Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

… pundit janitors mopping up after the GOP

I wonder if trump will be tried as an adult.

Just because you believe it, that doesn’t make it true.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

Conservatism: there are some people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Nancy smash is sick of your bullshit.

Sitting here in limbo waiting for the dice to roll

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

“Squeaker” McCarthy

The truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

I’d try pessimism, but it probably wouldn’t work.

When do we start airlifting the women and children out of Texas?

I’d hate to be the candidate who lost to this guy.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

“I never thought they’d lock HIM up,” sobbed a distraught member of the Lock Her Up Party.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

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Reader Interactions

181Comments

  2. 2.

    Corner Stone

    Hoping for some decent games, not much to root for at this point.

    ETA, good luck today, Cracker’s Gators!

  3. 3.

    Amir Khalid

    Why is the left button always the first (and in my experience, the only) part of a PC mouse that dies?

  4. 4.

    lamh36

    Dude, everything seems to give you bad dreams…lol.

    Anyway, I don’t really watch football, especially college football. Bout the only college football I ever watch just happens to be coming on today. Southern University vs Grambling State University, one of the few nationally televised HBCU bowl games.

    I mostly just watch to catch a glimpse of the half-time show “Battle of the Bands”. Although I went to SU for my freshman and sophomore year of college, I’m not big SU booster. So I really just root for whoever the underdog is.

    I’m not sure who that is this year though, so I’ll just root for the losing team to “come back”…lol

  6. 6.

    greennotGreen

    I wish I could blame my bad dream on wasabi.

    Some friends of mine lost their six year-old at Newtown, and I dreamed last night that I was visiting them and seeing how devastated they were. Then I visit two other friends who had also lost children – infants, in those cases. I woke up very sad, then I realized that two of those people hadn’t actually lost any children, but the people at Newtown – that part is true.

    I hope the sun comes out. It would help my mood.

  7. 7.

    greennotGreen

    Actually, John’s post has brightened my mood. I’m divorced and so I never have to watch football!

    Go, traumatic brain injury treatment centers!

  8. 8.

    Amir Khalid

    @Baud:
    But it’s only ever that one part that wears out. I’m telling you, there’s got to be a conspiracy! I blame the Bilderberg group.

  10. 10.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    I just realized last night that one of the main characters in my novel (Phoebe’s teammate/lover Caitlyn) is almost entirely based upon my ex-wife. (The behavior and personality, not the hockey; Julian can’t skate any better than I can.) I don’t want to psychoanalyze that, but not wanting to doesn’t mean that I’m going to be able to keep myself from doing it.

    I can’t believe it took me 2 1/2 years to figure that out, especially since there are a couple of things that I lifted knowing: Julian is bipolar and the conversation in which Caitlyn instructs Phoebe how to accept an apology is lifted almost verbatim from real life. But I missed it.

    On the one hand this is pretty disconcerting and a little bit disturbing. On the other, it does mean that I have a model through to find her a distinct voice.

  11. 11.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    Meanwhile, at 2:30 the Gophers play their first consequential post-Thanksgiving football in as long as I can remember. I want a rematch against Ohio State.

  14. 14.

    JPL

    Since the only games that I can watch on my tv are UNC/NCState and Ohio State/Michigan. I’m going to rake and bag some leaves. Actually the leaves were deposited here from my neighbor’s yard. The wind plays cruel tricks. Next time I house hunt, I’m going to insure that I don’t have three large maples next to my property.

  15. 15.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    Watching OSU-Michigan, if it becomes a blowout, might switch to South Carolina-Clemson. If you have Netflix, check out the ESPN 30 for 3o series. Brian and the Boz(about the rise and fall of Brian Bosworth) and The Youngstown Boys(about Maurice Clarett) are good ones.

  18. 18.

    greennotGreen

    ETA: in reply to JPL at 9.

    I’m sure one learns to go on, but I’m also sure she’ll always be in their thoughts. They’ve had another child now which they might not have attempted at their ages if she hadn’t been an only child. I think that’s good.

  22. 22.

    buddy h

    I forget who said that eventually football would fade away, because as the truth about concussions became more widely known, mothers would forbid their sons from playing high school football, and thus college football, and then the new generation of talent would cease to exist. The guy who created the tv show “friday night lights” admitted he would never let his son play football in school.

  23. 23.

    Citizen_X

    Shawn and I hit the

    Great, John, just great. Just go ahead and put up some commenter-moderation bait, why don’t you?

    For the unwary: don’t quote the c-word!

  29. 29.

    Mike J

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Sunderland actually had a few opportunities in the first two minutes, but the next twenty minutes were played directly in front of their net. I don’t expect Chelsea to slip up.

    I have no idea what the relative strengths of Michigan and OSU are, but isn’t that supposed to be a biggish game, like Army-Navy or Harvard-Yale?

  30. 30.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): I have to say a Michigan win would be bigger. This Wolverine team is not your father’s Bo Schembechler ‘Rines. this is a team at rock bottom with their coach on his way out. If Michigan wins it will be Jonestown on High st in C-bus.

  32. 32.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @Mike J: It’s big, but Michigan sucks right now and Ohio State thinks they belong in the 4-team national playoff.

  36. 36.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @Mr Stagger Lee: On the other hand, Chelsea is destroying everything in its path and people are discussing the possibility of them going through the league undefeated, while Sunderland is fighting to avoid relegation (an eventuality which, as a Newcastle fan, would break my heart).

  38. 38.

    Linnaeus

    @Mike J:

    It’s always a huge game. And Michigan’s a 20.5 point underdog. It would be a big deal if they won, especially since OSU is looking to get into the playoff.

  40. 40.

    JCT

    My big game was yesterday – U of A victory over ASU, had a great time at the game. Even the ASU folks near us weren’t too nuts.

    The only thing I couldn’t join in on were the “Go Stanford” chants. As a Cal grad I have my limits.

  41. 41.

    Corner Stone

    @buddy h:

    I forget who said that eventually football would fade away, because as the truth about concussions became more widely known, mothers would forbid their sons from playing high school football, and thus college football

    That’s a nice thought and all, but let’s take a glance at the reality of the thing. For a number of individuals, an athletic scholarship to play and generate revenue for a D-I or nowadays even a D-II school, may be the only ticket out for that mother’s baby. They take a beating and have single digit chances of ever playing the game professionally, but they may or may not get a degree, make connections, open doors with alums, etc.
    What else do you think that young man with great feet and that can bench press a house over and over and over is going to do for a living?
    Is it bullshit? Yes, yes it is. But we’re still generations away from changing that. If ever.

  42. 42.

    Mr Stagger Lee

    Michigan has nothing to lose, someone needs to tell Buckeye Nation their playoff hopes is beginning to fade.

  45. 45.

    Suzanne

    @JCT: As I mentioned somewhere yesterday, I have one degree from UA and another from ASU. So I have two sets of friends, and I would piss one off, no matter who I rooted for.

    But lucky for me, I don’t give a damn about football. :)

    I am encouraging Spawn the Elder to go to UA, if she decides to attend school here in Arizona. I was a TA at ASU for three years, and I think their undergraduate experience sucks HARD.

  47. 47.

    burnspbesq

    Odd post-game ceremony planned for the Duke – Wake game tonight. Fans are invited on the field to watch heavy construction equipment brought in to begin the stadium renovation project.

    Given the disappointing end to the season and the students being home for Thanksgiving, i wonder if there will be 12,000 people there.

  49. 49.

    burnspbesq

    @Corner Stone:

    Wrong again. The kids in your neighborhood don’t want to be Duke Johnson when they grow up. They want to be Lyle Thompson.

    That you have no clue who Lyle Thompson is, is just further proof of your ignorance.

  51. 51.

    Xboxershorts

    Most of the Wasabi bought in America is actually just green dyed horseradish.

    We’re growing genuine Wasabi and I can say it does not come close to the kind of nose clearing heat you experience when eating what passes for Wasabi in most of our restaurants.

    Yes, we’re growing Wasabi in Potter County, PA. I love having a south facing sun room!

  52. 52.

    FlyingToaster

    I’m avoiding watching my Hoosiers getting beat like a drum by the Boilermakers, even though it’s actually on in DeepCable™. HerrDoktor found it while searching for WarriorGirl-appropriate programming.

    I think I’ll just go to Wegmans and get groceries.

    Oh, and Starbucks was out of advent calendars, but PartyCity still had them (20 or so of 5 different pictures). I’ll go up to the attic later and get the Lego ones I bought and hang them up too.

  54. 54.

    Corner Stone

    @Xboxershorts:

    We’re growing genuine Wasabi and I can say it does not come close to the kind of nose clearing heat you experience when eating what passes for Wasabi in most of our restaurants.

    It’s milder? What kind of general description might you ascribe to it?

  57. 57.

    trollhattan

    @Corner Stone: Having been lucky enough to have had it, I’ll compare it to watercress with a little more zip. They might even be related, but am hazy on that detail.

    Did not know you can raise it at home!

  58. 58.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    @Xboxershorts: Neat.

    I grew up having horseradish occasionally and recently got a can of “wasabi” powder from a local gourmet store (Balducci’s). It was fabulous just after opening it, but was almost bland the next time I was going to use it. Apparently it’s very perishable, as you no doubt know.

    Enjoy!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  59. 59.

    Mike E

    UNC punter gets roughed, giving the Heels a reprieve… sky blue getting steamrolled tho. Heh.

    Now they grab the QB by the grill. Another set of downs to get hammered by the State D…if this was a fight it would’ve been stopped by now.

  60. 60.

    Schlemazel

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
    I’m old enough to remember the last Gopher trip to the Rose Bowl & their last national championship – thats old!

    Since I don’t follow the sport really & even a 5 lb block of cheese could not make me give less of a shit about the alleged national championship this is silly but I have to ask. Assume a Gopher win & another in the B1joke championship game, would they be part of the play off?

  61. 61.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @Schlemazel: No. The Gophers won’t be in the (football) playoff. Only four teams in the country will be and (despite OSU’s delusions) no one from the Big 10 will be a part of it.

  63. 63.

    raven

    @Schlemazel: hahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhahhahahahahahahahhah

  66. 66.

    Xboxershorts

    @Corner Stone:

    It’s milder? What kind of general description might you ascribe to it?

    More tang than zip, as trollhatten accurately alluded to.

    We bought the starter sprigs off of Ebay, believe it or not….they like partial sun, warm and moist environments.

    The wifely unit made some awesome dip with it yesterday using stems and leaves, finely chopped, and mixing into some cream cheese…..

  67. 67.

    Schlemazel

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
    4 teams? man that seems designed to generate as much whining as the old system. I figured 8, maybe 16 with some gimmes to conferences that might draw a crowd. The NC$$ really needs to stretch this out with the big game the Saturday before the Stooper Bowl – WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE PROFITS?

    Glad to hear they will not be totally humiliated on national TV anyway. Still, given their record they probably are going to embarrass themselves at a game not named for an internet company or second tier insurance agency.

  70. 70.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    Michigan ties it back up at 21; Sunderland manages a tie against Mourinho’s Destroyers

  71. 71.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    After one period, the Gopher women are scoreless at Princeton; shots are Minnesota 19, Princeton 4.

  73. 73.

    Mike E

    State will go north of 300 yards rushing vs UNC today…their QB Brissett might get 200 of that by himself.

  75. 75.

    Schlemazel

    @raven: true but not many people watch the Music Bowl or the Larrys Keys While You Wait Bowl. As a Gopher backer (in general not specific) I don’t expect a win I just hope for an unnoticed humiliation. So I’d pull for something not within 2 days of January 1, preferably in the afternoon, during the week.

  77. 77.

    JCT

    @Suzanne: Definitely better to be a football agnostic in this state- a few of my grad students have serious “house divided” problems – not great when the big game is around Thanksgiving!

    And while I’m biased given that I am faculty at U of A, yup – for the undergraduate experience it’s Tucson all the way. I have to say that the U of A undergrads I have supervised in my lab have been outstanding.

  78. 78.

    Steve from Antioch

    @buddy h:
    Whoever said that vastly overestimated the intelligence and social conscience of the average concussion-ball fan.

    Heck, there are tens of millions of people in this country who watch “ultimate fighting” or even “professional” wrestling.

    Football will thrive as long as people think there is nothing wrong with shopping at Walmart.

    Idiocracy was optimistic.

  80. 80.

    ruemara

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Can you send a physical description of Caitlyn?

    I did some yoga for my knee and then did about 40 minutes on the elliptical. I feel beat. And starved. Yoga was at 8, so I grabbed some cheese and a mouthful of sunflower seeds. it did keep me going through all that. Just job hunting and animating going on here. Facial renders take a huge amount of time, I’m finding out.

  84. 84.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    Wooh! Hannah Brandt scores on a breakaway to put the Gophers up 1-0 in the third period.

  85. 85.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    Maryanne Menefee makes it 2-0 just like that. A Princeton defenseman managed to get her stick caught in her goalie’s pads, which makes it kind of hard to stop the puck.

  87. 87.

    Linnaeus

    @efgoldman:

    In Gardner’s defense, somewhat, he was recruited for a different offensive style than the one he’s running and he’s had three different offensive coordinators in his five years there. His offensive line hasn’t helped him much the past two seasons, either.

  92. 92.

    Linnaeus

    @p.a.:

    How much time you got? As for your other question, there’s been two (Rodriguez and Hoke). There’ll be another by January, I’m sure.

  94. 94.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    Gophers beat Princeton 2-1 and put the first points on the board against Bucky in football.

    Edit: Football team scores after taking over on the Wisconsin 13 on a fumbled punt.

  95. 95.

    FlyingToaster

    @SiubhanDuinne: In the same strip off Soldier’s Field Extension as Starbucks is Party City, which did have them.

    Not even remotely a wasted trip. Worth checking just to see.

  96. 96.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @Schlemazel: Yes. Yes, I did.

    My excuse for not writing today is that my period key is broken. Though now that I pried it off, hitting the button underneath the key works just fine.

  97. 97.

    I'mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet

    OT: Kevin Drum has an interesting piece with more on Ray Rice, for those interested. It’s a little more nuanced than I thought, but I haven’t kept up with the details.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  98. 98.

    Schlemazel

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
    Reminds me of an old thing from National Lampoon. First letter starts out
    Hxlp, thx x kxy on my typxwritxr is brokxn. with each successive missive having another letter as x. the last letter is all x-es.

    Oh my, this Kill guy may actually be the real deal finally?

  103. 103.

    Citizen_X

    @p.a.:

    1636. Minor thing called secular government. Living on laurels ever since.

    Local boy named Lovecraft wrote some stories there, but that was a while ago.

  106. 106.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    17-10 Gophers with 4 1/2 left to go in the 2nd quarter. This is going to be a tight one.

  107. 107.

    Schlemazel

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): I do not always agree with Drum but, even as distasteful as it is to do so, I agree with his thoughts on this. I do not think someone not required to drive for a living be fired for a DUI for instance. The problems of society with certain crimes should be handled by the justice system. Perhaps a look at domestic abuse & the results from past sentences to see if we are getting penalties right is warranted.

    Thats said, The NFL, along with many others, has a ridiculous place in modern society and should have “morality clauses” in contracts. You can be banned for life for betting but not beating? It would send a louder message if the NFL actually did something on this but there is money to be made boys, screw human decency!

  116. 116.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @lamh36:

    I predict very great things for Malia Obama. It’s going to be a lot of fun watching her grow into adulthood — clearly she already has a pretty good idea of her true voice (smart, with just the right amount of snark), and I can’t wait to find out what she does with her awesome self over the next 10-15+ years. Sasha too, of course.

  117. 117.

    J R in WV

    @lamh36:

    And some Republican piece of scum has the gall to diss the Obama girls, says they are dressed on national TV as if they were going to a bar!

    Then says since President Obama and the First Lady don’t have any respect for America, the girls don’t have a good role model, so maybe she can’t blame them after all.

    Then she apologizes, and deletes her insults, (but not before scren captures are made!) and then she deletes her apology, thinking she can put the whole despicable train into another universe, the deleted trash universe.

    A PR person for some Republican Congressman!!

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/gop-staffer-sasha-malia-obama-dressed-bar-article-1.2027634

    what a bitch!!!

  119. 119.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @efgoldman:

    Mebbe yez shoulda’ stuck wit’ hockey.

    I’ve been saying that for decades. This is the good out of this world fantastic version of Gopher football. Pretty much every year since i got up here in 1986 has been worse than this, and I arrived too late to see the absolute nadir of Smoky Joe Salem era Gopher football.

  121. 121.

    JCT

    @lamh36: Hilarious – great kids, seem to be amazingly grounded. I love watching them interact with their dad.

    And LOL at that classless GOP staffer – useless.

  122. 122.

    Schlemazel

    @efgoldman:
    I worked with a guy that would fill out his basketball brackets based on which mascot would win in a fight. He won the pot 2 of 5 years.

  124. 124.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @lamh36: Chuck Todd gave an interview at Salon

    I’m trying to be a conduit, to be a challenge or a devil’s advocate for the public. I wish there wasn’t as much focus on the individual personalities of journalists. The people we cover should be the focus.

    or… you know… the policies that those people are or aren’t enacting and why. The entire basis for Chinless Chuck’s “book” of typed conventional wisdom is, from the two reviews I’ve read, an deep analysis of how Obama’s individual personality has caused gridlock.

  128. 128.

    Suzanne

    @Schlemazel: I see no reason that entertainers should keep their jobs in the public eye when they damage their images by being violent. Committing violent crime is not the same as being a screw-up.

  134. 134.

    Schlemazel

    @Suzanne:
    And that is why I suggested a morality clause. I think a person should have his or her job even if they commit a criminal act as long as the crime does not affect what they do. But I did say that for high profile jobs like pro sports the bar can be lower. But realize that pro sports all operate under a collective bargaining agreement and penalties need to be spelled out & meted out equitably. Something the NFL is particularly bad at.

  137. 137.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @Schlemazel: What constitutes a high profile job in a world in which random employees get fired for tweeting something controversial? And what constitutes “morality” under a clause?

  138. 138.

    2liberal

    @p.a.:

    1636. Minor thing called secular government. Living on laurels ever since.

    that was Portsmouth RI, not Providence. My hometown.

  139. 139.

    Schlemazel

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN):
    Certainly sports and entertainment would be high profile, the sort of job that gets talked about on TV and written about a lot, a job where large numbers of people know the names of a substantial number of employees and attention of a negative kind is likely to reflect badly on the organization as a whole.

    I had morality clause in quotes for a reason. It would take lawyers to word it correctly but at its base it would be any behaviour that brought negative attention to the organization. That could be as simple as getting into a shouting match in public right up to obstructing the investigation of a murder you were involved in. There could be general topics and expected punishments for the various levels.

    Would it be perfect? No, but it would be better & they sort of have parts of it in place already.

  140. 140.

    Honus

    John, you ate sushi you got on the way back from Wheeling Island and you wonder why you have bad dreams? Do the correct thing and get a pizza from Undos next time.

  142. 142.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @Schlemazel: Actually, that would be horrible. Every job in the current world can end up with the employee on TV if they so much as behave badly on Twitter, and “. . . any behaviour that brought negative attention to the organization,” would include someone in Alabama writing an op-ed in favor of gay marriage.

    No. Absolutely no to your idea.

  143. 143.

    Suzanne

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): Jesus. All employers can, and do, make their own social media policies, and can fire someone for violating those policies if they want. Morality clauses spell out what you can or can’t do. How the courts and IRS define entertainers is complicated, but the consensus is if the person is prominent for their work in film, visual arts, sports, etc., and gains their living from that, then they are an entertainer. Violent crime can and should damage someone’s public image and therefore their employability.

    I am OK with firing someone who drives for a living who gets a DUI. Shit, I can be let go with or without cause for any reason. I fail to see why Ray Rice being able to stay in the NFL is now a cause célèbre for liberals. FFS. The man beat the fuck out of his wife. We should be talking about which jail cell he deserves.

  144. 144.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @Suzanne:

    All employers can, and do, make their own social media policies, and can fire someone for violating those policies if they want.

    Yes, and that’s what I think needs to change. And I don’t think “entertainer” is nearly as easy to define as you do. If you think it is easy, then you do it rather than giving the cop out of, “The courts will decide.”

  145. 145.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @Suzanne:

    As for:

    We should be talking about which jail cell he deserves.

    I’m not necessarily opposed to this but that’s the job of the criminal justice system, not the NFL.

  147. 147.

    burnspbesq

    @Suzanne:

    I fail to see why Ray Rice being able to stay in the NFL is now a cause célèbre for liberals.

    Because liberals understand the importance of due process, and also don’t think it’s a good idea for employers to be able to arbitrarily and capriciously get rid of employees.

  148. 148.

    Cookie Monster

    @Schlemazel: From a sociopathic perspective, that’s completely logical. The majority fans probably don’t give a damn if some dude beats up his wife, at least not enough to stop watching and buying crap, but if they think players are throwing games, they’ll walk en masse, which means money — and money is important…

  151. 151.

    Schlemazel

    @burnspbesq:
    Yeah. As awful a deal as the beating was I have to support due process. It ranks right up there with supporting the Nazi’s march though Skokie. Makes me sick to my stomach but it is required if you honestly believe in the constitution and human rights.

    @Cookie Monster:
    absolutely. Thats why the sponsors yanking the NFLs chain on Rice & Peterson was such a big deal. Sadly, they came in too little & too late and that goes back to the due process part. Sponsors should be actively working to force the NFL to be prepared for the next Vick, Rice, Roethlisberger, Lewis (because conviction may not be the dividing line at some point) or Peterson. Instead they went back to sleep counting dollars once it was OK to do that again.

  152. 152.

    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)

    @Suzanne: Because it means that anything you do that’s controversial becomes a firing offense. If you worry at all about a chilling effect on people’s behavior, you can’t be in favor of this environment. As I said, it means that firing someone because they speak out in favor of gay marriage is perfectly acceptable.

  154. 154.

    LookingForACanadian

    Once again, actual fan weighing in: I’m extremely pleased with the 2014 Gopher football efforts and record. Here’s hoping for even better things to come.

  155. 155.

    James E Powell

    @Suzanne:

    I am OK with firing someone who drives for a living who gets a DUI. Shit, I can be let go with or without cause for any reason. I fail to see why Ray Rice being able to stay in the NFL is now a cause célèbre for liberals.

    Is this a species of the “Since I’m an at-will employee I want everyone else to be an at-will employee” argument? Or is it just that you want anyone who disgusts you to be an at-will employee?

    If fail to see why anyone would not understand liberals standing up for the validity of collective bargaining agreements, even under challenging fact situations. FFS.

  156. 156.

    Mnemosyne

    @James E Powell:

    If fail to see why anyone would not understand liberals standing up for the validity of collective bargaining agreements, even under challenging fact situations.

    Because it seems like yet another way that men think of domestic violence as no big deal, not worth getting upset about, why should a guy lose his livelihood just because he knocked his wife/girlfriend unconscious?

    ETA: To put it another way, why should Darren Wilson resign from the police force? After all, the grand jury brought back a “no bill” on Michael Brown’s death, so why shouldn’t he go back to being a police officer?

  157. 157.

    Suzanne

    @James E Powell: Oh, please. Violent crime is not a “challenging fact”. Rape culture FTW!

    If you materially and directly hurt your employer’s image, I think it’s reasonable that your employer wouldn’t want you to work for them. If you’re paid to oppose gay marriage, and then you support it, your credibility with your employer is shot. Understandably so. And Ray Rice is paid to entertain people, to attract their attention and their dollars, and to burnish the public image of the NFL. He cannot do that effectively as a violent criminal.

    I, for one, am turned off. As long as the NFL employs men who beat and rape women, they will not get a single dollar from me.

  158. 158.

    chopper

    @Suzanne:

    If you hurt your employer’s image, why should you work there?

    In a broader sense, because your employer gets to decide if you’re hurting their ‘image’. Kinda subjective innit?

  159. 159.

    Suzanne

    @chopper: Yes, it is subjective. All human relations are subjective. Everything about employment is subjective, and it will always be that way, because customers are also irrational and subjective in their spending decisions.

  160. 160.

    chopper

    @Suzanne:

    Which means if your boss wants to shitcan someone so he can hire his shitbag son-in-law, he can just say ‘well, I think Suzanne is making us look bad’.

  161. 161.

    Mnemosyne

    @chopper:

    Which means if your boss wants to shitcan someone so he can hire his shitbag son-in-law, he can just say ‘well, I think Suzanne is making us look bad’.

    Which is exactly like cold-cocking your girlfriend in public and having it caught on camera.

    I’m not very fond of slippery slope arguments, and this is one reason why — because firing someone for obviously self-serving reasons gets conflated with firing someone for publicly beating up their girlfriend.

  162. 162.

    Suzanne

    @chopper: Yes. That’s true.

    But it also means that my boss could fire a violent criminal. Or someone who dresses inappropriately, or doesn’t have proper hygiene, or is insulting, or talks shit about the company, all of which are reasonable, IMO, depending on the specific industry.

    Besides, you’re acting like the entertainment industry is some bastion of fairness and equality. They already can hire whomever they want to star in that movie. It’s not open to George Clooney and 3,000,000 other men. It’s George Clooney or Brad Pitt, end of story.

  163. 163.

    chopper

    @Mnemosyne:

    Which is exactly like cold-cocking your girlfriend in public and having it caught on camera.

    You must have missed my phrase ‘in a broader sense’. I’m clearly arguing against the general idea of someone being able to fire you merely for making them look bad. That is also clear from the post I replied to as well as the part I quoted.

    Thanks for playing tho!

  164. 164.

    Suzanne

    @Mnemosyne: Word. Slippery slope arguments are almost always fallacious. Finding THE MAGIC BRIGHT LINE to separate this from that is really not the issue when a dude beat the fuck out of his wife, and people don’t see how that could create bad PR.

    I got news for you: everyone who has a job is in the marketing business. So be careful.

  165. 165.

    Mnemosyne

    @chopper:

    I’m clearly arguing against the general idea of someone being able to fire you merely for making them look bad.

    Except that Suzanne and I aren’t arguing in the general sense. We’re pointing to the specific case of Ray Rice cold-cocking his girlfriend and saying that it’s pretty fucked up that he got away with this, and you dudes are coming back with, Well, but in a general sense …

  166. 166.

    chopper

    @Suzanne:

    But your post was defending very broad employment practices. ‘I can get shitcanned for any reason’ and all that. Clearly much broader than the specific situation of ray rice.

  168. 168.

    Mnemosyne

    @chopper:

    Sure. How about this:

    I am OK with firing someone who drives for a living who gets a DUI.

    That’s not “anyone who gets a DUI should be fired.” That’s “if your job involves driving, and you get a DUI, you should be fired.”

    Rice’s job is entertainment. It has been a principle for many years that if an actor/actress/entertainer damages the brand they represent, they can be fired, which is why Gilbert Gottfried is no longer the spokesduck for AFLAC.

    I’m still not sure how you read one line about Suzanne’s own employment terms in that comment and came up with the entire comment meaning that she thinks everyone else should be under the same terms when every other line in the comment says the opposite.

  169. 169.

    Fort Geek

    @Amir Khalid: There’s a tiny brass leaf spring in the switch that loses tension after several months of use.

    Fortunately, it’s very easy to fix if you’re so inclined and have 20 minutes or so. Just need a small Phillips and some very small flat screwdrivers and tweezers or hemostats. And reading glasses if you can’t even see the $*^(# spring (how did my arms get too short?!)

  170. 170.

    chopper

    @Suzanne:

    They already can hire whomever they want to star in that movie.

    But once clooney has the part and the contract and all that he’s not going to be dropped for any reason someone can come up with, right?

  171. 171.

    chopper

    @Mnemosyne:

    And her whole bit about “All employers can, and do, make their own social media policies, and can fire someone for violating those policies if they want. Morality clauses spell out what you can or can’t do” and how she can be shitcanned for any reason, that went right past you?

    She was clearly arguing broader employment practices than rice’s situation. When I brought up a general situation based on her argument she said ‘yeah, sure’ (post 170).

  172. 172.

    Mnemosyne

    @chopper:

    And her whole bit about “All employers can, and do, make their own social media policies, and can fire someone for violating those policies if they want. Morality clauses spell out what you can or can’t do” and how she can be shitcanned for any reason, that went right past you?

    Uh, no. That’s actually employment law right now. So we’re supposed to pile on Suzanne for daring to state how the real world currently operates instead of how it should operate in your ideal world?

  173. 173.

    Mnemosyne

    @chopper:

    But once clooney has the part and the contract and all that he’s not going to be dropped for any reason someone can come up with, right?

    Entertainment contracts always contain clauses about what behavior will make the contract null and void. I guarantee you that there are clauses in Clooney’s contract stating that if he does certain things that damage his image or the image of the studio making the film (like gets into a DUI that kills/injures someone), he will be fired. It’s a bog-standard way of operating in the entertainment industry. It’s not as bad as the old days where having a photo taken of you with a drink in your hand was a firing offense, but there are still limits.

    It was very, very difficult for Robert Downey Jr. to get hired for a long time after his prison stint for drugs, because no motion picture insurance company was willing to back a movie he was in. To this day, he still has clauses in his contract that state that if he’s caught with drugs, he can be summarily fired.

    Now, I am somewhat sympathetic to the argument that the NFL player’s union negotiated a particular remedy under their contract and the NFL broke that negotiated agreement, but I don’t think that’s a valid reason for members of the public to stop pointing out that Ray Rice is a wife-beating asshole who shouldn’t be rehired.

  174. 174.

    chopper

    @Mnemosyne:

    That’s actually employment law right now.

    Apparently that’s just awesome.

    instead of how it should operate in your ideal world?

    Yes, how dare i want better employment rights. Stupid idealism.

  175. 175.

    chopper

    @Mnemosyne:

    Of course rice is an asshole who shouldn’t be hired. That doesn’t defend arbitrary employment practices like ‘Suzanne can be shitcanned for any reason’.

  176. 176.

    Mnemosyne

    @chopper:

    Yes, how dare i want better employment rights. Stupid idealism.

    If you want better employment rights, Ray Rice may not be your ideal poster child, especially if you need women to get on board with your ideas. Just sayin’.

  177. 177.

    James E Powell

    Quite a lot of missing the point to make a point.

    If an employer can disregard a collective bargaining agreement simply because the employer’s customers or the general public, neither of which are party to the agreement, object, then the collective bargaining agreement is worthless.

    We have a criminal justice system. It doesn’t work as well as we’d like, we have one. Is it really necessary for the public to be a party to every employment agreement? How about other agreements?

    Should we only disregard employment agreements when it’s something that pisses you all off? Or should we also disregard them when right-wing bigots are angry about something? Which people are better at whipping up the mobs with the pitchforks and torches?

  178. 178.

    Suzanne

    @chopper: It’s possible to want better employment rights, and still think that employees who fuck up a company’s image deserve to get fired. ESPECIALLY for those in the public eye, your conduct matters in how others perceive you, and it is likely that people will stop spending their dollars at your employer’s company if you act like a tool, never mind a violent wife-beating criminal.

    All y’all who think that corporate image is not a real and valuable thing are completely deluded. Customers are irrational and subjective. Story at eleven.

  179. 179.

    Suzanne

    @James E Powell: If Rice violated a morality or public image clause in his contract, and it would be shocking if there wasn’t one, then he can be fired for cause. A collective bargaining agreement doesn’t mean an employer cannot fire for cause.

    And if there was ever any fucking cause, this is it.

    Not to mention, dudes who are more worried about Ray Rice’s “right” to a hugely lucrative job in the public eye than about women getting beaten completely reinforce rape culture. On your list of priorities, I would like to think that the victims of violent crime rank more highly than the perpetrators.

  180. 180.

    Mnemosyne

    @James E Powell:

    I’m sure that Darren Wilson belongs to a police union that has a collective bargaining agreement. So, again, you think it would be fine for Wilson to retain his job and continue to work as a cop in Ferguson since he was not indicted in the death of Michael Brown, correct?

  181. 181.

    Frank in midtown

    For all the criticism Alabama’s defense has had heaped on it for the IB, I think it was actually pretty good, particularly in the red zone.

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