Amidst all the (justified) celebration of Rosetta and Phylae today — it really is a big deal when a ten year mission ends with the first landing on a comet evah!) — there was one truly sour note. This:
That’s Matt Taylor, Rosetta project scientist. If you read the profile at (where else) The Daily Mail, you’ll get two impressions. One, that Dr. Taylor really loves his job, his science and this mission — all of which is great. But two: he and his interviewer are oblivious about what it might mean to stand in front of millions of science fans, wearing that schmatte.
Nah, this is just dudebro fun, no worries, no-harm-no-foul, why don’t you have a sense of humor stuff.
But it’s not. There’s not a lot to say that isn’t f**king obvious. This was and is a truly special occasion. Lots of people thrilled to witness human reason and ingenuity reach towards the stars have been playing really close attention. Many of them are women. Some, lots, are girls who might be thinking science could be a really fine life’s work. That shirt tells them, pretty explicitly: science ain’t no crap-free zone.
We’ve ample evidence that’s true, sadly. But damn, way to drive the message home, Matt!
I’ve had friends, women in science, contact me today, asking when this shit will ever stop. I don’t know. Not soon enough.
My son is taking his first high school physics class this year. Last night I was helping him with his homework on momentum, impulse and collisions — kind of relevant to today’s events. I don’t know if his teachers broke with the curriculum today to watch the Rosetta live feed, but now I’m almost hoping they didn’t. The girls — and the boys too, dammit — in that class deserve better.
I’ve never met Taylor. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s against discrimination in science (or anywhere else), one who would defend any woman on his team. I don’t know.
Maybe he’s just clueless stem to stern, with no idea how what he might say or do affects anyone around him. Or, in fact, he could be a sexist asshole. Still don’t know. I generally, perhaps naively, default to that “clueless” rather than “f*cked-up” explanation, until I have affirmative evidence to the contrary.
But as we’ve learned over and over again in issues of race, of gender discrimination, of same-sex rights, it’s not what you believe that matters. It’s what you do — and Taylor chose to wear this shirt in front of the largest audience he’s ever likely confront. He may or many not be a sexist guy; he did a sexist thing, one with real world implications.
Repair work is needed. The ESA/Rosetta folks should to do some, and so should Matt Taylor, however much of a goof he thought he was having.
Oh, and just in case he might accept some fashion advice, here’s Skepchik’s Dr. Rubidium with some very good natured suggestions. A possible path to improvement lies there, Dr. Taylor.
SiubhanDuinne
Thanks for fixing the typo!
Terrific rant.
pat
And I don’t even want to know what he has tatooed on his arms…
BGinCHI
Sigh. A lot of us white dudes are either minding out own business or actively helping make the world a better place. So when I see this kind of shit, minor though it is, it just drags us back into it.
Dear other white guys: get some fucking empathy. Start asking yourself how other people feel.
Shakezula
I bet working with this schmuck is a real treat, but since no one saw fit to grab him by the beard and shove him into an oxford before he bopped in front of the cameras, I suspect that the entire environment sucks.
Seriously? WTF? And now we have to listen to 20 million new MUAPUAs flap the holes beneath their noses about his free speech rights.
schrodinger's cat
Never.
TaMara (BHF)
If I had only seen the photo and hadn’t read who this was wearing it, my first thought would have been, “what a dick”
Now that I read your post, my first thought is, “what a pathetic dick and I don’t care where he landed his instrument.”
My niece is an honor math and science high school student and I wouldn’t want her working with him.
Schlemazel
I had to take a second look at the pic. I thought it was just a loud hawaiian shirt & was going to come down on his side – science needs to goof it up a bit. Damn I wish he had chosen a better shirt. Damn that pisses me off, even if he were a prototype nerd – clueless about the implications – someone should have pointed it out. sonofabitch that pisses me off. Been a bad day for me & it looks like the probe didn’t do well so the whole thing just sucks.
Cervantes
What’s on the shirt?
Hillary Rettig
Thanks for posting this; I saw the landing and was inspired, but only kinda/sorta knew there was some brouhaha with someone’s wardrobe. Having read that, I will write Nasa with a complaint. what makes this extra annoying is that my tax dollars pay this guy’s salary.
Keith P
At least it isn’t a damn Green Lantern shirt or something else from TBBT.
Omnes Omnibus
@Schlemazel:
Same here.
schrodinger's cat
When I was a grad student in physics and taking classical mechanics, the guys formed a study group, guess who they left out? I managed to get an A, nevertheless. This guy doesn’t surprise me at all.
srv
I’m sure Darwin would have been more successful if he’d just been more Politically Correct.
TaMara (BHF)
@Cervantes: Lots of blonde women dressed in only bustiers/corsets and garter belts in suggestive positions.
Something like you’d expect on a calendar in your local garage mechanics shop.
Schlemazel
@Shakezula:
he may be fine. Having worked with lot of rocket scientist (I was at Kennedy for a few years & in computers my whole life) many are socially inept but decent, they would wear something like that & then be shock that it was offensive because they didn’t understand. Ignorance, not malice. I hope that is the case here.
Lets let him know – nicely – before starting the bonfire. If he does it again then it would be hostile.
JPL
Thanks Tom! Great rant and great post.
Tom Levenson
@srv: Darwin was about as politically correct as it was possible to be within his place and time. If ever there was a leveler, it is the theory of evolution by natural selection.
And of course, by politically correct, I mean actually correct, as in right, as in coming to valid conclusions on available information. Which is of course well correlated with the views of those the right derides as politically correct in the here and now.
john b
@Hillary Rettig:
Don’t think NASA is the one to complain to here. This is an ESA project and it doesn’t appear that he works for NASA, either.
Calouste
I’ve seen a few pictures today of people involved with the Phylea landing. I’ve yet to spot a woman in one of them.
Mike E
@srv: Yeah, he developed his theory to prove wimmenz aren’t capable of sciencing. Eggzackly.
BGinCHI
@Tom Levenson: I was just going to call srv a dumbass. Your way is better.
So, srv, please explain how Tom’s post suggests the guy in question be more politically correct. But first why don’t you go ahead and define “politically correct” for us.
I can’t wait to hear your wisdom on this.
max
{glances at picture} {starts reading post} {glances back at picture} {continues reading post} {confused about the complaint by halfway through} {looks *closely* at picture} “Oh! Shit!”
I thought it was some really tasteless and loud Hawaiian print (and I couldn’t figure out quite why a loud Hawaiian print was earning the opprobrium) and didn’t process the shirt at all.
Jeez, I… … … what?! Huh? Uhhh, I swear I saw one of the ESA feeds tweeting a picture of the dude in that shirt sitting next to a young blonde woman pre-landing. Weird.
max
[‘WTF were you thinking dude? Tacky now has a new name.’]
Amir Khalid
Has this genius tweeted an “Oops, sorry” yet?
Schlemazel
“Funny” story from my time at KSC. Several of the NASA technical people I had to work with were total idiots. Many were very good but they somehow had total morons on staff too. One of the non-nerd types (nerd in this case meaning socially inept) who understood what he was doing came to work one day in a tourist T-shirt with alligators in various sexual position. At least his boss was smart enough to send him home for that.
I have a great deal of sympathy for nerds, I am one.I was in my mid-20s when I started to realize how socially inept I was (am). I have gotten a lot better. I see Leonard on the big bang theory as a sympathetic character because he knows he is inept but does not know how to fix it. He wants to be “good” but can’t trust his instincts because they suck. I get that because I lived it. I hope it is this guys problem & not that he is just an asshole.
Citizen_X
Here’s a worthy response to this chump.
Brought to you by The Committee for More B5 References In Everything.
Howard Beale IV
@Citizen_X: B5 references never get old.
scav
Expecting politeness, common courtesy, empathy or a regard for others is oppressive, a supression of all that is whilte masculinity in its core unchangabe essence! He saw an opportunity to grab attention for himself, damned be the consequences for the team, project or actual scientific event and its/their reputation. White Boy grabbed the News Cycle for himself. Success!
Schlemazel
@john b: That would be right. He does not get a dime of US money. This trip cost the same as buying 4 Airbus 320’s so I would not cry much about the tax implications in any event but it ain’t dollars, its euros
kindness
I think the shirt is tacky but not over the line sexist. He has taste I don’t have. Now should he have worn that shirt today? I wouldn’t have but I wouldn’t own that shirt so I’m not a good example.
Cervantes
@TaMara (BHF):
Thank you for explaining.
What a foolish thing for him to do, even on those days when millions are not looking.
MBunge
I can understand the idea that any kind of print shirt like that is a bad choice for a potentially historic moment, but THIS gets people upset? Are images of hot babes, real or otherwise, to be banned from the public square? Let me know how that works out for ya.
Mike
gogol's wife
@MBunge:
get a clue
Warren Terra
I also thought at a glance that it was just a garishly colorful shirt, and assumed it was whimsical flamboyance similar to that JPL guy with the dyed mohawk, who was an instant internet darling. It hadn’t occurred to me an adult educated human male would wear a shirt covered with pin-up images to any important occasion, let alone the moment of his career and on camera.
Seanly
@Calouste:
Yeah, I don’t know that European STEM workplaces are any more diverse or inclusive than their North American counterparts (who tend not to be very diverse or inclusive). Didn’t Volkswagen get in hot water sometime this year for a series of ads showing German workers & engineers with nary a female or non-white face? Yeah… their otherwise cute Superbowl ad
It took me a minute to realize what was on the shirt. A terrible choice of attire even for beers after work & the cameras go away.
NotMax
It may have been the most subdued and tasteful shirt in his entire wardrobe for all we know.
Also too, those tattoos would clash with anything.
@Hillary Rettig
What john b (#18 above) said.
JPL
Maybe he was just trying to stand out. I kinda liked the guy in the hoodie myself. Maybe Geraldo Rivera will discuss why his dress was inappropriate and hoodies are signs for gang nerds or something.
Cervantes
@MBunge:
There are worse things, sure, but this was a stupid thing to do.
And it shouldn’t take a ten-year mission traveling untold millions of miles to tell you why.
Warren Terra
@MBunge: Not banned, as such, but a REALLY bad idea. This is the greatest day of his scientific life, his chance to Represent, as it were, and to speak to every young person who might go into science. And his chosen message is that it’s cool to be a goofy enthusiastic science guy or to be a hot girl. That message sucks.
Cacti
@Warren Terra:
If it were just loud and ugly, Dr. Taylor would just look goofy.
His choice of print makes him look clueless, sexist, and goofy.
geg6
I do not want my niece, who adores science and aspires to be an engineer, to work with this guy. He may just be clueless, but that that doesn’t excuse this. If she decides to be a mechanical engineer, I don’t think she should be subjected to pinup calendars on the walls of whatever auto company she may be hired to work. She’s a true mathmatical and spacial genius. I’d hate to see her turned off that by assholes, whether clueless or deliberately misogynist.
Schlemazel
@MBunge:
are you an idiot or do you only play one on tv?
Women are not respected in scientific pursuits. Here is a great scientific presentation & this guy decided to wear a shirt that objectifies women. That should not be hard to understand
I love & wear Hawaiian shirts (I own about 3 dozen) but nothing like this. I think a shirt of that nature would have been a nifty thing today. This one just makes me sad. Wear this to the beach or bar, it’s not my taste but it’s not terrible.
kdaug
@Citizen_X: Thanks. Where can I donate?
pat
I’ll never understand these “shirtsleeve” tatoos. I’ve seen a few on men and women and they are universally hideous. Who selects a picture like that that you want to wear for the rest of your life?
Or the pins in the nose. Or in the tongue or lip. I could never bring myself to have my ears pierced because it is forever…..
/old lady rant
Tom Levenson
@MBunge: @Schlemazel: Here’s how you do astronomy and Hawaiian shirts. I’ve never seen Jerry in anything but such a shirt (and I’ve put him on camera myself). Difference is: his are classy, gorgeous shirts.
It’s not the informality, in other words. It’s the actual, specific images and what they say.
JPL
@pat: haha.. Sounds like me. I don’t have pierced ears and when the sons were discussing it, I got a hammer and a nail and said okay.
geg6
@MBunge:
Are you for real? So a message that his field is a hostile workplace is no big deal for all the science nerd little girls who watched? I’ll be you think it’s all about journalistic ethics.
Hal
I don’t disagree with the tastelessness of the shirt and I think it was idiotic to wear it at all, let alone to this event. It reminds me of guys who have those metal testicles hanging from their trucks. But I also don’t think he deserves to be cast into the pit of hell fire just yet. I really don’t know this guy from a hole in the wall, so maybe he had a lapse in judgement?
Schlemazel
@Tom Levenson: THAT IS A FUGGLY SHIRT!!!
That said, this guy chose poorly & nobody pointed it out to him. fail on the big stage. Don’t put me in the camp defending his choice. A loud shirt would have been a fun thing today. This is “lout” not loud.
maybe that is why the probe bounce & now they can’t find it.
Warren Terra
@Hal: No-one is saying h should be cast into the pits of hell. We’re saying he was a jerk, and he could have been a hero. Next week, we’ll have forgotten him, except some vague dislike; the equally flamboyant but less-an-a-hole JPL mohawk guy, of Mars lander fame, we still remember fondly and hold up as a role model. This guy lost big opportunities for himself and for the object of his enthusiasm. That’s all the punishment he’ll get – but it’s actually pretty huge.
TaMara (BHF)
@MBunge: I have a hot fireman calendar with very sexy fireman posing for my viewing pleasure. I also own sexy lingerie. Neither of these things are appropriate for the workplace.
That is the point.
Schlemazel
@Hal:
He wears loud shirts to events. Thats one more reason I do not think he understood the message he was sending. He was wrong but I assume no ill intent at this point.
Ignorance is one thing, stupidity another. Ignorance can be cured
TaMara (BHF)
@Warren Terra: He’s no Adam Steltzner or Bobak Ferdowsi, that’s for sure.
Schlemazel
My association with hawaiian shirts started at Kennedy Space Center. I worked with an engineer who wore no other kind of shirt at work. He told me he took the job because he could wear them every day. Seemed like as good a reason as any job I ever had. I started collecting them.
On a more contemporary note – I have been working IT security for USPS for the last couple of years. Anyone want to guess how much fun I have been having. I may switch to wearing loud shirts to work now.
aimai
@kindness: Try imagining that your female boss at an important job had herself photographed in a hawaiian shirt covered with guys being held, in bondage theme, in sexual positions? Then get back to me on how innocent the shirt is when the guy is a) working in a theoretically mixed gender environment and b) is having his picture go out to girls and women in science all over the world. Yeah, right.
skerry
@Schlemazel: And how do you know nobody pointed it out to him? Maybe he is just a giant, flaming sexist asshole who could give a shit what image he put forth.
You are assuming facts not in evidence.
Cacti
@aimai:
Regardless of the doctor’s intentions, the message he sends to girls aspiring to high level STEM careers is: If you want to get to the top, be prepared to put up with this.
JPL
@Schlemazel: Not fun at all I suppose.
Warren Terra
It’s worth pointing out he is wearing a black T-shirt underneath. He could have literally ripped the sexualized-poses shirt off with no replacement to hand and been perfectly decently dressed.
Howard Beale IV
@Schlemazel:
Depends on which tier/layer in IT security you’ve been working in. I don’t know whether to feel sympathetic or give you a nutshot. Maybe one of each.
Another Holocene Human
@TaMara (BHF): The mechanics I work with have more class than that.
The most out-there item posted in the building is some of those “American Turd Association” and “Poop Happens” stickers affixed to one guy’s tool cabinet. Which doesn’t oppress anybody (except maybe prudes with anal issues and no sense of humor, I suppose).
There are still cheesecake calendar giveaways but they have a reputation of being somewhat suspect, as in, what’s wrong with the product that they’re trying to sell it this way?
beltane
That is one fugly shirt.
I wonder if a guy wearing a homosexual bondage-themed shirt would be getting a pass.
Cervantes
@Warren Terra:
Maybe he covered up the black shirt because there’s something even worse on it.
Origami Isopod
Oh, dear, are we still playing the “Maybe the poor dear is just *~awkward~*!” card?
Amir Khalid
For my part, I have always liked solid-colour shirts. I don’t even like patterns or stripes. The only woman whose likeness adorns a garment of mine is Dana Scully.
That shirt might look cool to a 14-year-old, but his parents wouldn’t let him wear it. And anyone older than that should have better taste. Dr Taylor should have worn the shirt of his favourite English Premier League club — which for a Londoner might be the Gunners or Spurs.
Villago Delenda Est
@Schlemazel:
This right here is, I think, one of the major problems with a lot of people. They do not think things through. You see this in gaming all the time, where the players outthink the designers in ways to get around or subvert the rules that are established.
IT glibertarians excel at not thinking things through. Ever. In addition to not knowing any history.
Another Holocene Human
My experience with tech guys is that while I have plenty of wonderful friends who are in tech there is a lot more open misogyny and racist stuff couched as libertarianism than in other fields. Probably because it is heavy with white males with no social skills who are making a lot of money relative to skill level and the value they provide and who overall get away with a lot of shit at work which feeds their raging sense of entitlement. Tech has had layoffs and downsizing and accountability through trouble ticket systems and such but they’re still mostly insulated from what’s happened to the rest of the American economy and of course they all believe it’s because their personal shit doesn’t stink. Also, many of them straight up hate their jobs so they think everyone who works in other fields not bringing down the bucks is a loser and wants to be poor.
It doesn’t help that if you spend time of tech-related websites you’re fed this crapola from tech industry leaders who think their industry is the fucking end all and be all and like those gorfingians or however it’s spelled from Hitchhiker’s Guide don’t really know what all those service and blue collar professions are doing, really, tech will make it all obsolete, right?
I know this guy is in science but he’s a direct gov’t hire in science so most of the same kinds of conditions apply except that usually there’s more political correctness, though obviously not in his work group. Tend to be heavy on the older white males because younger people get hired on contracts and then dropped when the political wind blows the other way. I have a very bright friend who is an Asian-American female. She got hired for a NASA project from GWB admin and dropped on her ass when it got killed.
Cluttered Mind
Hey Tom, I’m curious: Do you know my father? Rick Fienberg, of the AAS? Small world, if so.
ETA: Ha, and with your MIT department of comparative media studies connections, you may have crossed paths with my mother too…
Heliopause
I might take this critique more seriously if Balloon Juice wasn’t funded by an endless series of images of busty single Chinese women, busty models advertising tee-shirts, bulimic models advertising blue jeans… And that’s just in the last 48 hours.
Not to mention the many ads featuring female models as professionals, but always 30-ish, slim, and very attractive.
LanceThruster
Look at the tats. My guess the shirt is a depiction of the skin ink beneath (j/k). I think you should wear what you want and everyone else be damned (and that’s from someone not exactly a fan of the shirt but only because the T&A is a little too ‘busy’).
beltane
A co-worker of mine back in the ’90s came to work wearing a tie like that. “Work” was the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals and the tie didn’t even make it to lunch time. The co-worker in question was an older Puerto Rican man who sincerely did not understand what the big deal was about because he did not consider the women he worked with, including his boss, to be in the same category of human as pron ladies.
Another Holocene Human
@Origami Isopod: High functioning autism–the alleged reason for and go-to excuse for upper middle class household-raised white straight male misogyny!
Another Holocene Human
@beltane: I had a severe attack of Schadenfreude when some embarrassed Republican welfare cheat libertarian friends of mine moved to bumfuck Florida for a gov’t lawyer job and hubby quickly got into trouble with his GOPer “jokes” because the women and POC and women of color he told them to complained to boss and for a while his job was hanging by a thread.
Not so full of the big white/Dutch/rich boy supremacy talk now are we, big boy?
John Revolta
I’m betting that if you saw this guy shirtless, you’d beg him to put that shirt back on.
Cluttered Mind
@Another Holocene Human: Please don’t be a bigot. I have high functioning autism and was raised upper middle class, and I’m a white male. People with high functioning autism aren’t the problem. You explain why it’s a big mistake to do something like that to someone with high functioning autism once, and if you’ve explained it well enough then they’ll never do it again. Really hate how the media is portraying autism these days. Big Bang Theory is a serious pet peeve for me.
mattH
Thanks for the bit about Darwin, Tom. It’s always good to set the record straight when it comes to him. He’d be a raging liberal today I’d bet.
As for Papadakis, sad that he thought this was a good idea. It’s obviously his idea of celebratory attire. I don’t think I’d be an ass about his choice, but if I was his boss I think we’d have a slight discussion after this. Really is too bad no one caught it first.
Another Holocene Human
@LanceThruster: When you have any sort of authority or are put in front of the public, your clothing and appearance send signals.
A lot of people are complaining that the signal being sent here is that science is not for girls, stay away. And as parents of daughters who are into science, they are angry.
This guy obviously wears whatever the fuck he wants to work on a daily basis. It never occurred to him that he might need to display a different image for international coverage.
I am autistic but even I know when you do a press conference or otherwise represent more than just yourself you need to think long and hard about what you’re wearing and what that means.
(I say this as someone who doesn’t give a fuck about dye jobs, piercings, and tats, like most people about my age, a little older than me, and younger.)
PhoenixRising
@Heliopause: …you don’t see a difference between the ads that support this site (which reflect your browsing habits, FYI; I have no idea what you’re talking about) and the choice of what one entitled male scientist wore knowing that he would be the center of a media storm?
Because both have objectifying images of women on them?
Okay. Go slam your hand in a drawer instead of reading this thread; that way you’ll only be hurting yourself and there is clearly no way you’re going to learn anything.
Goblue72
@kindness: I don’t know about the EU, but that shirt could easily be considered in the U.S. as creating a hostile work environment. For the same reason pin-up calendars in the locker room at a workplace are verboten.
Don’t these schmoes attend sexual harassment trainings like the rest of us?
Origami Isopod
@Another Holocene Human: @Cluttered Mind: AHH is being sarcastic. There are many, many people on the internet who reach for autism and social awkwardness to “explain” why dudes in high tech, fandom, etc. think it’s okay to grope women at conventions or JAQ off about “evolutionary psychology.”
Cluttered Mind
@Another Holocene Human: The only way for it to never have occurred to him that what he’s wearing is sending a bad message would be for it to never have been a problem in the past. That speaks to a more systemic problem in STEM fields than to any specific deficiency in this one individual. Who here thinks he’d wear something like that if there were even one woman at a high level in his organization that he had to interact with regularly?
constitutional mistermix
@Heliopause:
Those ads are determined by your browsing history, not by us.
Right now my page is covered by ads for food and luggage. Guess what I was searching for recently?
Cluttered Mind
@Origami Isopod: After many years of practice I can usually detect sarcasm in person. Text is still difficult for me when dealing with people I don’t really know. Please accept my apologies, AHH!
danimal
There are very well-dressed white-collar criminals who deserve the scrutiny this dude is getting. They just got a two-year reprieve from oversight as they pillage our communities and nation.
They are doing a helluva lot more damage to my daughter’s future than this clueless dude ever will.
Another Holocene Human
@Cluttered Mind: You misunderstand me. I too have high functioning autism. Contrary to what some believe, I’m perfectly capable of experiencing shame. You’re absolutely right about only being told once. That’s the whole problem. This is a grown-ass man. If he even thought twice about what he was wearing he decided he just didn’t care.
I was being sarcastic because autism is the go-to excuse for misogynistic attitudes and comments and behavior. It’s ridiculous. Stop blaming autism. You are just a jerk and want to keep acting like a jerk and not be criticized for it. Most actually autistic people badly want approval and will strongly avoid acting like a big fat jerk if they can help it.
Also, people confuse symptoms with autism, for example someone raised in a very sheltered environment with few playmates their age will display behaviors that are quite similar to autistic children whose autism wasn’t treated or was ineffectually treated despite being surrounded by peers throughout their childhood. Because of the autism–which is a learning disability–the autistic child fails to pick up on cues and learning experiences from peers that neurotypical children benefit from. They also reaction “the wrong way” to typical interactions with others including parents and caregivers (due to issues like sensory abnormalities which make otherwise pleasurable touch very painful).
I can’t watch TBBT. I fucking hate that show.
Goblue72
@LanceThruster: at least in this country, sexual harassment law disagrees with you. The workplace is not your home and it’s not the public square.
Amir Khalid
@Goblue72:
I think employers in the EU are at least as strict about policing sexually harassing behaviour at work (including inappropriate attire) as those in the US. Maybe even more so; as someone here pointed out yesterday, Europeans are generally better socialised than Americans.
ruemara
Does he not know anyone who likes him enough to say, “Hey, man, not that shirt; not today. Here’s a pullover.”
Cluttered Mind
@Another Holocene Human: Seriously misunderstood you, yes. I fully agree with everything you just wrote.
Another Holocene Human
@Cluttered Mind: No sweat. Probably should have sarc tagged it.
MomSense
@Schlemazel:
I had the same experience. I thought it was just a loud print at first. This is also a good reminder that I really need to schedule an eye exam.
@schrodinger’s cat:
The thing that gives me hope is seeing my sons, who are young men now, comport themselves with such respect for women. I used to sort of joke that raising respectful, kind, thoughtful males was a public service but I actually think it is.
different-church-lady
He appears to be tattooed from stem to stern — those things usually go together.
Another Holocene Human
@Amir Khalid: Interesting factoid about Europeans–different attitude towards touch. For example they compared how often toddlers are touched in France and in the US. In the US we’ve seen children booted out of preschool for hugging other kids. Sure, hugs can be aggressive and boundaries are important, but there’s a point where you cause psychological harm due to touch deprivation. The latter is associated with increased aggression.
Apparently French people love on their kids like crazy and it results in gentler, more polite adults. I must tell you on my last visit a few years ago French people were unfailingly polite and helpful, and unlike during my 1990s visit I didn’t get any ‘tude about English-speaking. Maybe because I did make (very pathetic) attempts to speak French? Or they’re just more chillaxed about it now.
Cluttered Mind
@Another Holocene Human: This whole topic just kind of hits close to home for me, I suppose. As I said upthread, my father is a well known figure in the astronomy/space exploration world, and it really bothers me (and him) to see this sort of thing going on. It’s like these people never have to interact with women professionally, ever. Many of them don’t.
Amir Khalid
@constitutional mistermix:
You know, I’m still unhappy that I never got to see the toenail fungus ad that all the other BJ commenters were complaining about.
Loviatar
@srv:
Whenever I see the term Politically Correct I know the person using it is a bigot. They are offended by someone they consider beneath them actually complaining about being derided and attacked. Now they have a term to use to push back that is a little more sophisticated than cursing that person out, but no matter how much they try to pretty it up they’re still a low class bigot.
Think about it, you’re offended because others have pointed out that having scantily clad women on his shirt at this time derides women and would make them feel uncomfortable, tell me, why are you offended? Why are you and others like you (MBunge) so small minded that you can’t see this could be hurtful or is it that you do see but you consider the people being insulted beneath you so you don’t care.
Bigot = sees you as human, but beneath them
Racist = doesn’t see you as human
As I said a bigot.
Another Holocene Human
@Hal: Hey now, truck nuts are funny.
T&A shirts are only funny in a workplace setting in a situation comedy. And not really belly laugh funny either because sit-coms forgot how to be funny funny.
You know what’s not funny (unlike truck nuts)? People who are emotionally invested in their pet dog’s sexuality and refuse to have the dog fixed, resulting in all the inevitable consequences. But Fido would have an emotional crisis if he weren’t intact, yadda yadda.
chopper
@different-church-lady:
as a heavily-tattooed gentleman with many such male and female friends who are wonderful, thoughtful people, let me be the first to tell you to just stop.
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
This comes off the heels of TIME doing a poll, regarding what word deserves to be banned for 2015 And the current runaway leader, joining auspicious selections such as OMG, YOLO, and twerk is….
Feminist.
And apparently 4chan is driving a shitload of traffic onto this poll in order to ensure ‘feminist’ wins. Mind the reasoning behind ‘feminist’ even being on this list is just….guh.
chopper
@ruemara:
I would imagine someone told him that. I doubt he cared very much.
What a schmuck.
Citizen_X
@constitutional mistermix:
Really? One of my personalities must be buying an awful lot of guns, then.
beltane
@Another Holocene Human: Conversely, it appears that Americans really don not know how to behave in public any more. Even more than rudeness, there is a widespread obliviousness towards one’s environment that is just weird.
Goblue72
@Kryptik, A Man Without A Country: that is just awful
ruemara
@Citizen_X: browsing history is a factor, as is keywords on the page that you are reading. Ergo, whenever we talk about gun violence, we get a lot of gun ads.
Omnes Omnibus
@Amir Khalid:
That person has obviously never witnessed the behavior of men on public transportation in Naples or Bucharest.
Origami Isopod
@danimal: Hellooooooo, false binary!
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
Or the sidewalks in Florence that have iron railings on the outside. Men would sit on the railings and grab you as you walked by.
Karen in GA
@chopper: Thank you. (Six tattoos here.)
JPL
@Loviatar: I definitely agree. When someone uses that term, I ask how do you feel about common decency.
Origami Isopod
@chopper: Agreed. I don’t have ink but plenty of my friends do.
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: I, by no means, meant to limit it to my two examples. I am sure that one could get some interesting video for one of those “Two Hours as a Woman in _____” in a large number of European cities.
Origami Isopod
@Cluttered Mind:
/raises hand
Just one woman in an organization with a high tolerance for sexist crap won’t change much. The dude seems pretty high-level himself, anyway.
Betty Cracker
@constitutional mistermix: Micro-targeting: How does it work?
SRW1
@constitutional mistermix:
Did some browsing for a new camera today and boy does that show.
BillinGlendaleCA
@pat: You do know that piercings heal up.(Pierced nose, eyebrow and tongue here)
@Karen in GA: I’ll admit not being a fan of the sleeves, but I have 3 tats.
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
I traveled alone all through Europe. The worst was in a train station in Marseilles in the middle of the night. Just me and a lot of French Foreign Legionnaires. I felt like a meal.
WereBear
He. Is. An. Engineer.
At heart.
Bill Arnold
@Another Holocene Human:
My jaw dropped when hearing about Neuticles.
beltane
@MomSense: Ugh, it could have been worse: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marocchinate
MomSense
@beltane:
I had a ballet teacher who had some horror stories about what the Soviet soldiers did to women in Germany at the end of WWII.
Michael G
Let me paraphrase some of the above responses.
1) Hey women check out this shirt that is offensive to women.
2) Here’s a sexist European. Aren’t Americans the worst?
3) The real crime is how *ugly* that shirt is.
4) I judge people who have tattoos because I think they are superficial.
As to the issue at hand, I think it was a dumb move to wear the shirt to work and on TV, but I don’t think the guy is unredeemably evil.
beltane
@MomSense: The lack of experience with such things goes a long way towards explaining why Americans tend to glorify war more than most other people. We haven’t lived the nightmare.
Origami Isopod
@Michael G:
Good thing nobody said that, then.
JPL
@Michael G: I actually mentioned the guy in the hoodie but the list appears to be correct.
eemom
Amazing that anyone even wants to debate the screaming inappropriate assholery of that shirt. (And I too thought it was just a loud shirt at first glance. But it’s not.)
That maybe the guy really ISN’T a woman-demeaning asshole IRL I guess is conceivable…..can anyone pull him out from behind a movie poster like in Annie Hall?
WhyKnot241
In which Tom jumps the shark and makes his commentary irrelevant. It. Is Just. A. Shirt.
Pity it’s not a Rubens Tom, then I suppose maybe (maybe) it would pass your prurience test. Or allegory test. Or PC test. Jeebus it’s just a shirt. Get a grip dude.
SiubhanDuinne
@pat:
@JPL:
I don’t have pierced ears either. In my case, it’s because I have a needle phobia. It’s all I can do to bring myself to have blood drawn. I can’t imagine having any part of my body pierced for any reason other than medical necessity.
JPL
Do we know if Philae is still on the comet?
raven
Damn, we watched the last Olive Kitterege and this thread is still going???
Schlemazel
@Villago Delenda Est:
Its a brain thing. I am sympathetic because I have some of it myself. I am much better with things than with people. Its just the way my brain works. I didn’t develop empathy until later in life & it is painful now to look back.
If you want an extreme, comic example see Sheldon on Big BAng Theory. He does not understand he is being a giant ass, it just does not occur to him because his brain does not register that sort of thing.
NotMax
@Cervantes
T-shirt? Or wifebeater?
Just semi-evilly speculatin’.
Schlemazel
@Howard Beale IV:
Trust me, I have been screaming “FIRE” for a long time now but the business always had the final say & they always have an excuse why its just not possible to be THAT secure right now.
chopper
@WereBear:
yeesh. so i guess being both heavily tattooed and an engineer i’m fighting an uphill battle here.
i mean, there’s certainly the well-worn archetype of the clueless engineer and i’ve met them before, but the vast, vast majority of dudes i went to school with and worked with have all been pretty normal workaday guys with the same sort of social issues as anybody else. i think a lot of people have these images of people from the days of old.
Schlemazel
@skerry:
I always assume the best of people until they prove otherwise. Sure, it costs me from time to time but I’d rather believe most people are decent good people because I am suicidal enough without adding the assumption that most people are assholes & we all deserve to die. Please do not spoil that for me.
WhyKnot241
Maybe it is revealing about Tom that for all the possible angles that he could have posted about with regard to a truly groundbreaking event in astrophysics – that he chose to post about someone’s fashion choice. Seems a trivial choice.
NotMax
@JPL
Haven’t checked, but as one of its first tasks was to shoot a harpoon into the surface after landing in order to anchor itself (extremely low gravity and all that), would presume so.
Adding to the technical wizardry of this mission, due to the time lag in direct communication, this complex landing maneuver was pre-programmed.
chopper
@WhyKnot241:
that would hold a bit more water if this were his only post on the subject of the rosetta mission.
Shakezula
@Schlemazel: Cool story, but I know scientists too. “He (and everyone he works with) just didn’t know any better because he’s a big old science dork” is Total Bullshit.
Schlemazel
@Shakezula:
thats not my experience, sorry about yours.
Gin & Tonic
@Shakezula: Exactly. He picked that shirt for this day specifically to make a point.
Corey
— Dr. Matt Taylor
Ew. Clueless? Perhaps. Sexist? Definitely.
sparrow
@Cacti: The shirt is fuggly and wearing it in front of a huge audience makes me suspect he’s a freaking MRA or something. But as a woman in science, if the only pressure we faced were ugly shirts, I’d be ECSTATIC. Believe me, women are tough. We take way worse all the time.
aimai
@Michael G: So very dumb. No one said it was “irrediemably evil” but people have rightly pointed out that it was extremely inappropriate and insulting to women in general and women in science and that it is inexcusable in a highly positioned scientist in a high profile moment. And you know what? That asshole lives in the very same world that the rest of us do and he should have known it and he shouldn’t have worn the fucking shirt.
Keith G
Zzzzzzz.
Mandalay
@Shakezula:
Dead right, and for anyone still giving him the benefit of the doubt, the start of this YouTube clip should add clarity. While wearing that shirt he carefully compares the Rosetta project to a woman, with a hint of a smirk on his face:
So while it can still be argued that his shirt is irrelevant in the scheme of things, the notion that he is just a clueless nerd over what he did is obviously false – he knew exactly what he was doing.
aimai
@Schlemazel: I know a shitload of scientists. Your experience is not the common one. Men aren’t really incredibly stupid, you know. When they do shit they pretty much always mean it. Really they do.
MomSense
@raven:
One of the fun things about Olive Kitteridge and living in Maine is all the speculation about which real life people the characters are based on.
SRW1
@WhyKnot241:
You’re aware that anytime you say something about anything, you also tend to say something about yourself? You just did.
aimai
@Schlemazel: But this isn’t “costing you” anything. Women are pointing out something that is important to them–and its not costing this asshole anything either–but you are insisting that somehow its 1) all about you and your peace of mind and 2) that its somehow supremely ungenerous and even dangerous of women to point this crap out. You don’t get to give someone else the “benefit of the doubt” when the cost is all to a third party (women in science). If you want to withdraw from a discussion because its too scary or whatever go right ahead. But everyone else is not required to let this crap pass because you find it so messy or disturbing or you prefer to pretend that people don’t mean the obvious implications of what they do.
danimal
@Origami Isopod: Perhaps I wasn’t clear. The guy is a unfashionable fool and sends the wrong message to girls, boys, men and women. But there are other issues that are 100 times more important than this one. IOW, roll your eyes, mutter about him being a sexist doofus and keep focus on important issues.
EthylEster
@pat wrote:
Ok. I’m late to the thread but here is my question. Why do people get so heavily inked? Please educate this old person!
And THEN explain why any guy would wear his pants so his butt crack shows.
And THEN explain why some gay men lisp.
I’d like to die understanding these behaviors.
Goblue72
@aimai: thank you
Kryptik, A Man Without A Country
@danimal:
We can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time, contrary to what the media wants to convince us of. Just because shit like this isn’t high priority doesn’t mean it should be ignored, especially at a time where feminism and women’s rights is being treated like the new ‘reverse racism’, tarred as the REAL bigotry in America to the point of people racing to disavow such things publicly lest they be treated as….gasp….’politically correct’, or ’empathetic’ or whatever bullshit thing that should be treated as a basic human function is being treated as a flat vice instead.
chopper
@EthylEster:
because we like it.
Keith G
@EthylEster:
I would bet that it is for the very same reasons why non-gay folk lisp.
Omnes Omnibus
@danimal: So, are you saying that every waking moment that we are not working to solve problems in the order that you rank them is a waste?
Morzer
Well, I wouldn’t wear that shirt myself, because it is tacky and says that the wearer needs to work on his self-awareness and social skills. Admittedly, I find plaid a bit too daring for my rather reserved self. Solid colors for me. I do wonder what the people filming the event were doing though. Surely one of them had enough sense to know that the Dr Taylor’s shirt was A BAD IDEA? What happened to the producer or whoever was running the show?
Origami Isopod
@danimal: Aw, thanks for mansplaining to me what’s ~important! My sad li’l gurly-brainz needed a big smart man to tell me!
Keith G
@Morzer:
You are assuming that they [BBC] and their audience share the views and tastes expressed herein. Is there any evidence of this?
dance around in your bones
Ok, without reading any of the comments, I have to say that living in SoCal that guy’s shirt is standard wear here. He probably had board shorts on, too.
What, you wanted a tuxedo?
EthylEster
@chopper wrote:
So can you explain what made you decide to become a heavily-tattooed gentleman?
eemom
Here’s another amazing: that so many otherwise not usually brain dead men amongst this crowd think this is about “fashion” or “tastes.”
scav
@Keith G: It’s not the BBC’s (or any other news crew’s) job to vet the appearence of those they are filming, this responsibility would be on ESA as far as I can tell — it is their reputation, tacit working environment and sense of priories which is on display.
dance around in your bones
Ok, looked closer – def not apropos.
Keith G
@scav:
Exactly. Different hemispheres sometimes contain different priorities.
Morzer
@Keith G:
Is there any evidence of the contrary? If you make a program for public consumption, you are responsible for ensuring that it meets various standards of appropriateness and legality. I don’t think it’s a terrible leap from that to assume that the people in charge could have spoken to Dr Taylor and advised him that wearing the shirt would send the wrong message. Maybe they did – and he ignored them. My point is that making a program like this isn’t just a matter of the guy showing up and magic happening. There is a process and people in charge of it. Those people bear some of the responsibility for Taylor’s folly.
EthylEster
@chopper:
But it hurts!
And it’s something you have to pretty much live with forever.
(And can be dangerous.)
Are you saying that you like the way you look with tats better than without tats?
Is this completely an aesthetic matter?
EthylEster
@Keith G wrote:
Possible…but I have never know a lesbian who lisped.
Yet I have and have had several gay friends who lisp.
I ask them about it and they (all to a man) avoided the question. So I decided to go the “on the internet somebody will always answer” route.
So what’s your take on the butt crack display?
Morzer
The Daily Mail rather predictably says:
No, I am not linking to the Daily Mail. I am sure you can figure out why.
Goblue72
@EthylEster: Why do you even fricking care?
sparrow
@EthylEster: Tribal identity. Just as it has been for thousands of years, strangely enough!
Goblue72
@EthylEster: Just stop. Please. You need to stop digging that hole you are in and put the shovel down.
Omnes Omnibus
@EthylEster: Dear god. Please follow Goblue72’s advice.
Gin & Tonic
@EthylEster: So what’s your take on the butt crack display?
I bet they do it precisely to annoy *you*, out of all 319 million people in the US.
Morzer
@Gin & Tonic:
Ain’t no ifs, ands or butts abutt it.
Keith G
@EthylEster: Ok, because I am bored….
In men, the cleft between the two gluteus maximus is often exposed when excessive abdominal fat pushes trousers (etc) down below the natural waist line. Since women accumulate fat differently and often wear….you get the picture.
I bet once upon a time the the lisp as a gay identifier originated more as a coincidence, in that lisps (and other impediments) were seen as a sign of weakness and imperfection first before the association with (so-called at the time) deviant behavior.
During the time of the liberation movement of the 70s, some guys would affect such speech either as camp or to rattle the chains, as it were.
Mike E
Actually, Darwin was pretty close to PC when he sat on The Origin of Species for as long as he could, knowing the world as it was could not accept it…his devout wife certainly didn’t, and expected to be in heaven without him because of such unpardonable heresy.
In the end, Darwin was a real badass for sticking to his conclusions come hell or high water.
smedley the uncertain
Really??? This is a humongous astronomical event and all you’ve got is a crotchfull of knicker knots over a shirt??? Get a grip man. This is one spectacular event and to get all PC over the attire of one of the scientists who made it happen is fucking absurd. Ring me up when you contribute to a similar monumental event…Black tie/cummerbund…
Omnes Omnibus
@smedley the uncertain: It’s not the only post on the comet landing that has been front-paged today.
Morzer
@smedley the uncertain:
Cumberbund, dear child, cumberbund. As in Cumberbatch, but with less batch and more bund.
smedley the uncertain
@scav: ESA’s reputation is secure!! The appearance/shirt worn by of one of the scientists that made it happen is irrelevant! PC does not make science. Recognize the accomplishment of the scientist not your idea of how to dress!
smedley the uncertain
@Morzer: Really? My spell checker led me astray oh learned one…
Morzer
@smedley the uncertain:
Just as your punctuation and logic checkers betrayed you, eh? What an unlucky day you do appear to be having!
smedley the uncertain
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks. i get to them as I can. Generally the later ones that still might be alive.
dance around in your bones
RE: The Tats.
This is my experience and has been my advice to any and all contemplating a tattoo. I got one on my butt cheek (a rainbow bird with long tails – like a swallow?) by the great Ed Hardy (before he was great) in San Francisco back in the 70’s.
I always told anyone thinking about a tattoo to get it in a place where you won’t see it every day because it will get old looking at it every day, plus when you are 60-70-80 you just look silly, Saggy tats.
Just my opinion, flame away!
Jack the Second
I do not know him, so I don’t know what’s going on in his head. I’m having a hard time imagining a backstory that would justify wearing that shirt in that context. Maybe it’s the last shirt his senile grandmother bought him for Christmas, and has a lot of sentimental value?
For my wild speculation, I’m getting a strong hipster vibe from that picture, so I’m betting on ironic sexism.
scav
@smedley the uncertain: Poor opressed dear. trying so very hard are we?
Gin & Tonic
@smedley the uncertain: Please. It’s not as if he put on a shirt with a grease stain down the front because he was too rushed or too preoccupied to notice. He has more than two shirts to choose from, and I’ll bet my next paycheck that he picked *this* shirt, knowing he’d be on TV in front of a billion people, to make a statement. This isn’t walking out of the house with non-matching shoes because you’re busy.
smedley the uncertain
@Morzer: sorry, grammar nazis contribute little to the discussion. Your point on the shirt vs academic credentials is…. oh yeah forgot ????
smedley the uncertain
@Gin & Tonic: Agree. But to diminish his contributions because of his shirt choice to make a PC statement is really petty.
Heliopause
@constitutional mistermix:
Wrong, moral coward. We’ve had this discussion before. Absolute, 100% guarantee that there is nothing in my browsing history suggesting any of those things, except in the most tangential ways.
Even if it were the case, as you say, what would your moral culpability be? If someone had rape porn or death threats or some such in their browsing history and your advertisers accommodated those tastes you would bear no moral culpability?
Christ, what a laughable little moral coward you are.
Your advertisers are serving up flagrant sexism to your patrons. What are you going to do about it? Anything? Or keep blaming the victim?
smedley the uncertain
@scav: Oppressed? Hardly darling. Life is too good. Oh, and what was your contribution to the debate beyond a pissy response?
eemom
@smedley the uncertain:
You are a fucking moron.
beergoggles
Damn, I wish I had a job where I could wear shirts with Tom of Finland models plastered all over it.
scav
@smedley the uncertain: Thesis smart isn’t a get out of being called a sartorical and professional poor-judgement idiot card (and that’s a charitable interpretation of his choice). Attempting to play the PhD’s deserve nothing but a referential hush gambit for all behaviors is all-kinds of nonesense correctness.
your contribution seems to be a strong case of self love and regard. Mine in context was that it was ESA’s, not the BBC’s, to suggest that might not be the best judged attire for an international audience. But you seem more interested in unfettered PHD toddler expression.
Gin & Tonic
@smedley the uncertain: Nobody was diminishing his contributions. The entire argument is about whether *he* is diminishing the contributions of the female members of his team, or diminishing the desire of young women and girls to enter a field of study which holds insensitive clods like him up as role models. I suspect you know that.
Steve from Antioch
@Heliopause:
Sounds like you might want to sit down and have a talk with your wife/husband/teenager.
the Conster
@smedley the uncertain:
The accomplishment was amazing, but he had one job when the spotlight was on – to represent. He chose his attire to do so…. poorly.
Morzer
@smedley the uncertain:
Read the thread, little self-appointed protector of white male privilege. You might even learn something.
As for your excuses for your own illiterate laziness, they deserve no response except contemptuous laughter and public mockery.
redshirt
Bet he got laid that night.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: And this matters why?
dance around in your bones
Y’all stop beating up on smedly the uncertain – it’s his opinion, we’re all entitled to that,
Me, I am watching ‘ A Bit of Fry and Laurie’ to get some laughs. It’s been a rough week.
Omnes Omnibus
@dance around in your bones: smedley entered the room throwing punches. He should be able to take some counterpunching.
Sorry you are having a bad week.
NotMax
@EthylEster
Can explain its origin, which was in prisons, where it was a badge which guards could not confiscate signaling (how to put this delicately?) availability as a recipient for certain hormonal activity.
Its spread outside the walls as a sort of in your face prison chic is more puzzling, but c’est la vie.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Ah, cuz that’s what literally everything is about?
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: Let’s just say, then, that some approaches are better than others.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: No doubt about that. But my point stands, and from an evolutionary perspective, that’s all that matters (in the realm of Life). Getting laid and having babies.
dance around in your bones
@Omnes Omnibus: Fuck it.It is what it is.
As raven says, FIDO.
Been listening to Townes Van Zandt all day and now am on ‘A Bit of Fry and Laurie’ just for the laughter. Nobody can do the English language like the English.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: Well, some of us try to rise about the merely base and animal.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: As should we all. I’ve been reading a lot lately about the evolutionary precedents of our modern behaviors, and when you boil a lot of issues down, they are pretty primitive, and base.
redshirt
Can I argue that this guy is making science seem “cool” and appealing to dudes?
And that’s important too. Science is that important that any glorification should be celebrated.
It’s a terrible shirt though, for the record. Awful.
dance around in your bones
Like this
Please listen, oh please do!
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: He could have made science cool and appealing to dudes with the shorts, tats, and a different Hawaiian shirt. And he wouldn’t wouldn’t have been demeaning to “dudettes.”
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s a terrible shirt.
redshirt
Tats are terrible too, in my opinion, and yet somehow we’ve crossed some threshold where “normal” people get tattoos. Strange.
the Conster
@redshirt:
Most humans live their lives with only the lower chakras activated. Unfortunately, the energy in the lower chakras is very physical and constantly demanding- the stomach, the bowels, and the genitalia require constant attention. The heart, the mind and the spirit – not so much. It’s pointless to deny it, and to expect better, more conscientious and aware behavior from our fellow humans – especially a white male – only invites disappointment. What’s nice is to find anyone at all who understands this.
redshirt
@the Conster:
Yes! And?
the Conster
@redshirt:
I’m always prepared to be disappointed.
redshirt
@the Conster: It’s inevitable. For, what could live up to our imaginations?
But there’s always progress. Always reaching for more.
Also, I am [email protected].
Morzer
@eemom:
Point of order:
With his personality and charm, he’s a self-fucking moron.
Comrade Mary
Banner ads I’m getting here right now: games, banks, FedEx, insurance, rackspace (site hosting, not boobs), car rentals, furniture, hockey — but no barely clad women, no toe fungus, no tacky shirts.
The only things that MIGHT be in my browsing history that’s potentially relevant are some barking and furniture sites. But you get served ads for pr0ny stuff (if the ad service has appropriate ads) not only if you browse pr0ny sites, but if you browse other sites that correlate with interest in pr0n (in the aggregate, of course). If you play certain online games, for example, even if they aren’t pr0ny, the aggregate data shows that a lot of people at those sites are also interested in pr0n. Thus, your serving of pr0ny ads.
Omnes Omnibus
@Comrade Mary: The commerter who got pissy about the issue is proving his/her obtuseness a couple of threads up.
MBunge
@TaMara (BHF): @MBunge: I have a hot fireman calendar with very sexy fireman posing for my viewing pleasure. I also own sexy lingerie. Neither of these things are appropriate for the workplace.
That is the point.
But would a shirt with super-heroes on it be appropriate? Football players? Hello Kitty? The answer is no but I don’t think most of the people in this thread would be getting their knickers in a twist over any of them.
Those don’t look like bondage images to me. In fact, they show less skin and are less sexually suggestive than photos of real women you see in magazines like Vogue or Esquire.
Wearing that shirt is tacky and unprofessional but I don’t understand, and no one seems to have explained, how wearing it is “sexist” unless all that means is “something some women don’t like.”
Mike
Omnes Omnibus
@MBunge: Seriously?
redshirt
I think the shirt was meant for attention. And attention it has received.
What if it’s a science experiment?
redshirt
Theatricality and deception are powerful agents against the uninitiated.
Omnes Omnibus
@redshirt: Then it is probably counterproductive. Given the shirt and Taylor’s sexist comments, I think he was being a dick. Intentionally. I don’t understand why he wanted to do it, but I think it is what he was trying to do.
redshirt
@Omnes Omnibus: Probably. This guy is just a Slovakian version of your typical Internet male.
Gex
We see things like this all the time. Then we tell women to 1) lean in and 2) shut up and be quiet and good things will happen for us (thanks MS CEO for actually stating essentially that). And while we tell women contradictory things to make the workplace better, the idea that the hostile culture in the professional environment should be addressed by people like him leaving his need to have women as decoration at home is controversial.
Sure, why not. Why the fuck not. That’s about what I expect from humanity today.
Omnes Omnibus
@Gex: Gex, most of us commenting here understood why the shirt was a bad thing. And we pushed back against those who didn’t. It is not hopeless.
ETA: He was an asshole and he is being called out for it.
Morzer
@MBunge:
I’ve seen plenty of people in Japan wearing Hello Kitty shirts/gear in their workplace – and nobody seems to think of it as remotely problematic. Semi-naked women, not so much.
Morzer
@MBunge:
I am sorry, but what exactly is your argument here? Things weren’t as bad as they could have been, if Matt Taylor had worn a selection of magazines to work, and so all is well and there’s nothing to see here?
Mnemosyne (iPhone)
This thread is probably almost dead, but ….
The head of the division of the Giant Evil Corporation that I work for is well-known for his giant collection of Hawaiian shirts that he wears every day. I cannot imagine IN A MILLION YEARS him wearing something like that to the office. Ever.
Calouste
Btw, I wouldn’t be surprised if the only reason we see this guy is because he turns out to be the only Brit on the team. The British media (and by extension the US media) isn’t going to interview a frog, kraut or other suspicious continental if they can get there hands on someone who speaks native English.
Aimai
@redshirt: no. Evo psych has no real science behind it.
chopper
@EthylEster:
so does running a marathon. so the fuck what?
so?
if you have them done in prison, sure. that wasn’t the plan.
of course. otherwise i would never have gotten tattooed in the first place.
yes.
Jamey
I think the issue here is bad taste and poor judgment. Hopefully, science will find a cure for butthurt.
redshirt
@Aimai: What? I’ve read several books on the subject recently and they seemed “scientific”.
dance around in your bones
@EthylEster:
EthylEster, please look at these tats after women have had a mastectomy or a double.
It CAN be a good thing!
:)
Jeff
This did not offend me, it’s not the best taste, but is it really that big of a deal? He seams like an excited guy having fun. Might be an alright guy in person, sometimes jokers leave their brain at the door. We know nothing about him beyond this picture.
Hector_St_Clare
@aimai:
I strongly doubt very many men would object if a woman or a gay man did that. Certainly not me.
Where can I get one of these shirts?
Tieza Danglin
This man is part of a team that successfully landed a probe on a comet more than 300million miles away. But never mind that shit! Let’s watch as he tries to open his umbrella in the squall shit typhoon created by those who find it essential to Derrida the fuck out of his shirt and try to utilise some semiotic abilities to see if he’s a woman hater or not!
You people are the reason we haven’t figured out interstellar travel yet
Pococurante
Ugly obnoxious shirt. Yup.
But I strongly doubt that now we’ll be deprived of thousands of female scientists.