Latest CNN poll has Elizabeth Warren at 4% with nonwhite voters in Dem primary. http://t.co/e8PZDN4HuA
— Josh Barro (@jbarro) December 10, 2014
If the Dem nominee were chosen by northeastern whites who use the term "progressive" instead of "liberal," Warren would give Clinton a fight
— Josh Barro (@jbarro) December 10, 2014
Disclaimer: I think Elizabeth Warren is awesome. Her election as my Senator was one of the few political bright spots of the past few years for me, and I’m looking forward to her using her expertise on financial matters to fight the banksters and their enablers for many, many more years.
I also think that if MoveOn.org really wants to improve the odds of electing a progressive president in 2016, they should stop cranking out emails encouraging 81.3% of the respondents to wish for something that’s not gonna happen, and concentrate their efforts on finding and supporting other fighting progressive Democratic politicians who are actually interested in running. Because if the sole, single, solitary progressive still standing is eligible for Social Security, us poor Dems are in even worse straits than I thought.
Speaking of which, Dr. Howard “Fifty-States-Strategy” Dean just threw down a gauntlet, or threw in his cards. Per Politico, “I’m Ready for Hillary“:
Hillary Clinton is by far the most qualified person in the United States to serve as President. If she runs, I will support her…
One of the most important reasons I am supporting her is because Secretary Clinton understands the institutional requirements of the Supreme Court. More than 73 percent of Americans think the Supreme Court is no longer a fair arbitrator and is influenced by political considerations. I am one of those 73 percent. This Court has repeatedly made decisions that have harmed our country for the sake of extending a political and ideological agenda that is far outside the mainstream of American traditions—on issues like campaign finance, voting rights, the rights of women, and religious freedom…
Finally, although the statistics suggest the economy is improving, over 60% of Americans aren’t feeling good about their own situation. Nearly all of the gains in the past fifteen years have bypassed the vast majority of Americans, while the holdings of the top 20% have increased dramatically. This is a fundamental disparity that will be the greatest challenge our next President must tackle—how to reestablish a commitment to all of us to restore the opportunity to live and achieve the American Dream.
Hillary Clinton will not shrink from this challenge. In the coming months, I expect her to lay out her plans to attack income inequality and help rebuild the middle class. She knows how to sell a broad range of Americans on these policies, and has shown how to stand up against extremist economic policies.
America needs a President who will focus on the next hundred years, not one who hopes to turn the clock back by a hundred years. I am sure I will have disagreements with her as she focuses on getting Americans back to work and rebuilding an America that works for all of us. I value and respect her enough that whatever differences may exist will be minimal compared to the tasks we really need to do for the good of restoring our country. We need a mature, seasoned, thoughtful leader at a time when maturity and thoughtfulness are increasingly rare commodities in Washington, D.C…
Apart from getting out the earplugs (and maybe the disposable plastic ponchos), what’s on the agenda for the day?
We’re getting a new roof, and work is supposed to commence today. Of course, the dumpster and materials were supposed to arrive yesterday and didn’t, so maybe it’s not happening as scheduled.
I work at home, so my office mates are two dogs and a hedgehog. The dogs are expected to bark hysterically from the moment the roofers arrive until the second they depart. I will probably find that disruptive. The hedgehog will likely remain silent but will have more cause to complain than anyone, being that he’s nocturnal.
As for Howard Dean’s endorsement of HRC, I’m not surprised — he’s a long-time supporter. If she’s the party’s nominee, I’ll support her wholeheartedly. But I have my reservations about her candidacy, which were the same reservations that caused me to support then-Senator Obama instead of HRC in 2008: her hawkishness and friendliness with Wall Street.
HRC’s Iraq vote lost me in 2008, but she’s owned up to the fact that it was a mistake, and good for her. But from what I’ve read about her tenure as SoS, she was consistently more pro-intervention than Obama, who is more pro-intervention than I think is wise, so I’ll be interested to hear what HRC has to say on that score once she announces.
I still have concerns about HRC on the economic policy front. I’m not one of the voters who automatically attribute her [HRC’s] husband’s views to HRC. But I think income inequality is THE biggest issue we face as a nation, and while HRC is talking the talk now, she hasn’t always walked the walk, so I’ll be interested in seeing detailed policy proposals.
It was 40F in Miami when I got up this morning, which means I’m going to see my co-workers bundled up like Inuits and some interesting clothing combinations. I wore my Toledo Mud Hens warm-up jacket just to set the fashion for the office.
I too really like Sen. Warren, but I also take her at her word that she’s not running.
@Mustang Bobby: Dang, it’s colder there than it is here in coastal Central FL! (It’s 46 here.) Have cold-stunned iguanas rained down from the trees?
@Betty Cracker: You missed the renovation thread last night.
Stay away from Joe this morning.
Board them for the day. Your sanity will demand nothing less.
i stay away from joe every morning.
@Betty Cracker: Not that I could see, but it was still dark when I left the house. I didn’t hear any thuds on the roof overnight, though.
@tybee: If I could run out and cast a line I would too!
@raven: What, he’s calling Mark Udall un-American for calling out the C.I.A. for lying? He’s giving Donny Deutsch a hand-job on the weather set?
@Mustang Bobby: It’s the basic puke party line in spades. “context”
eta, well shit, he’s citing Politifacts, I’m won over.
@Botsplainer: My dogs are unboardable, unfortunately. Maybe they’ll bark themselves hoarse within the first few hours.
Renovation hell? Ask the Crash Test Dummies!
@Betty Cracker: Marrow bones from Publix?
I am not sure that there would have been profound legislative differences between the output of the real Obama presidency and what would have happened as a result of a Hillary Clinton presidency.
One upside, is the Hillary Clinton has a lot more information now than either she or Barak Obama had in 2008 – a seeming lifetime’s worth of new data. And I think that of the two, she seems to be better able to adapt and put that data to good use.
We will see, and the usual caveats apply.
@raven: If the CIA report had been about what had gone on under a Democratic president, especially the current one, Joe and the rest of the Orcosphere would be calling for impeachment and stoning in the public square.
And at the risk of going Godwin, didn’t Burt Lancaster use the “context” defense in Judgment at Nuremberg? It didn’t work on Spencer Tracy, either.
@raven: That’s a damn fine idea!
@Betty Cracker: Do yourself a favor Betty, LEAVE. With or without the dogs but leave. The pounding alone will give you a migraine.
@OzarkHillbilly: I’m thinking headphones and a rain soundtrack. I may decamp once the mister gets home from work, but I’ve been advised by several people that roofers bear watching and that at least one homeowner should be onsite during the project.
Of course, they could tear off my current shingled roof and install a retractable dome, and I wouldn’t realize what was happening until they tested the sliding mechanism. But perhaps my mere presence will curb the worst of their excesses. Or perhaps not!
I’ve got a dead tree in front of my door. I’ve told the landlord 2 times that it needs to be cut down. The storm that is going through the Bay Area now will be here tonight. We’re supposed to get lots of rain, yes I”m thankful, and gusty winds. I’m really afraid the damn tree is going to fall down. I will not be sleeping much tonight/tomorrow morning.
@Betty Cracker: Heh, a roofer’s reputation precedes them!
I’ll say again, I use those terms interchangeably (although partial to “liberal”). I’m sure that angers some political scientist somewhere.
I finished “The Girl That Kicked the Hornets Nest” a few days ago & yo’re right,the first book is the best one. The third would have been twice as good if it were half as long, a lot of extraneous story lines that had nowhere to go. But the real reason I am post this for you was I was wrong about Larrson being involved in anti-rape work but in anti-fascist stuff. I was thinking of someone else & his fixation that all bad guys also hapened to be rapists and/or pediphiles made me conect the two people. By the time the evil doctor was exposed as also a pediphile It was expected.
I don’t see Sen Warren running and if she did, I don’t see her winning. And she is needed in the Senate. At some point in the future, this may change, but I’d much prefer her in the Senate for now (not that Hillary or any candidate would not benefit from a real race).
I began 2007 expecting to vote for HRC in the Dem primary the next year. By summer, I was thinking this new guy was interesting and really could win. Like Betty, HRC’s Iraq vote lost me and I was happy to vote for BHO in the primary and the general election. I have not agreed with everything he has said/done, but he has accomplished some great things.
Just FYI, north shore swells of 20 to 30 feet tonight.
@BillinGlendaleCA: Take care.
@Mustang Bobby: Have you finished the puzzle? I have a question on one of the clues that would not spoil the fun of doing the puzzle for others.
@JPL: Last Sunday’s NY Times? Yeah. Made one little printo.
@Keith G: I don’t think Clinton could have passed healthcare reform with all of the mockery about “Hillary Care.”
@Mustang Bobby: Today’s. I do the puzzle online and I can’t figure out why arts and crafts e.g. abbr. is plu. I know the answer is correct because you get a happy pencil. My obsessiveness is showing. haha
Of course this is the day I pick to fly out to San Francisco.
@JPL: Thanks, I hope he’ll cut the tree down today. I’m not betting on it.
@raven: This is why you never hire an Asgardian to do your home renovation.
@JPL: Hm, that’s a good question. Remember, though, that the Thursday puzzle is often one with a gimmick that goes beyond the scope of the normal crossword, so without actually doing it and knowing with the gimmick is, I’m stumped. I’ll print it out later (when I’m not at work) and get back to you.
For any Juicers or lurkers who ordered over the weekend, all packages shipped either yesterday or are shipping today! Woo-hoo! Watergirl has been teasing me via email about how busy I sound.
And about beard oil… Thanks dance around for making that an unforgettable subject!
Seattle and Cali have crazy flooding. Wow have things changed for the Left Coast in the past few weeks. Drought? What drought?
I go with the Octonauts for my 6:00 am wake up T.V. on Disney. More informative and educational than Morning Joe can ever hope to be.
@NotMax: Wonder if they’ll throw up a contest?
eta Mavericks out to be pumpin too.
1. One of the problems for the Democrats in power and holding the Presidency is just the fact that a President is the Chief Executive of the National Defense Establishment, an entity that in the five generations since WWII, through the Cold War and Post Cold-War world has become an “interest” itself. The DoD, CIA, FBI, NSA, etc. become “his (or her) people” and he inherits the policies and consequences his predecessors decisions whether he (or she) agreed with them or not. Obama, for instance, really has no good choices about Iraq and Syria right now. One is a slow war of attrition against ISIS and Al Quaeda in Iraq or Syria while Kurds and Shia forces get their act together, or allow the formation of militant, Sunni, terror state whose raison d’etre will be fighting and killing Americans.
2. And of course, it is a huge economic interest as well, with major corporations and elite individuals becoming very rich on enterprises that use about 5% to 6% of U.S. Economy when you add up DoD, DHS, Dept. of State, USAID, and the Intelligence Agencies. This of course is what Eisenhower warned and prophesied about in his farewell address (and then unfortunately completely sabotaged his own message by becoming a hawkish critic of his Democratic successors, urging them in private to greater military intervention and force against North Vietnam. (http://whitehousetapes.net/clip/lyndon-johnson-dwight-eisenhower-lbj-and-eisenhower-bombing-north-vietnam). So a Democratic President, almost by definition, will disappoint anti-interventionist and pro-disarmament liberals and progressives, while still be savagely criticized by Republicans and Conservatives as “weak” and “surrendering.”
3. I would like a progressive Democrat to run against Hilary. Alan Grayson is only a congressman, but he has the ego for it and he would be younger than Bernie Saunders. Jim Webb may have some baggage I don’t like on feminist and gender issues, but he also has at least a skeptical take on intervention and believes in a progressive economic agenda. One thing to remember about Webb was his last major cause in the Senate was sentencing reform for non-violent drug offenses, which is a major civil rights issue.
@JPL: plu==plural. ArtS and craftS.
Stupid and silly, but that’s hardly unusual.
Ugh. The odious Lanny Davis writing at the odious The Hill on why he’s “ready for Hillary:”
Well, maybe, but Christ on a Triscuit, Lanny Davis would be among the last people I’d trust to assess those qualities in another human being. If HRC does run, I hope one of her operatives gets a clue and slaps a ball-gag on that noxious little ferret Davis.
@Lurking Canadian: Oh, that is one of those that makes me throw the puzzle across the room.
Seconded. I’ll support Clinton if she’s the nominee, maybe even enthusiastically, but for now I’d like to find someone a little less hawkish and a little more reliably pro-99%.
Joe complaining senate intelligence committee report is as shoddy as Brown/Garner/Rolling Stone investigations.
I suspect that is an accurate view of how the Obama admin sees it, but I think it’s a false dichotomy. The nutters in the Middle East / AfPak region are only focused on killing Americans because they see us meddling in regional affairs, and that’s about the only issue on which they have a point. Perhaps if we were truly out of the way, they’d get on with their long-overdue reckoning with each other.
@bemused: it will probably come to light that they rectally fed that guy four times, not three, thus calling the credibility of the whole report into question.
@Lurking Canadian: f…….. Thanks. I was going in all kinds of directions such as arts and crafts movement and could not figure out why it was plu.
@Betty Cracker: This is an article about the Koch brothers latest endeavor.
You might write a post later because it does appear that it’s not getting much attention.
@JPL: yeah, they do that kind of cheap crap pretty often, where you’re going all lateral thinking like “Odysseus…cyclops…one eye…SOLO?” and actually it’s “Odysseus. Starts with a big O”. Usually they put that question mark if the clue is about the word, (that is the sign, not the signified) but not always.
It’s really hard to not see the whole Ready for Warren enterprise (and it’s spinoffs at MoveOn, DFA, PCCC) as a grift.
She’s not interested in running and even if she were, she’s not interested in running against Clinton. The whole thing is delusional. People outside of DC, sure, you like Warren and you want to see her run. I get that and that’s fine. But the people running this shit are in DC and fucking know better.
If this were about finding a liberal alternative to Clinton, they’d be finding people who actually want to run. Instead, they’re just fundraising off a dream.
Joe is a menace. Does PBS still run that morning yoga program? We should all switch and spend our mornings doing downward facing dog. We’d be a lot happier.
I watched 5 minutes of former CIA director James Woolsey on tweetie last night. I then decided that watching bugs bunny and daffy duck made more sense. Woolsey was trying g to explain why pulling a persons fingernails out with pliers is torture but water boarding isn’t. I think listening to Woolsey and the rest of the apologists probably qualifies as torture also
@D58826: when it’s legitimate torture, the body has a way of shutting that down.
I don’t think they’re actually promoting Warren as a candidate. They’re using Warren as proxy for a set of economic priorities to influence the debate in the Democratic Party, because without another top-tier candidate Clinton’s campaign will define the policy priorities and message going forward. That’s true. That will happen.
It’s a perfectly fine tactic as far as I’m concerned. They want to push it Left and they have a limited amount of time to do that and no candidate. I think it’s helpful because I haven’t heard anything from Clinton other than the “opportunity and job growth” message and that’s what Democrats ran on in 2014. The problem with it is it’s exactly what Republicans run on, except Republicans promise no one has to pay for any of it.
Ready for Hillary are doing exactly the same thing as Move.on.
Lanny Davis should listen to a John Kasich speech in Ohio.
Equality of opportunity, job growth and a safety net for the poor. That’s the moderate Republican position. What Davis wrote there is identical.
Democrats need their own economic agenda. Republicans are now completely occupying the “equality of opportunity” space. They weren’t in 2010 or 2012, but they figured it out.
@Lurking Canadian: Well Woolsey said that as long as you weren’t hurt then it wasn’t torture. Channeling John Yoo and the torture memos.
@Sherparick: On #3: I’m convinced Obama would have signed a PPACA with a Public Option, a $2T stimulus, Mortgage Cramdown, etc., etc., if bill with them had passed the Congress. The President isn’t the problem, at least if he/she is a Democrat. The problem is the Congress.
The way to get more progressive/liberal legislation on the books is to get more progressive/liberal legislators. That means electing more Democrats of every stripe to expand the majority and give room for members to move left.
Warren is right not to run. She’s much more valuable in the Senate.
We need to remember that progressive/liberal is still a small minority in the American political space. A truly liberal president is a long way off and we should recognize that. Incremental progress is in the legislature the way to go, IMO.
On Webb, you’re right that he’s done some good things in the Senate (pushed to rationalize relations with SE Asia, the new GI Bill, criminal justice reform). He’s also, in the past, strongly opposed women having larger role in the military, and while he has made lots of economic fairness arguments, he also has pushed coal and pushed against things like affirmative action that help minorities in cities. He has a rural populism about him that will piss off (rightly unless he’s careful and sincere and can explain things better) African Americans.
His “Scots-Irish built America!!11” shtick got to be old and kinda divisive in northern Virginia, IMO.
He seemingly did nothing to fundraise or prepare for his political future after defeating Allen for the Senate. It’s not clear to me that he has the stomach to build a system to push for his agenda if he here were to actually win the nomination (which I can’t see at this point).
I think he might, might, be good in a Cabinet-like post, if he buys into the program and is kept on a short leash. He can fight for what he believes in, but he needs to bring others along to get things done. It’s not clear how well he could do that as President.
Hillary? Dunno. Yeah, I’ll vote for her if she wins the nomination. Maybe after that she’d feel she has the freedom to stop trying to impress opponents that she’s a VSP and wouldn’t be such a hawk. Maybe she’d be more socially progressive and so forth. Maybe.
People usually don’t change unless they have to though. Also, “where you stand depends on where you sit” – if she mainly associates with the same people she always has, then she’s not going to be for Mortgage Cramdown etc., etc. Maybe nobody will because it’s a fool’s errand. Dunno.
I am concerned that the conventional wisdom about how she would decimate any Republican opponent is wrong. I don’t like “inevitable” and I don’t think people in Iowa and New Hampshire do either – especially this far out. If she stumbles, or decides next year after dragging it out for months that she won’t run, or drops out in 2016, then what??
Guess there’s more than one way to shoot your friend in the face:
@D58826: So the ones that died were tortured? I would say freezing to death would count as torture, but that’s just me.
He certainly is a jerk and a verbal bully.
My impression was that he was basically accusing the Senate Intelligence committee of deliberately excluding testimony people with tons of evidence that torture worked.
@Starfish: Let me counter that notion.
The version of ACA that was eventually passed was a legislative creation not a creation of the Obama administration. Obama deserves credit for pushing the process not for writing a bill.
I do not think that it would have been impossible or even unlikely for a legislative process to have completed a complex health care reform during a Hillary Clinton administration.
@JPL: When one is a high minded patriot protecting the nation from all manners of evil doers, one doesn’t worry about petty details. (yes snark)
Prayers to those in Northern California. Hope you can stay safe.
Doesn’t that sound straight out of The Manchurian Candidate, though?!
@Baud: It probably angers “progressives” too.
@SiubhanDuinne: That’s exactly what I thought when I read it. Though I suspect Davis is the dead-eyed, malevolent automaton in this scenario rather than the candidate herself.
Part of what’s wrong with Hillary is the people around Hillary. Very few epitomize this as well as Lanny Davis.
It’s the week for torture report releases, apparently.
And, from a report of nearly a year ago, a reminder that revulsion is not always within the domain of those outside the spook factory. (Not an attempt to in any way be an apologist for the CIA or its activities.)
I’m a huge fan of Warren’s work inside and outside the Senate. I am certain that many of the people under the impression that 1) she is running in 2016 and 2) she can win a general election in 2016 engage in regular, unintentionally ironic mockery of the insularity of various wingnuts.
@rikyrah: Why is he still given opportunities to speak out loud outside his own home?
My impression is that he is desperately trying to preserve the credibility of the Republican party no matter what kind of distortions of logic, morality, and truth are required.
@shortstop: Because, unless Vince Foster was actually murdered, there’s not much Clinton can do about Davis.
@MomSense: I really don’t get why people watch this ridiculous show. Get a job, go for a run, read a book, volunteer — anything other than putting pure verbal poison in your body first thing in the morning.
Hmmm – so assuming this is a true statement (and I think Dean is pretty factually solid usually) the percentage of folks who think the SC is just peachy is… lessee here 100 minus 73 …carry the one…
My oh my, that number is truly magical.
At this point, I’d say the hypothetical Warren campaign has the depth and breadth of support as the actual Howard Dean campaign of 2004.
@Belafon: Well, that’s an intriguing idea. She’s already taking the heat for offing people; might as well get some benefit from it.
@shortstop: That wasn’t aimed at you, MomSense — just endorsing your idea of finding something less embarrassing to do.
I don’t either. I don’t watch tv “news”.
@MomSense: My PBS station has no yoga. But iTunes has a number of FREE yoga channels and so does my Roku. Getting rid of cable March of this year was one of the best things I’ve ever done. Not watching news each day for the hours I used to has got to added years to my life.
@Face: California is a lot of state. I’m in SoCal and we have gotten less than an inch of rain. This next storm also will likely drop less than an inch of rain.
What we need is snowpack in the Sierras, and sadly, this kind of storm – warm, tropical – doesn’t do that.
@GxB: Now I’m scared.
Mike in dc
We need a Gen X president. I am concerned that my entire generation will get skipped over and there will be this seamless transition between the last late Boomer and the first early Millenial.
Credibility is a gift given to judges by the public. They give it and they can take it away. The current (sitting) judges inherited it, they didn’t earn it and they can’t rely on the accumulated institutional credibility of the court forever.
If they choose to piss it away that’s on them, those individuals. It’ll be hard to get it back. We have too many moochers and looters at high levels. They’re spending something they didn’t earn.
@Mike in dc:
Not sure if that would be a good idea or not. Our generation has far too many conservative/libertarian loons…
As a fellow GenXer, I disagree. Vehemently. Our generation is a pack of purblind idiots, one that values slogans over action, image over reality, sensation over judgement. When tested, our best has been mediocre. We are the most manifestly unqualified generation to rule anything with more societal impact than a grocery store.
We put Reagan into office and have voted solid Republican ever since, largely based on the politics of a character from a shitty TV show. A character who, in real life, wasn’t even a conservative, but rather making fun of them.
The first millenial president cannot come soon enough for my tastes. They’ll do well.
@NotMax: Well at least there is one positive about Chaney running his mouth all over the TV. On the very unlikely chance that he is a defendant in a war crimes trial, the prosecutors will not have to prove the ‘what did he know and when did he know it’ question., In a fair world he just put his head in the noose. But its not a fair world.
My thought too. His role is a lobbyist.
Joe watching for me is limited to a couple times a week. I check out what they are going on about for a few minutes to see if there are any sensible guests on that day when I may watch a little longer.
Drought really hasn’t been an issue up here in Seattle. We’ve had a Pineapple Express come through here, which has resulted in heavy rains and really warm temperatures – some places got into the mid-60s this week, and that’s a record. It’s 54 right now, and it’s not even 8:00 am yet.
I’m less negative about that prospect than you are. I wouldn’t say that we need a Gen-X president, but I don’t think that one would be self-evidently bad.
Even by the most generous of boundaries for the cohort, the vast majority of X-ers wouldn’t have been of voting age to put Reagan into office.
Having said all that, I mistrust a lot of generational theory because I find it quite arbitrary. It seems to be used mostly for demonizing or chest-thumping.
@Betty Cracker: Shades of the Manchurian Candidate. Doesn’t Lanny Davis know those words (or ones similar) carry a certain connotation for many of us that contradicts the intent.
Mike in dc
Uh, no. We didn’t put Reagan into office. The oldest Gen Xers were born in 1965.
Considering our age cohort in 2008, 27 to 43, we likely put Obama in office with a congressional majority in both houses.
I don’t think we’re any less industrious or responsible than the boomers. We’ve just never been behind the wheel because the boomers wouldn’t move over.
@CONGRATULATIONS!: Well, the presence of hordes of Gen Xers on this very site underscores the uselessness of writing off a group of millions based on an arbitrary bookend of years. And by some demographers’ reckoning, President Obama is a Gen Xer since he was born after 1960. (Some say 1960 is the cut-off, others 1964.)
The only thing worse than Gen Xers is Boomers. And the only thing worse than Boomers is Millennials. And the only thing worse than Millennials is Gen Xers.
and also a successful politician. Good luck on that search.
@Betty Cracker: Generational definitions should be reasonably consistent, but for some reason they aren’t (even when the cohort isn’t changing much). A generation should be the average female reproductive time. Say 20 years or so in the post-war period. So 1946 – 1965 should be the Boomers. (It is likely longer now.) I’m roughly Obama’s age. I think it’s clear he (and I) are Boomers.
@PurpleGirl: Lanny is one of the slimiest, coldest, most cynical and unprincipled people in public life today. I don’t know why any public figure not already accused of crimes against humanity would ever want to be associated with him.
@shortstop: Agreed, I know that many here who do watch it must have a reason, but for me, It is beyond comprehension what any sane, intelligent person could gain by seeing this babbling moron spouting his daily rendition of lies and iodicies
@grandpa john: Truly one of the mysteries of the age. It’s like dipping your naughty bits in a vat of acid and then wondering why they’re on fire.
@Ben Cisco: Uhh… not for nothin’, but… how do you know that?
@different-church-lady: Guess that makes my group the “old coots” since I was born in the 30’s ( 37 to be exact)
Tree With Water
Warren can best fight the good fight in the senate. God bless her, today she took a page from Ted Kennedy, who remarked prior to the vote that gutted bankruptcy protections for Ma & Pa Kettle, “Who do we represent here [the senate]? She was far more articulate, of course, even more than Kennedy a decade ago. She’s positioned to do far more damage to the enemy right now where she is, and that’s all that counts.
Even discounting a Warren candidacy, I think Hillary prospects to gain the nomination are dim. #1, she’s the wrong person to lead the party at this point in its mortal struggle with the republican party (GHW Bush considers Bill another son, for crissakes), and people know it even if they don’t want to admit it. And #2, she’s a lousy campaigner.
How so? My husband (a dastardly cradle-snatcher, obvs!) is about Obama’s age too, and it seems to me he and his cohort shouldn’t be shoe-horned in with people who actually had a chance to be hippies and experienced the Kennedy assassination and Vietnam War as their political coming of age events. But I guess therein lies the folly of generational stereotyping.
Bob In Portland
After the torture report how many here still think the U.S. isn’t fascist? Hasn’t gotten worse? Show of hands.
Well, of course someone born in 1960 is not the same as someone born in 1956, but they are all part of the ~ 20 year wide cohort of people who were part of a population boom after WWII.
I wore bell-bottoms and had paisley-print puffy sleeved shirts in grade school. I had a genuine Merriam-Webster paperback dictionary that was printed with graffiti on the cover. I remember wondering if I was going to be drafted because the Vietnam war seemingly was never going to end. Even though I didn’t attend Woodstock (too young, among other things), I do share many, many memories with Boomers. I remember going to watch the Moon walk at a neighbor’s house.
But it’s not mathematics, of course. People will have different views, of course, but the 20 year bracket seems to me to make the most sense when talking about generations.
@Betty Cracker: isn’t that the line from Manchurian Candidate?
@I’mNotSureWhoIWantToBeYet: Too late to be seen, but I say there’s a real break between the two halfs of the Baby Boomers, just because of the size of that cohort. Those of us on the back end of that pig-in-the-python grew up being told “You should’ve been here a few years ago” — before the schools were overcrowded past capacity, the environment eroded, the goodwill of the adults exhausted. We were too young for Woodstock, much less the Summer of Love, but we got to attend Altamont. Of course, we also avoided being sent to Vietnam, which was another sharp differentation; by the time a boy born in 1955 or later was old enough for a draft card, public sentiment had pretty well turned against the war & protesting it was a lot less socially risky.