Further evidence that cursive sucks:
This morning, I got into a shouting match in the street with a man who was wearing nothing but boxer shorts and topsiders. I was walking my two largish dogs, and a little Jack Russell terrier (who bore a strong resemblance to Rosie) shot out of a yard and began circling my dogs and me and barking furiously.
I was walking right down the middle of the street (it’s okay — I’m white), so it wasn’t like we were invading the micro-dog’s territory, but it kept circling and barking and nipping at us. I didn’t get angry immediately — shit happens, dogs get loose, etc.
But the dog’s owner just stood there in his yard shrieking at his dog instead of picking it up. My dogs were straining at their leashes, and I was afraid one of them might bite the little dog’s head off, so I stopped and held their leashes in a death grip really close to me while I waited for the JRT owner to get his dog. He kept screeching ineffectually.
Finally, I said, fairly politely under the circumstances, “Could you please come over here and control your dog?” And he did shuffle out into the street and shriek at it some more. But he wouldn’t pick it up! So I yelled at him about it, which I kind of feel bad about, but for chrissakes — pick up your 10-pound dog and take it in the fucking house!
Finally I crab-walked my two bristling, growling, slobbering behemoths away until the little JRT lost interest and went home. A bus stop full of middle-schoolers found the whole thing very entertaining.
There are so many more weighty topics to talk about today than ill-trained animals, but I haven’t the heart for it. Please feel free to discuss whatever.
Baud
What’s a Gunt?
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Given the behavior of my neighbor under similar circumstances, you’re lucky he didn’t hit you for the effrontery of walking your dogs on his street and criticizing his for going after yours.
dr. luba
Florida man strikes again.
Betty Cracker
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Sounds like you have a shitty neighbor. I’m not afraid of anyone when I have my dogs with me. Since the guy was in his drawers, I could see he wasn’t packing…
Roger Moore
So you want to change the topic away from police misconduct?
skerry
Eric Holder live press conference in Cleveland re: DOJ police dept probe
Not Adding Much to the Community
@Baud: You don’t really want to know.
Belafon
I want my kids to be able to read cursive, but I just don’t really care if they learn to write it well.
NorthLeft12
That is one thing I miss about waiting for the bus…..sometimes there would be some local entertainment that would provide a good chuckle or two.
BTW I am sure your encounter will be inflated somewhat by those kids when they retell it at school and then at dinner tonight. Not sure how much of a rep you have in your neighbourhood, but I’ll bet it will soon grow to legendary status after this.
Shakezula
Well, since he didn’t shoot your dogs, we can assume he isn’t a police officer.
Bobby Thomson
@Betty Cracker:
Oh myyyyy.
proterozoic
Cursive doesn’t suck, people suck AT cursive.
schrodinger's cat
That’s not how you capitalize A in cursive. Why all the cursive hate. Beautiful handwriting is an art form.
Botsplainer
@Betty Cracker:
You should have shut down your sentence, pointed at it and laughed.
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: I am in awe of your reference.
Louis
Yep, unleashed dogs are a danger and a problem. As are the owners of such who say “Oh, he’s friendly and would never hurt anyone”. Our 90 pound dog is friendly and loves the ears of dogs that run up to her. Especially dogs her size. Yelling at these dopes makes them defensive but does get their attention. If they think I’m crazy, sobeit.
Baud
@Not Adding Much to the Community: @Gin & Tonic:
In all honesty, I didn’t realize it was a real thing until now.
schrodinger's cat
Speaking of handwriting, does anyone use a stylus to write on their IPad. I bought a cheap one and it is not so great for handwriting.
Roger Moore
@proterozoic:
Cursive is obsolete. It’s a form of writing that’s faster when you’re using a dip pen but no faster than printing if you use a ballpoint, felt tip, or even a fountain pen. Teaching people to write in cursive is a waste of time that could better be spent on typing.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Betty Cracker: Do I ever. This guy was stupid and/or drunk enough to threaten my husband while my husband was holding a garden pick.
The police decided the altercation over the dogs didn’t quite qualify for assault, but the guy my neighbor hit was on the HOA board. My neighbor doesn’t dare be late on his dues or otherwise step one toe out of line at this point; he’s already been banned from the pool for threatening the gate attendant.
Tommy
@schrodinger’s cat: Amen. Han ways so ao cool.
Betty Cracker
@schrodinger’s cat: I have one that works pretty well on my iPad. Made by Griffin?
Woodrowfan
so it was not a total waste…
schrodinger's cat
@Betty Cracker: Thanks I will take a look. BTW which handwriting app do you use. I am using the one by MyScript.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@schrodinger’s cat:
Actually, it is. These are the letter forms I learned in third grade. What it isn’t is how one capitalizes an A in the classic calligraphic fonts, which most of the other letters of that phrase are trying to imitate.
KG
had a brief online discussion yesterday with my cousin in miami who had posted something about how common core sucks because they don’t teach cursive and that means young people won’t be able to read historical documents. i pointed out that not many people actually read the hand written version of historical documents – i mean, i’ve seen pictures of the constitution and bill of rights (and might have actually seen the original when i was a kid and visited washington, but as a lawyer, i’ve read those documents a bunch of times in books and online. then it became “well, i write in cursive sometimes and i want my kids to be able to read it” and “it doesn’t take that long to teach” and “they won’t be able to do a signature.” i thought about pointing out that there’s no requirement that a signature be in cursive and that lots of places accept electronic signatures now, including courts. but i let it go because i just didn’t care enough to get into a giant fight about it.
but it did raise an interesting question that i think can be used to make wingnut heads explode a bit. common core doesn’t really require teaching things in any particular way. all the crap about “common core math” is really complaining about “new math” which is just a different way of solving the problems, but it’s not required by the federal government, it’s up to the locals. same with cursive, not required but left up to the locals. so basically, common core is straight up federalism and “letting the locals decide” (with the exception of “you can’t exclude things like evolution and teach genesis as true”). so, here’s the question: why are conservatives opposed to local control of education? isn’t that what they’ve been demanding for decades?
Gin & Tonic
@Baud: Oh. I thought you were making a reference to the gun scene in Take the Money and Run. I withdraw my awe.
KG
@Roger Moore: the evidence actually suggests that whether it’s typing, printing, or writing, it doesn’t really matter as far as learning (you will get faster at whatever you use the most). what matters is that students engage in composition of some sort.
Woodrowfan
@KG: handwriting has changed so much over time that it’s unlikely that even if a kid learned how to read cursive now, that they’d be able to read many old documents without practice, and the older the document the bigger the problem, Hell, in grad school we actually had lessons on how to read old hand-written documents.
Betty Cracker
@schrodinger’s cat: I use Note Taker HD, but I mainly use the stylus for sketching apps and games like Art with Friends.
Baud
@Gin & Tonic:
Wise choice.
beltane
Surprised I didn’t see it here first, but Erick Erickson has a new holiday gifting project this year. He is urging his readers to mail three blue balls to John Boehner’s office because ? http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2014/12/4/12484/9019
Roger Moore
@KG:
I think you got it with
beltane
I’ve always wanted to learn to write in Carolingian Miniscule.
hoodie
It’s not so much ill-trained animals as ill-trained owners. I walk my rescued dog every morning. She’s usually fine, but has fear issues from earlier abuse and is a bit confused in her interactions with other dogs. Every so often we’ll run into a dog whose owner has let him run free out of some misguided notion that he’s doing the dog a favor. They inevitably say “He’s friendly and just wants to play”, requiring a response of “Yeah, but I don’t know whether my dog will play along with your dog or try to rip his throat out, and I can only restrain my dog.”
Roger Moore
@beltane:
I think you misspelled “grifting”. I assume that the reason he’s suggesting this project is “3. Profit”.
proterozoic
@Roger Moore: Yeah, that’s what I thought until I got into web development. Next thing I know, I’m buying steel nibs & india ink to do hand-lettered logos & banners.
Gin & Tonic
@Woodrowfan: I found a postcard written to my mother in my lifetime, in German, that none of my German-speaking friends could read, because it was written in an obsolete cursive hand. One of my friends in Germany had to refer it to another friend to decipher.
schrodinger's cat
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: That’s not how I learned to write the capital a in running hand, but Google seems to agree with you.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Woodrowfan:
Handwriting has changed so much in the last hundred years that someone with sufficient experience can make a pretty good guess as to the age of the writer by the shape of his letters.
Woodrowfan
@Gin & Tonic: oh yeah, old German is a BITCH,. I’ve been working with a German colleague on some German-language newspapers from the early 20th century in the US. whew..
DocSardonic
Bless Erick son of Erick’s pointed little melon…Guess he either doesn’t realize that the song goes 2 blue balls and a hand job in a Fir tree…..or when he drops his pants for arithmetic purposes he can count to 24.
Gin & Tonic
@beltane: Have you also wanted to learn to spell “minuscule” correctly? (Sorry, it was slow and right over the plate.)
skerry
I have to read the cards and letters that my 88 yr old mother-in-law sends to my kids (all young adults). She writes in an odd version of cursive that they cannot decipher. I don’t write like her, but I can read it. They can read my handwriting, just not hers.
Edit: Also, the only “A” I ever received in penmanship was the semester in 4th grade that I spent with my arm in a cast. Pity A. Yes, I am old enough to have gotten penmanship grades.
Woodrowfan
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: never thought of that. Interesting.
Woodrowfan
well, 3 balls is the old sign for a pawnbroker. Maybe Erik Son of Erik is suggesting something about pawnshops?> or maybe he’s just an idiot..
Roger Moore
@Gin & Tonic:
Interesting, because I learned Sütterlin in my German class. Of course that might be related to my German teacher having been born in Germany in 1933, which meant that’s what she was taught in school.
beltane
@Gin & Tonic: Ha, I didn’t have my reading glasses on. I’ve officially reached the age where I have no idea what I’m reading or writing without my glasses.
schrodinger's cat
One of the major Indian languages, Marathi (spoken by people of Maharashtra, the state that Mumbai/Bombay is the capital of) has a cursive version, which has become completely obsolete now since it fell out of favor when printing became wide spread. Not many people can read or write it now. Most people write Marathi in Devanagari, which is the script for both Sanskrit and Hindi, as well.
ETA: Some hobbyists are trying to revive the script by teaching it to people for free.
scav
Just throwing this into the mix, there seems to be some research into the brain and all the different forms of producing and reading text. Nicely complex and there may be benefits in being schooled in multiple methods although only relying primarily on one: Too Soon to Declare Handwriting a Relic of the Past
Gin & Tonic
@Roger Moore: Sounds like she just got the tail end of it. It’s actually not that easy to find people who can read it comfortably now.
jonas
This thread should not continue without noting this episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTV1xtcUD0o
Arclite
Spelling is in the eye of the beholder.
schrodinger's cat
@scav: I have been on a fountain pen kick since the last year. I love writing with them, so much better than gel pens and ball point ones.
Cacti
Terriers are satan.
Still better than Chihuahuas though.
skerry
2014 St. Louis Person of the Year Preliminary Voting – St Louis Mayor Slay’s website. The list reflects an interesting outlook on the year St. Louis has had. I voted for IKEA.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Roger Moore: I also learned Sütterlin in high school. My German teacher was a Sudetenlander just barely old enough to remember her mother frantically hiding the portrait of Hitler as the Allied troops rolled into town.
FlyingToaster
@KG: They’re objecting to the tests. They don’t know that, but that’s what they’re objecting to.
Common Core is functionally a ratings system for educational materials. WarriorGirl’s [private] school uses various materials, some with Common Core ratings, some pre-dating the system. So her first grade reading group is reading from a third grade level reader. She and two of her classmates are playing with multiplication; a lot of what they’re doing comes out of a second grade text.
But since it’s a private school, they don’t do any standardized testing. Under Massachusetts law, schools which do not accept public money cannot access the MCAS. And the MCAS is a Common Core test.
If the people objecting to Common Core want to change things, they need to get their gooper representatives to repeal the CC/NCLB/RTTT testing regimens. Which will never happen.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@FlyingToaster: In some cases, they’re objecting to the materials their state selected. If the school is teaching the kids a way to do multiplication and division that makes no sense to you, if you can’t help them with their homework, then you’re probably going to object.
schrodinger's cat
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: I don’t what they are doing in school but many college students have atrocious algebra skills.
trollhattan
@schrodinger’s cat:
Dunno but the function works pretty darn well on my Galaxy Note. Even the conversion to text can generally handle my crappy script, but I often leave the notes in their original scrawl, as they’re usually just for my use.
I don’t know whether it would be robust enough for, say, taking lecture notes but it could well be better than click-clacking on the keyboard, trying to keep up with the prof.
KG
@FlyingToaster: interesting, my niece is in first grade at a good public school and is already learning cursive, which surprised me. actually, a lot of what she’s learning surprised me because it seems more in line with what i was doing later in school. i haven’t paid too much attention to education issues since i don’t have kids and haven’t been in school in a while, so i guess the question is whether the tests are stupid or not?
gelfling545
Some considerations on hand writing & cursive.
Another Holocene Human
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: The Religious Right is actually objecting to what they always object to in education which has nothing to do with math (sure, less religious kneejerk stupid wingers can screech about it, but they aren’t bankrolling this DERP or spreading it on hate radio) but all the usual stuff about the history curriculum, science education that’s not god-addled, social studies not as colonialist dreck, critical thinking–I dunno if that is in Common Core but critical thinking or “reasoning” or whatever cover they try to sneak it in these days is one of their biggest issues, it’s why the Holy Rollers threw a tantrum about public schools in Appalachia in the 1970s.
The testing regime is bullshit but usually mandated by the GOP to pay off their buddies. In Florida because of exactly that public/private divide it’s used to take money away from public schools. In a stunning turn of dishonesty they’re going to test kids on Common Core prior to CC being implemented. All their school career they’ve been tested to the former Florida mandatory tests. It’s about money (tests) and privatizing schools (more money, plus you attack unions). The teachers have NO problem with CC curriculum itself.
So to sum up: if they’re made about the curriculum, look deeper. It is probably cultural conservatives, ie some sort of conservative white Christian movement which is really really pissed about kids learning stuff that isn’t propaganda
If they’re mad about the tests there’s probably a damn good reason. How much relief will be available depends on individual state politics
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@schrodinger’s cat: I was thinking earlier. One thing that’s always brought up around here is the Rectangle Sections Method, which is fourth grade arithmetic.
trollhattan
@Cacti:
Heh, friends “fostered” a dumped chi-hua-hua and naturally, adopted the thing. It’s actually not as nervous and yappy as many, but beware when at their house because the little fvcker will wander in and pee on the ladies’ purses.
“It’s MINE now, be-yotches!”
We must be in weird times, as the shelters are filled with nothing but pitbulls and chihuahuas. Numerous homeless denizens have one of each.
skerry
DOJ report on Cleveland PD. It will be interesting to see what happens to the police who killed Tamir Rice given this investigation, the surveillance video and the police officer’s own reports.
gwangung
@skerry: There is a sizable, non-zero chance there will still be no indictments….
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat: In many schools only the honors math track learns much algebra. It’s pretty sad.
US math instruction has very low expectations and once you leave elementary school they’ve gone to these survey course textbooks that I think have very low learning value. Just flit from superficial topic to superficial topic, learn enough to pass a test and forget. I think actually the Chinese math learning model may be superior. Also, US didn’t always teach math this way but the textbook companies gotta get paid, so here we are. I went to a school run by Yankees (pinch that thin dime!) and we were still using this (much more lightweight) Euclid-based geometry text from the 60s (written by a woman–oh yeah, one author, imagine that–and there were no mistakes in the problem sets!!!) that was really great. I can’t remember a damn thing from those back breakers we had in the grades before and after. (Some of the teachers did decent lectures, thankfully–it was not the book.)
Lot of confusion about how to transition from slide rule to calculators and computers and I think a lot of kids got a shit math education as a result.
US good math education is VERY good (our teams win Olympiads) but the average math education sucks. As a math minor/physics major who went into a field that’s not full of science majors (but should have some engineers, lol) I was completely floored at the lack of basic math skills by my colleagues and even though I was shaky on stats I was like the stats wizard for the whole office because I could run some stuff in Excel. Actually some blue collar workers have better math skills simply because they are required to bone up on that stuff to pass their licensing exams (depends on the field, obviously).
I did an IB program and you can escape HS with an IB degree with, like, basically no math. Freaking joke.
Another Holocene Human
@KG: They go a lot of faster in good schools. More resources, higher expectations, but probably a lot less disruption or severely behind kids per classroom, the latter has to do with poverty.
Still, when kids are ready to do more, it’s better to do more. Push them. They’ll surprise you.
schrodinger's cat
@Another Holocene Human: You are right, the good students are very good, the rest just fall through the cracks.
Just One More Canuck
@Baud: It’s one of those things you probably could have lived you entire life quite happily without knowing about
jake the antisoshul soshulist
Hey, Betty, wbat about the Gators’ new coach?
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Another Holocene Human: The Religious Right is objecting to what they’ve always objected to: desegregation. That’s the core issue that they formed around, that they founded their shitty private schools for, and that they hated then and still hate Carter for. Common Core is just one more liberal conspiracy in the war to destroy their church schools.
I had a front row seat for most of it. Discussions during gatherings of extended family always ended up on the subject; I had family that worked for the Southern Baptist Convention.
Another Holocene Human
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: IDK. My friends and I were watching a Youtube video of Lehrer’s New Math and while he goes comically fast, we were kind of sneering because it’s exactly how we were talk to do math. There are a lot of ways to approach certain math problems, and the more you learn, the more you master. It’s not that hard to learn it with the kind unless your brain is less open to instruction than that of a 3rd grader. The way they’re teaching right now isn’t particularly revolutionary and it certainly isn’t dumb. For all old people brag about memorizing tables if that taught you to hate and fear any calculation method not involving rote memorization you know I don’t know what to say. At some point, in fact very quickly, you need more than times tables out to 12.
IQs are rising. That’s a good thing. Kids need to have math skills for the post industrial world. Guess what, there are tons of free videos online now to help with math skills even if the textbook is garbage. Brave new world.
Tenar Darell
@schrodinger’s cat: I’ve used the moderately priced to the cheap ones. The moderately priced versions were as long as 3+ years ago, the cheaper ones since then. I got one that looked like a fat pencil similar to a Bluecell stylus on Amazon. Because I write at a slant, the tip started to come off in one direction. I’ve used at least one Griffin, where the tip got tacky enough that it stopped sliding smoothly over the surface of the iPad. Then I started using cheaper ones from the $5 store. Usually with a pen on one side and a “rubber” stylus tip. (iHome brand, I think). They work decently, and are cheap enough that I don’t get ticked off if I lose one, or it stops working well. If I was drawing or illustrating or doing calligraphy, I would probably get a much better stylus with fine point control, like Pencil or Bamboo or one of the other pricey/expensive ones.
I also use NotesPlus as my notebook app. I can handwrite notes easily in this app. It was so good 3+ years ago, it’s one of the only ones I’ve ever paid full price for! I used it for note-taking. Though I never needed the handwriting conversion add-on, I gather it’s pretty good from reviews. It’s still being updated regularly, I can recommend it.
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
@Another Holocene Human: Math is hard.
I think the multiple algorithm approach is a wonderful thing, myself. Some of it reminds me a lot of the techniques I came up with to keep signs and units straight. Never dared let a teacher see them, though; I learned early that not doing it in a Approved Way would get me in trouble.
I’m just old enough to have been forbidden calculators in college engineering classes and just young enough that my professors’ jaws dropped when I asked about using a slide rule instead.
Johnk
If we had a dog park I would work on training my dogs to be non reactive to other dogs. For now, I know who the unpredictable one is and I put him on a leach or we increase distance. He doesn’t have a problem with the large serious dogs like ridgebacks but I am very cautious around all others. We can play on the beach without incident but sometimes I have to call him back because he looks like he is going to go off on a dog. No way I want to risk a run in with animal control or the cops.
Sometimes keeping the dogs close or on a leash is necessary especially around wildlife (deer, bear, cougar, porcupine, coyote), poison or invasive plants, poisonous snakes, fur trapping season, hunters, idiots with guns, park rangers with citation books, people who are fearful or hate dogs, and what not.
My lab doodle is home bound for a week because she injured a paw while off leash crashing through the brush playing chase with the other dogs. Makes it hard to take the dogs out because it breaks her heart to be left home.
Betty Cracker
@jake the antisoshul soshulist: On paper, he sounds like a great hire! Looking forward to seeing what he can do to turn the poor Gators around. I’m just relieved they went with an offense-side guy with a proven track record and SEC experience.
Another Holocene Human
IMO HS math used to waste time on filler to teach old school skills that the computer has made obsolete. Still need Euclidean geometry, to teach proofs, do a little non-Euclidean to make the point, but just enough weird solids to show how cumbersome geometry techniques are for practical applications, then whip out The Calculus. Start in 10th grade. (Trig should start in 8th and be progressive–teaching Phys w/o trig is ridiculous, and phys should precede chem which should precede bio, not bio-chem-phys as shitty high schools do to try to squeak as many as possible under state completion requirements) None of this saving calc for college. Traditional HS math spent a lot of time on stupid shit that has absolutely no payoff later in life or later in your academic career, like fucking around with ellipses. I spent 5 months on that shit. Complete waste of time. We didn’t even do that stuff in Math Team, that’s how irrelevant it was. And they called it “pre-calc”. More like filler. Calculus is huge in lots of academic fields and also in a lot of careers at least on a basic level. It’s also more fun when you can go straight from crazy Euclidean methods to calc volumes of rotation and be all like, bam! Done! This shit works! And then you might actually understand some fucking physics before somebody hands you a learner’s permit and begs you not to kill anybody. Now that’s some fucking practical math!
Betty Cracker
@Johnk: Poor lab-doodle! One of my dogs is unpredictable around other dogs. I only take her to the dog park when it’s empty.
schrodinger's cat
@Another Holocene Human: I remember conic sections, hyperbola, parabola and ellipse. BORING.
ETA: I also don’t get the point of teaching intro physics without calculus? WTF is that about?
Another Holocene Human
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: I was in a group where they hadn’t figured out that TI made more than one calculator and some of the fancier ones let you do programming so a few rich nerds actually wrote software to do problems for them and they waltzed right into the testing room with them.
Math is easy … Literature is hard. Math takes 0 maturity which is why you see very young prodigies. Not so with prose, poetry. Sometimes you have somebody with maturity and writing skills but it’s rare. Most of the kids in the class are actually learning a skill called “BS”.
It’s sad, though, if you have to hide stuff from a math teacher because the math teacher is an ignoramus. One issue I do have with teacher’s unions was that they decided to make this deal about more education = more pay and putting barriers to entry for all teachers, not just elementary and middle grades. It’s become very difficult for people to go from industry to high school teaching even though the teacher’s college grads mostly suck at math and their science is way out of date. The industry to teaching hires I had weren’t the best teachers ever but they knew the subject so well and were motivated so it didn’t matter because we learned tons. The teacher’s teachers who did math or science crashed and burned because they couldn’t teach what they didn’t know despite being great at “teaching” and so kind, empathetic, etc, etc. I saw very bright classmates have meltdowns in that class. I asked for more info after class got an explanation of sorts and then he looks in the back of the book and is like, that’s not the right answer. Huh. Whereas the Chem teacher who had difficulties communicating with the human race got us through the equivalent of Freshman Chem in 10th grade with better labs.
Sorry to hear you were stifled.
My dad is really bright but always had trouble with signs because his handwriting is so terrible he can’t read what he just wrote lololol.
Another Holocene Human
@schrodinger’s cat: Conic sections are marginally useful, also learning how to do projections (which is actually more powerful if you do it with computer rather than pencil and paper). But yeah, mostly boring, mostly special cases (what the FUCK is the point of doing special cases if they’re not boundary conditions?), mostly giant waste of students’ time.
Funny thing is, a lot of kids THINK trig and calc were wastes of time … no … not really.
We did freshman phys in our HS without any trig never mind calc. Actually you can start w/o calc. No trig is ridic. We were bright kids, we got workbooks and started learning trig on our own. It wasn’t that fucking hard which really made us wonder why the school wanted to hold us back. (We’re talking about stupid box-on-wedge problems, we would do 45deg, 30deg but no other angles because they didn’t want to utter the words sine and cosine.)
8th grade algebra was torpid due to lousy survey course textbook. Through that shit out, go back to some conceptual stuff. Why are you introducing the “function” without explaining why the fuck you want to USE functions and not just map stuff on graph paper??? Took me YEARS to figure out what the hell that was about. I just wanted to plot circles on a grid, functions seemed dumb. They really just want you to memorize to the test and move on. AND LEARN NOTHING.
Another Holocene Human
I think sometimes just STARTING a subject with a shitty difficult method and then switching to the easier method is a great way of teaching a) there is more than one way to do problems and b) why we learn the other method. Getting to do stuff the new way makes you feel really smaahhhht so also c) self esteem. (The real kind not the NPD nonsense.)
Another Holocene Human
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: It’s a powerful motivating force but the more true believers among the Xtians are also very het up about evolution because they for some reason think that their Xtian faith will shatter without their just-so Creation story. Having run up against these sorts repeatedly, while there are MANY Christians for whom it’s just a tribe (and SBC are kind of emblematic of this) there are a not insignificant number of “non-denominational” (this is bullshit, btw) evangelical fundamentalists with a great fear of cognitive dissonance who really, truly believe they can make their kids pure and continue to control them forever as long as they don’t learn about Evil-ution.*
I think the internet has fucked their game up a lot, though. Talk.origins archive, and so on. That particular religious movement is faltering for various reasons … whereas the racists are noisier than ever, so it’s easy to pretty much just see it as that.
The people I’m talking about are in a very closed world … Santorum (who isn’t even an evangelical) is probably one of the more visible examples of their mindset. They have “worldly” media on ignore.
*-having lost in court they now want to homeschool, as opposed to sending kids to Xtian schools, that’s for people with more money and a less obsessive attitude towards religion, frankly
gvg
Common Core is not local control. It seems to be state level and it is arbitrary. There are an infinate number of tests. I hate that. The taught methods seem to be dumb and too fast. !st grade kid being taught a new math technique every week and he hasn’t mastered the last week. He thinks he is dumb because he doesn’t get everything. I was always good in math and I don’t get some of it. Currently they are emphasizing “knowing their doubles” which are 1+1=2 2+2=4 etc. Then using those to do other math like 7+7+1=15. Why? How is this really different than memorizing the basic additions. How does it speed things up or increase understanding. Next week they are teaching how to “break” down numbers to “use” 10. So 7+5….7+3=10 and 5-3=2 and 10+2=12 therefore 7+5=12. 3 steps instead of 1. Why? I do things like that sometimes but I started later when I was more comfortable with the basic math and no longer had to count out what 7+3 were. He is supposed to understand this extra concept and do it on command and write out each of the 3 steps. Idiotic. He has really liked using a number line and if he is allowed to do that more, I think he will get the concepts fixed in his head and get faster and less afraid. How is this supposed to be a good idea? This is first grade.
The tests they use are chosen according to bribes to the top state officials not scientific proof they actually measure the subject mastery. There are too many of them and the naturally bad results are used to take away public school money and give it to private schools which don’t use the tests and don’t really have to prove they are any good.
A lot of it was happening before common core but CC has made it worse. Schools are reacting with panic and ignoring parents even more.
It appears to me common core didn’t have a tough editor. Everyone had strong ideas about what ALL children should know and they put it all in, then couldn’t agree on what had to come out because the total is just huge.
I do think that the Florida school year and day are just too short. They get out at 1:20, 12:20 on Wendsday from 7:45. Our school year is too short, to much time for kids to forget (studies show) and also frankly it means poor parents have to pay more in day care. If the days were longer and more, the curriculum would be more doable. As it is it’s kind of hopeless. We aren’t a farming economy anymore and there is no reason not to update the school calender. Oh except the money to pay teachers…
schrodinger's cat
@Another Holocene Human: I am talking about Intro Physics classes taught to life sciences and premed majors, not high school physics. The concept of functions and limits were introduced in my high school calculus class.
Gin & Tonic
@Another Holocene Human: The teacher’s teachers who did math or science crashed and burned because they couldn’t teach what they didn’t know
It seems to be “common knowledge”, although I don’t know how true it was, actually, that mid-1960’s USA “New Math” (the only elementary math that ever had actual mathematics behind it) crashed and burned because the average elementary school teacher of the time was simply too dumb to teach it, and resisted learning actual math in order to understand it.
MaryRC
@Roger Moore: I was about to say. Remember when Erick urged his readers to send rock salt to Olympia Snowe as a sign of their disapproval? And, oh, just look, you could buy rock salt through his Amazon store, what a coinkydink. I’m not going to click on his blog to check but I’m willing to bet that whatever he wants these fools to buy, he plans to sell it to them.
Mike E
The Simpsons did an episode where Lisa sought after school tutoring to learn handwriting. Heh.
Pogonip
@Gin & Tonic: That was my experience. I was a New Math victim and the teacher didn’t understand it any better than I did. My parents were also lost once it got into the really esoteric stuff, and my mom solved algebra problems for fun, and my dad could calculate artillery trajectories and such (not for fun), so it’s not as if they were innumerate.
gene108
@Roger Moore:
I disagree. I believe cursive is essential with a fountain pen, because ever time you pick the pen up and put it down you may end up with splotches. Picking up the pen and putting it down for every letter will cause problems, especially if the nib gets worn out and starts dripping ink.
PurpleGirl
One day when I was walking three blocks down to a little grocery store I had the Doberman pinscher with me. As we approached one corner I saw a dog was loose from a certain house. I crossed the street and the other dog began coming toward us. I stopped, Hugo stopped and looked at me and I told him to ignore the other dog and we began walking again. Hugo was so well trained to obey certain commands that he did ignore the dog and we continued on without incident. The other dog’s owner came out and called his dog back to his side.
As to that font: Way too short on vertical for the “A”. Whoever designed the card was too taken with the curliness to read it as if they received it. Designer fail.
Mnemosyne
@Another Holocene Human:
As someone who still doesn’t get math to this day thanks in part to shitty teaching, I have to disagree with you. If you have a student who absolutely does not get one method of working a problem, you need to show them a different way as soon as you can, because spending weeks trying to figure out the shitty method wastes everyone’s time. Not to mention that, at least in my case, I wasn’t allowed to move on and learn different methods until I’d learned the first, shitty method, which means I never moved on at all.
/Trigonometry Dropout
gene108
@schrodinger’s cat:
So people have a basic understanding of physics.
Not everyone on the planet needs to know calculus.
Sort of like why does the engineer need to take literature class?
General understanding of other subjects is not a bad thing.
gene108
@gvg:
Don’t know why, but my niece who is in 2nd grade is learning math this way. She can add up more in her head than I could at that age.
NotMax
Still use the “final r” and “final t” (example alphabet) drummed into us in grade school when writing using cursive.
Confuses the heck out of the youngs. Good.
PurpleGirl
@gene108:
Sort of like why does the engineer need to take literature class?
General understanding of other subjects is not a bad thing.
My sister started college at the Fashion Institute of Technology (FIT). She dropped out at the start of her sophomore year for just that reason — she didn’t see why she needed history, biology or literature classes if she was majoring in interior design and wanted to be a furniture buyer. I, on the other hand, welcomed the chance to sample lots and lots of different courses. I started as a chemistry major and didn’t last because of problems with mathematics. But I changed majors to Political Science, took a bunch of physics (for non-majors), Ancient Middle East cultures and religions, comparative religions, English Lit (Shakespeare survey, the two term course), etc. I didn’t mind NYU’s Area Distribution Requirements at all.
JustRuss
@gene108: Indeed. It’s a stupid, cumbersome way to add single digits, but when you’re working with larger numbers it’s da bom. I was never taught to add that way, but just started doing it intuitively when I was a kid..which was a pretty long time ago.
FlyingToaster
@KG: Good schools, public and private, do a lot of “track these kids together in this subject and keep moving” strategies. My 6th grade teacher did this, clear back in the 70s.
A sign of a good school is when kids who master a topic early are given more in that topic to do. A sign of a bad one is when they send you to the principal’s office for being bored.
Tree With Water
B.C.- Look at it this way. You made that little dog’s day. Tonight it’s dreaming a little doggie dream of being a true bad ass, who toyed with your dogs and spared their lives.
schrodinger's cat
@gene108: To truly understand physics you do need calculus. So yes premeds should absolutely take physics but it should be calculus based.
skwerlhugger
Rather than rant about ill-trained animals, how about inappropriate dog owners creating mentally-ill dogs? There’s way more dogs in this country as there were decades ago, and there should be fewer with modern lifestyles. If you don’t have the location, lifestyle or responsibility to be the alpha dog to your pack (a 24/7 commitment without vacations), get a Furby. Ranchers, maybe farmers, golf course greenskeepers with a Canada Goose problem.
Epicurus
@jonas: You beat me to it! I do wish they would bring the show back, but Mr. David is now apparently the author of a Broadway-bound play. I think I must go see it….