You can watch it here.
UPDATE: Someone just asked PBO if he regrets not developing more cordial relationships with Republicans in Congress. He allowed himself a sigh of exasperation before giving a sane and measured response. That’s why he’s president and I’m not: I would have grabbed one of the flags and skewered the questioner with the pole.
Major Major Major Major
OT: Hickenlooper won! Coloradoans aren’t completely insane! By a 1.5% margin but still. Went to sleep thinking he’d lost. Trying to focus on the good news…
schrodinger's cat
When Obama is not on the ballot the Dems get thumped, I wonder if 2016 Dem candidates will continue in Grimes et al’s losery footsteps.
schrodinger's cat
@Major Major Major Major: Coakley croaked again, so we now have a Republican governor.
Elizabelle
@Major Major Major Major:
Very happy to see Candidate Beauprez continue his perfect string.
What a relief for you, though. I am so disappointed Gardner slithered through.
Belafon
@schrodinger’s cat: I’m starting to think that Joe Biden needs to run for president because I just don’t see him running away from Obama’s record the way Grimes and others did this year, or Gore did from Clinton in 2000. He can make them all talk about Obama’s record.
JPL
@schrodinger’s cat: I feel your pain. My state is number one
but of course, that’s in unemployment.
Elizabelle
That nice Jonathan Karl just asked how PBO can get along better with Republicans in Congress.
SiubhanDuinne
I officially want a Jonathan Karl-less world now, tyvm.
Another Holocene Human
Thread died by the time I posted this (got interrupted by life) but it needs to be said (in response to old “fuck the south” drumbeat):
@Betty Cracker: It’s nonsense. White supremacy is a borderless state. Wherever there is fear of “illegals”, wherever men say “they took er jawbs”, wherever they need to defend the purity of the white wimminfoke, or the segregation of the schools.
White supremacy hotbeds: Eastern Washington, Idaho, Montana, wingnutty parts of MN, Wisconsin ex-Milwaukee, downstate Illinois, all of Nebraska, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah ex SLC, Nevada tumbleweed country, empty parts of Oregon, populated parts of Oregon, Norcal, Maricopa County AZ, Albequerque, NM, Colorado Springs, Aurora, and empty parts of CO, Tex-ass, Arkansas, every white person in Oklahoma, Misery, damn near every white person in Louisiana, every damn white person like except 1% who can read and for some damn reason didn’t move away in Mississippi, every cracker in Alabama, lower Alabama (this is in Florida), Jacksonville/Duval County, Levy/Gilchrist (Rosewood massacre region) counties, Big Bend, Bradford county (state prisons!), rich bitch enclaves in Miami (where Cubans and Brazilian plutocrats are the only good immigrants), Seminole County (Sanford!), SE Georgia, Atlanta outer ring, South Cackalacky (all of it, Katie), whoever voted for Tillis in NC, all of goddamn Tennessee, SE Kentucky, central Kentucky, West by god, voted for a felon over Obama Virginia, all of VA but NoVa’s nonwhite population and the Black voters in Richmond, all the shitty parts of Maryland and Baltimore County, central PA and the outer Philly suburbs (Main Line, etc) and all of Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Upstate NY, Vermont in their freaky privileged smug way, NH can’t gauge because they’re voting on “fuck you, children” and “fuck you, women” right now, Maine rich and poor, North Shore and western exurbs around Boston, also Fall River/New Bedford, also Worcester (not the city but everything around it), also municipal govt’s in Brookline, Cambridge, Watertown, Waltham, Dedham basically every NIMBY’d up shithole ‘burb who thinks they’re the shit (don’t believe me? too bad, Cambridge whites are racist as shit, see schools, public, Dedham was fucking redlined into the early 90s, Watertown fucked themselves for fear of blacks riding transit), RI jesus fuck, CT it’s a rich/poor divide, NYC ethnic resentment is alive and well but credit where due, you elected deBlasio, South Jersey, Delaware (the “No, fuck YOU” state), DC where your vote doesn’t count because those people don’t deserve to govern themselves, OH from the suburban rings outwards, IN and their smug know-nothing sense of superiority ex-Indy, Bloomy, and PoC trapped from Gary to South Bend, most of fucking Michigan, Erie PA, lots of hosers across the border, Alaska’s entire on-welfare white population, HI’s white wealthy elite.
The GOP is not going to be a regional party. The GOP is on track to lose national elections but it will be everywhere as the white racial resentment party.
schrodinger's cat
@Elizabelle: He is a Republican stooge.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Couldn’t pay me enough to watch that shit, unless it ends with him taking a steaming dump on the lectern and telling America to go fuck itself.
@Another Holocene Human: You forgot the vast majority of California that’s not the actual cities of Los Angeles, San Jose or San Francisco. Sadly, however, a lot of so called California “liberals” also fall into that state as well. Also almost every single white person in Ohio as well. Fuck Ohio.
Elizabelle
@Belafon:
Joe Biden. Elizabeth Warren. Not a Hillary coronation, because that’s too high risk. (She could lose. Do not count on demographics.)
Karl: Will PBO have a drink with Mitch McConnell?
PBO: He could see having some Kentucky bourbon with the Senator.
Geeno
What’s going to be puke inducing is how the Democratic consultant class won’t learn a thing from this. Oh, it was just a bad year.
Elizabelle
@schrodinger’s cat:
I know. I loathe Jonathan Karl. Shame on ABC for keeping him.
...now I try to be amused
@Belafon:
I want Uncle Joe to run because of this, and because he. will. fight. He’ll stick in the shiv with a smile on his face.
mai naem
@schrodinger’s cat: it’ll still be Obama’s fault. Hell, everything negative’s going to be Obama’s fault for at least another 6 decades since they were still blaming Jimmy Carter in 2007 and he was a white Born Again Christian American. As well all know Obummer is a Wahabi Musleemi Kenyan Soshulist Marxist Alinskite. BTW, I had never heard of Saul Alinsky until the teabaggers going on about him and I finally looked him up.
Elizabelle
@SiubhanDuinne:
If I saw Jonathan Karl on the street, I would gun my engine.
schrodinger's cat
@…now I try to be amused: I am afraid if Hillary runs we are going to see a rerun of her “working class white people” campaign of the 2008 primaries.
Another Holocene Human
@Major Major Major Major: Makes you wonder where Udall went wrong.
Or maybe he didn’t go wrong. Maybe he got punished for failures of Senate Dems (such as immigration reform). Polling was unreliable so I’m wondering if anyone in CO can look at precinct returns and read the tea leaves for us.
Buddy H
Someone just asked PBO if he regrets not developing more cordial relationships with Republicans in Congress. He allowed himself a sigh of exasperation before giving a sane and measured response. That’s why he’s president and I’m not: I would have grabbed one of the flags and skewered the questioner with the pole.
Was that Jonathan Karl asking the question? He’s less and less subtle in his questions and reporting. I imagine eventually his questions will be something like “Are you willing to apologize to the american people for being president?”
skerry
@Another Holocene Human: Amen
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat:
Mass progressives need to organize and rally around a candidate a year before the convention. The machine sure as fuck isn’t going to question themselves or stop.
JPL
@mai naem: Don’t forget, Carter’s bill forcing the banks to give loans to unqualified citizens caused the crash. I actually said to someone, read the darn bill and then say that again.
As far as I’m concerned they are liars.
Cacti
@schrodinger’s cat:
I could easily see Hillary being a repeat of Kerry 2004, winning the reliably blue states and nothing else.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Buddy H: Funny, that’s almost word for word what my office wingnut said to me this morning. And she was serious. He needs to apologize and then resign.
schrodinger's cat
@Another Holocene Human: There were a lot of signs for Berwick in my area, during the primaries but none for Coakley, she is not loved around here.
Alex S.
@schrodinger’s cat:
What’s so bad about it? In times like these, I accept a little tackiness if it works.
beth
@Buddy H: I’m waiting for him to go all Colbert and ask “are you a bad President or worst President ever?”
Another Holocene Human
@Belafon: I can’t believe myself but I’d be more excited about Mr reinvented himself gaffeman than Lady Inevitable The Hawk. No, he’s not going to run away from Obama.
I disagree with the ‘running from Obama’ on this Senate cycle media CW. That’s crap–these fights were mostly in red territory that Obama lost and lost badly. However, in 2016 running from Obama will be SUICIDE for a Democratic national candidate.
I’m ready for Hilary, too. Ready to vote against her in the primary and bring out dozens of my closest friends to do the same.
Major Major Major Major
@Another Holocene Human: Udall is a strange, strange person. People can’t really connect to him. I think he was being punished for the state Dems on gun control, sorta subconsciously, personally.
mai naem
I am just going to paraphrase an NPR caller to Diane Rehm in 2012. We’re living in an apartment complex where a third of the tenants are arsonists, a third are actively trying to stop the arsonists and a third don’t give a crap. The owner of the complex doesn’t give a shit because his losses will be covered by the insurance company.
JPL
Yup.. Now it’s Fox news time to ask questions. Please say fuck you.
burnspbesq
I hate it when I correctly guess the next thing Scalia’s going to pull out of his ass.
http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/11/argument-analysis-building-to-a-scalia-crescendo/
Cacti
Grimes: “I am not Obama!”
Obama: “Damn straight. I win elections.”
schrodinger's cat
@Alex S.: Because she won’t be able to beat the Republicans at their own game. When it comes to race baiting they are the pros. Besides it is a turn off for Democratic voters not in the cohort she was desperately trying to court.
Mike in NC
@Another Holocene Human: So, pretty much the whole country, right? Sounds good to me.
Another Holocene Human
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Yeah, I forgot all about the Inland Empire.
Some of the most white supremacist places are places that were settled by whites who originally emigrated from the South.
However, some places are old Union territory that have been economically suffering for decades and have bought into old time religion, racial resentment, hatred of “welfare”, fear of ill eagles, and so on. I find that development scary and sad.
Another Holocene Human
@Mike in NC: 1/3 of white males who voted in this election voted for Democrats and at least some of them are checking their privilege and doing to good work, right? I mean there’s Chris Hayes and John Scalzi and um … and Hayes has his bad days, too. Not all whites are white supremacists but a majority freak the fuck out if their privilege is challenged, whether they play dress up with hoods or not.
Another Holocene Human
@Elizabelle: I want Warren and Franken in the Senate. What about Gillibrand? Not a good enough campaigner/too bland?
Elizabelle
Good. A line in the sand on healthcare.
Cluttered Mind
Joe Biden has many flaws, as do all living people. A tendency to back down from a tough fight that needs to be fought is not one of them. Who cares if he doesn’t have a filter sometimes, at least that also means that he doesn’t use weasel words and explains straight up what his positions are. People often say that it’s hard to tell what a Democrat stands for, but I don’t think that’s ever going to be a problem with Joe Biden.
Pee Cee
Well, that’d surely fire up the base. He should have done that on Monday. :)
Mike in NC
Stopped by CVS this morning and they had TIME magazine by the cash register. On the cover was none other than Rand Paul, identified as “The Most Interesting Man In Politics”. Seriously.
Maybe they plan to market him as the new JFK.
Alex S.
@schrodinger’s cat:
I guess it depends on whom they’ll nominate. Though I think she can beat them all in folksiness. The fight will be about the hispanic vote, especially if Jeb is the nominee. So race baiting won’t work anyway, though I know what you mean..Obama getting assassinated and all that.. but if she wants to talk about hunting as a little girl or take a couple of shots in South Dakota, it’s fine with me. She might be the first president in a long time who will not play golf.
hoodie
@Belafon: Biden could almost pull off the Bulworth thing. Great potential for campaign events, e.g., “The TransAm Tour”, “The Big Fucking Deal Tour.” Get some biker chicks to sit in his lap. Maybe Biden/Gillibrand, Gillibrand playing the smart daughter embarrassed by her garrulous but loveable dad. Sitcom presidency. No worse than Bonzo.
Another Holocene Human
@mai naem: Carter put Volker in there. Volker in retrospect to me went way too fucking far.
Obama’s economic team did a fucking good job, Yellen is in there now, very different for working people.
Carter wasn’t all bad from my POV but with all the Carter comparisons that have been brought up lately the POTUS who comes off looking bad in that comparison ain’t Obama, politically or policy wise.
Alicia
Maybe I’m not looking in the right places but I just don’t see any Hillary enthusiasm out there.
I’d love if it Biden ran but his health is always an issue (he’s had two aneurysms). We know he’d fight his ass off and wouldn’t back down from what he believes in.
After that, who the hell is there?
Cuomo (oh God no)
O’Malley (He wants to run but I think last night put a nail in his chances)
Cory Booker (Wall Street Democrat)
Elizabeth Warren (she keeps saying no but if everyone else falls by the wayside she might say screw it and run). It’s telling that she had the most success of all the major Democrats campaigning for people. 6 of the eleven candidates she backed won while 5 lost. Other Democrats – like both Clintons – had more dismal records
Gillibrand (I’ve heard that she wants to run)
the Conster
@Alicia:
I wish Sherrod Brown would change his mind.
Mike in NC
I hope to see President Obama hold a press conference shortly before he leaves office where he delivers a few well-aimed kicks to the crotch of Chuck Todd and some other Village Idiots.
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat:
This just made me ragey. I think it’s because I know a lot of working class white people and the ones who aren’t hate-filled spittle-flecked Republicans who want to nuke the Middle East so they can get their genocide boners on want the US to get the FUCK out of fucking with other countries and to have that money invested HERE. In other words, they feel like there is an elite class who is conspiring to screw them and wars overseas are part of it.
Hilary is an aloof elite who is hawkish as fuck, everything she stands for makes working class whites angry, paranoid, and distrustful.
She excites middle class whites, but not working class whites. And her elderly white fans are dying fast.
Violet
@Cacti:
Yeah, me too. And she’s old. The Republicans may be crazy but their potential candidates are at least a generation younger than she is. There’s energy there. And if she doesn’t have a primary season to sharpen her debate and campaigning skills, it could all go very poorly.
Alicia
@the Conster:
Maybe he’d agree to be on the ticket as a VP?
Tree With Water
A sane and measured response* to such a question is a disservice to the country. The question is arrogant and dripping with contempt, and should be called out for it.
*disclaimer: I haven’t the stomach to listen to any politician today.
Elizabelle
I think Hillary’s chance is behind her. We need a candidate for 2016, not 2004.
Immigration is a huge issue for the conservative questioners, isn’t it?
I think it’s the flip side of working class economic unease. The jobless recovery.
skerry
@Violet: I’d be a very happy girl if Hilary would tell us ASAP that she is not a contender. I don’t see her as a positive for the reasons you mention and others. Age is a factor against Joe Biden too.
I’d like to see someone near Obama’s age or younger. I just don’t know who.
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat: I don’t think she was loved anywhere. Baker’s margin was razor-thin so apparently he frightened a lot of people who would ordinarily be happy to vote GOP for gov …
Deval Patrick’s good deeds outweighed his shitty deeds to me. Gonna miss him. This sucks.
Hal
I forced myself to listen to McConnell’s presser on NPR on the way to work. At one point he says if he could he would scrap Obamacare. But, he’s totes willing to work with the President.
He made a comment that there were terrible parts of the law people hated. The mandate, medical device tax, and as he put, the reduction on the 40 hour work week.
Now seriously, how many people in this country know anything about the medical device tax? Some crappy employers have reduced hours by choice, and suck it up on the mandate. It ain’t going anywhere.
But hey, McConnell, whose voice is super irritating, is really, honestly, willing to work with Obama.
Elizabelle
President Obama looks sharp and confident, and he’s a little punchy with the journalists.
srv
@burnspbesq:
It’s about time someone gave that Ham Sandwich a break.
Alicia
What an asinine question that was (the one listed about developing a “better” relationship with Republicans).
As soon as he was elected the Republicans were pissy about him. These are the same people screaming that Obama wasn’t born here, disrespected him right from the beginning and treated him like a servant, yet he’s supposed to bow down, kiss their feet and grovel for their acceptance? Fuck that noise.
Another Holocene Human
@Elizabelle: Obama is making me happy, giving those partisan dishonest reporter a-holes exactly as much respect as they deserve.
mdblanche
@Mike in NC: What ever happened to their previous man-crush, Marco Rubio?
Elizabelle
@Another Holocene Human:
That comes through loud and clear.
Another Holocene Human
@Cluttered Mind: If he runs at least he will a bar that the other candidates have to exceed. C’mon Joe, do it!
He can also sell what the admin has done during the primary season and thereby help the entire party.
rea
@Belafon: I’m starting to think that Joe Biden needs to run for president
Do you know how old the man is? Having a guy turn 75 in the first year of his first term as president is not a good idea.
schrodinger's cat
@mdblanche: They dumped him when they discovered his emerging male pattern baldness.
Cacti
@Violet:
Young people, and young minorities especially, were a big part of the Obama coalition. If the party flacks thing they’re going to just rally around the banner of a bland, 69-year old white lady, I foresee a rude awakening two Novembers from now.
burnspbesq
I’m trying to come up with a reason why California shouldn’t secede and put the rest of y’all in our rear view mirror. All I’ve come up with so far is that secession would mean I have to deal with those ignorant fuckwads at the Franchise Tax Board instead of the competent professionals at the IRS.
mdblanche
@Elizabelle: I’m glad somebody’s feeling that way. Seriously.
Ruckus
@Mike in NC:
A copy at the VA as well. No one was reading it. I saw it and wanted to puke. Is there any corp media that is worth reading?
Alicia
@mdblanche:
Rubio is yesterday’s news. Ted Cruz is their new token teabagger mancrush.
cintibud
Oh for crying out loud get off Grimes case. Being just across the river I was subjected to “OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! He’s gonna get you if Grimes wins!” over and over again on the TV
Obama lost KY by what? 20 points? Where are the legions of Obama voters that would have carried Grimes to victory if only she would have kissed up with Obama? You folks just don’t understand the anti-Obama hysteria around here – she had no chance once the election became nationalized.
Save the “She/He lost because they ran away from Obama” shit for the losers in blue or purple states where it may have made a difference. I’m just not expecting the sparkle ponies to suddenly arrive in the deep red states.
Elizabelle
WaPost website, front page item:
Moderate meaning GOP in Democratic clothing.
ETA: I love how Charles Pierce calls Manchin (D-Anthracite)
Another Holocene Human
@Alicia: I like Cory the Super
MayorSenator but he is the guy who went on live TV and was all, Hey, stop being so harsh on the banks. And for all his superpowers Newark ain’t looking so great.Being a bank guy is not going to play well with the poor people we need to turn out in 2016. Cory the Censored Surname will maybe be able to reinvent himself in the future the way Credit Cards Biden did. But 2016? That would be a serious error. IMHO.
Lady Bug
@Another Holocene Human:
For those of us not watching, any highlights?
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Mike in NC: TIME has lost me for good and damn near gave me a stroke in the process by referring to the Virgin Galactic crash last week as “the end of amateur hour in space.”
Lockheed Martin, Scaled Composites and Burt Rutan are decidedly not “amateur hour”.
Apparently DougJ is running them now and they’ve decided that trolling for clicks is their only hope of survival.
Elizabelle
Good. Addressing the non-voting. It is a serious problem.
JPL
@Cacti: Bill wants her to run though. He wants another term.
schrodinger's cat
@cintibud: As we can see, her strategy worked wonders.
Cacti
@Elizabelle:
I wish Manchin would just go ahead and Caucus with the Rs. But since he’s not the tie breaking vote, he gets nothing from it.
mdblanche
@rea: But he’s a man and everybody thinks men age more gracefully than women, even though it’s in fact usually the other way around.
Roger Moore
@Another Holocene Human:
This is scarcely a new development. There were plenty of areas of the Union that were skeptical of the Civil War, and a lot more where anti-slavery was more about economic competition from slave labor than about any kind of racial equality. The big reason the North was willing to turn its back on Reconstruction and the support of oppressed blacks in the 1870s and 1880s is because too few Northern whites cared.
MomSense
@burnspbesq:
Better get the desalination plants up and running. If you do, I’ll be right over.
Alicia
@Another Holocene Human:
True. He has to know that – right now – his shot to win is very slim. He is way too friendly with Wall Street to win. Although that didn’t hurt Gia Raimondo last night.
He’ll probably wait and see what happens and if Republicans win in 2016, go for 2020.
Elizabelle
re not voting
This. Because our corporate press does NOT cover Obama’s successes fairly, and was in the bag against ACA. They do not want to see Obama or any Democrat succeed. Tax implications there.
And all the Citizens United ads — don’t dare vote for this cretin!
Liberty60
@Another Holocene Human:
Someone else may beat me to it, but you left out the interior of California, the fruit and flower of the Okie migration.
Tenar Darell
@Another Holocene Human: serious question: it’s Massachusetts, with Democratic legislature and all Dem. state offices except for the Governor…how much damage can he realistically do?
the Conster
@Cacti:
There is NO enthusiasm for Hillary among my liberal friends. None. Unfortunately, as I scan the landscape, I don’t see anyone that could generate enthusiasm. I hate to say it, but our chances would be best with a populist younger white guy.
Juju
I love this president and I am glad I voted for him twice, and I would vote for him again if I could.
lamh36
Ole white dude in front made a joke about buying an Obama bi bobble head and the other white bastard talking about “why so I can shoot it!” FUCK YOU ASSHOLE!!!!!!
Fucking old white bastards.
Elizabelle
If our fucking corporate press really cared, they would give Obama an hour for a press conference every 3-4 weeks, at a good hour, where he could directly answer the press and the public could see him respond, in real time.
Because the press recap never adequately covers it, and Obama speaks so clearly.
Those are public airwaves.
And we have a country in serious trouble. The voters sense that.
Roger Moore
@burnspbesq:
Imported water.
Another Holocene Human
I hope Obama is right about Liberia. Damn. Liberia was a US colony. There has been back and forth migration for centuries. Liberia has emerged from an ugly civil war and suffers from a lot of the same inequality, corruption, disenfranchised urban populations as the US. I hope the US Army is doing some good and it won’t be more broken promises like so many aid projects.
Violet
@skerry: The Democrats just do not have an exciting set of candidates waiting on the bench. We keep tossing out people like Hillary and Biden–they’re old. Then Warren–she’s oldish too but she’s also really good where she is and has said she doesn’t want to run.
O’Malley? Who? Gillibrand would be good but she says she’s supporting Hillary. Deval Patrick–says he won’t run. Cory Booker?
It seems like we’re reaching and struggling to come up with names. I can name a bunch of Republican potential candidates right off the top of my head without even thinking about it very much–Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Chris Christie, Rick Santorum, Marco Rubio. Sure they suck, but they’re candidates you can name without even having to think about it. How many more are behind those?
Where’s the Dem bench? It just seems empty to me.
Elizabelle
@Juju:
I am applauding PBO as he steps away. Good, reassuring press conference.
I wish more people could see him without the jackass press filter.
Elizabelle
@Violet:
Where is the Dem bench? That’s a huge problem, Violet, and Hillary is not doing us any favors hogging it.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@burnspbesq: There aren’t any. When I made my first trip out of state as a young child (first one I was old enough to remember, anyway) I knew that “my country” was in no way related to the foreign country I’d just been taken to. Which was Oklahoma, if I recall correctly.
We really should take Washington and Oregon with us, though, I think we’re going to need their water.
“California Republic”, bitches. Visas are temporary only.
@Violet: There isn’t one. You are correct.
Maybe if some folks hadn’t been so quick to dismanle Dean’s 50-state project we might actually have some folks we could run.
schrodinger's cat
@Elizabelle: Warren/Krugman for 2016.
Elizabelle
Off goes the TV.
I am indebted to y’all for alerting me there was a press conference, and this one was good enough I’d like to see the parts I missed and maybe even read a transcript.
C-Span will likely air it numerous times, in full, tonight.
Violet
@burnspbesq: Water. You like water, right? Shame if something happened to it.
raven
Karl is better than Tweety.
Another Holocene Human
@Hal: Medical device tax is not very high. It’s one of those 2%er concerns that Congress will work furiously on while the 99% can go fuck themselves as usual.
The Turtle and the Drunk cry about revenue neutral but where will they find the revenue to replace medical device tax? Also, medical device PRICES are OUT OF CONTROL so taxing them should help drive the fluff down, don’t you think? Or do economic forces only apply when Republicans say they should?
Everybody but everybody who interacts with the medical system knows about pointless imaging and paying through the nose and weird connections between the doctor and the practice and the hospital and the contractor and how they buy this multimillion machines and then need to pay them off $1000 at a time.
Major Major Major Major
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Can’t we just leave SoCal behind so we don’t need a treaty with Colorado and Arizona, and use our own water? (In this headcanon we bring Greater Cascadia and the Republic of Jefferson with us)
bemused
Oh for the love of Gawd, someone drag Chris Matthews off the tv.
schrodinger's cat
@raven: Better for what and which Karl? Marx?
cintibud
@schrodinger’s cat:
Are you kidding me? Are you telling me that she would have done better by embracing Obama? You must live someplace nice filled with reasonable, non-racist people
Another Holocene Human
@Elizabelle: I’m loving it.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@Elizabelle:
I do not look forward to more of this shit, but it’s going to be coming, and it’s going to pour. The die is already being cast everywhere about how this proves Obama and Dems are the real super-mega-hyper partisans and they had to be stopped, but thank god those wily moderate GOPers swooped in to save the day and force Obama’s hand before he became even more of a tyrantl.
Fuck this country. Fuck it long and hard.
mdblanche
@cintibud: There were a number of candidates in blue and purple states who didn’t run from Obama and who even had him come campaign for them. A lot of them lost too. For all the Monday morning quarterbacking, I’ve yet to see any pattern to this election beyond brutal underperformances across the board.
MomSense
@lamh36:
Fuck that asshole! Where was he from?
Elizabelle
@the Conster:
I think so too. Guy or gal. But needs to be a populist.
Hillary as VP could be an interesting prospect. No idea if she would take it, but I fear doom if she heads the ticket. If we’re all not enthusiastic, think how she’ll fare in the general. She’ll have some people waiting and waiting to vote for her as first woman president, and more disgusted with the dynasticism, and Wall Street parasitism, and the overcaution rotating with hawkishness in what are dangerous, dangerous times.
boatboy_srq
@Elizabelle: Makeup, red hair dye, and throw an apostrophe into his last name so it looks Irish. So long as he’s the Blah President, the Teahad will never stoop to working with one of Those People. It’s either that or invite the GOTea over to the WH for T-bones.
/snark
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Wingnuts are committed to making BHO the first (and last) Blah President. That’s how “one-term Presidency” translates in dogwhistle.
Elie
@Elizabelle:
What about the mayors of Los Angeles and San Antonio? Both young, hispanic and passionate.
I would say Deval Patrick but I just can’t see the Democrats picking another black man — though I think he might make a great candidate. He gave an amazing speech at the nomination convention for Obama and he and the Pres are good friends (kiss of death right there)
Tenar Darell
@Violet: Too soon/too young/too big a target….Julian Castro… Wendy Davis… You’re right. Try this, is there anyone you’d like to hear speak at the convention in two years yet? Any sharp grandmothers getting political experience in our states?
Another Holocene Human
@mdblanche: Probably busy paying off the right South Florida Very Silly Party insiders to keep them from running a credible candidate against him in two years.
Hill Dweller
The President repeatedly said the Republicans need to present their agenda to the American people. I think he wants the opportunity to contrast his policies with the wingnut policies.
Good press conference. He seemed unburdened, but that could just be projection on my parts. That version of the President is very hard to demonize, which is likely the reason the Beltway rarely shows more than a snippet of his public remarks.
beltane
@Violet: I really like Gillebrand. Right now, Hillary is like an ancient voice from a half-forgotten era. Nominating her in 2016 would be the equivalent of nominating Eugene McCarthy in 1992. Is there no one else?
schrodinger's cat
@cintibud: I am just pointing out the fact, that she lost. Ergo, her strategy did not succeed. I did not say she should have embraced Obama. And racist or not, no one is going to vote for you if you are so scared of your own shadow that you can’t even admit to voting for the President of your own party.
Hildebrand
@Elizabelle: Yep – that was a solid press conference. I don’t think we have to worry about Obama suddenly caving on the most important issues. He was very solid in talking about infrastructure and immigration, and clearly said that the ACA isn’t going anywhere.
Another Holocene Human
@Cacti: I’m starting to feel she’s even more of a loser with the whites who still vote Democratic than with Blacks, who can call on Bill nostalgia when they hold their nose. Poor whites are not down with the endless wars.
She has donors but no base. She HAD a base but they died.
Re: latinos, what in the hell has she ever offered liberal, progressive, and radical young [email protected] voters?
Applejinx
I just want to know who they’re going to make the new Speaker of the House after Boehner.
If I’m not mistaken, he’ll be third in succession, and I do not think these people are willing to wait two years.
Mike E
@raven: Low bar.
Lady Bug
@lamh36:
At the press conference?! WTF?
Another Holocene Human
@cintibud: Agreed. Shows that a lot of people who comment on liberal blogs drink that CW MSM crap right the fuck up.
Think for yourselves. Look at the votes. Look at the exit polls. Stop repeating Chuck Todd assfax.
Alicia
@Elie:
I don’t know about Garcetti but I have high hopes for Joaquin Castro (congressman from Texas) and Julian Castro (former San Antonio mayor and current HUD head). Maybe they’ll get more visibility and get their names out there. The Dems need fresh blood wherever they can get it.
Elizabelle
@raven:
I might watch Rachel Maddow tonight, although that’s dubious. No MSNBC otherwise.
I agree. Chris Matthews is in the rearview for me. He’s enthusiastically obtuse. (And Tom Brokaw is professionally obtuse. They see Republicans who have not walked the earth since before cell phones. It seems to be the NBC brand.)
Another Holocene Human
@Lady Bug: He told one reporter who kept pressing on his talks with the GOP over ACA, should I cancel my meeting on Friday with Mitch McConnell and negotiate with you?
Alex S.
@Violet:
The bench… I guess we can limit the search to Senators, Governors, top government officials, the House leadership, and the majors of New York, Los Angeles or Chicago. These guys are so old… Martin O’Malley is the youngest governor at 51. Bill De Blasio is 53. The House leadership is old or talentless. Top government officials… they are all so invisible… Is Jack Lew still Secretary of the Treasury? Kerry and Hagel are obviously no options… It’s really just the Senators, but many of them are solid, boring technocrats.
Mnemosyne
@cintibud:
Here’s the thing, though — AFAIC tell, what Grimes’s stance did was alienate minority voters (particularly African-American voters) from voting for her. Yes, Nunn lost in Georgia, but by embracing Obama, she was able to get much closer than Grimes was.
Frankly, most of us are assuming that white voters in the South who currently vote Republican are a lost cause. They’re not going to vote for any Democrat, ever, no matter how far they run from Obama. So it becomes about finding enough votes with minority voters and white Democrats to get around those intractable white Republican voters.
Chat Noir
@Elizabelle:
Yeah, that’s what I thought, too.
ETA: Those reporters could not be more snotty in their question delivery. The level of disrespect aimed at President Obama is disgraceful.
Violet
@the Conster:
I think they’d be best with a younger Latino guy who could “pass” as white. Someone in like George P. Bush–who was just elected Land Commissioner in Texas. As a Republican, of course. But that kind of person in the Democratic party and with a populist bent could do really well.
beltane
In the early days of DKos there was a user who went by the name of Dump Terry McAuliffe (as chair of the DNC). Right now we need a movement to dump Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
Comrade Luke
Democratic voters come out in presidential elections because that’s the only time the Democratic apparatus makes an effort to convey anything to voters on a national scale. And that’s because since it’s a national election, the media has to cover national issues.
In off-year elections, that’s not the case.
But it doesn’t matter to Republicans. Republicans are Starbucks: they’re shitty, but they’re consistent. No matter what state you’re in, you know what you’re going to get. What alternative do Democrats provide? What consistent message are they conveying, across the country, even if they have to work twice, three times as hard to get the message across? And what good are they doing if they’re working harder, without any real message?
But hey, let’s blame the voters, and the media, and let the Democratic party sit on its ass doing nothing, soliciting donations from the same sources as Republicans, patiently waiting until there are enough minority voters to deliver us to the promised land. Because as we all know, minorities only vote Democratic, as a block, every election. But it’ll only happen in a presidential election, and thank god the census falls in a presidential year. Otherwise we’re screwed even though we have six years to prepare.
What could possibly go wrong.
Mnemosyne
Also, I’m just going to come right out and say it: I can’t help but notice that a lot of the high-profile losers last night were women. I suspect we ran up against a certain amount of entrenched sexism along with entrenched racism.
Alicia
Obama was snarky and blunt and I loved every minute of it. I could care less if the Republicans think he was arrogant or glib or whatever they hell they will say.
I truly hope Obama is in IDGAF mode and is going to fight. What does he have to lose?
Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.)
@Elizabelle:
Seriously. What is she doing? What’s she waiting for? The longer she farts around, the longer everybody else is going to keep to the side. Everybody just kind of assumes she’s running, and that if she does, she’ll win the nomination. But she really isn’t helping the party or the country by dragging this little game out the way she is. I wonder if she might be risking pissing off a lot of the people she’d need most to win.
Gin & Tonic
@Another Holocene Human: There is precisely zero chance of two black presidents in a row.
Elizabelle
@Another Holocene Human: Think that was Major Garrett, not sure, and the reporters laughed too.
lamh36
@MomSense: north Carolina. Fuckin pissed me off.
Alex S.
@Mnemosyne:
But that’s because Democrats in general nominate more women than Republicans.
lamh36
@Lady Bug: I’m in Hawaii on a circle island tour. I have to be with the idiot for the next 5hr
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat: What is this supposed to mean?
Cintibud is right.
2012. Romney 60.49% with 1,087,190 votes. Obama 37.80% with 679,370 votes. Also, they made the GOP drain their coffers defending their Senate leader and forced him to worry about his own state which probably helped a lot of smaller races that have been drowned by GOP money in the past.
2014 McConnell 56.2% with 806,015 votes, gee where did those GOP votes go? Grimes 584,444 voters for 40.7%. Much lower point spread.
Grimes had some weaknesses but don’t confuse a blue state with a red state. Come on.
cintibud
@schrodinger’s cat: Hey, Grimes gave as good as she got. Looking at her hard hitting commercials I thought she really had a chance because she showed what a slime ball Yertle really is. KY voters didn’t care because she was Obama’s minion. Yes she lost, but I don’t blame her strategy. Embracing Obama is crazy for a KY politician running for state wide office. “It’s so crazy it might work!” is a line that very rarely works outside of movies.
ETA – I didn’t know much about Grimes until the onslaught of ads. Anything you may have seen on the news or a blog I saw hundreds of times. McConnell had a ton of ads too but there were very few attacks on Grimes herself, either personally or her policies. It was all “Obama needs Grimes!” over and over again. If someone else ran they would only need to change the name and the photo.
pseudonymous in nc
@Another Holocene Human:
It’s also something that has Franken and Klobuchar whining for repeal because Medtronic. And again, it’s very easy to break up whatever Dem coalition might exist because of specific state interests, whether it’s King Coal or King Oil or King Credit Card or King Medical Device.
@mdblanche:
The pattern is the one that Josh Marshall described today, and it dates back to Bob Dole in 1993: people expect mandates for governance out of presidential elections, and when it’s possible for the opposition to fuck shit up and be rewarded for it in the midterms, they will fuck shit up. Yertle bet his political career on fucking shit up, and he has finally been rewarded for it.
Elizabelle
@Mnemosyne:
Yes. Prezactly. And Joni Ernst ran as a white guy wearing a skirt. She’s even a military veteran. Of course, the WaPost did a “look — a woman candidate who’s figured out how to appeal to white males!”
mdblanche
@Roger Moore:
For example there was a Midwestern state that didn’t even allow free blacks to be permanent residents prior to the Civil War. In 1858 the Republican Senate candidate there was some tall, lanky fellow who lost but went on to win his next political contest two years later.
hilts
Jake Tapper and Jim Acosta expressed their disappointment that Obama didn’t use a colorful word like “thumping’ or “shellacking” to describe last night’s election results. These guys are seriously fucked up.
Violet
@Elie:
Julian Castro is now in the Cabinet. He’s no longer mayor.
@Tenar Darell: Julian Castro has been a mayor and now a Cabinet member. You really can’t run and win the presidency with that pedigree alone. He needs more time. Wendy Davis just got thumped in her run for Governor of Texas. She’s been a state Senator. Too little experience to run for president.
The Dems may have a bench but they’re at least one cycle away from being reasonable candidates. Probably longer.
Elizabelle
@cintibud:
Jeebus. Kentucky is such a beautiful state, but maybe the Democratic candidate should be a lump of coal marinating in a glass of bourbon.
Violet
@beltane: I like Gillibrand too but she says she’s supporting Hillary. I don’t know who else. I really don’t.
Archon
Obama’s press conference was a clinic in Presidential composure and dignity. The man is good. It’s a shame so many Dems felt compelled to run away from him and his record. He’s the best we’ve got, that’s for sure.
Another Holocene Human
@Roger Moore: There’s indifference and then there’s open hostility, which is where we are at right now.
Back then, whites in those areas wouldn’t have fucked their own selves, but now they will, just get “protect” themselves from brown people.
What I saw heard tasted felt in Upstate New York this summer was HATE. Not “fuck them, let’s take care of ourselves.” HATE.
Elizabelle
@Violet:
Maybe Gillibrand needs to be Hillary’s Howard Baker. As in, “we have a situation here, and your position is untenable and not good for the country or our party.”
ETA: of course, anyone from NY is going to have to fellate Wall Street. 2016 might be a bad year for that. Better to run against Wall Street and its excesses and corporations sitting on huge piles of cash and not hiring American workers.
skerry
@beltane: I’d like to see her head on a pike. Yours is the first comment I’ve seen that mentions DWS. Why aren’t people yelling at her – the DNC Chair?
Bring back Howard Dean and the 50 state strategy.
Another Holocene Human
@Alicia: Rhode Island is another planet. It is owned by the richie riches, has been since Newport elite days. Still no taxes on their luxuries. They made inroads in Mass but RI is their paradise. They keep control because (economically disadvantaged) RC voters eat themselves stressing about slutty gays and slutty wimmens.
hilts
@schrodinger’s cat:
“Coakley croaked again”
When will MA democrats begin deportation proceedings against Coakley?
Another Holocene Human
@Elizabelle: Obama also stressed, though, that the federal government hasn’t come through for a lot of people and part of the low turnout was an expression of that frustration. He gets it. Too bad a lot of Dem “leaders” don’t.
beltane
@Violet: If Hillary doesn’t make her move someone should start a draft Gillibrand movement if only to generate excitement on the Dem side. This shouldn’t be about Hillary’s dreams, aspirations, or ambitions, it should be about what is in the best interests of the nation and the Democratic party.
Elizabelle
You guys have cheered me up a lot. I cannot tell you how sad I was overnight, and this morning.
A friend came over to check on me (she voted!), and I was crying. And I never cry (except for sentimental movies).
Mike in NC
@Tenar Darell:
In the case of Mitt Romney, he got elected once, went AWOL for the last couple of years in office, and then launched three unsuccessful presidential campaigns (yes, I’m counting 2016).
hilts
h/t http://www.pressherald.com/2014/11/05/sen-angus-king-set-to-announce-his-caucus-decision/
Patrick
@cintibud:
I will let you argue with Jim Clyburn who said it very well:
Rep. Jim Clyburn (D-S.C.) said Tuesday that Alison Lundergan Grimes may have “botched” a campaign opportunity when she refused to state whether or not she voted for President Obama.
Clyburn said Tuesday morning on MSNBC that Grimes’ polling numbers “started to plummet after she botched that question so significantly.” Clyburn was referring to an interview with the Louisville Courier-Journal last month, in which Grimes was asked — four times — whether or not she voted for Obama in 2008 and 2012. Each time she was asked, Grimes didn’t give an answer, instead stating that she was a delegate for Hillary Clinton’s 2008 presidential campaign.
http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/271237/speedreads-rep-jim-clyburn-alison-lundergan-grimes-botched-interview-with-her-stance-on-obama
the Conster
@Another Holocene Human:
Yeah, people seem to have retreated to their tribes, and Republicans are unsurpassed at getting people to turn on each other. White women are white first, women 2nd and so on, since white is where the power is, who doesn’t want to take advantage of any chance to solidify your grip on the ladder at this time? I have a news flash for white women though – your whiteness won’t protect you from being a 2nd class citizen. Denial is a helluva drug.
cintibud
@Elizabelle:
Democrats can and do win in KY, but you better believe they are white and bow down to Big Coal and the NRA. It’s a lot like WV in that respect
mdblanche
@Mnemosyne:
That strategy could win Georgia in the not too distant future. In Kentucky, it pretty much consigns the Democratic Party to extinction.
Elizabelle
@skerry:
I effing HATED the emails I was getting from Democrats this cycle.
Remember how everyone was into “Don’t Think of An Elephant” in 2004 or maybe 2008?
So what do you get from the DCCC and DNC and DSCC and Democratic candidates:
unless you send more money, for an election where money is gushing like a sewer after a hurricane.
I wondered if some of them demotivated voters.
I mostly thought “why should I give money to these surrender monkeys? Get out and fight. Don’t whine to me. Yes, it’s hard.”
Patrick
Or how about against the Democratic primary voters that elected her to be their candidate?
Another Holocene Human
@Tenar Darell: It is a good question. Towards the end of the campaign a lot was being shared online about what a vandal and liar Baker is and his running mate is a hardcore RW conservative who voted for the 1913 anti-miscegenation law remaining in place (inside baseball: this was about same sex marriage more proximately, so a double-ugly) who may end up being governor if Baker ends up under indictment which is an outside possibility.
Crook GOPers play nice with the crook machine (see: Cellucci) so potentially? Could be bad for a lot of people. However, the Lege is not, collectively, immune to reason. Activists are going to have to stay vigilant for the next four years and keep their delegates on speed dial.
ETA: shorter: it’s certainly no New York State
skerry
@Elizabelle: I’d vote a Gillibrand/Castro ticket. Pick a Castro. Either one.
Violet
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
At the very least I suspect she wanted to wait until the midterms were over to announce. It’s kind of bad form to announce you’re running for president before the midterms.
Belafon
@cintibud: In Texas, Republicans ran an ad tying Wendy Davis to Obama. If you have a D after your name, you’d better be prepared to answer for your views on the president. And this will also happen in 2016.
beltane
@skerry: DWS has been such a nonentity that I had to look up to see if she still was DNC chair. Empty chair, indeed, though a Clinton loyalist.
We really need to do what we did after the loss in 2004 which is to actually pay attention to who is running the party and how they are running things.
Elizabelle
@hilts:
Dog bless Angus King.
I think he said that before the election too. I was not sure why some pundits were saying he might switch …
Liberty60
@Violet: I’m surprised no one has mentioned California Lt. Governor Gavin Newsom.
Maybe not the most leftist leftie to ever swerve left, but he projects crossover appeal, to me.
Mnemosyne
@lamh36:
FWIW, if he said that in Hawaii, he’d better hope not too many locals overheard him. They are very proud of their Honolulu-born president there.
catclub
@Alicia:
When her popularity is over 80% with democrats, you are not looking.
MomSense
@Elizabelle:
A couple months ago he said that he was considering it. It was right after he voted against Paycheck Fairness.
Sherparick
I do hope Steve Israel and Debbie Wasserman Schultz lose their party jobs. He is the worst kind of FIRE lobby Democrat and she is just terrible at the DNC job and party building with the state parties. All money and power is kept in D.C. with Rahm’s pals in the consultant community. Both friends of Rahm and tight with the Democratic consultants lobby.
However, you message and people are the small part of the story since mid-terms in second term Presidencies usually find the President’s enemies aroused and his supporters apathetic. TR, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, Eisenhower, Reagan, and Bush II had terrible second term mid-terms. Its made worse by the demographics, particularly in the South as former Democrats and evangelicals swung into the Republican Party in the 1990s. They might have been DLC Democrats, but really it is a bit mind blowing to realize most of the Governors and Senators in the Deep South were still Democrats, and moderate Democrats, at that after the 1990 election (Texas – Bentsen, Mark Pryor’s father, David, and Dale Bumpers in Arkansas, Boren in Oklahoma, both of Alabama and Georgia Senators were Democrats, and South Carolina – I doubt there will be a Democratic Senator outside of North Carolina and perhaps Georgia in a generation.)
Off year elections in purple states will be tough and the local party in those states will have to learn to do without the vultures in D.C.
Gin & Tonic
@Another Holocene Human: WTF?
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq:
I wish you fucking assholes would. Just secede and then break up into six little fiefdoms. All wondering where your water’s going to come from.
You bunch of useless douche.
MomSense
@Elizabelle:
My son referred to those emails as his break-up emails with Nancy Pelosi.
Mnemosyne
My thought on strategy: Obama and the rest of the Democrats should be non-committal (possibly even fake some conciliatory gestures) until the new Congress is sworn in. Then kick ’em in the balls with obstruction. Don’t telegraph your moves ahead of time, fellas.
Another Holocene Human
@the Conster: Needs to be a real populist, not fake-on Rand Paul or Schweitzer closet supremacist populist.
Needs to be someone who is talking about living wages, no cuts to social security, improving ACA. And making it easy to vote.
Maybe we need to talk about Medicare starting at 55.
And DREAM act has to be on the platform.
Give liberals something to fight FOR. (See above.) Whatever their age or color.
Corner Stone
@schrodinger’s cat:
Obviously it did, since she lost the state by less than Obama did in 2012.
Yippee!!
Give it a rest, friend.
Belafon
@skerry: I wouldn’t be surprised if the Democratic candidate, no matter who he/she is, picks a Castro.
BTW, if there’s one thing I can be proud of for being a Democrat, it’s this: I had to write “he/she.” Please tell me when you think that would ever be a serious thought for Republicans.
Keith G
@Elizabelle:
That’s not what the polling data says. She may well have a solid future.
I have no problem with an old woman being president, but whoever wins the Democratic nomination better have access to brass knuckles and the willingness and skill to use them. By 2016, the technical advantages held by the Democrats will be largely ameliorated and there is a chance that the GOP will have learned from their mistakes and be less likely to be entirely self destructive in the presidential contest.
@Elizabelle:
He could do that. Probably in a couple of different ways. His last answer touched on that (being better at advancing “The Message”), but that’s a thing he has said before without an appreciable chance in process.
His take on executive action on immigration was strong, even tactically brilliant. Glad that type of gamesmanship is finally entering his thinking.
the Conster
@Another Holocene Human:
It’s time to draft Sherrod Brown. I mean, wouldn’t he automatically deliver Ohio?
skerry
@beltane: I knew she was still chair because I got about 50 bazillion emails from her asking for money.
Corner Stone
@Violet:
No doubt. Dude’s a joke and a third rate runabout.
Mnemosyne
@Liberty60:
He also notoriously cheated on his wife and had a messy divorce. Said ex-wife is now a correspondent on Fox News. Can you say, Free bad publicity 24/7?
ETA: Sorry, slight correction — Newsom was already divorced from Guilfoyle (though there were rumors of cheating) when the cheating scandal broke. He got caught with his campaign manager’s wife.
schrodinger's cat
@cintibud: Not answering whether she voted for Obama hasn’t seemed to have help her win. Cowardice is not a good political strategy.
FlipYrWhig
@the Conster:
Totally! Maybe that guy, you know, who’m I thinking of, the guy with the hat, or the one from that show… Help me out, it’s right on the tip of my tongue, that really good candidate who actually exists.
Patrick
@catclub:
Not sure what the 80% is. Is it approval rating? Sure I approve of her. But I am not enthusiastic.
Another Holocene Human
@mdblanche: NC and actually VA did very well.
Florida, though WTF.
This election proved one thing: labor can’t win statewide elections in red states, purple states, or blue states. Stop trying, stop crying, and start putting your agenda on ballot measures and work to win state legislative races. And local races.
schrodinger's cat
@Corner Stone: A loss is loss, losing by smaller margin doesn’t get you a cookie.
ETA: I don’t even think it is about Obama, weaseling on that question, made her look weak.
Violet
@skerry: There were a lot of comments last night about how invisible and terrible Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is. I don’t think I saw her once.
beltane
@Mnemosyne: I thought there was some messiness with his personal life. Too bad. Any other West Coast people we’re overlooking?
Cluttered Mind
@Sherparick: From what I understand Debbie Wasserman Schultz has her job and holds onto it for no reason other than that she knows where all the bodies are buried and everyone knows she’s more than willing to expose them if her personal power is threatened.
It’s a problem.
FlipYrWhig
@Belafon:
Ernst ’16! Mmm, Bacon!
the Conster
@FlipYrWhig:
George Clooney? Yeah, other than Sherrod Brown who has not shown any interest I can’t think of anyone either. Which sucks.
cintibud
@Patrick:
I agree that was a tactical mistake that certainly hurt her, but I doubt that would make a difference. However even the linked article says Clyburn thought “Grimes should have stated that she voted for Obama but disagrees with him on key issues, such as energy and coal policies.” According to some posters here that is still “running away from Obama” and they would probably still be saying it’s the reason she lost.
I doubt Rep Clyburn saw anywhere near the volume of ads I saw. If Grimes has said she voted for Obama we would have seen adds over an over again with an out of context qoute “I voted for Obama” over and over and over again. It was a no win situation.
FlipYrWhig
@schrodinger’s cat: What if bravery isn’t a good political strategy either?
Another Holocene Human
@Elie: Patrick should take a couple of years off and go back to Chicago and run for something there. Unless the conservadems and authoritarians and crooks have so fucked the state they are going to way of Indiana. I hope not.
Days of reckoning in Midwest right now and it is ugly.
Chris
@Another Holocene Human:
I think that pretty well describes the conservative base as a whole nowadays.
Hill Dweller
The Village is melting down because Obama was upbeat in his press conference. I hope he trolls those fuckers for the remainder of his presidency.
skerry
@Patrick: If asked, I’d say I approve of her. If asked, I’d say I would prefer not to vote for her for President. Different questions.
SiubhanDuinne
@beltane:
She sent out a “thank you all for your hard work even though it didn’t come out the way we wanted” message earlier today on FB, and was really getting beat up in the comments! Too bad she probably doesn’t read her own wall.
BTW, has Kay been around? I feel the need of some of her good insights. Maybe I’ve just missed her recently — my online time has been spotty — but I don’t think I’ve seen a comment, let alone a front page from her in weeks.
hilts
@Patrick:
Agreed. Those MA Dems fucked up big time.
@Elizabelle:
Yes. One ray of sunshine in a black absurd cosmos.
burnspbesq
@Roger Moore:
Let somebody else grow the world’s almonds.
Another Holocene Human
@Elizabelle: Brokaw is a ragey, self-centered, rich white man who is all about himself. I tuned him out years ago with that greatest generation crap. Authoritarian fart huffer.
Violet
@Corner Stone:
Don’t care what anyone else thinks, I love it when you do this.
Corner Stone
@schrodinger’s cat: So she could have put up a sex tape of her and Obama and lost by 12 points then.
This is stupid. Drop the stupid fee fees, and I hate it that I have to use that stupid fucking term. But it’s just ridiculous. She was in KY. Right here and right now. Tell us who was going to save her when she owned Obama?
Who?
Another Holocene Human
@Mnemosyne: Do you have numbers of AA voting for/against Grimes versus Obama?
I looked total figs and Dem turnout was not down as much as GOP turnout.
I know you are a numbers geek. Please substantiate this claim.
Also if I’m not mistaken there are more POC in GA than KY.
schrodinger's cat
@FlipYrWhig: May be it isn’t, but whatever strategy the Democrats had hasn’t worked either. It is time to try something different.
Another Holocene Human
@beltane: Florida’s turnout ought to be hung around her Florida Blue Key, backstabbing neck.
Corner Stone
@burnspbesq:
Oh no!
Will you at least give us a deal on importing fantastic movies like Transformers 6, The Transporter 8 and Die Hard: Die or Die Harder!
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Liberty60: Because he is a shitbag, a poor-hating moral black hole who had no qualms about fucking his campaign managers wife. And his best friend’s wife. One could say he’s a bit of a sex addict. And a drunk. And a pill-popper. And (all of the previously-cited issues would be forgiveable in the right candidate) a conservadem who’s go-to position on anything is to privatize it, and if that’s not possible, rewrite the laws concerning it so it can be privatized. Also, a shit politician who knows nothing about building consensus, but who operates under the good old “my way or the highway” rules of Henry the Eighth.
If I had the time I could write a book, but I don’t. The man is unfit for public office, period.
Having lived under his mismanagement in SF, I swore I’d never vote for the man. And I haven’t. I don’t vote GOP but the Lieutenant Governor box on my ballot has gone unchecked for three elections straight now, and I’m proud to say so. If you want to drive the Democratic Party straight off a cliff, I guess he’s your guy, but for me, I prefer winning.
Violet
@burnspbesq:
Take it up with your almond growers. I’m sure they’ll be glad to have the water spigot turned off.
mdblanche
@Smedley Darlington Prunebanks (formerly Mumphrey, et al.):
A decent interval after the midterms. Presidential candidates don’t announce it publicly this far in advance, especially when one of their own is still in the White House. I’m guessing that behind the scenes any other potential candidates already know her intentions. Personally, I think she’ll run.
@hilts: I never thought his musings about switching were serious. In today’s polarized political climate switching costs you more goodwill from your ex-allies than you get in trust from your ex-enemies. I’m still worried about Manchin switching though since WV is flipping so fast it might be the less risky move for him.
Elie
@skerry:
I asked about her at least twice on other threads and no one answered. Yeah, I want her Fired! What a horror show!
cintibud
@SiubhanDuinne: I’ve seen Kay in a few comment threads, but not a FP post in weeks. I hope she takes over the Ohio Dem party from the slack jawed yokels who gave us two disaster candidates in major, winnable elections – the incredible invisible man Lee Fischer in 2010 against Portman (Enabling Portman to help Kasich pound on Ted Strickland in an incredibly tight race), Then Ed “Can get there by bus?” Fitzgerald against what was once a very unpopular Kasich. I know Kay could do a hell of a lot better
Another Holocene Human
@skerry: Dean’s living it up raking in the lobby bucks. He liked to pall around with white supremacists anyway. Kiss him goodbye.
schrodinger's cat
@Corner Stone: Its not about Obama, Gore pulled the same stunt with Bill Clinton, it didn’t work even then.
hilts
@cintibud:
@Patrick:
I posted a link to that Clyburn story last night. We’ll never know how things would have played out had Grimes followed his advice, but I think he made a compelling case.
Trollhattan
I have demanded my NH brother to go kick Mass and Maine in the balls, after taking a bow for (again) ending Scotty Hotpants’ political career. This is the other thing that saves my mood today:
Elie
@mdblanche:
Well they may not announce but I got a nice funding request envelope from Hillary 2016.
It came several days before the mid-terms and I thought that it was unseemly so threw it in the garbage. That is HRH to me — unseemly and entitled. The previous month she and/or her minions criticized Obama on several issues. I was pissed about that too.
Starfish
@Major Major Major Major: I live in the district that Udall represented before he went to the Senate. I like him and think he did some good stuff. I thought that his campaign material hit a single note over and over again. The stuff I saw was completely targeting women’s issues; and though I am in that target demographic, I felt like he should have been appealing to other people too.
I like that he pushed back against the military industrial complex with stuff like (http://www.markudall.senate.gov/?p=blog&id=4436), and we need more Senators who do this type of thing.
mdblanche
@skerry: Fidel or Raul?
Another Holocene Human
@hilts: I’m not surprised. King threw in with Michaud. People in Maine are taking sides. I hope the good guys can get a majority in 2016 for the House and the Maine legislature. The medicaid thing is a killer.
Patrick
@cintibud:
I personally think that would have been a fine answer. And she could have added something about the ACA and how it has helped so many in KY, reminded folks about bin Laden and how the economy has improved since Obama took over.
By triangulating it was so easy to make fun of her and she simply looked weak.
As a contrast I recall Paul Wellstone in 2002. He was adamantly against the Iraq war in 2002 and he was also up for re-election (this is just before his death). I realize he was in purple/bluish state (unlike KY). Still, he was unapologetic in his opposition to the war. At the time the war was supported by most Americans. It made him look strong.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Corner Stone: We’ll simply cut off your porn supply. You’d die in a hour.
Elizabelle
@MomSense:
I missed that. Thank you. (OT: enjoyed a recent LATimes photo spread on Bangor ME and Steven King’s house. I’ll find it for you.)
@Sherparick:
Draft Howard Dean. Now goddamit.
Fire the surrender monkeys. Bring in the hounds.
Violet
@Elie: That can’t be Hillary’s official campaign since she hasn’t announced yet. Some associated SuperPAC?
beltane
@Another Holocene Human: Yep. Broward County at only around 40% is not a good indication of an ability to mobilize voters.
Another Holocene Human
@Elizabelle: I doubt it was relevant but emotionally, I agree.
FlipYrWhig
@schrodinger’s cat: You’re right–but nobody knows what that Something Different is. And the other certainty is that Something Different probably isn’t going to carry Kentucky, Arkansas, West Virginia, etc. Nothing will. That’s gone. Like I was saying earlier, if some version of Clinton ’92 couldn’t do it, I guarantee you that no version of Obama ’08 will do it either.
Elizabelle
Take it away, Andy Borowitz.
cintibud
@schrodinger’s cat: @schrodinger’s cat:
LOL, now this is getting amusing. I didn’t realize Gore was running for President of KY.
Look, that was a national election. Embracing the Clinton record may have helped Dem turnout in Fla, OH and other purple states that Gore lost and made a difference in the tightest Presidential race in history
ETA – Yes, I know Gore won Florida, but it could have been a no doubter
hilts
@mdblanche:
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/joe-manchin-angus-king-swing-senators-112595.html?hp=r1
Mnemosyne
@Another Holocene Human:
I don’t have any numbers yet, sorry. I’m mostly basing it on news reports. From what I heard, African-American voters were pretty fired up for Nunn in Georgia.
I’m going to be very curious to see what the turnout numbers are in Voter ID states vs. non-Voter ID states. I suspect that turnout is going to be lower in Voter ID states, but I haven’t bothered to look up the numbers yet. Here in California, turnout was pretty low — 29.9 percent statewide — but we didn’t really have anything thrilling on the ballot and there was very little doubt that Jerry Brown was going to be re-elected. We are a non-Voter ID state.
Trollhattan
@Cluttered Mind: She was on Stu/Colbert (can’t recall which) sometime in the last year and was shockingly dogmatic about not normalizing relations with Cuba. That may be SOP in Florida but I found it boggling for a supposed national party leader. At least that party.
Elie
@Violet:
Probably. That said, she shouldn’t be letting these people do this shit right now. It doesn’t look good and I tell you, it will stick in my mind along with her other shennigans criticizing Obama about Syria and having her other goons attack him on that he blocked having the last Secy of State buried at Arlington — . Roger Cohen dutifully had a scathing column criticizing Obama and citing her comment.
She can kiss my ass. I guess I would vote for her IF she is the nominee. Maybe.
Mnemosyne
@Elizabelle:
I think that’s what Elie was saying yesterday, too — like it or not, in many ways this was the Ebola election. Conservatives got people all freaked out and riled up against The Other and this is the result. Honestly, though, I doubt that Obama publicly freaking out or banning flights from West Africa would have done one lick of good.
FlipYrWhig
@Patrick:
And then she would have lost anyway.
RaflW
Always classy. Always.
It is looking like a 26,000 vote margin, or 1.4%. Yeah, it’s kinda tight, but c’mon.
Anyway, a late-breaking bright spot for this very part time Coloradoan.
mdblanche
@Mnemosyne: I wouldn’t be surprised to see some drama involving the lame duck Congress. No time for any conciliatory fake-outs.
@Hill Dweller:
You (and Obama) just made me smile for the first time in days.
hilts
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Damn, that was a thorough takedown of Newsom.
Elie
@Another Holocene Human:
Is he from chicago? I did not know that!
Alicia
@Mnemosyne:
NY was low as well (only 32.5%) and we’re also non-Voter ID. Then again, we had Cuomo at the top of the ticket and he inspires virtually no one (we also knew he would win easily as well).
Turgidson
@Liberty60:
The skeletons in that fellow’s closet are large and numerous to march on Berlin.
Past alcoholism and adultery (with the wife of his top advisor, no less) are the general and colonel of this skeleton army. And even though this country doesn’t hate teh gay so much anymore, his national profile is limited to being the renegade leftist mayor in SF who legalized gay marriage by decree.
Nope. Not a national candidate.
phoebes-in-santa fe
The Democratic election strategy seems to consist of three things.
1. Hope that Hillary runs in 2016
2. Hope that the country’s demographics change sufficiently
3. Hope that the Republicans nominate candidates who are so totally bat-shit crazy that they’ll say something that will be so awful that voters can’t possibly vote for them.
Too bad its a really stupid strategy. 1, Pinning our electoral renaissance on the back of an almost 70 year old woman who – at best – arouses ambivalent support is stupid. Even if she runs, how strong are her coattails?
2,The demographics have supposedly BEEN changing, but not fast enough (through degenerating health care might take care of that) and the Republicans have NOT disappeared. They seem to be doing just fine. Maybe they can’t win the presidency, but they seem to have plenty of staying power on the Congressional and State levels
3. The Republicans got lucky – or smart – this time around and nominated candidates who were wise enough to keep their bat-shit crazy ideas on the down-low.
No, this horrendous defeat cannot be recovered in two years without a lot of soul-searching by our party’s leaders and members. I don’t think Hillary is the answer – I’ll vote for her, but not enthusiastically – and we need to develop a bench. So far we have no one willing to take the chance to go against her. So, we have to mourn today and get to work tomorrow.
Elie
@Mnemosyne:
Maybe. I don’t think he would ever do that,though. Not his way…
Lady Bug
@Elizabelle:
I have feeling that we’ll be hearing quite a few stories about the “Republican Economic Recovery” over the next few months too!
Keith G
@Corner Stone:
Yes, there is sense in this. And there is sense in being seen as a person able to avoid making a fool of themselves, or as Clyburn put it…
It reminds me of the arguments against taking executive action on immigration before the election since it would hurt folks like Udall.
Christ on a crouton. That’s some nuclear-grade middle of the road thinking there….and as Jim Hightower told us
FlipYrWhig
@hilts:
With a quick change of state, also known as what Allison Lundergan Grimes tried to run a whole campaign on. It’s not a bad theory. It matches the real experience in those states, whereby people have been willing to vote for the local party but recoil from the national one. This is also why it’s hard to fault Grimes. Trying to finesse that difference between the local and national Democratic Party is the worst strategy ever pursued, except for all the others.
Violet
@catclub:
Do you have a link for Hillary’s 80% popularity with Democrats? If the question is, “Will you vote for her?” I can see the answer being 80% yes. If the question is, “Are you enthusiastic about Hillary as the presidential nominee?” I’d be surprised to see 80% yes.
Chris
@Mnemosyne:
Playing to fear doesn’t work well for us. The people who respond to it most are the ones who hate us already. Playing to the Ebola and ISIS freakouts would just have led them to say “see, Obama’s losing control. A real man would never have let it get this far in the first place.”
CONGRATULATIONS!
@hilts: Oh goody, our very own John McCain. Except this one will vote against Dems repeatedly, secure in the knowledge that his job is safe forever.
beltane
2014 saw the oldest electorate in American history: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/05/1342346/-14-electorate-oldest-ever
askew
Hillary will announce by January at the latest.
I still think O’Malley has an opening against her especially in Iowa and Nevada. Hillary’s hawkishness will hurt her in Iowa and O’Malley has gotten a lot of attention in the Spanish language media for his work on child refugee crisis and his pro-immigration policies.
FlipYrWhig
@Keith G:
And the way you finesse them that satisfies everybody is? You can’t do it. What she tried didn’t work. The opposite of what she tried wouldn’t work either. She has to take the hit and zing Mitch on something else. Whenever I saw her public appearances, she was genuinely doing a good job of that. The media got wrapped up in this “Everyone Hates
ChrisObama” thing and never let up. Maybe she did as well as a Democrat running statewide in Kentucky can do.Howard Beale IV
@phoebes-in-santa fe: #3 is possible if you Ratfuck the GOP primaries.
d58826
@mai naem: One half of the GOOPers in Louisiana think Obama is at fault for the failed response to hurricane Katerina. So yes he is at fault for everything past/present and future.
Mnemosyne
@FlipYrWhig:
I still think there was a better way for Grimes to finesse the question, possibly without even using the word “vote.” Something like, I thought he was the best man for the job at the time, but obviously there are things I disagree strongly with him on.
schrodinger's cat
Democrats should have embraced the income inequality message, made Republicans the party of the 1%, which they are and have always been.
hilts
@Another Holocene Human:
Has Susan Collins ever won by less than 20 points?
Corner Stone
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
You can haz my most sincerest apologies now? Please don’t go.
SFAW
@hilts:
She’s not THE problem, although she is A problem. But considering that the polls had her getting beaten easily (thanks for helping depress Dem turnout, Globe!), and considering that – as all Rethugs do in places other than Deep Red states – Baker played the “Hey I’m a moderate! I would be a Dem in any other state!” shuck-and-jive routine, she did better than I expected.
She’s still a lousy campaigner, especially when compared to Patrick, but she’s not a complete fucking loser. (Or “loosah” as they say in the Bay State.) But, as with national Dems, there’s no bench, or the ones that might be interesting to watch (e.g., Capuano) aren’t interested. [Yes, I remember that Capuano lost to her in the 2010 primary.] But a large part of the blame also falls on the voters, for being so fucking dim.
Another Holocene Human
@Liberty60: Isn’t he one of those libertine anti-labor sorts? Meh. I liked it when he stuck it to the Religious Reich but that’s about it.
Corner Stone
@Keith G: Come on, friend. Clyburn has his own agenda. He doesn’t give one tiny fuck about ALG running in KY except for what tripe he can push here in this simplistic and irrelevant soundbyte that only an idiot could take seriously.
Get fucking real.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Lady Bug: Forbes, no shocker, had one today. Another rich fucker news outlet, forget which one, ran a story today on how the newly-demoralized ISIL is giving up and running away from the crack, Bush-trained Iraqi army.
If you appreciate comedy, the next two years will be a fucking goldmine.
A Farmer
Is it just me, or is Ted Cruz the definitive example of what smarmy is?
cckids
@Elizabelle:
I don’t want a line in the sand. Sand shifts & blows around all the time.
I want a line in the fucking concrete. Etched with diamond.
askew
@Elie:
Did you really? What a horse’s ass. One of the big knocks against Hillary in my book is her inability to read the electorate something the great politicians have in spades.
Another Holocene Human
@Gin & Tonic: Oh, you think we gays have forgotten so quickly where RI has been at?
Providence feels like the whole state and if it were the whole state maybe things would be different.
Violet
@A Farmer: I’m sure if you look in the dictionary next to ‘smarmy’ there is a picture of Ted Cruz.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: Eh, it doesn’t matter how deftly you answer that question, or the answer to it. Maybe you succeed in depriving Mitch of a clip, but everyone still knows what you did, and you’re a Democrat, and it’s Kentucky, and it’s a federal election.
Patrick
@FlipYrWhig:
Maybe. Maybe not. As Mr Clyburn pointed out, the race was close until she made that dumb comment. After that it went downhill.
Furthermore, as has been stated before, her answer was perfect to media’s narrative that not even Dems liked Obama and helped alienate the base in other states. I voted but that’s it.
hilts
@Mnemosyne:
“Finesse”
I don’t think that word is in Grimes’ vocabulary. I can’t stand Chris Matthews, but I agree with him that her concession speech was a pathetic, tone deaf, crock of shit.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/msnbcs-matthews-and-sharpton-bash-grimes-concession-speech-you-need-to-be-gracious
Violet
@cckids: I want an electric fence that every time Republicans touch it it electrocutes their balls.
Howard Beale IV
Well, that didn’t take long: CATO’s Michael Cannon talk about how ACA can be repealed via same trick Dems used for Judicial nominations.
Tommy
I had a few folks here savage me because I said I knew some sane Republicans Funny thing they are not elected to office in the Senate. I got no idea what is going to happen. My gut is it won’t be pretty.
Keith G
@FlipYrWhig: The quote from Clyburn that you highlighted gave his understanding that her polling numbers significantly dropped after her “two-step” attempt and accompanying breakdown. Note that, “satisfies everybody” might be a bit different than, “give everybody a level of comfort”.
Now Clyburn may be wrong, but it is his job to understand and work with this type of information.
Another Holocene Human
@the Conster: If we’re putting up actors, what about Samuel Jackson? You know he has grit because he played “coke addict #2” and “thug #3” in the Hollywood wilderness for 20 years when most people would have quit.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Corner Stone: That’s what I thought.
California. We keep the world fapping™.
Mnemosyne
@FlipYrWhig:
Obviously, hindsight is 20/20, but everyone seems to agree that her polls started to drop with her weak answer to that question.
Plus, I wonder about the Girl Factor. It’s still surprisingly tough to get a woman elected to the Senate (sorry, WaPo link).
cckids
@cintibud:
There may not be legions, but there is a certain respect given to someone who stands up & says “yes, I voted for him. I’m a Democrat & an American & he’s my president, and he’s YOUR president”. (shades of Christie, but classier) The chances of her winning were never good, but she could have had a future in politics. Now she’s that spineless chick who couldn’t pick a side.
And she STILL lost. Big.
Violet
@askew: Yeah, Hillary just isn’t a great politician from what I can tell. That stupid kerfuffle with Terry Gross on “Fresh Air” earlier in the year when she was on her book tour. Just ridiculous. A reasonable politician would be able to deal with Terry Gross’s questions on same sex marriage. Hillary wanted to avoid answering the question and a politician can’t do that on the campaign trail. Just like Grimes in KY, not answering creates a story. It’s dumb. It’s bad politicking.
FlipYrWhig
@Patrick:
So, “Allison Grimes had a bad answer to that question about voting for Obama while running in Kentucky, and I along with many others found this demoralizing in my non-Kentucky state where she was not running”? That seems kind of far-fetched. Did anyone in not-Wisconsin find Mary Burke’s handling of her political relationship to Obama galvanizing and inspiring?
Corner Stone
Yeah, her polls dropped. And so did Braley and so did Udall and so did Orman and so did Pryor and so did etc and etc.
I think we should get Burke and Crist to admonish her when they take their swearing in ceremonies.
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat: Let it go. You are refusing to look at vote returns from KY, where Grimes ran from Obama and FL where Crist embraced him.
FL had a much bigger Dem dropoff than KY. That’s just a motherfucking FACT. I love Obama, too, but maybe the progressive group that was working in KY actually was quite successful in an uphill battle, okay? Maybe KY is turning red faster than any of us would like? The future is here. Live with it.
mdblanche
@catclub: The other 20% are all busy posting on the internet.
FlipYrWhig
@Mnemosyne: I’m not putting a lot of faith in the polls that had all these close races that then swung into ~10-point victories for the Republicans. Greg Orman and Mary Burke didn’t do anything embarrassing and still got whomped at the end.
SFAW
@Another Holocene Human:
It scans better auf Deutsch, you know.
Elie
@askew:
Yes, sir, I did.
BTW, I am not saying that I would not vote for her if she is our candidate.Just that I am not liking her “way” with those of us still trying to help THIS administration. Again, she keeps doing this “tone deafness” thing…(not her but her people sometimes). I don’t know how you learn to hear better but she has got to change up. She was horribly silent during this past campaign on women’s issues and very critical of the administration on several issues — right before midterms. Yikes! Does she or her peeps think that folks won’t notice or won’t remember?
d58826
@cckids: Better to be hung for a wolf than a sheep. A lesson that the D’s still have not learned
cckids
@burnspbesq:
Rope in Oregon & Washington, take the whole left coast. You’d gain water, legal pot, assisted suicide . . . sanity would reign.
Let me dust fucking Nevada off my shoes & I’ll be there.
Edit to add: I see CONGRATULATIONS got there first.
Mike in NC
@Trollhattan: Oh, I’m quite sure we’ve not heard the last of either Scott Brown or Mitt Romney. They simply refuse to go away because they have nothing else to do.
Another Holocene Human
@beltane: Did Broward ragequit because “their” favored candidate lost the primary? How ugly if so.
Violet
@Tommy:
Those mythical “sane Republicans” weren’t elected to the Senate because they don’t exist. You can keep telling yourself they do but that’s your issue. Sane Republicans are like unicorns. Even the slightly less batshit crazy ones caucus with the truly batshit crazy ones, so what difference does it make? They all vote crazy town.
Now you’ve got a Republican representative for your district and a Republican governor, let’s see if you still get that sweet Federal and state money for those nice things you speak of so fondly. Oh, wait, your town is 97.3 percent white, so it’s highly unlikely a Republican representative will make you pay any price. In a year or so check with the non-white town down the road and see how their funding is doing.
Elie
@Violet:
I like your idea best! :-)
hilts
@Violet:
I was surprised by Hillary’s buffoonish performance in that exchange with Terry Gross.
schrodinger's cat
@Another Holocene Human: % dropoff or actual numbers? What was the turnout like? Republican voters are more motivated, because their pols may lack wisdom but don’t lack conviction. Being wishy washy is huge turn off.
fuckwit
Huh? What happened? Oh, yeah, evil won. Again.
Not a surprise. I have come to peace with the fact that evil will almost always win. When good triumphs, it’s rare, fantastic, and worth celebrating. But it’s never the norm.
Reason? Evil is highly motivated. Evil is also well-funded– hell it is SELF-funded since it is also rapaciously greedy and highly efficient at theft.
Good is.. just wanting to do the right thing, leave people alone, be kind, live and enjoy life, give and share, the real things that make life enjoyable and happy. Good tends to be non-confrontational, and politics is hella confrontational.
Good is also, due to not being obscenely wealthy, often too damn busy trying to scrape two nickels together to make a living.
Politics is just not that exciting unless you are highly motiavated to win, and good can’t keep that motivation up on a long term and large scale. Evil is always more motivated, more consistently. It’s also good at creating structural advantages for itself (c.f. Citizens United, fundamentalist church electioneering, redistricting, media consolidation, gay-bashing, sexism, racism, and other tribal animosities, etc).
Every once in a while, good people get together and, against unwinnable odds, make something wonderful happen. But it’s rare, and it usually requires things getting severely horribly bad first.
That kind of change happened most recently in 2006 and 2008. I don’t know if it’ll happen again, but I sure hope it can in 2016 and 2020. The sad thing is it’ll have to get a lot worse– like 2005-era horrible– before anything really seriously changes.
cckids
@d58826: Yes. Losing by 4 points or by 14, ya still ain’t going to Washington.
Another Holocene Human
@Trollhattan: Florida Cubans get to have their cake and eat it too. They don’t normalize relations WHILE STILL having rights to travel themselves to Cuba to see their families. Hypocrisy to the extreme.
Why is it illegal for me to travel to Cuba? Is this a police state? If I go there I know the Cuban gov’t has lots of restrictions on what I do but the real reason I can’t go is what the US will do when I try to come home.
Patrick
@FlipYrWhig:
It was not just a bad answer. She had two (2) opportunities at separate occasions with the same question. She still triangulated and messed up such an easy question.
Far-fetched? I am speaking for myself and my observations in my state. Do you know me and my observations better than myself? If so, kudos to you sir. I normally help drive folks to the polls. This time I decided not to. If the party wouldn’t even recognize their own Democratic President, then they obviously don’t need me.
And how do you know how Ms Burke would have done if she had not had Obama in Wisconsin? BTW – this is the third time Walker has beaten a Dem.
Keith G
@cckids: I am beginning to wonder if this type of basic common sense can find purchase here.
I never counted the KY seat as a win for the good guys. McConnell is just too evil to be defeated without a wooden stake the size of a Louisville Slugger and a 5 lb sledgehammer. My hope was that Grimes could make a strong case for Democratic governance – fight the good fight with all her might knowing that she would be laying important groundwork for others.
Another Holocene Human
@Mnemosyne: Dems feeding the GOP fear machine does not help Dems win.
hilts
@Mike in NC:
I think CNN would be proud to add Scott Beefcake to its roster of esteemed pundits.
Corner Stone
I guess, in the end, we should all feel pretty good about talking shit against two women who ran tough races in red states. ALG and Wendy Davis didn’t quite measure up.
Let’s see if they weigh less than a duck.
sharl
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
That image of Joe Machin seems less like John McCain – who still (AFAIK) votes with his party, even if he is simultaneously a complete rageaholic asshole to them all – and more like {{shudder}} Joe Lieberman. All he would need to make the transformation complete is another couple extra dollops of smarm and a thick layer of false piety.
Heaven forbid.
Alicia
@Violet:
Exactly. The “sane” Republicans either leave the party (Chafee in RI and Angus King in Maine) or get frustrated and leave politics altogether (Olympia Snowe). Even alleged moderates like Susan Collins and Rob Portman pretty much vote lockstep with their party.
Any Republican who doesn’t think Obama should be arrested, jailed, and drawn and quartered is considered a “moderate.”
askew
@Violet:
That’s exactly the problem with Hillary. She is so risk adverse that she gives these nothing answers that piss everyone off much like Grimes. As a presidential candidate she needs to be able to inspire voters and those types of answers just won’t do it. And if she is struggling that much during a friendly interview, she is never going to make it through the general election. The problem is that people keep pretending that Hillary has all of Bill’s political skills and she just doesn’t. She shares a last name and that is it.
cckids
@Corner Stone:
I, at least, am not talking shit about ALG. I loved her performance against Yertle in their debate in the summer, she pantsed him quite thoroughly. I’d have liked to have seen that person more later in the race.
And I’d not say a word against Wendy Davis. She did yeoman’s work in that godforsaken shitheap of a state, and didn’t whine about it.
SFAW
@hilts:
How will we be able to tell him apart from Erick Erickscum?
SFAW
@sharl:
Walmart is having a sale on just those things.
Another Holocene Human
@beltane: Young people are being destroyed economically and don’t know what to do. The youngest cohort who did vote were more Republican than the people who first voted in 2008!
I didn’t see any real outreach to the youngest people except the DREAM Act and that got deep sixed so so much for youth voter/activist enthusiasm. As for anti-SYG activism that is working but slowly, not quick enough to save this election.
If there would have been a big push on Medicaid in Florida it’s possible all those left-behind young Floridians with no healthcare would’ve voted. Maybe that climate guy should have spent his money on that instead of talking about Scott being a crook cuz everybody knew that.
schrodinger's cat
What we need is a TNN, a Tunch News Network that cuts through all the MSM bullshit with wit and snark.
mdblanche
@CONGRATULATIONS!: After last night, I’m not sure Manchin wins again the next time he’s up.
GregB
Sadly things can get pretty shitty.
I am afraid that there will be an active effort to box the President in and force a war against Iran.
The Senate will scuttle any chances of a a nuclear deal.
There will be renewed attempts to bait the Russian bear too.
Needless to say the reports of the death of the Republican Party have been greatly exaggerated.
Another Holocene Human
@hilts: She’s an incumbent in a state with a lot of olds. Like Nelson-FL, come at her at your peril. Bellows is a great person, glad she ran but … tis life.
Alicia
@cckids:
Agree 100%.
Wendy Davis fought her ass off probably knowing full well she would never win. She had a huge hill to climb and had all the wingnuts lined up against her. She came out looking like a million bucks even though she lost, Of course a lot of her potential voters were stymied by the repressive voter ID laws Texas now has.
Another Holocene Human
@SFAW: Capuano keeps losing. I have no earthly idea why, but he does.
FlipYrWhig
@Patrick:
Your commitment to political involvement has as a barometer what a candidate says in Kentucky when you live somewhere else? You sound like one weird dude. Why weren’t you enthused when other candidates in other states you don’t live in used different tactics? Why did you settle on this one as a crucial marker? Sounds kind of like you were looking to make a symbolic gesture based on arbitrary reasons. Congratulations?
I think it’s safe to say that whether you embraced Obama or rejected Obama, if you were a Democrat on the ballot most places you took a pummeling in 2014, which suggests that neither embracing nor rejecting him was a boffo political strategery.
Another Holocene Human
@Patrick: It was NOT close, she was already losing, and then the next week they tightened the likely voter screens and all the Dems went down.
Come on.
cckids
@Chat Noir:
This, THIS. Complete assclowns. I’ve never seen this with another president.Shit, they show more reverence & common courtesy to any movie star who happens their way.
When Pres. Obama leaves office, I want Jill Scott’s “Hate On Me” booming out of the helicopter as he flies away.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@mdblanche:
If he doesn’t cross the aisle before 2018, I get the feeling he’ll be sent out on his ass for being too much of a terrible commie. Long as he has that D by his name, his days will be numbered. And I’m sure the asshole knows it.
Keith G
@hilts:
Back in June (was it?) I read this opinion typed by several folks who, I guess, were echoing some of the “first responders” of internet opinion. So….I clicked the show link and I listed, fully expecting to hear Hillary stuff her wrinkly old soon-to-be-grandmother’s foot into her maw.
Only, that was not what I heard. HRC could have been a bit better in dealing with Terry Gross’ silliness on that one question, but buffoonish is not even in the ball park. In actuality, HRC came off ok in a bizarre circumstance.
Elizabelle
Catching Colbert rebroadcast. Comedy Central now, and it’s very funny. Andrew Sullivan (your fave) is the guest.
Jon Stewart has Reince Priebus as guest following. Might miss most of that one.
Elizabelle
Colbert reports Fox News has a “Brain Room”.
And it’s not the one the newscasters sit in.
Keith G
@Corner Stone: I do like your new style of trolling. Sort of whiplashy.
Another Holocene Human
@SFAW: Not sure what you’re trying to say. She built her career on screwing over fellow Dems in Florida. She’s like the poster child for the Very Silly Party.
I like how Corinne Brown votes but she is kind of tweedledum to DWS’ tweedledee in that she sided with the Republicans on their gerrymander because she wouldn’t have to do a primary or really run at all. Her signs say “Corinne delivers!” but actually she helps deliver Congress to the GOP and ensure anyone living outside her gerrymandered boundaries gets an asshole who won’t do constituent services, fuck you very much.
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat: I posted numbers. Scroll up. I’m done.
hilts
@Elizabelle:
That’s the name they use for their research dept.
SiubhanDuinne
@lamh36:
If you were to (cough) accidentally (cough) push him overboard, I’d give you a character reference.
Patrick
@Another Holocene Human:
I take it you are disagreeing with Senator Clyburn. It was his quote I referenced. Why don’t you take it up with him…
Corner Stone
@Keith G: That’s high praise coming from someone who has worked diligently to perfect the art of high concern trolling.
Patrick
@FlipYrWhig:
I stopped reading after this. Life’s too short with people that like to call people names. Have a good evening, sir…
Davis X. Machina
@Keith G: You draw your curves first. Then you plot your points. Then you make your observations.
Political journalism isn’t chem lab…
hilts
@Keith G:
Okay, maybe I should have said inarticulate instead.
I just hope Hillary decides not to run. The thought of all the old bullshit that will be dredged up if she is the Democratic nominee makes me sick to my stomach.
SiubhanDuinne
@cintibud:
Hear, hear!!
Corner Stone
@Patrick: And you’re commenting on *this* blog?
mdblanche
@Alicia: One of the worst nights of my life was Thanksgiving 2010. I spent it with a mix of Tommy’s “moderate” Republicans who said they wanted to see the President assassinated, and Glenn Beck fans who called them on it. But only because they feared riots by “those people.”
Violet
@mdblanche: No, no, not “moderate” Republicans. They’re “sane” Republicans, according to Tommy. You know, the ones calling for the President’s assassination, etc. Totally sane.
cckids
@Violet: Yeesssssss.
Keith G
@Corner Stone: Sssshhhhush.
I note the absence of a protest.
Tenar Darell
@schrodinger’s cat: I had a thought about that a few days ago. Maybe she didn’t vote for the President. Maybe she voted Republican or third party protest voted?
Hildebrand
@Alicia:
A great many of her ‘potential’ voters remained just that, they never left the house. Hildalgo County in Deep South Texas – as stalwart a Democratic county as any Democrat could want, and who went for Davis 62% (which considering McAllen is a hot-bed of white, wealthy Tea Party types makes it even more impressive) – only had 26% turnout. 80K out of 320K. Voter ID laws may have hurt, but disinterest did far more damage.
lurker dean
@fuckwit: this captures well how i’m feeling right now. i wouldn’t have expected such wisdom from a fuckwit, lol.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tenar Darell: She was an Obama delegate at the Convention in 2012. Of course she voted for him. She was avoiding saying “I voted for Obama” because, less than five minutes after she said it, the GOP would have had an ad in constant rotation on TV with her saying it. Might it have been a poor tactical decision? It appears that opinions differ. But that is all it was, a tactical decision on a small issue.
Tenar Darell
@Omnes Omnibus: Ah. Yes. OK, that was, of course, not in anything I read. Why would it be, since the media has no responsibility to provide me with context or facts, right? /sarcasm + shakes fist at clouds
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodinger’s cat:
We paws for a word from our sponsors.
VFX Lurker
@Corner Stone:
I know you’re poking burnspbesq with a stick, but I have to reply to this comment. California used to be big in film production, but its star has faded. Thanks to aggressive
bribessubsidies by Louisiana, British Columbia, Quebec and the United Kingdom, most blockbusters and TV series get made outside of California these days.Hollywood is the new Roman Empire, extracting wealth from various governments with the promise of jobs.
Jado
@schrodinger’s cat:
Hey, enjoy THAT. We people from New Jersey can tell you how wonderful it is to have a Republican governor, especially one who is regarded as “moderate” while trashing teachers and bankrupting the transportation fund while slashing taxes.
The FUN never ENDS with a Republican governor – get one today!!