreher.
Omnes Omnibus
@BonCH: All of them, Katie.
Howard Beale IV
@the Conster: Being that Sully is a married Gay Catholic Tory, and that the Doughy Pantload wannabee is a convert and just threw a tac nuke across the Pope’s bow, this could be amusing. Then again, nothing may happen.
pseudonymous in nc
As the line goes, who died and made Chunky Douthat Pope?
Nutella
@Anne Laurie:
Converts always get things wrong, don’t they?
pseudonymous in nc
@Nutella:
One part of my Catholic education that has stuck with me more than the rest of it was ‘never trust a convert, too much to prove’.
Newt Gingrich. Tony Blair. Ross Douthat. All huddling in the fucking first two rows at church, while everyone raised in the Holy Mother Church knows that the appropriate row is about three-quarters back, unless you’re one of the young Irish blokes in leather jackets who arrives just before the gospel and leaves straight after communion.
Another Holocene Human
@scav: I might be wrong, but somehow I got the impression that blessing this that and the other thing was a beloved Catholic gig (by superstitious laity and attention-loving clergy) even to this day in some places. And naturally some couples wanted their marriage blessed, especially as Catholicism encroached all but the most denatured pagan practices, especially in rural communities where you wanted kiddos to take care of you when all that back-breaking work finally broke your back. eta: so why not try to get some of that jesus-and-all-the-saints magic in the days before genetic tests and IVF?
But at first the church, in its traditional stance, thought concupiscence was icky and refused to bless marriages … then they relented … on Saturday, NOT a holy day, and outside the sanctuary walls.
Only much later did the marriage come inside. With a (gasp) Mass. Something very early modern about that.
Another Holocene Human
@Baud: I’m thinking the Trappists. Oath of silence and all that.
Also, very masculinist. His woman-fearing/loathing ass would fit right in.
Another Holocene Human
@Mike in NC: I take it the Lady was of No Help?
Another Holocene Human
@sm*t cl*de:
Ha ha, see uber-leftist Obama voters, circa early Summer 2009.
“He’s worse than the GOP. He sold us out!”
I loved all the demands that he out-GWB GWB cutting a power-grabbing swathe through every executive department and even through stuff controlled by Congress, take illegal actions, invite most of the country and the world to kiss his ass, and threaten to send in the NG everywhere.
Very telling of the psychology of the ones fantasizing about such actions.
Another Holocene Human
@sm*t cl*de:
I’m secretly loving the notion of just how deeply Douthat would have loathed Gregory the Great.
Kevin
@PhoenixRising:
Douche-Hat has always been my preferred pronunciation as well. It’s so obviously correct.
pseudonymous in nc
(OT, but I hope Cole mentions the Pittsburgh Wasps if he shows up. Not just throwback, but rugby throwback.)
MattR
@Ruckus: Thanks. They do look amazing. Hope we run into some, but not sure we will plan something specifically around that. Forgot to mention that seeking the Northern Lights is also on the list. That is the only upside to visiting Iceland around Halloween instead of during the summer so hopefully the weather will cooperate (though it looks like we will be greeted with rain upon arrival)
@Kevin: Agreed. That is how I have always read his name.
Villago Delenda Est
Douchehat is dogshit.
All you need to know about the vile creature.
Xenos
The question of whether marriage is a sacrement was a serious debate during the reformation. For protestants it was a matter of the churich bureaucracy seizing power on the thinnest of pretexts.
Sacrements were supposed to be directly based on the actions of jesus… healing, baptism, and so on. But Jesus never married, and as a rabbi never married couples. The sacrement of marriage is justified by the miracle at the wedding at Cana. The proper interpretation to this is clear.. bringing drinks to a wedding should be a sacrement.
TaMara (BHF)
@PhoenixRising:Me, too. I was on the phone, turned around and he was hanging upside down. Luckily it was a friend and not work related because I was laughing so hard I had to hang up the phone.
StringOnAStick
We hiked up a local 14,000′ this Saturday, and I swear it was “exotic purebreds preferred” day. The usual assortment of Golden and Labrador Retrievers (Colorado’s apparent state dogs), a strong showing in the Goldendoodle department, a Visla (I had to ask since I’ve never seen one before), and a pair of very sweet 8 month old Mastiff’s with paws the size of the palm of my hand. We’re cat people but I get my doggie jollies from the ones I meet on the trail.
While almost back to the parking lot we had an ermine emerge from the shrubs not 10′ away, look us over, circle the shrub clump and then head for the thicker underbrush, too quick to get my phone camera ready in time. We’re outdoors in the high country all the time, and we’d never seen one before. It was all white like it should be this time of year, though we’ve been having record-breaking highs more than 20 degrees over the average so there is very little snow up there right now.
scav
@Another Holocene Human: Better still for all concerned, how about as an Anchorite, it is one of the earliest forms of Christian monastic living. Stylite would be amusing, but the mute button doesn’t work as well.
Omnes Omnibus
@Xenos: Catering is a sacrament?
Hildebrand
@scav: Being a NYT columnist is like being a stylite – at least a handful of people think your shit is worth something.
NotMax
Difficult to avoid believing in the doctrine of Douthat fallibility.
scav
@Omnes Omnibus: Fishes, loaves and wine for crowds both at lectures and mirthful get-togethers? I’d say it’s nearly underlined as such judging by his actions (we won’t even get into the cannibalism phase. . . )
Omnes Omnibus
@scav: Plus the whole “Blessed are the cheesemakers” thing.
NotMax
@scav
Always conveniently left out are those among the masses who sneered “Red wine? With fish? I’m so outta here!”
TaMara (BHF)
@StringOnAStick: I was looking at Long’s Peak today and thinking, wow, I don’t think I remember a time this late in the season it’s been bare of snow. I mean, we have warm spells down here, but there’s usually snow up there from Sept on.
Great day for a hike. I house hunted. Big paws…I think my dane may have them beat. We ran into a year old mastiff this week and compared feet. LOL. Sweet little girl. I think Bixby had a crush.
ETA: Jealous about the ermine. I have a long list of wildlife I’ve yet to see. Though I’ve seen both a bobcat and a lynx, so I’ve got that marked off my bingo card
Howard Beale IV
@sm*t cl*de: Unfortunately, one of the paragons of Liberterainism flat out stated that Jesus is a Socialist, which makes The Doughy Pantload wannbee’s argument null and void.
NotMax
@TaMara (BHF)
Long ago, friend had a huge mastiff who would destroy any store bought dog toys so he hit upon the idea of giving him a coconut to bat around, which said doggie found endlessly fun.
TaMara (BHF)
@NotMax: Love that idea.
Joel
Relatedly:
dance around in your bones
@Anne Laurie: So sorry, sometimes I don’t even look at the tags.
I was out walking the Foo dog. admiring the thin sliver of full moon hanging in the sky; and then when I cam e back I tipped over a glass of ice water (it’s kinda hot and breezy here in SB) onto the power strip that feeds my laptop, iPhone and bedside lamp.
In other words, rather preoccupied!
I think your post is wonderful, I just never read DoubtThat and don’t really know why anyone else does. I mean, he has left a clear scat trail of thought over the years, no?
@Ruckus: Ayup. Read the above comment to AL. I just think of that New Yorker’s line that is good for every cartoon on the planet “Christ, what an asshole!”
ETA: Sorry again, Anne Laurie! Right in the title! I guess I was preoccupied with the incipient disaster with the power strip.
“Good God Captain! She canna take anymore!!”
NotMax
@Joel
That was something I noticed when in Manhattan last month – what we used to call the “going out of business stores” were not evident.
For those who never saw them, those were shops (there was a multitude of such, many on Fifth Avenue) with perpetual “Going Out of Business” banners displayed, year after year after year. Presumably geared to inveigling tourists, most had window displays of luggage, cameras and jewelry.
El Caganer
Dear Ross:
Suck it.
kthxbai,
Frankie One
dance around in your bones
@NotMax: I remember those banners in NYC.
Quite obviously a scam – like the Trading Posts in New Mexico that always had 50% off signs on the silver and turquoise because they had already marked it 500% up.
Tree With Water
If I was Pope, I would excommunicate with a vengeance. I’d begin with prominent targets, like the above mentioned idiot that writes for the Times. I’d excommunicate Anton Scalia, too, and the entire Buchanan clan.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tree With Water: If I was Pope, I would hit the wine cellar. You know that is has to be great.
ETA: I would also excommunicate the shit out of some motherfuckers. Good point.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus:
Can you freakin’ imagine? Wouldn’t that cellar be the absolute…ummm…balls?
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: That’s all I am saying.
ETA: The power to excommunicate would be fun. I have people in mind. I don’t even care if they are Catholic. Hell, I’m not Catholic; so if I am Pope, all bets are off.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
Had some friends who had owned furniture stores and parred it down to one. Then they decided to close the last one and called in a furniture store liquidator(and yes there is actually a booming business in that). Told me their best month was the closing month, the liquidators came in, marked up everything 30-40% then made sale tags with 25% off. Of course the liquidators took their cut as well but they couldn’t write up the merchandise fast enough. Said they made a profit on every sale. Also said that many stores do a going out of business sale then “sell” the company to another family member, change the name and open right back up. When business slows down, they start the process all over again. Over a ten yr period they may go out of business 5-6 times.
catclub
@Another Holocene Human:
John 23rd. And Francis is looking good in that regard.
Omnes Omnibus
@catclub: Ross really comes from the anti-intellectual side of the Counter-Reformation. The Jesuits weep when they read his shit.
Citizen_X
@Omnes Omnibus:
Open bar.
Omnes Omnibus
@Citizen_X: Amen.
MattR
@Omnes Omnibus:
Would that qualify as your first confirmed miracle, leaving you one shy of sainthood?
@Tree With Water:
To make it interesting. If you could only excommunicate one person, who would you choose? There are so many worthy candidates.
Eric U.
@MattR: Scalia for sure. But in a righteous world, it would have already been done
linda
Conservatives in the US have been in a crisis ever since Obamacare, when it became apparent that laws could pass that they did not approve of. It’s not even the end results of the law that makes them upsrt–it’s the visible evidence that they are no longer the straw that stirs the drink–that they no longer set the agenda.
So now with conservative Catholics. They have stirred THAT drink for about a half century, and in that time sneeringly referred to liberal Catholics who rejected some church doctrines as “cafeteria Catholics.” Looks like Douthat and his ilk are now picking up their trays.
ulee
@Omnes Omnibus: Seriously, get a life.
Omnes Omnibus
@MattR: Interesting thought. BTW, I would excommunicate Cheney and Thatcher first. I don’t care that she is dead. I am the fucking Pope. I may not know much about art, but I know what I like.*
*Yeah, I went Monty Python at some point.
MattR
@Eric U.: That is the easy choice but would it have the greatest impact? That would probably have more of an effect than someone like Bill Donahue, but I am also thinking about people like Cardinals Dolan or Burke and wondering if smacking one of them down would have more significant repercussions across American society.
@Omnes Omnibus: : Are we limiting the options to Catholics only or are we expanding it to any self-proclaimed Christian who supports unChristian ideas?
Omnes Omnibus
@ulee: Quoi?
SRW1
A kind of celebration? Almighty Boogaboo! How does that tormented soul in his chunky body deal with the terror of the thought of l’il Ross having to open his eyes when he wakes up in the Morning!?
Omnes Omnibus
@SRW1: I am sure that his regular paycheck helps.
Suzanne
Out here on the east side of PHX, the LDS are the dominant Christian(ish) conservative group. There’s lots of Catholics out here, but many of them are Latino and so the Catholics are not reliably conservative. Also, one of the larger, whiter, more monied Catholic parishes had a sexual abuse scandal. But the LDS are going through all the same shit, and it basically boils down to the fact that they haz a sad because they don’t drive the cultural car anymore. LGBTs started getting married here about a week ago. Even west Mesa (settled by Mormons and the second-largest Mormon community in the world) is white-fleeing further east and further out of the city as secular and urban and brown people start coming their way.
I have to admit that I am enjoying it. The butthurt is actually kind of awesome.
Omnes Omnibus
@MattR: Fuck if I know. But if I end up as Pope, a lot of bets are off.
SWMBO
Is DoughBoy hoping for another Avignon Papacy? Who would be the Avignon Pope? Antonin Scalia (Pope Puckerface the Beheader?) John Roberts (Pope Glassy-eyed the Dicktator)?
BTW I am a married (raised) Protestant woman. I could be Pope.
Pope Francis is excommunicating people. Publicly. And he’s calling others out. I love this guy.
Suffern ACE
@MattR: i went to Iceland and flew up north to akeyri and drove back down around the ring road. It was breathtaking, but I had 10 days and 23 hours of daylight. I think this park is in the south http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g189952-d1987069-Reviews-Krysuvik_Seltun-Iceland.html
Namafjall mountain was also cool. Look for anything that might explode. Boiling mud pits are the best. Get used to sulphur. The smell is a sign that something cool is around.
MattR
@Suffern ACE: I wish I had the time and daylight to do the full tour like that. That was my top suggestion for my friends’ group 40th birthday vacation this summer. Did you go with a tour group or did you rent a car and drive yourself around? I like the “Look for anything that might explode.” advice. Just let my inner 12 year old guide my choices.
PurpleGirl
@MattR:
Just let my inner 12 year old guide my choices.
In Junior High I was really interested in volcanoes and earthquakes. Although I’d love to see a volcano erupting, the volcano I’d really love to see is Mount Etna on Sicily. My maternal grandparents both came from villages on Etna’s slopes.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
As someone who grew up in, though never quite of, Christian Science*, this whole thing just boggles my mind. Really? Infallibilty? WTF?
*And then just bagged the whole thing, Jesus and all, when I couldn’t stop the sniffles by praying.
Ruckus
@PurpleGirl:
Don’t know where in Sicily mine came from but both my maternal great grandparents and grandmother were Sicilian.
Suffern ACE
@MattR: I drove. Not all of the ring road is paved. Some of it was pretty bouncy. I had to stop a few times to pick up pieces of my car that thankfully weren’t too important.
I think given the season, you can book one of the golden triangle tours. Any tour company will offer it. The service will get you to the three big sites and know how to do it to get you there by daylight. The park I linked to is by the airport and really about an hour or so to walk through. The south is much more paved.
It is difficult to get lost on the ring road. You could drive to jokulsarlon in a few hours and then work your way back over a few days stopping at the thing, geysir and that big waterfall whose name I forget. you can stop in vik to see the black sands and svartifoss.
Lots to see. And Icelanders I think are glad to see you. Although it is very hard to tell one way or another.
divF
@Tree With Water: Unfortunately, excommunicating the whole Buchanan clan would be a little awkward for Francis. They are great financial benefactors of Gonzaga HS in DC, a Jesuit school, and Francis is (was?) a Jesuit. Futhermore, it’s not clear whether they all deserve it. The old man (Class of ’23) was a Father Coughlin Catholic Fascist (now dead, and therefore a little late to excommunicate him), and we all know about Pat (class of ’56). I’m not sure about the other six sons, the last of whom graduated in 1972 (I think), and was therefore exposed to the Jesuits as humane liberals.
ETA: I vote for Scalia. Excommunication would probably induce apoplexy.
MattR
@Suffern ACE: Thanks for the info. We need to get our act together in the next day or so and come up with some sort of itinerary and make reservations if necessary (and still available). And it is time to break out the winter gear a little earlier than I would normally have to.
sm*t cl*de
BTW, I would excommunicate Cheney and Thatcher first. I don’t care that she is dead.
Posthumous anathemata are legit. The Cadaver Synod is not just a death metal band.
John Weiss
I always hear ‘douche hat’.
Death Panel Truck
I read somewhere on the Interstate (h/t Jerry Stiller) years ago that his name rhymes with “cow butt.” I’ve never heard it, so I wouldn’t know. But it would explain a lot.
Chris
@linda:
Ah yes, “cafeteria Catholics.” The favorite slur of people who ignore the Church on when to go to war, how to treat the poor, how to treat prisoners, how to treat the environment… Everything except sex.
Love the justifications, too. “Well, the Church aren’t experts on economics and foreign policy…” Oh, but they’ve all got PHDs in human reproductive biology and psychology, do they? “Well, everyone wants to feed the poor, but that doesn’t mean the GOVERNMENT should…” Oh, but sexuality isn’t good enough to be left to the free market and rational self interest, only whether poor people live or die?
Oy. Yeah, I was raised Catholic. How did you know?
Chris
@MattR:
Yeah if you’re gonna excommunicate anyone in America, make it a bishop. Or two or three. All those who think their purpose in life is to be an arm of the GOP.
Emily68
@NotMax: Many years ago I saw a business with a big sign in its window “Going out FOR Business. But the “FOR” was much smaller than the rest of the text.
Even as a child, I could see they were trying to trick people.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Is Ross Douthat gay? Considering his obsession over homosexuality
Amir Khalid
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
According to Wikipedia, no; he is married to a woman, who was his only girlfriend since college
Dennis
If you’re going to excommunicate a bishop, may I suggest Raymond Cardinal Burke? He’s the wingnut par excellence of the wingnut Bishop contingent. If not him, Dolan in New York would be a good choice.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Mnemosyne: Yes, Douche hat’s historical knowledge of the period is so, so, faulty. First, Clement VII parents weren’t married, but he was allowed to move up in the church because his parents were declared betrothed per sponsalia de presenti, so Frankie I is considering more openness towards the same type of couples as Clement’s parents (of course, they were Medici and rich, so they could get away with shit.
Also, why is Douche hat citing Henry VIII’s lack of annulment as a sign of a pro-marriage church. One could argue that the annulments granted just 20 years earlier for Louis XII to drop his current wife and marry his brother’s widow are just as valid, if not more.
Bottom line — England not so important, Charles V had Clement imprisoned, Henry’s heir was Charles’ 1st cousin, and after her probably his son, thus giving him England, Douche hat knows nothing.
kindness
I was raised Protestant. Had Catholics in the family though. I still believe in many of the values I was raised in but found I believe in more than what Christianity offers. I don’t believe humans are God’s crowning achievement. I do believe that other planets also have sentient civilizations and that the universe is a shared item. The universe isn’t human centric and acting like we are the end all is extremely small minded for a religion who’s God is omnipotent. That plus the dogmas of both the Protestant & Catholic church have changed since the days of Jesus walking around. So many things Jesus said are now swept under the rug and so many things Jesus never said are now treated at edicts from God herself.
Left a bad taste in my mouth. Well that and I believe in reincarnation an several Buddist ideas in addition to the ones I grew up and kept.
We aren’t alone out here in the universe. We aren’t alone out here in our own galaxy. The sooner some other race pays us an official visit of state the better so as to chuck all the Douthouts down a cesspool where they belong.
Oh, that and Go Giants!
Villago Delenda Est
@Amir Khalid: Means nothing. Woman could well be a beard.
Now, does Douche have any kids? That would be proof positive of heterosexual activity. Well, unless Douche jerked off into a turkey baster….
Helmut Monotreme
Speculating on Ross’s sexual preference is unproductive and regressive. It doesn’t matter if his attitudes toward modernity are caused by misogyny, closeted homosexuality, cranial trauma or latent submissive tendencies or religious gullibility of colossal magnitude. The why is unimportant. If his publicly expressed atavistic opinions are the result of some psychological flaw, shouldn’t that give us more sympathy to him rather than less? Plenty of people seem to be able to live life in the closet without also being patriarchal stooges. He’s a grown up. He’s had access to the best education available. He’s been living on his own for a decade. He’s had time to get therapy. If doesn’t have the self awareness to examine his own work critically and realize it’s a bunch of regressive sexist authoritarian bilge, I’m prepared to say that’s on him. And it’s on his editor who didn’t throw it back in his face and demand a better class of reactionary propaganda.
Full metal Wingnut
Jesus was a pretty cool dude, Paul seems like he was a bit of a loon. The *original* more Catholic than Mr. Jesus it seems, like a guy with something to prove.
Full metal Wingnut
@KG: My mother was Episcopalian, father was Catholic. And I was raised Catholic and sent to Catholic school.
For reasons I won’t get into (nothing that affected me or my family directly) we stopped going to the local Catholic Church. My mother refused to go to Catholic Church with my father, and would only go if it were Episcopalian-I don’t know when she decided she had had enough with Catholics but it was around the time I was 11.
I was just blown away by how much more chill and less uptight the Episcopalians were. Everyone seemed a lot happier and less wound up. And after a little while the concept of Catholic Guilt finally made sense to me.
I’ve heard Episcopalians referred to as “Protestant, but Catholic.” Well, the Episcopal authority figures were far more tolerable is all I can say. If I ever become religious again I’ll be returning to my mother’s church, not my father’s.
Full metal Wingnut
@Nutella: Holy schmitties. An embarrassment to my mother’s religion (Episcopalian).
I was raised Catholic (father) but when I was a teen my mother refused to go to church unless it was Episcopal. So needless to say I’ll take Doubt that’s departure as an endorsement if I ever want to become religious again.
Tree With Water
@Ruckus: How old were you when you made your bones?
Bill O'Leary
In my head, I always pronounce his name ‘douche hat’.