Your host is a very bitter man about a certain football game and some hideous coaching decisions that were made. We’ll leave it at that.
Trying to think happy thoughts.
Pens are killing the Sabres, at least.
This post is in: Open Threads
Your host is a very bitter man about a certain football game and some hideous coaching decisions that were made. We’ll leave it at that.
Trying to think happy thoughts.
Pens are killing the Sabres, at least.
Comments are closed.
raven
Shit, you should read the UGA message boards. Misery loves company.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven:
I could swear Betty Cracker told me that UGA was going to whup Florida.
Honestly, are there any front-pagers a person can trust these days??
WereBear
Apply a kitten to the sore spot.
sharl
Condolences to you and Raven both.
Most excellent musical selection though…
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
Bemidji State played well. (I have no idea how that team got swept by Ohio State two weeks ago.) The Gophers did not play well, though they certainly didn’t play horribly, either. And Minnesota only got one bounce to go their way in front of the net all weekend and the refs waved it off incorrectly. (No crying about the refs,though, because they did their best to give us today’s game.
And so it was a one point weekend.
Corner Stone
@SiubhanDuinne:
Oooo…ouch…
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: We were NEVER going to cover but it was a surprise to most that a one dimensional offensive team could handle the Dawgs they way they did. We’ve been very lucky the last few games and it ran out today.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@efgoldman: And yet, Carolina is even worse.
merrinc
Final day of early voting in North Carolina and despite the GOP pricks in Raleigh cutting the number of days, the numbers are simply phenomenal. In Mecklenburg County, 91,685 people have voted early. That’s a helluva a sight better than the EV total for the 2010 midterm general which was 65,729. Better yet, more Dems are voting than Republicans. And yes, this trend is statewide.
Oh, and speaking of GOP pricks, Thom Tillis voted in Cornelius Town Hall today. When he walked out, he breezed right past all the volunteers and Natasha Marcus, the Dem candidate running for his old seat. He stopped and shook hands with a couple of GOP candidates and then went on his evil way. Can’t be bothered with the little people, ya know. Especially when they aren’t the right kind of little people.
Baud
@merrinc:
Good news. I hope it holds up.
skerry
Took the kid to “National Portfolio Day“. Some of the critics had kids in tears. Constructive criticism meets special snowflakes.
My kid took it all in stride and has devised a plan to improve her portfolio before college admission deadlines. She had a few pieces that were very well received by the colleges she spoke with. She called it a good day, excepting all the standing in line. She missed a couple of schools she wanted to speak with so we are probably doing it again in a couple of weeks.
Jerry
@efgoldman:
Uuuuuhhh…aren’t the Jets the Jets of the NHL?
Lurve,
A devoted Carolina Hurricanes fan.
Anya
I have a question. I’ve been travelling and haven’t done much blog reading. Does Balloon Juice have an official stand on Matt Taibbi vs First Look Media feud?
SiubhanDuinne
@merrinc:
Stay as classy as you are, Thom Tillis.
Edit: You fuckwad.
raven
@efgoldman: If they win out they could still go to the SEC Championship game. They’d have to beat FSU so it probably won’t happen but there is a chance. UGA is hoping he stays.
Baud
@Anya:
I haven’t followed that dispute, but my guess is that our official stand would be “pass the popcorn.”
Steeplejack
@Anya:
Not so far.
/obsessive Balloon Juice reader
RareSanity
@raven:
That game was a disaster.
Tree With Water
Not only am I not bitter, I’m still searching out articles about the Giants World Series win. It was a very good week.
I would also like to thank the Royals fans for ceasing to mimic that obnoxious tomahawk-chop chant that Braves fans made infamous. K.C. fans had done it (or a reasonable facsimile) sporadically during the AL series, and it sucked. I mean sucked in a way the insulting Chief Knock-A-Homa once sucked, on top of it simply being an incredibly annoying noise. But I didn’t hear them do it once during the last 4 games in KC, and that reflects well on a them all.
Omnes Omnibus
Speaking of colleges…. My undergrad got a nice little write-up yesterday (Warning: HuffPo link.)
schrodinger's cat
Yogi kitteh has been very affectionate today, I wonder what he is up to. Did anybody dress up their kittehs for Halloween? I would sleep with one eye open if I were you.
raven
@RareSanity: Yep, I was listening to Russ Tanner before the Mizzou game. He was talking about the loss of Gurley and the attitude of the rest of the team. He said something to the effect that ” if you don’t think the rest of these Alpha Dog players are not going to lay it on the line you don’t know much about these kids”. I see today as similar, Florida has their problems but they have also had incredible bad luck. We both know how good their D is and they took advantage of their strength and the breaks to kick our ass.
Anya
@Baud: @Steeplejack: I guess I didn’t miss John’s rant or Betty’s snark or Tom’s measured assessment. Personally, I am with team “pass the popcorn!” But also slightly with Matt, specially since I read Alex Parenee’s response to GG et al.
bk
@Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
Carolina grad here, and yep.
raven
@Anya: Betty didn’t snark. She, like most Gator fans had little faith in a team that has played poorly. They were a 12.5 dog and they kicked UGA’s ass. Johns didn’t need to rant, anyone that saw what happened to the Eers knew the score with him.
raven
@efgoldman: Starting? I fucking hate em all the time.
We may be able to stay with them because their D sucks but they will score 50 points on us.
sharl
@Anya: {Spoken in the voice of the late Peter Graves’ Captain Oveur character in “Airplane”: So,
TimmyAnya, do you like 300+ comment flame wars on Greenwald?}On a more serious note, I assume you saw the post coauthored by the editorial/writing leadership, including Taibbi’s (now former) deputy Alex Pareene’s input that was appended later? Pretty blunt IMO. Looks like Pierre Omidyar kept his promise to not interfere with the editorial process, but apparently interference with the business/admin side was another story. [On twitter Pareene later noted: Also I’ve never doubted Pierre’s sincere commitment to independent journalism, I just think he has some really dumb management philosophies]
As you probably also know, Taibbi has already arranged for return to Rolling Stone.
RareSanity
@raven:
Yeah I guess…
I kinda see it as something that appears to be typical under the Richt regime. No matter how clear the road in front of them is, they always seem to find a pothole.
To me, when Auburn won a National Championship it signaled the end of the excuses for Georgia not having won one in 35 years. This happened today because Richt, while capable of winning A LOT of games, is not capable of guiding a team to a championship.
NotMax
Margaret Rutherford as Miss Marple in Murder Most Foul just beginning opening credits on TCM.
What’s not to like?
raven
@RareSanity: Well the people at Get The Picture are with ya.
eta A lot of people (I’m sure you know this) think we should have just played Gurley and told the NCAA to go fuck themselves. They see the whole out fit at the AA as pussies.
Anya
@sharl: I live for “300+ comment flame wars on Greenwald” — they’re my favorite.
And yes, I read that but I still think Pareene’s account is more plausible. I liked his dig at John Cook. And I am glad Matt is back returned to Rolling Stone.
Anya
@raven: Not sure if we’re talking about the same thing?
raven
@Anya: I just realized that, sorry.
RareSanity
@raven:
I’m definitely not one of the trolls that always wants a coach fired any time they lose a game, but Georgia is too good of a situation to be languishing like this. They should be held in the same (present day) regard as Alabama, LSU, Florida (before Muschamp), Oklahoma, Ohio State, USC, and Texas (sans past 3 years). Bu the fact is, they’re not…and that’s pretty sad.
Too many of the Georgia fans think that they are national brands like those schools, but they just aren’t. If they were to be more realistic about where they really are, it might let they believe that they deserve better, so they can finally let Richt go. Just like the Braves let Bobby Cox “retire”, and Falcons are going to let Mike Smith go. Expect better than “go enough”.
raven
@RareSanity: I’m not disagreeing with you. I just think McGarity is a fucking choir boy too and they two of them were made for each other.
RareSanity
@raven:
Well that would have just been dumb.
Then you’re just daring the NCAA to drop the hammer on you, and I’m sure even that inept institution would be more than happy to oblige.
They probably would have gotten their ass kicked even with Gurley. He can’t block for himself, can’t pass, and he doesn’t play defense.
raven
@efgoldman: There also is the minor case of the swim coach ( a buddy of mine) who has been suspended and under an NCAA investigation for a year. We can bitch all we want about them but a school does NOT want to get into the “lack of institutional control” arena.
raven
@RareSanity: He had the longest pass on the team for a long time. I hate it for Chubb but he did finally cough it up at a pretty crucial time. But you are right.
Mike in NC
@merrinc: Nobody loves Turd Tillis.
sharl
@Anya: Was Pareene’s dig at Cook a part of his addendum to the Intercept post? Or elsewhere (e.g., Twitter)?
I don’t know why, but I’ve been way too fascinated by the whole shitstorm.
raven
Treadwell scores but I think he’s really hurt.
ankle. . .broken leg I think, what a fucking shame.
RareSanity
@raven:
He did.
But honestly, no matter how close the score may have gotten, didn’t you just know that they were going to screw it up somehow? Chubb was just the vehicle of the inevitable…it could have just as easily been someone else doing something else stupid.
They lost control of that game soon after that first Chubb TD.
ETA: I mean not long after the second score, not the first one. I thought it might be a blow out right after the second score. Then…
max
@Anya: And yes, I read that but I still think Pareene’s account is more plausible. I liked his dig at John Cook. And I am glad Matt is back returned to Rolling Stone.
I second your opinion.
Trying to think happy thoughts.
WV is playing really well, Cole. (Yeah, I watched big parts of the game. TCU did not look like a #7 team.)
max
[‘They still have good chances if they beat K state.’]
raven
@RareSanity: You mean on the awful fake FG.
raven
@efgoldman: Tredwell, he’s been a beast all year.
raven
Holy shit they took the TD away from Ol Miss too.
eta correctly
Corner Stone
GONE!!
Omnes Omnibus
Did anyone catch the All Blacks/Eagles friendly at Soldier Field today? The All Blacks are fucking phenomenal; The Eagles aren’t great, but the All Blacks are just wow.
raven
And motherfucking Auburn insanely lucks out again. What a shitty fucking day.
Corner Stone
Pharoh “D.B.” Cooper steals another one!
That kid has pure gas.
RareSanity
@raven:
Yep.
That’s coaching…and a call that’s made by the head coach. The same kind of stupid call Mike Smith would make for the Falcons. Smith will be gone at the end of the season, so I won’t have to suffer another year of him. But like you said, Richt and McGarity are soulmates, so he’ll be around for awhile.
raven
And the Hogs lose another thriller.
Corner Stone
BOOM!! Goes the dynamite!
gogol's wife
@Steeplejack:
I missed last night’s live-blogging of Curse of the Demon, but here’s my take (third time I’m posting this, I know I’m crazy):
I understand the producer’s impulse — if you didn’t know there were real demons, then you wouldn’t be as exasperated with Dana A. But for me the scariest scene was the seance. You think the medium is a fake but then Maurice Denham’s voice comes out of him — terrifying! You really didn’t need the demon after that.
merrinc
@Mike in NC:
He’s known as Thom Toll-us here in his home district. The Widen I77 folks and the Lake Norman Conservatives are encouraging people to write in John Rhodes against him. And they’re supporting my candidate for his old seat. So maybe we’ll see him get the ‘ole one-two punch on Tuesday.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/11/01/5282526/tea-party-republicans-favor-davidson.html
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
C’mon, Navy. Please spare us from the Notre Dame Fucking Irish in the playoff.
Edit: Navy has more players that have run the ball (10) than they have total pass attempts (9).
ThresherK
@efgoldman: Where do you live? I’m in the part of the northeast driving Hartford Whaler merch sales more successfully than the team ever racked up playoff wins, or appearances. Pleased to have picked up Quebec at an early age myself, so it’s a bit amusing to watch without being a part of it.
The older cat-in-residence seems to be grooming way too much white fur off the lower part of his now-pinkening belly. A visit to the vet is called for soon. Oddly, his behavior isn’t any different now.
The discard and boxing process is really shaping up. My wife and I are doing years and years of decluttering in about six weeks. If we don’t learn the lesson inherent in that, for next time…
Keith P
Horrible way to win (Treadwell getting hurt badly), but as an Auburn fan, it’s good to see another miracle win. Their mistakes hurt their offense, and their defense is their offense, so they tend to have exciting games.
gogol's wife
@NotMax:
Her recitation of Dan McGrew was priceless! But I have to go to bed now. The music is trippy.
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: Did you catch this?
mclaren
Libertarian superman.
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
Nice aerial view picture. But I thought Freshman Studies was a waste of time (both mine and the professor’s). But once we got that over with, it was a great place.
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: Well, I was there the first year they dropped Kuhn from the list, it made it better.
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
I somehow escaped Kuhn (although it seemed most everyone else had to read it). But I had to read Chomsky. Ugh. Clockwork Orange was good, though.
Omnes Omnibus
@gogol’s wife: My pet hate was “As I Lay Dying” or as we renamed it, “As I Die Reading.”
ETA: I didn’t realize that any earlier years avoided Kuhn. Congrats.
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes, really bad. I tried to get Prof. Fritzell to come to Jim’s Place so a friend and I could explain to him why it was so bad, but he wouldn’t come.
gogol's wife
@Omnes Omnibus:
My year there were two different reading lists, and it was the luck of the draw. They overlapped some, but our list omitted Kuhn.
ETA: I really have to go to bed now! See you.
GHayduke (formerly lojasmo)
Open thread? Training for an epic hike next fall. Whenever I walk (to and from work, mostly) I carry a pack full of agates…fifty pounds.
My legs hurt.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: I saw Gordie Howe play for the Whalers. Nevertheless, I was and am a Blackhawks fan.
@GHayduke (formerly lojasmo): Why agates?
Anya
@sharl:
translation: If Matt Taibbi was abusive and combative so was John Cook. Cook and company described Taibbi as “combative”.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: This was in the late 70s and you could see opposing players pulling up a bit before checking Howe. I don’t think anyone wanted to be the guy who took him out. And awe. Definitely awe.
ETA: I was 12 or 13 at the time.
Cervantes
@gogol’s wife:
Tom Kuhn?
Nellie in NZ
Skipping to the end to say, uh-huh, New Zealand 74, USA 6. We’ve got 4.5 million people here and the guys play without those honking big helmets or pads and everyone plays and plays. No standing around and grunting for a few minutes and then, whoops, time out.
sharl
@Anya: Ah, thanks. I’m not in the biz, but I have a feeling that many editors would wear the combative label as a badge of honor. But good on Pareene for highlighting that; maybe it was more of a point of clarification than a dig at Cook, but I dunno.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: Yes. For much of our undergrad’s Freshman Studies program (a link to the the recent HuffPo piece on it is upthread), Plato and Kuhn were staples. GW and I both missed the requirement of reading Kuhn – in my year, Aldo Leopold provided the replacement.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Nellie in NZ: That’s the game where you have the big oval field and the guys in the pith helmets who point when agoal is scored, right?
Omnes Omnibus
@Nellie in NZ: Nice to see that NZ fans handled the game with less class than your team did. Note my comment above. The All Blacks are the best team in international rugby right now; they didn’t feel the need to taunt – it has no place in rugby.
ETA: Rugby is the fastest growing sport in the US.
Nellie in NZ
Nah, rugby has a rectangular field.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus: Tom was a colleague for some years. I was quite fond of him. Did you and your friends find his writing unintelligible or was it something else that thrust him into disfavor?
Not that Leopold was a bad substitute, of course.
Anoniminous
As I recall, Kuhn didn’t grasp the difference between Logical Truth and Phenomenological Accuracy. I call it the “Philosopher’s Fallacy” but it is rife among people with extensive training yet little understanding of mathematics, e.g., Economists.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: Dense writing. Not unintelligible. As a first term freshman, it was less fun than some of the other works that were assigned. Of course, I didn’t read his work until years later, so I am reporting what my more senior colleagues said at the time.
ETA: One did want a social life as well as an academic life.
Mike in NC
@merrinc: My wife’s cousin in his 70s who lives on Lake Norman is a West Point graduate, a retired FBI agent, and a self-proclaimed lifelong Republican who admits that he has no clue about what motivates the current Tea Party lunatics. I get that from the locals, too.
Cervantes
@Anya:
Damned if I know, but this much seems obvious: not quite thinking it through first, Omidyar hired people with an independent and abrasive streak — and then tried to impose constraints that were almost (?) designed to repel those very people.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman:
Yes, we do. Dumbass.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anoniminous: Kuhn was a physicist by training. I doubt that a lack of math lead to any problems you see in his work.
Mike E
@Mike in NC: I’m sure he has more than a clue about his party’s attack dogs. They’re just”cleaning up” after the shock troops have had their way.
@merrinc: 2 more gotv days for me, then hopefully a visit from my daughter on election day to distract me from the nation-wide carnage. GOS has some interesting data crunched so far, and Thom Turkey will find comfort in all that Koch/Pope money to cushion the blow.
We need to build on this momentum for ’16…Lotsa cleanup left to do before NC shakes off the yoke.
Mike E
Now I’m watching the ad where Tillis puts on his “aww, shucks” plaid shirt to mansplain, “If you believe everything you’ve seen in this campaign, you’d think Kay Hagan is a bad person and I am too.” GFY&DIAF, asshole.
JCJ
@Omnes Omnibus:
I was there! The All Blacks looked like they were miles beyond the Eagles.
Omnes Omnibus
@JCJ: IIRC the Eagles team was selected less than a month ago. Nevertheless, the All Blacks ability to loop out and support an attack was amazing. They always had an overload. So, you got to see Dan Carter play in person. Cool. I got to see Jean-Pierre Rives play once. It is one of my rugby high points – aside from the game where I managed to intercept two passes
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: Come on, you were begging for such a response.
Violet
@Omnes Omnibus: Haven’t seen the match yet. Have it on the DVR. Watched Barbairans today instead. Looking forward to the Autumn Internationals.
Anoniminous
@Omnes Omnibus:
Go back and read my first sentence.
All cities are in Missouri.
Istanbul is a city.
Therefore, Istanbul is in Missouri.
Is Logically True and Phenomenologically Inaccurate. And that’s what Kuhn didn’t get. Aristotelian Physics was superseded because it isn’t accurately descriptive to the Phenomenon under analysis. The “Paradigm Shift” happened when Galileo, et. al., put Aristotelian Physics to the test and it failed.
As Feynman put it, “Ideas are tested by experiment. That is the core of Science. Everything else is just bookkeeping.”
Cervantes
@Anoniminous:
Do you? Yes, well, he did have his critics — but to give credit where it’s due, it is on the shoulders of giants that we stand, even if only to see further than they could.
Someone I admired once said about Kant that philosophers before him had an advantage over those that came after, in that they never had to read him — but I think that’s a little unkind, don’t you?
@Omnes Omnibus:
Nothing wrong with any of that, it seems to me. Including Kuhn’s work as an option in a reading packet for first-year students seems reasonable; whereas requiring that it be read seems counter-productive.
Violet
@Omnes Omnibus: Saw Jonah Lomu play in person. Fell in love with the All Backs that day.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@skerry:
I have friends who went to art school (CalArts and I think Art Center Pasadena). If kids can’t take portfolio criticism in the forum you went to, they’ll never survive the kind of peer critique you get at a top art school. It sounds like your kid has the right attitude, so she’ll probably be fine.
NotMax
Recall several people here expressing a liking for Clara Bow, a/k/a “The It Girl.”
Well, the source of that moniker will be shown Sunday at 9:30 p.m. (Eastern) on TCM, when 1927’s It airs. An 80-minute primer on what was considered sexy during Prohibition,
SFAW
@sharl:
And, as efgoldman can (I hope) tell you, it also inaugurated what used to be the best (non-college) rock station in Boston.
Of course, that station no longer exists, but it had a nice run for awhile.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: Well, one of the points of the Freshman Studies course is to provide a base of works that everyone in the school – students and faculty – has read. My FS professor was a Czech emigre, U of C PhD, Government professor. He ended up as my academic adviser and mentor. He was more comfortable with some of the material than he was with other parts. The program is supposed to be challenging for the faculty as well. Nevertheless, throughout my days as an undergrad, people could always refer back to that common core of readings.
Hal
I work the night shift Friday and Saturdays and usually go home for a round of cooking shows and Steve Kornacki. I decided to skip the politics this weekend. I’m just over it at this point, and will vote on Tuesday and leave it at that, but I do love noisemax’ constant headlines about how wonderful the GOP will do on Tuesday. Maybe it will turn out to be a case of protesting too much.
I’m also not thrilled about daylight saving time. Watching that clock go back to 1am makes my night feel so much longer.
JCJ
@Omnes Omnibus:
There were quite a few fans of the All Blacks at Soldier Field. It was a lovely day – not too cold. The All Blacks advanced so easily. I don’t follow rugby that closely, but I did not want to miss the opportunity to see them in person.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
@gogol’s wife:
My take — if you’re going to show the whole monster at the very beginning, you have to up the stakes for its appearance at the end. Otherwise, it’s a reprise, not a climax. I think the better way to go would have been to hint at the demon at the beginning (the glowing cloud, the giant foot) and then reveal the whole thing at the end.
danielx
Had two, count’em, TWO sets of trick-or-treaters last night, no doubt due to sleet, 30 mph winds and 34 degree temps. So no the dilemma is what to do with the roughly five lbs of candy, which is the good (bad) stuff – milky way, snickers, twix, kitkats, m&ms, etc….damn the luck.
SFAW
@Omnes Omnibus:
Nate Pusey? Before he hit the big time, apparently.
Omnes Omnibus
@SFAW: One of two Lawrence presidents who moved on to Harvard. He is no Rik Warch though.
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
It dropped below 60 degrees tonight, so we turned on our little gas fireplace after we got home from our two-drink dinner. G has now fallen asleep in front of the fire and Keaton has discovered that he likes to lay in front of the fireplace with his belly facing the warm flames. A good time is being had by all.
p.a.
@efgoldman: Dude, you’re old. It was against the Vikings I think. Maybe Stiller’s. I’m old too. ;-[
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): I had snow on my car Friday morning. Thank Jebus.
NotMax
@danielx
Local food bank?
Paging Mr. Douglas, Mr. Kirk Douglas, to the white courtesy phone. Or for the kiddies, The Huntsman, known for intoning “Darn the luck.”
Steeplejack (phone)
@gogol’s wife:
Message received. I still say, with Omnes, that a ball of smoke is a “real” enough demon to carry the movie. Didn’t need the cheesy monster.
Gian
@efgoldman:
somewhere I have a whalers puck from the 1970s. That and a bolt from the failed roof I’m told.
Skerry
@Mnemosyne (iPhone): Thanks. I think she’ll do just fine. I was surprised when she told me about the crying but some of these kids (who should, BTW, get off my damn lawn) have heard nothing but accolades and gotten participation soccer trophies since the age of 3. Set up to fall hard.
Mnemosyne
@efgoldman:
I did my time with ice and snow. I looked it up once and it turned out that something like 8 out of the 15 coldest winters in Chicago happened while I was growing up there.
There’s a reason why G and I separately decided to get the hell out of there and move to a place where you have to drive 2 hours to see snow. Or, as I heard Chicago native Bob Newhart say, I went to California and wondered why no one had ever told me that weather could be like this.
ETA: I went back to visit in February a few years ago and have now been officially banned by my spouse from visiting Chicago in the winter again. I’m just too fracking miserable the whole time.
Omnes Omnibus
@efgoldman: My parents are on the razor’s edge over deciding to patch the leak in their roof to get through the winter or have tho whole thing replaced. In Central Wisconsin, it becomes a question of whether the roofers can do a good job once it gets cold. They can do a patch.
Anoniminous
@Cervantes:
Even as a recovered Logical Positivist* I’m not much of a fan of Critique of Pure Reason. I distrust analysis based solely on Logic and double down when it’s Exclusive Middle Logic. To be fair, that’s all Kant knew as the non-Euclidean geometries had yet to be created. What he did know he absolutely knew. His book “Introduction to Logic” is a classic of the field and still worthwhile to delve into for the clarity of exposition and thought.
Kuhn, as far as I’m concerned, is simply beside the point wrt to Science. “Paradigm Shifts” are a useful shorthand in the History of Ideas and, to some extent, descriptive of the psychology and sociology of Science but has little bearing on the ‘doing’ of Science. Example, we are in the middle of major advances in Neurology, specifically the Biology of Human Behavior. This, in turn, is causing advances in Cognitive Psychology. Neither field is being held back by stuffy old-farts, instead it is the stuffy old-farts who are leading the charge.
* :-)
Cervantes
@Anoniminous:
Leaving aside Feynman’s comment for now, and also leaving your particular terminology aside, let me ask: you can’t seriously be asserting that Kuhn would have missed (“didn’t get”) the obvious flaw in the syllogism, can you? I assume not.
What did Kuhn say that you feel is corrected by these two lines?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I really couldn’t live where you are. I need all four seasons. And, to me, to get four seasons, you need snow. Plus, to have skiing, you need snow.
Anoniminous
@Omnes Omnibus:
Were John Dewey and Charles S. Peirce part of that core?
My guess is not.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I’m okay with cross-country skiing, but downhill skiing and I Do Not Agree. I fell so hard on the bunny hill that the ski patrol came out and made me promise that I would go back to the lodge and drink hot chocolate until the rest of the group was ready to go home.
Omnes Omnibus
@Anoniminous: Huh? Go read the article and see the link to the current list. Do that before you bitch about it. If you want to get assholish about the program afterwards, feel free. Until then, you can rather fuck off about it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I love skiing. I get that others don’t. But I do, ever so much.
Cervantes
@Anoniminous:
Glad you can still spare a kind word or two for Kant.
Even circumscribed in this way, it seems to me a good enough contribution.
As for your example re “major advances in Neurology, specifically the Biology of Human Behavior” and the observation that far from holding back change, older scientists are leading it, could it be that the (sociological) doing of science has changed a lot since the early ’60s? — I’ll refrain from abusing “paradigm shift” here — so if we find Kuhn’s half-century-old models and explanations a little out of date, should we be surprised?
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I couldn’t stay up long enough to figure out if I liked it or not. But I know others enjoy it.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
What isn’t?
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: A fair point. The LU FS program is designed to ensure that faculty teach some material well outside their area. That was what I was saying.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
I know, I was just kidding.
By the way, I did read Alena Hall’s HP article. Thanks.
And this year’s readings are … great … in the truest sense of the word.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: We tend to be proud of the program. We get proprietary about it.
Anoniminous
@Cervantes:
The syllogism is an example of Logical Truth being Phenomenologically Inaccurate.
As I recall, it’s been – god – 40 years since I read Kuhn, he made a big deal about pre-shift and post-shift being incommensurable. Now that word means “having no common standard of measurement.” My claim is, in Science, the common standard is accuracy implying Empirical Validation implying experiments. (Thus the Feynman quote.) Aristotelian Physics says two bodies will fall at different rates depending on their weights. Galileo by his experiments ‘commensurated’ Aristotelian and post-Aristotelian Physics using those experiments.
In the last 10 years it’s been discovered glia cells, which were formerly thought of as being the scaffold of the brain when I was taking neurology decades ago, can and do use neurotransmitters, in ways I don’t fully understand, to have bi-directional communication with neurons. This is a Paradigm Shift in neurology. And it’s got everybody excited. There just isn’t anybody holding on to the pre-shift understanding and preventing neurology from advancing as Kuhn would have it.
merrinc
@Mike E:
It’s not so much the plaid shirt as the mom jeans that Tillis the Odious is wearing. I mean those have got to be the momest mom jeans evah.
SFAW
@efgoldman:
I knew you wouldn’t let me down.
Just think: you could have been Lockindora before Lockindora came along. And you could be in Hawaii now. But I can’t picture you as Duane
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, that may not be justified: Pusey more or less copied it from elsewhere!
Cervantes
@Anoniminous:
Of course, and that was obvious from the beginning — but, to be blunt, I just don’t think you’re exposing with it any deep flaw in Tom’s work. It’s more that you misunderstand or misremember what he wrote.
It’s good you use Aristotle as your example for it will help keep my response short, because it was in fact while studying Aristotle that Tom came up with his notion of incommensurability. After struggling for a while with what appeared to be ancient nonsense, he realized that Aristotle’s words and concepts were not exactly our words and concepts. For example when Aristotle used the word κίνησις it was usually translated as “motion” — but in Aristotle’s time the word covered not only what we call motion — that is to say, displacement over time — but other kinds of change as well, including creation and destruction as well as expansion and contraction. Once you allow for these different meanings and concepts (Tom called it a “Gestalt shift,” you may remember), Aristotle’s statements and experiments about “motion” are really not directly comparable to ours.
So when you say:
I think you need to re-read Aristotle and re-discover his essential incommensurability!
And this is just one easy example. There are others. Put a few of them together and you begin to see what incommensurability really meant in Tom’s work. I’ve appended a much better, albeit longer, explanation in his own words. (It’s the conclusion of a talk he gave in the early ’70s.)
Cheers.
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
My roofer only does metal roofs now, says they’re so much better he would feel dishonest putting down shingles.
If B-J has an official position on the sun coming up in the east, if will come up in the west just to spite us!
I love phenomenological discourse early in the morning.
TCU didn’t deserve to win, Dana gave them that game on a platter, the only question is why? Play calling in the second half was terrible, a monkey could have done better.
Omnes Omnibus
@Cervantes: Sure, but this version is Lawrence’s and the school is proud of it – he says in a blatant dodge.
Cervantes
@Omnes Omnibus:
Et honi soit qui mal y pense.
jafd
@danielx:
The chocolate bars (not sure about the M&Ms) can be put in the freezer. This will not only keep them fresh, but since you’ve gotta wait for them to thaw out, will prevent sudden cravings turning into candy binges.