I need a diversion, so I am about to play some X3 Albion Prelude, which someone on twitter recommended. BTW- I have a vent server that can handle up to 15 people, so if you all are ever gaming or want to game and want to chat while we kill things, send me an email.
At any rate, I went to Kroger today in Steubenville (right behind the rape High School for those of you who were following that story), and when I walked in there were no carts. No big deal, I went outside and brought a couple in. There were a bunch of really old olds there just sort of milling around because there were no carts with the typical “SOMETHING HAS CHANGED AND I AM CONFUSED WHERE ARE THE CARTS GET OFF MY GRASS” look A couple of them grabbed the carts, but there were still a few without carts. I walked in, and the manager was about 20 feet in by the produce (I was having a raspberry craving today for some reason), and I told said “Excuse me, there are no carts in the front and a lot of elderly people looking for them.”
The manager then started in with a full-throated explanation- “People keep stealing them and we ave ordered a hundred more and I have a bunch of people outside…” and he just kept going and going and following me as I walked away, paying no attention to my nonverbals, and followed me, still talking, offering more explanations and excuses, until finally I just snapped and looked at him and said “I’m sorry if I mistakenly gave you the impression that I wanted to have a discussion about this, but I just wanted to tell you that you are out of carts.”
And then I walked away. I was in a shitty me because A.) I am me and B.) I hate Steubenville and C.) the whole football worship in front of the Steubenville Big Rape building pissed me off and D.) Office Max, the whole reason I was in that shithole city, only had about five desk chairs to choose from, but then I started to feel guilty that I may have been rude. I’m not a really good judge at whether or not I am being a dick so I just sort of default assume I am, and I have little to no internal monologue before things seem to come out of my big fat mouth, but my mom says it was not rude. I wasn’t snotty while I said it, just matter of fact and I said “I’m sorry” to start.
What do you think? Was I a dick?
And seriously. Rick Scott.
Just Some Fuckhead
I think your mistake was speaking up for the stupid elderly people milling around out front? Are those cretinous fucks not able to go speak to the manager themselves? They can sure as fuck fuck up an election before they eat a dirt sandwich.
Fuckers.
NotMax
Really dependent on the tone and inflection uttered but based on what is posted, no.
But still and all, in the neighborhood – you can see dick from there.
Violet
The manager was a dick for not immediately going outside and getting carts for his customers.
Jerzy Russian
I don’t think you were a dick.
I was in Steubenville once. Jesus Tits, that one time was enough.
zadig
You weren’t a dick until you mentioned Rick Scott’s victory again. Dammit.
rikyrah
My Governor – Quinn of Illinois – Lost to a Romney wannabe.
For those who didn’t vote..
the 53 million dollar man already told your azzes that he doesn’t believe in the minimum wage, and that the half-million who got access to basic healthcare because of the expansion of Medicaid WOULD NOT have gotten it under him..
when he comes for you…STFU and take it.
Brendan in Charlotte
No. And FFS, NC – Thom Tillis ??? In Cartman shorthand…F, fity, F, F, F !!!!!!!!!
srv
Across the street is a construction site. For four months, construction dude with turbo diesel truck has been parking it out front and running his truck for an hour several times a week.
Early last week, I finally confronted him with a very polite WTF? He’s recharging the trucks 2nd battery because it keeps discharging. He’s replaced the battery several times “they can’t figure out what’s wrong, but I’m getting a new battery in two weeks.” I offer him my trickle charger if he’ll stop running his FUCKING diesel truck outside my living room window for an hour.
He looks at me and says over the fucking din of the truck engine “I told you I’m getting a new battery, are you deaf or something?”
I realized he’s too stupid to know it isn’t the battery. I called him a fucking douchebag and walked off. Truck no longer parks out front.
There’s an old Jim Jones saying: “If I’d hated you more, a little bit more, we would have had a lot less trouble.”
Words to live by.
Brendan in Charlotte
@rikyrah: Also, for those who didn’t vote…when i hear you bemoaning the geniuses you didn’t vote against being so vile, I’m gonna give y’all a fat lip. As i already told an old boss of mine who’s already crowing “I’ll be in the poor house because of these idiots, but you’ll be in line right behind me. Because they’ll come for your stuff too.”
KG
@Violet: yeah, that’s my thought. his proper response should have been, “oh, i’m sorry about that, we’ll bring some in right now” and then either done it himself or got a stocker to do it.
Comrade Scrutinizer
@Brendan in Charlotte: Billionaires, come to NC, we live to toss your salad.
NotMax
beltane
I read that overall turnout was only around 38%. Since you can be sure that every last one of the 27%ers showed up to vote it’s no surprise that this was a rout. Does any other “democracy” have such low voter participation as ours?
NotMax
Fixed for blockquote fail.
Might suggest (should it ever come up again) that you instead begin with “I just wanted to let you know.”
Also too, would suggest going to the courtesy/customer service counter rather than seeking out someone on the floor.
Just Some Fuckhead
Luke Russert lost all of that baby fat, cleared up his complexion and got rid of that hideous pubic hair looking perm. I think he may be able to make it in the business on his own merits now.
JenJen
I will just never, ever get you, Florida.
And you weren’t a dick, Cole. Not this time.
FlipYrWhig
You’re the dick, but for a different reason: for helping old people. Fuck them. Let them wander around until they die of neglect. Or being run over in a parking lot by a motorized or non-motorized vehicle. Or being gnawed by badgers until they get a staph infection in their weird medical device implants.
Tommy
Wow. I was away from a computer and smartphone for the entire evening. I sit down and it is a freaking bloodbath in my district and state (Quinn is done as well). I am looking for the number, but not sure somebody has been my House rep for 60+ years that wasn’t a Democrat. Well until now and he is a crazy dude. Look I can handle losing elections. And there are sane Republicans out there, like my parents and many other people I know. But who my district just elected, Mike Bost, is just flat out embarrassing.
Enyart just had no personality. I almost long for the man he replaced, Jerry Costello who held the IL 12th for decades. Never saw Jerry Costello on a national news program. But he was almost always listed as one of the ten most powerful people in the House. And my gosh he could bring home the bacon. When the Air Force base a few miles from me got listed on BRAC he got a $750M airport built in my town of 5,500 people (now 8,700). It is joint use with the Base of both the air tower and runway. Saved the base and 32,000 jobs. Brings something like 7 billion a year in revenue to my area.
My gut, and he would never say when asked, but I bet Bosh would close the darn base. But I guess we shall see.
I am just in something of a bad mood at the moment.
West of the Cascades
We are in for a boatload of suck for the next two years, aren’t we?
Corner Stone
Fuck you Iowa. Just go fuck yourselves and fucking secede already.
I have to look at and listen to Joni Fucking Ernst?
FUCK YOU!
Corner Stone
Holy Shit! Joni Ernst is fucking crazy. Just fucking hog balls crazy.
Corner Stone
Huh Huh Huh!
Plastic breadbags. Huh huh huh!!
beltane
Next time I hear someone mocking Italians for repeatedly voting for Berlusconi I am going to tell them to shove it. Compared to the people we elect here, that corrupt old whoremonger is a veritable philosopher king.
In fact, based on what we’ve seen tonight, Americans have no right to criticize anyone.
Corner Stone
Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh!!
beltane
@Corner Stone: At this point, all the states should secede. Iowa is not alone in its suckitude.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: Is this aimed at the “Just let Texas secede already” people?
Corner Stone
God damn, she is fucking crazy.
Iowa, what the everloving fuck?
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh, no. Not at all. Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh!!
Just Some Fuckhead
@Corner Stone: I love that soulless cackle she inserts between sentences. And who can ever get enough of hearing how great Iowa and America are?
Juicy_Joel
Personally I think starpoint gemini 2 and elite dangerous are better games in the same genre.
Corner Stone
@beltane: Bunga Bunga! Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh!!
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: I’ve spent time in Oklahoma.
beltane
I will never secede from this blog. It is a tiny atoll of sanity in an immense ocean of horror.
Baud
@beltane:
That’s how I feel.
Corner Stone
Thom Tillis!
Maybe Kay didn’t assert how hard she voted for Obama?
NotMax
@Corner Stone, et al.
Phyllis Schlafly wants her hair back.
beltane
@Corner Stone: If p*$$y was the only thing the Republicans were after, this country would be a far more livable place.
MomSense
Anyone else creeped out by Ernst’s laugh?
Corner Stone
I’m waiting for the Obamapologists here to explain all the losses tonight.
Morzy? Askew? Trentrunner? Triassic? Douchecanoe punk raven?
Omnes Omnibus
zschultz15
@zschultzWPT
Things walker crowd booed in burke concession speech; lombardi reference, unions, minimum wage increase, woman’s right to choose.
Corner Stone
Nice knowing you Ms. Hagan.
beltane
If I didn’t have children, I’d be laughing like crazy right now. Luckily for them, they are also eligible for dual citizenship.
mai naem
@Just Some Fuckhead: Pubic hair looking perm? Isn’t that Rand Paul’s specialty? I am just gonna start buying a lot of popcorn to eat while watching the Republican clown car convention of debates. Pretty sure popcorn futures are going to spike in the next year. I wonder if Joni Ernst will reach over and pull off Rand Paul’s hair piece during a debate. Or maybe his hair piece will move like his dad’s eye brow piece moved during the 2012 debates.
NotMax
@NotMax
Dang it, somehow excised the first part. Meant it to be:
She’d better wrap up her inane rambling soon, Phyllis Schlafly wants her hair back.
Tommy
@Just Some Fuckhead: It should be interesting to see what she does. I know this is a small item in the grand scheme of things, but the Charles P. Pierce post where he talked with her while in Iowa, well the intro of the post with him on the press campaign bus he seemed stunned that there were wind turbines, in all the corn fields Iowa has, for as far as the eyes could see. Maybe a little known fact that Tom Harkin got that ball rolling with the state with tax credits while he was in the Senate (wish the same would happen in my state of IL — but not yet) and on the ag committee. Iowa is quickly working on generating more wind-powered energy than any other state. That is pretty darn amazing, and cool, when you think about it. Bet Joni Ernst would cut that tax credit in a heartbeat.
beltane
@Corner Stone: This really goes beyond Obama. It is the fruition of Citizens United and there might not be a damn thing anyone to the left of Chris Christie can do about it.
The Dangerman
@West of the Cascades:
Boatload? Aircraft carriers full of suck.
Corner Stone
@beltane:
No it doesn’t. First Iron Law of BJ, don’t live up to certain standards and expectations, all your pain are belong to us.
Omnes Omnibus
Jordan Ellenberg @JSEllenberg
By the way, you guys who are bummed about not getting to goof on Michele Bachmann anymore are going to lo-o-o-o-ve Glenn Grothman
32m ago
Jordan Ellenberg @JSEllenberg
People freaking out should keep in mind that the US didn’t suddenly become a left-wing country in 2008 and it’s not a right-wing country now
TCG
@Corner Stone: The racist who don’t like Obama came out and voted in full force against him by voting against Democrats. What’s to explain on Obama’s behalf? Is it his fault how awful and racist most white people still are? Please don’t tell me you are crazy enough to think anything else happened here tonight.
I guess that’s my Obamapology.
piratedan
For those folks (along with myself) who thought that people would wake up and smell the shit that the GOP has been shoveling are just sadly fucking mistaken. Obviously shutting down the government and making a woman’s right to choose just short of running an obstacle course and watching school shootings happen about once every two weeks is just exactly what America wants, hell what America NEEDS. So I hope that we can all comfort each other here while we watch the stage show that’s about to unfold and see the media dance to the “Obama’s a dictator” tune for the next two years because the GOP is concerned about America’s future.
Let’s hope that none of our beloved Supreme Court justices croak anytime soon or we’ll all have a lot longer time to unfuck what is sure to be wrong with our country by the time that this wrecking crew gets done… I sure as hell hope that we’re collecting security deposits from these goons.
Eljai
Well, here in California, the polls closed an hour ago and they’re projecting Jerry Brown the winner in the governor’s race. That’s all I got.
TCG
@Corner Stone: So all of the people who voted for Republicans tonight are fomer Obama voters that he disappointed? Disappointment isn’t the motivation. It’s racism, resentment and tribalism.
The Dangerman
@beltane:
All the money in the world can’t help if you don’t have an Elevator message; the Right had lots of “short and sweet” messages to beat the Left with (Benghazi, Ebola, ISIS, Obamacare, the list goes on). What did the Left have for an Elevator message? Not a whole lot beyond War on Women and Voting Rights and, obviously, that wasn’t enough.
Hill Dweller
This country deserves everything it gets.
Deecarda
Noooo Kay! I am doomed to be represented by Tom Tillis, Richard Burr, and live in the district that sends Virginia Foxx back to DC every 2 years. I’m moving back to PA.
eemom
@Corner Stone:
Shut up, asshole.
Corner Stone
Brownback.
Tommy
@beltane: Citizens United is the problem I do believe. In the IL 12th a Republican won for the first time in 70 years. I said 60 in another comment, but found it was actually 70 years. Ponder that for a few. The last month the DNC and the Democratic Congressional Committee have come in hard with ads for Enyart.
But for several months some PACs, names I’ve never heard of, blanketed this area with ads for Bosh. I got rid of cable about a year ago, but I think every third ad, I know that is hard to believe, but every third ad on Hulu was for Mike Bost. They ran so often I can recite them from memory.
And they were very well done ads (as an ad guy once for 15+ years). If I had not done my research on him and just listened to the ads I would have thought it was the best guy around. Not that he was the crazy dude he is.
NotMax
@The Dangerman
And a whole lot of vetos.
Corner Stone
@eemom: Whut’s the matter, punkin?
It MATTERS when people do or do not attach their lips to his ass.
mai naem
Well, Crazy Eyes KashnKari just conceded in the Republic of Kalifornia. At least that GOP political career got nipped in the bud.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: I do rather think that you have made your point.
sharl
MD Governor race still too close to call, but local radio reporter (WAMU 88.5) mingling among Democrat Anthony Brown’s crowd reports a lot of dismayed and glum faces. FWIW, rumors of a Brown concession speech have started. Some of that is probably the usual wingnut ratfuckery, but apparently similar murmurs taking place among the Brown supporters, according to the reporter. Fewer outstanding precinct results from heavily Dem areas are left.
Aaaaand, AP just called it for the Republican, Larry Hogan. Yikes!
ETA: Oops, put this in the wrong post. Sorry ’bout that!
mai naem
@Corner Stone: Please tell me Brownback at least lost. I don’t really give a shit about Brownback but,hey, you gotta find any silver lining at this point.
The Dangerman
@NotMax:
I think we are going to be in for the Mother of all Shutdowns and I could see a Debt Limit fight that comes awfully fucking close to a default (though, same as with impeachment; they aren’t THAT stupid to allow a default to happen).
Tommy
This is the question I have. And I think a pretty important one. Now we have lost the Senate will we now play “hardball” with filibusters the way the Republicans have the last six years? Or will be fold and allow bills to come to the floor for a vote, for a vote we know we will lose and we know Obama will veto. Bills the Republicans NEVER would have let come to the floor, even if they were passed out of Committee.
That is the question I have. And what I think, is we will let it happen. We will refuse to play the “hardball” the Republicans did and put Obama in the terrible position of using a veto pen on almost a weekly basis. I so hope I am wrong, but I fear I am not.
In a related issue, will be put individuals up for confirmation that will please the Republicans and get confirmed or put up who we think is best for the job. Keep in mind the Republicans will say we need to please them. While they’d never, NEVER in a millions years do the same for us. I hope our Senate members understand this simple fact.
Elizabelle
I think this is Citizens United.
We need some Supreme Court vacancies on the conservative side, or our democratic republic is truly going to be gone.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Getting slaughtered here in San Diego tonight at least with the absentees. What the fuck is going on? Jesus shitballs if these results keep up we’re fucked beyond belief for years.
Hill Dweller
@The Dangerman: I hope the Republicans burn the f’n country down.
Wutang
The riverlands are on fire!
srv
@Hill Dweller: Good and hard.
beltane
@The Dangerman: Someone will have to convince the 62% of voters who didn’t vote that Republicans are a degenerate race of mutants who cause cancer and drink the blood of newborns. They may appear human but they are not. Then we would need a media outlet to spread the message 24/7 until even the most sane among us is convinced that every last Republican in the country is a dirty animal carrying poverty and disease wherever they go.
It could be done, not sure it should be done.
Freemark
I got to vote for my neighbor Tom Wolf (not exactly a neighbor he lives 2 miles away, but tonight he is my next door neighbor). Its not often I’m glad to live in PA, but tonight PA feels down right progressive compared to the rest of the country.
Arclite
Were you a dick? Probably not.
Rick Scott? He’s a dick. A big smelly hairy one.
JenJen
Think tonight is bad? 2016 Horse Race talk starts in earnest tomorrow.
Omnes Omnibus
@Freemark: Yeah, well, I live near Ann Althouse, so you win.
Violet
@Tommy:
Sorry, Tommy, you’re wrong. All Republicans are insane or evil. If your parents are voting for them, they have lost their minds or they wish hard upon their children and grandchildren and community.
Just stop with the excuse making. They are either insane or making the decision to harm people. There is no middle ground. There are no good or sane Republicans.
Why the need to toss that out there? Sane and/or good Republicans do not exist. You are delusional yourself if you think it.
beltane
@Elizabelle: We will be exactly like the other countries of the Western Hemisphere save Canada, with the exception being that our culture is more impoverished than theirs. Perhaps geography is destiny and our country is just another former colony that happened to get a little too full of itself.
Alicia
Words cannot express how awful I feel for the people that have shitbags like Tillis, Ernst, etc. as their senators or Snyder, Scott, Walker, LePage as their governors.
All voters heard about was how awful Obama was and how he wasn’t doing his job, forget the fact that the economy has started to improve and unemployment was down. The Democrats did a horrible job getting their message out and the Citizens United money/Koch money didn’t help. Of course I’m hearing about low turnout across the board for traditional Dem voting branches (that low turnout stat for women is frightening).
The country was headed back on the right track but I guess the majority of voters prefer we be a third-world country.
With tonight’s wins the Repubs are going to buckle down on the batshittery – acting like deep assholes worked for them like gangbusters in the midterm elections, no chance in hell they dial it down. The wingnuttery will be turned up to triple digits.
@Freemark:
Agreed. Even though I have DINO Cuomo as my governor, at least he’s not a teabagger that will put forward stupid shit like personhood amendments. NYS is totally corrupt but at least I don’t have to worry about my gay co-workers getting fired simply because they are gay or my abortion rights being chipped away. NY feels like an oasis compared to most parts of the country.
Death Panel Truck
I hope that douchebag Clint Didier loses tonight. I even voted for the Republican Dan Newhouse to help that happen, and it’s only the second Republican I have ever voted for. Years ago I voted for Sid Morrison who held the same seat in the 1980s.
Deecarda
@Omnes Omnibus:
Your presence is being requested in the non-politics thread.
The Dangerman
@JenJen:
Hillary was hitting the trail pretty hard in these midterms; I don’t know of a single candidate she was stumping for that won (maybe New Hampshire). Kinda hard to get payback if all the people you stumped for lost.
piratedan
@Hill Dweller: apparently standing beside the burning building with a gas can and a flamethrower wasn’t convincing enough for some voters… they wanted something more than proof and motive… they asked questions about faith and suggested that maybe the building had been asking for it, citing the way that it was provocatively painted…..
Omnes Omnibus
@Violet: I as I have said a number of times, I no longer give any benefit of a doubt to Republicans. I assume that they are vicious assholes until they prove otherwise. They seldon do.
beltane
@Violet: Members of extremist parties can be just as superficially pleasant in person as anyone else. Being “nice” in private in no way rules out being a monster in one’s public role. I wish people could understand this.
NotMax
@beltane
ManifestMany pest destiny.Tommy
@beltane: I am can’t stop watching the TV show Sleepy Hollow, even though it went off the rails for me a long time ago. What I love is the main character is Ichabod Crane. Awoken from like 1778 in today’s world. His rifts on how the world has changed, not in a good way, keep me watching.
Last night they voted like we did today. He couldn’t vote, because how would he explain who he is :). As he goes to the polls with his partner he says something like it is a crime that only 40% of us vote. He fought through British lines for his, our right to vote. Americans today can barely form a line.
I bet most people didn’t catch all of that, waiting for the “headless” horsemen and all the action. But I felt pretty good social commentary and kudos to the writers.
Steve from Antioch
Can we take a moment to reflect on what assholes Ginsburg and Breyer are?
The both could have retired several months ago and there were enough votes in the Senate to go nuclear if necessary.
Now, not a chance.
Marcion
Don’t mourn, organize.
Yeah, this is bad. But there is always a path forward. We have survived way worse than two years of a Tea Party congress as a country.
Item one: The GOP brand is not in a good way. As of the end of October only 21% of Americans approve of the job they were doing in Congress. Democrats are still doing better at 29%. That is not great at all, but much of that decline has come from the perception that they were at least partially responsible for all this gridlock in Washington. They won’t have that hurting them anymore. And, does anyone think the congressional GOP will be covering themselves in glory anytime soon? With what? Tilting at the impeachment windmill? Passing a fetal personhood bill? Holding 5,324 hearings on Benghazi? The bigger the spread between those two numbers gets, the better the chance of taking back the House and the better the chance of a wave election that can take back state houses.
Item two: The “moderate” GOPers, particularly in the Senate, will not have cover for their extremism anymore. Now Mark Kirk and Susan Collins will be expected to actually pass the 70th repeal of Obamacare or whatever. Many of these people are up for reelection in 2016. Either they will join in with the extremists or foster more GOP infighting – neither of these will be great for the brand.
Item three: As per the above, the GOP will be trying to actually pass their crazy shit. No longer does the 45th Obamacare repeal attempt or attempt to gut the safety net get relegated to backpage news about Congressional deliberations or “House passed shit, nothing happens” bylines – no, either it goes into effect or gets vetoed. The GOP’s craziness will be a lot more visible.
Item 4: Turnout was 38% this election. That may be the lowest in US history. Meanwhile, there is an overwhelming opinion that this country is on the wrong track. There’s enormous, enormous potential for us to do better if we can generate the right circumstances.
Don’t mourn: organize!
Omnes Omnibus
@Deecarda: Thanks.
Elizabelle
@Alicia:
The big media companies were in the tank for the GOP. You could see it in what they covered, and did not cover.
I get the sense CBS may be waking up to the consequences.
NBC is quite pro-Republican. They’re all about money and warmongering.
Democrats may not have been as poor at messaging as you think. Look at all the crap that came out of Joni Ernst’s mouth, and she got a free ride. Lots of cozy profiles of her as a mom and combat veteran and pig castrator. Not much about her policies, and the candidate herself has said a load of scary stuff.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve from Antioch: Oh fuck right off.
Hill Dweller
@Elizabelle: There has always been an absurd double standard for Dems and Repubs in the Beltway. They call it ‘balance’.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus: I sort of agree with Steve.
I love the Notorious RBG, but what happens if you get a Republican in the White House in 2016?
Too big a risk.
We need some young justices.
The damage that George W Bush and Richard B Cheney did will outlive them in this country too.
Worst Supreme Court I have ever seen. What if Scalia lives to 95?
skerry
We can forget any action on climate change. EPA regulations will not change. Fracking everywhere. Keystone XL pipeline. More oil train bombs.
Time to make a difference is now and we won’t. The survivors in the next decades and centuries will look upon us with scorn.
The Earth will survive. It is questionable that the human race will.
Violet
@Omnes Omnibus: Me either. I will never vote for a Republican again, ever, for any reason. They get no benefit of the doubt. They are evil. They actively wish harm upon people and the country.
@beltane: I’m sure most horrific dictators were nice enough guys to their families and pets. They were still evil people. Republicans are evil. End of discussion. No middle ground.
Corner Stone
@Violet:
Ask them about Pat Quinn. Either they voted for him, and are D’s, or…
Alicia
@Elizabelle:
Excellent comments.
True, the media was mostly in the tank for the GOP right off the bat. These are the media that lament the fact that Obama isn’t “folksy” and pout that he doesn’t have cute nicknames for them like Dubya did.
Morzer
@Elizabelle:
I am beginning to think that Scalia might just be a sparkly vampire walking among us with weapons-grade sunscreen.
jl
Maybe Mr. Cole was a dick, and maybe he was not.
All I know is that whatever Mr. Cole is, now the whole damn Congress will give him some stiff competition at being a dick.
Not sure Cole can win that one.
Ugh.
Tommy
@Violet: Well you are wrong. First off my parents on a national and state-wide level have started voting for Democrats. There are times I talk about my little rural town here. How we have fiber wired to all government buildings and schools (through Federal funds). We are looking at offering free wi-fi to the entire town. How over the course of six months we redid our entire electrical infrastructure (slamming poles into the ground and rewiring the ENTIRE town) to continue to get power through a co-op of other small towns. How we voted to raise our taxes to build a new $60M high school. Then again for a $25M primary school. How we raised our taxes to build more parks.
When I talk about these things people are like that is “way cool.”
My Mayor and City Council are Republicans. They are sane Republicans. When I see all the “crazy” on TV I wonder WTF. I think “who are these people?” Those are not the people I know. We may disagree on this or that, but I can have a sane and often productive conversation with them.
A lot of our advancements are because we hired a “professional” City Manager that kind of runs things. But again, all the crazy I see, and from your tone I bet many in your district, that is just not how it is around me. Things don’t have to be as bad as you think they are. Or at least we have something of a “happy middleground” where I live. And I have to admit, kind of nice.
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
Republicans like LePage are in fact vicious assholes. I can’t think of anything more vicious than denying poor people access to health care. People will die.
Elizabelle
@Hill Dweller:
What is ironic is that you and I read the newspapers. Even pay for subscriptions. I pay for 3 national papers. We support their reporting.
NPR’s audience is probably down. I wince every time Mara Liasson opens her yap. Rarely catch much of their stuff.
This makes me want to stop supporting and consuming news. That I am paying for the privilege of reading, and is dreadfully skewed. It really does.
The big media companies are seeding their own demise.
Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are more respected than actual journalists.
And Colbert is retiring his persona on December 18.
I feel like we’re in the Weimar America age.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: No, I rather think I have not.
All the fucking political geniuses up in this piece like to play their trump card. And it ain’t shit.
Alicia
Scalia is definitely having his minions conduct ritual sacrifices so that he can refresh his blood circulation. This fucker will probably be on the court until he’s 100.
Ruckus
@piratedan:
Well played.
Morzer
@Elizabelle:
Weimar would be more fun than this – and with better art. How long before the GOP starts introducing even more blatant vote suppression schemes and shooting any one who objects in public?
We’ve already seen the White Murderer’s Charter Law aka Stand Your Ground plus biased white juries. I have serious doubts that the right wing crazies are going to stop there.
jl
Jodi Ernst won? Lord have mercy.
beltane
@Elizabelle: I haven’t watched any TV news for a couple of years and no longer listen to NPR. On those rare occasions when I do tune in, the propagandist nature of virtually all mass media is glaringly obvious.Journalists are paid lavish salaries to manipulate the public in whichever way those who pay them the lavish salaries want.
Morzer
@NotMax:
Maniac festiny.
Morzer
@jl:
Even worse, her insane sister Joni did.
cckids
@The Dangerman:
That is a truly large assumption, my friend. Several of them were cheering for a default, and very few of them look to be bright in any way.
Tommy
@Corner Stone: You would be asking me. Mom voted for Quinn. Dad won’t talk about who he votes for, but I bet it was Bruce Rauner. It pains me to say that, but in the state of Illinois we have this strange habit of voting for a wealthy Republican “business” men for governor.
I could talk about this for hours, but Quinn hit close to a “perfect storm.” No personality. Connected to Blago. Raised taxes on the middle class. Still a state in fiscal ruin.
Rauner was smart. All he would talk about is creating jobs and lowering taxes. Never got into any social issues that doom many Republicans in this pretty “blue” state. But some of his proposals are frighten. One would cut 1 out of every 7 public school teachers.
It will be interesting to see what he does, since at least in Springfield, Democrats are still totally in charge.
Ruckus
@Elizabelle:
The only way to convince corporations that they or their product sucks is to quite buying from them. Problem is a lot of people have to do that, one or a even a couple thousand doesn’t phase big companies at all.
Violet
@Tommy:
If they have started voting for Democrats they are by definition no longer Republicans. Nor insane. Or evil.
Didn’t your state just elect a Republican governor? All that nice money coming your way to build all those nice things–prepare for it to stop. Then you’ll get to see just how great Republicans are. Right now you’re living in a state where you’re reaping the benefit of Democratic policies. You’re going to get fucked. Those of us in red states can tell you all about it. Get ready. Those mythical “sane Republicans” you’re waxing lyrical about–you’ll get to see just how sane they are when they cut funding for all the nice things you like so much.
lamh36
@Tommy: I thunk they fold and out it sell on Obama since he’s a lame duck and then use as his vetoes to distance the sleeves from him even more so in 2016.
I also expect that the Dems u like the GOP will not hod together as steadfastly as the Republicans did. McConnell said they would block whatever Obama put up for agenda and low and behold they held up. can Harry Reed do the same with Dems? doubt it, when they had majority you still had fuckers willing to buck the party.
So Dems hold pattern until HRC in 2016, since it’s their only chance at getting back on top
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: RBG is stunningly effective as a writer and a voice on the Court. Breyer is a good solid guy on most issues. There are arguments that could be made that stepping down would have been a good idea, but there are argumenst going the other way. They aren’t assholes for staying in a position where they are forces for good.
skerry
@Tommy: Thought your parents lived in Indiana
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
It’s worth asking just who these hypothetical replacements that would be as good as RBG might be. I am not taking bets that there’s a long list of names in that category.
skerry
@Omnes Omnibus: I haven’t prayed in a long time, but I will begin to pray for RBG’s good health. No way anyone like her would make it through this next Congress.
The Dangerman
@cckids:
Not a snowballs chance in hell their Masters (Wall Street, Koch Brothers, et al) let it happen.
Now, we will get far too close to one to even think about staying sober through THAT crisis, but we will not default.
ETA: Don’t get me wrong; the next two years will redline the Suck Meter, but the really crazy shit like impeachment or default? not gonna happen.
John Cole +0
I’m not sure how you blame Obama for this loss- the Democrats wouldn’t let him on the campaign trail, and spent all their time running from him and from popular issues. Fer fucks sake, minimum wage increases passed in several places and the Dems ran away from them in those races.
lamh36
I guess this means all the people on the left who hated Eric Holder is really gonna hate the next AG, that is if we ever get another one confirmed in 2 years.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: The argument is that a 45 year old who is 75% of a RBG is worth it. A case can be made for either side. Suggesting that she is an asshole for staying on the Court deserves a fuck off. Just saying.
Mason
There’s a good UT2004 following at the SOL server. Freon TDM. Good times.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, that’s true. And it’s sad to be considering cannibalizing the (older) liberal members of the Supreme Court because the conservatives are intractable and will leave the court only in coffins.
RBG is a wonderful writer and moral force.
May Dog grant her and Pope Francis many more decades of productive work and success.
Hal
Chris Matthews is delusional. Maddow and Hayes both said Republicans have been rewarded for their intransigence, but Matthews insists they will now work with the President.
Of course the onus is now on Obama to cooperate. Sheesh.
Omnes Omnibus
@John Cole +0: He campaigned for Burke in Wisconsin. I don’t think adhering to or running from Obama made a difference this year. Oddly, that is the point Corner Stone is making.
Elizabelle
@lamh36:
Funny. You’re right. There may be some long faces in the Holder house tonight too.
Although: maybe renewed fire in the belly at looking at voter suppression.
How is PBO’s actual birth state treating you?
My family lived in Pearl City Heights (?) on Oahu when I was little. Loved it.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
Alright, but who are these hypothetical young guns? That’s the bit of the argument that’s consistently missing and I think it has a degree of importance to it. Sure, RBG is going to either croak or quit at some point, but I’d like to see the ducks in a bit more of a row before that day comes.
Elizabelle
@Hal:
I cannot abide Chris Matthews. He’s on drugs.
Did you notice that the media stars are discussing “tax reform” as a suitable project for the next 2 years?
Who do you think will benefit from THAT?
Morzer
@Elizabelle:
You just wait for the Ryan-Brownback flat tax project to really take off.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@John Cole +0:
Practically speaking, it really won’t matter. The narrative already is set that this was a total utter repudiation of Obama and now he has to stop being a hyper-partisan dictator and work with the GOP, who are what America really want to run things because Dems are Super Commie Bastards.
The next two years are going to be a shitshow, and I’m not convinced that the seats up for grabs in 2016 will make up for it, especially considering just how fucking far right things swung today.
lamh36
@Elizabelle: it is wonderful. I have a tour tomorrow of the island for my birthday and hopefully weather permits this night will all be forgotten and I can exhale
Mr Stagger Lee
I-594 requiring background checks for gun purchases in Washington State is winning, while I-591 the keep yur hands off my gunz is losing. Ammosexual Hair is on fire. Marysvile_Pilchuck shooter trutherism/false flag is coming in 3…2..1..
Elizabelle
@John Cole +0:
Maybe the real silver lining of a horrible evening: stop with the corporate Democrat spiel and go with a more liberal approach? Because Democrats might be behind their own supporters’ curve?
Could be. Interesting thought.
Running from Obama worked as well this cycle as keeping Bill Clinton at arm’s length did for Al Gore.
Allison Grimes Lundergan was announced down for the count at 7:01 p Eastern.
zippity
I think this just confirms that hate and fear-amplified by a whole lot of money-are bigger motivators than actually wanting to improve things. I actually heard people say that they were voting for Rauner, and if he didn’t do a good job-they could just vote him out next time. There were a lot more TV ads for my IL state senate and house contests than the US house, and BOTH of them flipped to R. The republican candidates both talked about the D’s cutting the teachers pensions and how they broke their promises. And too many people are too stupid to know that the R’s would cut them even more. Just really frustrating. As I said starting in 2008-I’m just really tired of the truth not mattering anymore. People just believe what they want to, regardless of any evidence to the contrary.
eemom
Tonight does suck, but honestly, some of you people are losing your fucking minds.
Tommy
@skerry: Nope on the Wabash River, IL side. Stones throw from Indiana. Maybe that is why you thought that. When my mom got sick, she went to a hospital in IN. They often shop there more then in IL. Kind of the same for me. Right on the IL/MO border. I can tend to spend, when I am not in my house, more time in MO then in IL.
Alicia
I don’t think Obama would have made a difference. Crist campaigned with Michelle and was openly supportive of Obama and he got scorched by Nosferatu Rick Scott.
Someone above said that turnout was only 38%. That is just dismal – barely over a quarter of eligible voters voted. The people that did vote were mostly the hardcore teabagger crazies who show up to vote for everything – no matter how small the race. Most people just couldn’t be bothered to get off their ass and vote. Obama could have campaigned with every Democrat and it wouldn’t have mattered. The Dems have a real problem getting Democratic voters out in non-Presidential years. The issue is how to get the apathetic voter to the polls in midterms.
Helen
@Tommy: Stop it with this shit. Stop with the “they are republicans but the good kind” bullshit. There are no longer good republicans. Your parents can afford, both financially and morally to be republicans, given that they have, according to you, more money than they can spend in 5 lifetimes.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@eemom:
Considering the extent of how badly we got shitkicked and where, it’s kind of hard not to get the impression that the GOP simply is not allowed to pay any consequences anymore. The country simply will forgive them for damn near anything and hold grudges against Dems for every single fucking thing.
NotMax
Over the course of the next two years, every Post Office will be named after Reagan.
beltane
@Elizabelle: The people who pay the media stars do not want to pay taxes. If the media stars did not do the job for which they were hired, they would be replaced with others who did. People do what they can to have a better life for themselves. In the case of our media figures, this involves the dissemination of propaganda that is harmful to the citizens of their country.
Eljai
@John Cole +0: Chuck Todd basically blamed Obama this evening. I know, I know, why the F— am I watching Chuck Todd? I keep hoping Rachel will punch him in the junk. But I digress. I don’t know how anyone can call this a wave when less than half of us show up to vote. How bad do things have to get in this country before we learn? Don’t answer that.
Elizabelle
@eemom: Do we have a result in the Warner race yet?
Is it recount close? I would really like a clean result.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: I am not making the argument, I am just noting it. I don’t know who is on the shortlist. One of my two favorite Justices, William O. Douglas, stayed on too long. The other, Bill Brennan, ended up being replaced by David Souter. I won’t condemn a Justice for staying on the job as long as he or she can do it.
beltane
@Eljai: Let us call it a wave of apathy and alienation from the political process. We are dangerously close to it being a time where voting, like churchgoing, is seen as an activity that only right-wing people engage in.
RK
Dems really took a beating. Don’t know why or what it means, but wow, this was a slaughter.
skerry
@Tommy: Yep. My mistake. Sorry.
Elizabelle
@Alicia:
I didn’t read it, but there may have been some NYTimes op ed yesterday (?) that maybe we should get rid of the midterms.
Gives the Congresscritters a longer term — 4 vs. 2 years, but how often do voters actually get to vote out incumbents?
Will hunt for the link for you.
Violet
@John Cole +0: Democrats have been running away from a populist message. It has resonance with voters, as can be seen by minimum wage votes. If Democrats don’t step up, Repubilcans will step in and take away the populist message.
Tommy
@zippity: Yeah. For the first time in 70 years the IL-12th went to a Republican (my district). I don’t even know what to say because Mike Bost is shit all crazy. And he won by a pretty large margin. Look my district isn’t “super liberal.” Not a district like some in San Fran, NYC, or Vermont.
But we don’t elect Republicans. If for no other reason then unions matter where I live. Oh and education. I am sure there are “home schoolers” but where I live the thing we are most proud of are our schools. Public schools. Charter schools are laughed at where I live. I think it is the coolest thing in the world we promote our schools 24/7.
Elizabelle
@beltane:
Excellent comment. You may be on to something.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
I am not blaming you for it – but there are too many people who just assume that replacing RBG is as easy as finding a corrupt Republican.
The Dangerman
@Eljai:
Easy to do; the Obamacare rollout was a travesty. He let the Right swiftboat him over Benghazi (I’m convinced that part of the story of Benghazi that can never come out is WTF the CIA was doing there). Appointing an Ebola Czar that wasn’t an MD was kinda stupid.
I’m an Obot and I see a lot of things Team Obama did wrong the past two years.
Helen
Earlier, when it was confirmed that we lost the senate I went on my FB page and did the bullshit “Well, the country has spoken” bullshit. I was snarky about it, but really, if this is what America wants, let ’em wallow in it.
I then went to bed. And 10 minutes later got up and deleted everything. I even deleted a re-posted Onion post with McConnell saying “Getting back to 10.9% unemployment and $5 gas will be difficult, but we’ll do it.” Har har har.
I have no more fucks to give.
Morzer
@The Dangerman:
You do realize that Obama wanted to appoint a highly qualified Surgeon General and was denied by the GOP? We shouldn’t have even needed an “Ebola Czar”. I fail to see how you can blame Obama for this one.
beltane
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: Our bench has also been decimated. The party is going to have to rebuild from scratch, yet they are going to try their hardest to foist people like Hillary Clinton and Andrew Cuomo on us. It may be difficult to recruit new blood because who in their right mind wants to step into the well-funded, media enabled, whipsaw of GOP character assassination. The billionaires have made it awfully difficult to campaign against anyone they don’t support. The insane over-reaction to the utterly harmless OWS demonstrations lets you know just how little tolerance there is for anyone who threatens the interests of the owners of this country.
Tommy
@Helen: Honestly fuck you. Don’t tell me to stop saying what I think. If you want to take apart what I think fine. Saying:
That is just easy. Low hanging fruit for an attack.
My parents have given away much of their money to causes. The top of the list, a women’s rape crisis center and Planned Parenthood. They give of their time in so many ways. Mom at the local hospital. Dad runs the local Historical Society and sits on the Board of Directors of the community college.
My mother runs elections in her district.
You know little of what you talk about. That somehow my parents don’t see eye to eye with you, so they are “evil.” That I would promote what they do makes me “evil.” It would seem to me you know not what you talk about.
piratedan
@The Dangerman: true, and ALL of it pales in comparison to what the GOP has done and said over the last four years… yet, do we hear anything about what the GOP controlled house has passed…. crickets, know why? because they haven’t passed anything. Shit, they don’t even allow things to come up for a vote and nary a peep from the media. We have serious issues confronting this country instead of any discussion of them (except on blogs) all we hear about is that Obama plays too much golf (not nearly as much as his predecessor) and how the economy isn’t recovering fast enough while Wall Street reached new highs, unemployment reaches new lows and the next breathless nothingburger of controversy that gets made up out of lint and scotch tape that will spell the end of this presidency.
It’s fucking tiresome to see how the playing field is tilted, especially when you’re trying to play fair
max
@Elizabelle: Do we have a result in the Warner race yet?
Sort of.
Is it recount close? I would really like a clean result.
According to the SBE feed to vpap.org, it’s Warner 1,066k to Gillespie 1049k, with 20 precincts out. According to the AP it’s Warner 1072k to Gillespie 1060k.
The AP’s 12k vote lead should be enough to avoid a recount.
2 things: In 2013, Herring was behind by a couple hundred votes when the precinct count got to where it is now. And Warner is right around McAuliffe’s 1069k votes. (The change – Gillespie got around 40k more votes than Cuccinelli, and Robert Sarvis, Libertarian (who ran in both races!) got about 100 thousand fewer votes the second time around.)
max
[‘Closer than I like, but much better than the Herring race.’]
A Humble Lurker
@Tommy:
And undo it all by voting Republican? That’s some Sisyphusian stuff there, man.
Emerald
Oh, c’mon folks! Why the long faces? You absolutely can count of the Rethugs doing the worst overreach in history. And this ain’t the first time a president has lost midterms in year six.
Ya gotta take the long view.
Rachel has it right last night. They cannot stop themselves from impeachment now. That will come because Obama will do his executive action on immigration reform (and, I hope, a buncha other stuff as well). As a result, the Latino population will be voting Democratic for as long and as hard as the black population does today. Gonna be a good half century at least before they forget. More will vote as time passes, too. That’s how we got rid of the Rethugs here in California. Our Latino population never forgot Prop 186, and they finally started voting in enough numbers to kick ’em out.
The public will be so disgusted at the impeachment they’ll elect Hillary (really, the Rs have no path to 270 electoral votes), whom the Rs have hated for decades even more than they hate Obama. OK, they won’t have their racism, but they’ll have a good dose of misogyny to fall back on.
The House, though, stays gerrymandered through probably 2030, I think, even with public anger at impeachment. That’s well and truly rigged, and is gonna stay that way.
But we’re not in for more Bush years. We’ve got the presidency and will keep that, and will get the Senate back next time. They can obstruct, but they can’t destroy.
Or so I tell myself.
The Dangerman
@Morzer:
Easy; I agree that there was no need for an Ebola Czar and that there should be a Surgeon General…
…but, if you ARE going to appoint an Ebola Czar, making the choice that was made was pretty dumb.
Violet
@NotMax: No, there will be no new Post Offices, Reagan-named or not. They are closing post offices all over the country. That’s what Republicans get you.
James E Powell
@TCG:
There is a point at which people just stop accepting that America is filled with rabid bigots and closeted, fearful bigots who vote accordingly. They have heard the point made so often that it no longer suffices. I do not know why this happens, but it does. People want the problem to go away without realizing that the racist people have not gone away, or changed their minds.
Obama is to blame because he stubbornly insisted on being black even though half the country made it clear that they did not want a black president no matter how beneficial his policies might be for them. In fact, they expressly stated that they did not want programs beneficial to them if Obama’s name were associated with the programs.
beltane
@piratedan: I
Playing fair when survival is at stake is foolish. What’s needed is to find a way to fight dirty because that is the only way the GOP will be fought.
Hal
@The Dangerman:
It’s not stupid at all. The guys job is coordinating the diverse groups working on the Ebola epidemic in Africa and the issues locally. No md needed. And seriously no one but wingnuts gives a fuck about benghazi.
Morzer
@The Dangerman:
Actually, no, I don’t think it was. The Ebola Czar needs to coordinate agencies and initiatives to deal with Ebola, not rush round the country vaccinating anyone who might be at risk (which, given we don’t have a vaccine as yet, might have been difficult). The skill set required from an MD and an administrator aren’t the same. You can argue that Obama might have chosen a different administrator, but the shouldabinanMD argument really doesn’t make sense.
beltane
@Emerald:
Or, the public will be so disgusted at impeachment that they will avoid all political coverage like it’s the plague, and conclude that politicians are horrible people whom one should never vote for.
Morzer
@beltane:
Or they might just follow Chucklehead Todd and conclude that only Ted Cruz and a bipartisan GOP House and Senate can possibly save us from the perils of faction.
beltane
Massachusetts called for Charlie Baker.
Looking at the numbers, Democratic turnout was only 1/2 that of 2012. The only people who showed up to vote this year were the nutjobs and highly engaged people like ourselves. Unfortunately, voting tends to be a use it or lose it thing, and the Republicans will do everything to make sure that a lot of people “lose it”.
The Dangerman
@piratedan:
Don’t get me wrong; I agree with your position that the Right have been destructive and they don’t get the blame they deserve. I guess my position is, if you want to blame Obama (which Chuckles probably creamed himself over), I can see the argument and can’t categorically reject that he deserves some blame.
It’s all about messaging and the Left’s messaging this time around sucked.
Omnes Omnibus
@The Dangerman: You are an idiot. Perhaps not in general, but definitely in this comment.
@Tommy: So explain to us why we should give any benefit of a doubt to someone who self identifies as a Republican. We know what their polices are. Saying you are a Republican more or less says you agree with those polices.
Elizabelle
@max: Thank you Max. Just pulled this off the WaPost:
Virginia runs clean elections. I observed the recount in the Herring v Obenshain attorney general race. Obenshain realized the vote total was not going to change that much, and graciously conceded before taking the count to the bitter end.
I find Gillespie’s comment about accepting the eventual outcome interesting. It’s thought he ran for Senate to build name recognition for a gubernatorial run.
Same reason Obenshain may have decided not to pursue a scorched earth effort once it became evident the votes had been pretty accurately tallied.
mai naem mobile
Maybe Obama needs to invest some of that skin lightening cream. Maybe he’ll pass for white and the stoopid of stoopid Americans will realize that OMG they have a white president and they ll start supporting his policies.
Violet
@Tommy:
And then vote for Republicans? Why? Republlicans want to shut down ever Planned Parenthood clinic in the country. Why do they give their money to a cause they then vote against?
piratedan
@Emerald: well I wish I could be hopeful, because they got punished for impeachment over a hummer, these times are different because we have a black man in office and thus far, the game plan of obstructionism and projection and bald faced lying has been a winner, both at the polls and in the media. I’ve got little reason to see that changing anytime soon. Everyone says that this is about Obama, yet no one on the GOP can effectively state which of his policies that they are against. They are against “Obamacare” but not the ACA. Then please tell me, what singular transgression that this President has performed in policy that the GOP finds so fucking egregious, other than being President while black. No one will say it, but it appears to be patently understood and as far as I can tell, America is fucking alright with that.
The Dangerman
@Hal:
You may be right but, again, it’s about messaging. Obama got the shit kicked out of him because he didn’t appoint an MD. If you are going to appoint someone, do it in a way that doesn’t get the shit kicked out of you. Or, better yet, say “fuck you, I don’t want a Czar, I want a Surgeon General”.
Morzer
@mai naem mobile:
I’d prefer not to have to listen to Chuck Todd and David Frum slobbering over each other about “Michael Jackson in the White House”.
Tommy
@Omnes Omnibus: I am a far left liberal.
I just noted that not all Republicans are crazy.
Seems that is up for conversation here.
BTW: you actually me of a racist comment here. You ought to expand on this.
Morzer
@The Dangerman:
Except that this isn’t about messaging. It’s about sensibly appointing a competent administrator at a time of unnecessary and embarrassing national panic. No messaging in history is going to overcome pathological stupidity and right wing fanatics cobbling together horror stories to fuel white panic. Obama already tried to get a very qualified Surgeon General. The GOP took their orders from the NRA terrorists – and paid no price for their obstructionism. Blame the media for their gross inadequacy as reporters of facts, but not the president who has done the right thing twice.
Tommy
@Violet: I don’t know. I really don’t. It is a strange thing. One I do not understand.
ruemara
@The Dangerman: The Left’s messaging. On what outlets? If they’re not invited on the shows, should they be breaking into the soundstages? The biggest flaw in the message critique is the fact that there is no mandatory rule that shows must have both sides on. You can craft the best message in the world, but you have to figure out how to get people to listen to you.
Vtr
I’m going to spend the rest of the night listening to to explanations on WFAN why the theGiants, the Jets, and the Knicks stink, and then face reality. Someone please listen to to Howard Dean,
Morzer
@Tommy:
Are your parents legacy Republicans? Did they perhaps inherit a family tradition of voting GOP without apparently realizing that they were voting to undo much of their own good work?
The Dangerman
@Omnes Omnibus:
What did I say that was wrong? I know the Rightwing Media will kick the shit out of Obama for breathing while black, but was the Obamacare Rollout a travesty? It was a huge fuckup. I don’t know how Obama could get Benghazi behind him but, the point is, he never did. I’ve argued about the Ebola thing enough already.
I think I said it above; I don’t blame Obama for this night … but I can see how the argument can be made. If your opposition are known arsonists you best make sure you don’t leave out the oily rags for them to light up.
beltane
@ruemara: Thank you. The Left has no problem with messaging. The Left has a problem with media access and media bias. There aren’t too many Left-wing billionaire who can fix the problem. Our messaging is confined to the internet.
Morzer
@beltane:
We have plenty of problems with messaging. Spinelessness and craven ass-covering abound – and who votes for that with any enthusiasm?
Elizabelle
Cancel the Midterms, appeared as NYTimes op ed this week. Authors are a Duke public policy professor and Duke student.
I think it’s an interesting idea. Takes on the campaign-industrial-media industry, which is killing actual democracy. This constitutional amendment may be as feasible as any other approach to paring back or eliminating Citizens United.
The public does not think it is seeing too little political advertising. The permanent campaign benefits a select and small few, to the detriment of the many.
Helen
@Tommy: Jeez Tommy why are you so mad? You bring up your parents in almost every post. Certainly you bring them up in every thread you comment on. Did you expect that on a very left leaning political blog you would not be questioned given the way you portray your parents? We are only reacting to what you tell us.
If you are looking for love, you are looking in the wrong place, Dude.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tommy:
Say it in a full sentence. Or should I just go looking for links to where you suggest that there might be something wrong with Black culture? I am wired and pissed off enough about what happened tonight that I am willing to do it just to be a dick.
Violet
@Tommy: It’s not sane behavior. Republicans are not sane. So it makes sense they are voting Republican, or at least your dad still is.
The Dangerman
@ruemara:
Seems to me you answered your own question.
I don’t have the answers on how to make people listen but there are far smarter people that should be able to figure it out.
srv
Well, now that that’s over, we need to look forward, not backward.
Walker/Cruz 2016?
beltane
@Morzer: The Democratic party is not the same as the Left. Any Democratic candidate or public thinker who put forward a compelling message about how the right-wing needs to be destroyed would be either ignored or ridiculed as “crazy”. If you were the billionaire owner of a cable network why would you do anything to present your enemies in a positive light? The Democrats who appear on TV are milquetoast fools because the owners of our mass media outlets want to do everything in their power to demoralize and discredit the left. If we fail to grasp what we’re up against we will have no chance at all of ever prevailing.
Morzer
@Helen:
I’ll note, for the record, that the best landlord I ever had was a Republican. The worst was a Democrat (as was the neighbor from hell). Republicans are horrendous at the macro level and as a group, but there are decent people among them, just as there are Democrats who are greedy corporate scum (remember Harold Ford?) or just repellent human beings (Lanny Davis, for one). If you go after Tommy’s parents in such hyperbolic terms, I don’t see why he should be expected to take it just because you’ve appointed yourself as some sort of Purity Inquisitor.
ruemara
@The Dangerman: No, that’s not an answer. Jesus, is there a sale on hardheads today? If we don’t have a media outlet, we don’t have anywhere to get a message to.
Fuck it, it’s not just the 27% batshit that fail to grok.
Morzer
@beltane:
Slightly confused by “nonvenomous”.
beltane
@The Dangerman: Are you suggesting what used to be called “the propaganda of the deed”? Because the best message in the world will not be heard if it is not broadcast.
Elizabelle
@ruemara:
I think you and beltane have had fabulous comments. It’s a huge, huge issue and not a level playing field. By design.
Hill Dweller
I predict the Beltway media will start calling filibusters a crime against humanity next year.
beltane
@Morzer: Spell check changed what I had written. It has been fixed.
Elizabelle
Tommy: please don’t take some of this personally, although you must understand:
I am a Virginian who voted, several times, for John Warner, a moderate Republican. He showed political courage in decrying his own party when it tried to run Oliver North as a candidate. I wanted to reward him.
I think he was a very good and decent public servant. (He was an early endorser of Democrat Mark Warner, no relation to him.)
But could I, in good conscience, vote for ANY Republican these days? Probably not, because they would caucus with active crazy radicals. It’s a horrible conundrum when you live in a one-party state. Virginia is not that, thank Dog.
But it saddens me that I could not support a John Warner in this day and age.
(Not like he could run as a Republican either, I guess….)
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: Tommy has portrayed his community as paragon of civic responsibility and his parents as decent Republicans. If his illusions crash about him tonight, it isn’t the fault of B-J commenters.
Eljai
@Elizabelle: That is an interesting idea. I wish there was some way to capitalize on it. The thing that drives me nuts is that the TV pundits talk as if the whole country voted in Obama in 2008 and 2012, and then tonight we all changed our minds. But we didn’t. Roughly two-thirds of us just don’t tune in for mid-terms.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus:
I do not want to see another pile on of Tommy, who is a kind and decent soul.
Not calling you out, per se, but it has happened before. With Tommy.
We can disagree without driving off valued commenters. (In principal ….)
Helen
@Morzer: What’s “hyperbolic” about what I said? Tommy has told us that his parents are the good kind of republicans and they have more money than they can spend in 5 lifetimes. That is what he has said.
That’s not hyperbolic. That’s paraphrasing.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
What illusions are you talking about? Tommy’s always been pretty clear that he doesn’t quite understand how his decent, community-oriented parents can vote for the GOP. The fault of some BJ commenters is in making ludicrous claims about how all Republicans are utterly evil. That simply isn’t true. Nor is it true that all Democrats are good, clean, upstanding people. Max Baucus probably created the most corrupt little group of lobbyists/former associates in the entire Senate. Lanny Davis would fellate a post-coital pedophile for a dime. Harold Ford would probably rebrand the KKK if you offered him an executive VP spot on tne board. Let’s not lose sight of some basic realities here just because we are all hurting after a bad day at the midterms.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
For those who keep trying to remind us that ‘the pendulum swings back’, all I can ask is ‘how much damage will be done before it actually swings back? Because it seems like 2008 and 2012 were aberrations enough to say that the pendulum never really swung back leftward. We won races, sure, but our politics have been on an irrevocable and apparently unstoppable backslide way way way to the right that it won’t come back from for at least a generation. The right wing pretty much owns damn near the entire country on the state level at this point, and as John Oliver pointed out before, the shit down below bubbles upward and stinks up everywhere else in the country.
I just….fuck all.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: Fair enough. I have a bit a of disagreement about/with this commenter. He and I addressed it directly above. I await his response. I am not trying to be snide.
Mnemosyne
To turn the conversation to my petty first-world problems: somewhere in this apartment of finite area is a box that holds all of the shoes that I wear most often. AND I CAN’T FUCKING FIND IT!!
Morzer
@Helen:
What’s hyperbolic is your refusal to accept that people can be Republicans and yet be decent people. Do I think most Republicans are decent people? No, not based on the evidence I’ve seen – but that doesn’t mean that there are no decent people in the Republican party. Given Tommy’s account of his parents, they sound like pretty good folks to me, and I don’t see what gives you any right to tell him what he ought to think about them.
James E Powell
These results suck, but we should all have seen it coming months ago. Maybe not Scott in Florida, but the senate was gone when no one came up with a way to light a fire under Democratic voters.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: Have you looked to the left?
Morzer
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
The problem with the pendulum is that it keeps hitting us over the head and stopping halfway on its return journey leftwards.
Morzer
@Mnemosyne:
Have you recently reorganized the apartment? When did you last see the box?
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: He can think what he wants about them, but I tend to see them a bit differently. As I mentioned, no more benefit of a doubt.
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
Given that he’s known them all his life, I think his view of them has rather more evidence to support it, don’t you?
askew
@JenJen:
Yep, the Clintons will come out and criticize Obama and run to the middle to try to win the hardworking white vote not realizing that it isn’t 1996 any more. Obama is the only politician in the past 4 cycles who could turn out the Dem base. You’d think more Dems would be interested in following in his footsteps. Instead they keep following the playbook of the candidate who got their ass kicked by Obama. Pandering to the rightwing and running on stupid, small issues doesn’t inspire the base. Obama ran on grand themes of change and hope and won. If Dems don’t realize how to do that, it won’t matter who is on the presidential ticket in 2016, we’ll lose.
Elizabelle
@Morzer:
She just moved. Lucky creature. (snark)
@Mnemosyne: I think a cat moved the box.
Violet
@Morzer: Sorry, if there are “good Republicans” they would not caucus wth the batshit crazy people in their party. But they do. So no matter how nice they are to their families and pets, they are not good people. They actively work to hurt the less fortunte and the country. How else do you describe that? “Smart, ethical and has the best interests of the country at heart?” Okay, then….
As for your example of Baucus being an unethical person, both-sides-do-it-ism is alive and well, apparently. We were not discussing the ethical failing of Democrats. We were discussing the policies of Republicans and those people who choose to support them with their vote.
askew
@James E Powell:
Issuing the executive order on immigration would have lit a fire under Hispanic voters and that would have likely saved us the CO-Sen seat and all the other candidates got attacked for amnesty anyways. But, the cowardly Senate Dems went to Obama and begged him not to issue the order. Morons.
Elizabelle
@Helen: I see what you are saying, but I am concerned that people are personalizing this against Tommy.
You have a valid point.
I don’t like seeing pile ons.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: Sure, assuming Tommy’s view is credible.
celticdragonchick
@beltane:
This time one thousand.
Elizabelle
@askew: This won’t be popular, but can you not see that an executive order on immigration might just as well have backfired mightily?
We have a jobless recovery from recession, and a two-tier economy. A lot of people cannot find adequately paid jobs and fulltime work. And we are going to add scores of new workers? At this time? In droves?
What a lot of people are seeing as race issues — and there is that — is also economic insecurity played out big time.
Problem is, the GOP voters have the wrong villain.
I am not saying we don’t need to fix our immigration system, or that it is not broken, but there are some practical realities. I value the contributions of immigrants, and we are a nation of immigrants. But assimilating 12+ million new workers in one fell swoop, in a jobless recovery? When the middle class can barely send its kids to college, and what kind of jobs are available to them?
Hill Dweller
Will Senate Republicans do away with filibuster altogether next year?
max
@Elizabelle: Thank you Max.
No sweat. As of 1:54am, the official SBE count is Warner 1,067,342 to Gillespie 1,050,534. 49.12% to 48.34%. So about 4-6 thousand votes shy of a full percentage. Darn.
max
[‘Well, Warner’s got this since any recount is likely to boost Warner’s count.’]
Elizabelle
@celticdragonchick:
I worry that we are consoling ourselves on blogs, and not out in the streets. Because that may be what it would take.
And I hate to think of how the media would say we are out there, proving Obama is such a colossal failure.
I truly do think of leaving this country for a few years. Or longer.
James E Powell
@askew:
That’s a good illustration of the problem with Dems. Obama might have got some points for himself if he had issued an executive order, but all those Dems who begged him not to do it were reading the likely voter polls in their respective states. They would have either denounced the president or stayed quiet. In either case the electorate would not be fired up. Not to vote for those Dems.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elizabelle: Tommy said what he said. He can stand behind it, correct it, or say, fuck, I mistyped.
FWIW I have a running issue with him.
Mnemosyne
@Elizabelle:
The prime suspect is my spouse. But there are only so many arguments that one can have along the lines of, Where in the hell is my stuff?
Morzer
@Omnes Omnibus:
Let me get this straight: you’ve never met or spoken with Tommy’s parents, right?
What exactly is the basis for your viewpoint of them as specific individuals? And why would your viewpoint of them be more credible than Tommy’s?
I really hope this isn’t going to come down to a generalization about all Republicans being evil.
Violet
@Morzer: The problem is that Tommy says his parents are “Republicans but the good kind” as if this is a thing. This is not a thing. It’s not like Tommy’s parents are in this giant group of people known as “good Republicans.” That group doesn’t exist and pretending it does is harmful and dangerous.
Now there may be the exception that proves the rule and Tommy’s parents may be the rare unicorn of actual good Republicans, but they still vote for people whose policies fuck over everyone, including their own son. Tommy has his own business and only now can afford health insurance thanks to the ACA, but his parents–or at least his dad–sure as hell voted for people who voted against And that doesn’t begin to scratch the surface. How about things like climate change that will affect their own granddaughter. How many Republicans vote for anything related to dealing with climate change? Hell, how many even “believe in it”, as if it’s something you “believe in” rather than a scientific reality?
Perhaps we have a different understanding of the word “good.”
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne:
I usually find whatever hiding in plain sight, because it looks different than what I was expecting. The box is different, something is on the box, the shoes are not in the box … it looks like a box that belonged to someone else and got moved ….
again, first world problems.
Suffern ACE
@lamh36: he might as well just pick one who’ll go on an anti gay porn crusade. It’s the only type we will get.
JMV Pyro
So, I’m a long time lurker here. I also was working on a state rep. campaign in Florida and on the Crist campaign as a volunteer. Here’s my perspective on this.
It’s obvious we lost big time and just from a campaigning perspective, Dems had the following problems:
1.) Terrible organization. At least in Florida and probably elsewhere, the state party apparatus was completely out of touch with what was going on on the ground. A good example of this is that they’d keep sending us out to areas that we’d put down as unresponsive (basically, canvassing areas where we’d been kicked out or had terrible results) instead of writing these sections off and doubling down on areas with a high result rate.
2.) For that matter, Canvassing itself was terrible. Lot’s of fudged results and it came down to luck most days. We had a much better time of it ingraining ourselves into the community via high traffic tabling, events, and even sitting down at a starbucks and quizing people who popped in, but instead of doing that, we pissed away a lot of time trying to meet quota’s for doors knocked or whatever the hell these people wanted.
3.) Money. My guy was outspent 4:1 and I feel it’s the same with a lot of other candidates. It doesn’t help that the best grassroots campaign finance guys (The Obama Team) were not working anywhere in this state, having moved on to different jobs, so it went back to the old DLC types.
4.) Message. No one wanted to run on accomplishments at all, everyone seemed to be running away from what successes we did have and what we could bring them. It just seemed to be against the Republicans without explaining why and what was going on. Running on the ACA? Forget about it. Minimum wage? Nope. Environment? You wish. No, it was just ‘Republicans are scary’ without explaining to people why they are scary. The success I’m seeing of ballot measures on the minimum wage, guns, pot, and abortion across the country just further illustrate this. People like our policies, but they also don’t here much support for them from the party.
So, overall it’s obvious we have problems. Our party’s bureaucracy is out of touch, engages in back-asswards strategy, and is unable to give people a reason to vote for them. I’m not despairing, but I think if we want to be successful in the future without Obama, we need to transform this party from the ground up in terms of how it conducts elections.
PS: Obviously there are other issues (race, Citizens United, and the two-tiered nature of the recovery come to mind imidietly) that played a role on the macro-level, but I don’t think you can completely discount all this small-time campaign stuff either. It adds up in the end.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: I will outsource to Violet..
Mnemosyne
@Elizabelle:
I’m going to go to bed and look for it some more tomorrow. I’ve found a lot of shoes, but not the specific ones I’m looking for. It has been making getting dressed for work difficult (luckily, no one blinks an eye if I wear jeans to work at the Giant Evil Corporation).
I will have some political comments tomorrow, but here’s one to chew on that the other thread made me think of: what if the real target of the recent voter ID laws was not minority voters, but married women? The reports of a sudden plunge in women voting is giving me a very uncomfortable feeling, like we got snookered again by the Republicans feinting in one direction towards a smaller group of voters while actually targeting a larger one.
Morzer
@Violet:
It’s a matter of pointing out that we don’t have a perfect record of voting for angels only either. We Democrats elected Harold Ford and Max Baucus. Hell, we elected William ‘cash in the freezer” Jefferson. Good people vote for bad causes out of mistaken beliefs, family allegiances, whatever the cause may be. How many Democrats are you going to denounce as bad people because they voted for Blue Dogs or corrupt Democrats of one stripe or another? Should we simply stipulate that anyone who ever voted for a Republican must be evil? Hell, it looks mighty like we are going to nominate Hillary in 2016. Should we maybe examine the 2008 primaries for evidence of good Democrats voting for a bad cause? Maybe we should denounce ourselves for voting for HRC, given her recent record of pandering to the right, her ties to dominionists etc etc?
In sum, people are human and we make mistakes and vote for poor choices all the time. If you shot everyone who voted for a bad person/morally suspect candidate, we could reduce the electorate to three recluses living in their basements plus a million or so cats.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne:
Target being married women.
Wow. Maybe. Could make a difference in some states indeed.
Violet
@JMV Pyro:
This is such a good point. It’s been driving me crazy since the ACA passed that the Democrats won’t run ON it. They run away from it. They could own the hell out of the good parts of it–the stuff that even helps the middle class white people, like no pre-existing conditions or kids staying on parents’ policies until they’re 26. Own it. Scream it from the rooftops. But they didn’t.
And the populist messages of higher minimum wage, pot, etc. could really find traction but the Democrats refuse to be populists. My fear is that the Republicans will swoop in and steal that stuff away. Rand Paul is already making moves in that direction, so I know Republicans see the opportunity.
Gawd, Democrats just suck.
TriassicSands
@beltane:
It’s OK to drink the blood of newborns — only fetuses are protected. Once they’re born, they’re on their own.
Botsplainer
@FlipYrWhig:
Yup, fuck a bunch of white olds. I’m done with them, too.
When color goes all Hutus and Tutsis, we’ll have deserved our fate.
Omnes Omnibus
@Morzer: Step back. Most of this is dealing with a specific person. Not generalities. Let’s talk about a hypothetical…. let’s say there is a person who claims to be very liberal, and this person drops casually racist and sexist comments. How do you deal with it?
Violet
@Morzer: I do not have a problem with people who have learned the error of their ways. Our esteemed bloghost is among that group. Certainly none of us is perfect. Of course unethical people are in both parties, just as they are in every profession.
My issue is that at this point it is clear that Republican policies are dangerous and evil. If someone chooses to vote for Republicans, no matter how nice the individual person is, they are voting for dangerous and evil policies. They are supporting evil by choice.
That is not how I definte “good.”
JMV Pyro
@The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:
The thing is? I don’t think the pendulum has even swung our way in terms of the broader culture yet. The Democratic victories over the past few years have been little shoves sure, but we’re still very much in Newt Gingrich’s/Ronald Reagan’s world in terms of what people think of as ‘good’ and ‘bad’ in politics. And even then, historically speaking our windows of opportunity are very brief ( see Reconstruction, the New Deal, and the Great Society.
I don’t know when the next big ‘shift’ is coming, but I don’t think Obama was it. Or Occupy, for what it was worth. He got the ball rolling on a lot of good things, but he couldn’t transform the culture of distrust towards the government that Americans have had burned into them for decades. That transformation, when it comes, will be from somewhere else.
sharl
Very, very preliminary analyses coming in on the upset victory of Republican Larry Hogan in the MD Governor race. Some input here from Baltimore resident and long time reporter Alec MacGillis, starting at about 6pm (before polls closed):
And what, pray tell, is a “Rain Tax“?:
I had been vaguely aware of this law, but as a renter its effects show up (presumably) as rent increases, while MD homeowners see this tax increase directly, and almost certainly know where it came from; and if they didn’t know, I’m sure Hogan’s campaign very helpfully pointed it out.
There are lots of Black professionals and middle class folks in Maryland, and they don’t like taxes any more than other middle class residents. This has manifested itself elsewhere, e.g., over twenty years ago Prince George’s County voters passed TRIM (Tax Reform Initiative by Marylanders) which caps property taxes, and efforts in subsequent years to repeal or modify TRIM have been shot down by the voters, even as county demographics have changed to greater %Af-Am, and despite the county schools badly needing the added funds. [PGC commissioners have tried going to the State Capitol in Annapolis, hat-in-hand, seeking further school funding, but the legislators take one look at county voters’ refusal to change or abolish TRIM, and basically tell the county “the first move is yours; until then, don’t bother us”.]
Maybe Brown’s campaign advisers have tin ears (or are renters like me). It seems like they should have picked up on this early on though.
This loss will be analyzed to death, so I’m sure much more information will be forthcoming.
Elizabelle
@JMV Pyro:
Excellent comment, and thank you for all that you did.
It’s awful to see the GOP resurgent, because they will run the worst of the worst, triumphantly. And Democrats run away from the president who got them healthcare — of some sort — and has been the adult in the room.
Good description of the organizational challenges. I agree we have a “professional left” that is part of the campaign-industrial complex, but not up to the task.
Omnes Omnibus
@JMV Pyro: Thank you. Let’s keep going,
sharl
Hmm, my long-ass comment – best comment evah! – is in moderation. Only three links, so I wonder what bad word(s) FYWP objected to. Oh well…
Linnaeus
@JMV Pyro:
I’m hoping it won’t take a massive crisis for that to happen.
JMV Pyro
@Violet:
I think it doesn’t help that the GOP kind of own populism at the moment. It’s a morally repugnant, exclusionary, and facile populism, but it still resonates with the crawl-over-glass types. I might not like Thomas Frank very much, but I think he’s right in the sense the for progressive politics to be successful, they have to engage the people.
@Elizabelle:
Obama is the Harry Truman of the 21st century. Everyone in DC hates him now, but I think history will look upon him with a lot kinder eyes, to the point where politicians will be clamoring over each other to capture his legacy a few decades down the line. When that happens I’m going to laugh my ass off.
Also, yes there is a problem in the campaign industrial complex. I don’t think “professional left” is the right term though. There more technocratic, so caught up in data that they’ve missed the community element of activism. The success of the Obama campaign structure was it’s synthesis of these two things and the Dems in my state emphasized the former without the latter. The results speak for themselves.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus: FWIW, on my second tiny rye Manhattan. You asked in thread below.
I’m too restless and unhappy to sleep.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Mnemosyne: I saw someone(I don’t remember who) make that point on MSNBC yesterday. Marriage, divorce make it a real problem for women to get ID for voting.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Violet:
The Republicans are for all that, they’ll do it all and better; and it won’t cost a penny(and they’ll get rid of the mandate and medical device tax)!
(Paraphrase of FDR)
JMV Pyro
@Linnaeus:
The scary thing is that historically, it often does take some kind of super crisis. All of the three big reform periods I mentioned were built on the public being galvanized into action around a tragedy or crisis. It takes a huge crisis to get something like the New Deal coalition formed, much less active as a political force for as long as it was.
Elizabelle
@JMV Pyro: Are you really entranced by fire?
This is the first election since the early 1980s where I literally did not raise a finger. I put up a yard sign, I called and reminded friends to vote. We had a death in the family this summer, and I am still reeling from that. Just did not have it in me to take on outside commitments at this time.
Had hoped to head to NC to give Kay Hagan some help. Would have been a good effort, but for naught, I see.
The direction this country is taking frightens me. I cannot tell if it is death throes of a terrible party with terrible ideas (the GOP) or the beginning of the new normal, where we are stuck in a new Gilded Age and can vote and be passionate, but end up encased in amber and irrelevant, because big money and its lapdog, corporate media, want low taxes and an extraction economy.
But we are human.
Not a surprise to me that Christopher Nolan’s new movie is apparently about an astronaut trying to leave this earth, which will not support life any more. (Or so it seems, from the blurbs. I never read reviews before seeing the flick — like to be surprised.)
Elizabelle
@JMV Pyro:
I know. I am thinking, where are the Red Brigades when you need them.
And please, not an assassination. Of a leading Democratic figure.
For the worst of the GOP: they sowed the wind. Will the whirlwind consume them first? Or us?
BillinGlendaleCA
@JMV Pyro: I thought that the financial crisis of 2008 was the event that would lead to a similar transformation. I was wrong.
Tommy
@Violet: Funny. Come to my house. Sleep a night. Talk to my parents. I think you find things interesting. That you think you know everything. Maybe you don’t.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Tommy: Tommy, are you trying to hit on Violet? Yes, I”m joking.
On a serious note. I know a good number of rational republicans. Most would support the same positions as I, if(big if) they took the time to understand them.
Elizabelle
I think this is a big reason Harry S Truman was unpopular at the time, although who wants to admit it? And why history has been kinder to him.
Botsplainer
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Hell, even as it was arriving, conservatives denied it existed.
This doesn’t stop until conservative propagandist-pundits and their corporate paymasters learn to have something to fear, like random assassinations as they arrive to head to green rooms.
I’m not telling a joke here.
ETA: who among us wouldn’t quietly cheer if Limbaugh got kicked to death outside a restaurant? Or if Hannity got stabbed on the way in to Fox? Or Chuck Todd’s car blew up when he started it?
RK
Look on the bright side. Now that the Congress is Republican Obama can cut SS.
Elizabelle
@RK: Oh go away.
Elizabelle
@Botsplainer: Is Luke Russert in the car too?
Botsplainer
@RK:
When we get our Conservative Christian president in 2016, I’m going all in on killing Medicare and social security – not just for the 50 and over crowd, but the current olds. Let them feel the consequences of their own policies.
Botsplainer
@Elizabelle:
Strategy lunch with Todd, Russert, Scarborough and Mika. Todd decided to drive everybody in his new Tesla to show off.
Elizabelle
@Botsplainer:
Elon Musk doesn’t deserve that!
BillinGlendaleCA
@Botsplainer: Part of the problem is first that people don’t pay attention, as I noted above; and second is that these things won’t effect me.
An example: I don’t care about abortion restrictions cause I use the pill and won’t need an abortion. This fails on two points: you might forget to take your pill at the right time and if they can restrict abortion they’re coming after birth control next(personhood).
A Humble Lurker
@JMV Pyro:
The problem is you never know which way that’s going to go. 2008 may have helped some of our causes along, but I don’t have to tell you whose 9/11 helped.
eemom
@Elizabelle:
fwiw, I think, as I’ve said several times this evening, that it is neither one nor the other. The party with the enormity of money and power behind it that the republicans have will never be in its death throes in our lifetime, because there will never be any shortage of brain dead morons to suck up its elaborately purchased agenda of hatred and fear, no matter that they’re fucking their own selves in the ass by doing that, as we saw tonight.
But the pendulum swings back — it always does. For God knows what reason, the OTHER fucking morons — the ones who stayed home today — will wrap the lines around the block to vote in 2016…..and at that time, I think it’s reasonably safe to say, the conditions will be back on our side.
NotMax
Wowzers. The ballot initiative on Maui about a moratorium and studies on genetically modified plantings, into which Monsanto tossed millions urging a No vote, had the Noes well ahead in the early results and completely flipped in the final printout to the Yes column, so has passed.
That’s even with blank votes, which by state law are automatically counted as a No, factored in.
Elizabelle
@eemom: I really do like the idea of no more midterms; four year terms when the Presidency is up.
We cannot afford two different electorates.
sharl
Since I’m still up, gonna try to summarize what my comment-in-moderation says, hopefully without angering the FYWP demon again.
Regarding the GOP win in the MD Gov race, early analysis suggests that, in large part, it was due to local politics, not due to Obummer or other national political dynamics (though I’m sure such dynamics factored in somewhere). In a number of tweets, longtime reporter and Baltimore resident Alec MacGillis says there was much anger over the state-imposed “Rain Tax“,* and this anger transcended racial and political boundaries, based on his discussions with voters at the polling places he visited. So, kind of a homeowner’s revolt, I suppose.
*In Maryland:
RK
@eemom:
I’m not sure things work that way. I think voting for a certain party may involve dynamics on a more psychic, personal, character level.
JGabriel
@Violet:
Yep, this. The proper response from the manager would have been, “Thanks,” then going out or sending someone out to round up stray carts.
Botsplainer
@sharl:
The national addiction to home ownership promises to kill us all.
Morzer
I guess that seems as good a reaction as any to the gibbering lunacy that the electorate has just unleashed.
Bless America’s shrivelled, white, sclerotic heart.
BlueDWarrior
@RK: Yeah, this is more of a case, IMO, of people just constantly rejecting the induviduals that Democrats put up unless they are in safe Blue areas.
How else can you explain Obama winning in two electoral landslides and then getting his congresspeople blown out, when a lot of those Congresspeople were running away from him at the slightest hint of trouble?
At what point do actual officials in the Democratic Party look at themselves and go “How long are we just going to cower in the corner and suck our thumbs”?
Or are they, in the end, comfortable with being a 40%-of-the-electorate minority party in all but the Northeast, Rust Belt, and Pacific West?
Perhaps it is time we took a page out of the Religious Right’s playbook and start taking literal ownership of these state parties so that maybe we can get some people to bubble up in the ranks instead of having to depend on a Presidential Candidate to bail us out every four years.
Mike J
@BlueDWarrior:
Get on that. The people who like to complain the most about Dems not acting like Dems are the least likely to show up at the monthly county party meetings. Just don’t expect to be put in charge the first week.
I’d love it if the people who are so excited to go online and carp would actually show up and try to get their vision represented in the party, rather than sitting at home and complaining that the Democrats don’t do things the way they’d like.
BlueDWarrior
@Mike J: I am honestly looking into it, but I need to find some phone numbers. Also I actually work the night shift so I’d have to see what kind of scheduling they do for functions and whatnot.
RK
It’s always darkest before the dawn. At the very least the Republicans may be entertaining for a spell.
Peace out.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Morzer: How’s the Land of the Morning Calm?
I had a devil of a time trying to figure out the location(I’m geolocating my film scans) of a building that WAS in one of the palaces in Seoul. Finally figured it out with the help of a US Army map of Seoul from 1946.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Mnemosyne:
I’ve been telling women here for months to get their documentation in order. We still have several years of Art Pope-backed rule remaining, and it wouldn’t surprise me at all for the ID requirements to be tightened.
Chris
@beltane:
Americans lost the right to criticize when they reelected George W. Bush ten years ago. Full stop.
Tommy
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: It has been my experience as a single dude that women, often married women, are the folks that make change happen. You know I wouldn’t get between a women and a cause.
Botsplainer
It appears that my hesitation on joining KyNect may have been prescient. I’m at least reasonably assured that I can keep my current bullshit policy for the foreseeable future.
This is not going to be a normal obstructionist final two years Congress. This is going to be Ted Cruz on steroids, and will include blowing up the Full Faith and Credit over the repeal of the entirety of the ACA.
Those nihilists may even shoot for everything they’ve ever dreamed of while daring Obama to resist and provoke a secession crisis.
They’re a minority faction and fascists, but they’re driving the bus and will make the country a mostly ungovernable set of corporate baronies that will, over some time, consolidate over even the liberal areas to rule with an authoritarian fist.
We got our dystopian future. It looks mostly like Robocop and the original Rollerball, with a heaping helping of Revolt in 2100 thrown in to bring in the religious nutters.
Maybe I can expatriate to Costa Rica or Belize. Wife’s got NZ and AUS connex; that’s always an option.
Tommy
@Botsplainer: I’ve looked from afar and been kind of jealous of KyNect. The plan(s) in my state of IL isn’t as good as I had hoped. But I work for myself and getting healthcare was never easy. Obamacare and the ACA was a god sent for me. I have zero healthcare issues, but just knowing I have the plan, that it is there, I can’t put to words how happy I am about that. I got a “bronze” plan but looking to upgrade in the next few weeks, open enrollment. I am 45, getting older, and I want my plan to work for me.
Chris
@eemom:
Of course we are. It’s the worst political night since the 2010 midterms.
When people have a bad day (bad breakup, unexpected firing, expected firing, etc), it’s normal for them to get over it and pull themselves together after a little while, but it’s also normal to wander down to the bar that first night, pour yourself an ocean of stiff drinks and vent your ass off for hours to sympathetic friends or, failing that, the bartender. Today, that’s what Balloon Juice is for.
Tommy
@Chris: Yes. For the first time in 70 years, 70 fucking years we elected a Republican to the House. Mike Bost. His best claim to fame are the YouTube videos of him literally losing his mind on the House floor in Springfield. I have to look long and hard to find a single Republican elected in my district. We might elect “Blue Dogs,” but we don’t elect Republicans. Today was a bloodbath.
Another Holocene Human
Looking at exit polls, two things:
Republicans once again increased their marginal share with whites. But it was only a net of 2%. There were some close elections but not so many of them. This is kind of a relief because the hate was dialed to 11 this summer and fall.
Whites did have slightly higher share vis a vis the presidential election. Latinos dropped more than Blacks. Some of the Black drop was likely due to voter suppression efforts, such as unprocessed registrations, barriers to registration, voter ID, etc. Since 2010 AA voter share has not dipped as much in midterms as in the past.
Of the Latinos who did vote, they voted significantly less for Democrats. Either the D leaning Latinos stayed home or voters swung because of displeasure with Dems or both. Since GOP favorables did not improve as Dems dropped, probably the former.
It looks like the big message of this election is that what was obvious as the ears on Obama’s face is that Pryor was doomed to lose Arkansas anyway, and if Obama truly backed off on immigration reform to save his ass, it’s probably one of the biggest political miscalculations of his career. Latinos were PISSED and stayed home, at least in CO, where the Democrats lost an incumbent Senator. AZ doesn’t look as horrible, but AZ is getting interesting lately. Nevada was ugly. SW Texas, ouch. Florida? Oh god. WTF.
75% white voting electorate, kind of like a demographic window to the past.
My monday morning quarterbacking is that Obama should have gone for the immigration reform then. Interestingly exit polls did not show some sort of majority in favor of current immigration policy. Better to be fighting for something and not lose and demoralize a goodly part of your base than chase lost causes. And I think that hate radio may finally be hitting a wall in terms of marginal gains? I sure hope so because they are ugly.
Chris
@Omnes Omnibus:
Short version: this.
To elaborate: the GOP has gone so far out of its way to market itself as the Party Of Vicious Assholes (the fact that a vote for them hurts the poor is their selling point, not a dirty secret: it’s why Ron Paul can say that people without health insurance should die and not only is he not ostracized, it gets him a standing ovation) that it’s kind of natural to assume that of people who vote for them. That Ron Paul standing ovation is to a large extent what the party is all about. You can’t pretend not to know about it when every politician, every blogger, every talk show host, is screaming nothing but “fuck the poor” at the top of his lungs through every news outlet. Not in 2014 America.
To elaborate further: yes, of course there’s more to people than their politics (even Gooper politics), but their politics also aren’t something you can separate from the person – it’s part of who they are. What’s more, this isn’t especially controversial if you apply it outside of “Republicans.” If you found out that a friend of yours had joined a neo-Nazi group or a Salafi mosque, would you shut them out and proclaim them irredeemably evil and never have anything to do with them again? Maybe not. But your opinion of them would certainly take a big nosedive, and it should. These things do factor into our opinion of how good or bad people are, and it should. I apply the same principle to teabaggers.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@eemom: My reaction on seeing the news this morning was “The country has survived worse.”
Then I tried to think of what “worse” might be.
Then I said “But a whole lot of people died before it was all over.”
At this point, I’m just hoping most people survive what’s coming. Because this isn’t a sports contest, where some of us have a lot of experience in clinging to the hope for next year. This is the real world, with real lives hanging in the balance. The Republican governors have already murdered thousands, condemning them the moment they rejected the Medicaid expansion. And they’ve just been given letters of marque to murder and pillage for four more years.
Another Holocene Human
@Tommy: Yours is one district I think where Ferguson did play a role, in that it heightened white racial anxieties, which exit polling (via NYT) said played a role in whites voting Republican. (If they said they thought black-white relations were deteriorating they also voted GOP.)
Bost is embarrassing. Sorry. :(
We have Yoho, although Southerland is out. He was like a second-run Gohmert or Yoho, the dollar store knockoff.
Another Holocene Human
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Florida, for some reason, even though all the activists thought it was a winning issue, the activists and the PACs and the candidates were pretty silent about medicaid expansion. I mean, come on, the amount of money Florida is giving up is outrageous. I don’t understand that. I did see one of the bigger progressive activism hubs eff itself with lousy organizing skills. Occupy didn’t get shit done so don’t copy what didn’t work for them and, oh, SEIU paid staff? Go eff your narcissistic selves.
Tommy
@Another Holocene Human: The last few months I’ve been dating an Asian women. I am as white as white gets. I don’t think my parents would care. But this time of the year I go to a lot of family events, of the family my brother married into. I know if I brought her, and I am pondering this actively, there would be all kinds of hateful stuff. That I was polluting my blood line. There would be a lack of understanding that she must support China when she is from Korea. She can handle herself and want to bring her, but the racism would be open.
JGabriel
@Botsplainer:
I wouldn’t cheer, although I wouldn’t mourn either. Those guys, annoying as they are, aren’t really important enough.
Now if similar things happened to Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch, to the Koch brothers, to the billionaires who fund the GOP, or to high level GOP officeholders … then I’d quietly cheer. Hell, I might even do it loudly.
BillinGlendaleCA
@Botsplainer: Keep in mind the near sheriff has a pen, and I have no doubt that he will use it on any repeal legislation with the possible exception of the medical device tax. I’m sure they will probably try to attach it to either the budget(not signing leads to a shutdown) or the debt limit. I think they underestimate the President, I wouldn’t want to play games of chance against him.
Tommy
@Another Holocene Human: Ferguson played a role, if not used in a single ad I saw. My town is 97.3 percent white according to the 2010 Census. My district is not that, because East St. Louis is apart of it. But it is clear Ferguson freaked out a lot of people in my town/area. Where I live white folks are not used to black people protesting. I don’t think it is wrong to say that African Americans where I live are told, if not verbally, to know their place.
Another Holocene Human
@Chris: It’s not all bad.
2010 was a nightmare in NC. Last night Dems had made up a lot of that ground despite voter suppression. They are on track to win in 2016. Also, Wake County School Board was a D sweep. Get a load of that.
Min wage measures are winning everywhere.
MN, CA, OR, WA, HI had pretty good nights. AZ isn’t looking that bad, which is good because NM is still giving me heartburn.
CT-gov and VA-sen pulled it out.
Increasing voter registration, early voting, voting locations, voter activism, and activity and interest in Western Indian reservations. These are tough places to organize, and it’s easy to get demoralized.
Georgia is changing. I don’t care how you look at it. Black women are tough (ETA: resilient, because they have to be), Stacey Abrams is a force of nature, and GA is going to replicate NC. Watch.
Florida 2nd district. Lots of Black voters in those counties btw.
Honda beat the tech billionaire.
Looks like D’s won a seat in NE.
Cuomo racked up terrible numbers and WFP got the votes they needed, and WEP didn’t.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@BillinGlendaleCA:
There have been stories going around for years that he wasn’t welcome at card game nights when he was a state senator.
Another Holocene Human
@Tommy: That’s pretty depressing. Family! Mine isn’t much better …
Morzer
@BillinGlendaleCA:
Very enjoyable so far, although the school just across the road from us insists on communicating all executive decisions to the neighborhood by megaphone. Still, I am making some progress on learning Korean and generally enjoying the lack of guns and obvious crazies toting them. One thing that takes some getting used to is the ubiquity of delivery services. You buy groceries online and they are delivered a few hours later. Likewise couches, computers, books… you name it, they deliver it. The other noticeable feature of the landscape here and in Japan – superb public transport that is clean, runs on time, is extremely affordable and generally.. well, it’s a regular socialist nightmare. More, please!
Morzer
@Tommy:
If you want to move to Korea as refugees, Tommy, I have a new couch that I can spare for you and your bride. Might even be able to find a blanket or two!
skwerlhugger
I live in a small working-class town in MA, votes hard Republican. At one time I did a lot of volunteer work, particularly for elderly. Around about the time Scott Brown got elected, I started thinking “why the fuck am I trying to help people so determined to empower politicians fucking them over?” I don’t do much volunteer work any more, I just got tired of spending my time and energy on stupid, bigoted, narrow-minded people. I’ll start up again when the town votes Democrat. I expect to die first.
Another Holocene Human
One downer I have noticed, a number of my poorer, dumber coworkers who are not hate-driven Radio Rwanda bots have been seduced by these long conspiracy videos on Youtube that pay on their weak education, their fears and frustrations. These are people who only vote in presidential elections and are pretty reliable but come out with weird stuff. Boy did I hear some of it recently (with reference to the pot measure being defeated).
It does show there’s an opening to make Democratic longform propaganda that’s shallow and tendentious because apparently there’s a big market for that …
Morzer
@Another Holocene Human:
I was hoping there might be an opening for Socialist haiku propaganda, but I guess that longform would be acceptable, if it delivers the rubes from their muggers.
BlueDWarrior
@Another Holocene Human: I think Propaaganda only works when it fits into something people want to believe to start with.
Do people really want to believe those nice Republicans who live up on the hill are really psychopaths that would sell them down the river, quite literally, if they had the chance?
Really doesn’t seem like it.
satby
@Chris: Agreed. And for the record, I assume most people think the Republicans they know are “nice” and “sane” because those Rs are that way to them. But then, as yesterday showed, most us us are in the whitey club, so of course they’re nice to us.
But they understand the policies they support, and they vote for them; and that makes them not nice people.
I sadly include my own mother in that, a lovely generous woman at one time, now and 84 year old Foxbot racist.
Corner Stone
@Botsplainer:
While the idea may be viscerally appealing to some, the fact is that the other side of this equation is much more than willing to play the same game.
Our side has tree huggers and Greenpeace, the other side has Scott Roeder.
If a few conspicuous personalities got got, don’t think for a second that it wouldn’t be blatantly on like Donkey Kong.
Corner Stone
@Tommy: Lord I just can’t even with this.
mdblanche
@Chris: I don’t think it was Ron Paul who said that. I remember it being a member of the audience, which then gave itself a standing ovation. So yeah, even if he didn’t say it, it’s what the mob wanted to hear.
@Tommy: Bullshit. If your parents are Republicans like you say, of course they would care. I’m beginning to think you really don’t know what a Republican is.
Violet
@Tommy: If you believe that I think I know everything then you have paid little attention to anything I’ve posted here over the years.
Violet
@Corner Stone: Yeah, no kidding. Cant. Even.
@mdblanche:
Yep.
brantl
@The Dangerman: Want to bet, Newt was just that dumb. The Great Orange Boehner isnt’ any smarter, and McSuckel isn’t either.
J R in WV
@JMV Pyro:
Hey, JVM,
I was a volunteer up here, and I can’t tell you if things could have been done better, a sample of one point doesn’t give me enough perspective.
But when every campaign seems to fail in the same way, that is multiple points of data, and I don’t think that can be a co-incidence.
I think the people we have running Democratic campaigns have two bosses. One is their candidate, but the other one, the real one, is a Republican agent provocateur.
These guys get hired by Dems, I suppose they send out applications whehever they hear about a new candidate. They probably provide a great video roll, good graphics, talk a blue streak about new paradigms, and charge a boat load of money to do what they do.
I think they are sent to apply for the jobs running Democratic campaigns by people who own the Republican party. I think they work to come close, but never actually win an electoral race. Never actually win!
And I think many candidates are the same way. If the actually win a race, they won’t do anything about real progressive causes. They won’t fight back against Republican’s crazy ideas in any effective way. They might vote against truly crazy bills, they might vote against nominees who are provably crazed, things like that. But they won’t get down and fight for what’s right, ever. Not Ever!
J R in WV
@Tommy:
I’m not going to jump on “All Republicans are evil” but anyone who would think that you are polluting your blood line by dating (or mating) with a woman of Korean (or any other “foreign”) extraction – that is hateful, no other word for it. Filled with hate to the exclusion of anything else.
I would never attend any event with people if I knew or even suspected that such an attitude would be expressed or even silently felt. Your brother’s in-laws would just have to get used to never seeing me again, ever.
Racism is evil, nearly the most evil political position possible in this world. Think of the genocides that have occurred based upon crazed beliefs about minorities and “the other”. Whether Black, Asian, Jewish, that kind of unearned hatred is sick and evil.
That said, I’m not jumping on you personally, just saying where I fall if my girlfriend/wife might be in for that kind of reception. Best of luck dealing with it, that’s a hard place to be for any length of time.
Chris
@Another Holocene Human:
Not all bad, plenty bad enough, though. And thank you, that list of “not so bad” is actually the most effective bit of cheering up in re the news that I’d read all day. You’re a good bartender!
@satby:
I’ve done some bitching before about the common liberal delusion that most right wing voters are decent, well-meaning Good People who are being tricked and manipulated by criminal masterminds, and oh, if only we could get them to see that they’re being manipulated. But it makes sense; it’s more comforting to believe that this isn’t their “real” self and they’re just being deceived, than to acknowledge that no – the racist old dickbag next door is, deep down, a racist old dickbag. Especially when, like in your case (or mine) the racist old dickbags happen to be relatives.
@mdblanche:
That makes it even worse. It didn’t even take a politician to stir up the activists – they did it all by themselves. Because that’s why they go out and vote GOP and work to get it elected – they want to fuck over the people they think deserve it, as hard as possible.
It’s who they are.