It’s not enough that they want to be completely unaccountable for anything they do, but they want us to fondle their delicate feelings while they do it:
Rams vice president of football operations Kevin Demoff, reached late Monday evening by the Post-Dispatch, denied that he issued an apology to the St. Louis County Police Department for the “Hands Up” gesture on Sunday.
“This morning, I had phone conversations with both Chief Dotson and Chief Belmar regarding yesterday’s events,” Demoff said. “I expressed to both of them that I felt badly that our players’ support of the community was taken as disrespectful to law enforcement.
“Later in the afternoon I had a positive meeting with Chief Dotson, Jeff Roorda, and Gabe Crocker at St. Louis city police headquarters to discuss with them how the Rams’ organization and law enforcement could build upon the positive relationship we already have. We began a good dialogue but recognize there is work to be done to strengthen our relationship.
“In none of these conversations did I apologize for our players’ actions. I did say in each conversation that I regretted any offense their officers may have taken. We do believe it is possible to both support our players’ First Amendment rights and support the efforts of local law enforcement as our community begins the process of healing.
“Chief Belmar’s assertion that our conversation was heartfelt is accurate, and I would characterize our conversation as productive. Our organization wants to find ways to use football to bring our community together.”
Demoff declined to answer any further questions on the issue.
Have the police always been totally composed of sociopaths? I don’t remember police being like this when I was a kid. Then again, I’m white.
BTW- Obama’s plan to spend $250 million on bodycams for cops provides a perfect opportunity for shitty cops to out themselves. The departments and individual police who protest this- they’re the ones with the issues.
BGinCHI
Fuck the NFL. The Rams are Rushbo’s home team, so craven cowardice from the suits is predictable.
The cops are reacting to being called out on exactly what makes them most vulnerable: they need a culture change and they don’t want to admit it.
Of course, that goes for the suits in management of the highly profitable NFL as well.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
You nailed the reason you don’t recall it. Being from a small town help also. By the time I was a young teen it was apparent that urban police in the minor metro area where I lived were by and large bigoted assholes, many of whom were indeed sociopaths. The numbers had diminished by the time I began working as a prosecutor, but they were still there.
BR
I wonder if it’d also be possible to create an app that is easy to turn on for people to record their own encounters with police — and maybe even to signal to others in the vicinity (using bluetooth or something) that they are being requested to videotape the proceedings. Then the video is auto-streamed to the web so it can’t be deleted.
Cacti
Just in case anyone hadn’t heard, Jeff Roorda, one of the head honchos of the St. Louis area police union, was fired from his last cop job for official misconduct.
TR
We should start lining up all the Bush-era surveillance “if you have nothing to hide, what’s the problem?” comments from Fox News so we can have that ready when they scream about the police’s privacy being invaded.
eric
There is a delicate balance to be had and our discourse does not do “delicate.” There is some truth to the notion that living the life of a police officer in a setting where the odds against violence against an officer is non-negligible will affect the nature of an officer’s reactions. Thus, the police want to regulate police actions by other officers that understand that dynamic. Yet, such self-regulation is not a license to absolve all to protect the truly honorable. If you want to regulate yourselves (and I think a strong case can be made that the prosecutors are too close to the police to be considered anything but self-regulators) then you have to show the fortitude to do the right thing even if it means one of your own suffers the consequences. Here is where the police fail. They do not *credibly* regulate bad actors, such that confidence in the entirety of law enforcement is undermined. To use a hackneyed expression: with great power comes great responsibility. If the police cannot handle the latter, they ought not have the former.
factoring in race, with each new shooting, it is becoming clearer and clearer to the more reasonable whites among us that the system of self-regulation is broken. Non-whites have known this for a long time because they have lived with the consequences of that break down and suffered under its yoke.
Percy Percy
Remember too that the Rams are likely moving to LA next month, with no replacement in sight. That’s a lot of Juicy McYummy overtime disappearing for good. Cops are most certainly bitter about this reality.
Villago Delenda Est
The pigs of St. Louis need to be turned in to ham, bacon, and pork chops.
Felonius Monk
As I pointed out in a previous thread, Jeff Roorda is a prime example of the problem.
Bobby B.
Ladies and gents, for your viewing pleasure, our Men In Blue!
http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/7909958-St-Louis-police-group-criticizes-Rams-players/
No, really, please, your silent gratitude is thanks enough!
Joey Maloney
@BR: CopBlock has a list of recommended streaming apps for your phartsmone.
Karen in GA
Let’s give Demoff credit for knowing a non-apology when he offers one. It’s not often someone admits* that he really said “Sorry you’re so sensitive.”
*Or cops to it, so to speak.
srv
This is why there will never be a revolution.
It is well established you can’t win revolutions without the police on your side.
Cacti
@Felonius Monk:
Everything you need to know about St. Louis area police culture is captured in the fact that they chose a disgraced, dirty, ex-cop to be their union spokesman.
The most embarrassing part is that Roorda’s a dem, a former Missouri legislator, and Jay Nixon stumped for him during his last (unsuccessful) campaign.
MikeInSewickley
I am in total agreement with this and so should every lawyer associated with police departments. For God’s Sake, all the bullshit, frivolous lawsuits that occur from “OW… he hit me!” would mostly go away.
And the police that really care to “protect and serve” can move ahead full speed.
JC is right in that any police union or police admin that goes crazy against it (as Fox News will I am sure) will be showing their true colors (pardon the unfortunate pun).
elmo
Yes. SATSQ, etc.
Ken
This is one of the rare cases where I like the framing “I’m sorry you were offended by my remarks.”
Cacti
@Ken:
In this case, I prefer an Ice Cube-style response to calls for an apology: “Regret it? Nope. Said it? Yep. Listen to my big black boots as I step.”
Felonius Monk
Shorter Demoff: “I’m sorry that the STL police are such assholes as to be offended by our players expression of solidarity to the citizens who you were sworn to serve and protect.”
SatanicPanic
Good for Obama for doing this. Best president of our lifetimes.
pharniel
So yeah..police have almost always been Public Servants – like teachers – and you generally get two varieties: The die hard idealist who tries to do their best, actually protect and serve, and keep people safe & try to get the best (possible) outcome out of a situation.
Then you have the vast majority of the rest who just want the power & money.
This goes back….centuries. Life on Mars and Ashes to Ashes covers a bit of this but outside of America most people assume the police work for, and have the best interests of, the police first and their political benefactors second. It’s why electing a county sheriff was considered so important – because then the benefactors/patrons are at least typically local.
That being said different departments have different standards – Almost every interaction I’ve had with the Michigan State Police has been professional, polite and directed towards a purpose that (generally) served the public good. Most of the encounters I’ve had with the Lenaway County Sheriff’s department has been an exercise in understanding that Boss Hogg was most likely based on real people.
Big ole hound
Maybe every NFL team should go “hands up” then play like the Rams in that Raiders beat down. Those Rams player accomplished their goal of spreading the word.
MattF
@SatanicPanic: OK, but do you really think that police officers will willingly wear ‘Obamacams’? And do you think the people who run police departments will discipline officers who disable the cams or just put them into pockets? Color me skeptical.
The big problem, as ever, is with the managers– the people who make and enforce policy.
Shalimar
“In none of these conversations did I apologize for our players’ actions. I did say in each conversation that I regretted any offense their officers may have taken.”
Finally, someone who recognizes that “I’m sorry people were offended” is not an actual apology.
OldDave
I believe it was around $75M for body cameras – the rest was for training, etc. See the WH link.
CONGRATULATIONS!
Yes.
My grandfather was one (a cop and possibly a psychopath, but he did care about his grandkids). He was rather insistent that, prior to long-haired white me and my brother getting our driver’s licenses, that we know how to act and deal with cops. I thought his details and drilling to make sure we’d “gotten it” were overcautious.
First time I got pulled over it took about two seconds to figure out why he’d been so “shrill” about it. Jesus fuckballs, even when treated with total respect and slavish ass-kissing, cops are psychos.
And cops nowadays are so much worse than they were back in the 1980s.
SatanicPanic
@MattF: I think it’ll be a continuation of the red state/blue state divide, with some blue states requiring them, and some red states banning them. Hopefully the issue doesn’t reach SCOTUS before Hillary replaces Scalia or Kennedy
retr2327
“Have the police always been totally composed of sociopaths?”
On a closely related subject, I heard on the news today that the Ferguson police are conducting an investigation into Michael Brown’s stepfather’s actions after the non-indictment. They seek to charge him with inciting to riot, arson, etc.
Have these police totally lost their minds? Maybe his actions are technically indictable, maybe not, but you have got to be kidding me.
Every single police officer in that department should be fired; the building demolished; and the ground underneath salted.
The Other Chuck
@BR: I’ve looked around for truly auto-streaming video apps, and there just aren’t any that actually work. Best I’ve seen are ones that auto-upload when stopping, and those tend to crash constantly. UStream is probably the best it gets, but I don’t think the standard version of that actually saves recordings at all.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Karen in GA: I give the NFL some credit for understanding that a certain not-small percentage of both their players and fans are African-American, and give them more credit for how they’ve handled the butthurt STL police union, who comprise a very small number of people of no consequence. Demoff has handled this very well.
See, the STL cops are in a bit of a pickle and can’t push this too hard as those gameday jobs are sweet, goldbricking fun for a lot of their cops. If they decide to go full-metal dickhead, they lose all those sweet billable hours and sideline seats. So “I’m sorry you got offended” will be the end of it, unless the STL pig union is a lot dumber than I thought they were.
Skerry
Mayor of Baltimore vetoed bill to require body cameras for the city police. (Also, vetoed ban on plastic bags)
ETA: this happened yesterday. City council says they do not have votes to override
lamh36
Father of Cleveland cop who shot Tamir Rice says his son had no choice
max
Have the police always been totally composed of sociopaths?
Some.
I don’t remember police being like this when I was a kid.
I remember a lot of this crap in Dallas back in the 70’s and 80’s. It seemed to die down a lot in the 90’s.
max
[‘That said, I don’t recall anyone quite going the full Limbaugh like the STL crowd is doing.’]
RareSanity
@BGinCHI:
I gotta disagree with you on this one…regardless of what team Rush roots for.
I’ve been pleasantly surprised by how the NFL as a whole has handled this situation. The easiest thing in the world for the league or the Rams to have done, would have been to…even if cautiously…side with the STL PD.
Not only did they not do that, what the Rams executive did was as close to a public rebuke of the PD, and public statement of support for the players, as you are ever likely to get from an organization like an NFL franchise, over a subject as racially charged as this one…and against a police department.
No, neither the league or the Rams came out and said, “Fuck you cops! The players are right…if you don’t want players protesting against you, stop killing unarmed black people!”
But what they did say is, “We don’t have have problem with what the player’s did, if you have a problem with it…well, that’s your problem.”
Cacti
@lamh36:
Unfortunately for his homicidally overzealous son, the video seems to tell a different story.
LongHairedWeirdo
Around the time of the Diallo shooting, the cops were whining when Springsteen performed the non-attacking song “American Skin” in which the cops were shocked, *shocked* – that a parent admonishes children to be polite to officers and keep their hands in sight.
Right about then, I realized policing organizations had gone completely around the bend. It’s one thing to want to defend the police from unjust attacks. It’s another to fail to recognize some hideous, farcial tragedy as a hideous, farcial tragedy.
The only relief I had during the Diallo shooting was that I was sure that the party of “personal responsibility” was going to refuse to let up on those cops who tried to pretend that if you’re scared it excuses wildly firing… yeah, I couldn’t keep a straight face either. No, the responsibility belonged to Diallo to assume four non-uniformed cops were just,you know, friendly police officers who want to check his papers, which any good citizen should be proud to go through.
Shakezula
That’s excellent, down to the non-apology. And it is nice to see those uniformed dumbfucks run headlong into a big wall of money.
The fact that the Rams also tap-danced all over the Raiders has got to sting a bit.
Cacti
If you really want to piss off the St. Louis cops, tell them they’re welcome to go do security for the NFL teams in Kirkwood, Webster Groves, or Creve Coeur, or whichever white flight bedroom community they go home to in West County.
mai naem
How are you going to control cops turning off the cameras or intentionally breaking them, intentionally damaging them? Just wondering.
Villago Delenda Est
@lamh36: The father is a shitstain, just like his shitstain spawn.
geg6
Good on him. Love how he correctly characterizes a non-apology as exactly what it is.
That said, I know quite a few cops. Not a single one of them has a problem with body cams. But, to a person, they all said that they are not the majority among their brethren. They, like me, don’t understand the mindset. They all stated that they felt it was good protection for themselves and protecting the community was simply gravy on top. But they all know how many assholes they serve with and said it would cause the butthurt to end all butthurt if they were all required to wear them.
geg6
@mai naem:
If they camera does not have a technical issue, if it’s smashed or turned off, then I would say that disciplinary action against the officer should be swift and severe.
Belafon
So, a proper use of the “I’m sorry you were offended” apology.
Villago Delenda Est
@geg6: They take the “job” of policing seriously.
They are professionals. They’re the sort of cops who welcomed the Miranda ruling as a way of improving the status of police work. Making it more professional, providing a clear set of rules, cutting off dishonest short cuts to “solving” a crime.
All too many of those wielding badges are not, and validate the Rolling Stones’ commentary on cops.
RareSanity
@mai naem:
There would have to be immediate, non-negotiable, punishments for “malfunctions” that cannot be directly attributed to hardware defect. Believe me, you can tell if something failed because of a factory defect, or if someone tampered with it.
My first job out of college was as a software engineer at a MAJOR cell phone manufacturer. The hardware guys there told me this story about how they kept getting these phones back from this security company on warranty returns, and they could not figure out what was going on. Until one day, one of the engineers grabbed a working phone and tossed it in the microwave for 30 seconds. Instantly they were able to reproduce the failures the company was reporting.
Turns out the security guard was putting his phone in the microwave during his shift so he could sleep and have an excuse for why nobody could reach him. He was fired when the results were communicated to the company.
Point is, no cop that thinks he/she has an undetectable way to disable the camera, is smarter than the team engineers that will be trying figure out how they disabled it. The cop is basically insulting the engineer’s design by saying, “It just failed”. The engineers aren’t so much trying to prove the cop wrong, as trying to prove themselves (and their designs) right.
Just Some Fuckhead
I’m not sure I’d characterize them all as sociopaths. But, yes, generally speaking, the person that wants to be a guard dog for the property class is going to exhibit personality issues.
ET
Those police just sound like a bunch of whiners. I can’t imagine that they haven’t heard worse. I guess the post 9/11 love fest for law enforcement has warped them.
Older
I’m white and nearly 80 years old and I can tell you that as far back as I can remember, yes, the cops have been mostly sociopaths. I’ve lived in a big city, a small city, and a very big city, so my experience has been varied. Also, I live where people are generally pretty civil, so my view would be slanted in favor of the police, if anything. But really. Power corrupts and they keep being given more and more power; what can we expect?
I have an uncle who was a policeman — briefly, because he was not a sociopath. Also, he may have been a little too trusting — he got into the news when a bad guy stole his police car.
craigie
I believe the expression is “If you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.”
Jay
I think this post’s two tags should be combined into one. Who’s with me?
Mnemosyne
@mai naem:
IMO, the only way to do it is to make a law or regulation that states that if there’s a difference in the story told by the cop and the citizen and the camera wasn’t working, there is an automatic assumption that the cop is lying. Period. Part of the reason they’re getting away with this shit is that, if the camera mysteriously “doesn’t work” at the moment where the citizen says they were kicked or punched, it goes back to a “he said/he said” situation with the cop’s word having more weight than the citizen’s.
Switch that around, put the onus on the cop to make sure that his/her camera is working or else they automatically get fired and/or prosecuted, and I think that changes really fast.
I work with a guy who has a friend who’s a cop and he loves having that body camera. He feels that it gives him a lot of protection against false complaints. As other people have said here, it seems like the only cops who don’t want to use them are already bad cops.
Arclite
Wasn’t Darren Wilson wearing a body cam?
Eric U.
I recall many a conversation where some jackass lamented the loss of the day when cops could just beat people up instead of arresting them. I also had a co-worker that was severely beaten by the cops after being arrested. I have never seen anyone that was as badly beaten as that, it’s amazing there was no permanent damage. So yeah, I think there is evidence that they have always been bad. Of course, in most places they weren’t as likely to kill you** as they are now, that seems to be a growing problem.
**ignoring their participation in lynchings, but I think they usually didn’t do that in uniform.
philpm
@MattF: They’ll “willingly” wear them after the various police departments are threatened with loss of insurance coverage if they don’t.
Walter
LA went through this with Rodney king, and the local community was shocked by the video footage of the beating. NWA and the riots after the trial gave the establishment excuses to shift the blame back to the “hood”.
Also, to “Older”, you’re going on 80? Fantastic that you are rocking the comments.
Tree With Water
There are two reasons that prevent the NFL and the Rams from kissing the ass of those king shit cops. If they thought they could, they would.
#1) FOX sports, and its contract with the NFL. Murdoch is perfectly willing to wage perennial war against phantoms over Christmas etiquette, but he’s not about to declare war on his wallet. Absent his political flunkies whipping up political hysteria on their end, there’s no chance that this story gains the traction it otherwise would. The league and the networks both want this dust up to go away, so they’re doing their level best to ignore it.
#2)The percentage of black players that comprise the league is significant, and it would ruffle their feathers (so to speak). There a some very articulate players already displeased with the Shield, and their collective sense of self respect would demand a counter reaction on their part. Or so I would think.
mclaren
Yes, police have always been composed of sociopaths. Why do you ask?
Unfortunately, all departments and all individual police will protest Obama’s police bodycam proposal — they’ll not only protest, they’ll violently threaten legislators who try to vote for it, and they’ll personally threaten the President and members of the courts if it gets implemented.
Police in America: thug rule. It’s their world, we just live in it (or not, depending on whether the mugger with a badge in question “feels threatened” by our behavior, clothing, speech, skin color, etc.).
The Bobs
@Arclite: No, but the cops who killed that young man in Utah were, and theirs were mysteriously turned off.
felonious
John, to paraphrase Arlo Guthrie, it isn’t that you have to be a bastard to be a cop its just that Police Departments provide a setting for your natural bastardness to come out. The people of Ferguson might be unruly but who wouldn’t be when you live in a community that is constantly harassed by Police. The Police would like to have you believe that the people who they work for are our (those not living in Ferguson) enemies. When the local Police Departments have made the decision that the beat they patrol is lawless then it provides the justification of all sorts of behavior, none of which is policing. I salute the Rams players for showing solidarity with the citizens and it looks like the Rams organization is showing some guts for not falling in lockstep with the official position.
Tree With Water
@mclaren: Obama talked the Chicago PD into filming confessions, and he did that as a lousy state senator. Chicago police have a interesting history, and that was no small feat.
hamletta
@geg6: I saw Jeff Fisher, the Rams’ head coach, giving a press conference, and he was pissed.
The gist of his statement was, “No, the players won’t be sanctioned by the team, nor by the league, and fuck you for asking.”
I always liked him when he was in Nashville.
Heliopause
According to this the actual numbers are $263 million total package, $75 million for half the cost of the cameras.
$150 million divided by 50,000 is $3000 per camera.
“Individual cameras cost between $300 and $400, on top of which are the costs associated with storing and maintaining the data recorded by the devices.”
So, $400 for a device that will be built by semi-slave labor in China for $10 and $2600 for data storage per camera.
Somebody’s making out on this deal.
Tree With Water
@hamletta: Yeah, Fischer’s OK. I’m a Niner fan, and was sorry to see the Rams hire him. For good reason, too, I regret to say. The Ram’s players have racketed up the intensity on both sides of the ball since he took over.
RaflW
Remeber #pointergate a few weeks ago in Minneapolis? That was, at its heart, a police officer attack on the mayor who is pushing a body cam demo on the Police Dept.
I expect most officers to hate body cams, and now that Obama is for them, they’ll be even more tainted. Though they are desperately needed.
grandpa john
@Tree With Water: Also, one should never forget , as the arrogant assholes in SL found out, the NFL Players Union has a lot more clout than the local police union
Gex
Once again, I will point out that the police have decided to take offense at the most submissive gesture a citizen can offer an officer of the law. The gesture symbolizing surrender is offensive to cops now. How on Earth would you try to defuse a tense situation with a cop in St.Louis county these days?
JoyfulA
@srv: Or better still, the military on the side of the revolution. But organized guns are necessary, unfortunately.
Brantl
They have to turn the cameras on, when they start an encounter with a citizen. What makes you think that they will? “I turned the camera on, it just didn’t work!?” (As he stands over a guy that he’s beaten into a bloody puddle.)